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A00637 A counter-poyson modestly written for the time, to make aunswere to the obiections and reproches, wherewith the aunswerer to the Abstract, would disgrace the holy discipline of Christ. Fenner, Dudley, 1558?-1587, attributed name.; Stoughton, William, fl. 1584, attributed name.; Jacob, Henry, 1563-1624, attributed name. 1584 (1584) STC 10770; ESTC S101936 77,534 204

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of the knowledg to read of an audible voice and the other from the especiall gyftes of interpretatiō of doctrine exhortation giuen by the holy ghost as peculierly for the Church-ministerye Rom. 12. 1. Cor. 12. Ephes 4. And if he had not forgotten the ancient question after y e reading of Demostenes oration O what if you had heard him selfe speake it He would not haue maruayled y ● God hath attributed the first fruits or rather first spring of our fayth to y e liuely preaching of the Worde James 1. which in that respect is compared to sowing Mat. 13 to begetting James 1. to grafting 1. Cor. 3. This trueth that all Ministers ought to be apt to teach as it is moste manifest and cleare by the Scriptures so it hath witnesse from the Church euen when it was fallen almost to decay but specially when-soeuer any worthye seruice of God florished as may appeare by their decrees canons sentences following few only of many being sparingly takē for breuities sake Concil Carthag 4. in y e rules of examining a Bish according to the 1. Tim. 3. amongst the other proprieties there mentioned it is required to be sought If he be learned if he be instructed in the law of God If he be Cautus sensibus scripturae warie in the sence of the scriptures si in dogmatibus exercitatus it he be exercised in doctrines opinions or sentences meaning of all sortes that he may be able to put difference And in the Canons of Pope Celestine the 1. Can. reproouing a superstition in Ministers in squaring their outwarde attire to the phrase of certaine places of Scripture We haue learned sayth he that some Priestes or Ministers of God do serue or giue them-selues to a superstitious kinde of seruice rather then to the puritye of the minde and faith who beeing cloked hauing their loynes girt beleeue that they shall embrace the faith of holy Scripture not by the spirit but by the letter And hauing shewed that we must not do the thinges but that which is ment by such speaches he saith further We are to be discerned from the people or others by doctrin not by garments Now when they haue no more soundnes in faith and abilitiy to admonishe then is requyred in Christians how are they discerned from the common people and others by doctrine Concil Toletan 4. Ignorance the mother of all errours is especially to be auoyded in Priestes or Ministers who haue taken on them the dutey of teaching among the people of God For Paul doth commaund Priestes or Ministers to read the Scriptures often saying to Timothy attend to reading exhortation let Priests or Ministers therefore know the holy scriptures and let them meditate the Canons let all their worke consist in diuine preaching and doctrine and let them edifie all as well with the knowledge of faith as with the discipline of works And Chriso 1. Tim 5. 17 For this is much for the edification of the Church and very requisite that the Elders be apt to teach for this cause with the rest with this that they should be giuen to hospitality they shoulde be moderate that they should be vnblameable he also numbreth this saying he must be didacticos apt to teach for this he is sayde to be a Teacher Which testimony declareth euidently that aptnesse to teach is no more an Idaea then all the rest specified by the Apostle So August Homilia de pastor Hauing prooued at large all the dueties of preaching to lye vppon the Pastours of the Church sheweth how by the Apostle they must not only preach but be instant in it saying For here the Apostle sayeth preach the Worde be instant in season and out of season To whom in season To whom out of season In season to those who will out of season to those who will not And thus much for an vnpreaching ministerie Ministers fallen to idolatrie from their Ministerie ought not to be receiued to their ministerie HItherto hath beene handled the principall cause of the Ministery as it were the proper glorye of the man of God that he be apt to teach Now it is meet in the next place to maynetayne also that truth which the aunswerer impugneth that Ministers fallen to idolatry ought not to be admitted vnto the ministerie of the Gospell by anye ordinary authoritie of the Church that so the glorye which God hath appoynted vnto the ministerie might be mayntayned both for sufficiencie and the authoritie which they should gaine by being voyde of all suspicion of inconstancie in that religion which he shoulde deliuer with much full perswasion of the truth to liue and die in the same and to be willing to deale their owne liues for their flocke For notwithstanding it must be true that aboue all thinges the Godly Ministers are to take diligent heede that they doe not in confidence of their strength or with a spice of free-will as Peter did boldly promise such constancie yea when we are by Christe his voyce admonished of our owne frailtie yet in all humblenesse trembling and feare resting vpon God his promise to minister strength to the weake and courage to the faint hearted they ought as the chiefe captaines of the Lordes army and conductors of his host not onely be free from probable suspicion of such foule cowardlinesse yea of execrable high Treason seeing such doe not onely flee before the enimies of God but vnto them and that betray the strong tower of God his pure and holy seruice into the hands of the diuell his sworne enemy but ought also to be examples patterns of al readines to suffer for the truth His wordes for the impugning of this manifest truth are The contrary of this Doctrine of his may bee prooued by the example of Aaron who was an Idolater or an abbettor of idolatry in the golden Calfe and yet was not from his repentance put from his priesthood Likewise by Peter whose reuolt and temporary Apostasy in denying his Master Christe was no lesse heinouse then the sinne of our idolatrouse priests who for the moste part sinned but of ignorance in that generall blindenesse Likewise Augustine afterward a famous Byshoppe was by the space of many yeares a detestable Manachy And after he alleageth many testimonies of the Concil Meldens the glo out of the Nicen and out of Leo. And Augustin that Heretickes as namely Nouatians and Donatistis returning from their Heresies may be receiued And out of Viret that From Popery men maye be receiued to the Gospell Peter Viret in dialog la discipline eccles des eglises reformes du royaulme de Fraunce pag. 128. 129. Now all these allegations although they carrye some shew to him who vnderstandeth not the cause yet to him that shal but once consider of the question as it is before with out ambiguitie set downe it is manifest that his allegations touch not the questions For the examples of Aaron and Peter were without the
doe not agree herewith in all circumstaunces or that he will tell vs that something extraordinary was here in this action not to bee followed then must hee shewe by direct Scripture what was ordinary and what was extraordinary and must reconcile other places of Scripture concerning like action which doe not agree in all poyntes with this In the first of the Actes two were presented one is chosen by lot and no imposition of handes heere seuen are chosen the manner not set downe by the multitude and being presented to the Apostles they all appoynt them and lay their handes on them In the 14. of Actes Paule and Barnabas are sayde Chirotonesasthai autois presbuterois and to haue fasted but no mention is made of imposion of handes heere all the Apostles did appoynt thē Hous katastesomen In the first to Titus he onely is willed to appoint priestes Hina catasteses presbuterous according as Paule prescribed vnto him Nay let him shewe vnto me any two refourmed Churches of diuers nations iumpe in all circumstaunces heereaboutes or anye one of them which permitteth this action without intermedling of the cheefe Pastours vnto all the Disciples or multitude of beleeuers in the sayde Church which yet haue an interest in hauing a good Minister but as I take it the cheefe swaye and moderating of such actions are in all other refourmed Churches in suche men to whome this trust is especially recommended And hath not likewise for auoyding of sundry inconueniences the whole Churche and Realme of Englande by Parliament whereunto euery man in the eye of the law is saide to haue consented reposed this trust in a fewe chosen men of ecclesiastical functiō Euen M. Beza him selfe concerning the place of the Actes doth say There is no cause why hereof anye man shoulde prescribe anye speciall rule but if the conscience be vpright it will be easie to set downe what is expedient according to the circumstaunces of tyme and places The reply vnto the former words Although the aunswerer in this large and tediouse discourse hath brought no new matter in substance which hath not alreadie beene sufficiently refelled so as no new encounter by publike writing as a supply hath beene made against the same yet shall it not be without fruite to the reader First to note out his tumultuous and insincere dealing his contrarietie with him selfe his agreement with the Papistes and then hauing particulerly layd● open the nakednesse of his seuerall obiections briefly as before to set downe the plaine simple trueth out of the Scripture His tumultuous and insincere dealing appeareth in that pretending to haue greatlye sifted the wrytinges of this controuersie and to haue exact knowledge of the orders of reformed Churches in this behalfe hee is not ashamed in stead of incountringe with the truth to frame him selfe an vnknowne aduersary that is in steed of ouerthrowing the consent of people in Church-elections to make warre against a meere populer Election not gouerned with the fore-direction of the Elders which hath no ground in the scriptures and was neuer maintained as him selfe confesseth but by Anabaptistes and in steede of manly buckling with the substantiall pointes of Church-election with the foreleading of the Presbytery with the due consent of the people cowardly to betake himself vnto the changeable circumstances of the same as who should present the Elders or the people howe the people shoulde signify their consent by lifting vp their handes or otherwise by themselues or by proctors and diuers such other Which in the particuler answere following shall be declared howe according to the word of God they may vpon diuers circumstances be diuersly carried His contrariety to him felfe is apparant by these three partie-coloured assertions First that the people did chose without the Apostles Secondly they were to choose but the Apostles reserued to themselues the appointing of thē to their office if they shold be found to be such as were described Thirdly that the people presented them to the Apostles censures For that hee sayth they chose without the Apostles is directly contrary to that he sayth they presented them to the Apostles Censures so that their Election was to be disanulled and made none vnlesse by the examination of the Apostles they were founde aunswerable to their description His agreement with the papists and namely with the Romish Remists Testament doth notably appeare in that they appoynting as he doth the fift verse of the 1. of Titus to the consent of the people in the Election of their Minister they doe more breefly but as fully and plainly and with more curtesy to the trueth set downe both his assertions reasons and auncient Testimonies in these fewe words following And here it seemeth that he did not only consecrate them whom the people had elected before but him selfe also made choyse of the persons no mention being heere made of any other election populer which though it vvere long vsed in the primitiue Church yet for diuers causes and specially for continuall tumults partialities and disorders which Saint Augustine much complaineth of in his time was iustly taken away and other better meanes of their designement appointed See concil Laodic cap. 12. 13. So much the Papists Again how he iumpeth with the spirite of these Jesuites sauing that still they yeelde more to the trueth then he in saying That the Apostles shewed the people what to do without any prescript worde but onely by the instinct of Gods spirite may appeare by their words which they vse vpon the like occasion of Peter in their annotation on the 15. verse of the 1. Chapter of the Actes Which Peter saie they did not vpon cōmaundement of Christe written but by suggestion of God his spirit and by vnderstanding of the Scriptures of the old Testamēt to that purpose So far the papists And thus much generallye of his discourse Now of his particuler obiections the first is that he thincketh in no Church the whole number of people to haue free election of their Pastor If by free election he meane the due consent of the people either he speaketh against his knowledge or he knoweth not that he pretendeth seeing their confessions other their writinges and practize do in the knowledge of all those which know any thing in this matter euidently conuince him as may appeare by the quotations in the margent If he meane that the people should beare the whole swaye without the gouernment and direction of the Elders hee misseth the marke whereat hee aymeth Concerning the Queenes Maiesties prerogatiue royall which he would gladly oppone against the cōsent of the people in Church-elections First he could not be ignorant but that all acknowlege that the Christian magistrat as a principal member of y e congregatiō where he is ought to haue an interest in y e election answerable to his place aswel for aduise as consent Secondly the supreme magistrate according to the high authority which God hath committed vnto him ouer all