to celebrate the Lordes Supper And if it did the dignitie of the Sacramentes do not depende vpon the man be he minister or not minister be he good or euill Lette euery one take heede that they doe not vsurpe that authoritie wherevnto they be not called T. C. P ag 113. Sect. 1. 2. 3. He hath certayne other (*) Vntruth for I vse no reasons to that end to proue that women may baptize whereof the first is in the. 93. page and that is that Sephora Moses wife circumcised hir child wherevnto I haue answered partly before that particular examples especially contrary to generall rules are not to be followed and will further answer if I first admonish the Reader wherevpon this baptisme of midwiues and in priuate houses rose that when we know of how rotten a stocke it came the frute it selfe may be more lothsome vnto vs. It first therefore rose vpō a false interpretation of the place of S. Iohn V nlesse a man be borne againe of vvater and of the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdome of heauen 3. Iohn Where certayne do interprete the word water for the materiall and elementall water wherewith men are washed when as our sauioure Christ taketh water there by a translation or borrowed speach for the spirit of God the effect whereof it shadoweth out For euen as in another place by the fire and spirit he meaneth nothing but the spirit of God which purgeth and purifyeth as the 3. Math. fire doth so in this place by the water and the spirit he meaneth nothing else but the spirit of God which clenseth the filth of sinne and cooleth the broyling heate of an vnquiet conscience as water washeth the thing which is foule and quencheth the heate of the fire Secondarily this erroure came by a false and vnnecessary conclusion drawen of that place For although the scripture should say that none can be saued but those which haue the spirit of God and are baptised with materiall and elementall water yet ought it to be vnderstanded of those whiche can conueniently and orderly be brought to baptisme as the Scripture saying that who so doth not beleeue the gospell is Iohn 3. already condemned meaneth this sentence of those which can heare the gospell and haue discretion to vnderstand it when they heare it and cannot here shut vnder this condemnation eyther those that be borne deafe and so remayne or little infants or naturall fooles that haue no witte to conceiue what is preached And herevpon S. Augustine concludeth that all not baptized are condemned which is as absurdly 106. Epist. ad Bonifac. in lib. de meritis remissi pec cat 1. ca. 4 concluded of him as that of our sauioure Christes words excepte one eate the flesh of the sonne of man he hath not life he concludeth that whatsoeuer he be whiche receyueth not the Sacrament of the Supper is damned Upon this false conclusion of S. Augustine hath risen this prophanation of the sacramente of baptisme in being ministred in priuate houses and by women or lay men as also vpon his other absurd conclusion sprong a horrible abuse of the Lords supper whilest they did thrust the bread and wine into yong infantes mouthes for that menne were perswaded that otherwise if their children should die before they were baptised or had receyued the supper that they were damned for euer And what better token can there be that this was the cause of this blind baptisme than that the Papistes from whome this baptisme by women is translated were of the same iudgement and for that cause brought in their baptisme by women Herevnto may be added another cause which is that as when the Churche began not only to decline but to fall away from the sinceritie of religion it borrowed a number of other prophanations of the heathen so also it borrowed this For as the heathen had women priests so it would haue also hir women priests and Li. 3. ca. 9. that this was another occasion of bringing in the baptisme by women it appeareth by your Clement if he can speake any truth Io. Whitgifte It is vntrue that I vse any reasons at all to proue that women may baptise onely I bring this and such like examples to improue this generall assertion of the Admonition that then sacraments were ministrred by ministers only and not by midwiues or deacons For Deacōs then did baptise and Moses wife long before that time did circumcise I know that particular examples make no general rules but you are not ignorant that Particular examples may sometimes be followed particular examples may in the like cases and circumstances be followed when ther is no rule to the contrary The place in the. 3. of Iohn by you alleadged hath diuers interpretations and the most part of the auncient writers do take water in that place for materiall and elementall water as Augustine Chrisostome Ambrose Cyrill and sundry others euen as Chr. in 3. Io. 3. lib. de spirit sanct lib. 2. de Abrabam patriar Cyri. in 3. Io. many of the auncient fathers as I haue red vpon that text But bycause I do mislike as much as you the opinion of those that thinke infants to be condemned which are not baptized therefore I will not contend with you eyther in the interpretation of that place or in anye other thing that you haue spoken touching this erroure onely this I saye that you must take héede least in auoiding an errour you fall into an heresie and giue place to Anabaptistes in not baptising infants And I knowe not what you can saye agaynste priuate baptisme in that case of necessitie whyche they doe not in lyke manner alleadge agaynste the baptising of yong Infantes Master Caluine in his Introduction Aduersus Anabap. though he allowe not this errour which condemneth chyldren not baptized yet doth he approue and allowe the necessitie of baptizing infantes His woordes be these But some man will say that the grace of God towardes vs is not diminished Caluine uers 〈◊〉 if infantes be not admitted to Baptisme so that it be not denied that God is as mercifull vnto them as vnto the children of the Iewes but I will shewe that it is much diminished for we muste esteeme the grace of God especially by the declaration thereof which he maketh both by his worde and Sacramentes Seyng therefore Baptisme is nowe ordeyned that the promise of saluation may be sealed in our bodies as it was in tymes past in the people of the Iewes Christians should be depriued of a singular consolation if theyr children shoulde be secluded from this confirmation which all the faythfull haue at all tymes enioyed that they should haue the visible signe whereby the Lorde doth shewe and witnesse that he receyueth their children into the Communion and fellowship of the Churche If the Authours of the Admonition say truly that Victor who liued Anno. 198. did firste appoynt that women might Baptise
lawfull to reiterate baptisme and furious men of our time vsing thys testimonie haue gone about to bring in Anabaptisme Some men by the name of baptisme vnderstand a new institution vnto whome I do not assent bycause their exposition as it is enforced sauoureth of a shift Others denie that Baptisme was reiterated bycause they had Caluin in 19. Acto bin baptised of some folish imitator of Iohn But bycause their gheasse hath no coloure of truth nay rather the words of Paule do testify that they wer the very true disciples of Iohn and Luke very honorably calleth them the disciples of Christ I do not subscribe vnto thys sentence and yet I denie the baptisme of water to haue bin reiterated bycause the wordes of Luke do sound nothing else but that they were baptised with the spirit First it is no new The name of baptisme transferred to the gifts of the spirit thing to transferre the name of baptisme to the gifts of the spirite as we haue seene in the first and. 11. Chap. where Luke sayd that Christ when he promised to the Apostles the visible sending of the holy Ghost called it baptisme and agayne when the holy Ghost descended vpon Cornelius that Peter remembred the wordes of the Lord you shall be baptised with the holy Ghost Then we see that it is here namely intreated of the visible gifts and that they are conferred and giuen with baptisme But wheras it followeth immediatly that when he had layd his hands vpon them the holy Ghost came I interprete that to be put in the way of exposition for it is the vsuall and familiar manner of speaking in the scripture to propound a matter briefly and after to explicate it more plainly That therfore which for breuitie was somewhat obscure Luke doth better expresse and more largely expound saying that the holy Ghost was giuen them by the imposition of hands If any man obiecte that the name of baptisme when it is vsed for the gifts of the holy Ghost is not put simply but with addition I answer that the meaning of Luke is euidēt enough by the text And further that Luke alludeth to baptisme wherof he had before made mentiō And surely if you should take it for the externall signe it will be absurd that it was giuen vnto them without any better instruction But if metaphorically of the institution the phrase would yet be more hard and the story would not agree that after they were taught the holy Ghost descended vpon them But be it as other some learned men also interprete thys place that in the former parte of the Chapter the baptisme of Iohn is taken for the doctrine of Iohn and in this place for the sacrament of baptisme and that Paule preached before he did administer the same yet doth it not follow that of necessitie there must be preaching before the administration of baptisme The Anabaptists abused this place to the same effect but M. Bullinger doth answer them in this manner VVhereas the Catabaptists ullin in 19. Acto obiect here Therefore doctrine goeth before baptisme no man denyeth it but yet in those that be of yeares of discretion and with whome the name of Christ hath not bin published But agayn whereas the name of Christ hath bin heard of no man can denie but that there the parents being carefull for the saluation of their children do offer them vnto holy baptisme bycause they heare that God is also the God of infants but baptisme 〈◊〉 selfe to be nothing else but the signe of the people of God The third Diuision Ansvver to the Admonition Pag. 90. Sect ▪ And verses 13. 14. 15. it is manifest that he did baptise Christ without preaching This is buta slender proofe you vse thereby to condemne the sinceritie of our sarramentes and administring of them in this Church T. C. Pag. 125. Lin. 13. And whereas you say that it is manifest that our sauiour Christ was baptised without preaching I would know of you what one worde doth declare that when as the contrary rather doth appeare in S. Luke which seemeth to note playnely that our Sauiour Christe was baptised when Luke 3. the people were baptised But the people as I haue shewed were baptised immediatlye after they heard Iohn preache therefore it is lyke that our sauiour Christ was baptised after y t he had heard Iohn preach And it is very probable that our sauiour Christ which did honor the ministery of God by the hand of men so far as he would vouchsafe to be baptised of Iohn would not neglect or passe by his ministery of the word being more precious than that of the Sacramente as it appeareth by Iohn that our Sauiour Christe was present at his sermons for so much as S. Iohn doth as hee was preaching to the people point hym out with the fynger tolde them that he was in the middest Iohn 1. of them which was greater than he Io. Whitgifte First S. Mathewe maketh no mention of it neither can it be gathered by any circūstance of the place Secondly Luke doth not say that Iohn preached immediatly before he baptised But the contrary rather appeareth if S. Luke wryte the story orderly Thirdly to what purpose should he preache to Christe before he baptised him Lastly in the first of Iohn there is not one sentence to proue that Christe was present at any of Iohns sermones for those wordes But there standeth one among you Iohn 1. whome you know not c. do not signifie that he was in that company at that present Sed quod inter eos versabatur that he was conuersant amongst them But if he had bin present doth it therefore followe that the sacramentes may not be ministred without preaching do you make preaching immediatly before the administration of the sacramentes De substantia Sacramentorum of the substance of the Sacramentes The. 4. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 90. Sect. 2. 3. There is no man I thinke which doth not allowe of preaching before Preaching be fore the sacramentes not disalowed the administration of the Sacraments but it is not therewith ioyned tanquam de necessitate sacramenti as of the necessitie of the Sacramente neither is there any thing here alledged for preaching before the administration of the lords supper Indeede we reade not that Christ did preach immediatly before the distribution of the Sacrament of his body bloud to his disciples only he told them that some of them should betraye him that he had greatly desired to eate y e passeouer with thē This I write to shewe your blynde and vnlearned collections not to disalowe preaching in the administration of the Sacramentes T. C. Pag. 125. Lin. 25. And there is no doubt but those wordes which our Sauiour Christe sayd before his supper although they are gathered by the Euangelistes into short sentences were notwithstanding long sermons touching the fruite of his death and vse and ende
in the Defense for Archbishops and the superiority of Bishops 470. c. ¶ Archdeacons 344. c. ¶ Archiflamines 320. c. 323 ¶ Argumentum à secundùm quid ad simpliciter 23 Argumentum ab authoritate negatiuè 24. 26. 77. 328. 543 Argument of Negatiues by comparison 26 27 Argumentum à petitione principij 26. 62. 95. 249. 302. 304. 314. 322. 440. 451. Argumentum à non causa pro causa 27. 293. 482. Argumentum ab aequivocatione 62 Argumentum à facto ad us 142. 161. 505. Argumentum ab authoritate affirmatiuè 78 Argumentum ex solis particularibus pag. 79 Argumentum ab ignorantia Elenchi 109. 181. 187. 206. 426. A deformed argument 316. c. Arguments borowed of the Papists 466. 696. 697. 698. c. Argumentum à toto ad partes affirmatiuè 265 ¶ Aristotle not rightly alleaged 243 ¶ Arrogancie cloked with zeale 42 Arrogancie disprayseth good things pag. 725 Arrogancie of the libellers 57 ¶ Assertion vnaduised 475 ¶ Athanasius Archbishop 471. 339 Athanasius Creede 496 Athanasius being a child baptized pag. 519. ¶ Atheists in the Church 178 ¶ Auncient Fathers contemned of the vnlearned 811 ¶ Augustine of thinges indifferent pag. 99. c Augustine deliuered from vntrue surmises 100 Augustine heareth ciuill causes 771. 772. Augustine retorted vpon the aduersarie 811 ¶ Aurelius Bishop of Carthage had the ouersight of many Churches pag. 471 ¶ Authoritie the best proofe in Diuine matters 200 B ¶ Babling in prayer what it is 805 ¶ Baptisme the sacrament of fayth pag. 608. 609 Matters touching baptisme 607. c Of the parties to be baptised 619. c Baptisme once ministred remaineth perpetuall 622 The essentiall poynte of Baptisme pag. 519. Baptisme called priuate in respect of the place 93. 504 Baptisme ministred but once a yere pag. 238 Baptisme true though not ordinarily ministred 517. 521 Differring of Baptisme not cōuenient 521 Baptisme by lay men 518. 519. 523. Baptisme by women not collected out of the booke 504. 793. Baptisme by women not defended pag. 509. 516. 29. Baptisme ministred in priuate places 511. c. 513. Necessitie in Baptisme 523. Baptisme ministred withoute preaching 563 The name of Baptisme transferred to the giftes of the spirit 564 ¶ Basilius a Metropolitane 341. 471 ¶ Battus a babling Poet. 805 ¶ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 804 ¶ Beggers and ignorant persons are thoughte onely to bee saued of some 10 ¶ To beleue and to be elected not al one 611 ¶ Benedictus 494. c. 496. 497 ¶ Beza calleth the names of Archbishops c. holy names 472 Beza his iudgemēt of baptising the children of excommunicate person c. 623. 624. ¶ Bishops moste mete to haue the examination of ministers 131 Bishope haue authoritie to admitte ministers 196. c Bishops appointe their successours pag. 205 Bishops authoritie 297. c 408. Bishops called heades of the Churches 301 One ministerie of Bishops but diuerse degrees 320 A Byshop aboue a priest in Cyprians time 358 One Byshoppe in one Cittie 366. 444. Difference betwixte Byshoppe and Priest 383 Byshoppes in the Apostles tymes pag. 384. 470 Ieromes Byshoppe aboue an Elder in rule 385 Byshops gouernours simply not of one action onely 3 Byshoppes authoritie consisteth in offences 75 Byshop high priest 411. 470. 471. VVhat kinde of authoritie Byshops exercise 420 Byshoppes succede Apostles in gouernment 32 Comparison betwixte our Byshope and the olde Bishops 472 〈◊〉 Byshops alone excommunicate 6 6 c. Byshops may haue assistance in excommunication 673 Authoritie ascribed to Bishops in x communication not infinite but limited 6 8 Byshops gaue sentence in ciuill causes 773 ¶ A Bloudy assertion 150 ¶ Booke of common prayer Looke Communion Booke Booke of ordering Ministers iustifyed concerning examination pag. 134. 〈◊〉 42 The reasons of T. C. agaynste the Booke of ordering Ministers pag. 134. c ¶ Bodye what it signifieth in Caluine 46 Of these wordes The Body of ou e Lord Iesus Christ. c. 6 ¶ Bragges 58. 297 ¶ Bread in the Communion Looke Communion Bread ¶ Brethren may be punished 809 ¶ Bucer of things indifferēt 113. c. Bucers censure of the first Communion Booke 595 615 Bucer defaced by the Replyer 522 ¶ Burialls 727. c The place of Buriall 737 The dutie of the minister not hindred by burying the dead 730 A prayer at Buryall expounded pag. 729 The dead buryed by the minister with prayer 728 Buriall Sermons Looke funerall sermons C ¶ Caius Fimbria 7 8 ¶ Caluine acknowledgeth the names of Archbishop c. 417. c Caluine of thinges indifferente 109 c. Caluine alloweth Superioritie 390. 398. Diuerse editions of Caluines institutions 391. 50 Caluines opinion of Communion bread 592. c ¶ Canon law not altogether condemned 463 c ¶ Can is not taken for ought 778 ¶ Catechist and pastor differ 425 Catechi mes 152. c ¶ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 69 ¶ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 69 ¶ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 280 ¶ Cathedrall Churches 742. c Cathedrall Churches before Antichristian Popes 747 A Colledge of Ministers in euery citie 747. Our Cathedrall Churches not much differing from those of old time pag. 747 The vse of Cathedrall Churches necessary 747 ¶ Cauilles 130. 352. 401. 506. 574. 585 628. ¶ A Caueat 448 A necessary caueat 481 ¶ Ceremonies of 2. sortes 80 How we haue but 2. ceremonies 119 Substantiall ceremonies 80 Accidentall ceremonies 80 Rules of ceremonies 86. 87 The controuersie about ceremonies confessed by T. C. 85. 86. 126 Euery church hath an order of ceremonies 707 How Ceremonies serue to edifying pag. 286. c. VVhy God appointed so many ceremonies to the Iewes 305 Disterence betwixt Popish ceremonies and oures 616 The ground of the Assertion about ceremonies vnanswered by T. C. pag. 94 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 158. c. 163 ¶ Children of Papists and excommu nicate persons may bee baptisedpag 621. c How children are said to beleue 608 ¶ Christ called Archbishop 300 Christ vsed vnleauened biead 593. c. ¶ Christian men sheepe but reasonable 172 The number of Christiās more now than in the Apostles times 175 ¶ Chrisostome an Archbishop 412. c. 472. Chris stome exerciseth Archiepiscopall iurisdiction in Asia 414 Chrisostome of distinctiō of degrees pag. 387 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 682 ¶ Church cannot be shut vp in one prouince now 465 The Church is reformed not transformed 474 To frame all churches after one is daungerous 481. 482 Church for the gouernours of the church 636. 66 No church maye challenge to bee a patterne necessarily to be followed 704 The church full of hypocrites 176 Some in the church and not of the church 179 No church established in the Apostles time how 180. 18 The church in persecution in Constantines time 188. 189 The Authoritie of the church in things indifferent 76. c. VVhat thinges are left to the order of the church 83. 88. c. 713. The
he hath once vttered And their ambition also is no lesse heere reproued which goe about to bring all Churches vnto the forme of their order and discipline and crie out that there is no discipline where all things are not correspondent to their orders and statutes but these men receyue a iust rewarde of their arrogancie when as they which come from them to other countreys do goe beyonde all other in sausy malopartnesse neyther bring they any thing with them from home but a vayne and vntollerable contempt of all good men neyther can they abide that they shoulde be corrected by nye admonition of others c. Beware of ambitious morositie and take héede of a new Popedome I thinke no Churche is so bounde to the example of an other but that in externall rites and ceremonies there is frée libertie giuen vnto it to appoynt what shall be for the presente state and time moste conuenient You may not binde vs to followe any particular Churche neyther ought you to consent to any suche newe seruitu Chap. 1. the. 14. Diuision T. C. Pag. 104. Sect. 3. An other faulte there is in the whole seruice or Lyturgie of Englande for that it maynteyneth an vnpreaching ministerie And so consequently an vnlawfull ministerie I say it maynteyneth no somuche in that it appoynteth a number of Psalmes and other prayers and chapters to be read which may occupie the tyme which is to be spent in preaching wherein notwithstanding it ough to haue beene more wary considering that the Diuell vnder this colour of long prayer dyd thus in the kingdome of Antichrist banishe preaching (*) 〈◊〉 à non 〈◊〉 ▪ I say not so muche in that poynt as for that it requireth necessarily nothing to be done by the minister which a childe of tenne yeare olde can not oe as well and as lawfully as that man wherewith the booke contenteth it selfe Io. Whitgifte This is a straunge collection that the booke of Common prayer maynteyneth an preaching ministery bicause it appoynteth a number of Psalmes and other prayers and chapters to be read whiche may occupie the time that is to be spent in preaching Would you haue prea ching onely and neyther reading nor praying in the publike congregation or doe you thinke that the chapters and prayers that are read occupie too long time or are you persuaded that there commeth no profite by rea ing and praying If you meane the first you haue the examples of the Churches in all places and at all tymes agaynst you if you meane the 〈◊〉 the time is not so long that is spent in praying and reading but that there may be preaching also the longest tyme if there b no Communion is not more than an houre and can you spende that houre better than in praying and hearing the scriptures read If you meane the thirde I shall haue oc asion to speake more of it héereafter But you say it dothe not so muche maynteyne an vnpreaching ministerie in that T. C. seeketh to deface the bo ke without reason poynt as for that it requireth nothing necessarily to be done by the minister whiche a childe of ten yeres olde can not doe as well and as lawfully as that man wherewith the booke contenteth it selfe It requireth of him besides playne and distincte reading the administration of the Sacramentes and maye a childe of ten yeres olde doe that also Who séeth not that you are of purpose set to deface the booke thoughe it be with chyldishe reasons Bicause a chylde may reade the booke dothe it therefore maynteyne an vnpreaching ministerie you mighte as well saye that bicause a chylde of ten yeres olde can reade the Byble translated into Englishe therefore the Byble translated into Englishe maynteyneth an vnpreaching ministerie This argument is à non caus Chap. 1. the. 15. Diuision T. C. Page 104. Sect. 3. Neyther can it be shifted in saying this is done for want of able men to be ministers for it may be easily answered that first the want of sufficient ministers ought to be no cause for men to breake the vnchaungeable lawes of God whych be that none may be made minister of the Church whych can not teache that none minister the sacraments whyche doe not preache for although it might be graunted whych thing I would not denie no not when there are inoughe sufficient ministers that they may appoynt some godly graue man which can oe nothing else but reade to be a reader in the Churche yet that may not be graunted that they may make of one that can do nothing but reade a minister of the Gospell or one which may haue power to minister the sacraments Io. Whitgifte Where is that vnchaungeable lawe of God that none may minister the sacraments Some may minister the sacraments which do no preache C rysost which doe not preache what Scripture or authoritie haue you for it Chrysostome Hom. 3. 1. Cor. 1. vpon these words Non enim misit me Christus vt baptizarem c. saythe thus He sayth not I was forbidden but I am not sent to doe this but to doe that whiche was more necessarie Euangelizare enim perp ucorum est baptizare autem cuiuslibe modò fungatur sacerdotio for few can preach the Gospel but euery man may baptise that i a priest And Ambrose vpon the same words and chapter sayth thus Non omni qui baptizat Ambrose idoneus est euangelizare verba enims lennia sunt quae dicuntur in Baptismate c. Euery one which baptizeth is not apte to preache the Gospell for the words that are spoken in baptisme are vsuall to conclude the Apostle Peter commaunded other to baptize Cornelius neyther dyd he vouchsafe to doe it himselfe other ministers beeing present c. Peter Martyr writing vpon the same words of the Apostle sayth likewise Therefore Peter 〈◊〉 the office of baptizing was committed to euery one in the Churche but not the office of preaching Neyther is it to be doubted but the Apostles themselues would haue baptized if there had lacked other ministers But seeing there was many whō they might winne to the Gospell by preaching they committed them to other to be baptized So sayth M. Caluine also vpon the same words Fewe there were to whome the office Caluine of preaching was committed but to baptize was committed to many c. Zuinglius in his booke de Baptismo of this matter speaketh thus The disciples administred Zuinglius the externall baptisme once with doctrine and the spirite for Christ taught and they did baptize as it appeareth Ioh. 4. And Paule sayde Christ sente me not to baptize but to preache therefore some taught and other some baptized Musculus also in his common places declareth that In some Churches some were Musculus in oc com de c na 〈◊〉 admitted to minister the Sacraments that were not admitted to preache And he dothe not disallowe that maner but alloweth it And M. Beza lib conf
with offence Yet if it be giuen vnto them by the wyll of the dead or for the bet er solemnizing of the burials of suche as be noble or worshipfull I sée no cause why it should be vnlaweful for them to take that which by such meanes is giuen vnto them otherwyse I thinke it not méete for preachers to make a common or vsuall gayne of it Chap. 6. the. 11. Diuision T. C. Pag. 163. Lin. 5. That must be remembred which I had almoste forgotten howe vntruely and slaundero slye M. doctor sayth that y e authors of the Admonitiō do compare the sermon with a trentall or a masse For when I saye in steade of the masse we haue the holy Communion do (*) Yea su ely if you peake to disc edite it I compare or liken the communion to y e m sse and yet this is M. doctors charitable collectiō which gathereth things which no man letteth all Io. Whitgifte If with that mynde and sense you saye the holy Communion is in steade of the Masse that they saye buriall Sermons are put in the place of trentals you saye wickedly and vngodly for they speake it in the euill parte to the deprauing of those sermons therfore I slaunder them not but they slaunderously speake of the preaching of y e word of God And for my vpright dealing with them in this poynt I refuse not the iudgement of any man that hath iudgement Chap. 6. the. 12. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag 201. Sect. 1. Touching the place of buriall I muse what you meane to mislike The place of Buriall of it seeing there hath always bene an appointed place for the same euen from Abraham to this daye T. C. Page 163. Lin. 10. Touching the place of buriall I haue spoken before And although it be not to be misliked that there should be a common place to bury in yet the places which M. doctor poynteth vs vnto proue the cleane contrary For by the story o Abrahams place of buriall it appeareth that y e manner was that euery one was buried in his owne seuerall grounde as may appeare also by that that the Euāgeliste Math. 27. sai h that there was a fielde bought to bury the straungers in which had no place of their owne which was also vsed sometimes in the churches vnder the Gospell as appeareth by the story of Theodoret which I haue before recited and in the latter ende of a funerall oration whiche Gregorie Naz anzene made of the death of his brother Cesarius And so by this reason M. Doctor would haue euery one buried in his owne possession Io. Whitgifte There haue bene placēs alwayes appointed to bury the dead in dedicated to that vse onely and therefore there may be so nowe neither haue you one word in any approued wryter to the contrary The conuenience of the place the pointing of it out is in the power of those that haue authoritie and be gouernours of the cōmon wealth and churche and with that place that by them is thought moste conuenient we ought to be contented Neither do I heare any reason to proue that there ought to be any alteration of the places already appointed Whatsoeuer you haue spoken to the contrary in the other place I haue there Tract 5. cap. 2 Diuis 7. answered ¶ Other particular matters for the which they refuse to subscribe to the booke Chap. 7. The. 1. Diuision Admonition The i ft As for the halfe Communi n which is yet appointed like to the commemoration Halfe comm nion of the Masse we saye little of it sauing that wee may note howe neare the translatour bounde hym selfe to the massebooke that woulde not omitte it Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 183 Sect. 1. I knowe not what you meane by the halfe communion I finde no such worde in the Communion booke If you meane the communion in one kinde you speake vntruely and slaunderously of the booke and of this whole church if you meane the scriptures and prayers appointed to be read when there is no Communion then do you vniustly liken them to the commemoration of the Masse being most fruitful scriptures and godly prayers Admonition The eight The publike baptisme that also is full of childysh and superstitious toyes First in their prayer they saye that God by the baptisme of his sonne Iesus Christ did sanctifie the floud Iordane and all other waters to the mysticall washing awaye of sinne attributing that to the signe which is i 1. Iohn 1. 7. Acts. 20. 28 Rom. 3. 24. proper to the worke of God in the bloud of Christe as though vertue were in water to washe awaye synnes Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 189. Sect. 6. 7. 8. By the first you saye that wee attribute to the signe that whiche is proper to the worke of God in the bloud of Christe as though vertue were in water to washe awaye synne You knowe very well that we teache farre otherwyse and that it is a certayne and true doctrine of all suche as professe the Gospell that the outward signes of the Sacrament doe not conteine in them Outward sacramentes do not giue grace grace neither yet that the grace of God is of necessitie tied vnto them but onely that they be seales of Gods promyses notes of Christianitie testimonies and effectuall signes of the grace of God and of our redemption in Christe Iesus by the whiche the spirite of God dothe inuisiblye worke in vs not onely the increase of faythe but confirmation also You vnderstande likewyse that this difference there is betwixt these externall elementes being selected to be sacramentall signes Sacramental signes that is betwixt water in baptisme common water bread wine in the Eucharist vsual bread wine that these now be sacraments sanctified to an other vse to a spiritual vse to the norishing of fayth and feeding of the soule to be instruments of the holy Ghost by the which as by instruments we be fed to eternal life Furthermore you can not be ignorāt that whosoeuer cōtemneth these external signes and refuseth them can not be a member of Christe neither yet saued Last of all you haue learned that there is suche a similitude betwixt Pag. 190. Sect. 1. 2. the signes and the thing signified that they are not onely in Scripture vsually called by the names of those things where of they be Sacramentes as bread the body of Christe and water regeneration but also that the contumelie or contempte done to the one doth redounde to the other that is the contempte of the signes is the contempt of the things signified and therefore S. Paule saith 1. Cor. 11. He that eateth and drinketh vnvvorthily eateth and drinketh his ovvne damnation Non dijudicans corpus domini And Christ Iohn 3. Excepte a man be borne of vvater and the spirite hee can not enter into the kingdome of heauen These things being cōsidered it is no superstitious toy but a
godly and true saying that Christe hathe sanctified all waters vsed in Baptysyng to the mysticall washyng awaye of synne not ascrybing or attributyng washyng awaye of synne to the externall elemente anye otherwyse than instrumentallye or in anye other respecte than for the similitude that Sacramentes haue with the thynges whereof they bee Sacramentes for wee knowe that wycked men maye receyue these externall signes and yet remaine the members of Sathan It is certainly true that the mysticall washing away of sinne is proper to the worke God in the bloud of Christ and for that purpose you might haue alledged much more playner and directer places of Scripture than moste of these whiche you haue noted in your margent but I thinke your meaning is not therefore to condemne the outwarde signes and Sacraments as the heretikes called Messalians did Admonition They pray that all men may be saued Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 202. Sect. 3. You say we pray that all men may be saued we do so indeede and what can Prayer that all men may be saued 〈◊〉 good you alledge why we should not so do S. Paule 1. Tim. 2. sayth I exhort therefore that first of all supplications prayers intercessions and giuing of thankes be made for all men c. And adding the reason he sayth For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Sauiour vvho vvill that all men shall be saued and come vnto the knovvledge of the truth The Apostle doth here will vs in plaine words to pray for all men euen that they may be saued for there vnto tende the wordes following Io. Whitgifte To this is nothing answered Chap. 7. the. 2. Diuision Admonition The thirtéenth In all their order of Seruice p 1. Co. 14. 16 there is no edification according to the rule of the Apostle but confusion They tosse the Psalmes in most places like tennese balles the people some standing some walking some talking some reading some praying by themselues attend not to the Minister He againe posteth it ouer as fast as he can gallop for eyther he hath two places to serue or else there are some (*) Games of Sodome games to be played in the after noone as lying for the whetstone heathnish dauncing for the ring a Beare or a Bull to be bayted or else Iacke an apes to ride on horsebacke or an Enterlude to be played and if no place else can bee gotten it must be done in the Church c. Now the people sit now they stande vp when the olde Testament is read or the lessons they make no reuerence but when the Gospell commeth then they (*) Standing at the Gospell came from Anastatius the Pope in An. 404. all stande vp For why they thinke that to be of greatest authoritie and are ignorant that the Scriptures came from one spirite When Iesus is named then off goeth the cap and downe goeth the knees with suche a scraping on the grounde that they cannot heare a good while after so that the worde is hindered but when any other names of God are mētioned they make no curtesie at all as though the names of God were not equall or as though all reuerence ought to be giuen to the sillables We speake not of ringing when Mattens is done and (*) Accidentall abuses other abuses incident bicause we shall be answered that by the booke they are not mainteyned onely we desire to haue a booke to reforme it Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 204. Sect. 1. 205. Sect. 1. 2. This is a slaunderous vntruth And the. 1. Cor. 14. abused to A slaunder of the Communion booke confirme it Whatsoeuer S. Paule requireth in that place is vsed in that booke of Seruice for first the whole Seruice is in a tongue knowne as S. Paule there requyreth that the people may vnderstand say Amen Then are the Scriptures read ▪ the Sacraments ministered according to Christes owne institution those that bee Godly disposed persons know what a manifest vntruth this is that you here vtter But mad men women and children must haue their wordes c. If by tossing of Psalmes you meane the singing of them alternatìm then do you disallow that which is both commendable and of great antiquitie as it appeareth in an Epistle that Basilius Magnus did wryte to the Ministers in Neocaesaria where he sheweth the selfe same order of singing Psalmes to be then vsed in the Church that we vse at this day If by tossing of Psalmes like tennise balles you meane the ouer hastie reading or singing of them it is indeede to be misliked but it is no part of the booke and therefore no cause why you shoulde absteyne from subscribing to it T. C Pag. 163. Sect. 1. To passe by the prophane prouerbe here vsed which matcheth mad men and women and childr togither ▪ most vnseemely for a D. of diuinit especially handling diuine matters for the singing of Psalmes by course and side after side although it be very auncient yet it is not commendable and so much the more to be suspected for that the diuell hath gone about to get it so great authoritie partly by deriuing it from Ignatius tyme and partly in making the worlde beleeue that this ocrat 6 ▪ 8. cap. Platin. cap. Damas. Theod. 2. lib. 24. cap. came from heauen and that the Angels were heard to ng after this sort which as it is a mere fable so is it confuted by Hystoriographers whereof some ascribe the beginning of this to Damasus some other vnto Flauianus and Dioo rus From whence soeuer it came it cannot be good (*) This is slat con r. ie to that you affirme pag. 109. Sect. considering that when it is graunted that all the people may prayse God as it is in singing of Psalmes there this ought not to be restrayned vnto a fewe and where it is lawfull both with heart and 〈◊〉 to sing the whole Psalme there i is not inecte that they should sing but the one half with their heart and voyce and the other with their heart onely For where they may both with heart and voyce sing there the heart is not enough Therefore besides that incommoditie whiche cōmeth this way in that being tossed after this sort mē cannot vnderstand what is song these other two incōuemences come of this forme of singing therfore is banished in all reformed churches Io. Whitgifte To the slaunderous vntruth of the Admonition or to my answere there vnto you say nothing but passe it ouer S. Paule vsed a prophane prouerbe in very serious and diuine matters when he sayde Cretenses semper mendaces c. ad Ti. 1. and therefore it well beséemeth a Doctor of Tit. 1. itie aptly and fitly applying it But why doe you not find fault with the Authors of the Admonition who vse a more prophane prouerbe that is tossing of tennise balles in as serious a matter You confesse that singing of Psalmes by course and