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A10699 A Catholicke conference betvveene Syr Tady Mac. Mareall a popish priest of VVaterforde, and Patricke Plaine a young student in Trinity Colledge by Dublin in Ireland VVherein is deliuered the certayne maner of execution that was vsed vpon a popish bishop, and a popish priest, that for seueral matters of treason were executed at Dublin the first of February, now last past. 16ll. Strange to be related, credible to be beleeued, and pleasant to bee perused. By Barnabe Rych, Gent. seruant to the Kinges most excellent Maiestie. Rich, Barnabe, 1540?-1617. 1612 (1612) STC 20981; ESTC S115901 41,203 61

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of Christ to seeke there saluation in the bloude of a Traytor a seditious wretch that was onely canonyzed by the Pope for his Trayterous demeanure and disobedience to his lawfull prynce I tell you sir Tady you could not hauesought out a fitter fragment whereby to make manyfest the adultrous religion of your whorish church of Rome then this that you haue brought of that traitor Thomas Becket Ta. I thought asmuch before that you would take exceptions to him because he with stood the prynce for the Catholike cause but I hope you wil take no exceptyons to those inuocations that haue beene dedicated to our blessed Lady whereof ther are no small store one amongst the rest O Mariagloriosa c. O Mary glorious in dainties delitious prepare thou glorye for vs. Againe Mariamater Domini c. O Mary the Mother of our Lord the sonne of the eternall God helpe vs all that flie for helpe vnto thee Againe Maria gratia c. O Mary the mother of grace the mother of mercy defend thou vs from our ghostly enemies receiue vs at the houre of death Yet againe Veni Regina gentium c. come Queene of the Gentiles extinguish the fiery heate of our sinnes blot out whatsoeuer is a misse and cause vs to leade an innocent life These and many other that might be named all of them prouing that the inuocation of Saints hath beene both approued and had in vse in the church of Rome and I hope you haue heard of our Ladies Psalter that was printed at Paris almost 100. yeares since where the whole number of the 150 Psalmes are turned from Dominus to Domina quite topsie turuie from our Lord to our Lady Pa. I doe not so much wonder at that Syr Tady when now in the hottest Sunne shine of the Gospell wee see almost euery day whole Lordships to be sould and but to vphold Ladishippes but to speake reuerently of that blessed Virgin for the fruite of whose wombe all generations doe call her blessed her glorie doth not so much consist in the bearing of Christ as in her stedfast faith and beleeuing in Christ which caused her ioyfully to sing My soule doth magnifie the Lord and my spirit hath reioyced in God my Sauiour And therefore what Papistes doe attribute for honour is plaine blasphemie to that blessed Virgin for Christ being our hope and not our Lady they ascribing to her what shee is not doe thereby dishonour God and doe her no worship at all Howe wicked a thing is it then to thinke that the Saintes doe sometimes plague and punishe vs because wee doe them not that superstitious honour which is their dishonour and not onely our shame but also our sinne Ta. I see the repugnancy of our religion to bee such as there is no hope of reconcilement for what wee acknowledge to bee holy that you say is prophane and those rites and ceremonies which wee doe most indeuoure for deuotions sake in the exercise whereof we do seeke our greatest pietie those you condemne to bee superstitious Idolatrous and blasphemous and that our whole religion is nothing else but sacriledge and a dishonouring of God I will therefore reason no further in these matters that I see will not be holpen but tell mee now in the way of goodfellowship did you euer see a priest say Masse Pa. I will neuer deny it Syr Tady I confesse I haue seene a Masse Ta. Then you haue not liued altogether so irreligiously but that you haue once seene a Masse but tell mee truely howe did you like it Pa. O passing well I neuer sawe a thing that better pleased me but once Ta. And what was that one thing that you say pleased you better Pa. It was a Puppet play that was playd at Dubline but nowe this last summer Ta. Then the sight of a Puppet play was better pleasing to you then the sight of a Masse Pa. When your priest hath put on his masking apparell and hath gotten all his trinkets about him if there were an Irish Bag-piper by that had a deepe Drone to play and entertayne the time whilst the priest were in his Memento and had made an ende of all his dumbe showes what with the musicke of the one and the gestures of the other it woulde passe all the Puppet playes in the world Ta. Nowe I am of the like conceipt of your holy communion that is but a prophanation of the blessed Sacrament and no wayes concordable with Christes institution where you neyther receiue the flesh of Christ nor vse adoration Pa. The flesh of Christ is both eaten in the spirit and adored in the spirit yea the very eating of it is adoring of it sith it is not eaten but by beleeuing for hee that beleeueth not eateth not the flesh of Christ. Ta. As though the flesh of Christ were not inclosed in the forme of bread and corporally eaten with the mouth of man Pa. But doth the infidell or vnbeleeuing man receiue Christ so really as you say if he receiue your sacrament Ta. The denyall of it is the high way to all those heresies that are helde by the Protestants and till they beleeue that what doe they but blaspheme the doctrine of the Catholicke Church Pa. And the misconstruction of Christes words is it that leadeth the papistes to their Idolatry Ta. For our misconstruction take you no thought for we are past all feare of that Pa. And those that are past all feare are commonly past all recouery and he is in most danger of death that in an extreamitie of sicknesse feeleth it least Ta. Our intent is to worship Christ wee haue no meaning to worship the elements of bread and wine as you vntruly report but the blessed body of Christ that is conteyned in those accydents of bread and wine Pa. But speake truly Syr Tady doe you adore the bodie of Christ in the misteries by a spirituall vnderstanding or doe you adore the mysteries themselues Ta. Finding him really and corporally in the sacrament there we worship him where we find him Pa. If your zeale bee such to worship Christ in euery place where you find him why doe you not worship the Priest when he hath beene at masse or any other man that is a member of the Church Ta. Doe you thinke that Christ is no otherwise in the Sacrament then he is in a mortall man Pa. I tell thee he is more truly really and naturally in those men that be his members then he is in the elements that be vsed at his table Ta. O blasphemy blasphemy O horrible and shamelesse heresie is any mortall man transubstantiated into Christ as the elimentes are by power of consecration Pa. The wordes of Saint Paul 2. Corin. 13. Know yee not your selues that Christ is in you except ye be reprobate persons Away now with your transubstantiating the elimentes into Christ the sacrament is no part of the mistycall body of Christ as we are for we are knit vnto