Priests GEORGE GIFFORD To condemne overthrow read prayer ye bring as the ground or foundation of al your matter this Sentence God is a Spirit to be worshipped in Spirit Iob. 4. This Scripture indeed is cleare strong to cut downe al carnal worship as disgreeing from the nature of GOD And if any maintaine that the very bodily action of reading is the worship of God it may fitly be alleadged against them c. IOHN GREENWODS Answer Wisdome is Iustified of her Children IT is agreed upon consented unto on both sides that seeing God is a spirit onely requireth such to worship him as worship him in spirit truth all carnall worship is cut downe hereby of what sort soever as disagreeing from the nature of God that all fantastical devises of men namely whatsoever is not warranted in his worde is carnall worship a wearisomnes unto him lothsome in his sight So that no man ought to intermedle attempt or practise any thing in shew of worship wher of they have not sure grounde of his worde For even our God is a consuming fire Now to put away all your bodily distinctions and earthly cavils I still affirme as I have proved the stinting imposing mens writings upon publique assemblies to have them read over by number and stint or any other way as a worship of God instead of true invocation is a meere devise of man so carnall worship as also all other reading of mens writings publiquely or privatly in this abuse for praying to God Yet say you to apply this Scripture Iohn 4.22.23 in this manner against read prayer is frivolous where I appeale to all mens consciences for the weight therof It is frivolous you say except I can prove that a man cannot pray by the spirit of God with sighes and groanes upon a booke or when prayer is uttered after a prescript forme c.. At the first step you goe about to alter the question All our prayers ought to be uttered after a prescript forme even that perfect rule and forme our Saviour gave to his Disciples and all posterities But this is nothing to the matter For the other which is nothing but a begging of the question I alleaged certayne reasōs to this effect First that those sighes groanes in reading instead of praying were not of faith seeing that those sighes grones that proceed of faith minister matter to pray without a booke 2. That you did but barely affirme the question in calling it prayer by the spirit when one doth read seing reading is not praying at all for as I then alleadged to invocate the name of God in spirit is by the worke of the spirit to bring fourth of our hearts prayer to God which is then in truth when it agreeth to Gods word But reading is another matter namely a receaving of instruction into the heart from the booke Out of the first Mr. GIFFORD maketh men beleeve he hath fetched two heresies the one a perfection of faith the other that faith cannot be joyned unto or stand with anie outward helpes for the encrease therof Litle marveile he found so many heresies in our whole writings that could finde two or three in my first reason but that you may remember your self better though you had two yeares to consider I will bring the wordes before you againe if peradventure you may have grace to call backe your self I said if the sighes grones in that kinde of praying were of faith it would minister matter without a booke this sentence I may confirme by many testimonies of scripture that no perverted spirit can gaine say or resist the scripture teacheth us every where that in praying the spirit onely helpeth our infirmities no other helpes mentioned or can be collected in the present action of prayer through the Scripture He hath sent into our hearts the spirit of his Sonne crying Abba Father we beleeve therfore we speake Yet here is not any shew of perfection of faith but of the contrary praying for our wantes But this may be gathered that God onely accepteth the fruits of his owne spirit in prayer and requireth no more of any but that every one according to the proportion of faith pray unto him as occasion in them requireth Now to conclude that because in praying we neede not a book to speake for us when the heart it self book of our conscience speaketh with God that therefore sayth never needeth instruction but is perfect were slanderous false and senselesse The cause then of these heresies proceed hereof that your sel fe Mr. Gifford would needs frame two syllogismes in the moodes of your malice constraine the propositiō of the present action in praying to a generall sentence of all times and actions though both our question here was of the very action of praying in the conclusion of that very point within six lines after this you ad these wordes Even in the time of their begging at Gods hands so that these heresies must be Mr Giffords and not myne seeing they are found to be coyned of his idle brayne and godles heart only to defame the trueth But say you the most part are ignorant weak short of memorie c. therfore need all helps to stir them up to pray c. where by your own confession reading is not praying but a help to stir up to pray And even hereupon al our errours arise that you cannot discerne the difference of spiritual gifts with the distinct use of thē We doubt not but before prayer al the daies of our life we have neede of helps of instruction to praye aright for the fitnes of the mind bodie often fasting reading meditating c. are great helpes to go before to humble our selves in praying but in the present action of prayer whē the heart is talking with God the eies hands c. with attention lift up to heaven all the powers of our soules bodies conversant with God to take a booke read cannot be called in this action a help but a confounding of the mind of Gods ordinances and a doing we know not what though before and after it be an exeellent meanes ordeyned of God to instruct us to pray and al other dueties As for the conformation you talke of where I alledged that a troubled minde is the penne of a readie writer therefore needeth not a booke to speake for it in the action of praying By troubled minde I understood such a minde as is presently moved with the sight of some sinne or urged by other occasion a broken spirit a broken contrite heart not such a minde as in dispayre or doubt is perplexed and that the heart which is moved in faith with present occasion to cal upon God is the penne of a readie writer that is hath matter and wordes enough without a book to utter his own wantes we may reade throughout the Psalmes My throte
More vvorke for PRIESTS OR AN ANSWERE TO GEORGE GIFFORDS pretended defence of Read Prayers and devised Leitourgies comprised in the first part of his booke Intituled A short Treatise against the Donatists of England Wherein Is proved that the serving of God in such away and manner is a superstitious and vaine worship Written By JOHN GREENWOOD Christs faythfull Martyr Here-unto Is added by another man many other arguments against stinted service and booke prayer Luk. 16. 15. That which is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God Printed in the yeere 1640. The Preface MY first writing being about that spiritual exercise of prayer and true invocation of Gods reverend name whereby the distressed soule of man loaden with the burden of sinne compassed also about with so many deceitfull enimies continual assaults of Satan rebellion of the flesh entisements of the world etc. seeketh daylie help of God the Father giver of all good giftes having thorough Iesus Christ free accesse by the direction of his holy spirit for all occasions to unburden it self of whatsoever grief or occasion of thankes it is moved with I ought stil and by Gods assistance shall keepe me in the meeknes of the spirit not withstanding his unchristian railinges slanders reproches against me the truth I then shewed that no other prayer could utter and ease the severall occasions distresses of this conscience and that no other mans writing could speake for this soule unto God but the heart and mouth of him that prayeth for himself or is chosen the mouth of many uttering to God his or their mindes for their present wātes or occasion urgeth and the spirit giveth utterance And I further proved that onelie this prayer pleaseth God and is grounded on faith to this effect I brought many reasons out of Gods worde admiring the ignorance of this age wherin having had the gospell of Christ thus many years in our owne language to search and try all things by whole congregations doe make no other praier to God thē reading over a certeine number of wordes upon a booke from yeare to yeare moneth to moneth day to day c. the same matter and words as they were stinted even out of that Portuis englished out of Antichrists masse booke besides private reading of menswritings instead of praying And seing this counterfeit shew of worship and pretended prayers was made common marchandize in every assemblie by this Antichristian preisthood and that al men every where were compelled to bowe downe hereunto and to offer up such counterfeit sacrifices I perceaved the first principle of Religion which is to invocate the name of the true God through the meditation of Christ in spirit and truth with heart and voyce for our present wantes according to the will of God was never yet sincerely taught by these time serving Priests But as an agreable service to the humors of earthlie minded men which have not the spirit of God this ware was thrust upon al people They wel knowing that such a ministery and such a Church of wordlings could never have stood without such a Samaritan worship Egyptian calf and like earthlie devises to counterfeit a Religion al men inclyned to some And long have I heard this pretended worship inveyed against by many sometimes zealous for the errours and confused order thereof Yet could I not heare anie to sett downe or teach which was the true prayer that only pleased God manie contriving divers formes of wordes as though they had knowen the heart of man counselled thē to reade them day unto day yeare unto yeare at evening morning dinner supper c. by portion measure and stint as an offering to God what state soever the soule was in not teaching the difference betweene reading upon a booke and prayer unto God all the tyme So that true and only prayer hath not beene taught all this tyme those that knewe how to pray aright neglect it this reading being most easie as they thinke and they aptest therunto compelled in the publique assemblies thus to mocke with God after the manner of the papists mattins true zeale no where founde but in the persequuted remnant These my first writings caryed abroode by such as desired true instructiō and willing to make others partakers of such benefits as God imparted unto them it fell into Mr GIFFORDS hand Who as it seemeth being a marchaunt of such ware fynding the gaine of the priesthood to depend here upon or as he saith the peace and uniformitie of the Church made head unto it and that not with purpose as the fruite of his labour sheweth to edifie others but standing himself a minister to this Liturgie having made shipwrack of that conscience he sometimes was thought to have with all bitternes of spirit and carnal wisdome having no more savour of grace in his writings then there is taste in the white of an egge fleeth upō me with uncharitable raylings slanders c. And loadeth not only me but all the faithfull that walke by the rule of Gods worde with opprobrious titles of Donatists Brownists Anabaptists Heretiques Schismatiques seditious foolish frantick c. to bring not onely us but the truth of God into contempt with our Sovereigne Prince and all that feare God for he ceaseth not with laying al reproches he can devise upon our persons as one of those Locusts Rev. 9. whose similitudes are like unto horses prepared to battell whose faces like men but their teeth as the teeth of Lyons But also perverteth blaspheameth by all meanes defaceth the truth offered to him Welseing the natural mā perceiveth not the things of the spirit of God I wil speak not here of the giftes of the spirit but of the grace of God which sanctifieth the same many having Charismata that have not Charin And seeing I am alreadie thus rent Gods truth delivered by me troden under his feete I will followe the councell of Salomon who forewarneth me that he which reproveth a skorner receaveth to himself shame and he that rebuketh the wicked himself a blot And so tourne me from him leaving him to the consideration of his owne words where he sayeth in his Epistle to the reader He that seemeth most zealous in Religion and refrayneth not his tongue hath but bitternes in his heart in stead of heavenly Zeale And though nothing els can be looked for at their bandes that are Apostate from that light they have sometymes themselves published of vvhich sorte the worlde was never more full yet for the good of Gods chosen scattered abroade and for the defence of Gods trueth I cannot holde my tongue And for the more playnenes I will answeare as to him though I minde not to have anie more to doe with him till God give him repentance Wishing grace by the direction of Gods holy spirit to him that readeth to weigh both sides uprightly and to follow the truth to his owne salvation JO GRENWOOD More works for
publique assemblies Ephes. 2. 20. and 1 Cor. 3. Fourthlie if we might bring in anie mens writings into the publique assemblies thē all mens writings which we judge agreable to the Scriptures But this is forbidden Ecclesiastes 12. 11. 12. My proof of the first Proposition is this If anie mens writings are to be brought into the publique assemblies by Gods commaundement because they are agreable to the Scriptures as you in an other place alleadge then all that are thought agreable to the Scriptures ought of necessitie by the same commandement and if ther be no commandement then none are to be make Authentique which God hath not made Authentique For that were to set man in the place of God No mans writings cary that majestie as doth the pen of the holy Ghost No mans writinges are Cecuromenai Authentique confirmed by signes and wonders from heaven sealed by Christes blood that not one worde of title shal be vnfulfilled The Scriptures are all sufficient All men must walke by that one rule To thinke ther were not rules enough prescribed by the Lord for his house were blasphemous and papisticall Now for the explication interpretation etc. and speach vnto God in prayer God hath given giftes vnto men to pray and prophecye and ordeyned his ministery of Pastors Teachers whose lively voice is appointed to be the mouth of God vnto the people of his people vnto himself in the publique assemblies And these graces are not Apocryphall for no prophecie of the Scripture is of private interpretation idias epiluseos to euery one is given the manifestation of the spirit to proffit withal Most execelent men serve but their tyme in the publique assemblies Now J may conclude as J beganne That onely Gods holy word the lively graces of his holy Spirit are to be heard offred vp vnto in him the publique assemblies Where then in way of answere to the Minor Proposition you say you see not how our speach vnto God should be Apocrypha It answeareth not me who deny an other mans writing to be our speach in prayer unto God But c̄onvinceth your selfe by you own mouth thus True praier is not Apocrypha but all mens writings are Apocr Therefore mens writing is not true praier Here when you have nothing to say for your self you woulde make me believe that I accompt the Psalmes and the other formes of prayer in the Scripture to be Apocrypha when they be read though a litle before you confessed you had in your last writing donne me wrong therin I do accompt the reading of thé for praying to be a groffe and superstitious abuse of them yet them to be holie canonical script And here you have flatly ouerthrowen your self saying the worde Apocrypha is vsed with vs for that which is not Gods vndoubted worde vnto vs And in your last writing which should have beene your answere you said God speaketh to vs onely by the Canonicall Scriptures Now seing you would make your liturgie and devised formes of prayer helpes and instruction and yet cannot make them Canonicall or Gods vndoubted truth they must not be brought into the publique assemblie much lesse imposed by lawe vpon the consciences of all men And here remember all your Liturgies are cast out of the doore besides that you have not made in both writinges one direct answeare to this most firme Proposition which I will still leave upon you thus Onely the Canonicall Scriptures and lively voice of Gods own graces are to be brought into the publique assemblies for doctrine and prayer But mens writings are neyther Canonicall scripture nor the lively voice of Gods graces in such as he hath appointed to speake in the publique assemblies Therefore no mans writings may be brought into nor imposed upon the publique assemblies Thus might I make an ende with this vaine man considering the whole matter is proved against him all that followes being but repetitions of these former cavills but that I must cleare my self of his unconscionable slanders The Second Argument We must doe nothing in the worship of God without warrant of his worde But read prayers have no warrant in his worde Therfore read prayers are not to be used in the worship of God GEORGE GIFFORD To this I answere at the first that it is a greate audacitie to affirme that there is no warrant in the worde for read prayers When ther be sundry testimonies to warrant the same unless you will make difference betweene that which a man readeth upon a booke and that which he hath learned out of the booke Furder I said I doe not remember that ever I have read that God commaunded in the Scriptures that prayer shal be read upon a Booke c. J. GREENWOOD SEing you have indeed not answered one reason or proof I alleadged in my last writing but with must evil conscience as the handling sheweth perverted them I will leaue them to be iudged of them that shall see my writing And here seing you would not print it I will answere your cheif obiections First then you graunt that if I put difference betweene reading vpon the booke and that which he hath learned out of the booke mine Argument is founde For by your owne confession God hath not given anie Commandement for read prayer and so it hath no warrant Whervpon I gayne thus much First that they which impose read praier vpon the Church do that wherof they have no warrant in the worde and that in the high service of God then that they which reade vpon a booke for praying do that wherof they have no warrant in Gods worde wherupon al your Ministers must leave reading their stinted prayers upon the booke or els stand vnder Gods wrath all that so pray with them which wil be a fearefull reckoning if they repent not of their sinne shewed them And although our question be cheiflie concerning the reading of mens writings instead of praying yet I am content the other abuse of the Scriptures be included also though I make not both in the same height of sinne as shall appeare in my several reasons As an vnconstāt man then you in the latter end of the answere to this Argument would cal backe agayne that which you here have granted Namely that there is no Commandement to reade prayer vpon a booke for praying Of the contrary thus you reason The people of God did reade the Psalmes vpon a booke when they did singe therefore men may reade vpon a booke when they pray I deny your Argument besides that all men may see Your unstablenes in denying and affirming with one breath you now go about to make reading of prayer a Commandement thus you prove it Singing say you is a part of praier Singing may be read vpon a Booke therefore praier may be read vpon a booke Admit that Singing were a part of praier yet doth it not followe that all prayer may be read vpon a booke But you speake like
by writing to be thrust upon the publique assemblies you are wide and now iustifie homilies insteed of preaching and written praiers instead of praying shew your warrant The CHVRCHES power is limited by the word G. GIFFORD When the prayers be framed and composed of nothing but the doctrine of the Scripture and after the rules of true prayer nothing is brought in which God hath not commanded J. GREENWOOD THis might have come in before your raylings but you sawe it was too silly where is that commaundement of God that all mens writinges in forme of prayer agreable to the Scriptures should be brought into the publique assemblies your bare worde is not enough to put me to silence And when you have gott them into the Church you must prove that God hath commaunded they should be read for praier Where I said our Sauiour Christ never vsed the wordes when he praied in that forme of praier he gave to his Disciples nether commaunded his Disciples to say over these wordes nether do we reade that ever his Apostles did use them or enforced others to vse anie certaine number of wordes you say I spake vntrulie For say you the Disciples desired him to reach them to pray as Iohn taught his Disciples and he commanded them when you pray say Our Father etc. Luke 11. and S. Math. an Apostle hath deliuered the same to the whole Church I answer I have never heard that Iohn Baptist taught his Disciples to say over certeyne wordes nether can it be gathered by our Sauiour Christes answere for he answeared not alwaies the verie demaunde according to their wordes but thereupon tooke occasion to instruct them as the sawe neede And I have proved by the 6. of Math. that our Saviour did not commaunde them to say over the very wordes when they prayd for the word Houtos in Mathew signifieth after this maner Againe that Math. recordeth not the very number or the very same wordes that Luke doth And now I reason thus if Christ had commaunded those very wordes to be said over in praying then we must alwaies when we pray say over those wordes for in Math. 6. he saith when you pray pray thus Our Father etc. The etc. The word when sheweth that this commaundement is to be observed at all tymes And then the Apostles sinned in praying other wordes Acts. 4.24.25 Furder it being the most summary forme of praier most ample most perfect etc. if those wordes were commaunded to be said over then we ought not to vse any others for he is accursed that bringeth not the best offrings he hath Malach 1.14 By all these it is euident that our Saviour nor his Evangelists tyed no man to the very wordes saying over but according to that forme and those instructions and now leave of your popish dreames Yet you would make men belive I reasoned thus that the Apostles did not nether our Saviour himself or anie that we reade of vse these wordes in praier therfore they did not use it Nay I said they did not vse these verie wordes in their praiers but vsed other wordes according to their particular wants as our Saviour in the 17. of Iohn is said to do therfore he nether vsed nor commaunded others to say over those wordes And so I may well cōclude that to impose certaine wordes to be read or said by roate for praying vpon the Church especiallie mens writings is an intollorable pride even a setting of men in the place of God Also that to vse them or bowe downe vnto them in that order is sinne and a breach of Gods lawe The fourth Argument Because true prayer must be of faith vttered with heart and lively voice it is presumptuous ignorance to bring a booke to speake for vs vnto God c. The fift Argument To worship the true God after an other maner then he hath taught is Idolatrie But he Commaundeth vs to come vnto him heavie loaden with contrite hearts to cry unto him for our wantes c. Therfore we may not vse reading of a dead letter instead of powring fourth out petitions The Sixt Argument We must strive in praier with continuance c. But we cannot strive in praier and be importunate with continuance reading vpon a booke Therfore we must not reade when we should pray G. GIFFORD These 3. I ioyned togeather as having no weight you say I answeare by plaine contradiction without Scripture c. And after wardes is not my bare deniall as good as you bare affirmation c. I. GREENWOOD STay your selves and wonder they are blind and make blind Is ther anie doctrine more spirituall anie more inculcated by the holy Ghost thē this accesse vnto God in the mediation of Christ by his owne spirit to make our mindes knowne vnto God to offer vp the fruits of his owne spirit in vs and fetch encrease from him by this secreat worke of true inuocation with the heart and voice This colloquie with the high maiestie of God is it a matter of no weight to learne to discerne between diverse exercises of the spirit and to exercise his graces aright according to his will Right is it said the wisedome of God is foolishnes to the naturall man But Mr GIFFORD wil say he graunteth the propositious true and weightie maters it is the Assumptions that be so frivolous as he said a litle after ridiculous wel let them he weyed 1. That reading instead of praying is not a powring fourth of the heart by lively voyce 2. That it is a quenching of the spirit to reade an other mans wordes vpon a booke in the very action of powring fourth our heart as we pretend 3. That it is not an vnburdening of a contrite heart by faith but an ignorant action to reade for praying 4. That we cannot strive in praier continue in praier be importunate etc. by reading vpon a booke These are matters he thinketh of so litle weight the bare deniall and contradiction wherof he holdeth of such credit that it must suffice for answere seing he saith he hath before proved the vse of reading See here he caleth it the vse of reading He could not say that reading is praying nether that these two exercises of our Faith can be vsed both in one instant as one action I have shewed that proseuche anagnosis praying and reading are divers actions both of the minde and body let the reader consider what weight then this matter is of to talk with the living God But for the benefit of such as have grace to savour the things that are of God I will a litle illustrate the Assumptions at least some of them 1. That it is a quenching of the spirit to reade an other mans wordes vpon a booke when I should powre fourth mine owne heart the word itself must be considered the Apostle commaundeth saying 1. Thessaloniaus 5.19 extinguish ye not the spirit Now to suppresse and leaue vnvttered the passions of our owne heart by the worke
of the spirit giving vs cause of our owne heart by the worke of the spirit giving vs cause of prayer and instead therof to reade another mans writing I doubt not wil be founde and judged of all that haue spirituall eyes to see a quenching of that grace yea in that action the reading hindreth vs from pleading our cause with God according to the occasions we see in our owne hearts And by not teaching men to drawe out the graces of God in them to offer vp the sweete incense of his owne spirit in praier but an other course devised by fleshly pollicy the people growe into such Atheisme that they learne not all the dayes of their life to lay open their owne soule before the Lord in praier How much more then by imposing stinted wordes to be read in the whole assemblies insteade of the liuely graces making it a sufficieÌ„nt ministerie to reade ouer such beggarlie wares do you abandon Gods spirituall giftes and make an assemblie of Atheists in most places of this land yea trulie in the best assemblies compell such wares to be read when and where the liuely voyces of God present graces should onely be draweÌ„ fourth as an holy odour vnto the Lorde Yea I appeale to the consciences of al that feare God if this have not brought the land generally to Atheisme that not one amongst an hundred can call vpon God 2 That it is an ignorance to presume to come into so neere a conversing with God and to do one action for an other so offring the sacrifice of fooles let it be sufficient proof that reading is not praying That it is presumptuous to bring such lame sacrifices when yov know to do better let it be considered whether you would so vncircumspectly and carelesly approche to the presence of the Prince or any noble personage Then if he be our Lorde where is his honour his feare etc. when we wil teach men and compel men to do they knowe not what in his sight and to offer such lame sacrifice The Priests themselves care not what offring they bring to him Malach. 1. Thirdly the reading praier can be at no hand a striuing in praier for the worde agoniso which is read Rom. 15 30 signifieth to contend in fervency both in minde and worde to preuaile with God as Iaakob wrestled with the Angell and said I will not let thee goe except thou blesse me Genes 32 24.25.26 Such â—rist you shall see throughout the Psalmes in the praiers of David and the Prophets alas how this should be performed either by feruency or contynuance let the wise consider 4. For importunacy and continvance in praier whereof we have many precepts let the worde be looked vpon which is proscartereo to insist by perseverance etc. as we see our Saviour Christ make plaine vnto vs by a parable Luke 11.5 6.7.8 and Luke 18.1.2.3.5.7 now shall not God auenge his elect which crye night and day Experience we see in Moses who when he lifted up his handes to heaven the Israelites so long preuayled Exod. 17. You can not make your read prayers serve in this vse with all your divises For how would you effect this except to make the Priest reade till he sweat againe with vaine repetition and the people that use such stinted praiers to say them often over as the Papists their fifteene Aue marias fiue Pater nosters as a cure of altheir grieves By this litle I have spoken it may appeare though the Lorde knowes I am a man of vncricumcised lippes neither able to vtter that God giveth me by faith to see in these high thinges neither yet comprehending anie title of the excelency of them it I hope it shall appeare to Gods children how odious your marchandize is in Gods eyes and how you make the ordinances of God of true prayer of none effect by your traditions he onely approving the lively graces of his owne ministerie and such as have giftes and are called thervnto to be his mouth vnto the people and the peoples mouth vnto him in the publique assemblies you invent a newe worship and extinguish his which maketh men fall into dissolutnes and bloudie tyrannie against his Sainctes And where I alleadged that Paul would pray with the spirit and vnderstanding and therefore not vpon a booke you answere that Paul had no such neede of a book as other men have But if you had looked vpon the text better you should see that the Apostle in his owne person teacheth what ought to be donne in all Churches of all men And that he there taketh away the abuse of spirituall giftes I Corin. 14.15 and in the same Chapter sheweth that this and all other his doctrines are commannments of God vers. 37 nowe either God prescribeth two wayes to pray or els your reading for praying is a devise of man But your self have confessed there is no commaundement to reade prayer for praying Yet here you cauill with your stale shift that Paul taught others to singe Psalmes vpon a booke which is a meere evasion seing singing is not praying The same Apostle faith to all that are borne of God because we are sonnes God hath sent fourth into our heartes the spirit of his sonne which cryeth Abba Father So that although we have not like measure of grace yet if we cannot pray we have uot the spirit of God Gal. 4.6 I alleadged as you say a reason here why praier read cannot be true praier Jn reading we fetch the matter from the booke which moueth the heart In true praier we fetch the matter from the heart which causeth the mouth to speake Your answere is that this a most ridiculous vanitie for tell me say you this when we bring fourth in true praier matter froÌ„ the heart which causeth the mouth to speak hath not the heart bene first moued with the worde of faith etc. Let men here witnesse with me what cause I had to esteeme you as a skorner Againe how empty you are of any spiritual favour And here you haue no answere to give but aske me certaine questions First whether wheÌ„ we bring fourth in true prayer etc. the heart hath not beene first instructed To this I answere that againe you confesse the reading praier vpon a booke is not praying but an instruction of the heart to praye If you would stand to this we should not neede have so much labour and all the places of Scripture which you have alleadged for to proove reading praying have beene meerly wrested by you to deceaue the simple Well say you but if the heart be first instructed before it can vtter matter in praier whie may not the heart againe be moued with hearing or reading the worde and so vtter prayer Yes I graunt and still you graunt me that reading is not praying but moueth to praier TheÌ„ all your assemblies that have no prayer at all and all that vse read praier for praying do not praie but mocke with