are Divine but not one That which is Divine in God becomes Natural when given to men Some in the World are without Christ therefore some in the World are without the Light of Christ I noted these at the Time and Place aforesaid in Short-Hand and I know not that I have wronged thee if thou judgest otherwise I desirâ— to hear from thee suddainly W. S. THE UNIVERSALITY OF THE LIGHT ASSERTED AND THE Notions and Opinions OF JEREMIAH IVES DETECTED c. Opinion THe same Body that is now the Habitation of the Soul and Spirit shall rise again and enter with the Soul united into Everlasting Joy or Torment Answer The Doctrine of the Resurrection of the Just and Unjust in the Day of Judgment and their future Estate in Joy or Torment was alwayes asserted by us in Scorn called Quakers though wickedly insinuated and divulged to the contrary by our Opposers And this whole Nation may be convinced by our Conscientious Suffering for bearing witness to the Truth we have received that we believe a Future Estate Else why should we suffer to keep our Consciences void of Offence If we were of the number of those then might we say Let 's eat and drink and take our fill of Pleasure in the things of this World to day for to morrow we shall dye And let us run down with the Stream of the Times we live in and be Men Pleasers and so preserve our selves from Suffering But our Conversation hath not been on this manner but quite the contrary and impartial People may see that it is great Ignorance if not Wickedness and Emnity imour Enemies both Professors Prophane to endeavour to father and fasten such a Doctrine upon us But we pitty their Blindness knowing that it is the Work of that old Adversary the Devil which rules in the Hearts of the Children of Disobedience on purpose to make us odious and hateful to the People who have a gross Traditional Faith concerning the Resurrection as of other Truths of the Gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ Now the Mystery of Godliness is great and the Mystery of Iniquity is great also and they are reveal'd to the Babes and Sucklings and hid from the Wise and Prudent of this World the Wit and Cunning of men finds it not out neither can the Wisdom of the World comprehend it the Busie High-minded Puffed up Contentious Corinthians would be prying into things not made known to them by the Spirit of the Lord but Paul the aged dealt wisely and gravely with them giving them many sharp Reproofs for their high Conceits telling them 1 Cor. 4.3 18. He could not speak to them as unto Spiritual Men but as unto Carnal and could not minister Strong Meat to them but Milk having Envyings Strife and Divisions among them he concludes they were Carnal and walkt as men wise and puft up in their own conceits But saith he to them If any among you seem to be wise in this World let him be a Fool that he may be wise for the Wisdom of this World is Foolishness with God c. 1 Cor. 3. And in most of his Epistle he reprehends them for their Failings and Errors Now some among them broached this Error also That there was no Resurrection of the Dead Many weighty Arguments he urges to convince them of their gross Ignorance 1 Cor. 15. If there be no Resurrection of the Dead then is not Christ risen so on to the 19th verse where he also saith If in this Life only we have Hope we are of all men most miserable c. For since by Man came Death so by Man came also the Resurrection In Adam all dye in Christ shall all be made alive he that reads let him understand Some also among them might after they were convinc'd by his Arguments enquire how the Dead were raised and with what Body come they forth To such he saith O Fool that which thou sowest is not quickened except it dye and that which thou sowest thou sowest not that Body that shall be c. to the end of the Chapter And now if the curious Enquirers of this Age would know further and presume above what is written out of the Sense and Knowledge of the Holy Spirit which moved Holy Men to write they are to be answered with Judgment and sharp Reproof for the puffed up Spirit and busie Mind which aspires to know much before-hand leads men to neglect the doing that good which they already know therefore it was very well said by Geo. Whitchead when the Dispute was like to continue about the Resurrection That it would be more profitable and necessary for People to hear a Discourse that may tend to inform them how they may be fitted and prepared to be one of that number which shall rise in the Resurrection to enjoy Everlasting Felicity and to avoid the contrary and not at present to contend about the Sameness of the Body that shall rise and what Matter and Form it shall have and how and when the Soul and Body shall meet and be united and how they shall be entertained in Heaven c. About these things the vain Thoughts and Imaginations of men are many and some that count themselves able to teach others are as ignorant of the Resurrection as Nicodemus was of the New Birth And this busie Mind and unsubjected Spirit which learns not at the Feet of Jesus has great Conceits and Imaginations what God hath done of old in Generations past and what he is able to do Thousands of Years to come but is ignorant and unacquainted with his Power at present believes little of his Power and Ability in their own Particulars in this present time wherein they are to know him by his Mighty Power to raise them out of the Grave of Sin and give them Victory over it and so to witness their part in the first Resurrection This is of more absolute Necessity then to enquire what manner of Bodies God will raise in the Last Day and how he will provide and entertain the Soul and Body in Heaven when time shall be no more They that know God do believe in him and can trust him and do resign up their Bodies Souls and Spirits into his Hand in this World and in that which is to come also and have no doubt but he will provide well for them if they persevere in well doing to the end Opinion It may be in the great Day of Judgment God may receive the Heathen to Glory but it is more then they know whether he will or no For those People that have not the Scriptures among them in common have no Knowledge of their future Estate Answ What God will do with the Heathen it seems thou knowest not but art in thy Thoughts or may bees about it They that walk in the Light in which God dwells know more of his Mind However thou mayst read in the Holy Scriptures of God's Love and
THE UNIVERSALITY OF THE LIGHT Which shines in Darkness ASSERTED AND THE Notions Opinions OF JEREMIAH IVES Divulged the 24th of the 2d Moneth 1674. in the Market-Place at Crayden in the County of Surrey DETECTED c. Written and Published for the Information of all that desire to know the Way of Truth and to walk in it By William Shewen He taketh the Wise in their own Craftiness and the Counsel of the froward is carried head-long They meet with Darkness in the day time and grope in the Noon-day as in the Night Job 5â—…13 14. This is the Condemnation that Light is come into the World and men love darkness rather because their deeds are evil John 3.19 Printed in the Year 1674. TO THE READER FRIEND I Being present and noting these Opinions of Jeremiah Ives after some time I sent the following Letter with a Copy of them inclosed to him which I understand he received with his own Hand and having received no Line from him to signifie whether he at the second View or more mature Deliberation will disown any of them I have now discharged my Mind in a brief Answer to them not being Conscious in my self that I have wronged him in a Word I am not doubtful as thou readest in an Even Impartial Spirit and in a Mind void of Prejudice but that thou mayst reap Profit hereby So commending thee to the Grace Love and Light of God which is able to teach thee to profit and preserve thee from Evil present and to come in a Measure of it I remain thy Friend W. S. Jeremiah Ives I Here-with send thee some of thy Notions or Opinions My End in so doing is two-fold First That thou mayst take a second view of thy Notions and Conceits and see whether I have noted them right before I communicate them further And Secondly If thou standst by them I have something in my Mind to commit to Paper concerning them in order to shew thee if possible thy Darkness and ignorance in the Things of God though thou hast been a long Professor and pretended Minister of them And indeed thou didst behave thy self more like a cunning Sophister with craâ—ty Sleights to gain upon the Ignorant at that time then like a Grave Conscientious Disputer for the Principles of the Christian Religion And whether thou leanest or trustest more upon thy Acquired Cunning and Artificial Reasoning in thy Disputes and other thy pretended Services for God and the Good of People then upon the immediate Assistance Guidance and Motion of the Spirit of God I do desire thee seriously to consider and leave it to his Witness in thy own Conscience to answer The Things of God are very weighty and ought to be spoaken of and medled with by a bridled Tongue and clean Hands and in a weighty and serious Spirit which is seasoned with Grace Wisdom and enabled to divide the Word aright which Word is compared to Milk Strong Meat Bread a Hammer Fire Sword c. Now he that professeth himself a Minister of Christ Jesus and is not seasoned and endued with thiâ— Wisdom to divide this Word aright deceives himself and others Consider thy Standing and Work thy latter Day approacheth lest the Sun set upon thee or the Spirit of God leave striving with thee and thy Candle be put out and thy Day be turned into Darkness over thee This is a Warning in Love to thee from one who believes the Principles of the true Christian Religion professed by these in Scorn call'd Quahers and loves all that walks in them and lives according to them which Principle and People I have known thee to be an Opposer of this 15 or 16. Years but the God whom they Fear and Serve hath hitherto blasted thy Endeavours together with all the rest of the Champions of Mystery Babylon and hath caused the Knowledge of his precious Truth to encrease and hath established many Thousands in it and furnished them with Strength and Wisdom to contend for that one Faith which was once delivered to the Saints which Faith purifies the Heart and gives Victory over the World which Faith and the Work of it is much wanting among all the Sects in Christendom though they have made to themselves many Faiths every one contending for the Work of their own Hands and walking in the Light of their own Sparks in the End lie down in Sorrow out of which Estate the Lord hath redeemed many and his Hand is stretched out still to redeem and deliver more which is also the earnest Desire and Expectation of him who desires the Temporal and Eternal Good and Welfare of all Mankind and remains thy Friend Southwark the 5th of the 3d Moneth 1674. William Shewen Some of the Opinions of Jeremiah Ives divulged in the Market-Place at Crayden in the County of Surrey the 24th of the 2d Moneth 1674. THe same-same-Body that is now the Habitation of the Soul and Spirit shall rise again and enter with the Soul united into everlasting Joy or Torment It may be in the great Day of Judgment God may receive the Heathen to Glory but it is more then they know whether he will or no For those People that have not the Scriptures among them in common have no Knowledge of their future Estate All the Light in men could never teach them discover or reveal unto them That Christ was born of a Virgin and that he suffered c. It may tell them that Blasphemy and Drunkenness c. is Sin but could never tell that God would save them I do deny that every man is lighted with the Light of Christ for the Scripture saith That many are in Darkness and stumble because there is no Light in them That the Light which lighteth every man is not the Light of Christ yet it is a Divine Light There is a Natural Light in all men which may shew them Sin and this Natural Light is Divine for every Gift of God is perfect therefore Divine Men may sin out all Sense of Sin and become Darkness and have no Light in them The Sun may shine and some men may shut their Eyes and will not see it and some are blind and cannot see it Are they therefore enlightned by it So likewise c. I will stick by the present Translation of the New Testament which was effected by Twenty or Thirty Learned Wise Men by the King's Authority and if I understood Greek never so well it would be unmannerly to contradict them The Light that is come into the World was designed of God to enlighten every man but Thousands are not enlightened by it George Whitehead and William Gibson are not enlightened with the Light of Christ though I grant that there is a Light in every man which is Divine yet not the Light of Christ ☞ I deny that the Light of God is one with the Light of Christ the Father and Son are Relatives but not one the Light of the Father Son and Spirit
all men the true Christians were taught by it others walked despightfully to the Spirit of Grace and turned from it into Wâ—ntonness Also A Manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal One Talent at least is given to improve though Thousands answer not the End of the Lord who is the Giver thereof Life and Death Good and Evil is set before all men and the Lord is present and ready with his Wisdom and Power to enable men to chuse Life and Good and to eschew Death and Evil. But how men are said to be Darkness and to walk in it notwithstanding the True Light shines in them is a Mystery to the cunning Wit of men which cannot comprehend the Possibility thereof and are ready to cry out If all are lighted with the Light of Christ which is in it self a saving Light then why are not all men saved If all have a measure of this Light in them how can any be said to be Darkness And if this Light in it self be sufficient to lead to the true Teacher what need hath Christ to send forth a Ministry and what 's the End of your Preaching and Printing of Books c. if all men have a Light sufficient in them This hath been the Cry of the Spirit of this World which savours not the Things of God Now such Ministers which Christ sent and sends forth were and are sent to open the Eyes of the Gentiles and to turn their Minds from the Darkness to the Light and from the Power of Satan to the Power of God that they might receive Forgiveness of Sin and Inheritance among the Saints c. They had Eyes before though shut and Light before though their Minds were not turned to it nor exercised by it but by the Darkness and by the Power of Satan and so walking in this Darkness they stumbled and Mankind being in this State joyned to the Power of Satan and to Darkness is called Darkness notwithstanding the Light shines in it as the holy Scriptures fully evidence Now this Darkness and Power of Satan was and is inward within People and this Light and Power of God was also inward within People For it would be very absurd and ridiculous to imagine that Christ's Ministers were sent to turn the Minds of People from outward Darkness to an outward Light the Darkness and Power of Satan was spiritual and inward and the Light and Power of God was spiritual and inward and the pure Mind they were to stir up was within People Now though they walked in Darkness and sat in the Region and Shadow of Death and saw no Light by Reason that the Eye was shut and the Mind turned another Way though it was nigh they did not see it so as to have the Benefit of it or to believe in it because the Clouds of Error Ignorance and Unbelief were so thick and gross in them that though the light shined so far in them as to convince and reprove them for Evil yet they could not comprehend it or believe in it as a Light in that State but rather accounted Light Darkness and Darkness Light as many in this Age do Now when this Light shined out of Darkness and dispersed the Clouds and gross Fogs that were before their Understandings by means of Christ's Ministry then begun the Work of Regeneration then they became as new-born Babes desiring the sincere Milk of the Word then the Work of Christ's Ministers was as Fathers to cherish them and feed them with Food convenient and as it were lead them by the Hand till they grew strong Men c. And to effect this they travelled among them from City to City and from one Country to another to confirm them and establish them in the Light Power and holy Truth or Gospel of Christ Jesus which their Minds were turned to And this is the Work and End of Christ's Ministry now which we are made Partakers of And this is the End we have in writing printing and preaching for though all have one Talent at least yet Exhortation is needed that Improvement may be made according to the Ability given and that Men receive the Grace and Love that â—s tendered and make use of the Means given and appointed of God to lead to Salvation and this was and is the Work of the Ministry even to perswade Men to be reconciled to God who is Light and dwells in the Light and is not far from every one as a Light ready to lead them out of the Paths of Darkness though till their Minds are turned from the Darkness to which they are joyned and in which they walk and dwell they cannot see him Opinion That the Light which lighteth every man is not the Light of Christ yet it is a Divine Light This is a Piece of Ignorance and Contradiction not of the east Magnitude It is common with the Builders of Mystery Babylon grosly to err and mistake and be confused in their Language and the clamorous Woman pulls down her House with her own hands What! Grant that every man is lighted with a Divine Light but not with the Light of Christ How many sorts of Divine Light are there Is not the Light of Christ Divine What thou mayst form as a cunning Artificer by way of Argument to prove this Nice Carnal Corrupt Distinction will prove like a Castle built in the Air or vain Imagination and fall upon the Head of him that builds it For the whole Current of the Scriptures comprehends things under two Heads Good and Evil Light and Darkness Life and Death Heavenly and Earthly Spiritual and Natural Old and New Holy and Polluted Divine Nature Sinful and Corrupt Nature c. Now Divine Nature is the same with Divine Light Holy Heavenly Pure and Spiritual And it was by this Nature the Gentiles did those things contained in the Law c. they did them not by the corrupt Nature for that leads all that are in it further into Transgression and Breach of all the Law of God and as that is given way unto razeth out and demolisheth the Law in the Heart And how J. I. can set forth a Divine Holy Heavenly Spiritual Light wherewith men are lighted and shew that this Divine Light is not the Light of Christ I judge is a Mystery to himself unknown for I cannot find neither in the Scripture nor among Holy Men a President for the like Doctrine so for ought I know he may be called the Father of this Vain Conceit or Notion Opinion There is a Natural Light in all men which may shew them Sin and this Natural Light is Divine for every Gift of God is perfect therefore Divine Ans This Conceit or Opinion differs not much from the former only in this thou acknowledgest that this Light wherewith every man is lighted is able to shew or convince men that Sin is Sin now what that is that makes manifest and convinceth of Sin the Scriptures
reproved yet the Light cometh to such and follows such and finds them out as it did Adam in the beginning And none can be said to hate that which they have not nor never had no Sense nor Knowledge of nor be justly reprehended for not loving it and not coming to it and not bringing their Deeds to it if they have not Ability or are not in a Capacity so to do Therefore thy comparing Natural things with Spiritual will not hold true every way nor thy Conclusions therefrom Some indeed are said to stop their Ears and to close their Eyes and to stumble and grope like blind men for the Wall yet God is not the Author of this neither did he make Mankind in this Estate but this is come upon him through his own Transgression and Disobedience to the Law which is Light which was before Books or an outward Law was written which while he obeyed and walked in he enjoyed the Presence of God who gave it and lived in the Light of his Countenance but when he transgressed he dyed as to that Enjoyment though be lieved and remained in the Body as a man and here began Mankind to hate the Light and to walk in Darkness and to endeavour to hide himself for Fear and to cover his own Nakedness with the Works of his own Pands Now was laid the Foundation of all Self-Will Self Works Self Righteousness Self-knowledge and Imagination from this Foundation Christ the Lamb of God was slain he that reads let him understand And Mankind in this Estate is accounted Dead â—eaf Blind and Naked because that Life Eye Ear and Covering be hath is of his own ordering and making and he is truly Dead whill be thinks he Lives â—eaf and Blind while he thinks he Hears and Sees and Naked nâ—twithstanding his Invented Artificial Coverings And Darkness he may truly be called notwithstanding there is a Light that shineth in him in this Dead Dark and Blind Estate wherewith also he is lighted in some sheastre and by it may see his lost Estate And Mankind in Transgression may hear the Voice of God now as Adam did in the beginning but how men do hear the Voice of God while Shiners and how they are afraid of his Appearance or Presence and how Light shines in Darkness though Darkness comprehends it not and how men are lighted with a saving Light of Christ and yet walk in Darkness and are not saved by it and how the Word is as Milk and Honey and Bread to ome and as a Hammer Fire and Sword to others is a Mystery to the carnal Mind though plain to the Children of Light and evidently declared in the Holy Scriptures For the same Light which is the Condemnation of the World whom it lighteth which it hates and believes not in is the Salvation of those that believe leve and walk in it Now that which leads men to do the Will of Christ gives them the Knowledge of his Doctrine and reveals his Secrets to them but the Wiâ—e and Prudent in the selfish â—ensual Widem which believes not in the Light of Christ wherewith every man is lighted remains ignorant thereof Opinion I will stick by the present Translation of the New Testament which was effected by Twenty or Thirty Learned Wise Men by the King's Authority and if I understood Greek never so well it would be unmannerly to contradict them Answ Surely if thou hadst been so mannerly and so full of Reverence and Respect to Learned Wise Men who were countenanced with the National Authority when thou first tookest up thy Religion or turned Baptist and thereby contradicted the Opinions and Meanings of more then Twenty or Thirty Wise Learned Men who in their Wisdoms had setled Church-Government and Doctrine as they thought according to the Scriptures thou wouldst never have adventured to question their Work though thou knewest better things I judge thou hadst more sincerity Zeal and Knowledge then and less of this kind of Mannerliness when thou didst judge they erred in their Meanings put upon the Scriptures translated though they were reputed Learned and Wise And why may not the Translators commit an Error also and be short in giving every Word its sull Signification according to the Mind of the Spirit from whence it came though the King's Authority be with them Doth the Knowledge of Naturel Tongues make men Insallible May not a Peter and John who know not a Letter know the Mind of the Spirit in the Scriptures or understand them better then the Scribes Pharisees and Hypoerites Indeed Jeremiah I must tell thee This Mannerliness would have kept thee out of thy Religion and will now if thou follow it lead thee to out-live it or to differ nothing from those thou comest out from but in Name and Profession only Opinion The Light that is come into the World was designed of God to enlighten every man but Thousands are not enlightened by it Answ It s something that thou grantest so much Truth viz. That God designed all men a Benefit by the Light though Thousands receive it not 'T is true the Love of God is Universal and his Call is to all men every where to Repent and his Gospel which Paul was a Minister of Coll. 1.23 was and is preached in every Creature under Heaven his Sun shines and his Rain falls upon the Just and Unjust But many though they hear his Call Repent not and though the Gospel be sounded in their Ear obey it not and the Wicked may become like a Parched Heath that knows not when Good comes though the Dew of Heaven descend upon it and the Seed of the Kingdom be sown in it yet it grows not to Perfection The Seed is sown in Bad Ground as well as in Good and Christ is as truly the Light of the World as he is the Light of the Saints who are chosen out of the World the Difference is in its Operation it reproves and condemns the World because its Deeds are Evil and it justifies and consolates the Saints who believe in it and walk in it c. Now how it can be said that every man is lighted or enlightened with the Light of Christ notwithstanding they remain Darkness seems a Riddle and Paradox to the Learned and Unlearned Professors and Prophane And if that Scripture which saith The Light shined in the Darkness and the Darkness comprchended it not cannot be understood I cannot speak plainer to this Spirit that stumbles at the Light For if Light shineth in a People who were and are Darkness how can it be said that that People are not enlightened by it though they love the Darkness rather and so chuse Death and Darkness and refuse Life and Light And how can it be said That Mankind makes a Choice except he hath some Knowledge of both So which he joyneth to and walketh in that he becomes a Child of whether of Darkness or Light And the Condemnation of those who hate the Light and