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spirit_n bear_v son_n witness_n 5,359 5 7.9501 4 false
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A72176 A dialogue bewteene a papist and Protestant applied to the capacity of the vnlearned. Made by G. Gifford, preacher in the towne of Maldon. Seene and allowed according to the order appointed. Gifford, George, d. 1620. 1599 (1599) STC 11849.5; ESTC S125231 92,498 190

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certaintie to trie the trée and to know it by the fruite And hath the spirit which made them and preserueth them so lost his power and are his qualities and operations so weake that he cannot bée discerned from the spirit of the diuell Are his fruites such as they cannot be discerned from the rotten fruites of the flesh and the workes of darknes Ephes 1. Rom. 8. Saint Paul saith that we are sealed with the holy spirit of promise he willeth mē to walke after the spirit not after the flesh he setteth forth the fruites of the flesh Galath 5. and the fruites of the spirit Rom. 8. He saith that this spirit doth beare witnesse vnto our spirit that we are the sonnes of God This should bee but a weake witnesse if wee should not bée able to know whether we haue him or not But perhaps all these scriptures many other which I could cite haue not light enough in them for your blind eyes and therefore I will shew ye the thing more fully thus A man heareth the word of God preached 1. Cor. 12. it striketh his heart and conuerteth him wheras before he was as blind as a béetle now he séeth the light whereas before he had no loue to the holy word of God now his hart is inflamed with zeale and delight in it whereas before his care was of this world couetousnes did cause him gréedily to séeke vnlawfull gaine now his mind is bent vpon heauenly things and after them he séeketh whereas before he was full of adulteries riot wantonnes vanity now his wicked affections are tamed and altered he much abhorreth such filthines and whereas before he could neuer cease doing euill he was neuer at ease but when he delighted himselfe in some vngodlinesse now he is a man quite changed he doth much lament and sorrow that euer he was so wicked to despise God all his ioy is now to doe good workes the feare of God is before his eyes now féeling this wonderfull chaunge in himselfe that he is new borne to God that he is a new creature he knoweth right well that he is lead by the holy spirit of GOD and that he hath wrought this new worke in him Pa. It seemeth by your talke that such as haue receiued the spirit are so sure that they cannot be deceiued To what purpose then was Saint Paul so carefull to warne the true Christians to take heede yea we may see that there were diuers of them seduced This is quite contrarie to that certaintie which you doe speake of Pro. There is no cōtrariety in these things for if any were seduced and drawne away frō the truth vnto destruction it is most certaine they were neuer sealed with the spirit but had some small taste He laboureth with the other to haue them grow strong to bee grounded and rooted in the trueth not to bée as children carried away with euery blast of vaine doctrine for the blessed Apostle Saint Peter describing such false Teachers as you 2. Pet. 2. sheweth that they shall beguile vnstable soules Such therefore as will not bee seduced neither by you nor any other heretikes must abound in knowledge and grace for so wee are willed If the wisedome of the holy Ghost be in vs and hath inlightened vs the subtiltie of the diuell and the power of darknesse shall not ouercome vs the power of the holy Ghost is greater then the power of Satan and for this cause we are sure of victorie If this were not we could haue but small comfort we should he but in woe case It is not your greasie pope which could helpe vs which himselfe is ouercome of the diuell and obeyeth his will Pa. Well well for this matter I say still that your doctrine is new that ye condemne all our forefathers and whereas you would seeme to proue that it is the ancient Catholike faith because ye proue it by the Scriptures I say you proue nothing for the Scriptures can proue nothing without the interpretation of the Church you can not interprete neither can ye iudge but the great shepheard whose voyce ye should heare must giue the sense therefore I say still that ye be heretikes all the packe of yee and but that I spare ye I could bite ye a little better I am sorie ye bee so wilfull Pro. When ye haue spent all your powder then yée retire backe againe into your castle which is so sure as you suppose that nothing can batter the walles but when a man doth view them well he shall finde them to be but painted clothes For in very déed ye stand obstinately and frowardly vpon certaine bare affirmations And when a man hath neuer so strongly confuted and disproued them yet ye alleadge them still But let this go and come to the rest Ye say ye could but that ye spare me or els that ye are musled bite me a little better I feare not your teeth for I trust your biting will not ranckle not because they bée not venime but because I am so well defensed that ye cannot fasten your téeth vpon me But spare not powre out all your poyson and doe your worst Pa. Yee doe but gibe and mocke at those things which I speake it is euen according to your profession yee are deriders of good things and of the true Catholike faith take heede it is better for ye to repent and to turne home againe to the holy Church which ye haue and doe dishonour I said that I did spare ye and it shall appeare now for I will touch ye a little neerer and yet but with the trueth not with all that I might say neither for it were infinite to rehearse all your abominable waies which ye walke in and are to bee charged withal A little shall suffice I say by your wicked and carnall doctrine euen your new Gospell ye teach all loosenes and licentious libertie to the flesh As for example ye denie the merits of good workes ye teach that men are iustified by faith without good deeds ye teach Election and Predestination and denie freewill and so by this meanes the people are brought to haue no care of good workes but to liue as they lust for thus it doth follow if we be iustified by faith alone what neede we care for good workes If we bee chosen and predestinate and haue no freewill left in vs to chuse or refuse then let God alone wee cannot further nor hinder our selues what should wee eare let vs then set cocke a hoope and take our pleasure while we be here this is your sweet doctrine thus ye teach Pro. I néede not maruell to heare ye threaten to bite me whē ye dare open your mouth to blaspheme the Lord God and to barke like a most filthie and prophane dogge against the most glorious Gospell of Christ Which howsoeuer ye belie it doth teach all heauenly puritie and care of good workes They bée conclusions of your owne
waight of it against ye But let your foolish words passe which deserue no answere and come again to the matter The next cause why such draugh as yours being but the foolish and doltish dreames of men hath such a shew of wisedome and that is the humblenes of minde which appeareth in such holy hypocrites as worship God after their own fantasie They doe so abase themselues and are as méeke and lowly as can be What can a man deuise to be more hūble then a deuout Papist he will doe any thing he is content to bowe downe and to licke vp the dust at the féete of a stock or a stone he doth so abase himselfe that he is content to worship rotten bones yea whatsoeuer the holy father of Rome will lay vpon him he is readie to beare his minde is so humble But this is not humilitie O ye blind asses but pride and haughtinesse of spirit euen against God against whom ye presume and take vpon ye to bee wiser then he because ye refuse the worship which he hath prescribed and think ye can frame a better of your owne This is the humilitie of you Papists in those good intents and deuotion which ye bragge so much of ye are like sturdie Rogues whom a man would take by their patched cloakes to be gentle and lowly when as indéede they be excéeding proude and rebellious against all good lawes The third last reason which S. Paul setteth downe why there is such a shew of wisedome in corrupt religiō is in this clause when he saith Not sparing the bodie for look how men which are proude men are moued with a shew of humilitie so also although they walke after the flesh and the flesh raigneth in them yet they like of mortification after a sort a shew whereof doth appeare in the outward punishing of the flesh which because they are able to attaine vnto they take it to goe for good payment and when they haue pined themselues with hunger for a while whipped themselues or gone barefooted and barelegged they suppose they haue mortified the flesh Alas poore wretches how humble they bée not to spare their bodies to take such paines to serue GOD and yet neuer the better For when their skinne is torne their heart is whole within still and as full of all vncleannesse as it was before These are the things which ye boast of and the Apostle saith They be of no price Colos 1. because they pertaine but to the filling of the flesh The Diuell hath bewitched men after this sort to leade them from the sight of the true mortification of the flesh through the spirit vnto outward things of no value Thus we may vnderstand that all your goodly shew which yee make is nothing worth all your religion is but superstition they do but lose their labour which trauell in it and are so farre off from pleasing God that he doth accurse and abhorre their doings Pa. A man may see what trim shifts you heretikes can make but for my part I am not moued one iot thereby to like of your religion For it cannot be good when there are so many sects among yee which it doth hatch and bring forth For your Gospell doth come into no place but by and by vp starts one and he doth maintaine this heresie another he doth maintaine that heresie and there is such snatching as if a man should shake out a bagge full of errors and euery one catcheth that which doth like him best for such effect doth follow of your preaching in all places If it were of GOD would this come to passe Can errors arise of true doctrine No this were enough to warne all wise men to take heed of ye and to flie farre from ye although there were no more In our religion we are all of one minde and agree together and therefore ours is the trueth All that will be saued must come and agree with vs. Pro. Nothing can moue you to bee of our religion and why Because it cannot be good Nay because it cannot haue your allowance to be good for the holy word of God is so perfectly good which is our whole religion that all the poyson which such venemous beasts as you are able for to vomite vp is not of force to infect it But I doe ye wrong for you shew a great reason why it cannot be good Well I will answere it The reason which ye vse here against vs is that bolt which ye haue taught euery foole to shoote but a very course armour will defend a man from it it giueth but a bumpe and neuer doth pearce but rebound backe againe Neuerthelesse because among you it is estéemed as a sharpe arrow and principall weapon I will take somewhat the more paines not onely to view it my selfe but also to let others sée the power thereof Trueth it is that whatsoeuer is of God or whatsoeuer is good cannot bring foorth that which is euill no more then darknesse can bring foorth light or heate can cause colde for how can any thing bréede that which is of a quite contrary nature to it selfe But say you Wheresoeuer your Gospell commeth there follow sundrie sects and heresies one maintaineth this and another that with sundry diuisions Therfore your Gospell is not of God it is not the trueth Before ye make this conclusion strong and sure ye must proue that as all sorts of errors do spring where the Gospell is preached which is so indéede that in like maner the Gospell is the cause of them and doth bréede them which ye shall neuer be able to doe For as Christ and his Gospell bring peace and yet he saith he came not to send peace Matth. 10. but a sword and to set the father against the sonne and the mother against the daughter and there shall be fiue in one house two against thrée and thrée against two euen so the Gospell is the trueth and setteth forth the doctrine of vnitie and yet wheresoeuer it commeth all kinde of errors spring vp Now euery wise man will confesse that Christ is the author of peace and the strife that ariseth betwéene men is not to be imputed to his doctrine but to the diuell and his seruants which warre and fight against vs because they hate it and séeke to banish it The same diuell is the cause of heresies for to discredite the word of God wheresoeuer it is taught he setteth vp his schoole also and will haue his schollers goe vnder the name of the Gospell For this is one of the readiest waies that can be to bring the word of God into contempt and to make men afraide of it Sée say they how many heresies these men fall into which meddle with the Scriptures were it not much better that there were no such preaching Pa. Doe ye then allow of strife and errors that ye will needes haue them to be companions of your Gospell Pro. If ye can gather that we allow