answere suppose you they coulde make I thynke none other but as I haue made you before That is we knowe it by oure elders or holye prophetes and fathers before vs. Nowe I wyll aske you a questian whiche shall not be impossible nor verie vnlyke If it pleased God to moue the herte of a Iewe whiche wer neither christian nor turke to seke in the worlde here the moste perfecte religion He goeth to the Turkes and cometh to the christians Wherwyth woulde you perswad hym to thys perfect religion Woulde you preache to hym constitutions coūselles and customes of the elders He mought then as well beleue the turkes as you For they haue many thynges in their lawe that seme to be verie godlye And they re authoritie wythout authoritie of scripture is euen as good as yours But I knowe you wyl saye what so euer you thinke that you woulde preache the Gospell vnto hym Then must you nedes graunte that the scripture is of greater efficacie and strength them oure fathers elleders and counsayles If you wyll yet wyth your questians affirme that the fathers whyche descended frome tyme to tyme frome the Apostles hither to haue greater authoritye then the scripture I wyl axe you an other questian The Apostles of Christ forsoke the ceremonies customes and constitutions of theyr elders forefathers and of as holye mother holye churche in the iudgemente of the worlde at that tyme as yours is w t the world at thys houre and of as longe continuaunce of tyme. Yet folowed they Christes doctrine who was named of those holye fathers a sediciouse felowe a newe tidinges bringer and an heretike Answere me nowe what touchstone had they to trye Christes doctrine wyth that they so ernestlye folowed hym and refused theyr forefathers olde holye doctours proceadynge from Moyses to Christ Ther were at that tyme auncient fathers which had great learneing both byshopes and priestes The tradions ordinaunces and ceremonies whiche they vsed receyued they of theyr elders lyke as you woulde haue vs to receiue the constitucions of oure elders Tell me nowe how can you excuse the Apostles They were but pore fisher men and net makers they wer not brought vp in the scholes they hadde not the leisure toturne and tosse those greate volumes to be made doctours of deuinitie nor law And yet within a whyle they toke vpon them to teach the great doctours and what mought those holye fathers haue sayed to these fishers Take hede to your fysheynge What haue you to do wyth the scripture It is not mete for euerie coblarde to be talkeynge of scripture Howe were these men so lyghtlye perswaded What touchestone I saye had they But seynge you woulde so fayne haue the name of the holye fathers and holye churche I axe you thys questian Those Apostles and Disciples of Christe whyche were in hys tyme wyth hym presente whyche preached and wrote the scripture were holy fathers and of the perfecte true churche If the fathers syeth theyr tyme haue dissented frome them in doctryne maners custome lawes or in anye thynge partayneynge to Christes relygion whyche fathers woulde you folowe If you denye that the fathers haue dessented as is a fore sayed I refer the proue of it tyll a tyme of more leasure Partely because I thynke you wyll not denye it but chiefelye because my letter woulde be to longe Wherfore I wyl come to your thyrde question whyche in dede includeth the matter of all the reste whiche is thys If ther aryse anye contention in vnderstandeynge the Scriptures wherein boeth the parties bringe scripture for them whoe shall nowe discusse the matter Where is nowe the toucheston The scriptures can not For boeth bring scripture And the scripture you meane causeth y e cōtrouersye But I aske you whether the scriptures be deuided or no If they be deuided then accordinge to Christes worde they muste be confounded But that is an incōuenience and I knowe well you wyll not graunt that If the scriptures be not deuided but agre in one as they do in deede for one place cannot be repugnaunte to an other thoughe it so seme then haue not boeth parties scripture for them but y e one partie must nedes falsely alledge scripture But you will aske me who shal geue sentence or by whom the cōtrouersye shal be appeased and where is Luthers touchstone In dede at your sermō no man made answer Wherefore you made answere and sayde the holye gooste must be tuchstone As who should saye Luthers answere were not the very same When he sayeth gods worde must be the touchston as you reporte of hym And I praye you maister Chrispyn what difference is betwene gods worde and godes spirite Is not goddes worde the breath of gods mouthe And call you not that the holye goste Howe be it it is easilye perceyued what ye meane Ye put in the holye gost for a cloke to deceiue vs wyth albeit ye meane nothing lesse then the holye gooste If you aske me how I proue it I answer thus I proue it Wythout fayeth it is not possible to please God but fayeth cometh by the word of god Ergo wythout the worde of God nothyng can please God But you exclude the word of God from the spirite of God and in stead of that ioyne vnto it fathers counsayles and oure mother holy churche for you saye the worde of God can not be touchston ▪ but onelie beare wytnesse but the holye gooste is the touch stone whoe was and is in the holye fathers that haue alwayes gathered counsayles by whyche all thynges muste be iudged and dermined To proue thys ye alledge these wordes Where so euer two or three be gathered together c. These holye fathers you affirme to be the byshopes and prelates But thus to include the holye gooste into byshopes you exclude y e word of god If this be not to be disceiued sure I am deceyued But it were necessarie for you to proue the chur that you speake of to be the true-holye and catholyke churche before you perswade men so ernestye to belyeue and stycke vnto it But I saye the churche that taketh awaye the authoritye of goddes worde or diminisheth it by anye meanes is not of Christe But you mayster Chrispyne graunte youre selfe to be of thys churche Ergo etc. And in myne opinion you do naught to say that all holy fathers frō Christ to thys time wer of the same opinion that you be of concernynge goddes worde For I dare saye Augustine whome you admytte to be of the verye holye church wyll not hold wyth you in thys matter But if he woulde the authoritye of Christe is greater Whoe is it that wyll not suspecte your churche seynge you set it so high in Lucifers place aboue Christe and separate the hollye goste from Christe where as Christe sayeth I am that I say vnto you What is y t he spake vnto vs Is it not his word He saith moreouer the wordes y t I speake are spirite lyfe I
praye you master Chrispine what spirite ment Christe here What lyfe speaketh he of Can ther any man bring out of hys breast either by writting preachinge or otherwise teacheinge or speakeinge the sentence of the holie spirite wythout goddes worde Is not the sentence or worde of the holye gooste the worde of God Is it not to be vnsterstand of the lyueynge fayth that the holy goste worketh in the soule of man in beleuing the word Is not the scriptur called the two edged sworde Is it not also called the sworde of the spirite Maye ye separate the spirite from the wordes seynge he calleth them spirit and lyfe I thynke not ▪ No more than heate can be separated from fire Why then in the name of the holye gooste do you vndermine Christe The churche you saye must be iudge and the scripture muste be wytnesse onlye So must Christe be inferioure to mē For I am sure you wyll not denye but these holye fathers which you cal the church were be men And those you saye must be the iudges And Christe to be the worde and promise of the father he hymselfe wytnesseth sayeinge I am that I saye vnto you and hym you make but a witnesse or iudge Therefore I saye your churche is to be suspected As toucheynge the true spose and catholyke churche of Christe which are verye membres of hys bodye and he the head this churche hath so muche authoritie as the scripture geueth them and take vpon them no more for the scripture and they are one and for the scripture they ieoparde theyr liues as many haue done whome you and your forfathers bishopes and prelates haue alwayes put to dath Who persecuted y e prophets and put them to death Who procured Christe to the crosse Whoe the Apostles wyth manye othere holy men Were they not byshops and prelates of the churche Howe manye godlye preachers wyth other good soules hath the byshop of Rome put to death by the helpe of prelates in diuers contries syth he came to the supremitye and beareynge a rule ouer kynges and emperours Hath there not ben some put to death here in Englād wythin these .xx. yeres for speakeynge agaynste the Pops pardons and pylgrymages wyth suche lyke abuses Was not the Pope chiefe of these holye fathers whom you cal holye churche and woulde haue them iudges But I knowe what you meane You would perswad the multitude that you and youre churche be the verye true churche and haue the holye gooste and that what so euer you do is well But whereby do ye perswad thē By olde custome for you haue nothynge else and longe continuaunce of tyme the whyche if you coulde beate in to the heades of the communaltye your reformacion of thynges that are amysse shoulde be as you luste But maister Chrispyne if you were not in darckenesse you coulde not refuse the light Christ sayth if you cōtinue in my worde then are you mi verye Disciples and ye may know the trueth and the trueth shall make you fre But he that refuseth me and receyueth not my wordes hath one alredye that iudgeth hym the worde that I haue spoken shall iudge hym in the laste daye Beholde Christe sayeth hys worde shal be iudge All that be of Christ heare Christes wordes Mayster Chrispyne my lettere is longer then I thoughe it should haue ben howe it shal lyke you I can not tell but hertily desire you if you loue the truth and desire the glorye of God answere wyth the trueth and defende the trueth and do not wyllfully resist the truth But defend it not with the authoritye of men but wyth the power of God and that wyth charitie For if I haue by any meanes spoken any thynge in this letter more rigorously then charitye requireth whereby you myght be offended at me iustlye I am redie in such case wyth all myne herte to be reformed Wherfore I eftsones desire you to answere me as it becometh a true preacher for quietynge of my conscience And so doynge I comitte you to Christ and hys worde Amen ¶ Yours lokinge for an answer Philip Nicolles Written xxiii of Aprile MDxlvii HEre haste thou my letter gentle reader euen worde for worde as it was deliuered to mayster Chrispyne And trueth it is I wrote it inmediately after my retoune frome hys sermon euen whyle it was hotte For it greued me that it had not been lawful for me to haue answered him euen incontinente before all the audience For he perswaded them al for the mooste parte that nothynge coulde be sayde to the contrarie Which greued me to heare Not wythstandynge when I hadde written my letter I dyd not sēde it furth w t but paused a whyle partelye seeinge ther was suche a greate audience to se whether any man of woship or some better learned then I woulde take the mattier in hande But after I had rested vpō thys a moneth or .vi. weakes and perceiued that no man busied hym selfe in it al though ther were present men of worship pretēding to haue knowledg I sent furth my letter the laste daie of Apriel or nere there aboute And because the mesenger dyd not in all thynges fulfyl my request I wrote agayne to maister Chrispyne desireinge hym to sende me an answere by the sayede bearer of my letter to whō he gaue thys answer That he would not writ but cōmune wyth me him selfe I lefte him not thus but wtin a while after he cam to a benefice y t he hath called Herbertō besyd Totnes and preached there y e sūday after corpus Christi day as they cal it y e mūdaie in the morning I wente to him and communed w t hym and spent wel most y e whole day In which cōmunicaciō we swarued not frō these .iii. questiās I I resorted vnto him againe not long after y e and had much talke w t him al which cōmunicaciō I haue not nor wyll babble out al thought it be reported y t I came to him for non other purpose but to haue matter to talk of and to accuse him But yet they be to blame so to reporte of me For if Maister Chrispine or other y t be more busie peraduēture in talking then he him selfe can say ▪ y t I haue accused him of any such priuat cōmunicatiō let thē lay it to my charge else let thē for shame hold theyr peace and say y e thing they knowe As for the wordes that he or any other shal speake in a pulpyt or any suche like audiēce I am sure they wil be cōtēted to heare of thē againe If not let thē hēce forth desire their audience to kepe coūsel or else truly if I be presente heare any thing spoken againste god or my prince especially agaynste the doctrine of Christe I muste needes disclose it If they wyll blame me for this I am cōtented to beare it howe be it vn worthye in my owne conceyte let other iudge But if he were
doctours saye they and beleue the catholyke churche whiche hath continued frome Christes tyme hitherto we can shewe say they bi auncient writers from tyme to tyme sence Christs ascention But what can these men shewe Be not these writters whiche I haue rehersed of the chieffest of theÌ„ And al thes agre that their wrytinges must be tried by the scripture and if that allowe theÌ„ not they would not in any wise that we should beleue them This is a wonderfull thynge y t they would haue vs geue such credite to the doctours whiche thynge the docters them selues forbyd But they haue alwayes this sayeinge of Augustine in their mouthes I would not beleue the gospel except the authoritie of the câ—urch did moue me Nowe as sone as they haue caught thys in theyr sermons thei triumph Lo say they what authorite did this gâ—eat doctour attribute to y e church in so much that y e gospel is and must be iudged by y e church For wtout the church he would not beleue christes gospel manye wordes haue they which I caÌ„ not remembre But me think these meÌ„ mought be answered out of Augustines owne wordes before rehersed For he wil geue no such credit to any mans writtinges what so euer he be as he doth to the scripture neither would he y t any maÌ„ woulde he that any man should so esteme his writtynges For al hys wryttynges dooe not please hym Therefore if they wil haue me beleue Augustines wordes they muste proue them true bye the scripture or else by some other probable and sure reasone that dissenteth not frome the truethe else maye not I beleue Austens wordes For thys he counselleth hym selfe But admytte Austens wordes to be true wythout anye contradicion What moughte then be sayed to it These be Augustines wordes I shoulde not beleue the Gospell onlesse the authoritye of the churche moued me Nowe I aske you what the authority of the churche is What cal you y e authorite of y e church Is it long continuance of time TheÌ„ was christes doctrine doubtful For the scribes and phariseis had that on theyr syde Or is it the greater number With lyke reasone we maye refuse Christes Gospell For many be called sayeth he and fewe elected Or else was it the consent of learned wise men All thys had the great byshopes and high pristes in christes time For they were great learned and wyse men But saynt Paule axeth wher be the wyse Wher are the scribes where are the disputers of the worlde Hath not god made the wysdome of the worlde foleishenesse Therfore let them declare vnto me the verie true authoritye of the churche And I make heare distinctioÌ„ of churches For Christe and the Apostles haue prophicied that theyr shal come false prophetes in Christes name and shal rise euen froÌ„ amonge our selues shall speake peruerse doctryne These men come in Christes name and saye they be christes chruch But I am assured they be not Christes true spouse For Lira writinge vpon Mathe sayth The church standeth not in men by the reason of spirituall powre or secular dignitie For many princes and many popes and other inferiour persones haue swarued frome the fayth Wherfore the church doth stande in those persones in whom is y e true knowledge and coÌ„fession of fayth and veritie Therefore it must nedes by Lira his wordes consiste in the scriptures For the gyfte of fayeth and vnderstandeynge the veritye is the worckeynge of the holye spirite that confortour which the Lorde promised to those that beleue hys worde But because they alledge me Austens wordes I wyl answere theÌ„ with Austen him selfe wrytinge vpon the .lvii. Psal Wee speake true thynges sayth he which haue heard true thinges that the lorde sayth not that maÌ„ sayth It may be that man may lie it can not be that god should lye By the worde of trueth do I knowe Christe the same verie trueth By the worde of trueth do I knowe the church to be partaker of the trueth Nowe lette them scan these wordes and tell me where the true touchestonne is Then alledge they these wordes of Christe I haue yet muche to saye vnto you but you can not nowe beare it a waye Nowe be it when the spirite of the trueth commeth he shall leade you into all trueth etc. And agayne Manye other tokens dyd Iesus before hys his disciples Which are not writen in this boke Here staye they and go no farder for it foloweth But these are written that you shoulde beleue etc. But seynge we haue begone wyth Saynte Augustine we wyll ende wyth him He wryteth vpon this same place of Iohn and sayeth They were chosen and pycked out as many as were thought necessarie and sufficient for the saluacion of the faythfull Cirillus also affirmeth the same and sayeth more ouer that althynges that the wrytters thought sufficient boeth for the fayeth and beleue and also for y e coÌ„uersacioÌ„ of men that wee myghte shyne wyth a ryghte and perfecte fayeth and wyth true workes and vertues and so come to the Kyngdome of heauen thorowe oure Lorde Christe be wryten sayeth he and therefore it is a newelye inuented in y e diuilles shop to saye that all the articles of oure christian fayeth can not be proued by scripture and mens tradicions bysyde the scripture be goode workes and please God These be Cyrillus workes And therefore sayeth Saynte Ambros in hys fourth boke of virgines All newe thynges that Christe hath not tought we lawfully condemne For vnto faythful men sayeth he Christe is the waye If Christe therefore haue not taught that we teache sayeth he we iudge it to be detestable Nowe let these holye fathers turne and tosse these olde holye doctours and let them fynde me out a touchston some other wher For these doctours say playnely the worde of God the holy scripture the word of truth is y e rule wherby Christes true church is ordered gouerned enstructed For whosoeuer sercheth findeth The holy gost faileth not such as seke him ther but to seke him in anye other place is no promise made As for theyr general counsayles that they sticke so muche vnto is but a weake foundacion For saynt Austine writtynge agaynst the donatistes sayeth Who is it that knoweth not the holy canonical scriptures boeth of the olde and newe testamente to be conteined within certayne limettes and bouÌ„des And that they be so put before al the wrytinges of bishopes y t shal come afterward that it can not be doubted at all neyther can we be deceyued of the whether it be true or whether it be ryght and good or not what soeuer is knowen to be writen in them But al other wrytynges of byshopes or else which either haue writteÌ„ or shal write after the confirmacion of the cananicall wrytynges maye be reprehended both by the wordes or wyse senteÌ„ce of some more knoweynge man in that matter as well as by the sage authorite