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A34470 A blow at the serpent; or a gentle answer from Madiston prison to appease wrath advancing it self against truth and peace at Rochester. Together with the work of four daies disputes, in the Cathedral of Rochester, in the Countie of Kent, betweene several ministers, and Richard Coppin, preacher there, to whom very many people frequentlie came to hear, and much rejoyced at the way of truth and peace he preached, at the same whereof the ministers in those parts began to ring in their pulpits, saying, this man blasphemeth, ... Whereupon arose the disputes, at which were some magistrates, some officers, and souldiers, peaceable and well-minded, and very many people from all parts adjacent, before whom the truth was confirm'd and maintained. The whole matter written by the hearers, on both sides. Published for the confirmation and comfort of all such as receive the truth in the love of it. By Richard Coppin, now in Maidston Prison for the witness of Jesus. Twenty five articles since brought against him by the ministers, as blasphemie, and his answers to them, how he was Coppin, Richard, fl. 1646-1659. 1656 (1656) Wing C6094; ESTC R215454 85,329 113

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man for I will demand of thee and answer thou me And so he goes on to reprove Job of his ignorance of God and in Chap. 40. 3. Job answers the Lord and saith bebold I am vile what shall I answer thee I will lay my hand upon my mouth once have I spoken but I will not answer yea twice but I will proceed no further and in Chap. 42. 3. he acknowledges his error and ignorance of God and answers the Lord saying who is he that hideth counsell without knowledge therefore have I uttered that I understand not things too wonderfull for me which I knew not but now hear I beseech thee and I will speak I have often heard of thee by the hearing of the care but now mine eyes seeth thee wherefore I abhor my selfe in dust and ashes Thus did Job in his life time see the King the Lord of Hosts his Redeemer standing upon and was a conqueror of that earth the first Adam which he first lived in the Image of till the second Adam appeared as at the last day of the first Adam in him which he before said should come and wa● now come to him For now doe mine eyes see thee Rosewell Pray read a little further and ye shall find that God saith his freinds had not spoken right of him as his servant Job had done and again this cannot be meant of his seeing his Redeemer for now ●is 〈…〉 ynes and reines was not consumed Coppin 'T is true Job never spoke the things that was right of the Lord till he said Now doe mine eyes see thee and this his friends could not say for they had not seen the Lord as his servand Job had therefore though after his skin wormes had destroyed his body yet in his flesh he did see God this skin was the good esteem he had of his own righteousnesse the pride and glory of his own flesh which he was stripped of for boasting in it and so saith Job He hath stripped me of all my glory and taken the Crown from off my head and the body that must be destroyed was the body of sin and corruption which was within him and is in all men for a time while they live in the corrupt state of the old Adam and the wormes are the terrors of the troubled minde which as Troops of Robbers feeds upon the flesh of the earthly man and Job had many in his flesh For my flesh saith he is cloathed with Wormes my skin is broken and become loathsome the arrows of the Almighty sticks fast in me his Archers compasse me round about and he cleaveth my reins in sunder Here was the destruction of Jobs body in his life time all his comforts were taken from him and all those things were fulfilled upon him and appeared in him and yet saith he after all this I shall see my Redeemer and so he did fo● when through the manifestation of God to him his soul within him was revived his knowledge and understanding enlightened and his reins with the girdle of saith strengthened then saith he Now do mine eyes see thee and I am no more my self but a new man in thee for now is my change come therefore cannot be meant of the body after a naturall death as you say it is Robison Of all Religions this is most damnable to say there is no Resurrection of the body Coppin I denie not any thing which any man can prove to be true from Scripture Rosewell I prove a corporall Resurrection of our bodies from the example of Christs Resurrection of his Body Coppin That was a signe to us of our rising with Christ to a newness of life both toward God and man Rosewell I denie the Resurrection of Christs body to be a signe Coppin You say the corporal Resurrection of Christ is no sign and yet you say againe it doth signifie the Resurrection of our bodies but the Scripture saith not so but saith That like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father even so we also should walk in newnesse of life and so will he change our vile bodies here and make them like unto his glorious bodie by subduing all things to himself in us which is the spiritualty and glory of our bodies Captain Smith We grant you that Coppin Then give me leave Christ being born of the Virgin Mary Was it also a signe to us or not Robison Was it but a signe to us and no substance C●ppin I doe not say so but I say it was a signe which I prove Isa. 7. 14. Therefore the Lord himselfe shall give you a signe behold a Virgin shall conceive and bear a Son and shall call his name Emanuel Now what did this signifie but that as the Virgin did bring forth Christ in our nature flesh blood and bones so should Christ bring forth himselfe in every one of us in Spirit and truth Gal. 4. 14. My little Children saith Paul of whom I travell in birth againe untill Christ be formed in you not as a bodie flesh and bones in us for that were to make many Christs as for every man one but he shall be formed in us in Spirit and power Rosewell I doe not believe but Christ is here said to be a signe but what is the thing signified that King Ahaz should overcome his enemies and that the Scepter should not depart from Juda till Shilo come Coppin That is till Christ come Spirituall in us or else what benefit is it to us to look back upon the birth and death of Christ as signes and doe not see the things signified For a wicked and adulterous generati●n seeketh after a signe and never looks on the thing signified which is the birth death and Resurrection of Christ in them which should all be made manifest in our mortall flesh and so saith Paul I doe always beare about in the bodie the dying also of the Lord Jesus that the life of Jesus might be made manifest in our bodie and now doe I rejoyce in my sufferings for you and do fill up the measure of the sufferings of Christ in my flesh for his bodies sake which is the Church whereof I Paul am made a Minister according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you to fullfill the word of God even the mysterie which hath been hid from all ages and now is made manifest to his Saints to whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mysterie which is Christ in you the hope of glory CHAP. VIII The Mystery of the Trinity in relation to man of the state of Reprobation when how long and how ROsewell I desire you may go on How is Christ in you the hope of glory Coppin Tell me what do you mean by Christ and then I will tell you how he is Christ the hope of glorie in man Rosewell I do mean by Christ the Son of God
in due time it shall be manifest to all for there is but the want of faith in men to believe it which is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen by which all men are assured and draw nigh unto God which in due time shall be manifest to all men Now if this Spirit of Faith and faithfull Witness the Lord Jesus thus manifest in men for the salvation of their soules will not keep men from licentiousness there is nothing will for which seriously consider the Apostles words in Titus 2. 11. We were wicked and sinfull saith he as well as others but when the grace of God which bringeth salvation to all men had appeared to us teaching us that denying all ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly and righteously in this present world speaking evill of no man for we our selves also were sometimes foolish disobedient deceived serving divers lusts and pleasures living in malice and envie and hating one another as well as others but after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to his mercie he saved us how why by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the holy Ghost and so saith Peter see that you lay aside all malice guile and hipocrisies and envyings and evill speakings and as new born babes desire the sincere milk of the Word that you may grow thereby if so be you hav● tasted that the Lord is gracions CHAP. XVII The complaint of Ministers to Magistrates against those that Preach without Orders from the Vniversitie the dutie of Magistrates not to forbid any but to reprove such complainers AGaine you say you would have men learn and study the Scriptures but not to Preach of them but sure that is for feare your trade of Preaching should goe downe and you to keep it up will cry out to the Magistrates to forbid and suppress all that declare any thing of the love of God to their soules and have not the like Orders from the Universities as you have concerning which read Numbers 11. there was Moses a Magistrate of the Lord and the Lord commanded him to gather unto him seventy of the men of Israell to assist him in the work of the Lord and to bring them up to the Tabernacle where they should receive the Spirit and to prophesie Now there were two men which did not come up to the Tabernacle as the rest did but tarried behind in the Camp and there received the Spirit and Prophesied whereof complaint was made to Moses of them saying Eldad and Medad doe Prophesie in the Camp my Lord Moses forbid them why saith Moses enviest thou for my sake I would all the Lords people were Prophets and that he would powre his Spirit upon them though they came not up to the Tabernacle yet having the Spirit let them prophesie So now if any man do declare any thing of God which hath not been at the Universitie woe he is immediatelie cried out against to the Magistrate as a blasphemer to be forbidden but God is not tied to place nor persons nor learning it is not your your Schools will make you Ministers of the Gospel no it is the Spirit of the Lord that doth make a Minister of the Gospel and it was the Spirit that made Christ a Minister for saith he the Spirit of the Lord is upon me therefore will I preach glad tydings of the Gospel and as everie man hath received the Spirit so let them administer without any forbiding Now you Magistrates you are set up for the punishment of evill doers and for the praise of them that doe well but are you like that godly man Moses a Magistrate of the Lords to discern the good which is to be praised and the evill which is to be punished and so to doe justice and righteousness to countenance Godliness if you were you would fordid none to Preach that speaks their experience of the things of God but would incourage all men and wish all the Lords people were Prophets and that he would powre his Spirit upon them and so like Moses reprove any that would have them forbid and then you would appear to be Magistrates of the Lord as Moses was and to doe the worke of God as Moses did for which the Lord instruct you all CHAP. XVIII A childs condition is Christs Kingdome their coming to him his hand laid on them they blessed by him of his arm to all men and when AGaine there is one thing more which you have said and that I must open That is you say that thousands of Children are now in hell for their originall sin which is a trouble to many people to heare such things asserted therefore what the Lord may discover to me at this time concerning this thing that will I declare to you That when the Lord Jesus would declare unto his disciples who were subjects fit for the Kingdome of God he takes a little child in his armes and sets him in the midst of them saying except you become as this child you cannot enter into the Kingdome of Heaven that is to become a child in the knowledg of things below Christ to know no more sin nor divell then a child doth and to be as meek and as humble as innocent and as harmlesse as a child is now Christ tells them they must be borne againe into a childs condition that is to be little even as nothing in their owne wisdome and not to know themselves able to act themselves forth in any thing neither in thought word or deed but in all things to be acted by another even God and this Spirituall birth Nicodemus a Ruler among the Jewes was ignorant of saying unto Christ How can a man be borne when he is old can he enter the second time into his Mothers womb and be born no saith Christ not so but except you be borne of the Spirit of Regeneration and the new birth and so become as a little child to know no evill sin nor divell nor any thing of selfe wisdome knowledge or righteousness which he was concieved in by that Mother the flesh or carnall mind but to be as one dead in all old things borne by that Mother and liveing againe in a new life to behold all things made new in him and Christ knew that a little child was the fitest subject he could compare a soule unto whereby he might know himselfe a subject fit for the Kingdome of God free from all sin Againe there were some that brought little children unto Christ that he should touch them and his Disciples reproved those that brought them and Christ said suffer little children to come unto me and forbid them not for of such is the Kingdome of God this Scripture I know is brought by the Ministers to prove the baptizeing of children with water though I denie
burne till it hath burnt up all the foundations and buildings of men in their several forms and Religions that are not founded upon Christ the Chief Corner Stone and this will be a Chaos and confusion and an end of the world to men And now what are you and what do you doe when you seek to imprison or banish this truth away from you which you know not and to stop those cleansing floods which the Lord hath opened in drie places for you and to quench those fierie coales which the Lord hath kindled amongst you to refine you you do but add a greater encrease to the truth for all that which is ungodlie selfish and wicked within you that hath opposed the truth shall be imprisoned by it and drowned with it yea it shall be burnt with the fire and melted with the heat until all be consumed and you dissolved into the nothingnesse of all things below God where you are all lost and you again swallowed up into his own Almightinesse where you are found in your true and everlasting Centre that sends you forth and takes you in at his pleasure And this is the begining and end of the world and of all your fighting against the truth to be lost and to be found to be and not to be and therefore look about you you that talk so much of the end of the world when Christ shall come do you know this end and when it shall be I will tell you my experience it is to your end and at your end that Christ doth come and therefore would you prolong his coming for his coming in will be your going out overturn overturn his rising will be your falling and his life will be your death for you are a lie and he is the truth therefore stay Lord Jesus and come not yet say you that know not his coming to be in you stay till the time of the end of the world which you would not have to be yet because your end must come with it but come Lord Jesus come quicklie say I and all those that know his coming to be in them that the world of sin death hell and all Devillishnesse may have an end in all men as in them that there may be no more wrath nor hatred no more fighting nor quarrelling disputing nor contending for the truth nor against the truth but that heaven and earth righteousnesse and truth may meet together and imbrance each other in all men and at all times places and things whatsoever according to the word and will of the Lord that there may be no more any thing at a distance neither truth nor error light nor darknesse day nor night but that in the evening there may be light and so but one day known to the Lord over all the earth one King and his name one But in the mean time you have here following Articles against the truth and answers for the truth The twenty five Articles called Blasphemy brought against Richard Coppin by the Ministers of Kent and for which he was sent to Prison with his Answers to them COppin First I denie all their Articles to be spoken by me as they are here laid down by them they having much abused my words and also my sense by their adding and diminishing yet for satisfaction to many people of the truth of that which may be in them I shall give a brief answer to them according to the plain sense of Scripture and the manifestations of God to men here on earth which so far as I ever knew in my self I alwaies declared and hid nothing of the counsel of God made known to men but for what God will do by man at the end of this life beyond what is revealed I leave also with him till he shall more reveal it Article 1. That all the Scriptures is but an Allegory that is all said he both Law and Gospel and that it is but an Allegory said he it is clear from Gal. 4. 24. Answer The whole Scripture of Law and Gospel the son of the Bond-woman and the Son of the Free-woman are the two Covenants in an Allegorie so saith Paul Gal 4. 24. which things saith he are an Allegory for those are the two Covenants The Allegorie is in this , Abraham had two sons the one by a Bond-maid the other by a Free-woman the Bond-maid is the Law or first Covenant the Free-woman is the Gospel or second Covenant in a mysterie and these also are the two Jerusalems Sina and Sion the one which is below as in bondage the other which is above as in freedome which are also the two mothers of the children after the flesh and the children after the spirit they who live by the works of the Law under the conditions of the first Covenant and so not all their sins to be forgiven them are the sons of the Bond-woman after the flesh and are in bondage with their mother to this day persecu●ing the sons of the Free-woman born after the spirit that lives by free grace and sees their sins pardoned Secondly the carnal mind of man is the son of the Bond-woman after the flesh minding the things of the flesh which is death the spiritual mind is the son of the Free-woman after the spirit minding the things of the spirit which is life for so it is written To be carnally mindad is death but to be spiritually minded is life and peace and this son of the Bond-woman is to be cast out as no more to be remembred for he shall not be heir with the son of the free-woman for he understands not the things of the spirit of God but they are foolishnesse unto him neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned but the spiritual man knoweth all things yea the deep things of God and therefore lives in God as in peace and freedome and is no longer in bondage Thus is the Scripture an Allegorie and a great Mysterie for great is the mysterie of godlinesse and saith Christ you erre not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God Article 2. That our Jesus took our defiled nature with sin and was a sinner in that nature Answer That Jesus Christ took on him our sinful nature and in it destroyed the sinfulnesse of it is a truth according to these Scriptures Forasmuch as the children are partakers of flesh and blood Jesus Christ himself likewise took part of the same that through death he might also destroy him that had the power of death which is the Devil c. and God made Christ to be sin for us laid upon him the iniquities of us all and he did bear them in his own bodie on the Tree which is no blasphemie to say but that he should be a sinner in that nature I never said it neither do affirm as you would have it Article 3. That he was a cursed Goat for the Goats on the left hand
hell or devill to be judged or condemned in man And that every eare and eye that heares and sees any thing besides Christ shall be made deafe and blind and every mouth that speaks any thing besides Christ the truth shall be stopped that so the Lord himself may be all in all and saith Peter The time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God and if it begin at us what shall the end be of them that obey not the Gospel of God why all shall come to judgment every man in his order at the time when the Lord shall appear unto them And this is not a visible temporal Judgement on the bodies of men but invisible in the hearts of men which is the Temple unto which God will come and dwell in for the Lord whom you seek will suddainly come to his Temple and there sit as a Refiner and Purisier of silver and will take away his drosse and tyn and try them as gold is tried therefore he saith he will send the Spirit and he shall convince the world of sin of righteousnesse and judgement and when the Lord doth so come to judgement then shall everie mans book be opened and they shall be judged according to the things written in their books which books are the consciences of men bearing witnesse either for them or against them accusing or else excusing one another in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to his Gospel and this is the manner of the Lords proceeding to judgement in the day of the Gospel which to the Lord is but as one day though thousand of years Head a Lawyer said This is damnable Doctrine what need a coming to judgement if all shall be saved you are a Blasphemer and destroyes the Fundamentals of Religion by your impudency Coppin Though all men shall be saved yet not without judgment But Sir I perceive you are a Lawyer it may be hath a fee given you then plead Law for it the Gospel allowes of none but though you may know the Law better then I it may be I may know the Gospel as well as you and you see I have declared a judgement according to the Gospel and have proved it all along if you understand it and if any man can prove any other Judgement day besides this which I have proved let him declare it And I also prove that this Judge the Lord Jesus doth accuse no man but he that is the accuser of the brethren is the devil who shall be cast out and his accusation made void for man while he lives under the law lives under wrath and is accused by the law but when the Lord Jesus comes to any soul as a Judg to fulfill the law he declares himself accused and condemned for that soule and so frees him from the law and quiteth him of the accusation and now Christ accuseth not but Moses and yet saith he You will not come to me that you may have life but though you receive another that comes in his own name father then me that comes in my Fathers name yet doe not think that I will accuse you to the Father no but there is one that doth accuse you even Moses in whom you trust Rosewell John 5. is meant Christ will not accuse them to the Father yet Christ doth accuse them which doth oppose his Gospel and will doe it and will throw them to the nethermost hell at the last day in everlasting torment soul and body and therefore I desire you all as you tender the glory of God and the good of your own souls have a care of such a dangerous blasphemer as this which in such a high nature doth blaspheme the great God of heaven Isa. 26. Thy hand is lifted up and they will not see it but they shall see it and be ashamed for their envie at the people the fire of thy enemies shall devoure their persons at the last day Coppin You may apply this unto your self for your own envie that hath appeared at this and other times but doe you bring this to prove destruction of persons eternally at the last day which is no such thing here meant Rosewell I doe confesse a Spirituall Judgment Day Coppin That have I affirmed all this while for the which you crie out against me to be a blasphemer c. Rosewell But there is another day of judgment which will be at the last day Coppin Pray doe you prove a second day of judgment you have confest the first which I proved to you and I denie not your second if you can prove it to me also prove the destruction of persons as you say Rosewell Faelix did tremble when he did heare of judgment to come Coppin This judgment was to come on him then and is to come on all now on whom it hath not yet appeared for the destruction of sin Rosewell It doth appear there is no such judgment known unto you Jude 15. but the Lord will come visibly as a man from heaven and all his Saints with him to sit upon his Throne and to execute judgment and to convince all that are ungodly Coppin You should declare where this place of Judgment is and when it is and what this Throne is on which he sits Rosewell I will not tell you you shall know it when it doth come and therefore cease to pervert Scripture Coppin I do not at all judg or condemn you for speaking your judgment in what things you know though you do judg me for you can but speak as you have received according to your measure and so do I. Rosewell He doth mainly labour to deny any Judgment to come on any mans person Coppin I tell you again I denie nothing which you can prove to be true it is your work now to prove this Judgment Day you speak of as I have done mine Rosewell There is a Hell of fire and brimstone for ever Coppin You would do well to prove what you mean by it now before this people Rosewell You have here said that Christ was a sinner Coppin You said these words I never said them but said that he was in himself holie harmlesse just and good Rosewell You said the nature he did take was sinful and you have denied the Resurrection of the Body and do affirm that all men shall be saved Coppin It is a sign there is no more in you to declare because you go over with the same things again and again But how are you assured of your own salvation tell me that Rosewell I do believe he hath saved me and that one day he will do it Coppin If he hath done it alreadie then it is no more to do and it is better to believe that you are saved then that you shall be saved CHAP. XIII The practise of Magistrates and Ministers discovered how they one uphold another to serve not the Lord but