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A69024 A replie to a relation, of the conference between William Laude and Mr. Fisher the Jesuite. By a witnesse of Jesus Christ Burton, Henry, 1578-1648. 1640 (1640) STC 4154; ESTC S104828 423,261 458

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Precious stones metà polles phantasías with her great pompe Visible no question and so visible and sensible too as otherwise we could not know her to be the Great Whore Thus she was shewed first to Iohn in a visible representation by which we also come to know her to be the same Woman when we doe but looke upon her Well visible we all grant her to be What more God hath hitherto preserved her That 's true too For even the wickedest men upon earth and the most Tyrannicall states that they are for a time yea and a long time too preserved in life and doe prosper also they owe it to God But to what end are the wicked preserved Their finall end is destruction to which they are r●served as Peter speaks and Paul too Cain and his Posterity whose Family was a type of Antichrists succession continued and were preserved and grew great for almost two thousand yeares till at last the Flood swept them all away But of Rome you have better hopes doubtlesse For you say God hath preserved her for a better end doubtlesse then they have turned it to Now doubtlesse I will shew you what that better is for which God hath hitherto preserved that Woman which hath been made drunke with the blood of the Saints Whom saith the Apostle the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth and shall destroy with the brightnesse of his coming And Rev. 14.8 Babylon is fallen is fallen that great City because she made all Nations drinke of the wine of the wrath of her fornication And Rev. 18. read the whole Chap●er of Romes ruine Yea and all that partake with Rome shall drinke of the wine of the wrath of God c. Rev. 14 9 10. What the Scripture hath spoken of Romes fall would fill a Volume And is not this the best end that God is pleased to preserve her for when he shal be glorified in executing his justice and judgements upon her for all her abominations and for all the blood of his Saints which she hath shed And in her confusion God will magnifie and exalt the Honour and Kingdome of Iesus Christ which tha● Woman and her Crew had oppressed and the Saints shall tryumph over her Yea saith the Lord Rejoyce over her thou heaven and the holy Apostles and Prophets for God hath avenged you on her And Chap. 19.1 2. I heard saith Iohn a great voyce of much people in heaven that is in the true Church of Christ saying Alleluja salvation and Glory and Honour and Power unto the Lord our God For true and righteous are his Iudgements for he hath judged the great Whore which did corrupt the Earth with her fornication and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand Behold here for what a glorious end the Lord hath preserved that Great Whore But it seemeth you do not mean to make one of that Company either to sing Alleluja or to say Amen when the Lord shal be magnified in that day For you hope doubtlesse for better then all this And so I am perswaded you have the like hopes that God hath preserved and prospered you thus long for no lesse then to be after scores of yeares in a flourishing estate here Canonized for a Saint in heaven for all the blood of the Saints both of their soules and bodies which you have shed Wherein you may have as much hope for your selfe as for old Mother Rome and all one But I leave you to the Righteous Judge who knows how and when to glorify himselfe as well upon the wicked his enemies by destruction as in his own Saints and servants by deliverance Here is the Patience of the Saints L. p. 375. Truly I say the same thing with him Neither may a Protestant that is resolved in Conscience that the profession of the true faith is in the Church of England goe to the Romish Church there and in that manner to serve and worship God P. Thus you jumpe with the Jesuite in this that as he saith 'T is not lawfull for one affected as the Lady was that is for one that is resolved of the truth of the Roman Church to goe to the Church of England there and in that manner to serve and worship God so c. Why will you let the Jesuite run away with it so Do you not know that the Law of England injoynes all Papists under penalty to come to your Church Now doth the Law injoyne that which in it selfe is unlawfull for a man to doe that is otherwise resolved in Conscience Nor is this Law repeald though as before it be a ●leep and grown justly in the sheath Now reconcile these two And what say you then in the Case of Conscience touching your Ceremonies There be some Ceremonies which the Law prescribes to be observed in your Church Now a poore soule is not in Conscience perswaded that he ought to conforme to such Ceremonies of necessity imposed as being ag●inst Christian ●●●erty and Christs Prerogative royall in being sole King over his Church ruling in the Conscience of his People Well you say in this case such a man is bound against his Conscience to observe such Ceremonies And if he be not bound why doe you so severely and terribly punish him for not daring to doe that which is against his Conscience Wheras the Papist otherwise resolved in Conscience you hold not bound to come to your English Church And so of your Protestant for going to the Romish Church being against his Conscience Will you not allow to the Conscience of the first as good Law as you doe to the two last Againe you allow a greater and larger liberty of Conscience to your Protestant to go to the Romish Church then the Jesuite doth to his Romanist to come to your English Church For he allows not his Romanist to come to your English Church that is resolved in Conscience of the truth of the Roman Church that it is a true Church and that the truth is there whereas you doe not allow your Protestant to goe to the Romish Church that is onely resolved in Conscience that the profession of the truth is in the Church of England Now there is great difference between the truth and the profession of the truth So as he that is resoled in Conscience that the truth is onely professed in the Church of England and is not withall resolved that the truth it selfe is in the Church of England may with more liberty goe to the Romish Church then the Romanist may come to yours that is resolved of the truth of and in the Romish Church So as herein also the Jesuite hath the advantage of you Againe if the Jesuite did meane by the truth of the Roman Church the profession of the truth in that Church he therein comes no whit behind you For the Church of Rome as well makes a false profession of the truth as your Prelaticall Church
the malignity and iniquity of the Times shall lay upon me which I am most willing to undergoe for his sake who suffered death that we might live And never had I more imployment to exercise me in any age Mother Iustice what sayst thou Iustice. Deare Mother I hold it both just and necessary that the Reply be published both for the beating down of the insolencie of the Relator and the raysing up of the drooping spirits of Gods people and the setling them in the Truth As for presenting it to the King though I be not against it yet for my part I have engaged my selfe in an Appeale to the High and Right●ous Iudge of all the world for Iustice in this Cause where I shall be sure to have it So as I resolve not to descend to any inferiour Court and there too where the like Cause inferiour to none for pure innocencie and that also upon Appeale so foulely miscarried So as I am altogether taken up in waiting for an Answer from my Righteous Iudge wherein I shall desire my Sister Patience to lend me so much of her vertue as may preserve my Attendance from fainting Mother Mercy what sayst thou Mercy Deare Mother I am ingaged with my Sister Iustice in the same Petition to the throne of Iustice and Mercy that the Righteous Iudge will for his mercy sake to his people give righteous judgement between them and the Relator for else they and the Cause must fall to ground And this course I stick unto not that I dissent from my other Sisters but what your selfe and they shall resolve on in this case my Petition with my Sister Iustice may stand in no small stead when GOD shall be pleased to move the Kings heart to vindicate the Cause of Christ and of his innocent people from the unjust and unmercifull dealing of the Relator against whom I stand a dayly Petitioner with my Sister Iustice not departing from the Court-gate of heaven till we have a full Answer Mother Verity what sayst thou Verity Deare Mother I would willingly accompany my other Sisters to the Court in presenting the Reply to the King but that there I am better known then trusted So as I could never yet have any good successe there Insomuch as I have made my selfe as they have made me altogether a stranger at Court because my naked simplicity can no way suit with the garbe of the Court-fashion which can turn themselvs into all formes but mine which is unchangeable Yet if my Sister Hope could lend me her habit I durst adventure with my Sisters once more within the Court-gates in hope the Courtiers would not reject me as not knowing me to be Verity And should they by my language descry me yet seeing me in Hopes habit they might perhaps turn Truths Disciples in hope of some gaine or preferment so much affiance they have in hopes But alas their hope is nothing a Kin to my Sister Hope for her object are things spirituall and eternall but theirs onely temporall And besides the Relator hath forced his Pack with such a deale of trumpery and painted stuffe gilded over with the glittering Titles of Truth and Peace and Piety and Devotion and the Church and the like that these his faire polished Bristow-stones are preferred by his Court-Disciples before the true and precious Diamonds because presented in their ragged or russet Coat so as these prove not merchantable there where otherwise even Truth it selfe is bought and sold. And therefore it shal be sufficient that my Sisters so many as goe weare me as alwayes as a Jewell in their bosomes so I shall not be taken notice of and the fewer they appeare the better least the Prelate conjure them down for a sort of Factious Spirits as he did those THREE of late in the Starre-Chamber I have said Mother Prayer what sayst thou Prayer Deare Mother and all my deare Sisters here present come I pray you and kneele down here and assist me by joyning in earnest supplication to our GOD that he would direct and lead us in that way which in this businesse may most conduce to the advancement of the Cause of Christ and the honour of the King Prayer O Lord God Almighty Who shall not feare thee thou King of Saints Great and marvelous are thy works just and true are thy wayes Thou art the great King over all the Earth the righteous Iudge of all the world the GOD that hearest Prayer and helpest thy People when they cry unto thee and judgest their cause when thou seest their strength is gone But how long LORD Holy and True when wilt thou arise and have mercy upon Sion Is not now the time the set time come Is it not now a day of rebuke and blasphemy Are not the children brought to the birth and there is none to deliver How long shall thy people cry and thou answerest not How long shall the enemy roare and thou regardest not How long shall he blaspheme thy Name For ever Why pluckest thou not thy right hand out of thy bosome Art not thou our King of old working Salvation in the midst of the Earth Didst not thou divide the Sea for thy People to passe through And art not thou the same GOD of Israel still Or is thine arme shortened that it cannot save And dost thou not remember this how the enemy hath reproached O LORD and blasphemed thy Name And wilt thou deliver the soule of thy Turtle Dove unto the Beast Wilt thou forget the Congregation of thy poore for ever Remember thy Covenant O Lord for we are thy People and thou art our GOD. Other Lords besides thee have had dominion over us but by thee onely will we make mention of thy Name And yet dost thou not see the darke places of the Earth full of the habitations of Cruelty O let not the oppressed returne ashamed The poore and needy cry unto thee they trust in thee they waight for thee that they may praise thy Name Arise therfore O GOD plead thine own Cause remember how the foolish man reproacheth thee daily Forget not the voyce of thine enemies the tumult of those that rise up against thee increaseth continually And now behold here spread before thee a Book of Reproaches and Blaspemies against thy Majesty and against thy Sonne Iesus Christ and against thy Holy Spirit and against thy Holy Word and against thy Holy Ministers and against thy Holy People and against thy Holy and Pure Worship yea and against the Kings Sacred Majesty whom thou hast set over thy People to governe them according to Truth and Equity under whose Patronage and Authority notwithstanding the Relator is bold to shrowd this his Book with all the Blasphemies and Falsities therein contained So as hereby not onely the exterpation of all true Faith and Religion in the Land is threatned but consequently the utter ruine and extermination of the Nation it selfe hastened already fitted as dry fewell for thy wrath by this
Incendiary For behold Lord what havock is made in the Land What superstitions in will-worship what oppression of the Gospell what persecution of thy Ministers what effusion of their innocent blood What dispersion of their poore families What prophanation of thy holy Sabbaths What erection and adoration of Antichristian Altars and Images What suspension of the doctrines of Grace and Salvation What usurped Tyrannicall Domination over thy Ministers and People What imposition of the intollerable yoake of Ceremonies upon their necks bringing them againe under Antichristian bondage whom Christ by the shedding of his precious blood hath made free And what urging and pressing with furious rage reaching up to heaven the observation of all humane Ordinances while yea and whereby thy divine Ordinances are cast out And what wilt thou now doe to thy great Name Thou hast of late by terrible signes from heaven as it were by sound of Trumpet summoned the whole Land threatning to destroy it Surely the provocations are great were not thy Patience greater But thou expectest Repentance with Reformation of all these abominations But little appearance as yet and as little hope while such Books as this are Patronized and Authorized What then Lord Wilt thou therfore proceed to judge the whole Land for these things Surely the whole Land is defiled and so the cause were just But yet remember Lord that thou hast a remnant yet left therein that have not bowed the knee to Baal And consider withall that they are a Faction principally of some few persons as the Prelates that have caused such confusions in the Land And wilt thou destroy the righteous with the wicked farre be that from thee Shall not the Iudge of all the world doe right And even now do not thy People lift up strong cryes unto thee against their Aegyptian Taskemasters and Babylonian Lords And behold Lord what a desperate Leader this Faction hath got even as Iudas was to the Rowt the Primate and Metropolitan of all England those Antichristian Titles he so much vaunteth of who because he walkes in Factious and lawlesse by-wayes therefore hath this Fox for his better defence gotten upon him the Lyons skin pretending the King for the Author and Patron of all his practises Now the Foundations being thus cast down what can the Righteous doe But thou art in the holy Temple Thy Throne is in heaven wherein and whence thou swayest all Scepters here below Thou art the King of Kings and in whose band the Kings heart is as the rivers of waters turning it which way it pleaseth thee And thou hast of late mercifully turned his heart to grant to his Scottish People their ancient Christian liberty both by freeing them from Ceremonies and from the High Commissions thereby cutting shorter at least the Hornes of the Beast in the exercise of Prelaticall Tyranny Now ô Lord be pleased to perfect this thy worke both in Scotland and England and throughout all Christendome by causing the Kings of the Earth that formerly were as hornes to the Beast and had given their power unto him to hate the Whore and strippe her naked and that by throwing down the Hierarchy the maine Pillar of the Antichristian Throne which is advanced above and against the glorious Kingdome and Throne of our Lord Iesus Christ. And for this cause ô Lord open the Kings eyes clearely to see the notorious hypocrisie of his Prelate who under a Colour of Peace and Truth goes about to overthrow all true Peace and Truth in his Kingdome Let him see ô Lord how dangerous it is to maintaine or countenance an Antichristian Faction within his Kingdome Let him see how naked his Kingdome lyes at this time exposed to all the stormes of heaven through so many crying Sins and desperate iniquities which the whole Land groaneth under ready to sinke to the bottome of hell Let him see and be rowsed up to a more watchfull Care and diligent attention upon the grave and waighty affaires of a King and especially not to commit the Care of Religion to Romish Prelates which are no members of the true Church of Iesus Christ. And withall ô Lord quicken the Kings heart with a Coale from thine Altar even with the zeale of the Spirit of Iesus Christ to enter into a present strict examination of the State of Religion as it now stands in his Kingdome And because thou hast in mercy stirred up and strengthened a Servant of thine to discover to the King not onely the great dishonour his Name sustaineth but the great danger his Kingdome incurreth while such intollerable things are suffered as thy Servant hath in his Reply laid open Now ô Lord let it be thy pleasure to bring this worke to a full perfection by the publishing of it that so both the King and his People by taking knowledge thereof may come to see what a miserable condition they are brought into by one blinde guide and bold Prelate And let thy Spirit ô Lord awaken and quicken the minds of the Lords and Nobles of the King and State to consider what a base vassalage all those are brought under who suffer themselves to be made slaves to serve the lawlesse lusts of one domineering Primate and at length wisely to foresee the mischiefes which the Altering of Religion to the worse and reducing all back againe to Rome may and will certainly bring upon the Land and upon themselves too if not the more speedily prevented by a sound and serious thorow Reformation Make the great ones of the world ô Lord sensible that there is a judgement to come and that there is a terrible GOD above them that shall call them to a strict reckoning for all those ungodly practises wherein themselves have either been Agents or Instruments either Principalls or Accessories as in oppressing thy Word and Truth in persecuting thy faithfull Ministers and the like And Lord stirre up all thy people to fervent and continuall Prayer and strengthen them therein to persevere and watch untill an Answer come forth from thy Throne to all their Petitions and Supplications which from day to day they have and do and shall present unto thee Oh let not our God be angry with his people that pray unto him with unfained hearts and lips nor let their enemies Say Where is now their GOD But Lord stirre up thy strength and come and helpe us Put the wicked in feare O Lord that they may know themselves to be but men And shew some token upon thy servants for good that they which hate us may see it and be ashamed because thou Lord hast holpen us and comforted us And let the Atheisticall Scornfull world see that it is not in vain to serve God and to call upon him and to wait for him And now Lord avenge the Cause of Iesus Christ against Antichrist and break down Antichrists throne and exalt Christs Throne that himselfe alone may sit and rule and raigne over his People and the show● of that King may
Pope not to be Antichrist and no necessity of frequent Preaching and none to preach but Bishops and Deanes and that onely and especially at the three Solemn times in the yeare Also another Book intituled the Femall Glory as full fraught thoughout with the most grosse blasphemous Idolatrous Popish Stuffe as it can hold and this in plain English allowed by one of your Chapleins or of London house and for ought I heare not yet suppressed or call'd in Besides many other of the same branne some whereof are printed but kept up under deck not daring yet to peep forth till the Storm as in Starre Chamber you call'd it raysed by BURTON and others be over and least they should be made Popish Martyrs in Smithfield as Salis his Devotions were which for feare were burned as afore Under your Primacy hath there not been a mighty stirring and stickling for the seting up of Altars c. yea of Images too and Crucifixes and that in Collegiate Churches or Chappels both in Oxford you being Chauncellour and in Cambridge where you want not a Vice-Chauncellour and which you indeavour in all the Churches of England Under your Primacie have not your pregnantest wits and profoundest Divines been set aworke to write Books to unmorallize the 4th Commandement for the perpetuall keeping of the Lords Sabbath day and so unbind Christians from the sanctification of the Lords day and their Books allowed by your Authority and Dedicated to great ones and much applauded by your Faction Under your Primacie have not your Doctors also written stoutly for your Altars and that even unto blasphemy Saying that the use of the Altar is to sanctifie the Sacrifice and without an Altar the Sacrifice is not Sanctified or dedicated by the Bishop Under your Primacie began not Ministers to be Suspended Silenced Excommunicated put out of their Benefices and Cures of Soules for refusing to read the Book of Liberty for Sports on the Lords day and to set up Altars in their Churches at their Ordinaries Command These these my Lord being thus doe you complaine of unsettlednesse Who hath troubled the Fountain The Wolfe above at the Spring head or the Lamb below To recollect then and recapitulate these things When Profanation of the Lords day is by publick Edict allowed when the Articles of Religion are made as the Delphick Oracles to be taken two contrary wayes when the Doctrines of Gods Grace are universally restrained and forbid to be preached when Popish Books publickly allowed in Print and Orthodox Books against Popery restrained when Altars set up in all Churches where there was none before when Books published by Authority to disanull Gods Morall Law when Books allowed publickly to maintain the seting up of Altars in Churchs when Godly Ministers by multitudes put down for not yeelding to those things which are contrary to the Laws of God and man and all this in the State of England where from the first Reformation such as it was have been universally and constantly maintained both by writing and preaching the morality of the 4th Commandement for the sanctification of the Lords Day the Articles of Religion concerning Grace to have but one Orthodox sense the free and unrestrained preaching of Gods word and confuting of all opposite Errours that the Pope is that Antichrist that the Lords Supper was to be celebrated onely at the Lords Table that Ministers Conformity was extended no further then was limited by the Law all these things considered in the tumult of so many bold Innovations Innovation I cry you mercy Renovations I should say of old Popish ragges and outcast reliques for you disclaim Innovation against Gods law and Mans law what settlement what peace what tranquility can be expected and then again al these new Attempts for Uniformity and Conformity coming in under and with your Primacie can they vindicate your Reputation from a generall opinion of your being the most perillous and pernicious Instrument of unsettling and troubling the State o● the Land and of Religion and you may if you will take Scotland in to boot with generall discontents and heart burnings to see the State of Religion thus turned topsie turvie And doe you complain notwithstanding that you cannot attain to an Orderly Settlement Stay my Lord be not so eagre See Scotland first settled before you proceed further in the settlement of England least you unsettle all Be not deceived in the confidence of your own active brain and borrowed power And see also how your Booke will take For Certainly therein you have run your selfe upon the Pikes get off as you can Your Reputation if you meane it for the Repute to be a good Protestant unlesse you meane it that you would be accounted what you are a member of one and the Same Church with Rome is now bound to the Stake ready to be Sacrificed for a whole-burnt Offering For what your Ordinary practises proclaimed to the world of you now in your Book you stick not openly to professe that you desire for the Church and State of England to be reconciled to the Sea of Rome So as your Book besides the turbulent matter in it like the Trojan horse full of armed enemies could not possibly have been borne into the world in a more unhappy time then now when you see two Kingdomes all in a combustion which the Sprinkling of your Romes Holy water wil be so farre from quenching or allaying that it will prove rather as Oyle to increase and feed the flame But GOD give the King the Spirit of Wisedome and Iudgement to see into these things betimes both for the preventing of further mischiefes and for the reuniting of the great rent between his two Kingdomes But as Iehu said to Iehoram when he asked Is it peace Iehu What peace said he so long as the Whoredomes of thy Mother Iezabel and her Witchcrafts are so many So what peace can be expected in the Land where such an Uniformity and Settlement is required as is so repugnant to the Laws of Christs Kingdome and conformable to Antichrists Tyranny and conducible to a reconciliation with that old Iezabel of Rome Certainly the case being so as Deborah said in her Song They chose new gods then was warre in the gates So when a Nation falls to advance higher and higher a new and false Religion where it had been formerly in some good measure cast out to set up Idolatrous and Romish Altars whereby Christ the true and onely Altar of true Christians as hath been shewed is denyed and renounced and to cry down Gods holy Commandements and to oppresse Gods holy Word in the Ministry of it and to persecute Gods faithfull Ministers and People and like the Aegyptians to oppresse Gods People more and more with intolerable burthens of humane inventions to the great reproach of Christ and the throwing down of his incommunicable Royall Soveraignty over his Church and People in matters of Faith and the worship of God Can peace or settlement
of your House-hold Gods With Sacred Corn and savory Salt by oddes Yea and every Schoole-boy knowes that Distich of old Cato Si Deus est animus nobis ut carmina dicunt Hic tibi praecipuè sit pura mente colendus If God as Poems say a Spirit be Then with pure mind let him be serv'd of thee And as the Roman Orator also said Non in Ambrosia Deus c. I doe not think saith he that God is delighted with Ambrosia or Nectar or such like sensuall delights in his Service Tuscul. Quaest. lib. 1. Thus you see how those Heathen even by the glimmering light of nature had a better opinion of God then our modern Prelates have or at least then our present Oracle of Canterbury hath shewed himselfe to have for how neere came they to that truth uttered by Christ God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and truth c. And if you propound the Jewes for example of State in the service of God first God commanded it and the magnificence of it was a Type of Christ and of his Spirituall Temples all glorious within Those Types are all vanished the truth being come And to revive that Service and those Types or to set up an Image of them you doe with the Jewes deny Christ to be come And for this Ierome shall answere you Si placeat aurum placeat et Iudaei If gold please you so well in the service of God let the Jewes also and Judaisme please you And the Poet Dicite Pontifices in Templo quid facit aurum Tell us you Pontificiall Priests what makes gold in the Temple And tell me whether was Adam and Eve more beautifull in Gods eyes and their own too having no other cloathing or ornaments upon them but their naked Innocencie then in their new devised fashion of Fig-leave-Aprons Although they now seemed gay with their borrowed leaves as the Crow with his borrowed feathers And surely this may be a very fit patterne to Sample your Church by For yours and Romes Church having lost their Primitive and Originall beauty of Innocencie Simplicity and Purity of Christs Spouse as the Love of God Saving Faith Soundnesse of Doctrine Sanctity of Conversation and Purity of his Worship which you have by so many of your Superstitions so miserably corrupted think you now to please GOD with a curious painted Service which serves to no other purpose then to please your owne fancie and other mens carnall senses Is not this a GREAT WITNES to the World of your notorious blindnesse and most grosse and palpable ignorance of the very nature of the Godhead who Is a Spirit and therefore will be worshiped in Spirit and truth And they who thus worship him in Spirit and Truth are the true Worshipers as the same Scripture Speakes and GOD seeketh such to worship him as is noted before So as that Inscription which the Apostle found upon that Altar in Athens Agnósto Theo To the unknowne God may it not be written as well upon your whole service which you dedicate to the unknowne God which being patched up like a Fooles gay Coate of so many diverse coloured shreddes wherein your service being dressed up you think it is wondrous pleasing to God doth not all this bewray that you doe all this service to a God whom you know not as whom your fancie frameth to be some carnall Man whose senses are delighted with such service as his Eares with Organs his Eyes with goodly Images curious wrought Copes rich Palls faire guilded Plate his Smell with sweet Incense his Majesty with siting upon your Stately High Altar as upon his Throne and to keep his Residence in your goodly Cathedrall as in his Royall Court May not then that which the Apostle thereupon Preached to the Athenian Philosophers be hereupon applyed to the Romish Rabbies and blind Prelates of Rome and of the Church of England Ye men of the Church of England I perceive that in all things ye are too Superstitious For as I passed by and beheld your Devotions marke your Devotions I found an Altar for blind Devotion cannot be without an Altar with this Inscription To the unknown God whom therefore ye ignorantly worship him declare I unto you God that made the world and all things therein seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth dwelleth not in Temples made with hands neither is worshiped with mens hands as though he needed any thing c. Forasmuch then as we are the Offspring of GOD we ought not to thinke that the Godhead is like unto Gold or Silver or Stone graven by art and mans devise And the times of this Ignorance GOD winked at but now commandeth all men every where to Repent Because he hath appointed a day in the which he will judge the world in Righteousnesse c. Now what say you to this all you blind Ceremony-Mongers Are you growne so stupid as not to be sensible how this toucheth you as much yea and much more then those Athenians What Are you so blind and senselesse as for all this to dreame that GOD accepts your ga● Puppet-play as a Service of Piety done to him Nay GOD tooke so little delight in those Sacrifices and Rites which himselfe ordained in the Law and much lesse when the people rested in the outward performance and observance of them that he Saith Who required these things at your hands to tread in my Courts c. So also Psal. 50.8 I will not reprove thee for thy Sacrifices to have been continually before me I will take no bullocke out of thy house c. No Who so offereth me thanks and praise honoureth me and to him that ordereth his Conversation aright will I shew the Salvation of God Now consider this ye that forget God least I teare you in pieces and there be none to deliver Yea the consideration hereof brought Christ down from the bosome of his Father to offer up his body as the onely acceptable and All sufficient Sacrifice to put an end to all carnall rites and services If then Gods own Ordinances in the Law did not please him but that he must send his Sonne in the flesh to fullfill all things then what hope can you have that your vaine Superstitious devises should please GOD or that he should otherwise be affected with them but thereby to be provoked to send his Sonne the Second time in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God even all blind worshipers but much more willfully blind such as obey not the Gospel of our Lord Iesus Christ c. Then shall all your Sumptuous Ceremonies and Solemne Service be discovered and the rotten inside of your hypocriticall formalities be turned out to the view of all the world Like to Cardinall Campeius his Sumpter which with a justle in Cheape-side the girts bursting downe it falls and out fly the old Boots and Shooes and
your 16 th Sextion mentioned before which continueth from p. 59. to 116. wherein are sundry passages ●o this purpose whereof the last was one and the rest we shall touch as we meet with them And here I cannot though I said I would no more wonder but admire that such Speeches should flow down so fast from the Sea of Canterbury which is a mighty Catarrhact or distillation of the eye drowning the sight and flowing from such an abundant humour in the head as it is like to turne into a Dropsie possessing and putrifying the whole body which if not prevented by some remedy from h●aven must needs prove Epedemically mortall You are the first Antagonist of Iesuites that ever uttered such things and you might well have given them leave to utter such base Speeches of the holy Scriptures as more proper for a Jesuite then one pretending the Faith of a Protestant But the difference is not great nor matters is much which of you be the mouth having all one Spirit and being all one and the Same Church So as being the Metropolitan of that Church which with Rome is one and the Same you have the greater priviledge to speake in the language of that pregnant Mother who is so full of the names of Blasphemy against the word of God Now is not the Scripture so demonstratively evident in it selfe as to enforce assent What then shall doe it Probable Arguments from the light of Nature But Nature is blind as we shewed before of naturall Reason And againe how can that which is but probable confirme that which is truth For the Scripture is Truth it selfe As Christ saith Thy word is Truth Now there being strictly no proportion between Probability and Truth how can the Light of Nature which you say is but probable confirme that which is truth And we shewed also how the Naturall man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God which things are contained in the Scripture But you adde Arguments from humane Testimony confirme the Scriptures to be Gods word That which is but humane cannot strengthen that which is Divine I receive not the Testimony of man saith Christ. So the Scripture is so farre above humane testimony that it can receive no strength from it no more then God can receive strength from the creature Gods word from mans word And the Scripture being Gods written word is above Mans bare word As Christ tells the Jewes who took Christ for a meere Man If ye beleeve not Moses his writings how shall you beleeve my words Thereby implying That Writings the Scripture are above mans words Againe humane testimony in Comparison to Gods word is but a lye For every man is a lyer Moreover in saying The Scripture is not evident enough to demonstrate it selfe to be the word of God and to enforce assent but being strenthened by Probable Arguments from the light of Nature and of humane Testimony 't is then wilfullnesse and pride to suspect it Here you set the light of Nature above the word of Grace probability above Truth humane Testimony above Divine Man above GOD. For Christ tells us that the Scriptures beare witnesse of him And you Say the Scriptures are not sufficient witnesses of themselves and so consequently of Christ without mans testimony So as hereby you disable the Scripture as being an incompetent witnesse of Christ because not evident enough in themselves without humane Testimony So as how you can cleare your selfe from blasphemy I see not But this is but one degree For you adde The light which is in Scripture is not light enough it cannot beare sufficient witnesse to it selfe Now you open your mouth a little wider to blaspemy But we shall have yet more of ths Suffe out of your Wardrobe Of which I may say this by the way That you bewray how grosly and palpably blind you are in discerning the Scriptures glorious brightnesse being like that Woman in Lipsius who being blind her selfe blamed the house she was in for being very darke So you because you are blind your selfe the god of this world having blinded your eyes therefore you blame the holy Scriptures of GOD for being darke not bright enough to to beare witnesse to it selfe Why Surely all light is Sui index sui Communicativum it is a witnesse to it selfe that it shineth So as all in the house doe see it yea though it be but the light of a Candle as Christ saith If therefore the Scriptures have not so much light in them as all may see it to shine forth then they have no light at all For if there be any light at all it will shew it selfe But this you will not stick to tell us anon that the Scripture hath no light in it selfe and therefore no mervaile if here you say the Light that is in it is not bright enough And you tell us here also That the Testimony of the Holy Ghost ordinarily is not so much as considerable in this Question Why What is the Question Is it not how or by what meanes we beleeve the Scriptures to be the word of GOD Is not this the Subject Question of this whole 16 th Section and which you handle throughout And this being so have you forgotten what you told us before of this beliefe that the Scripture is the word of GOD Namely that faith is the gift of God of God alone and an infused habit in respect whereof the Soule is meerely recipient and that the sole infuser is the Holy Ghost and Till the Spirit of God move the heart of man he cannot beleeve And now doe you come and tell us The Holy Ghost ordinarily is not so much as considerable in the Question Yea but here you tell us this is not the Question What then Namely how the Scripture may be proposed as a Credible Object fit for beliefe And for this you set us downe a rule of Proposall which must of necessity take its rise from the Tradition or Authority of the Present Church Whereof we shall heare more anon But by your leave this is not the Question but the other For this your manner of Proposall you put it not as a Question but as an a'ítema a Question begged not to be argued and disputed upon as the nature of a Question is to be but you doe dogmatízein obtrude and force upon us a novell opinion of your owne devising without proofe of Reason Argument or Authority from the Scripture And therefore we deny your Question or Position as Heterodox or a Paradox contrary to the truth of God word which is the onely rule of determining all Questions in Divinity about faith whereof this is not the least How or by what meanes a man comes to beleeve the Scripture to be the word of God Now for the determining herof you would tye us to the one only manner of Proposing the Scripture as a Credible object fit for beliefe and that is necessarily to
But who shal be Judge of that Alas we are never the nearer if you Prelates be the visible Iudges For then what Canons or Constitutions shall crosse either Scripture or Positive Law of the Land which you shall define and determine to be fit for you to govern the Church by What Laws of the Realme shal be just which crosse one of your Canons Did not in a Cause pleaded in your High-Commission the Popes Canon aledged by the Advocate on the one party preponderate a Statute of Edw. 6. alledged by the Advocate of the adverse party so as the Popes Canon carryed the Cause So as while you will be the visible Iudges you will lead us all in a Circle and make us so turne round as we should not know where we are imagining that all the world went upon wheels Yea but there is yet one qualification may help at a pinch For you say Archbishops and Bishops under a Gratious Keng to governe c. 'T is true indeed that under the shadow of a Gracious King to you you are imboldened to do all you do Lastly you say the Church of England doth not beleeve there is any necessity to have one Pope or one Bishop over the whole Christian world And are there not trow you many thousands in the Church of England which doe not beleeve there is any necess●y of having One Pope or Arch-Prelate over the whole Church of England the other world as before And I beleeve there is no more necessity of the one then of the other but that they might be well spared as Christ will one day not spare them And as I said before the Pope by as good a Title may argue a necessity of his being uneversall Bishop over the whole Christian world as you can setting the Law of England aside for your being Pope over the whole Church of England And that upon your own Ground for you say The Church of England and the Church of Rome is one and the same Church no doubt of that and The Church of England may find her selfe where Romes is now just there then if so that both are one and the Popes Principality more powerfull then that of Canterbury and if there be a nccessity that Canterbury be over the whole Church of England which is but a part of the Catholicke and that for order and unity why not the like necessity for the Pope to be supreme over all for preserving order and unity seeing your Militant Church is but one and to make many heads many Vice-Roys is to divide the body and Kingdome and so make rents in it which you like not of But to conclude I beleeve and with me all true Beleevers who have their judgements rightly informed wherever they be in any part of the world that there is a necessity of duty lying upon all Christian Magistrates to exterminate and exterpate the whole Hierarchy and Prelacy as Antichristian enemies of Iesus Christ and of his Kingdome yea and the band of Civil States and people out of the world For so we read Rev. 17.16 17. A place worthy to be written in the hearts of all Kings Christian. And it is the duty of all true Christians to rowse up the Spirit of prayer in them and to stirre up the coals of zeale to flame forth in offring up of pure Incense of fervent Prayer especially in these times wherin Satan so rageth and his Instruments grow so malapert and mischievous that God would hasten the accomplishment of Antichrists Kingdome that so the Kingdome of Iesus Christ may be exalted and inlarged and he alone rule and raigne in his Church L. p. 212. Somwhat may be done by the Bishop and Governours of the Church to preserve the unity and certainty of Faith and to keep the Church from renting or for uniting it when it is rent And this pag. 198 one Pope cannot doe P. Somwhat Why you tell us immediately before that the Pope or a Bishop may perhaps despense in some cases with the Decrees of a Generall And this I hope is somwhat more then somwhat Or perhaps at least And we have shewed before how you Prelates do either preserve the Church from renting or when it is rent make up the breaches of it namely by an uniting and confederating against Christ and his true Church and by labouring tooth and nayle to support and keep safe and sound your Antichristian Hierarchy which is not truly and properly an unity but a conspiracie against Christ from whose true Mysticall body you have made the Great and unreconciliable Rent And therfore you to preserve the unity and certainty of Faith intire which even as you are Prelates you are altogether Apostates from and enemies unto Or is the spirit of Infallibility intayld to the Prelates Chaire For doth not this necessarily imply either an Infallibility or at least a greater dexterity and a more excellent and Divine spirit to be in Prelates qua Praelati Infulati as they are Mitred Bishops then in all those that are no Prelates when onely by Prelates though but somwhat to this purpose may be done But we have shewed before what ability or soundnesse of judgement in divine spiritual matters we may expect to be in Prelates in comparison of others who are both learned pious judicious Divines L. p. 194. To draw all together to settle Controversies in the Church there is a visible Iudge and Infallible but not living and that is the Scripture pronouncing by the Church and there is a visible and living Iudge and that is a Generall Councel P. Here I goe backe a little to fetch in this passage as fi● here to usher in a many other Passages scattered here and there in your Book which is hard to reduce to any order or forme But we must do as we may And I shall not wittingly offer violence to any part in the least though somtimes here and there I am faine to pull them in by the head and shoulders And here you doe with the Papists make the Scripture to be but a dead letter for say you it is not a living Iudge no nor yet a speaking Iudge but as it is pronounced by the Church Wheras the Apostle saith of it Zon●o lógos tou Theou The word of God is living or lively nor onely so but e'nergès effectuall as it is before noted And if you will apply this to the Word preached that 's true too Although you will not confesse preaching of Gods word to be the Scripture or yet the word of God But it must be pronounced by the Church as the onely mouth of Scripture and that must be also in the Churches sense Of which sufficiently before Yet this you adde to all your other indignities you put upon the Scripture that you make it a dead Iudge and so indeed no Iudge at all as before you plainly tell For if it be blind as wanting light and if it be mute or dumb
they shall interpret the same unto you And so I leave you to your faith wherein you declare your selfe to be quite from the true Catholicke Church of Christ whose Faith is built upon the onely foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Iesus Christ being the Chiefe corner stone without any depending upon humane testimony and Authority And so here an end of your Generall Councels But yet one thing remains unresolved on your part for you have told us that Generall Councels may erre even in fundamentall truths but whether at any time they doe actually so erre you resolve us not Nay in some places you make it so ambiguous whether they can erre or no that we know not what to make of it fish or flesh For pag. 223. you propound the Question saying whether a Generall Councel may erre or not is a Question of great consequence in the Church of Christ. To say it cannot erre leaves the Church not onely without remedy against an errour once determined but also without sense that it may need a remedy and so without care to seeke it which is the mystery of the Church of Rome at this day To say it can erre seems to expose the members of the Church to an uncertainty and wavering in the Faith to make unquiet spirits not onely to disrespect former Councels of the Church but also to slight and contemn whatsoever it may now determine into which errour some opposes of the Church of Rome have fallen Thus you Now this Question of so great consequence and that in utramque partem on both sides pro con you seem in your last words here to resolve and determine as if to say it can erre were an errour into which some opposers of the Church of Rome have fallen Now the Church of Rome hath had many opposes many Protestant Learned and Judicicious Divines of former times in the Church of England who have clearly proved that Generall Councels can erre as we have shewed before Now then do you prove they erred in so saying Or which is all one how do you prove that a Generall Councel cannot erre For if it be an errour to hold they can erre 't is no errour in you to hold they cannot erre Thus I find you fast upon the hooks get off and quit your selfe as well as you can But pag. 239 you distinguish which in summe is That all those Popish Authors alledged by Bellarmine for Generall Councels not erring either speake of the Church including the Apostles as all of them doe and then all grant the voyce of the Church is Gods voyce and infallible Or also they are Generall unlimited and appliable to private Assemblies as well as Generall Councels which none grant to be infallible but some madde Enthusiasts Or else they are limited not simply into all truth but all necessary to salvation In which I shall easily grant a Generall Councel cannot erre suffering it selfe to be led by this spirit of Truth in the Scripture and not taking upon it to load both the Scripture and the spirit Thus there Now here I would aske the most perspications and Judicious Reader that reads these lines and ponders them well'-what certain conclusions or resolutions he can picke or deduce out of your words either for Infallibility or not First That all grant The voyce of the Church is Gods voyce divine and infallible if you speake of the Church including the Apostels Whence your conclusion should be this That Generall Councels being the Church representative are infallible their voyce is Gods voyce divine and infallible understanding the Church whereof they are the Representative to include the Apostels Ergo by vertue of the Apostles understood to be included in the Church wherof Gen. Councels are the Representative their voyce is Gods voyce divine and infallible and so can not erre in any age unto the end of the world still understanding that in the name of the Church the Apostles are included can any rationable man or reasonable creature make hereof any other conclusion Secondly In all truth necessary to salvation you easily grant a Generall Councel cannot erre suffering it selfe to be led by the spirit of Truth in the Scripture This is just as Arminius said in answere to that place in Iohn for the certaine Perseverance of Gods Saints Whosoever is borne of God doth not commit sinne for his seed remaineth in him and he cannot sinne because he is borne of God Now how doth that Heretick avoyd so cleare a Testimony and evidence That is saith he so long as the seed of God remaineth in him but it may depart But the Apostle gives this as a reason why the Saints cannot fall away Because seed of God abideth in them being Regenerate Ergo it ever abideth in them and therfore they cannot fall away And as he so you here A Generall Councel is infallible while it suffers it selfe to be led by the spirit of Truth in the Scripture As if you said A Generall Councel while it doth not erre it doth not erre but in that i● infalliblepunc as you told us before But what if a Generall Councel doe not suffer it selfe to be led by the spirit of Truth in the Scripture That is what if a Generall Councel have not this spirit of Truth in it to keep it that it suffer it selfe to be led by the spirit of Truth in the Scripture What is your Resolution here you leave us still upon uncertainties concerning Generall Councels infallibility And you seem to grant that a Generall Councel may take upon it to lead both the Scripture and the spirit O miserable perplexities of a man whose spirit itcheth to speak somthing which he dare not But tell us ingeniously and plainly if there be any ingenuity in you Hath a Generall Councel this spirit of Truth in the Scripture alwaies to make it Infallible in all necessary Truths or not That 's the point But this you doe not dare not grant Yet thus much you are bold to say That the Assistance of the Holy Ghost is without Errour That 's no Question and as little there is that a Councel hath it How Is there as little Question to be made that a Councel of Prelates hath the Assistance of the Holy Ghost as That the Assistance of the Holy Ghost is without errour No more Question I Question whether a Generall Councel have the Assistance of the Holy Ghost will you therfore as well question whether the Assistance of the Holy Ghost is without errour Nay I am so farre from making question that I am confident and that upon cleare evidence that your Generall Councels of later times especially under Antichrist neither have had ●or have beene capable of the Assistance of the Holy Ghost to preserve them from errour For they have been still assembled against Christ and his Truth and the true Church and Children of God and either for the decreeing of wicked errours in in Faith or
no salvation And that one Doctrine of Justification by works were there no more which all Papists professe and hold is alone sufficient to shut out all Papists living and dying therein from salvation This being so cleare should Protestants grant notwithstanding a possibility of salvation to any Papist living and dying in that Romish faith they should utter a manifest untruth and falshood and so should bewray themselves to be notoriously uncharitable How First to Protestant Professors 2. to Papists To Protestant Professors causing the weake at least to waver in their faith and make them the apter to be seduced by Romish Priests and Jesuites who prevaile not a little with vulgar Protestants and that by this very Argument which you hold That Protestants yea the Primate of Canterbury grant a possibility of salvation in the Roman Church Whereas we say the Jesuites deny salvation to be had in the Protestant Church Although I hope they will not extend this to the Church of England which you say is one and the same Church with that of which Rome is Againe secondly Protestants in not affirming this truth Then it is impossible for any Papist living and dying in the Roman faith to be saved should be very uncharitable to the Papists themselves For seeing them running on in a way which is full of false ground and deep pits covered over with green leaves and the end whereof is certaine and unavoydable destruction should they not cry out unto them to abandon that way and by all meanes and speed to get them out of it they were very uncharitable And the Scripture calls this hatred of our Brother As Levit. 19.17 Thou shalt not hate thy broth●r in thy heart thou shalt in any wise rebuke him and not suffer sin upon him And for ignorant Papists we are not to cast off all hope of them but erranti comiter monstrare viam shew those wanderers the right way instructing them with meeknesse proving if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledgement of the truth And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the Devil being taken captive of him at his will Ob. But for Protestants to have no better an opinion of Papists and of their Religion would as you tell us before make the rent wider which you are loth to doe The rent is too wide so to be sowed up with the rotten thread of your Charity Nay such your Charity keeps Papists the further off from the true Protestant Religion when they may be provided of salvation nearer home and that so easily too But however the truth must be spoken as you ●old us before As Augustine saith in the point of Predestination at the Preaching whereof some in his dayes as too many in ours taking offence he answereth Numideo tacenda est veritas c. Is the Truth therfore to be concealed because some unjustly are offended with it to their damnation and not rather to be spoken that he which is able to receive it may receive it to his salvation And here the Papists take offence at Protestants for speaking the truth it is not scandalum datum but acceptum not an offence given but taken And though some take offence yet others weighing by reason may thereby through Gods grace forsake their errour and imbrace the truth If they will not we have freed our own soules and Truth is Truth still We must keep our distance and not because they will not come to us goe the halfe way at least to draw them to us as before As the Lord saith to his Prophet concerning revolted Israel Let them return unto thee but return not thou unto them And if thou take forth the Precious from the vile thou shalt be as my mouth We must not mingle and confound the precious and pure gold with the base drosse not truth with errour not light with darknesse Yet for your part you say Thirdly Not to deny Papists salvation living and dying Papists to wit in the Roman Faith is not mistaken Charity and if it be mistaken Charity is better then none at all But first we have shewed that this is no Charity at all but an erronious opinion arising from a spirit destitute of the Truth and too much in love with the Romish whore And Secondly such mistaken Charity is worse then no Charity at all in this kind It were better if ye had no such Charity For your Charity towards your silly ignorant Papists in perswading them that they are safe enough in any society of men and there is salvation for them living and dying in the Roman Faith is a nuzzling of them in their ignorance and like the Apes Charity to her young one a strangling of them with too much hugging and bewrayes you to be of the spirit of those false Prophets that strengthen the hands of the wicked that he should not return from his wicked way by promising him life that dawbe with untempered morter that call evil good and good evil that put darknesse for light and light for darknesse and wo to such that say peace peace when there is no Peace Ob. But you will say shall we shut out silly ignorant Papists from Gods mercy Nay you your selfe shut them out from Gods mercy while you shut them up in their blindnesse and so from the meanes of Gods mercy For meanes of mercy they have none in their Popish Religion and blind faith and therein you lull them fast asleep while you tell them so long as they are ignorant of the Errours of Popery they are safe among any part of men Thus you shut them out from Gods mercy as much as in you is when we by shewing them the truth and their errour would lead them to Gods mercy Nor doe we deny but God may in the riches of his Grace and mercy prevent and overtake a silly Papist in causing him to imbrace Christ by Faith even when he lyes on his death bed and truly beleeving in Christ and so dying he is undoubtedly saved But dying thus a true Beleever he dyes not in the Roman faith but in the saving faith of Christ which the Roman faith is not So as thus dying within the Verge of the Roman Church yet he dyes no member of the Roman Church but of the true misticall body of Christ. And this Charity we have towards silly Papists praying that God would shew them mercy in delivering them from under Antichrists yoake to take Christs yoake upon them and bring them out of darknesse into his marvellous light To proceed L. p. 294 295. Io. Frith saith Of the presense of Christs naturall body in the Sacrament that neither side ought to make it an Article of Faith but leave it indifferent And B. Ridley we confesse all one thing to be in the Sacrament onely we differ in modo in th● manner of Beeing P And of this of Ridley you say ibid. 'T is well if some