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A13880 A defence of the ecclesiastical discipline ordayned of God to be vsed in his Church Against a replie of Maister Bridges, to a briefe and plain declaration of it, which was printed An[no]. 1584. Which replie he termeth, A defence of the gouernement established in the Church of Englande, for ecclesiasticall matters. Travers, Walter, 1547 or 8-1635. 1588 (1588) STC 24183; ESTC S118502 153,730 244

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all things which he hath commanded For exceeding great increase is it of the honor of our Sauiour Christ and therefore consequentlie also of the comfort ioy of the Church when the house kingdome of God is guyded by those ordinances and lawes onely which the onely Lord thereof hath appoynted When no offices haue place in his Church but such as he hath ordayned and when all such are placed in it as hee hath commaunded When they are called to these charges by such order as he hath prescribed and walke duetifullie in the same as aperteineth the establishing of these things in their due order in euery competent congregation of Gods people and the obedience of all estates of the same is so great a benefite as he were worthie to sorrowe that should not reioyce at so great blessings Whiche being as in all other partes of the Lande so more carefully obserued in euery place as it excelleth other both for the honor of them whom God hath so exalted and their good example amongst the people must needes be a ioyfull and cōfortable spectacle to all the church But yet a more heauenly sight all men must needes acknowledge it to see the Royall house court of a soueraigne Prince to haue such order established in it that is the holy Gospell of our Sauiour Christ vpon the Sabboth day and other conuenient times in the weeke to be soundly sincerely preached in it by ministers not charged with any other people but appointed for the seruice of that chief part of the Church and therefore also of greatest graces of godly wisedome and faithfulnes and euerie good and heauenly gifte meete for so precious a charge the holy Sacramentes duely administred the Lords watch carefully set for the preseruation of the chiefe towre of Ierusalem his holy Treasurie regarded and all those sacred assemblies caried with a godly reuerence In all which high solemnities and heauenlie meetings for the worship of Almightie God Howe great a ioye to see present there the soueraigne Prince as Dauid Salomon Hezekiah Iosiah and other Kings of Juda 2. Sam. 6.15.16.1 1. Kin 3.1.5 2. Kin 19.1.2 14.15 2. Chr. 29.20 2. Chro. 34.29.30 are reported to haue bin and to haue had their place for the purpose prouided for them where to present them selues before the Lord to increase in the knowlege obedience of his wil by the ministerie of his seruantes How great a ioy to see their right honorable coūsell of estate keping the Lords Sabboth in such order all the Princes Nobles which for any honorable seruice giue their attendance with all other officers of the housholde togither yeelding audience worship to Almightie God and his onely Sonne Christ Iesus accordinge to the golden saying of that famous and worthie Joshua I and myne house will serue the Lorde and accordinge to the exhortation which sayth Be wyse nowe therfore ye Kings Psa 2.10.11.12 be learned ye Judges of the earth Serue the Lorde in feare reioyce in trembling Kisse the Sonne least he be angrie and ye perish in the way when his wrath shall suddenlie burne blessed are all that trust in him To see these things would be greater ioy then the ioy whiche the Queene of Saba had for the like sight in Salomons Court and the greatest that the Church can haue till it be taken vp into the heauenly Jerusalem Heb. 12. ver 22.23.24 to the most solemne glorious assemblie of the spirites of the iust that are perfited in heauen to the thousandes of Angels and to the presence of the liuing God and of our Sauiour Christ his onely begotten Sonne the Mediatour of the newe Testament and the Reconciler of vs to God his Father by his precious bloud Loe the benefite the comfort that we acknowledge the Church of God receyueth when that prophecie of Esay is fulfilled Therefore in vayne to no good purpose doeth the Replier aske whether this blessing be turned into a curse and whether we can conclude because the golde is finer that is tryed seuen times in the fornace and the persecutions of the Church redounde in the ende both to the greater glorie of God the better confirmation of the church Whether I say for this cause wee can conclude that in persecution the church is more perfect in all hir regiment and in most blessed estate applying corruptly herevnto that place of the Apostle because where sinne abounded grace did more abounde Shall we therefore abyde in sinne that grace may abounde Rom. 5.20 Rom. 6.1 So if by an extraordinarie mercie of God the church semed in some respects to be in most blessed estate in persecution shall wee say that persecution is better for the Church then peace and prosperitie vnder a Christian Magistrate The answere wherevnto is playne that all other things being alike and the difference of the Church stande onely in this of being defended by a Christian Prince or persecuted by an Enemie it is to be esteemed a speciall and hye fauour of God to be so shielded and comforted and fitter for the generall and ordinarie course of gouerning the Church then tymes of trouble which are subiect to a thousand inconueniences But this nothing concerneth the Declaration which only shewing by experience of former and present times that the regiment of the Church was is and may be most perfect euen where it wanteth the great comfort of the fauour of an earthlie Prince argueth thereby the order which is followed in that treatise to be lawful and good So as if he would haue spoken to the poynt that the declaration standeth vpon he had bene to shewe that the regiment of the Church neuer was nor can be perfect without a Christian Magistrate Which poynt hee would seeme also to growe nearer to in that which followeth wherein he laboureth to shewe the imperfection of the regiment of the primitiue Church by these reasons The regiment sayeth he was abused in those that had giftes of tongues of healing c. Which is not so for the abuse of a thing proueth not t' him perfectiō of it The light of the Sunne by day of the Moone and starres by night yea all the creatures of God are abused yet this proueth not the light of the Sunne to be imperfect or the state of other creatures in their originall creation at which time also they were abused The word of God is abused diuerslie Phil. 1.15 some preaching it for contention some for vayn glorie some for couetousnes to attayne to great worldly liuings and dignities yet is the worde perfect 2. Cor. 2.17 as the Prophete sayth in the Psalme So in the primitiue church Psal 19.7 the regiment and the order of it set downe whereby it was to be gouerned might be perfect as it was in deede notwithstanding it were trewe that some abused it but that also is not shewed that the regiment is abused For the abuse of the spirituall
which are shewed after to be fullie grounded vpon the worde of God In the meane time this I adde for his further satisfaction It being necessarie to be directed in these matters from God it must needes be that God hath left vs this direction in his worde otherwise he must confesse there are necessarie truthes not written in the worde but this popishe opinion of vnwritten verities is worthilie reiected of all professors of the gospell long agoe For we can not nowe say to anie as Dauid said to Abiathar take the Ephod 1. Sam. 23.9 and aske of the Lord we haue no other Ephod nor other Vrim Thummim left vs from the Lord whereby we may be certified of his good pleasure in anie thing but onely the bright glistering pure light of his H. Scriptures wherein as in the brest of our hye priest Iesus Christ we may see and reade the will of God for our direction Nowe that we neede in these matters to be directed by God appeareth by this that of our selues wee can not by any natural vnderstanding attayne to this knowledge For the naturall man comprehendeth not Act. 7.20.21 the spirituall things of God For which cause Moses a man otherwise of great giftes of nature and of studie as one in whose face the grace of God appeared and who had bin brought vp in all the learning and knowledge of the Egiptians and that by such excellent masters and meanes as were meete for him that was respected in his education as graūd-childe to the King of Egipt yet stoode he in neede to be instructed of God in as small matters concerning the outward guydance of his church as are any mencioned in the declaration and much smaller Further also the Apostle affirmeth that the thinges he wrote to Timothie hee wrote them that he might knowe 1 Ti. 3.14.15 how to behaue him self in the Church which is the house of the liuing God 2. Tim. 4.5 And if Timothy an Euangelist one of whose ministerie the Prophetes had spoken before 1. Tim. 1.18 one that had receyued the faith from his ancestors 2. Tim. 1.5 whō the Apostle for the likenes he had of his Apostolical spirit calleth his naturall sonne stood notwithstanding in need to be informed by writing from the Apostle 1. Tim. 1.2 howe he should behaue him self in the church and that in so many particulars as he instructeth him in sure it must needes be cōfessed to be necessarie for all other to be taught also by writing which is the most certayne way of instruction howe they ought to behaue themselues in the same If it were not needfull to be taught by the Apostles howe a man should behaue him selfe in guyding the house of God why did the Apostle write to Timothie to this ende to direct him in that he had to doe in the Church And if it were needefull for Timothie why is it not as necessarie for all others This reason mouing the Apostle to write of this matter to Timothie no doubt did cause him likewise for the same ende to write to Titus of the like matters And if so excellent personages vnderstoode not what to doe nor howe to behaue them selues in the Church for that which appertayned to them in the administration of it without certaine direction in writing concerning it from the Apostles I can not thinke but the like direction should be needfull for all those who haue anie charge in the church When Nadab and Abihu sonnes of Aaron the high Prieste Leui. 10.2 had bin consumed with fire from before the Lorde for misgouerning them selues in an outwarde thinge concerninge their Ministerie in a matter as it might seeme to fleshe and blood of small importance Moses tolde Aaron his brother that this was so come to passe according to that the Lorde had saide Leui. 10.3 I wil be sanctified in those that come neare vnto me glorified in the sight of all the people meaning thereby that God had forewarned the Priestes that if they misbehaued thē selues in their ministerie he would glorifie him selfe in their examplarie and grieuous punishment Which being so surelie the fault and punishement can not be small nor to be despised if anie of those who come neare to the Lorde to stande and minister before him in the time of the gospell shall misgouerne them selues in their charge Therefore necessarie it is and that moste necessarie that there bee direction for them in the worde of GOD. And thus much also to this point In the next section which the replier maketh of the declaration it is gathered of the former sentences that wee are to searche the Scriptures that we may finde that order whiche is left in them for the guydance of the Church The first thing the Replyer reproueth in this section is that it is saide The gates of hell shall not preuayle against the foundation before mencioned Who may easilie satisfie him self for this obiection because the meaning of the Declaration was not to alleadge those wordes as spoken of that it intreates of it being apparant to be meant of the Church buylded vpon the Prophetes and Apostles Christ Iesus being the foundation-stone thereof somewhat otherwise then he hath taken it who expoundeth it of Christ him selfe but by these wordes although vsed in that place to another ende it declareth the sure stedfastnes of that doctrine which was a litle before mencioned whiche being as the declaration intendeth and as it is in deede a part of the heauenlie trueth of the worde of God whiche can not fayle in any part of the same it was trulie spoken also of the matter it is applied vnto Of the word foundation he taketh occasion to set downe the 1. Corinth 3. ver 10.11.12.13.14.15 where mencion is made of the foundation Christ Iesus and of buylding vpon it straw or stubble which he sayth they doe that vrge anie outwarde order of ecclesiasticall gouernement as matter of saluation After where it is saide in the declaratiō vpon former proofes that we ought therefore diligentlie and reuerentlie to searche the holy Scriptures to finde what the order is whiche GOD hath appointed for his Church he answereth with scoffing reprochefull speaches without any iust matter of rebuke And in the ende of his replye to this section because it is said in the declaration we are to search in Gods worde that order by which God would haue his Church directed in all thinges appertayning to the saluation thereof He replyeth that this were to condemne all the Churches where this order hath not bin obserued which eyther if it be necessarie to saluation could not be the Churches of God without it or if it bee not necessarie it is saith he vnnecessarie to saluation then our Church may remayne gouuerned as it is without either being deformed maymed or no church as some affirme whō he nameth as in reproch For answere to these thinges and to begin where he leaueth
nor this nor this and so maketh three sundrie argumentes of his owne as if they were vsed by the Declaration but are not and denyeth them to be good which is nothing to the matter he tooke in hande For if he make a hundreth yll argumentes as he hath done in this booke and can more easilie doe them then make one good one there is no reason to charge the Declaration for such a cause as he mainteyneth From this he goeth to shewe that it is not meete our brethren should vse the same argumentes that the Anabaptistes doe against Princes Wherein he nameth vs our brethren as scorning vs. Whereof I knowe not what example he may haue but of Ismaell who is said to haue scorned Isaac wherevpon th'Apostle sayeth As he that was begotten according to the fleshe persecuted him that was borne according to the spirit euen so is it nowe The rest of that marginall note shewing whereabout hee goeth is that our brethren vse the same argumentes whiche the Anabaptistes doe against Princes Which is so doubtfullie set downe as if he could be content the Reader tooke it not onely that the Anabaptistes vse argumentes against Princes but also that the Declaration vseth the same argumentes against Princes The Replier him selfe hath not so farre lost all conscience and modestie as to charge vs in anie sorte with any part of the damnable errours of the Anabaptistes but plainlie acknowledgeth that we detest them but somewhat he would fayne should cleaue vnto vs. And therefore would haue it vnderstoode that we haue some indisposition against Princes that we haue thus much good liking of the disputations of the Anabaptistes as to vse their argumentes against Princes But the Lorde who seeth the secretes of all hartes knoweth that in our most inwarde spirit we reuerence and honour Magistracie as the holy and necessarie ordinance of God euen amongst Christians and yeelde all willing and cheerfull obedience vnto it euen for conscience sake of the will of God Therfore the accuser of our brethrē him self as he is termed in the reuelation can not accuse vs with any maner of colour of their errours As for vsing their argumentes where did euer the Anabaptistes vse this argument that in a treatise of ecclesiasticall regiment good order requireth to speake first of ecclesiasticall officers before a man treate of the soueraigne power of Princes because the Church was perfect in all hir regiment before there was any Christian Prince Is this any argument against Princes or doeth it weaken any thing at all the power of the Christian Magistrate that their authoritie be treated of in a booke so as may stande best with good order Where did euer any Anabaptistes vse such an argument It were flatlie contrarie to their error to vse such a one as plainlie implyeth allowance of the Christian Magistrate and standeth onely for a reason of the order of the treatise But if the Declaration had vsed any argumentes of theirs being not to the same ende or like purpose that they vsed them that is to disproue the necessarie most lawfull ordinance of God concerning Magistrates that had not bin blame worthie For as hath bene saide th'argumentes of Logike are as common to good and badde as are the rules of grammer yea as the Sūne and the rayne so as if he would haue vs forbeare all the argumentes that euer the Anabaptistes vsed and by consequence anie other heretiques he may as well forbid vs to vse the same rules of grammer yea the same Sunne ayre water and other things necessarie for this life But howe standeth this with his maintenance of the Popish Hierarchie and Iurisdiction so many popishe superstitions as he mainteyneth all whiche it were more reason he should refuse then to haue cōmon with them and other things of most necessarie vse But it is not for nothing that he obiecteth this for by this meanes hee hath gotten the aduātage of stuffing his booke with another mans labours In deede if it be a faulte in a booke to be little as hee scorned the booke of cōmon prayer presented of late in Parliament for being litle he hath founde a good remedie to auoyde that fault which is easilie auoyded if one write so many not sentences but pages and leaues as he hath done out of other mens bookes The Authour he alleadgeth is one Gellius a godly learned man as appeareth by his writings but where he saith it may seeme the declaration tooke many things out of him he is greatly deceyued for the declaration was written not a fewe yeres before the booke of Gellius which he saith so much is taken out As for his writing against the Anabaptists he hath dealt as may well cōmend both his pietie learning and be of verie good and profitable vse vnto the Church but to the matter of the declaration he sayth nothing at all Therfore there is no cause to make any answere to him who speaketh nothing against vs. But if he alleadge him because he otherwyse expoūdeth a text of scripture then the Declaration doeth it is not worth his labour of writing this being no new thing that good writers may take some one text in other sense then another doeth prouided that the sense be alwayes such as may stande with the proportiō of faith So as the declaratiō is no more in that case to be pressed with the opinion or authoritie of Gellius then Gellius or any other is to bee with his that wrote the Declaration Which yet if he will presse further the trueth is that the declaratiō in the exposition of the 12. to the Romanes the 12. of the former epist to the Corinthians hath both the trueth it selfe to beare witnes to it and the best writers of this age For it is cleare that the worde Gouernor in those places noteth only ecclesiasticall officers all sure and circūstances of that place so inforcing it Another point he would take of Gellius is that he saith that Magistracy and ministerie haue bin most nearely ioyned togither euen from the beginning as appeareth by Moses Aaron Which is godly truly said of Gellius but what is this either for the replier or against the declaratiō The reason gathered hereof is such as I thinke no man of reason would haue looked for that is as he noteth in the margent that the ciuill Magistrate hath euer frō the beginning bin ioyned with the ecclesiasticall ministery intending thereby that then it must needes haue bin so likewise in the primitiue Church But Gellius his meaninge is so farre from this as it may seeme hee hath bene cousined in it and giuen to light credite to other that haue abused him or els to haue vsed small eyther diligence or conscience in this collection For the purpose of Gellius is farre other in that place namely to shewe that Magistracie and ecclesiasticall ministerie are not as the Anabaptistes would haue it thinges that can not stande togither For