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A87828 Seven questions about the controversie betweene the Church of England, and the Separatists and Anabaptists, breifely [sic] discussed. 1. Whether is the Church of England as it now stands a true church? 2. Whether the Church of England be a right nationall church? 3. Whether are the ministers in the Church of England sent of God, and so are true ministers or not? 4. Whether is the baptisme of infants a true and lawfull baptisme or no? 5. Whether it be lawfull to be rebaptized or not? 6. Whether it is lawfull to separate from all the publike ordinances and Christian assemblies in our English church, because there are some defects in discipline, and in other things amongst us? 7. Whether is it necessarie to demolish our churches (steeple-houses as the Separatists call them,) and to build them in other places, because they were built by idolators for idolatrous worship, were abused with images, and dedicated to saints? By Immanuel Knutton, preacher of Gods word at Beeston in Nottingham shire [sic]. Knutton, Immanuel, d. 1655. 1645 (1645) Wing K744; Thomason E25_20; ESTC R4217 31,540 40

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lambe of God which taketh away the sinnes of the world Verse 4 Then said Paul John verily baptized with the baptisme of repentance saying unto the people that they should beleeve on him which should come after him that is on Christ Jesus Paraph. Then said Paul Iohn verily as the outward Minister of Baptisme baptized you with water to the remission of sinnes together with his baptisme teaching the people that they should beleeve in that Jesus Christ which should come after him so as his baptisme was true and perfect yet such as was not accompanied attended with these miraculous gifts which now since the full glorification of Christ are bestowed upon men Verse 5 When they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Iesus Paraph. Whiles therefore Iohn taught them thus and made this holy comentary upon his said baptisme they that heard it in receiving his baptisme were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Verse 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them the holy Ghost came on them and they spake with tongues and prophesied Paraph. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them as having before beene fully and duely baptized the Holy Ghost came downe upon them in miraculous gifts and they spake with tongues and prophesied So that here is no ground for rebaptization in this place these twelve doubtlesse had received the Holy Ghost though not in that miraculous and extraordinary manner as they did after for Paul in his question saith they beleeved now to beleeve is a fruit of the Spirit Therefore the Separatists doe very ill oposing our Baptizing of Infants for in Scripture we finde no examples wherein Infants of Christian Parents were denyed baptisme but examples we find wherein they had it conferred upon them 1 Cor. 10.2 as I proved before and Lydia with all her houshould was baptized likewise wee finde no negative precept inhibiting paedobaptisme neither can it bee proved truely that Christs command Teach and Baptize c. doth exclude infants from baptisme now if their bee neither example nor precept against paedobaptisme then such as oppose it doe ill for they follow those pestilent hereticks called Annabaptists in Germany who sprung up there when the light of the Gospel first began to shine not very long since about Luthers time this their opinion being but new and upstart there is good reason they should disclaime it and be humbled for it QVEST. VI. Whether is it lawfull to separate from all the publike Ordinances and Christian assemblies in our English Church because there are some defects in Discipline and in other things amongst us Ans I Conceive it is absolutely unlawfull to relinquish Gods holy Ordinances and the Assemblies of godly Christians in this Church of England because of our mixt congregations and because of some defects in our Discipline Reas 1 Because Jesus Christ leaves us not for our defects and weakenesses but continues with us and I hope will doe for ever It appeares Christ dwells amongst us because hee hath setled his sacred word amongst us sent us many godly and learned teachers and where these are teaching the truth there is Christ Mat. 28.20 Also he hath planted his Sacraments in our Church he hath converted many soules in our land to himself by the faithfull dispensation of his Ordinances but where all this is there Christ is resident Exod. 20.24 such a Church is the spouse of Christ and whilst she holds the foundation of Religion retaining the substantiall grounds of it agreable to the analogie of faith she is spoused to Christ but if shee reject the foundation of religion she is an harlot as the Church of Rome is Revelat. 2. there Christ walkes amongst the seven golden candlestickes viz. Those seven Churches of Asia yet some of them had great defects Now till Christ leaves us it is unlawfull for them to leave us and account our Church an harlot such as do thus do through the sides of our Church wound Christ strike at him and dishonour him Luke 10.16 Reas 2 Because in separating from our Assemblies and Ordinances you prevent the exercise of many an holy duty which you might ought to have performed amongst us Heb. 10. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love good workes but some might aske how must we performe this duty he answers verse 25. not forsaking the Assembling of our selves together c. here the Apostles impugneth the supercidiousnesse of the selfe conceited Jewes who out of contempt of the Gentiles deserted the Christian Assemblies as if he had said notwithdrawing and utterly separating our selves from the assemblies of Gods people upon conceit of the peculiar rights prerogatives which God hath given the Jewes above the Gentiles and standing upon the high tearmes of difference as the manner of some is c. Reas 3 Because its the high way to the sinne against the Ghost as is very cleare Heb. 10.25.26 for such as despise and desert our Christian Assemblies and Gods holy ordinances amongst us for some defects and imperfections which doe not alienate Christ his presence love from us are in the ready way to fall to blaspheme the truth and to sinne unpardonable Mr. Paget of Amsterdam in his preface to his booke called An arrow against the Separation of the Brownists complaines of them thus It is apparent that three or foure hundred of the Brownists have brought forth more Apostate Anabaptists and Arrians sometimes in one yeare then 10000 members of the reformed Dutch Church in this City have done in ten yeares or more though tempted and compassed about with seducers as much as any other Now the Arrian heresie is fearefull and odious in the yeare 324 sprang up Arrins a Presbyter in Alexandria who denyed that the Sonne of God was begotten of the substance of the Father but said that he was a creature and that there was a time wherein the Sonne was not The Anabaptists taught that infants should not bee baptized untill they came to perfect age and can give a confession of their owne faith Next that Christ tooke not flesh and blood of the Virgin but brought it from heaven Next that God not onely revealeth his will by the written word but also by visions and dreames Next that that Church is not a true Church wherein there is any Spot or wrinckle Next that the Office of Magistrates under the New Testament is not a calling approved of God Thomas Muntzerus one of the first Fathers of this Sect made a great insurrection though the Anabaptists teach that warres are unlawfull for Christians but was overcome and beheaded in the yeare 1533. Iohannes Leidensis troubled the City of Munster but was taken and condemned to death he called himselfe King of new Ierusalem David Georgius an Anabaptist in Holland said that he was Christ the Messias and Saviour of the world Thus wee see when men disdaine the Assemblies of Saints for some defects God leaves them to
fall into fearefull errours and heresies through the pride of their hearts Reas 4 Because it argues an extreame height of pride such as separate from all the ordinances are puft up with ambitious spirits like unto those in Isa 65.5 such would make themselves seeme holier then Christ and his Apostles who went and preached amongst the prophane Jewes and Heathens and though some of these seeme humble yet their seeming depth of humility may be a reall height of pride they may not lawfully separate from us except Christ also did whilest hee stayes with us they should doe the like Reas 5 Because this doctrine of Separation crosseth the judgements and practises of the godly Saints in all ages it is but of late invention those that seeme to have beene the Separatists their predecessors in former ages were the Donatists 400. yeares after Christ Donatus Bishop in Numidia drew many after him and had many favourers called by divers names Parmeniani Rogatistae Cirtenses Maximianistae Circumciliones the worst branch of this roote for these would burne or drowne themselves and account this kind of death Martyrdome the maine heresie of the Donatists was 1 that the true Catholike Church was no where else to bee found but onely in that corner of Africke wherein they themselves dwelt 2 that baptisme was not effectuall except it had beene ministred by one of their society against these heretiks did Augustine Bishop of Hippo contend with mighty grace the Separatists of these times are in some measure like them but in some points they exceede the Donatists Mr. Robinson and Mr. Johnson in one part confesse this their Separation to bee late and new but in the nature and causes thereof to be as ancient as the Gospel the former I grant the latter I deny for we never read that the Saints in Scripture separated from those assemblies where God was truely worshipped in the old Testament Elkanah frequented the publike Assemblies at Shiloh 1 Samuel 1.3 though there were more vile abuses of the Lords ordinances then amongst us in England 1 Sam. 2.22 and in that time betweene the Prophet Malachy Christs Nativity we reade that Zachary executed his Office Luke 1.8.9 and did not Separate from the Lords ordinances though there were fearefull abuses amongst them as farre as I remember in the Old Testament Caine was the first that separated from Gods holy servants and service Gen. 4.16 and Iudas in the new 1 Cor. 11.33.34 he wisht them not to separate but to reforme their horrible abuses of the Lords Supper Reas 6 Because to separate from us is to separate from the sweete presence of Christ in his Ordinances and from the fellowship of holy Saints as any be in the world which to mee seemes unlawfull Reas 7 Because the Separatists themselves had their first illumination in our Church by the word taught amongst us they made profession amongst us before they left us now that ministry of ours which first converted them doubtlesse through God assistance is able to build them up and they are bound to respect our Ministry before other because it first converted them 1. Cor. 4.14 15. this their separation is an ill requitall to their spirituall fathers Object Though we leave your Godly Saints and Ordinances yet wee have the society of other holy Saints and the Ordinances in purity Answ I beleeve there be amongst the Separatists some godly Saints but this is no signe of a Saint to depart from our Church for some defects in it it is altogether without example or ground from the Scripture and is rather a signe of a proud Pharisee doe not thinke that all your fellow Separatists are upright and sincere there bee as discembling Hypocrites amongst them as any are amongst us neither expect such edification from the ordinances dispensed amongst you as from the Ordinances amongst us because God gives you not now extraordinary gifts as hee did to the Apostles and your lay preaching wants those eminent gifts of learning which are gifts of the spirit 1 Cor. 12.4.10.11 which the ministry of this English Church enjoyeth yea some who followed the Separation a while but afterwards returned from it to our publike assemblies againe said that the Ministry amongst the Separatists is a very fruitlesse dead and heartlesse Ministry that they will often disagree about the interpretation of some places of Scripture and sometimes none of them hit upon the right sense whereas if they had a man of learning and judgement amongst them hee would soone resolve their doubts and prevent that unedifying confusion that is too much amongst them I desire you of the Separation to consider that place well Heb. 13.7 whose faith follow now those godly teachers who instrumentally converted you were not of your faith but did beleeve this English Church to bee a true Church wherein the Lord dwells and they joyned with us in Gods service I desire you likewise to tell mee ingenuously whether you have heard the voyce of Christ sensibly felt his spirit working upon your hearts more by the Ministry of this English Church than or by the Ministry of the Separation time was when you would have melted in prayer amongst us you would have trembled at Gods word in our Congregations ye would have obeyed from the heart that forme of Doctrine we delivered your hearts would have burned with zeale in holy performances amongst us you seemed to be inflamed with precious love to Christ to his ordinances and to his servants doe you finde the ministry of the Separation working these effects in you I hardly beleeve you do Object But your Ministers being called by the Prelates their calling is Antichristian we dare not come to your publike Assemblies to Gods worship because in so doing wee shall approve of their unlawfull calling Answer If you come to our Assemblies with good hearts to get edification by the word you bare presence at the ordinances is no approbation of our calling by the Prelates whilest your judgements and speeches are against it many godly and learned men frequented our Christian Assemblies even when the Prelates lorded it over us and troubled us with their ceremonies yet they approved not of the Prelates calling not of their ceremonies but manifested their disapprobation and utter dislike of them so I desire you to come and joyne with us in our Christian Services private and publike speake what you please against the Prelates and their Ceremonies and confute our outward calling from the Prelates by argument as much as you please so that you will but keepe the unity of the spirit with us in the bond of peace but this renting from us doth exceeding much hurt it brings many an able Minister into contempt and the word he preacheth to much disgrace it makes many weaker Christians to stagger and is commonly an inlet to divers errors and heresies for inveterate schismes oft times turne to heresies the Donatists because they could not effect their cruell designe against
as the Church of Corinth was in which was wanting the execution of spirituall Discipline more horrible abuses of the ordinances then in England yet Paul writes to it as to a true Church 1 Cor. 11.17 18 19 20 21 22 30. So the Churches of Galatia maintained justification by workes which we account a damnable heresie in the Romish Church at this day yet Paul called them Churches though this heresie be worse then the want of compleat Discipline and other Ceremonies in our Churches Also there wanted true Discipline amongst the Israelites and was more prophane abuses of Gods worship then is amongst us yet wee account them to have beene a true Church 1 Sam. 2.16 17 22 29. Reas 3 Because this Church of England was rightly called and constituted at the first by the preaching of the word and gratious Lawes of the Magistrate Object But it should have beene gathered onely by the word taught not by constraint from the Magistrate Ans Constraint it selfe may justly have place in the lawfull constitution or reformation of a Church witnesse 2 Chron. 33.16 2 Chron. 34.32 33. 2 Chron. 15.8 9 10 11 12 13. Magistrates may compell Infidells to here the word 2 Chron. 30. They are keepers of both tables they must abolish Idolatry and prophainnesse by command from the word and they have as good ground to cause people to attend the publike Ordinances Ob. But to beleeve is a voluntary act and must not be inforced Psal 110.3 Ans True God must sweetly and effectually perswade people to beleeve and bend their wills by his spirit the Magistrate must not compell any man to beleeve but he must compell them to attend the meanes of grace and to leave their wickednesse Luke 14.23 The guests must be compelled to come in though not to eate when they are come Compelled not by perswasions for these were the first invitations therefore by further meanes So then both Word and Sword was effectuall through Gods blessing to gather a Church in this Iland the Gospel was worthily taught in King Edwards dayes which brought 300. Martires in Queen Maries daies to the Stake and many godly professors to the succeeding times in Queene Elizabeths dayes there was great confluence of zealous Professors who spread the Gospel over the land and drew flockes of hearers to them then came a Christian Edict from the State that every man should yeeld obedience to this truth wherein they had been thus instructed it was performed by the most whose submission was an actuall profession of their faith and repentance Reas 4 Because We all in this land have entered into Covenant with God in Baptisme to serve and honour him all our dayes our Baptisme ties us as strictly to Gods service as Circumcision tied the Jewes and that our Baptisme is a right Baptisme you shall heare proved afterwards Ob. But the Church is a company of men and women called as Doctor Ames describes it now in England the most people are uncalled prophaine c. Ans There is a double calling externall and internall so the Church is either visible or invisible now many are outwardly called by the sweet invitations of the Gospel God calleth all sorts of men and men of all sorts but his inward and effectuall calling and the election of grace is but of few which is the meaning of that Mat. 22.14 Many are outwardly called to be Members of the Church visible entered thereinto by Baptisme made partakers outwardly of the word and Sacraments but few of these belong either to Gods eternall Election or are effectually called and chosen to be Members of the Church invisible So John 15 2. We are in Christ two wayes 1. By externall profession frequenting the Ordinances having a forme of godlinesse but c. these are Members of the Church visible 2. By reall implantation and these are the true spiritual Members of Christ both these our Church hath the common sort are outwardly called by the word initiated by baptisme and have a forme of Religion and are outward Members of the Church visible as truely as such were in the Jewish Church and as Judas was in Christs family and as Hypocrites are Members of any reformed Church for Hypocrites are worse then the openly prophaine Reas 5 Because This Church hath a godly and learned preaching Ministry sent of God as you shall here proved afterward and a faithfull heavenly people as any that live upon earth the Ministers are builders and the other Gods building 1 Cor. 3.9 Yet in that Church were horrible crimes incest maintained 1 Cor. 5.1.2 Some of them denied the Resurrection 1 Cor. 15.12 Though we have many dumbe dogs and wicked people yet the Church receives its denomination from the better part not from the major part as an heape of wheate having much chaffe in it QVEST. II. Whether the Church of England be a right Nationall Church Answer I Affirme it is as true a nationall Church as the Jewish Church was Reas Because this Church liveth by one Law Ecclesiasticall and Civill it continues one body and every Congregation is a Member of it as amongst the Jewes they had their severall Synagogues our Church hath the Sacrament of baptisme for imitation as the Jewes had circumcision Object But wee read of no Nationall Church in the New Testament therefore there is no Nationall Church now a dayes Ans 1. If this Argument were valid to prove that there is no Nationall Church now then it may as well prove there was no Church at all before Christs comming for we cannot find the word Church in all the Old Testament God indeed called the Jewes his portion inheritance chosen people c. but never Church 2. But I add further that no Nationall Church is mentioned in the New Testament Because there was no such during the abode of Christ and his Apostles upon Earth but only particular Churches gathered by the Apostles preaching amongst the Heathen there was no King nor Potentate that imbraced the Christian Faith for 300. yeares till Constantine the great Emperour of Rome who did most zealously receive countenance and promote the progresse of the Gospel and encouraged the Ministers of it exceedingly 3. If the judgement of Mr. Brightman and some other learned Divines upon the Revelation be Orthodox and sound which I question not then Nationall Churches are spoken of and prefigured by those seven Asian Churches whom that Eagle-eyed Expositour lookt upon as Types of succeeding Churches and those Churches whom they set out to be the Counterpaine as Sardis set out the Church of Germany Laodicea our English Church Philadelphia set out the Churches of France Helvetia Suevia Geneva Holland Scotland because they live by one and the same forme of Ecclesiasticall Government and so of the rest 4. Lastly In the Old Testament are divers illustrious prophecies of Nationall Church of the Jewes when God shall convert them and bring them backe to and settle them in their owne Kingdome for the
Acts 2.45 Acts. 4 34 35 36 37. this course continued about 200. yeares during which time no marvell though they required not tithes that which was given them being a farre greater proportion such as oppose the morality of tithes now would not bee willing to deale so with us Ministers of the Gospel QVEST. IIII. Whether is the Baptisme of Infants a true and lawfull Baptisme or not Answer I Affirme it is a true right lawfull and fit Baptisme and ought to be used in a Christian Church professing Gods truth Reas 1 Because excepting the difference of the visible ceremony there is the same analogie of reason of Baptisme as of circumcision the same internall spirituall thing signified viz. remission of sins mortification of the flesh Deut. 10.16 Jer. 4.4.6 Act. 2.38 Act. 22.16 Rom. 6.4 both of them are Symballs of our Adoption into Gods family and so our imitation into the Divine Covenant Gen. 17.7.10 1 Cor. 12 13. Gal. 3.26 27. besides Baptisme succeedes Circumcision Col. 2.11.12 or else the conditon of Christian infants under the Gospel were worse then the condition of Jewish Infants under the Law in regard of their age if Baptisme might not bee conferred upon them now as Circumcision upon the Jewish children if Baptisme belong not to Infants then the grace and favour of God by Christs comming is more obscure and straight and lesse testified then it was to the Jewes which to affirme is an horrible indignity offered to Christ Object But there was an expresse commandement for circumcising of Infants Gen. 17. but no such for Baptizing of Infants now Answ 1 There is a generall command Mat. 28.19 20. all that beleeve of any condition whatsoever should be Baptized under which Infants borne of Christian parents are comprehended for in Lawes and Precepts that be generall an enumeration of singulars and perticulars is not required because lawes doe command concerning the whole Kind Secondly the Baptisme of Christian Infants hath descended and continued from the Apostles dayes to us Origen who lived in the yeare 213. said that the Church received the tradition from the Apostles to give Baptisme to Infants Augustine who lived in the yeare 420. said that Baptisme of Infants the Church univerfall held it not instituted by Councells but alwaies retained it and most rightly beleeved it to be delivered by Apostolike Authority Now such examples are aequivalent to expresse commands Thirdly The New Testament doth not literally command remember to keepe holy the Sabbath not to say grace before and after meales not to pray with our families morning and evening not women to receive the Lords Supper many other such like things I might instance yet we hold this to be morall duties and ought of necssiety to be performed and may be proved sufficiently by consequence out of the New Testament Reas 2 Because Christian Infants are in the Covenant of grace as well as the children of Israelites Gen. 17.7 Act. 2.39 for this blessed Covenant is exceedingly extended and enlarged by Christ good reason then the seale of this Covenant should not be straightned nor made narrower then Circumcision was now Christian Infants being within the Covenant of Grace Baptisme the Seale of it is their right for as much as they are Christians belonging to the Church of God 1 Cor. 7.14 here he saith your children are holy if but one of the persons married be a beleever some by holy understand legetimate as if he had said your children are not bastards but lawfully begotten and borne But the Apostle speakes not of civill legitimation for the children of Infidells may be and are legitimate others construe the words thus that your children are holy viz. by education in Christianity others interpret them thus your Children are holy viz. by the secret operation and illumination of the spirit which begets in them new inclinations towards God as in John Baptist and the Prophet Jeremy Others say thus your children are holy viz. They are Christians belonging to the Covenant and to the Church this I chuse holy here is not understood civill but legally the Law called things uncleane prophane as vessells and living creatures and men without the Church and so the Law called things dedicated to God holy therefore as the children of the Jewes in the old Testament were not uncleane but holy that is they were not Gentiles but Jewes in Covenant with God from the wombe by the vigour and vertue of that promise Gen. 17.7 though by nature they were children of wrath so here Christians with their children who are adopted into the place of the Jewes now in the new Testament the Apostle calls holy that is they are not Heathens but Christians though by reason of originall sin they are borne children of wrath so according to faederall grace wee are borne Christians though according to nationall generation wee are borne sinners by vertue of which faederall sanctity Christian Infants have as cleare a right to Baptisme as Jewish Infants had to Circumcision such then who oppose faederall sanctity and teach that the custom or Baptizing Infants hath continued in the Church not from example or command in Scripture but from the degrees of the Church take part with the Papists who stifly seeke to maintaine theirs against us Reas 3 Because Infants are capeable of the thing signified therefore they may be Baptized they may have grace secretly bestowed as Jeremy and John Baptist many such belong to heaven Mat. 19.14 as if he had said of such little ones and of others affected like them doth the Kingdome of God consist Marke 10.14 Christ blessed them then we may bestow the Sacrament and seale of blessing on them Object If wee could certainely know which Infants had grace wrought in them and did belong to Heaven then we might baptize them but this we know not therefore it s the best not to baptize them til they come to riper yeares to make a profession and a confession of the Christian faith Answer First know that wee cannot infallibly discerne which man hath true grace and is elected this God only knowes we may and ought to judge very charitably upon an exact profession so upon a bare profession Phillip Baptized Simon Magus Act. 8.13 We must never Baptize any if we stay for infallible knowledge of any particular mans Election and particular Sanctification Secondly the faith of Parents may warrant their infants Baptisme yea though they have a bare historicall faith not a justifying faith if they can credere ad baptismum though not ad salutem this faith makes their children fit for Baptisme there were many in the Apostles times who were Baptized having only an historicall faith as Magus and others Object But the new Testament runnes much upon these speeches beleeve and bee baptized repent and be baptized teach and baptize now Infants are not capeable of the exercise of any of these graces nor capeable of teaching and what good can the Parents faith doe to