Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	bear_v	flesh_n	john_n	7,151	5	7.0455	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A87231	The Quakers quaking: or, the foundation of their deceit shaken, by scripture, reason, their own mouthes at several conferences. By all which will appear, that their quaking, ministery, doctrine, and lives, is a meer deceit, and themselves proved to be the great impostors of these latter times: / by Jeremiah Ives.	Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674.	1656 (1656)	Wing I1103; Thomason E883_3; ESTC R207296	36,620	64

world in general but more especially out of love to my Brethren whose feet many of them are taken in this Snare not knowing that they are for their lives And if God shall bless these Lines either to the prevention of the falling of them who through grace yet stand or to the restoring of those that are fallen or if otherwise I have mistaken any thing God will bring this good of my mistake if in case any be found as to raise up and provoke some one or other to make my mistake manifest If by these Lines I obtain any of these ends which I do not much question then sure I am that I have not run in vain but shall give God the glory while I am able to subscribe my self Jeremiah Ives POSTSCRIPT READER AFter I sent my book to the Press I had another Conference with James Nayler on the 22 of June 1656. at the Bull and Mouth neer Aldersgate which was as followeth The people being met and James Nayler standing up to speak I did desire that James Nayler would prove that which he had so often afferted viz. That every man in the world had the Light within him spoken of in John 1. To this James Nayler replyed saying That Christ did inlighten every man that came into the world according to Joh. 1. To this I answered That I did not oppose the saying of that Text but his saying which was That every one in the world had the Light within him Spoke of in that Text. To this James Nayler replies saying He would have me bring him a man in that place that would say the Light of Christ was not in him To this I did answer First that every man in the world was not in that place and therefore if every one in that place should say This Light was in them it did not follow that therefore that Light spoken of Joh. 1. was in every one in the world But secondly I told him That if every one in that place would say they had this Light in them it did 〈…〉 as I fear many of this generation do I did therefore bid James Nayler to give me a Scripture to prove that every one had the Light within them spoken of Joh. 1. He answers That it was proved already in every mans Conscience but saith he it is not evidenced for if it were there would need no Teaching To this I replyed that if it were proved to every mans conscience then it was EVIDENCED for proof and evidence to the conscience was one and the same which he denied I further told him That the conscience might be misguided and therefore it did not follow that a thing is therefore true because a man in conscience thinks it so I therefore as before call'd for a plain Text for proof of what he said He thereupon brings Eph. 5.13 2 Cor. 4.6 I told him Neither of these Scriptures did prove That every man in the world had the Light within him spoken of Joh. 1. and therefore if he had any Scripture that said it he would do well to produce it and if not to forbear preaching any such thing that he could shew no Scripture for Hereupon James assumes an Apostolical Authority and saith That though there were no Scripture that said what he said yet it might be true for saith he the Apostles said many things that THEY had no Scripture for To this I replyed That he was no Apostle and therefore as before call'd for a proof of this notion that they preach in most places where they come viz. That everyone hath this Light within him He hereupon demanded How Christ was the Light that lighteth every one that comes into the world if this Light was not in every one To this I did answer as formerly That God and Christ were usually said in Scripture-dialect to do things for the world when they did use a means sufficient for the doing of it and so Christ is said to take away the sin of the world and to be the Saviour of the world and the Saviour of ALL men though all men shall not be saved inasmuch as he hath by his dying for the world put all men into a salvable capacity In like manner he lighteth every one that comes into the world inasmuch as he useth means for the bringing the world to the Light though all have not this Light WITHIN them Again I told James Nayler That this Light in Joh. 1. was Christ who is the Light of the world and if every one had this Light in them then every one had Christ in them But I told him that could not be because we reade Eph. 2. of some that were WITHOUT Christ I further told him That the Scriptures told us of some that had NO Light in them Joh. 11.10 Isa 8.20 He answered That possibly God had put out their Light because they did not walk according to it To this I did reply That then he did contradict himself for if some had no Light in them because God had put it out How could he say EVERY ONE HATH this Light IN him But further the Text in Joh. 11. saith that If A MAN walks in the dark he stumbles BECAUSE there is NO Light IN him Now I told James Nayler That those that he sayes he turns from darkness are such as WALK in darkness by their own confession and if so then whether it be not better to say with the Texts There is no light in him then to say contrary to the Text with the Quakers that when men walk in darkness The light of Christ is in them Hereupon James Nayler asked If the heathen had not a Light I told him first that they might have a light among them that they might not receive within them And secondly that though they had a Light in them yet this did not prove that the Light which they had was the Light spoken of Joh. 1. which Light is Christ Jesus which is the thing they affirm I therefore did intreat him to reconcile their Doctrine with Joh. 11.10 Their Doctrine is that Every one hath the Light of Christ within him John saith If a man walk in the dark he stumbleth because there is NO Light IN him To this James Nayler replyed that there were two seeds in man and there was an old man and a new man and a man born after the flesh and a man born after the Spirit so that saith he he that is the old man and born after the flesh he hath no Light in him I then asked him How every one that comes into the world hath the light of Christ in him if he that is born after the flesh have not the Light within him for as I then told him no man comes into the world but he is born after the flesh He answers that I spake like a Sot in saying that very man that came into the world was born after the flesh for saith he Christ was not born after

Because I have purged thee and thou wast not purged that is as if God had said I have done that which was sufficient for thy purgation And the like in Joh. 1.29 Christ is called The Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world though he that believes not shall dye in his sins the meaning then must not be that every man hath his sins pardoned In like manner then when the same pen saith that as he taketh away the sins of the world ver 29. so he doth inlighten every one that comes into the world ver 9. which is as much as if he had said Jesus Christ by his blessed mediation hath done that which is able to effect pardon of sins for the world and which also is able to inlighten and inform the world into the knowledge of it How then doth this Text prove That every man hath this Light within him any more then the other Texts proves every mans sins were took away the latter of which themselves will not allow But further if every man hath received this Light Joh. 1. then every man hath received Christ for he is that Light ver 9. But every man hath not received Christ Ergo. The minor I prove from the 11 ver of the same Chapter He came to his own and his own received him not and the Builders were said to refuse him Matth. 21.42 and many other places But if they shall think to be relieved at this turn with this distinction viz. That it is one thing to have the Light and another thing to receive it Then I demand If this Light was not received how can it be in all men unless they are born with it Secondly whether men HAVE ANY THING but what they have RECEIVED according to I Cor. 4.7 especially any Light or Knowledge of Jesus Christ Lastly whether the Scriptures do make a distinction between a mans having the Spirit of Christ or the Light of Christ within him and his receiving Christ and receiving of the Spirit within him or in his heart as the Apostle phrases it Rom. 8. But to proceed Doth not the Scripture say John 11.10 That He that walks in the dark stumbles because there is NO LIGHT in him And Isa 8.20 If they speak not according to this rule it is because there is NO LIGHT in them and yet these say Every man in the world hath the Light within him spoken of John 1. which Light is Christ Thirdly In opposition to another of their Errours I shall prove That the day of Judgement is not past which I prove thus If the Heavens and the Earth are reserved to the Fire of that Judgement-day then is it not past already But the Heavens and the Earth are reserved to the fire of that day therefore that day is not past already The major is unquestionable For if they are yet kept from the fire of that day and are reserved to the fire of it then it followeth That none bath seen that day because the Heavens have not felt the heat of it The minor is proved out of 2 Pet. 3.7 Again if the day of the perdition of the ungodly be not past then the day of Judgement is not But the day of the perdition of the ungodly is not therefore the day of Judgement is not Again if in that day all must give account of the deeds done in the body and there are thousands and ten thousands that have not given an account then it follows that the day of Judgement is not past But there are thousands and ten thousands that have not given an account of the deeds done in the body therefore the day of Judgement is not past already Again if the day of Judgement be past already then the Resurrection is past already But the Resurrection is not past already Ergo. The major I prove from John 5.29 The minor I prove thus In the Resurrection they neither marry nor give in marriage But now men do both therefore they are not in the Resurrection Fourthly They say There is no Baptism but that of the Spirit In opposition to which I do affirm a Baptism with water which I prove from Mark 16.16 and Matth. 28.19 * Act 2.38 41. 8.3 6. 10.4 7. And that the baptism here commanded was water-baptism it appears by what I have already said by way of Reply to this notion Also the Scripture tells us Heb. 6. of the Doctrine of BAPTISMS And whereas it is objected That the Scripture tells us of one Lord and one Baptism I answer First this is not exclusive for there are Lords many yet he saith There is but one Lord Jesus So in like manner we reade of divers baptisms as of water and afflictions and the holy Ghost yet there is but one properly so call'd to wit That of water and the other are metaphorical baptisms Fifthly That the Lord Christ did administer bread and wine in token of his blood-shedding and bodybreaking which they deny This I prove from Mai. 26.27 28. where Christ did use both bread and wine upon that occasion and that the Apostles did so appears from 1 Cor. 11.23 where he saith That that which he received of the Lord he did deliver unto them how that Christ when he was betrayed took bread and ver 25. In like manner saith the Apostle he took the Cup when he had supped c. All which shew That bread and wine was instituted by Christ and practised by the Primitive Christians in remembrance of the dyings of the Lord Jesus Sixthly That civil honour and respect is due to some persons more then other which they deny First from the childe to the father as Exod. 20.12 Eph. 6.2 Secondly from the wise to the husband Eph. 5.33 and 1 Pet. 3.6 Sarah obeyed Abraham and called him LORD Thirdly this is due from servants to their Masters 1 Tim. 6.1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their Masters worthy of All honour c. Fourthly it is due from young solks to the aged Levit. 19.32 Thou shalt rise up before the boary head and honour the face of the old man and fear thy God or as Beza hath it Thou shalt honour the PERSON of the old man Fifthly this respect is due to persons in Authority as not onely the Apostle exhorts I Pat. 2.17 but as Paul himself practiseth as I have said when he calls Festw Most Noble and our Lord Christ notes the unjust Judge for one that did not reverence man Luke 18.2 and yet the Quakers make it a note of their infallible Ministery that they do not reverence men when Christ makes it a character of a wicked man This was urged by James Nayler at the Bull and Mouth near Aldersgate viz. That their not respecting persons was a sign they were immediately sent of God as I have already minded Again was not Jacob a faithful man and doth not the Scripture say that he called Esau LORD Gen. 32.18 Gen. 33.13

lay out hundreds of pounds to print so many Books when the world if your Doctrine be true might have known as much without them 9. Whether this is not as great superfluity and prodigality as wearing any thing that is not needful viz. your paying great Rents for places to meet and preach in when you say you know so much by the Light within you as you need no Teacher as appears by a Book of James Nayler's call'd A Discovery of the first Wisdome pag. 8. where he makes it the character of the first man or carnal man to know God by relation from others either by word or writing And to this purpose they apply 1 John 2.27 and Heb. 8.11 and in thee same page he makes it a note of a Spiritual man that he knows God from his dwelling-place and not by relation from others c. 10. Whether there is not the like vanity in your spending your precious Times and Moneys to go about the countreys if the Light which is within the countreys could have shewed them the same things without you 11. Whether you would not count it as vain a thing as wearing any thing that is needless is counted by you if any of you should be at great cost to carry a Bushel of coals to Newcastle where there is coals enow already 12. Whether the Moneys that is thus needlesly laid out would not be better bestowed where is more need viz. upon the hungry and the naked The fifth Error I shall name is 5 Error That there was one Jo Lawson accused for saying The day of Judgement was past which he in stead of disowning of the charge goes about to prove it from Matth. 12.20 and saith not one word touching the untruth of it See a Book of theirs called Sauls Errand to Damascus pag. 35. where you have that very Errour objected against them with their answer to it I should not have charged this Errour upon them all it being but the writing and the saying of one man did not all of them received and own it as appears by the printing of it in a book wherein many of them are concerned Now is not this a consequent of that devilish Doctrine taught by Hymeneus and Philetus which said that the Resurrection was already past and destroy the Faith of some 2 Tim. 2.17 18. For if the Judgement-day be past already Resurrection that goes before Judgement must be also past The sixth Errour I shall name is That George Fox 6 Error whom all of them own professeth himself to be the Eternal Judge of the World and being charged with it by the Petitioners of the County of Lancaster makes no denial of any part of the Charge but saith The Saints shall judge the World See pag. 6. of a book of theirs call'd Sauls Errand to Damascus The seventh Errour I shall mention is That George Fox 7 Error whom they all own said He was the Way the Truth and the Life and being charged with this by the Petitioners aforesaid he denies not a syllable of it though it is observable that many things that the said persons do object they in their Replies do deny that ever they said so yet to this he makes no denyal but saith The Old-Man cannot indure to hear the New-Man speak which is Christ. This you may finde to be his answer in pag. 7. of Sauls Errand to Damascus The eighth Errour I shall charge them with 8 Error is That the said Fox said That he which took a place of Scripture and made a Sermon of it or from it was a Conjurer and his preaching was Conjuration This he is charged with by the men aforesaid and in his printed answer denies not one syllable but saith He that raiseth the Spirit out of the Letter is a Conjurer * See p. 7. of the last mentioned Book First doth not the Scripture say Acts 8. that from that place of Scripture which the Eunuch was reading i. e viz. Philip preached unto him Jesus and did not the Eunuch reade the Letter and did not Philip preach the Christ was not that the Spirit as your selves notion it and yet you say They that raise the Spirit out of the Letter are Conjurers Oh horrible Profaneness The ninth Errour is 9 Error that being charged with saying The Scriptures are carnall In the book and page last mentioned he answers The Letter of the Scripture is carnall How now George what is the Letter of the Scripture carnal and do not you tell the people that you walk according to them But why should you walk after a carnal Rule since you profess to be such a Spiritual man But by this the world may see if their Candle be not put out that this cunning Fox can run with the Hare and hold with the Hound In the ninth page of the last mentioned Book 10 Error one Leonard Hill is charged with saying Christ had no body but his Church which he denies not but saith There is one Body and one Spirit even as ye are called The eleventh Errour is 11 Error That John Lawson said pag. 35. of Sauls Errand to Damascus that he had been in Hell but now was in Heaven Of this he is charged and denies it not but cites that place out of the second of Jonah where Jonah saith Out of the belly of Hell he cryed to the Lord Doth this prove Lauson was ever in this Hell or in any other but he may come there before he thinks of it if he repent not and his Heaven he is in will not shelter him The twelfth Errour is 12 Error That they say they are perfect and sin not See a Book of theirs in answer to Hen Haggar and Tho Pollard pag. 9. where they charge the men aforesaid for lying because they said The Quakers boast of perfection and yet in the same page they say They own perfection but do not boast of it Oh strange What that men should be telling and preaching of their perfection and in print proclaim they own it and yet call men Lyers for saying that they loast of it I pray resolve me this Question If any man should by word or writing or both publish his estate to the world that he is thus and thus rich would not your selves call him a proud boaster especially if he shall boast of that he never had and that you do so I shall make it manifest in due place The thirteenth Errour is that James Nayler said 13 Error that None can come to God nor Christ but they that come to perfection See Naylers Book call'd Love to the Lost pag. 23. If this be true Paul was not come to God nor Christ for he saith Phil. 3.12 Not as though I had already attained or were already PERFECT And in the seventh of the Romans the same Apostle saith once and again That sin did dwell in him and doth not Christ call sinners to come unto him