out of heauens gates and suffer Inquisitions persecutions excommunications and what not so among vs you must believe Scripture as interpreted by the Church of England or you are condemned by them you must believe Scripture as interpreted by the Presbyterians or you are accursed by them you must believe as Anabaptists do or you are damn'd by them and not one Congregation among vs but would root all the others out of the world if it could and wee do not feare that danger wherof S. Paul Gal. 5.15 warns vs If wee bite and devour one an other let 's take heed wee be not consumed one of an other giving vs likewise a holsom advice in the same place how to prevent this euil Stand fast in the libertie wherewith Christ has made vs free and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage The world did groan vnder this heauy yoke in Popery wherin our Rule of faith was Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Church Scripture was kept from the hand of the flock no man permitted to give or believe any interpretation or sense of it but what the Pope Church and Fathers did approve our reason our judgments our consciences were slaves vnder this yoke vntill that God raised our glorious and blessed Reformers Luther Calvin Zuinglius Beza and others who tooke a holy Libertie and gave vâ— all libertie for to reade and interpreâ— Scripture to believe no Doctrin buâ— what wee judged to be true by Scripture to believe any sense of it which wee judged to be true tho contrary to all thâ— world they tooke for their Rule of faitâ— Scripture and nothing else but Scripturâ— as each one of them vnderstood it thiâ— same Rule of faith they left to vs and â— holy freedom and libertie of our judgments and consciences that any man oâ— sound judgment may hold and believâ— whatever sense of it he thinks to bâ— true This therefore is the scope and end oâ— my following Treatise that wheras ouâ— Rule of faith as J will prove by thâ— vnanimous coÌ„sent of our whole Reformed Church is Scripture or Gods Wriâ—ten Word as interpreted by each persoâ— of sound judgment that wheras bâ— the Principles of our Reformation nâ— man is to be constrained to believe anâ— Doctrin against his judgment and conscience otherwise why were not we left in Popery it is impious tyranâ—cal and quite against the spirit of the Reformation to force vs by Acts of Parliaments Decrees of Synods invectives and persecutions of indiscreet Brethren to embrace this or that Religion that every one ought to be permitted to believe what he please if you think Bigamy to be the Doctrin of Scripture if you think by Scripture there is one Nature and four Persons in God if you think Transubstantiation to be true if you judge by Gods Word ther 's neither Purgatory nor Hell finally whatever you think to be the true sense of scripture you are bound as a true Reformed Child to believe it that it is quite against the spirit of the Reformation to censure oppose or blame the Doctrin or Tenets of any Congregation or of any Doctor of the Reformed Church because that any Doctrin professed by any Christian Congregation whatever the Popish excepted or that ever was delivered by any man of good judgment of the Reformation since the beginning of it vntill this day is as truly and really the Doctrin of the Reformation as the Figurative Presence or kings supremacy is Consequently Protestants are deservedly to be checkt for persecutinâ— Quakers Quakers for murmuring againâ— Presbyterians these for their invectivâ— against Anabaptists and Socinians Aâ— are very good and you may lawfully according the Principles of our Reformâ—tion believe them or deny them This Evangelical libertie of believinâ— any thing which we judge to be the senâ— of scripture tho all the rest of the worlâ— should judge it to be a blasphemie the most distinctive sign of the Refoâ—mation from Popery for Papists are thâ— Children of Agar the slave they livâ— in bondage and constraint to believe at Doctrin which the Pope and Church prâ—poses to them and if a learned man â— vniversity should judge it to be contraâ— to Scripture he must submit his judgment to that of the Pope or be coâ—demn'd as an Heretic in our Reformâ—tion wee are the Children of Sara tâ— Free our Rule of faith is Scripture â— each Person of sound judgment in thâ— Church vnderstands it if wee do nâ— like the Doctrin of the Pope Church â— Council wee may gainsay them all anâ— hold our own sense of Scripture â— enjoy the Prerogative of Rational creâ—tures we are lead by our own reason which God has given vs for our conduct and are not like Beasts constrained to follow that of others Wee follow the Rule given vs by S. Paul Rom. 14. He who eates let him not despise him who does not eate and he who does not eate let him not despise him who does eate for God hath received him that 's to say he who believes let him not check him who does not believe as he does and he who does not believe let him not blame him who does believe but let each one believe or not believe as he thinks best in the Lord This holy libertie and freedom is the Spirit of God for where the Spirit of God is there is libertie 2. Cor. 3. saies the great Apostle The Lord inspire to our Parliament that now sitâ— vpon a perfect and new settlement of Gouvernment and Religion to follow the footsteps of our first renowned Reformers to enact that there may be no other Rule of faith but that which we received from our Reformers and which is laid down for vs in the 39 Articles of the Church of England that is Scripture as each one best vnderstands it without regarding the judgment sense or interpretation of any but the pure Word of God as we vnderstand it and to enact Penal Laws against any so bold and vncharitable as to censure or blame the Tenets of any Congregation be it Lutheranism Presbyterie Arianism Judaism or Paganism or any Doctrin whatever that any man of sound judgment thinks in his conscience to be the sense and Doctrin of Scripture Three things make me hope that this Treatise will be wellcom to the well inclined and pious Reader of our Reformed Church first that there is not one author quoted in this booke but our own Doctors learned and godly Children of the Reformation and this J observe that my Reader may know ther 's not a Jot of any Doctrin heer but what is of the Reformation and also advertise our Writers and Schoole men how much they discredit our Reformed Church by makeing so much vse of Popish Drs and Bookes in their Writings as if wee had not great and learned men of our own if wee looke into our Bishops and Ministers libraries wee shall meet but books either of confessedly Papists or strongly suspected of Popery and you shall hardly
interpreted by the Pope and CoÌ„ciâ— my Religion must be Scripture as intâ—preted by the Lutheran Church aâ— no other my judgment and Conscieâ— therefore is as much constrained as tâ— of the Papist and our separation frâ— Popery will com to be but an exchanâ— of one slavery for another in thâ— our judgments and Consciences wâ— slaves to the Pope and Councils â— this we are slaves to the Lutheâ— Church We became a Reformatâ— by shaking of the yoke of Popâ— from our judgments and leaving thâ— free for to belieue Scripture as wâ— the assistance of Gods spirit each oâ— best vnderstands it and if we â— continue a Reformation we must â— submit again our judgments to aâ— other but retain that blessed liberâ— we recouered for to belieue the Teâ— of any Congregation I confess this â—bertie is not allowed by any one pâ—ticular Congregation as you obserâ— but you must also grant me that â— allowed taken by the whole bodâ— of the Reformation for in this whoâ— body as it comprehends Protestants Lutherans Presbyterians c. one CoÌ„gregation believes what the other denies and in any of them a man may live with a safe Conscience which you will not denie therefore any man has full libertie for to believe or deny with a safe Conscience the Tenets of any Congregation hence it follows and to my grief I speake it that no particular Congregation be it of England France or Germanie has the true spirit of the Reformation in doting so much vpon their particular Tenets as to thinke they cannot be as well denied as believed and in looking vpon them with so passionat eys as to censure check and force others to believe them you shall see by this discourse that the true spirit of the Reformation is not in any one particular Congregation separatly taken from the rest for each particular Congregation constrains as much as it can all people to believe its own Tenets Protestancy would have vs all to be Protestants and would root Lutherans out of the world as well as Popery Lutherans would if they could draw all to their own Nett Presbytery esteems itself to be the best of all would crush Protestancy if it could This then iâ— the spirit of each particular Congregation a Limiting confining spirit to som particular Tenets with an exclusion of all others but looke on the whole Body of our Reformation aâ— it includes all Reformed Congregations distinct from Popery there iâ— a holy extension of spirit and libertie for to be either Lutherans Presbyteriants Protestans and any thing but Popery and whatever any Congregation may say of an other but all vnanimously agree that the spirit of the Lord is in the whole body of the Reformation since therefore that in this whole Body there is a latitude libertie for to profess divers and oppositâ— Tenets and that each Tenet is believed by one and denied by others we must grant that this holy libertie for to believe or deny any Tenets we please is the true spirit of our holy reformation It 's not therefore to be wisht as you do that I should stick to any one particular Congregation or Tenets for such a restriction is meer Popery and your bemoaning the multiplicity of our Congregations is profane and Popish No it s a blessing of the Lord vpon our Reformation for which we shall never sufficiently thank him that we see it divided into so many Godly branches In the house of my father said Christ there are many mansions Joan. 14.2 Ismael By your discourse you seem to allow that we may with a safe conscience change Religions as often as we please and be to day a Protestant to morrow à Lutheran next day a Presbyterian and so run ouer all Isaac I know you will be startl'd at my answer for J am not ignorant that all men apprehend it to be absurd to change run ouer so many religions but truth must be declared though it may seem a scandal to the Iews and a folly to the Gentils It s therefore the Doctrin of the Reformation that we may with a safe conscience be to day Protestanrs to morrow Lutherans in France Hugonots in Hungarie Antitrinitarians in Poland Socinians ad in London of any Religion but Popery Ismael For shame you fouly imposâ— vpon the Reformation ther 's not anâ— Congregation that teachs such à scandalous and absurd Doctrin Isaac By your favor I loue thâ— Reformation as the apple of my eye and will never yield to any in my zealâ— for its honor and doctrin J am so faâ— from imposing upon it that I will evidence your error in denying this to bâ— its Doctrin and it will appear thaâ— whoever will deny it to be very lawful to change Religions as time and occasion requires must renounce the besâ— and fundamental Principles of our Reformation must impiously condemâ— the practise of our first Reformers Ismael How will you make it ouâ— that this Doctrin is grounded vpoâ— the fundamental Principles of our Reformation wheras there is not onâ— Congregation of ours but abhorrs it Isaac Sr. You may well perceive by the tenor of my discours that J am piously and charitably iealous with each particular Congregation thaâ— my drift is to shew that each of them none excepted swerves from and transgresses against the true spirit and solid Principles of the Reformation as wiâ—l further appear in this discours It s vâ—contestedly true that the Rule of faith of the Reformation is Scripture as the humble of heart assisted with the spirit of the Lord vnderstands it for Lutherans will never admit their Rule of faith to be Scripture as interpreted by the Church of England but as interpreted by themselves nor will England admit Scripture to be their Rule of faith as it is interpreted by the Presbyterians but as interpreted by the Church of England so that the Doctrin of each Congregation is but Scripture as interpreted by them and wheras all these Congregations joyntly compose the whole Body of the Reformation and each Congregation is truly a member of the Reformation the Doctrin of the Reformation coms to be Scripture as each Congregation and person of sound judgment in the Reformation saies the Church of England in her 39. Artic. interprets it This being an vncoÌ„trouled truth what man of euer so sound a judgment but may read to day Scripture as interpreted by the Lutheran Church and judge in his conscience that interpretation and Doctrin to be true consequently he may with a safe conscience profess that Religion soon after he may meet Calvins bookes charm'd with the admirable strength of his reasons and glosses vpon Scripture he may judge in his conscience he is to be preferr'd beforre Luther and so may lawfully forsake Lutheranism for Calvinism then again he hits vpon Scripture as interpreted by the Church of England whose Doctrin ravish's him with that decencie of Ceremonies that majesty of her lyturgie that harmonie of her Hieraâ—chie
swerued from the spirit and holyness of the Reformation which hauing no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it it 's Spirit and holyness consist in framing our life and Doctrin to that Rule as our blessed Reformers and Reformation in its beginning did believing those Tenets which you call Errors and blasphemy and liuing that life which you call Dissolution and corruption of Manners because they judge by Scripture as they vnderstood it that Doctrin and manner of life was true innocent and good and if you like it as they did you may believe and liue as they did and be a good Child of the Reformation consider I pray all the works and Doctrin of Luther the like I say of our other first Reformers the three parts of his Doctrin is against Popery and They say all are Heresies and blasphemies the rest is contrary to the Church of England and she saies this is also Errors and blasphamie so you conspire with the Papists to destroy the credit of our first and best Reformer and betwixt you both you vnplume him of all his Feathers and leaue him not a bit of good Doctrin But I will stand to the Spirit and Principles of the Reformation and Congregations as now they are since that you do so much boast of its purity and great Perfections and I will prove that Doctrin and manner of life may be believed and followed lawfully standing to its Principles for if the Spirit of the Reformation be at present among vs wee must not be forced as in Popery to believe against our proper judgments what others believe by Scripture to be ttue and holy but what each one thinks in his own conscience to be such because even now at present our Rule of faith is Scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it and this is the same Rule which Luther and the Reformation in its beginning had this holy libertie is the best iewel the greatest perfection and most glorious prerogative the Reformation has if therefore now at present any man judges by scripture that he can marry ten wyves at a time that he can kill his owne son as Abraham intended that he may commit incest with his own Daughter as Lot did that there is no sin but incredulity as Luther believed nor any Mysterie of the Trinitie of Persons in one nature as Calvin believed with what justice can the Church of England say a man does not believe and live as becometh a Reformed Child or that his Doctrin and life is scandalous wheras he lives and believes as he vnderstands by Scripture he may or ought to do which is the Rule of faith of the Reformation even of the Church of England the Church of England saies the Lutheran Doctrin of the real Presence is not the Doctrin of Scripture that the Presbyterian Doctrin against Episcopacy is not the Doctrin of Scripture that the Anabaptist Doctrin against infants Baptism is not of Scripture and yet you permit them all to live in peace you confess they are true Children of the Reformation tho dissenters from you why because they follow Scripture as they vnderstand it and this is our Rule of faith and why will not you say the belief and life of that other man is also of the Reformation tho absurd it may seem to you since he believes and lives as he judges by Scripture he may it follows therefore plainly that this is the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael I confess our Rule of faith in the Reformation is Scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it but you cannot doubt but that its needfull to moderat and curb this libertie or it may run too farr for if every man be lycenc't to believe and teach every thing he fancies to be according Scripture as there is no Doctrin so execrable but som ignorant Reader may hit vpon a text which ill vnderstood may seem to favor it so there will be none but may be believed and called the Doctrin of the Reformation for example Beza teaches and saies its also the Doctrin of Calvin Saumaize and Geneve that the Lords supper may belawfully administer'd in any kind of victuals as well as in bread and wine in Eges flesh fish c. Where there is no bread and wine saies he wee may duly celebrat if insteed of them we vse what wee vsually eate and drink And again in the same place If there be no water at hand and that baptism ' cannot be with edification differed I would baptize in any other liquor Isaac and why should not it be lawfull to any Reformed to believe this wheras its Scripture as interpreted by a man of so sound a judgment but I do not in any wise like that opinion of yours and of the Church of England that its convenient to limit and curb mens judgments least they may run too farr this is the Policy of Rome They will not permit an arbitrary interpretation of Scripture alleadging forsooth for inconveniencie the multitude of absurd Doctrins which the word would swarm with if such a libertie were granted No No far be it from any true Reformed Child to mislike or blame that all people should interpret Scripture and believe what they judge by it to be true and if what the judge to be true should seem to you fals and scandalous do not you believe it but let them believe it and they will be of the Reformation because they follow our Rule of faith Ismael Luther Melancton Musculus Ochinus Beza and others teach the lawfullness of Bigamy or multiplicity of Wives and prove it with the example of Abraham Isaac and Jacob and Ochinus expounding the text of S. Paul It behoueth a Bishop to be a man of one Wife The prohibition saies he is not to be vnderstood so that a Bishop should have but one wife at a time for certainly he may have many but S. Paul's meaning is that he ought not to have too many wyves at a time that 's to say ten or twentie Isaac And will you deny this to be the Doctrin of the Reformation wheras its Scripture as interpreted by men of so eminent and sound a judgment Ismael The synod of Geneve and the Ecclesiastical Disciplin of France printed at Saumure has decreed that a wife whose husband is a long time absent may have him called by the public Cryer and if within a competent time he does not appear without any further enquiry the Minister may lycence her to marry an other or marry her himself Isaac J say all honest Women may practise this Doctrin without scruple or shame wheras its Scripture as interpreted by that thrice holy synod but let seamen beware how they undertake long voyages for feare their Wyves may take other husbands in their absence Ismael Luther teachs its lawfull to a wife if her husband does not please her to call her
in the Catholic Doctrin of the Church of England pag. 103. which is but an exposition of the 39. Articles Our Rule of faith is but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment in the Church vnderstands it Authority is given to the Church and to each person of sound judgment in it to judge in Controversies of faith and this is not the privat judgment of our Church but also of our Brethren of forreign Countries Ismael J confess not only these but many other Drs abet your discourse and the General Vogue of our Reformation is for Scripture as each one vnderstands it but alas you see well that wee can never settle any Religion or Church by such a Rule of faith Isaac You can never settle any but rhis That every man may without leâ— or hinderance believe what he please and why should not this be a good Religion if Scripture as each one vnderstands it be not our Rule of faith if we must be constrained to believe Scripture not as wee vnderstand it but as it is vnderstood by this or that Congregation whâ— difference betwixt vs and Papists They must believe Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Councilâ— have ever so much light from God be ever so wise and witty you muâ— depose your own judgment aâ— submit to that of the Pope Counciâ— and Popish Church to this pass â— are come also wee must believe tâ— kings supremacie Episcopacy Fâ—gurative presence tho perhaps we dâ— not judge by Scripture it be trâ— Doctrin wee are constrained by Penal laws and Acts of Parliament tâ— believe them as Papists by the Inquisition and why because thâ— Church of England vnderstands bâ— Scripture its true and if you replâ— you do not interpret Scripture sâ— you 'l not be heard you must submiâ— and believe against your judgment and what 's this but plain Popish Tyrany ouer mens consciences Did Luther and Calvin forsake the Pope and Councils for to submit their judgments to any other No but to follow Scripture as each one of them vnderstood it and tho Luther was a man raysed by God and replenisht with his spirit to repair the ruins of the Church yet Calvin did no more submit to him than Luther did to the Pope nor did Zuinglius submit to Calvin but followed his own sense of Scripture nor did Oecolampadius submit to Zuinglius but every one searched the Scripture believed and taught what they thought to be true and thus we became a Reformation of Popery if therefore we will continue a Reformation and walk by the spirit of our first blessed Reformers wee must not be constrained to believe any mans sense of Scripture we must believe whateuer we think to be true and have no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each one vnderstands it Ismael And what then what do you inferr from this discourse Isaac This consequence that wheras no true Child of the Reformation be he of what Congregation you will can justly deny our Rule of faith to be Scripture as any Person of sound judgment interprets it it follows vnauoidably that the Doctrin of the Reformation is Whatever any Person of sound judgment interprets to be the true sense of Scripture and whatever Luther Calvin Beza or any other of sound judgment in the Reformation since its first ryse vntill this day taught to be the true sense of Scripture is to be called and esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation tho to others of this or that Congregation it may seem to be wicked and scandalous Doctrin And now let me answer to an objection you made against this Principle in our entrance to this discourse you objected that many Papish Drs and Casuists delivered scandalous and base Doctrins which the Papists will not admit to be the Doctrin of their Church tho deliverd by Papish Drs and thence you pretended that the particular sentiments of privat Drs of the Reformation are not to be called the Doctrin of our Church But be pleased to observe the difference betwixt Popery and our Reformation the Rule of faith in Popery is Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Council or their Church they will admit no other consequently no Doctrin is to be called Popery but what is judged by the Pope and his Church or Council to be the sense of Scripture and if any Dr or Universitie holds any sense contrary to theirs it is to be called the Doctrin of that particular person and not the Doctrin of the Popish Church because their Rule of faith is not Scripture as interpreted by any Person of sound judgment but as interpreted by their Pope and Council But wheras our Rule of faith in the Reformation is Scripture as each person of sound judgment interprets it whatever Doctrin or sense is said by any man to be of Scripture is justly to be called the Doctrin of the Reformation for example Melancton a man of sound judgment great learning and of an vpright conscience taught Bigamy to be the Doctrin of scripture Beza taught the Lords supper might be administer'd in any kind of victuals as well as in bread and wine Calvin taught that Christ despaired on the Cross and suffered the pains of hell after his death why then let all the Bishops and Universities of England condemn this Doctrin let all the Synods of France and Germany decry it the Doctrin will be still of the Reformation because its Scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment Ismael The heate of your discourse has tyred you and my memorie iâ— sufficiently loaden with what yoâ— have said let me digest it in my privat retirement and wee will meeâ— again Isaac Content carrie with yoâ— these three points which I have proved convincingly first our Rule of faith is Scripture not as interpreted by this or that but by anâ— man of sound judgment secondly iâ— follows hence that the Doctrin of thâ— Reformation must be and ought to be called whatever any man of sound judgment saies is the sense of scripture thirdly it follows wee may change Religions as often as wee please III. DIALOGUE ISMAEL I remember well the summary of your last discourse given me in three points and I find the second to be absurd and repugnant to reason you 'l neuer perswade it tho you have pleaded for it with great energy what if a silly Woman Cobler or other tradesman reade Scripture and giue their sense of it that forsooth must be called the Doctrin of the Reformation and it shall be lawfull for them to believe it against the Doctrin of the whole Church Isaac Do not limit Gods infinit goodness by measuring his mercies towards his Creatures with your narrow apprehensions take notice he saies he has chosen the weake and contemptible of the world for to confound the strong ones I confess vnto you Father that you have hid thesâ— things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them to the little ones And therefore he choosed poore simple
that all and each Tenet which J rehearsed in all my former discourses are consormable to our Rule of faith for our Rule is Scripture as each man of sound judgment vnderstands it our Doctrin therefore must be what any Person of sound judgment vnderstands to be the Doctrin of Scripture This is an evident sequele out of that Principle and wheras there is not one Tenet of all those which J rehearsed whether they concern Doctrin or Manners but was judged by the Doctors which J cited for it to be the Doctrin of Scripture it follows vnauoiably that there is not one Tenet of them but is the Doctrin of the Reformation therefore you must be forced to either of these two either to say that our Rule of faith by which such Doctrins are warranted is naught wicked and scandalous and leads to a prostitution of consciences and Manners or that all those Tenets are good sound pious and no prostitution or corruption of our consciences for pick and choose out the Doctrin which you think to be the most wicked and scandalous of all those J rehearsed you cannot deny but that it was taught by the author J quoted for it and judged by him to be the Doctrin of Scripture and if no Doctor hitherto had believed it you or J or som other person of sound judgment may judge it to be the Doctrin of Scripture either of both then you must be constrained to grant or that the Doctrin of the Reformation is not what each Person of sound judgment vnderstands to be the Doctrin and sense of Scripture which is as much as to say that our Rule of faith must not be Scripture as wee vnderstand it but that wee must believe against our own judgment and conscience what others say is the Doctrin and sence of Scripture or you must grant that all and each of those Tenets J rehearsed is the Doctrin of the Reformation tho you or this or that man may judge them to be blasphemies and scandals Ismael J confess our Rule of faith in the Reformation is Scripture as each Person vnderstands it for all our Reformed Churchs with the Church of England inher 39. Articles do giue vs this Rule of faith I confess consequently out of this Principle that wee must not believe what Doctrin or sense of Scripture others judge to be true and orthodox if wee do not ourselues judge it to be such for wee must not be forced to believe against our judgments lastly I confess wee may safely believe whatsoeuer Doctrin wee seriously judge to be Doctrin of Scripture but prouided that such a Tenet or Doctrin be not plainly against Scripture and be not plain and downright impiety and blasphemie Isaac And in case you or the Church of England Rome France or Germany judges a Doctrin to be blasphemous and against Scripture and Luther or Calvin or J or an other judges it is good Doctrin and conformable to Scripture to which judgment must J stand must J believe yours against my Conscience and knowledge or must not J believe my own is it not the Principle and practice of our Reformation that J must believe what J judge in my conscience to be Scripture and not what others judge if they judge the contrarie when Luther began the Reformation did not almost all Christians and the whole Church believe Purgatorie and Prayers to saints to be the Doctrin of Scripture and did not he very commendably deny it against them all because he judged by Scripture it was not will a Presbyterian believe Episcopacy because the Church of England saies its the Doctrin of Scripture no but deny it because himsef judges it is not Ismael It s true each one may lawfully believe what himself judges to be the Doctrin of Scripture prouided he be a godly wel intentioned man humble and meeke in Spirit provided secondly that what he vnderstands to be the sense and Doctrin of Scripture be not absurd and impious in the judgment of all the rest of the faithfull for let a man be euer se learned and godly if he gives an interpretation of Scripture which is denied by all the Church he must not be followed Isaac Your first Prouiso is very good and J hope you will meet no Doctor of all those J quoted for those Tenets which you call blasphemies who was not a learned godly humble and well intentioned man who will be so bold as to deny it of Luther Calvin Beza Zuinglius c. Your second Proviso is not just and in it you ouerthrow the whole Reformation and our Rule of faith for this being as you granted Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vndestands it whateuer interpretation or sense any man of sound judgment vnderstands to be of Scripture he may safely and piously believe it tho all the rest of the world should judge it to be impious and blasphemous otherwise our Rule of faith must not be Scripture as wee vnderstand it but as it is vnderstood by others and wheras no Tenet of all those J rehearsed but was judged to be the sense and Doctrin of Scripture by som of those eminent Drs. I quoted it follows they might have safely believed them and if you or J judge as they did wee may also believe as they did and be still of the Reformation Ismael It 's wicked and pernicious to say any particular Person may believe his own privat sense and interpretation of Scripture if it be judged by all others to be naught and therefore the Church of England prudently and wisely puts a stop and bridle to the extravagant and rambling imaginations of particular Persons they must conform themselves and believe but what the Church judges may be safely believed Isaac Pray Sr. since when is it cōmendable to constrain mens judgments to believe not what each one thinks best but what the Church thinks may be safely believed was this commendable in the beginning of our Reformation when our blessed Reformers began to teach their privat judgments against the Church then establisht if it was then the Church of Rome is to be commended for persecuting and excommunicating our first Reformers and if this was not nor is not commendable in the Church of Rome why is it commendable in the Church of England this is a peece of Popery wherof the Church of England is guiltie and for which all our Congregations are iealous of her be it knowen to you our other Congregations Lutherans Calvinists Anabaptists c. are as truly and godly Children of the Reformation as the Church of England and they will not submit to that Popish tyranny nor suffer any curb to their judgments but will have our Rule of faith to be but Scripture and each one to vnderstand and believe it as he thinks best in the Lord. Ismael J confess other Congregations will admit no such curb nor bridle to their judgments but follow Scripture as they vnderstand it but the Church of England has a
assured means for to know what sense of it he would have vs believe Ismael And what Religion shall J profess if J lay Scripture asyde Isaac The same which now you have by Scripture that 's to say whatever you judge to be the true Worship of God be sure to profess a reverence for Scripture and seem to believe its the Word of God least you may scandalize weake Brethren pretend allwaies that your sentiments are grounded vpon the Text but betwixt you and God believe whatever you think to be true worship God as you-judge he is to be worshipt and that 's the way to liue in peace do you think but that those Noble Spirits which they call the Wits of England have a good Religion in publick they speake reverently of the Bible but we know what they have and do declare in their privat discourses that it s but a Romance or meer fiction Do you think but that there was a Religion in England before it saw Gregori's Emissaries Austin and his Monks what need therefore of a Bible for to have Religion Were not the Swinfeldians a religious Congregation and of the Reformation to yet they cared not for Scripture but grounded their belief vpon Gods inspiration and inward speech to the heart Ismael If I were not well acquainted with you and had not very convincing proofes and signal testimonies of your pietie solid Religiosity and Christianity I would judge you by this last peece of your discourse to be an impious Atheist or Pagan and J wonder that so good a Christian as I know you to be should speake so irrevently of the Bible and so much in commendation of Paganism as you do There was indeed a Religion in England before they knew what Scripture was but that Religion was Paganism which Austin and his Companions happily banisht from our Land Isaac Happily do you call an exchange of Paganism for Popery introduced by Austin a Happiness is it not generally believed in our Reformation and most strongly proved of late by that incomparable Wit and Pen-man Doctor Stillingfleet that Popery has as much of Idolatry as Paganism our land therefore had in Paganism as good a Religion as it received by Austin in Popery does not this our noble Champion and most of the Scribes of the Church of England teach that Popery is a saving Religion that we may be saued in the Church of Rome if Popery not withstanding it be Idolatrie as they say be a saving Religion how can they deny but that Paganism is also a saving Religion what need had our Forefathers therefore to abandon Paganism why was it not left in the land Ismael Whatever may be said of Popery it cannot be denied but that Christianity is better than Paganism the expulsion therefore of Paganism by Austin was a Happiness because by it Christianity was introduced and establisht in our Kingdom Isaac Alas Ismael if England had bin as well informed of the merit of Paganism when first Christianity was preached it had never exchanged the one for the other Ismael What not Paganism which adored a Multitude of Gods for Christianity which adores but one Not Paganism which adored Iupiter Saturn Venus c. who were Deuils and Evil Spirits or wicked Men who caused themselves to be adored for Christianity which adores the onely true immortal and eternal Deytie Isaac You speake with the vulgar sort and believe as you have bin instructed by your Ancestors I confess the Apostles and Ancient Doctors of Christianity do teach that the Gods of the Gentils were Deuils or Euil Spirits I confess also all the Christian World since the first preaching of the Ghospell was so perswaded grounded vpon Scripture which in several places saies the Gods of the Gentils were Deuds grounded vpon the Doctrin of the Apostles and their Successors the Fathers of the Church and the World being perswaded by the Apostles by the Doctors Fathers and Preachers of Christianity that the Gods which the Pagans adored were but Deuils which by sorceries and marvelous works deceiued mankind and made themselves to be adored as Gods all men were ashamed to adore but Deuils forsooke Paganism and embraced Christianity And all was but a meer Policy of Popery to cast so much dirt and calumnie vpon Paganism and make its Gods but Deuils for to introduce and establish Christianity Dr. Stillingfleet in his Charge of Idolatry against the Chuâ—ch of Rome Pag. 40. and 41. saies plainly that the Pagans are charged with more than they were guilty of page 7. saies that Iupiter adored by the Pagans was so farr from being an Arch-Devil in the opinion of S. Paul that he was the tru God blessed for ever more that the Pagans adored but one suprem and Omnipotent God which they called Jupiter and which they did believe to be neither a Devil nor a Man but a true and the first and chiefest of the Gods and that the rest of the Gods which they adored they looked vpon them as vpon Inferior Deyties and gave them no other adoration but such as the Papists give to their Saints If therefore the Pagans adored the tru God under the name of Jupiter and the other Gods but as inferior Deyties as the Papists do their Saints was it not injustly don by the Ancient Fathers and Teachers of Christianity to have imposed vpon the World and made vs believe the Pagans adored but Devils and Evil Spirits have not the Pagans Ryght and justice on their syde for to pleade before our wyse and religious Parliament that Paganism may be restored or at least tolerated and Iupiter with the rest of the Gods may be adored as formerly they were first because Paganism is no more Jdolatry than Popery as Dr Stillinfleet Mr Burnet and other Reformed Writers prove convincingly secondly because that Paganism having bin banisht out of our Land vpon the fals information of our first Teachers that it was an Adoration of Devils or Evil Spirits and wicked debaucht Men who by counterfeited wonders and cheate gained the Peoples adoration since that Dr Stillingfleet Mr. Burnet and other Reformed Writers will make it out that the Pagans adored no Devils but One tru Omnipotent suprem God blessed evermore which they called Iupiter and the rest of the Gods as inferior Deities as Papists do their Saints and will prove that the Pagans were charged by the first DDrs of Christianity and by all our Ancestors with more than they were guilty of why should not Paganism be restored again to the Land and heard to speake for itsselfe and Dr Stillingfleet and his zealous companions be lycenc't to pleade for them and for holy Iupiter so fouly misrepresented by Antiquity as to be believed an Arch-Devil whom Dr. Stillingfleet will prove to have bin a tru God blessed for ever more Ismael The more J discourse with you the more J am perplexed in mind J bid you a Dieu and do confess J carry with me from your discourse a dislike of what
they please Lutherans Protestants Presbyterians c. have all for their Rule of faith Scripture which each of them interprets in a different sense Luther for the Real Protestants for the Figurative Presence Protestants for Episcopacy Presbyterians against it and so of others and tho each esteems his own sense to be the best yet none is so bold as to say the others may not be saved in their own sense of it or deny them to be true Children of the Reformation nay that Venerable Synod of Charenton as I quoted aboue has declared that the Lutherans tho opposit to them in their chief Tenets are their beloved Brethren and have nothing Idolatrous or superstitious in their manner of Divin worship the fundamental reason of all this is that our Rule of faith is but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it Ismael I grant all your discourse as to this particular for its certain Lutherans will not admit Scripture as interpreted by Protestants but as interpreted by themselves and so of each other Congregation Isaac If you admit our Rule is Scripture as each vnderstands it then you must grant that our Doctrin of the Reformation is whateuer Doctrin each Person of sound judgment vnderstands to be of Scripture and from this it appears plainly that my Principle wherat you bogl'd is true That whateuer Doctrin is professed by any of our Congregations Synods Parliaments Drs. or particular Dr. of our Reformation is to be truly reputed and esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation which Principle being true my discourse of yesterday is vndeniable that you may change religions as often as you please and remain still a true Reformed Child Ismael But you haue said that not only the Doctrin of each Congregation and Synod is the Doctrin of the Reformation but also whateuer any one particular Doctor teachs and this seems to be very absurd Isaac It 's not so absurd as it is true I 'l prove by the Principles of our Reformed Church by the testimonies of our most Learned and Best Drs. and Reformers and by reason and experience that the Doctrin of any particular Doctor among vs has as much right to be called and esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation as Protestancy Presbytery or Lutheranism for what is Lutheranism but the judgment of Luther a particular Dr against the whole Church of Rome what is Calvinism but what Calvin a particular Dr judged to be the sense of Scripture against that same Church what is Quakery but honest Naylor's godly and pious sentiments vpon Scripture It s vndeniably the Principle of our Reformed Church that our Rule of faith is Scripture as interpreted not only by Synods or Congregations but by any Person of sound judgment in the Church No Congregation or Synod is to vs a Rule of faith because all are fallible but Gods Written Word as each one vnderstands it and if wee do not like the sense of it delivered by any Council Synod or Congregation wee may safely deny it therefore our great Calvin saies and proues with great energy of Scripture and reason that we are not obliged to the Decisions and Doctrin of any Council Synod or Congregation if after hauing examined Scripture we do not find their interpretation and sense of it is conformable to the Word of God Let Synods and Congregations say what they will if any particular Doctor thinks his own privat sense of it to be better he may stick to it against them all and be a good true Child of the Reformation as Arminius in Holland did withstand the Synods of Dordreet and Delpht as Luther and Calvin did against Rome I will be free saies our vnparalleld Proto-Apostle Luther I wil◠not submit my self to the authority of Councils Church Drs Vniuersities or Fathers but will teach and preach whateuer I think to be true Did ever any Apostle speake with more courage and the blessed man acted with no less he knew full well the whole Stream of antiquity Drs Fathers and Councils were against him as he confesses himself and dit not care a rus◠for them all Lay aside saies he ◠arms of Orthodox antiquity of School◠of Diuinity authority of Fathers Councils Popes and consent of ages we receiue nothing but Scripture but s◠that we must haue the authority of interpreting it Nor was it only Luther and Calvin spoke thus but all our first blessed Reformers and why because our Rule of faith is Scripture not a interpreted by the Church of England France will not admit it nor as interpreted by the Quakers the Anabaptists and Independents will not heare it nor as interpreted by Luther Calvin rejects it nor as interpreted by Calvin Thorndic and Bramhal will not yield to it nor will Stillingfleet stand to their interpretation nor others to that of Stillingfleet Finally our Rule of faith is Scripture not as interpreted by any but as each Congregation Synod particular Dr or man of sound judgment interprets it and consequently what ever Doctrin any man of sound judgment judges to be of Scripture is to be esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation and you may safely believe it if you like it and remain still as truely a Reformed Child as the proudest Protestant of England Ismael Can you prove that our Rule of faith is Scripture as any particular Dr or person of sound judgment vnderstands it Isaac Behold how convincingly first wee have heard Luther quoted but now say We receive nothing but Scripture but so as that we must have the authority for t◠interpret it hear him again Th◠Governors and Pastors haver powe t◠teach but the sheep must give thei◠judgment whether they propose the voy◠of Christ or of strangers And again Christ has taken from the Bishops Councils and Pastors the right of judging of Doctrin and given it to all Christians i◠General and the Rule is Scripture ◠each one will think fit to interpret i◠And consequently to this wee hav◠heard him say aboue I will be fi◠and will not submit to Drs Councils ◠Pastors but will teach whatever think to be true Barlow The Apostles have given to each particular t◠Right and power of interpreting a◠judging by his inward spirit what i◠True its needless that either man ◠Angel Pope or Council should instru◠you the spirit working in the heart an◠Scripture are to each particular person mo◠assured interpreters Bilson Bishop o◠Wincester saies the same The peopl◠must be discerners and judges of wha◠is taught Our Religion has no othe◠Rule of faith saies our French Reformation by the mouth of Dumoulin Drelincourt and the holy Synod of Charenton but the Written Word of God as interpreted by vs. Lastly saies the Church of England in the 6th Art of their 39. We have no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each person of sound judgment in the Church vnderstāds it and what is proved by it and again
taught expresly by Urbanus Regius Bucer Zuinglius Melancton Luther the Common Prayer book in king Edwards time printed 1549. and many others of our learned Drs and what can you call more properly the Doctrin of the Reformation than what such men teach to be the Doctrin of scripture And tho our Brethren Quakers Anabaptists Presbyterians and Protestants judge Prayers to Angels and Saints to be nothing else but Popery yet our Common Prayer booke has the same Collect or Prayer to Angels in S. Michael's day that the Popish Mass Book has and desires that the Angels may succour and defend vs on earth and prayers to and intercession of Saints is taught by Luther Bilneus and Latimer quoted by Fox and consequently its the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael If all these Popish Articles may be safely believed by the Reformation and be the Doctrin of our Reformed Church as well as of Popery what difference then betwixt vs and Popery or why are we called a Reformation of Popery or why did wee separat from them Isaac J have told you already that our difference from Popery is not because wee must deny what they believe for wee believe as well as they the Unity and Trinity of God the Jncarnation of his son c. but in this that the Papists believe because the Pope and Church saies this is true revealed Doctrin but wee believe not because any Church Pope or Doctor saies so but because wee ourselves judge by scripture it is so for if a Papist did say I do not believe this is a revealed Truth because the Pope and Church saies it is but because I find by scripture it is he would be no Papist believe then whatever Doctrin you will either Popery Iudaism Protestancy Arianism or what else you please provided you judge by scripture it is true and that you believe it not because this or that Church Congregation or Drs believe it but because yourself judges it to be true you 'l be a true Child of the Reformation And this is the reason why wee are called a Reformation and why wee separated from them because they would haue vs take for our Rule of faith Scripture as interpreted by them and believe not what wee judge to be the Doctrin of Scripture but what they judge and this is also the Reason why Ptesbyterians are jealous with the Church of England why Anabaptists forsake Presbyterians why these are forsaken by Quakers because each one would haue the world judge as they do and persecute and trouble one another which is quite against the Spirit of the Reformation for wher as our Rule of faith is no Church Congregation or man but Scripture as each one vnderstands it it follows that by our Principles every one must be permitted to believe whatever he pleases and by so doing he will be a true Child of the Reformation Ismael The Church of England nor any of our Congregations will neuer believe any of those Popish Tenets Isaac The time may come that they may believe them all and be still as good Reformeds as now they are for if the Pope and his Church should to morrow deny and excommunicat those Tenets which now they so stedfastly believe and I hope they will som day then it would be a pious and virtuous action in all Reformed Children to believe them all as much as now they deny them and let vs pretend what other reason wee please but it s very certain that the strongest reason wee can haue to deny those Articles is because the Pope and his Church believes them and consequently if the Popish Church would but deny them wee might and ought to believe them you will think this a Paradox but listen to our Apostolical and Divin Luther If a general Council saies he did permit Priests to marry it would be a singular mark of piety and sign of Godlyness in that case to take Concubins rather than to marry in conformity to the Decree of the Council I would in that case command Priests not to marry vnder pain of damnation And again saies he if the Council should decree Communion in both kinds in contempt of the Council I would take one only kind or none See these words of Luther quoted by our learned Hospinian and Jewel and see it s not only my Doctrin but of great Luther that in case the Pope and Council deny all the Tenets they now believe wee may and it will be a pious godly action to believe them and make as many Acts of Parliament for them as now wee have against them But what 's the matter me thinks you become pale som thing troubles you speake what i st Ismael It 's the horror J conceive against your discourse my countenance cannot be in a calm when my mind is in such a storm and confusion pursue no more you said enough that J should curse the day J haue euer seen you or heard that which you call Holy Liberty which is but a prostitution of Consciences a profanation of all that is sacred and an open gap to all impiety in Doctrin and manners but J hope the Lord has giuen me that profound respect and attache to our holy Reformation that I shall not be beatten from it by all your engines able to inspire a contempt and hatred of it to any weake Brother for who would liue a moment in it if such impious Tenets such sandalous and blasphemous Doctrins were of it or were vnauoidable sequeles out of its principles No No the Principles of the Reformed Church are sound and Orthodox and no Doctrin can follow from them but what 's pure and true Isaac Let me tell you J have as tender a loue for the Reformation as you and J will maintain the holy Libertie J assert cannot justly be called a prostitution of Consciences for you dare not deny but this is an Orthodox and sound Principle that our Rule of faith is Scripture as â—ach Person of sound judgement vnderstands it that it is lawfull for each person of sound judgment to reade it to giue his judgement of the true sense of it and to believe and hold that sense of it which he thinks in his Conscience to be true is there any prostitution of Consciences in this Doctrin or is it not the Doctrin of our Reformation Ismael All this in true the prostitution of consciences leyes not there but in the scandalous and blasphemous Tenets which you pretend that follow out of that Rule of faith Isaac But you wrong the Reformation in calling such Tenets blasphemies and scandals for since our Rule of faith is Scripture as each Person of soud judgment vnderstands it if this Rule of faith be good and sound if it be religious and holy any Doctrin that is conformable to this Rule must be good sound religious and holy this being our Rule of faith and manners it s cleerer than day light
reverent regard for the sense and interpretation of it given by the Primitive ages Fathers and Councils and that wee prefer before the privat interpretations of particular Persons Isaac And just so saied the Popish Church to Luther and our first blessed Reformers and if that had been well dâ—n wee should have had neither Protestancy nor any other Reformation but you confess at least that the Rule of faith in all other Congregations is but Scripture as each Person vnderstands it and each person may consequently believe his own sense of it and deny the sense of any other if he does not like it then you must confess that in all other Congregations except the Church of England any Reformed Child may believe any sense and Doctrin which any Person of sound judgment judges to be Scripture if himself likes it tho all the rest of the world may think it naught and wheras you cannot deny but that all and each Dr. quoted by me for those Tenets which you call blasphemies were sound and able judgments you must confess that it is a necessarie sequele out of their Rule of faith that in all other Congregations they may piously and safely believe all those Tenets and be still true Children of the Reformation Ismael J confess if they speake coherently and stand to their Principles they may believe them safely but as J hate those blasphemous Tenets I abhorr and detest also that Principle and Rule of faith of other Congregations from which such Tenets are vnavoidable sequeles Isaac Good Ismael you forget what you have hitherto all along avowed and you are quite astray from the Doctrin of the Reformation you have often granted me that our Rule of faith is Scripture not as this or that Congregation Doctor or Church but as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it and now you tell me you hate and detest that Rule because that out of it there follow strange and blasphemous Tenets you say the sense and interpretation of the primitive ages Church and Fathers must be prefered before the interpretation of any privat Person or Congregation and what think you of our whole Reformation and particularly of our 39. Articles of the Church of England which allow no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it what say you of Luther Calvin Beza and the rest of our first Reformers who preferred their own privat sense and interpretation of Scripture before that of the whole Church what say you to the Presbyterians who preferr their own sense and interpretation of the Bible before that of the Church of England what say you of all the Congregations of the Reformed Church each one of which holds its sense and Doctrin of Scripture different from all the rest I grant there ought to be a respect for the judgment and interpretation of the Text given by the Primitive Church and Fathers but if a Doctor or man of sound judgment replenisht with Gods Spirit reades Scripture with an humble heart and pure intention and judges by it that Bygamy is lawfull that there is no Mystery of three Persons in one Divin Nature that Christ despaired on the Cross c. tho these Doctrins be quite against the judgment of Fathers Church and Councils he may believe them and be still a true Reformed Child because he follows our Rule of faith and if he must deny these Articles because others decry them then he must go against his own judgement and conscience for to conform himself to them and his Rule of faith must not be scripture as each man of sound judgment vnderstands it but as the primitive Ages Church and Councils vnderstand it and this is Popery Ismael Prethy friend Jsaac let 's give ouer all that your discourse drives at by what J can perceive is either to beate me from the Reformation by shewing me the absurdity of its Rule of faith or oblige me to believe scandalous and blasphemous Tenets as necessary sequeles out of that Rule I am à Child of the Reformation and never will be otherwise Isaac The Lord who is the Searcher of hearts knows you misconster my intentions how can you say I inteÌ„d to beate you from the Reformation do not J insist and persuade you to stick fast to its Rule of faith and acknowledge no other but Scripture as you vnderstand it how can you say J oblige you to believe fals and scandalous Tenets to the contrary J advise you not to believe them if you judge by scripture they are fals and scandalous what my discourse drives at is that you should not censure blame or call any Doctrin blasphemous scandalous fals or heretical Popery excepted for tho you judge by Scripture it is not true an other will judge it to be the true sense and Doctrin of the Text and if he does he may with a safe conscience believe it and ought not to be blamed by you or any other for believing it if you do not like that Doctrin do not believe it but let the other believe as he judges by Scripture he may and let every tub stand on its own bottom Ismael Once more I besech you give ouer J will not discourse any more with you Isaac Nay Deare Ismael I see you are troubled and I will not leaue you in that perplexitie be pleased to listen to three points I will propose vnto you and you 'l not miss to find satisfaction in either of them Ismael Let 's heare them Isaac Will you believe Scripture as it is interpreted and in that sense which the Church Councils and Fathers propound vnto you Ismael J will not be obliged to that for I may judge by Scripture that sense and interpretation of it to be fals and erroneous and I will not be obliged to believe any thing against my judgment and conscience that is Popery Isaac That 's well in so much you follow the footsteps of Luther Calvin and our other fist Reformers who would not believe what the Church believed in their tyme nor regarded not what the Papists alleadged out of the Councils and Fathers against them because they held themselves obliged to believe Scripture as they vnderstood it and not as it was vndestood by others Will you then believe Scripture in that sense and interpretation which yourself judges to be true tho the Church Councils and all other Congregations judge it to be fals and erroneous and give the like libertie to all others Ismael That 's dangerous for it would follow that any man might believe without check or blame the greatest blasphemies imaginable if he judges them to be the sense of the Text. Isaac Why then since that the first does not please you for feare of constraining your judgment Papist-like and the second displeases you for the scope it gives for to believe any thing or nothing your best way will be to lay Scripture asyde wheras Christ has forgot or neglected to appoint vs som
commonly believed by the Protestans and Popish Church we believe in Jesus Christ the son of God of one and the same substance and nature with the Father they believe in a Jesus Christ son of God but of a distinct and different nature and substance from the Father Isaac Pish that 's but a nicetie believe what you please and what you vndestand by Scripture to be true and have charitie Ismael I confess you have puzzled but yet not wholy convinced me were I but perswaded that what you have discoursed is truly the Doctrin of the reformation J would cheerfully embrace it and J will be better informed by your self but not tyre your patience we will meet again and pursue our Discours vpon this subject II. DIALOGUE ISMAEL Reflecting in my solitude vpon your last discours J find it bottom'd vpon a fals principle for you suppose that what euer Doctrin is of Luther Calvin or any of our Learned Drs Synods Parliaments or Congregations is the Doctrin of the Reformation and may without any more proof or scruple be believed by any Reformed Child who but sees this is ridiculous to fasten the Doctrin and absurd opinions of each particular Dr or Congregation vpon the whole body this is the vncharitable and vnreasonable art of the Papists who keep a great coyl with som exorbitaÌ„t opinions of Luther and Calvin and would perswade their Proselyts they are the Tenets of the Reformation wheras the Reformation disclaims those opinions as much as the Pope does and they do not poore people observe how many absurd and scandalous Doctrins we meet in their Casuists and Divins which when we reproach them with they answer it s not the Doctrin of their Church but of som particular Drs as if we might not with as much justice as they answer the same Isaac Your reflection is good and my discours will fall to ground if I do not prove that principle which will be no hard task Let vs imagin we are heere a full synod of Protestants Presbyterians Hugonots Lutherans Antitrinitarians Anabaptists Quakers and of all and each of our Congregations our Reformation is not any of these Congregations with an exclusion of the rest but all of them ioyntly for whatsoeuer Congregation would say it self alone is the Reformation and no other would be hiss'd at by the rest and iustly because that our Reformation imports two points essentialâ—y first a Profession of Christianitie according the Rule of the Word of God and a detestation or abjuration of Popish Errors and none of these Congregations but does both Ismael I know som of these Pharisee like despise others and Looke upon them not as Refâ—rmed but as putrid members but the Lord forbid I should be so deuoid of charitie I see no just challenge any can have to the Title of Reformation which all haue not Isaac Let vs ask this synod by what Rule of faith does the Reformation walk what must a man believe for to be a true Reformed Protestants will say that Scripture and Apostolical Tradition but Protestants say of Papists and Presbyterians and Anabaptists say of Protestants that many human inventions are obtruded upon vs as Apostolical Traditions that we have no way to discern the one from the other and conâ—â—quently Tradition as being an vnknown thing vnto vs cannot be our Rule others will say that Scripture and the indubitable consequences out of it is our Rule all will grant this but then enters the Controversie if the consequences of Lutherans be such and if the consequences of Presbyterians be indubitable out of Scripture and each Congregation will say that their peculiar Tenets are indubitable consequences out of Scripture and the rest must allow it to be true or deny such a Congregation to be of the Reformation Others will say that Scripture and the four first General Councils with the Apostles and Athanasius's Creeds are our Rule of faith but most of the assembly will no more admit the four first than the subsequent Councils nor Athanasius his Creed more than that of Trent nor will the Quakers Socinians and others value the Apostles Creed But there is none of all the Assembly who will not admit Scripture that 's the pure written word of God to be a sacred and full Rule of faith because it s replenisht with Divin light and all Heavenly instruction necessarie for our saluation and such as ad as a part of our Rule of faith the Apostles or Athanasius his Creeds or the four first General Councils they will confess that all they containe is expressed in Gods written word and are but a plainer or more distinct expression or declaration of the Contents of Scripture Ismael Truly I must grant you this that I have been often present at severall discourses of Protestants with Papists and never yet could I heare a Protestant make Councils Tradition or any thing els the Test of their discours but onely scripture not but that I could heare them say and pretend in their discourses that Apostolical Tradition and the four first Councils were for them against Popery but still their main strength and vltimat refuge was Scripture for when ever they harp vpon that string of Tradition and Councils the Papists are visibly too hard for them and then they run to Scripture than which there is no plus vltra I have been also often at severall discourses betwixt Protestans Presbyterians and our brethren of other Congregations and have observed that the Protestant for to defend his lyturgie Rites and Ceremonies of the Church of England and her Episcopacy against the others could never defend himself by scripture alone and placed his main strength against them in Tradition Primitive Councils and ancient Fathers all which the others rejected and reproached the Protestant with Popery for making vse of that weapon that if thy would stick to those Principles as their Rule of faith they must admit many Tenets of Popery which they disavow that nothing but scripture is a sufficient warrant and Rule of faith And I find by all I could ever well vnderstand that its the General apprehension and belief of all the Reformation that Scripture abundantly contains all we are obliged to believe and is our sole and adequat Rule of faith and that our recours to Tradition Councils Fathers c. are but shifts of some of our Drs. who being Non plust in their particular engagements and Sophistries patch the incoherencie of their discours with these raggs of Popery Isaac I commend your ingenuity but not that heate which transports you to check our Drs for their glosses and particular Doctrins vpon Scripture which as the Manna relisht of all sorts of Victuals which the Eaterâ— fancied admits several senses according the different spirits and measure of light that God gives to the Reader and it is vndoubtedly the the Spirit of the Reformation to follow what sense of it he likes best and not to check others for following this or that as
Apostles men raised extraordinaryly by God and replenisht with his Spirit to teach vs the Ghospell and if wee be to seek for the pure and Orthodox Doctrin of the Reformation ought not wee to be said rather by Luther Calvin Melancton Zuinglius Beza and our other first Reformers than by a few Ministers and Bishops of England who tho they be wise and pious men yet they are not of that stamp as the others And if our present Congregations presume to correct them and say they ouerlasht in their Doctrin will not the Papists say if they have been such scandalous Masters and fals teachers why did you receive their Reformation and as they erred so grosly in such prime articles of Christianity why do not you feare and suspect they have also erred in the rest secondly the Papists will say if as they reformed vs you reform them then you must expect and permit that others may reform you and forsake your Doctrin as you forsake theirs Ismael I wish you could make out that the Reformation was in its full perfection in its beginning had you read som Writers of ours perhaps you would judge otherwise Musculus a learned Lutheran writes thus Thus it is with vs at present that if any be desirous to see a great rabble of knaues turbulent Spirits deceitfull persons Coseners and debauch men let him go to a Ciâ—ty where the Ghospel is purely preached and he shall find them by multitudes for its more manifest than the day light that never were there more vnbridled and vnruly people among the turks and other infidels than the Professors of the Reformed Ghospel Luther himself saies as much The world grows dayly worse and men are now more covetous revengefull and lycentious than they were in Popery Mr. Stubs sayes no less After my travells round about all England I found the people in most parts proud malicious ambitious and careless of good works Mr Richard Geferie in his Sermon at St. Pauls Cross printed in 1604. I may freely speake what I have plainly seen that in Flanders â—ever was there more drunkness in Italy more wantonnesâ— in lury more hypocrisy in Turkie more impiety in Tartary more iniquity than is practis'd generally in England and particularly in London Certainly our Reformation at present deserues a better caracter never did the Alehouses and Taverns complain more heauily of want of trading which is a proof of our Sobriety the Churches which we see a building in London is a good testimony of piety and we are so farr from any smack of hypocrisy that you shall not see in all London the least appearance of Virtue so hiddenly its kept from mortal Eyes but what you may meet in our honests Quakers Isaac I confess our Congregations as now they are are very good both in Doctrin and manners but I say also that the Doctrin and manners of our Reformation at its first beginning was as pure as holy and as true as now it is or ever it will be Nay supposing and granted their manners and Doctrin were so corrupt as those Drs. mention I say that amidst all those vices their life was as holy innocent blamless and pure as yours is now and that you may be convinc't of this truth know that Calvin expressy teachs Wee belieue the sins of the faithfull he means of the Reformation are but venial sins not but that they deserve death but because there is no damnation for the Children of Grace in as much as their sins are not imputed to them And again he saies Wee can assure ourselves wee can no more be damn'd for any sins than Iesus-Christ himself Luther is of the same opinion As nothing but faith doth justifiy vs so nothing but incredulity is a sin Again No sin is so great that it can condemn a man such as are damn'd are damn'd only for their incredulitie Whitaker No sin can hurt a man who has faith The same is taught by Wotten Fulk Tindal and Beza It s therefore the Doctrin of Scripture as interpreted by these Persons of great and sound judgment that incests murthers intemperance or whateuer else you call a sin incredulitie excepted either is no sin at all or but venial sins which do no harm nor cannot damn the children of the Reformation if therefore our Brethren lived in the beginning of the Reformation as those authors relate they liued according Scripture as interpreted to them by men of sound judgment and this being our Rule of faith and manners they did not ill but very well in following it Ismael They were men of the Reformation its true who taught these errors and dissolution of life and good manners in so much they swerued from the spirit holyness and purity of the Reformation and must not be believed nor commended looke vpon the Reformation as now it is and you will not find any such scandalous Doctrin or corruption of manners Isaac They were not only men of the Reformation but the greatest Oracles of it which you will not match with any of our present congregations and it s not pardonable in any Reformed Child to say such Oracles extrordinarily raised by God to teach the purity of the Ghospel should have taught either Errors in Doctrin or dissolution of manners they taught what in their conscience they vnderstood by Scripture to be true if you will not be so irreverent as to say that they were knaves Who spoke and taught against their conscience and knoâ—ledge Therefore they taught the Doctrin of the Reformation purely and truly the consequence is euidentâ— for what is the Doctrin of the Reformation but what wise learned men of sound judgment think and vnderstand by Scripture to be true why is figuratiue Presence the Doctrin of the Reformation tho denied by Lutherans who are Reformed also but because wise learned men judge by Scripture as they vnderstand it it s the true Doctrin or can you give me any other Rule of faith by which wee may know what Doctrin is of the Reformation and what not but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it or what Rule can you give for to know what is good or euil to be don but Scripture as vnderstood bâ— such Persons if therefore Luther Calvin and the other Drs. J quoted judge by Scripture that Doctrin and manner of life to be true and good why may not wee say its the Doctrin of the Reformation if you or the Church of England or Scotland judge that Doctrin to be false and that manner of life to be a dissolution and corruption of manners why you are men of sound judgment you vnderstand Scripture so that will be the Doctrin also of the Reformation you may believe it but you must not deny that Luther and Calvins Doctrin also is of the Reformation because they were men of as sound a judgmen as you You transgress haynously against modestie in saying those sacred Organs of God