Law that had its rise from the Pope for Tythes and wee 'l tell our hearers that the Magistrate gives us them and wee 'l threaten to trouble and Sue them if they will not pay us and thereby seek to terrifie and affright People that they may be forced to pay us and so we will drive on our Trade by all the Policy and force we can and seek by all means to have the Quakers suppressed either by Persecution Imprisonings or taking away their Goods for Tythes in many places to the value of five or ten times more then the Tythes come to and now if these things will not do to overcome these Quakers as we see notwithstanding all their sufferings they grow and encrease upon us then will we make more complaints against them and tell the Magistrates they are a dangerous People they will overthrow both Ministers and Magistrates and will not spare the Supream Magistrate himself if they be suffered to go on therefore now let them be Banished for we cannot live in quiet nor quietly drive on our Trade for them but they will need be Checking and Reproving us for our taking Tythes and Preaching for gain and our seeking to compell men to our way and Worship and to Impose Religion upon men contrary to their Faith and Conscience All these things with many other deceits are these Treacherous Clergy-men and Persecuting Priests guilty of in themselves as by their Fruits and Doctrines is apparent So that the Lord hath made them contemptible and base before all People Mal. 2.9 And whereas in pag. 11. C. W. Accuseth us of Insolencies and Lybels which he saith so far as they reflect upon the Publick and do tend to the disturbance and subversion of the Nation and Common-wealth so far the Magistrate is bound not to suffer such Insolencies to go unpunished c. For when the Child shall behave himself proudly against the Antient and the Base against the Honourable Isa. 3.5 Then the Magistrate must remember that he ought to punish evil doers and if he do not punish such disorders but is sparing in this kinde because of a Temporizing Spirit and out of base fear or because of any selfish Carnal Policy God will assuredly punish him for his Sin of Negligence Answ. 1. As for Lybels or Insolencies tending to the subversion of the Nation which this Priest would have the Magistrate to punish us for hereof he hath accused us falsly and shewed a spirit of Envy and Persecution against us for which I know no ground he hath against us either to accuse us in this manner or to seek to Instigate the Magistrate against us but onely because the Lord our God hath raised us up in Righteousness to bear witness against the deceits and unrighteous Practices Persecution and Oppression that such Teachers as are of his Affinity are guilty of and their making a Trade and a Gain of their Preaching which we have in the Spirit of Truth born witness against both in our words Writings and Books which scornfully and falsly this Priest calls Lybels though wha we speak and write be agreeable to the Scriptures of Truth and neither this said Priest nor any of his Brethren the Priests have ever yet cleared themselves of those things which we have laid to their charge in our Books 2. What we speak and write in Truth and Righteousness against the Priests oppression covetousness and Preaching for forced Maintenance doth not at all tend to subvert the Nation as he would possess the Magistrate but to establish the Nation in Peace and free it from much bondage oppression persecution and suffering which the covetous hireling Priests have brought upon it which if it were free from those things and people left free to the Lord to lead and order them by his Spirit in matters pertaining to Religion and Conscience and only the Magistrates to punish evil doers and to be a praise to them that do well and not to lend their ears to the Priests to be their drudges and executioners in persecuting and imprisoning conscientious men because they cannot maintain them in their oppression I say then the Nation would be more at peace and all that are conscientious and moderate in it more satisfied And the Priests might be tryed if they would Preach freely and live of the Gospel as the true Ministers did for if God hath ordained that they that Preach the Gospel shall live of it he is able to fulfil his own Ordinance without their forcing Maintenance by a Law from people or suing them at Law for Tythes in which thing the Priests have manifested themselves to be both out of the Ordinance of God and example of all his Ministers 3. By their so much seeking to incense the Magistrate to punish and persecute us for bearing witness against their covetous practices and false principles it appears they are afraid their Trade should fail them and go down as it hath already failed many of them whilst they are putting one another out of their Livings and places where they have upheld their unrighteous Trade for their Bellies as those that bite and devour one another 4. And as to that of Isa. 3.5 of the Child's behaving himself proudly against the Antient this was in Israel when they oppressed one another which pride and oppression we are not guilty of but the proud and covetous Clergy But whereas this C.W. accuseth us as behaving our selves proudly against the honourable one seeming reason for it a little before is pag. 10. he saith That we do continually all along use those disdainful tearms of Thee and Thou and the like scornful expressions and saith That this is directly contrary to the Rule of the Gospel c. and it is also contrary to the example of the Apostle Paul when he was reproached by Festus c. the Apostle doth not say Thee and Thou but most noble Festus c. Act. 26.24 Answer This accusation reflects upon all the Holy men of God spoken of in Scripture who used the words Thee and Thou to a single person and You and Ye onely as pertaining to a number or to more than one as if they all used disdainful and scornful expressions and as if they therein directly transgressed the Rule of the Gospel this is but a bad and unequal judgement and apparently false for Paul himself used Thou to Festus and several times both Thee and Thou in signification to King Agrippa who was in greater Authority than Festus Act. 25.10 Chap. 26.2 3 27 29. and multitudes of examples more might be instanced for this As also this man can use Thee and Thou to God in his Prayers and he and his Brethren have learned that plain language in their Grammer which distinguisheth between the singular and plural number though now he hath accused us with using disdainful tearms for using that plainness of speech which he hath formerly learned in which thing the very Heaâ—hen may judge the pride of
forth persons zealously to things that is just holy and good and now he tells you it is the true Spirit of God and so is plainly to be known it 's well that at length he speaks some Truth though to his own confusion as all that are sober may easily see M. C. accuseth one of us with saying That Christ was never seen with any carnal eye nor his voice heard with any carnal ear and to prove it cites a Book entituled A Declaration to the Baptists pag. 13. and another with saying That the Flesh of Christ is a Figure for which he cites Saul's Errand c. pag. 14. To the former of which I say Christ as he is truly to be seen and known in the Spirit is a mistery not seen nor heard with the carnal eye or ear with which agreeth his saying viz. He that seeth me seeth him that sent me who is not carnally to be seen neither had the unbelievers either heard the voice of God or seen his shape though he spake by his Son Christ and some that outwardly Christ spake to understood not what he said because they heard not his Word Joh. 8.19 43. 12.45 2. And as for the words in Saul's Errand p. 14. what is said of Christ there as also in pag. 8. hath relation to his coming in the flesh as therein being an example as in Pet. 2.21 and not in relation to the receiving his flesh in the mistery as it is the Believers meat for that is the substance but as to his outward manifestation in the flesh he was God an example which was the very intent of the words Example or Figure being used in the said Book for in some sence they have relation to one thing as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and whether is it better for us to say that Christ as in the flesh was an example or for M. Caffin to say That in one sence the flesh of Christ profited nothing as he hath in pag. 41 set any rational man judge of this And M. C. saith That the eternal Spirit which dwelt in the man whom the Jews crucified which Spirit the Apostles received in them is not the Christ the Saviour of the world but the visible man c. I answer Here he seems to divide the man Christ from the eternal Spirit and so hath denied the eternal Spirit to be Christ but saith the visible man is Christ when as the Apostle saith The last Adam was made a quickning Spirit and the Lord is that Spirit 1 Cor. 15.2 Cor. 3. And if the eternal Spirit be not the Christ but the visible man then it follows that when the Apostle preacht that Jesus Christ was in the Saints he did not intend that the eternal Spirit was in them but the visible man which is both absurd and false But in answer to several cavils and objections made against us we own the true Christ both as he was of the seed of David according to the flesh and in the dayes of his flesh that he was the true Christ but not without the eternal Spirit and the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness who said Before Abraham was I am and as to his dying and rising again according to the Scriptures and as now glorified with the Father in the same glory that he was in before the world was This we confess according to the Scriptures without any such blind distinction as M. C. hath unjustly cast upon us And M.C. saith That the Quakers to deceive intend not the Truth namely that the visible man whom the Jews crucified wiâ—hout was the Christ. Answer This is a slander for they confess that Christ was crucified and died as concerning the flesh but was quickned by the Spirit 1 Pet. 3.18 M. C. God thereby bearing false witness to the world if the eternal Spirit which the Apostles afterward received in them be the Christ which Spirit never was slain never had blood to shed Answer This tends not only to render the Apostles as false witnesses who knew Christ in them and dwelling in their hearts and the second man to be made a quickning Spirit though before that he was known by some after the flesh and in the dayes of his flesh but also M. C. hath contradicted himself in pag. 46. where speaking of Christ of whom the Jews said he had a Devil but the Disciples knew him to be the Spirit of Truth he saith and in pag. 42. M. C. saith of Christ viz. Yet now henceforth saith the Apostle know we him so no more that is to esteem him upon that account viz. upon his being born of the Tribe of Judah and of the Seed of Abraham or for that reason meritoriously the Saviour of the World but rather upon the account of his coming down from Heaven his being the Son of God c. How sadly is M. C. lost and confounded herein one while to deny the eternal Spirit to be the Christ and to say but it was the visible man that was Christ another while to say as that he is not to be known or esteemed upon his being born of the Tribe of Judah but upon the account of his coming down from Heaven what then was he a visible man as he came down from Heaven or as he came of the Tribe of Judah and Seed of Abraham Here all may see this mans gross ignorance and confusion And what if the eternal Spirit never was slain never had blood to shed as in M. C. his account it doth not follow therefore that he is not a Spirit who descended from Heaven as such a one and in time took upon him flesh and blood Heb. 2.14 and was put to death as concerning the flesh who was the true Christ both in the dayes of his flesh in that low estate of suffering and in the state of Glory wherein he was before the world began And as to his condescention low estate and suffering as manifest in his People who have born in their Bodies the dying of the Lord and his blood or life which is poured forth and freely laid down of himself and fed upon in the Mistery by the Believers M. C. is not in a capacity to receive what might be said thereof And now to mend the matter he saith of Christ his being a quickning Spirit That if the Spirit as Spirit be the last or second Adam then it follows that the first man Adam who was of the earth earthly was first and before the eternal quickning Spirit pag. 42. 43. Answer Would any rational man have laid down such an absurdity as this for here he cannot deny but that the second Adam was made a quickning Spirit as in 1 Cor. 15. but would not have him as a Spirit to be the last or second Adam for if the Spirit as Spirit saith he so he would render the Apostles words false but I say Christ being called the second Adam which is the Lord from Heaven was
discern between such as are Serpents and such as are Lambs for we know the Promise of God fulfilled which saith Ye shall discern between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not and between the Righteous and the Wicked Mal. 3.10 and we neither judge of things before the time nor yet do we judge as these that have a beam in their own eye who are forbidden to judge but in the Spirit which hath opened and cleared our eyes do we speak the truth and appeal to the witness of God in every mans Conscience Again C. VV. hath condemned himself in the thing he allows for he forbids others to judge and yet he himself hath oftentimes judged us as for being in error setting up a false Light for keeping pride still in our hearts for refusing to pay Tythes from or out of covetousness for lightly esteeming the Rock of our Salvation for not following the Light which is in the Word for insolencies disorders and affronts for being tossed to and fro with every wind of Doctrin for being railers and revilers for consulting with flesh and carnal wisdom for having a mistery of iniquity in the midst of us for condemning all the settled Ministers of the Gospel c. These aspersions and accusations against us which are dispersed through his Book with many more of the like nature we do absolutely deny as being slanders that are unjustly cast upon us by him who hath taken upon him in hypocrisie to forbid others to judge as also his saying in pag. 7. That all sober-minded and serious Christians who are settled in the Truth do judge that the inventers and fomenters of our Way are the Jesuits and the Papists Satans subtile and busie Factors purposely to disturb the Truth amongst us in England c. Answer They who do so judge concerning us and our Way are neither settled nor established in the Truth of Christ for as for our Way it is the same that the holy men of God and true Christians of old owned and were in and it is Christ who is the Way the Truth and the Life whom we own which was never invented nor fomented by either Popish Jesuits Papists or Satans Factors And a clearer Testimony have we given against Popery than any of you who are in the Popish practice of taking Tythes and Sprinkling Infants and in many other things and principles both as to your education at Colledges that were built by the Papists and in your Preaching in their Mass-houses which you falsly call Churches and several other things wherein you agree with the Papist and are out of the Scripture example and Saints practices and then to save your selves would be accusing us of Popery And thou C. W. Hast accused us in pag. 7. For being very plain in our Garments and Apparel but alas sayest thou doth the Power of Humility consist onely in these External things why the Papists themselves in this External Humility do very far excell us for they Cloath themselves with Sack-cloth go bare footed c. yet saist thou Do I not like of their Religion neither can I approve of yours because it is like theirs Answer This is but a silly Argument either from thence to deem us Papists or to disapprove of our Religion for going plain in apparel is both according to the example of the Saints and the Apostles Doctrine who gave Testimony against both vanity in Apparel Pride of life and the Lust of the Eye which was after such things 1 Tim. 2. 1 John 2.16 and had we not better be in plainness of Apparel then in Cuffs Ribbonds and such like Fooleries as many of the Clergy-men wear And shall we be accounted Papists because we are in the Apostles Doctrine and shew an Example of Moderation and Sobriety to others and therefore must our Religion be disapproved of this is as bad an Argument as if C. W. had judged all to be Papists that Profess the Name of Christ and own the Saints Practices because the Papists do Profess his Name and in some things do Immitate the Saints or must we disown the Truth in any thing because evil men do Profess it and make a shew of it If C. W. have learned no better Logick then this he had better never have gone to the Vniversity to have learned his Trade and that Cost that was bestowed upon him for Learning was very ill bestowed but herein the World may see his weakness as they may see his falshood pag. 6. in his saying these words to Robert Howton viz. That which we demand from you is none of yours but ours for our Tythes were never purchased by your self or by your fathers before you c. which how false that is let all both Farmers and Free-holders in this Nation witness who when they Buy a Stock of Cattle all at their own charge for the Managing and tilling their Lands and Tenements and when they Buy the Corn they sow their ground withall and when men have purchased Lands by their own proper Cost and Charge and every part and parcel thereof for their own singular use as the Evidences are and are at so much Cost and Charges with Managing of them then for the Priests to claim the Tyth of Cattle Goods Corn Hay c. to claim it as their own and say it s none of theirs who purchased both the Lands Goods and bought the Corn by which it was sown let any indifferent Persons judge of their falshood and unrighteousness in this thing IV. Of the Light within both Natural and Spiritual Men. And as concerning the Light that is within C. Whately accuseth us With shamefully undervaluing the Holy Scriptures and setting up a false Light that is within us above the true Light that is in the Scripture for it is our constant language look to the Light that is within you not knowing that we are by nature wretched miserable poor blind and naked and therefore it is that the Lord hath given us his holy Word which we call the Scriptures to be a Lanthorn to our feet and a Light to our paths What you call Light we may well call Darkness p. 6. As also he saith pag. 9. You do lightly esteem the Rock of your Salvation the Truth of Christ c. all this proceeds from hence because you follow that Light which is in you and not that Light which is in the Word and Spirit c. Answer In these things are we very grosly wronged and the Truth much abused by this our Accuser For 1. We neither undervalue the Holy Scriptures neither do we lightly esteem the Rock of our Salvation either in Preaching the Light within or any other principle held by us but therein do both own the Rock of Salvation and the Scripture for it is the Light of Christ the Rock of Salvation and no false Light that we Preach and own which is the true Light that enlightens every man that cometh into the World Joh. 1.9 And
because they have the Spirit of Christ in their hearts and therefore they are without sin To which I answer As for what he saith the Quakâ—rs say of themselves and that they say still they are without sin this is a falshood and herein hath he wronged them and their words for they do not go about to set forth themselves in any justification of themselves and of their own states as some mistake them and as this man implies against them but to vindicate the Truth in general and to shew forth Christ and his Work and Righteousness which is to be known within For know you not that Jesus Christ is in you except you be Reprobates 2 Cor. 13.5 and the end for which Christ is made manifest is to destroy sin and to make perfect 1 Joh. 3. Heb. 10.14 and this Work of Christ is known within which to bear witness of is no pride of heart as our Accuser saith And as these Scriptures mentioned by him from whence he seems to plead for sin so far as they either relate to the state in which all are sinners and none Righteous or to the state wherein some are in the spiritual warfare warring against sin or where sometimes the Apostles condescended as to number themselves amongst them that had sin and so condescended to speak of states below their own as having been in them I say these Scriptures do not reach all states and conditions for he that is born of God that hath obtained victory over sin who walketh after the Spirit of God and he that abideth in Christ sinneth not being washed and cleansed by the blood of Christ which cleanseth them that walk in his Light from all sin See 1 Joh. 1.9 Chap. 3. Rev. 1.5 and it is said Thy People shall be all Righteousness Isa. 60.21 And blessed are the undefiled in the way they also do no iniquiry Psal. 119.1 2 3. Ézek 36.25 So that what we called Quakers do hold in this thing is a true Testimony against all the Ministers of unrighteousness who contend and plead for sin the term of Life and number the Righteous that are in Christ among the wicked who are out of the way and none of them Righteous nor that doth good no not one Rom. 3.10 which Scripture C. VV. hath brought against Perfection and so like the deceivers of old that put no difference between the Holy and profane VI. Of studying old Authors and receiving the Gospel c. And whereas in the Paper from them called Quakers it 's said That the Apostles received not the Gospel at Oxford or Cambridge nor by studying old Authors c. to this C. VV. replies Perhaps the Apostles were never in England I may pay you in your own Coin thus viz. the Apostles never received the Gospel at Colonel Vivers his House in Banbury nor at any of the Quakers Meeting-places in Braughton or Bloxham or Tadmerton I answer This is as unfit a parallel as his comparing their Preaching if they are desired when they are upon a journey about their own occasions with the Apostles going forth on purpose in obedience to Christ to Preach freely and Paul's speaking in the Synagogue when the Rulers required him Act. 13. when as he did not then go about a worldly occasion but went on purpose to Preach Christ among the Jews for which he often suffered persecution among them which the Priests who stand in mans will are loath to do but to the former parallel I say that the Quakers Meetings in these said places mentioned and other places where the Gospel is freely preached among them and where they feel the Presence and Power of God among them are both according to the Example of the Saints spoken of in Scripture who often met in Houses Joh. 2.19 Act. 10.27 Chap. 12.12 20.8 28.30 31. and their Meetings are more justifiable than the Priests education to their Ministry at Oxford or Cambridge according to man's will by natural learning and studying Philosophy and old Authors all which a natural man may do that never knew Christ and for which manner of education to their Ministry they have no example from Christs Ministers but from the Papists and such as are in the Apostacy And as for the Apostle Paul's mentioning what some of the Greek Poets said Act. 17.28 viz. In him we live and move and have our Being which is brought to prove the Priests studying old Authors to Preach from them I say this doth not prove their Practice in that thing for we neither read that the Apostle did either study old Authors for his Ministry or gathered Sermons out of them to Preach as the Priests do but only that he mentions the words of their own Poets to come over the Idolaters and Heathen for the thing contained in these words he needed not study old Authors for having learned the same thing from Christ in his Gospel which he received not from man nor by studying old Authors as the Priests do but by the Revelation of Jesus Christ Gal. 1. VII Of Womens keeping silence in the Churches And as concerning those Women which were commanded to keep silence in the Churches and to learn of their Husbands at home 1 Cor. 14.34 35. from hence C. VV. saith 1. That by your Women who are commanded to keep silence in the Churches is meant the Female Sex 2. And by Husbands is meant Husbands in the flesh c. his Reasons are that the Female sex ought to be under obedience and that men have no Husbands and that a woman can never be a man and a man can never be a woman c. And 2. It is meant Husbands in the flesh because we have but one Husband in the Spirit and because the Text speaks of Husbands at home c. To which I answer That what the Apostle said of Womens keeping silent in the Church doth not relate to every state and condition as to tye all the Females from ministering the Truth nor was what he to the Corinthians commanded in that case given as a general Rule to all others so as to limit the Spirit of God from speaking in either Male or Female and there were some Women that had no Husbands in the flesh to learn of but it had relation to the state that he then saw those Women in who were commanded to keep silent and to be in subjection and to learn of their Husbands and not to usurp So we say that they who are yet untaught themselves and have their learning to seek and who would be usurping whether they be Males or Females they are to be in silence and under obedience according to the Law but there is a farther state in Christ where he is formed in either Male or Female and where he is come to speak in either than that which is under the Law or that wherein people are unlearned or the state of Eve that was deceived or of the Woman that would usurp over the