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A82528 A friendly debate on a weighty subject: or, a conference by writing betwixt Mr Samuel Eaton and Mr John Knowles concerning the divinity of Iesus Christ: for the beating out, and further clearing up of truth. Eaton, Samuel, 1596?-1665.; Knowles, John, fl. 1646-1668. 1650 (1650) Wing E121; Thomason E609_16; ESTC R205964 49,997 66

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In those days shall Iudah be saved and Ierusalem shall dwell safely and this is the name wherewith she shall be called Iehovah our righteousness Also the City Ierusalem is called Iehovah Ezek. 48.35 And the name of the City from that day shall be Iehovah is there Yea the Altar which Moses erected when the Amalekites were discomfited is called Iehovah Nissi The Lord my Hunter Exodus 17.15 I know you will not say that the Church is the most High God much less the Altar or City Ierusalem yet you may see that the Incommunicable name Iehovah is communicated to them How your inference concerning Christ may be justified is yet not evident but remains dubious not onely for the commonness of the name but also because this Iehovah is said to be raised by another v. 5. THE Scripture which occupies the next place hath been already insisted on wherefore that which follows being Iohn 8.58 John 8.58 Before Abraham was I am is now to be spoken to Answ The words rightly understood will no ways countenance your inference from them In the words we have a Grammaticall Figure which they call Enallage whereby one time is put for another as here the present tense for the praeter Am for Was Before Abraham was I was and so they note out and signifie one or both of the things that follow 1. That Iesus Christ was instituted and revealed before Abraham had a being If we take the word I to signifie the Whole of Christ there is a necessity that the words be thus understood for Christ according to the flesh was not in being before Abraham was That he was revealed before Abraham was is clear and evident for the seed of the woman at the beginning was made known to Adam That he was ordained before Abraham had a being is from Scripture not a little manifest as 1 Pet. 1.20 And by the same reason he may here be said to be before Abraham was as he is elsewhere called the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world Rev. 13.8 2. That he had a reall being and existence before Abraham was this cannot be asserted of whole Christ and therefore according to this Exposition the Figure Synecdoche whereby the whole is put for a part must be understood in the Text. It is granted by all that contend for and by some that deny the Divinity of Jesus Christ that he had a being and existence before Abraham was but what this being was is the onely doubt Some affirm that Jesus Christ before he was born of the Virgin Mary had no other existence but in the Godhead and was onely to be considered as the Son eternally begotten of the Father Others assert that this conceit is neither Scriptural nor Rational but unsound and absurd and that he had a created being before Abraham was yea that he was the first creature and so Lord of all That this Controversie may be decided I shall lay down three Positions 1. That whole Christ doth consist of flesh and spirit Position 1 Every man is constituted of two parts flesh and spirit 2 Cor. 7.1 Iam. 2.26 and so is Christ as in Rom. 1.3 4. where the Apostle speaking of whole Christ mentions nothing but flesh and spirit According to the flesh that is the body of Christ he was of the seed of David But after the spirit of holiness he was the Son of God He that can finde another part besides those two or any nature besides what belongs to his flesh and spirit may have liberty to bring forth for ought I know what he may find out Position 2 That Christ before he took upon him the seed of Abraham did exist onely according to the spirit He had no being but a spiritual one But this is no controversall thing being on all hands concluded for truth The onely disagreement is whether this spirit of holiness after which Christ is the Son of God doth signifie the Divine Nature and Godhead or else the soul which was created or formed and did exist distinct from the flesh or body of Christ Wherefore the third Position is Position 3 That the Spirit of Christ according to which he was the Son of God is a Creature To support this take these Reasons 1. Because to affirm that the Spirit of Christ did exist distinct from his body and may be spoken of as a person is not in the least absurd For the spirit or soul of a man may exist distinct from the body and is spoken of as a person What are those spirits of just men made perfect Heb. 12.23 but the souls of good men glorified in Heaven whose bodies were in the graves In Luke 23.43 saith Christ to the Thief This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise Thou that is thy soul or spirit shall be with me that is with my spirit in Paradise 2. Because the titles which most properly belong to Christ before he took flesh do hold him forth to be a Creature first he is called the Son of God Luke 1.35 Now this title informs us of his Inferiority to God his Existency of God and his Superiority over all things 1. It holds forth his Inferiority to God God is his Father but a son is inferiour to a father and by the Law is bound to honour and obey him Wherefore Christ confesseth that his Father was greater then he Iohn 14.28 My Father is greater then I. And professeth that he did honour his Father Iohn 8.49 Iesus answered I have not a Devil but I honour my Father and ye do dishonour me That this might be put past all doubt he is called the Son of the Highest Luke 1.32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Highest and the Lord God shall give unto him the Throne of his Father David And therefore not the Highest for there can be but one Highest and he is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ 2. This title Son of God proclaims his Existency on God A Son is of a Father and therefore the being of a Father is before the being of a Son God as he is a Creator is the Father of all Eph. 4.6 And all men as creatures are Gods off-spring Acts 17.28 Angels and Men who are principall creatures are called the Sons of God Job 38.7 Luke 3 38. They that hold the Deity of Christ do affirm that the Son was of the Father by an Eternall Generation But what this Generation is they cannot declare and therefore call it ineffable Yet M. Perkins will tell us that the Son was generated of the Father in that the Divine Essence was communicated to him But who can tell what this Him was to whom this Essence was communicated And who can affirm that this Essence was communicated to this Him and yet assert and evidence that he was never without it And that he was God and yet distinct from the Essence for it is said that the Essence was communicated to Him Where Scripture
A friendly DEBATE On a WEIGHTY SUBJECT OR A Conference by Writing Betwixt Mr SAMVEL EATON AND Mr JOHN KNOWLES Concerning the DIVINITY OF IESUS CHRIST For the beating out and further clearing up of TRUTH LONDON Printed by T. N. for GYLES CALVERT at the black spread-Eagle at the West-end of Pauls MDCL presented Truths nor thine own Eyes to be too much weakned by over much use of the clouded spectacles of Ancient termes and opinions but in regard there must be some Oneness and Analogy between the Recipient and the thing received to make up an intellectuall and perfect conjunction as the Metaphysicks say be exhorted in the fervent Love of the Love-working Spirit to understand what you receive and to receive what you convincingly understand let not ancient Authority darken Truths glory though newly discovered nor new Errors shake Truth setled though anciently confirmed but as the Apostle saith in the Spirit of the Father Try all things The Treatise designes the confirmation of the Negative part of this Logicall Question Whether Jesus Christ the Son of the Most High God be that God the nature thereof is of high concernment and cals for the greatest the gravest consideration 'T is the exhortation of the Spirit Heb. 3.1 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Heb. 3.1 Holy Brethren consider the word is weighty Beloved Christians the Son requires the understanding of a sublimated spirit sunk down into the very Center of the Soul expunged from the Reliques of the dregs of vain delusions Professors of all sorts examine principles already taken in try it with your own hands especially this heer presented it is matter of moment and that for these Arguments 1. In regard of the Excellency of this Knowledg Phil. 3.8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so Paul cals it Phil. 3.8 't is the knowledg of him that lay in the womb of Eternity that received that revealed the bosom-secrets of glory 1 Ioh. 1.18 'T is the knowledg of our friend that is crowned King in the Assembly of Heaven and contains the treasures of wisdom and knowledge Psal 2.6 Col. 2.3 2. In regard of the Mysterie of this Knowledge Every Truth is a secret and that in regard of its proximity that I may not say Identity to the highest Then that sure more eminently which the Spirit of God intentionally signes so The Sons name is a secret as that Angels Judg. 13.18 Phelij a secret a wonderfull name a wonderfull name indeed would it be were his name in the number thereof made known And Col. 4.3 Eph. 3.3 Col. 2.2 Col. 4.3 Ephes 3.3 Col. 2.2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The disquisition and search of things remote separate and transcendent is a work for Spirits generated in the Divine Love and tinctur'd with the Divine Nature which enobles them above all acts seemingly glorious in the worlds view especially 3. In regard of the Utility thereof The Knowledge of the Son is very profitable by the right understanding whereof many prophecies concerning the Church lye either chained up in darkness and undiscovered or appear so mighty that they are by most too too rashly censur'd condemned 'T is no less then eternall life in all the parts thereof John 17.3 1 John 5.20 Nay John 17.3 1 John 5.20 John 14.9 't is to know the Being of all knowledg and the center of every Being John 14.9 Friends sit down no longer in deadness in darkness but consider these things in your selves once and again and then judg according to the spirit of Oneness and divine Revelation that works in you See more by your own Eyes that the Babel of Traducall Doctrines authoriz'd only by man may fail and fall To beleeve this or that to be without a spirituall light and intelligent perswasion is but an implicit faith and comes under the Roman condemnation He knows best that hath truth written upon his own soul But when on the one hand I weigh the wantonness of these dayes in lifting up the heel against many Truths pressing near and the facility on the other hand to entertain without knowledge and understanding it prompts me to premeditate the various effects this ensuing Treatise will produce Some Luxuriant and heady spirits will peradventure draw the curtains before they know 't is night and sit down in their retired their forced darkness Others whose ears stands always open and Athenian-like are wandring are waiting for some new thing wil too easily welcom it as an Angel of Light and lodg it with them without so much as quaering What are you But are afterwards as soon drawn out of it as dallied to it Yet is it my hopes that some Valiant one in spirituall Israel whose sword is on his thigh Cant. 3.7 8. will enter the List with her to the discovery of her strength or weakness and endeavour the settlement of this point in Question Happily this may be the time that the Truth of these Mysteries of the Father and of Christ shall be manifested who sees not the multitude of divisions haesitations acceptations concerning God Christ and the Spirit The smoke of the pit ascends very high me thinks it proclaims the glory of the Lord to be rising for the breaking of the cloud to the ushering in of the day But why are such things brought forth to trouble the people 'T is not I can assure thee blazon'd with singularity or effected publicity but that that Doctrine formerly received might have better foundations then the Philosophers Jus Rationis or occulta qualitas to palliate their ignorance that things might come to a particular scrutiny and that the seemingly fair face of many mentall buildings may be searched and their body examin'd to the very Basis Let no man be offended at the style thereof plainness of language may be no hinderance to her entertainment she may happily make better provision in that kinde when humane Eloquence is made the Watchword in the Lords Army and yet if any shall wonder why it adventures abroad in such a cloathing give me leave to Apologize a little for her Garments and tell you that she rose in haste and intended onely a visitation to a private friend upon a more then earnest invitation but by the way meeting with some adventitious Salutants she was unwillingly arrested and now prest to hazard her self upon the doubtfull multitude Lastly for I am writing an Epistle if any Man from its pretence to Light and claim to Reason especially the Gentleman for whom it was intended and to whom 't is committed shall daigne to descend the Sands with it Let him in Love and in the Spirit know That reviling is no reason and that he addes nothing to Truth that belcheth forth bitterness from a distemper'd spirit Let him teach himself in the Doctrine of Luther Non convitiis sed argumentis errantis conscientia est erigenda And if yet any man shall indiscreetly and scornfully handle his weapons the return of the Author I