Wing-Clipping NO CRIME BEING AN ANSWER TO B. Bird's Reply TO THE Wandering Bird's Wings Clipp'd Prov. 10.32 The Mouth of the Wioked speaketh Frowardness Isa 5.27 As a Cage is full of Birds so are their Houses full of Deceit LONDON Printed for Thomas Northcott in George-yard in Lombard-street 1696. THere are yet many unclean Birds and Remains of the Seeds of evil Doers of whom the Lord hath said They shall never be Renowned that are exercised in their evil Works of speaking falsly and misrepresenting a despised People that the great God in his rich Love through Jesus Christ his Son hath visited with his divine Light and quickned by his eternal Spirit and unto whom it s given not only to believe but also to suffer for his Name-sake in and through whom and by what he hath done and suffer'd even Jesus of Nazareth concerning whom there was a Murmurring among the People in Days past of whom some have said he was a good Man and others said Nay but he deceived the People and so have some said of us his Followers and of his Ministers in these Days as they did of the Apostles in Days past who were counted Deceivers and yet True and went through evil Report and good Report yet in all things approved themselves the Ministers of God in much Patience as do his in this day yet doubt not but as they live and abide in him they shall not only be hated of Men separated from and reproached and all manner of Evil spoken against them falsely for his Name-sake but shall also partake of his Blessing altho ' they may have Curses from that evil Generation and Seed of evil Doers yet they firmly believe the Lord of Hosts will perform his Word Isa 12.23 And rise up against them and cut off from Babylon the Name and Remnant Son and Nephew and will also make it a Possession for the Bitterns and Pools of Water and will sweep it with the Besom of Destruction as said the Lord of Host And although Gog and Magog Runagates and Apostates may take Counsel together I firmly believe it shall come to naught and altho' they speak the Word it shall not stand For God is with us Now to B. Bird's Pamphlet Wing-Clipping no Crime c. HAving clipt a wandering Bird's Wings he 's now angry and retorts and saith There have been many Clippers hanged lately and that I should have forborn Clipping this Year for Luck's sake Howbeit I fear not that Fate for clipping his Wings neither can he prove that any have been Hanged this Year or last for that kind of Clipping But now he cannot flye as he would he flutters and makes a Noise and shews what he would do if he could viz. Confute what I said which he is so far from that he don't adventure against a part of it but fluttters and chatters and as confidently as ignorantly pretends to do that which he is not able now his Wings are clipt viz. To prove from Scripture and Experience That Christ the true Light that lighteth every Man that cometh into the World who said I am the Light of the World is not above the Scriptures For his asserting the contrary would render him that hath built the House less honourable than the House or that Spirit which inspired the Holy Men to write the Scriptures not above but inferior to the Scriptures And for proof that the Scriptures is above Christ and that my denying it is contrary to Scripture he quotes 2 Cor. 4.4 The God of this World hath blinded the minds of them that believe not lest the Light of the glorious Gospel of Christ who is the Image of God should shine into them Now how this proves that its contrary to Scripture to say That Christ the Light is above the Scriptures I shall leave those that are acquainted therewith to judge And whether this doth not rather prove that he joyns with the God of this World as much as in him lieth to blind People's Minds and beget a slight in them to the Light of the glorious Gospel lest it should shine unto them and they should believe therein Again he asserts with his confident ipse dixit it 's contrary to Experience that Christ the Light is above the Scriptures And for proof saith W. Pen in his account of the Indians in Pensilvania tells us They are very ignorant in Matters of Religion pag. 2. Is not this a notable Proof because the Indians are ignorant in Matters of Religion therefore Christ that Light whom I affirmed was preferrable to or above the Scriptures is not above the Scripture but contrary to both the Scripture and Experience This puts me in mind of a Question he asks in p. 6. How long may a poor Parish Minister Preach before he make up a Purse Answ Long enough if he be no better than he by his Writing appears to be And if he hath no better than this to give People he need not complain of my saying That he and such as he cause People to spend Mony for that which is not Bread as in p. 7. But if B. B. should say that he did not say Christ was not above the Scriptures but the Light within which we profess then I charge him to show where in any of my former I preferred any Light within but Christ above the Scriptures And let him if he can prove that Christ is or can be any more divided or separated from his Light within Men than from his Spirit And being B. B. mentions our Yearly Meeting 1694. p. 1 and p. 5. falsly and wickedly saith That we would lay aside the Lord that bought us who is now in Heaven at the right Hand of God for the Imagination of our own Hearts p. 7. where he also speaketh of G. K. I will here insert what G. K. said in 1694. viz. That the Light within being God the Word and the Spirit in every Man is sufficient to reveal to every Man all that 's needful to his eternal Salvation which let B. B. confute if he can and shew whether G. K. doth not exalt the Light within above the Scriptures as much as we and then let him consider whether we deny the Lord that bought us because we own Christ to be spiritually in our Hearts Concerning the Scripture P. 2. B. B. saith You pretend you have an honourable Esteem of these Holy Writings and account them the best in all the World and yet you dishonour the Scriptures very much by crying up a Light within every Man above them And what is this but a Pagan Design to bring Men back to Paganism And then he adds The Light within is not above the Scriptures Answ We have an honourable Esteem for the Holy Scriptures and do so esteem them as above But I deny that we dishonour them by giving preference to Christ any more than himself did when he said Search the Scriptures for in them ye think ye have eternal Life and they are
full discharge of that Duty and Worship that 's due to God which is in the Spirit and in the Truth and can be only and alone acceptably performed to God and Christ in the Spirit according to Christ's Words Or must that spiritual Worship be compleated by Signs and Figures which were made use of in the time of the Law and were the Shadows of the good Things but the Substance was Christ And if the Lord gives us him will he not with him give us all things And what lack then can there be to such that knows him to dwell in their Hearts by Faith in whom the Treasures of Wisdom are hid and in whom all Fulness dwells Surely it s well with these And except Jesus Christ be in us doth not Paul say me are Reprobates Oh read seriously these Things and consider and ponder them and the Lord give all by his Holy Spirit an Understanding that they may be wise to the Salvation of their Souls and yet not above what 's written For those that own the Scriptures to be the only Rule of Faith and Practice and that all Doctrins are to be plainly proved by them should bring express Scriptures for those things which they esteem Christ's Institutions and his Ordinances or otherwise never press them on those that by the Scripture nor the Spirit of God in themselves are enjoined or led thereunto Oh therefore that all might come to have their Minds turned from Darkness to Light and from Satan's Power unto God that thereby they might receive and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ come and see their States as they really are in the sight of of God and be made truly sensible of their own Weakness Blindness and Ignorance and through Obedience thereto and by walking therein and being inspired by God's holy Spirit have a clear Understanding and a right Judgment in all things and Experience a receiving Power to become the Sons of God and by walking in this Light of Jesus Christ so much opposed and hated by those that do Evil might know Fellowship with God and the Blood of Christ to cleanse them from all Unrighteousness that being God's Children he might feed them with that living Bread whereby they may be nourished up unto Eternal Life which is my hearty desire for B. B. and all People notwithstanding it is our as it ever was the Lot of the Followers of Christ to meet with many Tribulations and endure a great fight of Afflictions and to go through cruel Mockings and esteemed false when true movers of Sedition when they sought Peace and ensued it and to be evil spoken of and to have our way every where spoken against and the slanderous Tongues and Pens of Malicious Men exercised and employ'd against us and when they have cast forth their Lies and Slanders like Floods one to quote another as if our Accusers were to be our Judges for this B. B. he quotes F. Bugg T. Crisp George Keith and the Snake in the Grass and they again quote one another so that the Authority is semper ibidem the bare confident Say-so's and false Accusations of our apparent Enemies and enviovs Apostates Now if I should quote for Proofs against the Church of England what the Presbyterians say and write against them or what the Papists write against them would it be taken for good proof If so I should soon render them not only Innovators Ceremony-mongers and Apostates but Hereticks and no true Christians But alas for want of better Proofs B. B. is forc'd to bring what our refuted Adversaries say and then insinuate on his own Authority that we are no Christians Oh the confidence of this Priest For if so tho' a Presbyterian an Independant or an Anabaptist he would own me And yet how hath he and some of his Brethren persecuted both Presbyterians Independants and Anabaptists for their Non conformity to their Church Oh! the Deceit and Hypocrisie of this Man thus to collogue with them What Thanks will the Church of England give him for this Was the breaking up their Meetings Fining and Imprisoning them and thundering out Bulls of Excommunication against them by the Church of England because they were Christians Or is that the Bread that such Protestant Ministers did break to them and People as B. B. brags of p. 7. Or was this the Bread that Christ and his Apostles did break to the latter I say nay And therefore B. B. thou art rhe unnatural Father that gives Stone-walls rather than Bread that cause People to be inclosed between them for Nonconformity to your Church or for not putting into your Mouths whereby many have been prevented to get Bread for themselves and Families Surely I may retort and say No wise Man will part with his Ingenuity for such a Persecutors Christianity but B. B. hath so little of either to part with that he need not fear being deprived For in his last he complains That his worthy Friend or some other clapt a Title to his former without his Previty for what he did was in a private Letter to a Friend upon whose Request it was printed without my privity and the Title is not mine I was meerly drawn in to bring up the Rear said B. B. And now he complains I have not Answered his 1st Sheet which was a Letter to his Ingenious Mr. Clap. Oh! how he commends his Mr. Clap now and before complains he was drawn in to bring up the Rear I wish his worthy Mr. Clap and he did shew more Christianity and Ingenuity than to be so officious and busied besides their Business to encourage one another in such an evil Work of belying and falsly misrepresenting the People called Quakers and their Principles which I hope in this and my former I have shew'd B. B. hath with his Mr. Clap's Assistance as if he was minded to do something to pleasure his old Friends the Presbyterians who in their Day was as busy as bitter in persecuting the Quakers when they had Power as now to revile and falsly accuse them and like Herod and Pilate can agree in this evil Work Yet the worst I wish them is unfeigned Repentance to the acknowledgment of the Truth and that they might by true Love and Christian Conversation coupled with God's holy Fear by sound Doctrin and clear Proofs from the Holy Scriptures without their corrupt Meanings and false Glosses approve themselves true Christians and demonstrate thereby their Doctrins and Practices to be agreeable thereto And for his advising me to read The Snake in the Grass I answer I have and find that Author is one of his Brethren exercised in the same evil Work of misrepresenting the People called Quakers and their Doctrins and quoting for proof such Pooks writ against them that have been already answer'd as he may also in a short time see that Book answer'd which then I would have him read the Answer as I have the Book Lond. Octob. 12. 1696. JOHN FEILD
Were they a Protestant Church of England And was it before Rome departed from the Faith This is that he is to prove if he can or can he prove a Succession of Bishops from the Apostle's Days without going to Rome I tro not And for a Retreat thither he begins to provide saying p. 6. Notwithstanding the Corruptions in the Church of Rome their Ordination might not be so far corrupted but that it might give Men a lawful Call to preach the Gospel and to reject their Errors So she may be corrupted yet this corrupt Romish Church may give Men a lawful Call to preach the Gospel and then those so lawfully Called may turn against her and take her Tythes Profits Glebe-lands and Church-lands from her turn her out and call her Whore into the Bargain And hold they are true Sons ordained of the corrupted Whore that 's apostatized from the Christian Faith and Doctrin to preach the Gospel to rail at her to revile sue and molest others and in scorn with design to blacken them as B. B. doth the Quakers saying Your Synagogue will in a little time be annexed to the Mother Church and to believe as the Church of Rome believes which saith he p. 2. is a Popish Foundation of Faith Then let B. B. consider Whether he is not already joined to his Mother whatever his Synagogue is And whether he hath not a Popish Foundation of Faith if he believe as the Church of Rome doth and That they have Power to make Ministers of the Gospel and ordain them to that Work Let the Sober and Judicious determin Whether this be agreeable either to Truth or the Scriptures of Truth And seeing B. Bird is so highly offended with me for saying God and Jesus Christ only have Power to make Ministers of the Gospel and ordain them to that Work I will refer him to Jus Divinum Ministerii Evangelici published by the Provincial Assembly of London his quondam Friends saying on this Subject p. 168. For we know it is the Prerogative Royal of the Lord Jesus Christ to appoint Offices and Officers in his Church It is Christ ONLY that institutes the Office and that furnisheth and fitreth Men with Graces and Abilities for the Discharge of so great an Imployment with willing and ready Minds to give up themselves to so holy Services It is Christ ONLY that sets the Laws and Rules according to which they must act And seeing B. B. is such a busie and officious Scribler that busieth himself in others Quarrels let him quarrel with this also if he please and seek to confute it Concerning Baptism P. 5. B. B. saith Christ's Ministers baptize with Water in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost according to their Commission Mat. 28.19 And administer the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper according to his own Institution 1 Cor. 11.23 24 25 26. Answ I deny that those that baptize with Water do it according to the Commission which Christ gave to his Disciples Matth. 28.19 20. I may repeat the foregoing Words and the Commission All Power said Jesus is given unto me in Heaven and Earth Go ye therefore and teach all Nations baptizing them in the Name of the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you and lo I am with you to the end of the World Amen Now observe there is no mention of Water therefore they that baptize with Water do it not according to the express Words of Christ's Commission Again observe That Teaching goes before Baptizing and that Infants are not capable of such Teaching and the end of their Teaching was to observe all things whatsoever Christ commanded which Infants are not capable to do nor any according to B. Bird for he saith We may not live without siin and that its impossible to keep God's Commands And if this Priest Bird be not made and ordained a Minister by God and sent by Jesus Christ he is not Commissioned to either Teach or Baptize And till he proves himself a Gospel Minister truly Ordained and rightly Commissioned to Preach and Baptize with Water I need not enlarge on this Head only I do acknowledge for satisfaction of others That I do believe that Christ's Ministers are to teach all Nations baptizing them in or into the Name of the Father the Son and Holy Ghost and that all those that are so Baptized are in through and by that Name Power and Spirit made Members of that Body of which Christ is the Head and of that Church which is in God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ Concerning the Supper I do also deny that 1 Cor. 11.23 24 25 26. proves Christ Institution of the Supper but is a Repitition of what Christ did before his Crucifixion at the close of the Feast of the Passover and none of the Evangelists that give an account thereof make any mention that Christ said As often as ye eat this Bread and drink this Cup ye do shew forth the Lords death till he come Luke 21.9 doth indeed give an Account that Christ said Do this in remembrance of me but limits no time And Goodwin in his Antiquities Lib. 3. Cap. 2. p. 110. shews it was a Jewish Rite or Ceremony which Christ using altho' he varied something from their Form as being minded to spiritualize his Disciples and by that to shew forth to them that his Body was to be broke and his Blood shed for them and the Sins of the World Yet he told them as we may read John 6.53 to 57. Jesus saith Verily verily I say unto you Except ye eat the Flesh of the Son of Man and drink his Blood ye have no Life in you And also saith He that eateth my Flesh and drinketh my Blood dwelleth in me and I in him Which plainly shews none can have Life in them or be true Christians but who so do and those that so do he dwelleth in and they in him And no doubt but those in whom he dwells will by his Spirit which he saith to his Disciples shall bring all things to your remembrance have these things brought to their remembrance and it will keep them as they live therein in a living and sensible remembrance of the great Love of God in sending his Son and the great Love of Christ in having his Body broke and his Blood shed for us and this Spirit will fill the Hearts and Mouths of such with a Hymn of Praises and a Song of Thanksgiving unto the Lord God and the Lamb that was dead and is alive and lives for evermore So by these the substance is enjoyed and then what necessity is there for such to retain the use of the outward and visible Sign when the inward and Spiritual Grace is receiv'd Or can any think that the Spirit will not do what Christ said it should Or that the use of the Sign is of absolute necessity to bring them to the right performance and
they which testifie of me And ye will nor come to me that ye might have Life So we desire that People would read and search the Scriptures which testifie of him as we also do and would not have People think they can have eternal Life by them for altho' they testifie of him yet they must come to him if they would have Life And if this be a Pagan Design we are guilty thereof but if not then B. B. is a false Accuser and Asserter in saying The Light within i. e. Christ is not above the Scriptures As also he is for saying That God hath made the Scripture-Light Judge of our Light within because the Scripture saith The Father hath committed all Judgment to the Son who is that Light that we prefer and own Toncerning Perfection P. 2. B. B. saith our Doctrin That no Man ever lived upon Earth without Sin except the Man Christ Jesus thou callest a Sin-pleasing Doctrin Answ Here he varies his Position I did not say so but did oppose his saying That we may keep our Allegiance to Christ altho' we cannot live without transgressing God's Law And his saying It 's impossible while here perfectly to keep his Commandments And that they may not live without Sin It was on this I said our Allegiance to God and Christ is Truth and Faithfulness in whom as we believe and are obedient we are by the Grace of God and Spirit of Christ enabled to discharge our Duty to God But to assert It 's IMPOSSIBLE for Christians while here perfectly to perform their Duty to God and that we may not live without Sin renders not only the Christian Worship and Service in all the parts of it imperfect but also renders the Devil more powerful to lead and keep People in Sin than Christ Jesus to whom all Power both in Heaven and Earth is given is to lead and keep People out of Sin And in p. 3. he saith Thy Doctrin of living without Sin or breaking God's Commands is a sin-pleasing Doctrin Answ I deny that its a sin pleasing Doctrin to teach That by Christ Jesus who came to destroy the Works of the Devil and to put an end to sin Man may be enabled to keep God's Command but it s rather a Christ-pleasing Doctrin for he said Be ye Perfect as your Heavenly Father is Perfect and it s said Be ye Holy for I the Lord your God am Holy And in the same p. 3. B. B. saith I do believe that it is Man's duty to serve God truly and this good Men do and yet cannot acquit themselves of Sin Answ I agree with him if he means by any Power or Strength of their own but that that which make good Men such is not sufficient to enable them to acquit themselves of Sin I deny yet am of his Mind thus far when he saith God's Commands are not grievous to good Men they keep them with all their Hearts but dissent from him in his saying They fail in the keeping of them and that they may not live without Sin as if there were a necessity for Men to Sin This is such a piece of Contradiction and Nonsense that I think none but one without Sense would assert as B. B. hath And that also where he saith We may keep our Allegiance to Christ although we cannot live without transgressing God's Law And to this Head in my former Reply p. 5 6 7. I have writ fully to which I refer and in his next advise him to bring one Scripture if he can to prove That its impossible while here perfectly to keep God's Commands through the help and assistance of Jesus Christ or that there is a necessity for true Christians to sin so long as they live in this World and that good Men keep God's Commands withal their Hearts yet they fail in the keeping of them and then I may lay my Hand on my Mouth or say Erit mibi magnus Apollo And for B. B.'s saying p 3. That the Church of England lifted King James upon the Throne and asserted his Right of Succession though the House of Commons voted That there was no passibility of preserving the Life of King Charles II. while the Papists had any hopes of the Duke 's thus Succeeding him I may only Answer I esteem it no concern of mine either to life him upon the Throne or put him from it and if the Church of England were concerned in both and esteem it their Honour and agreeable to the Doctrin of Non-resistance and Passive Obedience let them answer for that and prove it for it s not my Business to vindicate Nor the Murder of his Father or to tell who were concerned therein or that they were B. B.'s quondam Friends but that this scribling Priest B. would suggest these things and insinuate from them and King James being kind to us that we were Papists are not conclusive I doubt not but those that are acquainted with our Principles know them to be as remote from Popery as B. B's is from true Charity and Sincerity Concerning Tythes In p. 4. he saith Thou criest down Tythes as Jewish tho' it was paid to Melchesedeck by Abraham while Levi was in his Loins Heb. 7. Again ibid. Thou callest it a forc'd Maintenance tho' it be given by the King and People in Parliament Answ I do say they are Jewish and were given by the Levitical Law to the Priests of that Law and verily they that are of the Sons of Levi who receive the Office of the Priesthood have a Commandment to take Tythes of the People according to the Law that is of their Brethren tho' they come out of the Loins of Abraham ver 7. And it was not only for them but the Stranger and the Fatherless and the Widow which are within the Gates that were to come and Eat and be satisfied with these Tythes Now if B. B. be of this Tribe and appertaining to this Priest-hood and under this Law he should kill Beast-Sacrifice and let the Poor the Widow and the Fatherless partake of the Tythe with him but if he grants the Priesthood is chang'd he must acknowledge there is of necessity a change also of the Law The Law then being changed that gave them it s on his part to prove That Christ in the New Testament did anew give them to his Gospel Ministers for their Maintenance or enjoyn or direct his Followers to pay Tythes Again the Reason doth not remain viz. the Levites had no Inheritance among their Brethren and their whole time was taken up in the Discharge of their Office but now many that Christ hath called to be his Ministers have Inheritance among their Brethren and Employments by which with the use of their own Hands they can have and do administer to their own Necessities as Paul did altho' I do grant that the Labourer is worthy of his Hire and that they who Preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel as I also do esteem
that such having Food and Rayment should therewith be content and a sufficient Support to such I acknowledge ought not to be wanting in case they stand in need But that Tythes are Christian or that Melchisedec's receiving the Tenth of the Spoils which Abraham freely gave him proves Tythes Christian or a Gospel-Maintenance Ordered or ordained by Christ for his Ministers I deny For he said to them he sent forth Freely ye have received freely give And if B. B.'s Hearers freely give him the Tenths or Fifths I shall not quarrel with them for giving nor him for receiving But a forced Maintenance from them or to those who do not Esteem B. B. a Gospel Minister nor those whose Spirit Practice and Doctrin declare the contrary I say a forced Maintenance from any to such that are not Gospel Ministers is not Scriptural And his pleading for Tithes by a humane Authority or Law to force them is no Scripture Warrant for Payment thereof in the Gospel Day Altho its a Christian Duty for such Passively and Patiently to suffer when they are Prosecuted because they cannot for Conscience sake be Active in paying such a forced Maintenance to those that falsly call themselves Gospel Ministers as many have greatly suffered by such for a very small matter demanded But how agreeable to Christs Doctrin and his Ministers Example it was for B. B. or is for any such as he that do not Esteem us to be Christians to sue at Law spoile Goods Imprison till Death and endeavour to Ruin Men Widows and their Families for Tithes toward their Maintenance as some have I leave to the truly Wise to Judge and if he owns the Scriptures to be the only Rule of Faith and Practice let him produce one Scripture to shew that ever any of Christs Ministers so did to Jews or Gentiles that were or were not of them And I would have him know it s not the Law of the Land that ought always to oblige Christians and the People of God in every thing to be active in what it requires neither are they justly condemnable for concientiously refusing so to be in all things But B. B. saith p. 5. You may with as much Honesty pick their Pockets as keep them away I deny that for picking a Man's Pocket employs taking privily and thievishly that from him which he hath honestly got or laboured for And with-holding or substracting of Tythes is only keeping that which he hath honestly laboured and been at Charge for from him that did not labour for it P. 5. How easie is it for any Seducer and Deceiver to pretend a Commission This B. B. speaketh with respect to false Ministers and no doubt but he is very sensible that its easie for him or any Seducer and Deceiver as well as he to pretend a Commission to preach if they have a little Learning and can procure Induction and Ordination from a Bishop esteem themselves to be truly Ordained although they have not the Laying on of the Hands of the Presbytery and that they are Ministers of the Gospel and have a Right to the Tenths of the People as Pigs Hens Geese Corn Hay and Fruits and if they have it not Quarterly they 'll like the false Prophets of Old and like B. B. sue at Law trouble molest and prepare War against such then for treble Damages or Sequestration and O! the Spoil Ruin and Havock that these will make that is such as B. B. although I believe there are those of them that are more moderate and tender and conscientious and that rather incline to take them in kind than spend five times more than the pretended Dues to gain them so for I have known that above 50 l. have been taken for 20 s. demanded for Tythes and two Persecuted for 7 and 8 Farthings till the Charges have amounted to 17 l. And if any can believe these and such like Doings represents such Prosecutors true Gospel-Ministers that take the Holy Scriptures only for their Rule of Faith and Practice therein let them if they will for my part I shall rather believe that those that are called of God and ordained by Jesus Christ to this Work are his Ministers although B. B. is so offended with me for saying as he quotes me p. 5. viz. Concerning Ordination Thou sayest That God and Jesus Christ only have Power to make Ministers of the Gospel and ordain them to that Work Yea truly I am of that Mind and if he believes any other have Power to make Gospel Ministers and to ordain them to that Work I Dissent from him And his finding fault with this implies That he esteems Men have Power to make Ministers of the Gospel and ordain them to that Work and not God and Jesus Christ only Is this agreeable to the Holy Scriptures See John 21. where Christ says to his As my Father hath sent me even so send I you And said Paul I was sent of God By which it appears it was God and Christ that sent Gospel-Ministers But B B. quotes Titus 1.5 6 7. 1 Tim. 4.14 2 Tim. 2.2 And because Paul writ to Titus to ordain Elders and the Presbyters laid on their Hands and Paul advises Timothy to commit to faithful Men the things that he heared of him who shall be able to teach others B. B. would infer That the Presbyters or Bishops now the Tide is turned have Power to make Ministers of the Gospel and ordain them to that Work and is not willing to leave this only unto God and Jesus Christ but would have them esteemed so qualified as to make and ordain Ministers of the Gospel But if we have none of God's making nor God and Christ's ordaining I fear they will be such that will run when God never sent them and that will say Thus saith the Lord when the Lord never spoke by them and will not profit the People at all What he returns on me for asserting the true Ministers are Ordained by God and Jesus Christ I retort on him that we have nothing but his bare word for proof I did in my last with respect to Ordination advise him not to prevaricate nor evade but tell what Church of England it was from whence he and his Brethren first had their Ordination And the Reason I so advised him was because he said in his former We had Ordination in the Church of England before Rome departed from the Faith Upon which I asked him Whether it was a Protestant Church of England or a Popish that they had Ordination in before Rome departed from the Faith on which I advised him not to prevaricate nor evade but tell what Church of England it was And now he saith The Gospel was preached in this Island in the Primitive Times of Cristianity and that there were seven Bishops among the Britains at the time of St. Austin's Landing in Kent so that there was no need of going to Rome for Ordination But what 's this to the purpose