then wil you gather this sense of it that the same Psalmes were reade and songe euery where Tell vs then in what tongue they were vsed And consider whether one tongue as the Greeke for example might not haue serued to that purpose For in the weast now we know the selfe same Psalmes yea and text also euery where to be vsed Basil in epist ad Cler. Neocae But was not this S. Basiles meaninge that the manner of Watchinge Prayinge and singinge Psalmes should not seeme strannge and newly inuented because it is allowed practised in so many and seuerall countries yes verely this only is his meaninge for certaine heretikes there were then which stirred vp the myndes and stomakes of the Clergie of Neocaesaria perswadinge them that the old manner and Custome of synging Psalmes was changed and saying At non erant haec tempore Gregorii Magni But theese thinges were not in Gregorie the Great his dayes Vnto whom S. Basil answereth that y e maner of psalmodie which he vseth is not his particular but common to him and Egiptians and both Contries of Lybia and the Thebanes etc. But where finde you here M. Iew. that these psalmes were in the peculiar tongue of euerie of these countries or that they were of the publike Seruice S. Basile speaketh no further but concerning the order of vsinge them and you make him to beare you witnesse in what tongue those psalmes were vttered Out of S. Hierome you proue to vs Iew. 177 An other Gheasse of M. Iewels That the voices and letters of all nations do sound out Christ his passion and Resurrection As who shoud say that in Kynge Henry the seauenths tyme the publike Seruice in England was not in the Latine tonge because many English bokes did intreate of Christes passion and Resurrection and because the people in their vulgar tongue did speake much of it Out of Aeneas Syluius lesse then a Gheasse for the Seruice in the primityâ—e Church Iew. â—77 you say A voice washeard as it had ben from heauen â— And now you begynne deuoutly to hearken to Reuelations though neuer written in go spell nor six hundered yeares after Christ Let euerie spirit prayse the lord and let euerie tonge acknowledge him And that thereupon the Sclauons wee suffered to vse their owne tonge in their Common Seruice When chaunsed this About the yeare of our Lord eight hundred and three skore That is to say ye come to late by two hundred and threskore yeares or thereabout to proue what was done in the six hundred yeares after Christ Againe such sute for the Sclauons as you speake of to haue the CoÌ„mon Seruice in their moother tongue proueth what was ordinarily vsed then to the contrarie in al Christendome The great staie of the Pope and Cardinals in grauntinge it declareth how Straunge Needelesse or daungerouse the Rulers of y â— Church 800. and odd yeares sence thought that request to be The voice from heauen importeth that it neaded a speciall signe and testimonie to obtaine a dispensation in a matter so extraordinarie Out of Innocentius you bringe ye can not tell what But first what was this Innocentius A Pope of Rome when lyned be About 300. yeares sence And dare you confirme your cause with Popes decrees of so late yeares But where dehreed â—e this In the Councel of Lateran That Councel which of all other ye most detest as in which Transsubstantiation was in expresse termes declared and in which the kyngedome as you will say of y e Popishe Church was defended Is it possible then to goe no further that out of that world and Councel a Decree should be alleged by the which M. Iewels Schismaticall opinion should be confirmed Consider by this one example indifferent Reader how this felow abuseth thy vnskillfulnesse or lacke of leysure to examin the places which he allegeth out of the Auncient fathers Who so bold as Iewel or practise of the Primitiue Church which dareth as it were at high noone and in y e very sight of y â— world to make men beleue that Innocentius forsooth the third was a fauorer of their procedinges And so to interpret his wordes and sett them foorth in great letters as though he had decreed that if for example Englishe men Douch men French men Italians Spaniardes c. were mengled together in one Citye the Bishope thereof should prouide meete men to minister the holy Seruice Iew. 177. ACCORDINGE TO THE DIVERSITIE OF THEIR MANNERS AND TONGVES which sould be to say In English Douch French c. But doth Innocentius meane so Nay doth he say so for if ye dare to set furth his wordes in Latin as though your fidelitie should be seene and yet in the Englisshinge of them corrupt the same wordes who may trust you in your Comment and construction vpon them Prouideant sayeth he of the Bishopes of such Cityes or dioceses where sundrie nations dwelled together viros idoneos qui secundum diuersitates rituum linguarum diuina ILLIS offica CELEBRENTET ECCLESIASTICA SACRAMENTA administreÌ„t That is we straightly commaÌ„d y t the Bishope of such Cityes prouide meete meÌ„ which according to the diuer sitie of Rites and Tongues maye celebrat y e diuine Seruice vnto theÌ„ minister the Sacramentes of the Church But M. Iew. leaueth out quite the interpretation of Illis celebrent may celebrate vnto them And M. Iewels falsehoode and that to 〈◊〉 but â— Gheasse Ecclesiastica Sacramenta The Sacramentes of the Church makinge of two verbes but one and of two Accusatiue cases but one and applienge y e verbe to y e former Accusatiue case which should gouerne y â— later only and leauinge the later accusatiue case not only without the proper verbe to rule it Iew. 177 but altogeather leauinge it out As in example VVe doe therfore straightly commaund that the Bishopes of such Cities or dioceses prouide meete men to minister he should haue added y e proper accusatiue case The Sacramentes of the Church but it leeketh him not he leaueth it out quite The holy Seruice he should haue put before it the proper verbe belonging to it To celebrate vnto them the diuine or holy Seruice for by sayinge vnto them the Pope signifieth that the people sayed not the seruice but the priest ACCORDING to the diuersitie of their manners more playnly it would haue ben sayed their Rites or Ceremonies and tongues If any man thinke this omission to be of smal importance I answer that in him which is so curiouse to note in the Margen Rituum Linguarum and to english them in y â— text with great letters the better to be considered in him it is no smal fault to place and construe wordes at his pleasure and to conueygh those away out of the sentence which beinge left alone doe open and expound the whole matter For interpretinge y e CanoÌ„ truly your greate doubâ—â— M. Iewel of Accordinge to the Vniuersitie of
TertulliaÌ„ Eusebius S. Cyprian S. Basile S. Ambrose and other out of whome these Examples of Women Infantes Mad men Napkins and Chestes were taken was only regarded and folowed By such EloqueÌ„ce as M. Iewel vseth the professed enemies of Christs Gospel might furnisshe their wickednesse Matth. 8. 9. 12. Sainct Matthew all faithfull beleue did write a True Gospell the Authoritie thereof is moste vndoubted and holy Would M. Iewell then thinke it sincerely done to scoff out the matter And to depraue the whole by telling vs that all the discourse or the most that he maketh is of Lazares Boyes Old womens Agues Sicke folkes Blinde beggars DuÌ„me persons Mad men Lunatikes Old Nettes Barley Loaues two Fisshes and Greate Store of Hey S. Augustine testifieth of the Peoples affection in his tyme that for Reuerence towardes the Sacrament they were carefull to haue a cleane Lynen Clothe to carie it therein home with them Hard. fo 54. And receaue it when they were disposed S. Cyprian witnesseth that the Sacrament was kepte in a womans chest that when she being vnworthy would haue opened and Receiued it fire came furth and fraied her away And in this sorte could I reherse other authorities to proue that Sole Receauinge was not only vsed but Reuerently also vsed in the Primitiue Church And will M. Iewel so Extenuate these matters as though it were no more worth then a chest or a Napkin that which is alleaged of the reporte of S. Augustine and S. Cyprian If it lothed those Holy and Reuerend Fathers to speake of Chestes Napkyns when the narration and historie so Required may it freely be skorned at to reherse y e self same fact after them againe and to make mention of Chestes and Napkyns But here also let any Indifferent man be Iudge whether it standeth with the Grauitie of an high Minister so coÌ„temptuously to speake of the Testimonies of Auncient Fathers D. Harding alleageth the Councels of Agatha The fyfth Example Hard. fol. 42. 43. of Auerna and Constantinople which make mention of priuate Oratories Chapels to say Masse in Here vpon saith M. Iewel In his former allegation he sought his Masse in litle Townes and Villages now he hunteth for it in priuate mens houses Iew. 73. Much in his pastim Was the last Supper of Christe Or his Institutinge there of the Sacrament and Sacrifice of the new Lawe any pointe the worse because it was but an obscure Parlor where he wrought those Mysteries And call you this A Huntinge for a Masse in Priuate houses to Reason out of the open decree of three Auncient Councels If you would vse lesse barking and byting then to hunt after Auncient Recordes we would not mislike it in you D. Hardinge proueth out of Leontius a Bisshope in Cypres that Iohn the holy Patriarche of Alexandria The sixth Example Hard. fol. 43. sayed Masse and Receaued alone M. Iewel inferreth A straite case for M. Hardinge to runne to Alexandria A thousande miles beyonde al Christendome to seeke his Masse and that not in Open Church neither but in Priuate Oratories Why is it a straite case May not a Lerned man as sone come from Englande to Alexandria Iew. 78. Childisshly as he may turne from one boke to an other and thinke nowe of one thing then of an other Alexandria is not so farre in miles beyonde al Christendome as you be far in your degrees beyonde all Grauitie For if the Authoritie of Leontius doth not weighe with you it is A plaine answer to refuse it but to obiecte the bringing of an Argument out of an Historie reported for done in Alexandria and to Terme it A Runninge beyonde all Christendome it may be founde in children which in their Declamations are permitted to vse what so euer Figure they can Or in the Vices parte vppon the Scaffolde Or in Iesters monthes at the tables of Secular men but in theyr Writinges which would seeme to folow the Spirite of Christ and Zeale of Trueth it can not be suffered S. Basile Amphilochius writeth was thought of Christe to celebrate Masse in whiche he diuided the Sacramente into three partes and Receauing one by hym selfe alone the other two he Reserued And so by this Testimonie Priuate Masse is sufficiently proued Or if it proue nothing to hym whiche refuseth the Authoritie of Amphilochius by whome it is writen yet to him which would take it for a true historye no doubt but it serueth for Priuate Masse M. Iewell then supposing it to be true let vs see how he tranaileth to disgrace it His wordes are these But if all this that Amphilochius reporteth of S. Basils Saicing of Masse were good record and mater of trueth yet caet What intend you by this Yet Would ye not beleue it Would ye not embrace it Would ye not be ruled by it Would ye not yeld and Subscribe Considering that Amphilochius liued w tin y e six hundred after Christ No surely you would not For you haue so many wayes to depraue thinges y t you may graunt our asking vnto vs and kepe your selfe still to the winninge syde Which how cunningly you do in this place I will take the paynes to consider If al this were good record c. Yet were it but a Miracle Do ye make a But at a Miracle And such a Miracle Marke to the 〈◊〉 of this place the exquisiâ—e excepâ—ions against the witnesse as standeth with a Truth I â—oked that you wuld haue diminisshed somewhat of the price of the Good Record of which you â—oake and to that end your YET did lead vs but you haue so forgoten your slfe that you make it the stronger by that very thing which you brought to weaken it by For a Record may be true and good and yet it foloweth not the fact to be alowed but if a Miracle be wrought about it it is not only to be compted as True because of the thing it self witnesse of Man but also to be alowed as Good because of the testimonie of God geauen to it by Miracle It foloweth in M. Iewel But a Vision As who should say that an Historie were the worse because it consiseth of a Vision from God and not of the externall sight and Record of man What wise man would euer say Let it be true that Iacob saw Angels goeing and cumming vp and doune vpon the ladder betwene Heauen earth yet were it but a Vision Is this your sight in Diuinitie to diminissh a Truth by the manner of Representing it It may be proued that to see thinges in a Vision wheÌ„ the mind is eleuated from bodyly senses is perfiter in degree of dignitie then to see them with corporall eyes where more meanes and more grosse are occupied Yet sayeth M. Iewel contemptuously it were but a Vision It foloweth in hym And perhaps a Dreame Wisely sayed I promise you and agreably to your former wordes For how can these two Propositions stande
directly to be considered The Answer of M. Iewell is this Princeps is often vsed for a man had in estimation for any Vertue Roome Or Singular Qualitie Ergo the Principalytie whiche S. Augustine attributeth to the Apostolike See consisteth not in Supreme GouerÌ„ment It woulde be ouer longe and tedious to teken vp all Examples by whiche I might euidently confirme this obiection of myne that Maister Iewell vseth the settinge further of one Trueth to the disgracinge or dissanulling rather of an other As when the Catholikes say to proue the Supremacie of the Bisshope of Rome Iulius restored Athanasius The .vij Example Iew. 290 M. Iewell Answereth Maximus also restored vnto him his Communion When they say The viij Example Touching faith and Religion the See of Rome hath alwaies bene consulted He Answereth Iew. 294 Marcellinus Dulcitius Bonifacius Euodius and other sent theyr questions to S. Augustine When they say The .ix. Example S. Peter was called Princeps or Chiefe of the Apostles He Answereth So we reed in Scriptures Princeps Familiae Princeps Legationis Princeps Coquorum that is the Chiefe of rhe house or stocke Iew. 302. the Chiefe of the Embassage the Chiefe of the Cookes When the Catholikes say The .x. Example S. Peter the Master of the whole world apointed S. Iames to be Bisshope of Hierusalem Iew. 303 He Answereth That vnto Michael is committed the nation of the Iewes But Land and Sea and all the habitation of the world is committed to S. Paule When they say The .xi. Example that Rome is the moste notable and chief Church of the worlde He Answereth that Cicero to blase the nobilitie of that Citie calleth lucem orbisterrarum atâ—ue arcem omnium GentiuÌ„ Iew. 304 the light of the world and the Castle of all nations To make an end when they say out of S. Ambrose The .xii. Example That Damasus the Pope is called the Rector and Ruler of the house of God To put the mater out of al doubt see what he answereth therevnto But to put the mater out of doubt let vs consider whether the selfe same forme of Speach Iew. 306 haue bene applied to any others in like sorte And then he telleth where other Bisshopes haue bene sayed to be Rulers in the Church But doth this kinde of Auswer either satisfie the Obiection Or Determine the Trueth Or quiet a doubtful minde Doth not this kinde of Reasoning bring vs rather into perplexities that it may not be knowen how to be resolued in any mater Is there any fitter waye for the Antichrist to worke by Antichrist high way for 〈◊〉 then by Forme and Phrases of Speache to confound all Faith and Religion Doe you beleue M. Iewel that Christ is the Sonne of God But doe you beleue that he is the natural Sonne of his Father of the same Substance Eternitie with him If you doe so in deede what say you to this Argument that Iudges in y e Scriptures are called Goddes Ex. 22 and that the frindes and Seruantes of God are called Goddes psal 81. Would this put the mater out of doubt that Christe is not the Sonne of God I meane by Nature because you coulde finde it oute after you had considered it where the selfsame form of speache is applied to others in like sort And where suche as are not the naturall Children of God are called yet the Children of God Christ saueth vs in Form of Speache S. Paule sayeth to Timothie Doeinge so thou shalt saue thy self 1. Tim. 4. and them that heare thee And would you conclude herevpon that the Power of sauinge is all one in them bothe because the Forme of the worde is all one Or that it is not properly and worthely veryfyed of Christe because it is but improperly attributed to S. Timothie Consider then I praie you M. Iewel whether this will put the mater oute of doubt if in Refelling the Sense of some one place whiche pleaseth you not you bringe a lyke Forme of Speache vsed in an other place And without further probation require to haue the vnderstandinge which your Aduersaie gathereth of his witnesse to be reformed accordinge to the meaninge of the Sentencies which you allege As because Princeps that is Chiefe is vsed in bothe places whether you say Princeps Apostolorum or Princeps Coquorum Therefore to conclude that the Chieftie of S. Peter Emonge the Apostles was no other thinge then the Chieftie of N. emonge the Cookes Beware therefore Christen Reader of M. Iewell And especially in those places whiche as they make moste for the Catholyke Faith so hath he no other refuge for sauinge hym selfe from Subscribinge vnto them but this very Simple one and Feeble to seeke where lyke Phrases may be founde of an other Sense yet and meanynge thereby to bringe in to doubt or as he supposeth to putre out of doubte that the Sense of the Catholykes Obiection can not contynue Whiche in fewe wordes is no other then to shewe hymselfe A Grammarian only And to destroie one trueth by an other as though One phrase might not haue two good Senses eche one agreeing with the place in which they are apointed to serue The sum of M. Iewels Argument is this The like forme or phrase of speache is to be found in an other sense Ergo to put the mater out of doubt this Present place of which the question is hath not a different or sundrie sense frome that other The Summe of my meaning is this that no man be deceaued through this kind of M. Iewels Answering wherein he so telleth one Trueth that he disswadeth an other This practise of the ProtestaÌ„tes hath already done harme inough let them beginne rather to amend theyr former iniquites then to adde fresshe vnto them They haue answered God must be worshipped in Spirite Which is most true and haue thereby taken awaie an other trueth that God is also to be worshipped with our body and bodily thinges They haue answered The true Fast is to abstaine frome Synne Whiche is vndoubteely True but by that faire shew of pure holynes they haue Destroied an other Trueth that Togeather with the fasting from synne we must also take paynes in our body and abstaine now and then from meate and drinke Thei haue Answered We must receiue the body of Christ by faithe which in some sense is most true But thei haue there withal taught the people not to beleue the Real presence of Christ in the Sacrament which presence yet is as true as the other is certaine In other cases moe they haue done the lyke It is to much that thei haue already done let them not therefore continue in this trade of Answering nor of dealing in maters of Religion Specially when thei bring the mater to Phrases of Speache and Signification of wordes and by one Sense take awaie an other whereas bothe in their seueral places doe agree with Truthe