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A10240 A rejoynder unto William Malone's reply to the first article Wherein the founders of unwritten traditions are confounded, out of the sure foundation of Scripture, and the true tradition of the Church. By Roger Puttocke, minister of Gods word at Novan. Puttock, Roger. 1632 (1632) STC 20520; ESTC S100925 167,226 214

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excludeth the Baptisme of those Heretickes which did not baptize in the name of the Trinity but of the rest thus he disputeth The Baptisme of CHRIST is not to bee reiterated but the Baptisme of Heretickes is the Baptisme of CHRIST The Assumption hee prooveth by this medium By the testimonies of Scripture it is plainly prooved that they have the same Baptisme with the Saints Thus S. Augustine determineth this point by the Scriptures Such is the Fast of Lent Reply 9. Fasting is a Christian duety needfull for our salvation such is not the Fast of Lent The i On Mat. 1. Rhemists doe account it to be a written doctrine grounded upon Scriture Hosius the Cardinall reckoneth it among k Hosius in confess Petrocovien c. 4. de caeremonijs the Traditions of the Church The Iesuite is of opinion that it is a Tradition of the Apostles and for this he citeth S. Hierome saying * Hieron epist ad Marcel Wee faste one Lent by Apostolicall Tradition This he calleth Apostolicall not because it came from the Apostles but because it had gained some space of time for the observing of it in the Church for S. Augustine ascribeth the invention of it l Aug. epist 119. unto the Church And though it were an unwritten Tradition comming from the Apostles yet S. Hierome did not thinke it to be a doctrinall Tradition for m Doctrin● Ecclesiae quae est domus Dei in librorum repe ritur plenitudine divinorum Hierom. in Epist 155. ad Paulam Vrbicam The doctrine of the Church which is the house of God is found in the fullnesse of the divine bookes saith S. Hierome It must needs be then a rituall Tradition and such are impertinent to this Question Such also is the commemoration and prayer for the dead Reply pag. 126. in the sacrifice of the Masse witnesse S. Chrysostome * Chrysost hom 3. in Phi It was not in vaine ordained by the Apostles that in the celebration of the venerable mysteries a remembrance should bee made of the deceased They knew well that great comfort and profit did from hence arise unto the dead 10. The private conceit of every Doctor is not the publicke tenent of the Church especially in this point of prayer for the dead in which as most of the Fathers differed among themselves so S. Chrysostome dissented from the most of them It was his opinion That wicked livers that such as were not and would not bee baptized might bee prayed for that such as were in hell might receive some benefite by the prayers of the living Concerning such writing upon the same Chapter he saith n 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c Chrysost in Philip Hom. 3. Let us weepe for such let us succour them according to our power let us finde out some helpe for them little indeede but yet such as may releive them How and after what manner By praying for them Ch●ysostome deserveth to be censured for this for Gregory in his Morals saith o Greg. Moral in Iob l. 34. c. 16 We may aswell pray for the Devill and his Angells as for such and it is the generall tenent of the Romane Doctours that onely those are holpen by the prayers of the living who dye in the state of grace and being dead goe into Purgatory and not unto Hell For thy full satisfaction in this point reade the Article of prayer for the dead which is most learnedly handled by the most reverend Primate unto which I will adde this wee distinguish the point it selfe of praying for the dead from the practise of praying for them at any set time and namely at the time of celebrating the divine Mysteries this is but a custome or p Epiphan in fine Panarij ordinance of the Church by the judgment of Epiphanius of this S. Chrysostome speaketh and such things are as impertinently objected by the Iesuite as this is falsely affirmed by S. Chrysostome Such also is the custome of baptizing Infants before they doe actually beleeve for S. Augustine sayth Reply pag. 126 * Aug. de Genes ad lit l. 10. c. 23. The custome of the Church in baptizing of Infants were not at all to bee beleeved unlesse it were an Apostolicall Tradition And Origen saith * Orig. in Rom. c. 6. The Church received from the Apostles this Tradition to conferre baptisme even unto children 11. None but an Anabaptist would hold this opinion that the baptisme of Children is not warranted by Scripture If he had learned the Catechisme of Trent or if he had read Bellarmines first Booke and eight Chapter de Baptismo hee would not have inserted this into his catalogue of unwritten Traditions That which he produceth out of S. Augustine overthroweth all that which he with so much toile in this and in the former Section hath laboured for to build for if This or that is not to be beleeved unlesse it be an Apostolicall Tradition how then can Ecclesiasticall Traditions be beleeved or how can they be of the same credit and authority with the written word We distinguish betweene the doctrine and the practise in the Sacrament of Baptisme and likewise betweene doctrines expressely written in the Scriptures and by sound inference deduced from them S. Augustine proveth the doctrine by diverse texts of holy Scripture by this q August de peceat merit l. 1. c. 27. He that hath the Sonne hath life By that r Idem de verbis Apostol Serm. 8. He shall save his people from their sinnes And by the ſ Idem de Bapt. cont Donat. l. 4. c. 24. Circumcision of Infants As for the custome or practise whereof S. Augustine speaketh we read not of any Children baptised neither doe we read that any Apostles that any old men or widdowes or virgins were baptised but yet the generall precept and practise of baptising the Species under which these Individualls are contained is a sufficient warrant for their baptisme And this custome is to be beleeved * Nec omnino ●redenda est nisi Apostolica osse Traditio esses for esse is crept into the text in S. Augustin to be an Apostolicall Tradition that is a practise according to the written word which is the Tradition of the Apostles In the same sense Origen calleth it a Tradition received from the Apostles He proveth it by this text t Origen Hom. 14. in Luc. Vnlesse a man be borne againe of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdome of God Stupleton teacheth the same that we teach concerning this and sundry other points of faith that u Principia in Scriptur● aperte posita quae plurimorum alio●um articulorum ●unt ●ontes seminaria ut de duabns ●atu●s una persona in Christo de necessitate baptizandi parvul●● c. de a●is multis dogmatihus non aperte Scriptis ●de tamen firmiter deductis Stapleton Relect Princip fidei Cont●