Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	baptism_n	john_n	water_n	8,157	5	7.3530	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A15057	An ansvvere to the Ten reasons of Edmund Campian the Iesuit in confidence wherof he offered disputation to the ministers of the Church of England, in the controuersie of faith. Whereunto is added in briefe marginall notes, the summe of the defence of those reasons by Iohn Duræus the Scot, being a priest and a Iesuit, with a reply vnto it. Written first in the Latine tongue by the reuerend and faithfull seruant of Christ and his Church, William Whitakers, Doctor in Diuinitie, and the Kings Professor and publike reader of Diuinitie in the Vniuersitie of Cambridge. And now faithfully translated for the benefit of the vnlearned (at the appointment and desire of some in authoritie) into the English tongue; by Richard Stocke, preacher in London. ...; Ad Rationes decem Edmundi Campiani Jesuitæ responsio. English	Whitaker, William, 1548-1595.; Campion, Edmund, Saint, 1540-1581. Rationes decem. English.; Stock, Richard, 1569?-1626.; Whitaker, William, 1548-1595. Responsionis ad Decem illas rationes.; Durie, John, d. 1587. Confutatio responsionis Gulielmi Whitakeri ad Rationes decem. Selections.	1606 (1606)	STC 25360; ESTC S119870	383,859	364

without faith but to his perdition who receiueth the Sacrament that monster I doe abhorre and detest with mine whole hart You adde therfore they haue made no more reckoning of the Baptisme of Christ then of Iohns that is a meere ceremonie I am not ignorant what the Fathers thought of the Baptisme of Iohn But I heed what the Scriptures teacheth not what they imagined In them both there was the u DVR But Matth. 3.11 Iohn baptised with water only Christ with the Spirit WHIT. pag. 669. Here is no comparison betweene the Baptisme but the persons for not Iohn only but not Peter nor any Minister of the Gospel can giue the holy Ghost to those whom they doe baptise Men giue but the outward signe it is Christ who giueth the Spirit DVR VVhy vvere they Act. 19 4.5 baptised againe vvhom Iohn had baptised if it be the same Baptisme WHIT. pag. 671. They were not rebaptised as Ambr●se saith de Spirit Sanct. lib. 1. cap. 3. And the 5. vers being S. Paule● words they are to be vnderstood not of those Ephesians but of the people whom John baptised As if S. Paul had said John taught those who came to his Baptisme to beleeue in Christ who was to come and they when they heard it were baptised in the name of the ●ord Iesus From this then can be gathered no differenc● of thes● tvvo Baptismes same ceremonie the same doctrine and the same grace If there were any thing vnlike in these things I refuse not to confesse that the Baptisme of Iohn and Christ were diuers Now Iohn ioyned repentance Mat. 3 2.1● Luk. 3.3 which is the fruit of true regeneration with his Baptisme and off●ed this Baptisme for the remission of sinnes If the Baptisme of Iohn wanted not repentance and remission of sinnes I see not why it should bee held so much different from the Baptisme of Christ And what is the cause * DVR Because that Baptisme did prepare men to regeneration of vvhich preparation Christ had no need WHIT. pag. 673. This is but your coyned distinction for the Fathers speake and answere otherwise Chrys●st in 3. Matth. not that he should receiue remission of sinne by ●aptisme but that be might leaue sa●ctified waters for those who should after be baptised And August in cat ●ur in 3. Matth. Our Sauiour would therefore be baptised not that bee might bee sanctified but that he might sanctifie the waters for vs. why the Fathers demand wherfore Christ who needed no regeneration did come to the Baptisme of Iohn but because they iudged that his Baptisme had the power of regeneration Concerning that which you annexe If you haue it it is well if you want it there is no hurt beleeue and you shall be saued before you bee baptised wee doe not speake so loosely as you imagine For wee will not haue it to be in any ones choice to be baptised if hee will and to leaue it if hee will not Yet wee doe not thinke that Baptisme is so x DVR VVhat If without Baptisme infants may obtaine eternall life is it not your iudgements that it is no burt to them though they want Baptisme But Christ thought farre ●therwise Ioh. 3.5 WHIT. pag. 675. It is a wicked and batbarou● opinion to thinke that they who die before they can come to Baptisme are damned For who will say that the infants of the Iewes who died before the eight day did p●rish And when in former ages they deferred Baptisme till the houre of death did they think it so absolute necessary Will you say that an infant is not of the nūber of the elect because God wil that he die before Baptisme if you will you shall be accounted bold rash and impious As for the place of Iohn Christ doth not thinke that none can come into heauen which wanteth the outward Baptisme The theefe was with Christ in Paradise and yet was vnbaptised with the outward Baptisme But the truth is by water Christ meaneth there the Spirit as appeareth by conference of places Matth. 3.11 As there fire so here water signifieth the power of the Spirit Ioh. 4.10 simplie necessarie to saluation that he that is not entred by Baptisme must needs perish euerlastingly For the saluation of a Christian man cōsisteth in the mercie of God which is not so tyed bound to any Sacraments y DVR God hath shewed his vvill Ioh. 3.5 And ●hen S. Paul makes all by nature the Children of wrath Ephes 2.3 If there be no remedie against this euill in the Scripture but Baptisme what can be but that they vvho die vvithout Baptisme must needs die in the same condition WHIT. 677. God in no place hath shewed this to bee his will that they who die without Baptisme shall perish Of the words of Christ haue ●in spoken which if they be vnderstood of Baptisme they belong only to those who are of growne yeares That by no other meanes we can be freed from the miserable state of nature but by Baptisme is very false For the Spirit of God doth in and without the Sacrament doth communicate his graces as that he cannot saue those whom he will not haue perish without them Where the opportunity of Baptisme is not Gods promise alone is abundantly sufficient of it selfe But whosoeuer either neglecteth Baptisme through heedlesnes or boldly contemneth it him we condemne of very hainous sin For he doth both diminish the Maiestie of Christ and also refuseth his owne saluation But he that committeth neither shal not answere for the fault of another Therefore verie right was that iudgement of Bernard z DVR He speaketh not of infants but of those vvho indued with true faith were preuented by an vntimely death that they could not be baptised WHIT. pag. 680. How truly you speake we may iudge out of the same Epistle For he thus writeth VVho is ignorant that in former times they had other remedies against originall sinne besides Baptisme for to Abraham and his seed vt as the Sacrament of Circumcision giuen to this end But in other nations so many as vvere found faithfull vvee beleeue that they vvho vvere of yeares vvere sanctified by faith and sacrifices but the parents faith did profit their infants yea and vvas sufficient for them If this was so before Christ shall we thinke the condition of infants is now worse not the want but the contempt of Baptisme is damnable Bernard in Epist. ad Hugon In the rest that follow as being small matters you doe but trisle For neither doe you your selfe declare any thing of your owne opinions nor can you reproue any thing in ours But I long to know what you thinke of the faith of Infants I suppose you wil grant that they haue grace For say you Baptisme conferreth grace But will you not yeeld that they haue faith I wish therefore you would teach me to the end you may draw me wholy into your opinion how

any do denie to be good and holy he may well be held blasphemous against the holy Ghost As for that you both faine that we speake these things and also expresse for what cause wee speake them you bewray your wonderfull wisedome which for those things that are not at all can set downe a reason wherefore they be But we doe willingly preach faith and doe easily permit it to bee contemned of you For you that defend nature against grace and doe trust rather to your owne power than to Christs mercie and doe make voide the promises by precepts cannot haue an honourable opinion of faith You neuer keepe your standing Of Sinne. Campian and you begin the battaile like a runnaway For you haue a wandring and vnstable wit as it seemeth You oppose Illyricus to vs againe in the same cause whose testimonie ought not to be of force against vs. For herein I professe my selfe no lesse an aduersarie to him than your selfe I had almost said than to your selfe For what an vniust and vnreasonable thing is it that you should taxe that opinion as defended by vs which your selfe knoweth to be condemned by our Churches Obiect our owne opinion to vs Campian if you can obiect any wee are not such as that we should thinke whatsoeuer Illyricus could as being a man erre in did any whit concerno vs. But either Illyricus must needes be drawne into this taxation or else this place was quite to be left voide by you For beside Illyricus I thinke you haue no man that thinkes so If you desire to know our opinion of this matter I confesse indeed that that defence of Illyricus did seeme euer very absurd to me For it both smels of the follie of the Manichies and it maketh two soules in a regenerate man and which is a greater matter it destroyes the soule That was alwaies the iudgemēt of the Catholike Church which I professe to be ours that the substance of the soule was not quite slaine by sinne but onely charged and infected with vitious qualities and that sinne is no inward substance of the soule but an r DVR The Catholike Church neuer beleeued that sinne was an accident or qualitie but only a priuation for if it were an accident God should be the cause and author of it WHIT. pag. 573. But this priuation is it not an accidentall thing vvhy then make you a scruple in vvords vvhen you vnderstand the sense An accident is commonly called that vvhich is in some substance but is no part of it vvhich may either be absent or present without the corruption of the subiect and such a thing euery man knovveth sinne is And though I confesse that the nature of sinne consisteth in a priuation yet it is not a bare priuation as you may learne ou● of your Thomas For. 1.2 quaest 82. art 1. he saith sinne is not a meere priuation but a corrupt habit like vnto a disease vvhereby not only health is taken avvay but bad humours are brought vpon the bodie And the Schoole men vvhen they make priuation of originall iustice to be the forme of originall sinne and the matter to be concupiscence or a corrupt inclination of the faculties of the soule vvhat doe they teach but that in sinne there is some positiue thing as Thomas vseth to call it But vvhy do I endeuour to refell you for vvhom Physike is fitter then a refuration As for your reason it hath no force for God is not to be accounted the author of all accidencies but indirectly and by accident Basil saith That the roote and cause of sinne is in our selues euen our freewill accident ſ DVR Basil saith not that sin is an accident or a quality but an affection cōtrary to vertue WHIT. pag. 575. Then must it be somevvhat for nothing cannot be contrarie to vertue Basill writeth truly in that hee denieth that sinne is any liuing substance or indued with a soule Basil i●ub●●p hons 2. August de nuptijs lib. 1. cap. 25. but a qualitie contrarie to the vertue of the soule Augustine t DVR Augustine vvill accuse you for slandering him because he spake not of sin but of concupiscence vvhich he accounted to be no sinne WHIT. pag. 576. Doth Augustine account concupiscence no sinne vvhy then calleth he it an affection of an euill quality vvhy doth he compare it to a disease vvhy doth he demaund the question hovv concupiscence should remaine in the regenerate vvhose sinnes are all remitted if it vvere not a sinne his ansvvere proueth it yet more fully For he saith concupiscence is remitted in Baptisme not that it should be no sinne at all as you vvould haue it but that it should not be imputed for a sinne If it vvere no sinne hovv could it be imputed for a sinne Finally August cont ●ulian lib. 5 cap. 3. affirmeth that it is a sinne and a punishment of sin and a cause of sinne and that in the regenerate It is manifest in the place that he speaketh of that concupiscence against vvhich the spirit lusteth and vvhich in vvithout the consent of the vvill It at any time he denie it to be a sinne it i● not simplie but in opposition to actuall sinne for hovv should that be nothing vvhich is remitted in Baptisme vvhich Christ satisfied for by his blood or is God angry vvith vs for nothing It must therfore needs be sin Originall sinne saith he remaineth not substantially as it were some bodie or spirit but it is a certaine affection of an euill qualitie like a disease Finally Ambrose most plainly Ambros in Rom. 6. c. 7. u DVR Ambrose his vvords refell your error WHIT. pag. 577. Nay they refell your error For hee saith it is a straying from good Novv this straying is an action and not a meere priuation And you your selues earnestly defend that sin is an action If it be an action then an accident then no meere priuation thē not nothing How dwelleth sin in the flesh seeing it is no substance but a straying from good Therfore let vs if you please send away the suspition of this error imposed by you vpon vs to the author himselfe As for that you adde that it is a thing commonly held by this filthie sect that all sinnes be equall verily nothing could be spoken more impudently Pardon me Campian if I answere you somewhat sharpely for your vnmodest and intolerable impudencie wrung that terme from me Are you so far spent that you are not able to charge vs with any true crime but shamelessely to obiect those things against vs from which we of all others are farthest off For who did euer more vehemently disallow or more strongly confute this paradoxe of the Stoiks than our Diuines whom you now pursue All records of these times may be witnesses hereof our bookes Churches and Schooles be witnesses as also both the ciuill and Church Discipline may be a witnesse Did you thinke that you could creepe