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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A09101	A discouerie of I. Nicols minister, misreported a Iesuite, latelye recanted in the Tower of London Wherin besides the declaration of the man, is contayned a ful answere to his recantation, with a confutation of his slaunders, and proofe of the contraries, in the Pope, cardinals, clergie, students, and priuate men of Rome. There is also added a reproofe of an oratiuon and sermon, falsely presented by the sayd Nicols to be made in Rome, and presented to the Pope in his consistorye. Wherto is annexed a late information from Rome touchng [sic] the aute[n]tical copie of Nicols recantation.	Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610.	1581 (1581)	STC 19402; ESTC S120349	83,096	196

fingers toes and eares are not bodies or deuisions of one bodye but partes and ornamentes of the same because they receaue all life norishment spirite from one soule soe diuers orders of religious men and women not differing in faithe but in manner of life in the Catholique Church are partes and ornamētes of the same church according to the propheci of her before made The Queen stood at thy right hand in golden apparel Psal. 45. enuironed with varieties These varieties are the varieties of states degrées professions orders in the Catholique Church which al agréeing in one fountaine of faith and taking norishment life and spirite from that vnitie of faithe as diuers members from one soule do not impaire but bewtifie the vnitie of that body which is the Catholique church and therfore are not to be called sectes as the Lutherans Caluinistes and Puritanes are which differ in matter of beléefe and doctrine For all that hath béene saide therfore or euer can be heerafter I doe not sée why our ●aith and Church is not proued true and ●ur aduersaries false by thes fower markes of Catholicke antiquitie succession and vnitie And if we once gaine this we néede noe longer to dispute of contr●uersies Hauinge ended this firste and chéefest matter of the true and false Church I must confesse vnto the reader that I am vnwyllinge to wade anye further with Iohn Nicolls in contention about particuler controuersies Cau●es whye● Nicolls is noe further answered in particuler controuersies Frste for that all the reste which he hath is oulde broken ware patchte vppe with péeces of soondrye bookes ether aunswered or reiected longe agoe which notwithstandinge is made woorse by his vnorderlye insertinge of it héere without iuste occation and especiallye by his adioynders vnto it of vnséemelye raylinge As after he hath vttered the obiections before mentioned agaynst the true marks of the Church he followethe with full mouth for dyuers leaues togeather agaynst Rome alleaginge Mantuan the Po●t and Budeus with Barnarde of Cluni●● without citinge anye place to proue that Rome had vices in it wherefore he con●●udethe and exhorte●he his bre●hren the preistes and other prisoners in the tower to leaue Rome and cleaue to Englande séeinge the Church of England had not soe many hereticks and churchrobbers in it as the Romane Church hath Secondly he rouethe soe wyde from the point of ech matter that he handleth as he séemeth to be ignorante both what we and his owne fellowes holde For aboute miracles and reuelations he laboureth much to proue that false miracles and reuelations are not to be credited which we graunt vnto him without proofe And touchinge Purgatorie and prayer for the dead and inuocation of Saintes he affirmeth them to be late inuentions of Popes and papists wheras his owne companions In his booke against P●rgatorie Pag. 306. 115.316.320 and against articles pag. 39. namly Fulke in his late answers to Doctor Allen and Doctor Bristoe confesseth that all those thrée erroures weare receaued i● the Church aboue 1200. yeares paste that is in the times of Augustine Ierome Ambrose and vppwarde and that those Fathers with other beléeued them also In oppugninge Images he bringeth a great heape of quotatiōs against idols thinketh that sufficiēt Against the Pope he disputeth not but raileth cōncludeth in the end with an impudent lye out of Phillip of Mornay saying That the Pope hath caused men to dispute that he is not simply a man but a partaker of the diuine nature with Christ. A malitious lye againste the Pope Sée the shamelesse foreheade I praye you of men blinded with malice The very wordes of the decretall alleaged are these talking of seperating of a Bishoppe from a certaine Bishoppricke which he held vnlawfully Not man but God doth seperate whom the Bishop of Rome vicegerent in earth Prope Innocētius de transl cap. quanto not simply of a mā but of him which is also true God doth seperate rather by Godes authoritie then mans vppon consideration ether of the necessitie or vtilitie of Churches Thyrdly he hath a propertie ether of ignorance or malice to tyre his answerer by cyting of things which are not to be found albeit they be such for the most parte as we would graunt without citing As for example he alleageth S. Austen li. 2. ca. 20. de consens euang against séeking of Christ in paynted walles but noe such thinge is founde there nor yet occasion of anye lyke matter He alleageth S. Chrisostome hom 30. in Math. repeting the Pharisées words to Christ which albeit it toucheth not the matter yet noe such thinge is to be séene there He citeth William Nubridge li. 2. ca. 15. 25. for S. Thomas of Canterburie his wordes to the Bishoppe of Menze against Rome A newe kind● of alleaging● doctou●s but noe such matter appeareth in that place nor any mention of the Bishop of menze He citeth Allen Cope dial 1. pag. 18. for false miracles before Images in our Churches but read the place and you shal sée there noe lyke argument handled He alleageth S. Basil mistrusting his owne workes in psa 32. which although it be not against vs yet must I note that noe such thinge is there to be séene I could geue dyuers other examples but this is sufficient to which do you add that he nameth almost twentie authores without citinge any place and many things without naming any author As for example where he vrgeth his fellow prisoners the priestes that came from Rome with this greate authoritie in latine and after englished One sayethe that whiles the Romishe preistes endeuour as much as they can to preach thinges in shewe agreeable to health of soules then teach they noe few things tending to perpetuall distruction of soules This one that sayeth this is ether Iohn Nicols onely or els some other of lesse credite then himselfe if it be possible to finde a creature of lesse credite And was not this a forcible texte trow you to be recited in latine out of the pulpet and to be translated in english and to be vrged in that audiēce for the stirring of hatred againste those learned and vertuous priestes Fowrthly it is a world to sée what his demeanour is in the places rightlye alleaged Nicols conclusio●s for first of nothing he wil inferr any thing and commonly his consequēt hath noe coherence or affinitie with his antecedēt I haue geuen some examples before as because Iobe sayeth that olde men vnderstand not alwayes iudgemēt therefore antiquitie is no good marke of the true Church Because Christ sayed to his desciples little flocke therefore the lesser congregations amongeste Christians haue alwaies the better fayth in religion I coulde shew you hundredes of these illations through out his booke Secondly if his wit serue him not to draw some false consequente from the place then audacitie supplieth to corrupt it by translation whereof besides that which hath bene

Popes chappel were there is a notable vanitie for that they were onlye two séely singing men hired seruantes of the Colledge to teache the studentes to sing at such time as they wayted not at the Popes chappel That there were other straungers present is noe lesse vanitie for that they were but ordinarie seruantes of the house one the manciple and thother the master of the chappel in the colledge which bothe are citizens of Rome and yet not strangers Thus you sée what importante stuffe this felowe bringeth to praise him selfe withal But whatsoeuer he braggeth or lyeth of him selfe yet maye you gesse what a sufficient preacher he is by that that his felow studentes vsed commōly to recreate them selues with his sermons which he would at their appointment vtter extempore Iohn Nicols stoole doctryne from the top of a stoole and namely those sermons which he had preached before in Englande in time of his ministrie repeatinge them with all actions and gestures which he had vsed before He would tell also by name how he had flattered this or that man present at his sermon Which properties made him so cōtemptible and rediculous in al mens iudgmentes as they would not haue imploied him among all other to preache in earnest before anye graue auditorie albeit his learning had bene sufficient to performe it But nowe because we talke of learninge some man parhaps may saye that Ihon Nicols séemeth to haue his part in that espciallye in the tongues for that in his epistle dedicatorye to sir Owen Hoptone he alleagethe one sentence in gréeke and another in hebrew out of the byble whiche argueth that he hathe skill in bothe To whiche I aunswere that this is also a vaunte of vanitie and a méere fantastical florishe of folye which Iohn Nicols and his fauorours thought good to vse for the casting of a miste before some mens eyes and for more probabilitie of that which with full mouth was geuen out of his excéedinge great knowledg and facilitie in these tongues But I know and can auouch the cōtrary for I am priuie to his defect not only of wit and discretion but also of knowledge in these tonges whereof he vaunteth and if I were not yet could I easely make coniecture both of the one and the other by these two sentences which he putteth downe for shewe of great● knowledge For towchinge the first which is discretion marke the circumstances of the matter Iohn Nicolls discretion He had made in that epistle a long impertinent request that Papistes would leaue their errours and imbrace the truth for performance whereof he biddeth them neuer to forget two sentences the one out of Dauid Psal. 34. He that loueth life and desireth to see good daies let him keepe his tongue from euill and his lippes from speaking deceipt The other of S. Paul 1. Cor. 6. You are bought with a great price glorifie therefore God in your body and in your spirite which are of God What pertayne these two sentences to the matter which he handleth or why should thes be kept more in memorye by the Papists thē other sentēses of the scripture and much more whye must these sentenses be alleaged in strāg tongues the one in Gréeke and the other in Hebrewe especiallye to that man whose greate busines may hardlye permitt him to vnderstande ether of them and perhappes was ouermuch troubled with the latine before but this is Iohn Nicols discretion to haue no con●ideration ether of man or matter Now for the seconde which is his skill it discrieth it selfe in this one litle sentence which he hath put doune in Hebrew Iohn Nicolls skil in hebre● which besides the false ortographie in diuers words he hath so mangled and peruerted in wryting it out as ther is no sence at all lefte in the same For where as the wordes in the Hebrewe texte doe stande thus Psal. 34. ver 13.14 What man will haue life and loueth dayes to see good keepe thy tongue from euill and thy lippes from speakinge decepte He hath soe corrupted it as it standethe thus● Dayes louinge lyues willinge man what good to see and thy lippes from euil thy tongue keepe decepte from speaking Is it likelie thinke you that this Doctour hath any great skill in the tongue which coulde not write out two lines without so many grosse and absurd errors But these are the florishes wherewith the eares of the simple people are fedd instéed of better learning Hetherto as you see Iohn Nicols laboreth to gett him selfe some creditt of learning for his preferment Now shall you sée what shift he maketh to procure and gaine some opiniō of honesty which he feareth to be the more difficult point and therfore pleadeth more earnestly for the same especiallie that men shoulde thinck this his last cōuersiō to be trew sincere hartie and zelous and not spotted at all with hypocrisie or dissimulation The which albeit he should meane as he speaketh yet al mē wil not straight way beléeue him therein for that th● reward of a knowen liar is not to be credited when he telleth a tru●● 〈…〉 less● will they truste that which he ●●●eth of his vndoubted perseuerāce vnto the e●● for if the Apostle say truly ●ac 1 that ●●●●o ●ble harted man is vnconstante in ●●l his wayes The is it also likelie to be true that a double or triple tonged man after so many recantations will not be verie certaine in all his promises Why his former protestations should haue more likelyhood of sincere meaning then this How vnlikely that Iohn Nicolles ●ealeth plainly I haue geuen some reasons in another place séeing they were voluntarie made in libertie without hope of reward But why this renegation should be more credited then the former I sée no reason at all except onely because it is the last and so wil remayne vntill he make another But he taketh away all suspition of dissimulation by askinge vs a certaine vnāswerable qnestion How can I sayeth he be a Protestant outwardly and a Papist in hart with a minde to be saued This question I say were hard to answere were it not that he answereth it himselfe in his owne booke a litle before where talking of his preachinge in Papistrie he vttereth these wordes Thus I did wilfully fight against Gods worde albeit my conscience cryed within me day and night that this is not the ●ighte way c. These wordes I say doe answer the dout for if he cold dissēble again●● his conscience then why may he not also now if he could speake one thing and thinke an other then what shall let him to doe the same now if you respecte his wordes they were then more vehement bitter and reprochfull against the protestantes then they are nowe against vs if you consider his meaning he saythe it was dissembled I thinke it was as he spake but howsoeuer it was neyther wordes nor meaning had certaintie thē and muche

The true Churche is visible as hath bene saide that is that no man can be saued excepte he repaire vnto h●● enter into her heare her obeye her and the like Cyp. li. de simpli Ire ep 1. ad Dā Aug. li. 4. de bap● ca. 1. they doe deduce I saye by infallible consequence that this Church or Congregation must be visible to mans eyes Otherwise howe shall we repayre vnto her whom we cannot sée how can we complaine vnto her Math. 18. as Scripture biddeth vs whye shall we be damne●●or disobeying her as Christ threatneth vs 1. Cor. 15. How shall we receaue the Sacramentes and true inter●retation of Scripture from her if she be inuisible Act. 20. Howe dyd S. Paul persecute the true Churche of Christ Aug in psa 30. 47. 44. li 2. ●ō Pet. cap. 32. tract 1. 2. in ep ad Io. Orig. ho. 30 in math● Chris. ho 4 in ca● 6. Esa. How doth he say that God hath put Bishops and Pastors t● gouerne it if it be inuisible The holye Fathers of the primatiue Churche haue laboured much in this pointe against heretiques whoe alwayes had this shifte to say that the true Church was inuisible and therfore their obscure and new vpstarte congregations might be it Wherof S. Austen writeth at large against the Donatistes● But the saide Fathers ouerthrew this refuge of hereticks by many places of scripture As where the Church is promised to be a hil vpon the toppe of all other hilles Esa. 2. Deu. 2. Mich. 4. Psal. 18. Math 5. 1. Tim. 3. Math. 18. Gen. 22. Aug. tract 19. in epist. Ioan. Ier. in haec ōnia loca a tabernacle of God placed in the soone a citie inobscurable builte vpon a mountayne a piller of trueth erected for all men to repayre vnto and a benediction for al nations to participate of as wel Iewe and Gentile as others By which and like places of scripture the holy Fathers do proue that the true Church of Christ is not inuisible but soe visible and subiect to al mens sightes as al may know her repayre vnto her enter into her heare her obay her and follow her that will excepte heretickes only as S. Austen sayeth Aug. li. de vnit cont Pe●il ca. 14. in Psal. 32. Whoe doe blind them selues and will not see soe greate a hill and if they do see her yet they runne from her according to the spalme They saw me and yet ranne out from me Fowrthly the Catholicks doe deduce of the premisses that The true visible Church cannot erre if this trew visible Church of Christ haue soe greate priuiledges from him as to be his spouse and his owne body as is sayed before also if no man can be saued but by repayringe to her and obaying her direction then is it necessarie that Christ shoulde according to his promise soe gouerne her by his holy spirite Au in Psal. 147. de vnit eccle ca. 13 20. Math. 28. and directe her vnto the end by continuall assistance as she may neuer be deceaued in doctrine of faith or bring her childrē into errour For otherwise she mighte become of the spouse of Christ a stromp●t and an apos●ata as the Donatistes sayed she was in their time and as Luther sayed she was in his time S. Austē detesteth all su●h as say soe Conc. 2. in Psal. 101. 1. Tim. 3. and soe Christ his Kingdome should perish and the worke of his passion become frustrate also otherwise whye is she called by the Apostle a piller of trueth for vs to repayre vnto in all doubtes and why are al men commaunded vnder payne of damnation to heare and obey her Math. 18. if she may erre and deceaue those that take directiō from her Leo ep 31. Math. 3. ●3 Moreouer if this visible Church might erre and soe perishe how then shall the barne floore contayninge corne and chaffe The corne ●●●de Ephe. 4. Aug. li 22. de ciui ca. 15. 18. contayninge wheat and cockle vnderstoode literallye of this visible Church remayne vnto y● end of the world as Christ affermeth that they sha●l How doth S. Paul say t●at this visible Church shal cōtin●w vnder visible pastours and teachers vntill we méete all in vnitie of faith c. Finally reade S. Austen only of this absurditie That Church saithe he which was the Church of all Nations Aug. in ●sa● 101. cōcio 2. vide Chris. ho. 4. inca 6 Esa. ● Orig ho. 3. in mat is she not now Is she perished they saye soe that are not in her O impudent speech is she not because thou arte not in her nay see least thou be not in her for saying so For she shall be though thou be not Fifthly Catholiques doe deduce out of the premisses that séeing the knowledge finding out of this true Church The necessitie of infallible mar●es to knowe the Churche is soe necessarie to all men as hath bene sayd and as noe man can be saued without it it is certaine that Christ hath left ●ome such manifest sure and infallible markes to knowe this true Church and Congregation from all other congregations in the world as no man maye be deceaued therin excepte he will wilfully blinde him selfe This is agréeable bothe to the mercy and iustice of Christ whoe forsawe in his prouidence the doutes that would rise about this matter For which cause also S. Aus●en sayth Aug. in psal 32. That the holy Prophetes spake more plainer of this Church thē of christ him selfe Foreseeing that more controuersies should rise about the Church then about Christ c. Of these markes therfore we are nowe to entreate so farre as Nicols geueth vs occasion Which thing because it is of al other of most importance for the true Church once found Why here●iques are soe angerie with the markes of the Churche all other controuersies are ended the heretique striuethe moste in this pointe to auoide the true markes which descrye his estate and to forge other markes which are noe markes at all nor any waye to be found in his church but yet may be chalenged by him and not soe euedently improued by the contrarie parte But for the examination bothe of his our markes Three properties of true markes it is to be noted that true markes of the Church should haue these thrée cōditions or properties at the least First that the marke should be better knowen and easier to be found out then the thing marked by it For otherwise it could be no good marke being more or no lesse obscure then the thing it selfe which it ought to make manifest vnto vs. Secondly that the marke be proper only to the thing marked and not comon to many other for thē it should no more make manifest the thing we séeke for then any other Thirdly that the marke be suche as our forefathers vsed in the Primatiue Church to proue their

proofe of his extraordinarie vocation must néedes be a theef a wolfe as Christe noteth and as all heretiques haue bene seeking to intrud them selues by extraordinarie wayes and meanes starting vp in particuler countries and making them selues gouerners without anye lawfull calling The fowerth marke of the true church is vnitie consent of doctrine 4 Vnitie and consente For as the deuill is authore of dissention soe is God authore of vnitie and concord 1 Cor. 14. Math. 12. Vide. Aug. Li. 18. de tri Li. 52. 41. the true Church being the bodye of Christ ruled by his holy spirite which is alwaies one and the same must néedes kepe one faith and one doctrine And heretiques beinge gouerned by the contrary spirit must néedes change their opinions as the malice of that spirite changeth For which cause the holy Fathers haue alwayes vsed this as an inuincible argument against heretiques For that the Churche hath indured soe manye ages in great varietie of times and infinite men haue written in diuers countries in diuers tongues and vpon diuers occations And yet in al thes writings they haue agréed in all pointes of faith soe manye hundred yeares together which is a signe of one holy spirite gouerninge their doeinges from time to time Contrariewise heretiques albeit they began but in some one countrie yet could they neuer agrée any space of time in one opinion but would range from one thinge to another vntil by dissention they were all extinguished again Soe Ireneus writethe of the first heretique Simon Magus Iren. li. 1. ca. 21. cont her whose heresie was soone deuided into the sectes of Menandrins Bisilidians and Saturnians Li. de bap cap. 6. Soe S. Austen writeth of the Donatistes whose first heresie was quickly deuided into many secttes Epi. li. 1. cō her to 3. Soe Epiphanius testifieth of the Marcionistes of whom in smal time sproung the Lucianistes the Appellians and Seuerians The very same doth IIreneus write of the Ualentinians Irē li. 1. ca. 5. Aug. de her ca. 6. And S. Austen of the Manachies and Epiphanius of the Montanistes Epi. li. 2. to 1 her 80. and of the Massilians And Rufinus of the Arriās whoe almoste euery yeare changed their religion as S. Hillarie also witnesseth Hil. li. 1. ad Const. Eua. li. 3 .4 Finally of the Eutichians and other heresies of the east Euagrius and Damascen beare witnes Dam. li. de 100. heret And of our age it is euident also how many sectes haue begun since Luther Fredericus Staphilus counsailer to the Emporoure Staph. li. de concor Lu. shewethe how Luthers schollers were quickly deuided into thrée sectes that is into Anabaptistes Confessionistes and Sacramentaries and they againe sub-deuided into other sectes insomuche that in his time they were 34. but nowe are manie more Soe that by this marke it is easie to iudge whiche is the true Churche and which is the false Now then let vs examine what Ihon Nicols obiecteth against these markes of the Church which although if be soe impertynente and ridyculous as it is not worthe a confutation yet for the readers instructiō in their maner of dealing I will saye a worde or two about it Against the first marke Nicols obiections againste the ●irst marke which is Catholique fol. 25. he obiectethe out of Exodus 23. Ne insist ito vestigys potētiorum ad mala Follow not the stepes of stronger then thy selfe to doe yuel which he translateth thus Thou shalt not followe a multitude to doe yuell Which is not according to the wordes put downe And albeit it be according to the wordes in the very text yet is his fault double First to put down one thing in latine and an other in English This tricke he vseth in many other places and secondly to deuise latine wordes him selfe which are not in the text But to graun● this and al the rest which he bringeth against wicked multitudes as of Turkes Iewes Infidels heretiques Math. 7. 24 Luc. 12. which often times are more then the good also that Christe his flock was smal in the beginning often oppressed after by persecuton Iereni 18. Esa. 53. cet What is this to the purpose we talke not of al multitudes but o● Christiās nor of Christianitie in the beginning but after it was spread ouer the world nor of vices in manners but of error in faith In res●●●t therfore of Infidels other wicked of the world Christians are but few very mu●h fewer at the beginning in respect of the nomber which they are now for manners both now then the more parte parhapes licencious but this is nothing to our question For notwithstanding al this we say Catholique and priuate that after Christian faith was once spread ouer the world by the Apostles their successors and was receaued in vnitie by the followers therof and therby named Catholique whatsoeuer priuat Congregation began afterward among the said Christians or shal doe to the worldes ende teaching different doctrine from this first receaued general doctrine A sure marke to knowe an heretical Congregation and disagréeing to the vniversall multitude of Christianitie as Arrius Pelagius and Berengarius did in their times and Luther in his this priuate Congregaton I saye is conuicted to be heretical by this first marke of Catholique The Churche tried by Scripture Nether is that refuge of heretiques anye thinge worthe when they saye the Church muste be tryed by the Scripture for we graunte that further forthe then they doe and therfore wee bringe all oure markes out of the Scryptures as by examyninge of them maye appeare Against the seconde marke which is Antiquitie Nicols obiections agaynste Antiquitie Fol. 22. Nicols obiecteth out of Iob 32. Old men doe not alwaies vnderstand iudgemente which is not worth the answering for albeit priuate old men may lacke wit yet Christes old spouse which is the Church can not Secondly he alleageth out of Philip of Mornay Phillippe of Mornay translated by feild that the Church is compared to a shippe on the sea to a citie and to a mans body all which decay by old age and néede reparation and therefore the Church in like manner To which I answere that by as good consequente I mighte argue Io. 15. Apoc. 5. Christ is compared to a vyne and therfore néeded to be lopte also to a Lion and therfore néeded to be fedd with raw flesh which is absurde For similitudes must not be lyke in al things especiallye in the matter whereof we talke where comparison is made in perfections and not in defectes For the Church is compared to a shippe on the sea Math. 8.15 in that as a shippe is tossed by many waues and yet not drowned soe the Church by many persecutiōs is not ouerwhelmed Also to a citie and humane body for that as they haue

lacke of successiō for they might wel haue denied his ordinarie vocation for y● want séeinge they had an expresse lawe from God Nu. 1.4.8 that none should be préest but of the Tribe of Leuie wherof Christ was not but of Iuda But the Iews sinn was in reiecting Christs extraordinary vocatiō which was prophecied to thē by Moises before that it should be as his was Deut. 18. and which Christ did now proue by many euident supernatural miracles and yet they would not receue him This Christ him selfe testifieth sayinge Ioh. 15. If I had not done the works among them which noe other man hath done they had no sinne And againe Ioh. 14. Beleeue me for my workes sake And againe If I doe not the works of my father that is supernatural works beleeue me not but if I doe them then if you wil not beleue me beleue my works Ioh. 10. Againe Luc. 7. when Iohn Baptist did send to Christ to know whether he was the true Messias or noe he wrought miracles only in their sight and bidd them tell Iohn Baptist what they had séene and harde signifying that that was a sufficient testimonye Extraordinari vocation not to be admitted without miracles and without that he were not to be beléeued The like he hathe shewed in all those that euer he sente besides him selfe to reforme or instructe the people by extraordinarie vocation without succession as in Moyses Aron and all the Prophetes the Apostels also and diuers other after them as Anthonie Hillarion Benedict Dominicke Francis and others which being noe pastors by successiō wer sent extraordinarily for the help of the Church but their vocatiō was declared by euident miracles And soe also must ●ur new pastors and prelates shew their extraordinarie vocation by euident miracles séeing they can not plead ordinare succession or Canonical ordination excepte they will challenge more vnto them selues then the very sonne of God whoe required not to be admitted as I haue shewed but only vppon that testimonye concurringe together with the Scriptures which spake of him Nether is that drye shifte of Philipe of Mornay or rather childishe euasion to be admitted where he saythe that it is a sufficient miracle for the protestantes that one poore friar Luther hath made so great an alteration in the world A straung miracle whereby the protestāts proue their vocation in soe few yeares and so many thowsand men haue forsakē their old religion vpon the onely blaste of his mouth This I say is very ridiculous and worthy of such a deuine as he was For by this argument Arrius Donatus Manicheus Pelagius aboue al other Mahomet wrought verye greate miracles and proued their vocations substantiallye because they drew from the trueth so many thowsand men to followe their errours Nay rather it is an euident argument that Luther was a wicked deceauer preaching plausible doctrine to itching eares 2. Tim. 4. For you shall neuer finde since their was any orderly forme of a Church and eccl●siasticall gouernement in the same that ether such as were sent extraordinarily to reforme it had soe greate rushinge of people vnto them for that their doctrine was vnpleasant in reprehendinge mens vices or that they withdrew those few which folowed them from the obedience of their former pastours Note this o●seruation ruling them by right of succession as Luther did though those former pastours wer neuer so wicked in life Nay more Christ himselfe which came to plant a new law and new pastours also and to remoue from there places the scribes and pharises yet for the litle time they had to endure which was vntil after the new testament was sealed with his bloode Math. 8. Marc. 1. Luc. 5. he taught obedience to the saide Pharasies as maye appeare by sending the leapers vnto them and by charginge all men to doe as they commaunded Math. 23. And this is greatly to be noted as a very plaine detection of our aduersaries Fifthely Nicols obiectethe that the Iewes bragged of succession from their father Abraham and yet Christ saith they were of the deuill soe diuers that came to their bishoprickes by succession Ihon. 8. were her●tiques after as Nestorius and Samosate●us But all this as the other is quite from the matter For we graunte as I saide before that those which succéede in good mens places may alter and become wicked and playe also the heretiques or apostatas But that religion which hath come downe by succession from the beginning as ours hath done can not be false nor that religion which raiseth it selfe against the same without succession and the other markes before recited as al heresies haue done cannot be true Lastly he obiecteth that we by this succession of the sea of Rome doe tye our religion to one place and prouince Which is not so but it is his his felowes gross error in mistakinge vs. For albeit we hould the Bishop of Rome as successor of S. Péeter to be the only supreme pastor of al christianitie yet is it not necessarie that he shoulde be in Rome or any way tyed vnto that citie but i● that whol citie were distroyed desolate and waste and all Europe besides in the possession of our enemies as it was in ould times of persecuting Emperors yet mighte ther a man be chosen to that dignitie and bishopricke in Aegipte Asia or India and should be asmuch Bishop of Rome and haue as great authoritie as hee that sittethe there nowe and hys faythe be called the Romane faith were h●e neuer soe poore or meane a prieste of anye other countrye In his bad aunswere t● Howlet Wherfore we doe not make oure Catholique religion locall or of one prouince as besides Ihon Nicols the peart master of penbrooke Haull very vndocterly affirmeth I might heere add a pleasant obiection of Ihon Nicols which he vrgeth in great earnest against succession that is that the Turke at this daye possesseth fower Patriarkcal sées by succession and that Antichrist in the ende of the world shal cō● to his tirannicall authoritie by succession cet Which is as true as that his religion commeth from Christ and his Apostles by succession What righte the Turke hathe to the fower Patriarchall sées Antechrist to the rule of the world by succession the same hath his religion and her prelates to the gouernmente of Christian people And thus I haue aunswered all that they obiect against the first thrée markes of the true church For against that fowerth which is vnitie they say nothing nor can they bring any excuse of their owne discord but only that we haue sectes among vs also as Benedictins Varietie of religious orders noe sectes in the Cotholique Church Dominicans Franciscans other orders of religion Which is as absurd an illation as you haue in your bodye fingers toes eares like partes therfore you haue distincte bodyes and are a monster For as