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A85141 The Holy Scriptures from scandals are cleared. Or An answer to a book set forth by the baptizers; to wit, Henry Hagger and Thomas Pollard, entituled, The Holy Scriptures clearing it self of scandals: but is scandalled or perverted, and so scandalized by them, as in this answer to theirs will further appear, so by them entituled, or bearing the title of an Answer to a book written by Richard Farnsworth, called, Truth cleared, or Truth lifting up its head above scandals: occasioned by a dispute at Harliston in Staffordshire, between Richard Farnsworth and Thomas Pallard, in the year, 1654. Also here is in this, the heads of an order, or late act made at Coventry, by the baptized people there, ... And something here is, in answer to a false prophet, called John Griffith, set out by him and several others, in a false prophesie or book, bearing the title of True Gospel faith, collected into 30 articles: or in the middle part called, A voice from the Word of the Lord, ... / Written by a servant of the Lord, in the sixth moneth, 1655. by R.F. R. F. (Richard Farnworth), d. 1666. 1655 (1655) Wing F487; Thomason E855_1; ESTC R202126 43,362 61

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thy lies as I have done That one Scripture thou didst mention of Ananias going to Saul and saying Arise brother Saul and be Baptised and wash away thy sins whereupon I asked thee if your water Baptisme did or could wash away sins and thou stood and gave little or no answer therein as many can witnesse And if nothing can wash away sins but the blood of Christ or the water of regeneration then it must needs be that the Baptisme which washeth away sins is either by one Spirit into one body 1 Cor. 12.13 and so into Christ Gal. 3.27 and into the blood or life of the Covenant or else into the holy unction and water of regeneration where there is but one faith one Lord one God and Father of all them that are borne of the Spirit and so Baptised into that one Baptism Eph. 4.4.5.6 But thou couldest not witnesse that your outward water Baptisme did or could wash away sins then it is not that Baptisme which doth and being confounded in thy selfe thou would have gon forth of the doores but that I took thee by the arme and stayed thee awhile and spoke to thee till thou could not tell what to say for thy selfe but said the letter which thou called the written word and the Spirit were inseparable and then said the letter was a Historie And I told thee if I should have called it a History then others would have been ready to have called that blasphemy and being put to prove thy sayings thou could not but to thy shame got from mee and went away and they of thy own company spoke to thee of it and were grieved to see thy folly so made manifest as many can witnesse but in that I cease and let the other book witnese in that thing and the rest further to and for the truth against thy deceipt And in thy 32 lie Being so accustomed to it thou saies we wickedly speake against Christ and his ordinances But wickednesse and wicked speaking we deny who own honour and dearly love the Lord Jesus Christ and his ordinances speaking wickedly against them shall stand for thy selfe and such liers and false accusers as thou art and that is thy 32 lie And in thy 33 lie Thou saith that when I asked thee whether thy water Baptism did or could wash away sins in thy book to make a cover and manifest thy lying Spirit the more in that as well as in the rest of thy lies thou hast done thou sayes thou told me such words as is expressed in thy 17. page when there was then no such thing by thee done and therefore in that thou hast lyed of thy self but lying is thy work and that Spirit which guides thee is accustomed to it And in page 19 thou sayes we have a spirit of delusion that is thy 34th lie comming from Hell and darkness but cannot prove it yet that spirit by which thou art taught of old Antichrist to delude which hath caused thee to utter these lies is such a one and therefore what thou art guilty of thou would cast upon us but we deny thy spirit of delusion and lies and testifie against it and thee and such hellish darknesse as thou art possessed withall that regards not what falsely against us and the truth thou ventest but it toucheth us not and therefore turnes back upon thee againe and is to be cast into the bottomless pit from whence it came Lie the 35 that spits out such venome against the ordinances of Jesus Christ that is thy own and turnes back upon thee againe for Christ Jesus and his ordinances and worship in Spirit and spiritualI ordination we honour and own but spitting of venom comes out of thy brest take it into thy old bottle from whence it came And for thy 6th thing or head is another of thy lies and makes thy number 36 such words as are there set downe was not set downe in my booke which thou pretends to write this in answer unto therefore the absurdities spoken of and also the lies is turned back upon thee againe pag. 20. 21. For the Scriptures I own and that holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost 2 Pet. 20.21 but liers like thee I deny and against testifie Eph. 5.11 and the Scriptures serves to be a witnesse against such as professe them in words and walke contrary to them in life and conversation but liers slanderers and false accusers doe so as thou Haggar and Griffith and such like doth and therefore the Scriptures doth witnesse against you and your generation and seed of evill doers And such hath the benefit and comfort of the Scriptures as are guided by the holy Spirit into the life and power from whence good Scripture words proceeded yet the letter is not the life Joh. 5.39.40 and power of God to salvation but Christ and the Gospel is which the letter or Scriptures declares and testifies of Joh. 14.6 1 Joh. 5.12 Act. 4.12 Hebr. 5.8,9 Rom. 1.16 But thou seems as if thou would have a letter God a letter Christ a letter Spirit and a letter power to salvation or set the letter or Scripture up as God and Christ and power of God to salvation for thou saies faith comes by hearing the Scriptures preached which thou calls the Gospel and if by it thou saies then not without it and so according to that no Scripture no faith no salvation for without faith it is impossible to please God and be saved but according tothy saying or false doctrine no Scripture no faith and so making Scripture the moving cause of mens salvation for if there can be no saith without the Scripture then Christ might not be the author of it neither upon that account could he give faith if the Scripture were wanting and if there an be no faith without the Scripture thou would not have Christ to be the author and finisher of it but the letter and so sets the Scripture in the roome of Christ saying take away the Scripture which thou calls the cause and then the effect thou saies ceaseth so no Scripture no savtation upon thy account as much as to say the Scripture is the cause of mans salvation and not Christ and rake away the Scripture the cause and the effect ceaseth mind your Error or Lies herein Christ cannot give faith nor save without them and by that meanes or according to that saying or false doctrin of Haggars and thine for he hath backed thee in it no faith without the Scripture though Christ be the way to faith and the moving cause of it and so both the beginning and ending or author and finisher of it as the Scripture saith and saith Christ without mee you can do nothing then not beleive without him for he is the way to the Father Joh. 14.6 and so to faith who is both the author and finisher of it Hebr. 12.2 and here thou hast shewed thy ignorance of the Gospel and
true Spirits order to further make manifest your disorder and also your Spirit of delusion and errour And again you say God will judge the secrets of all hearts by the written word or letter of the Scripture when the Minister of Christ saith the contrary who saith that God will Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ Rom 2.16 then not by the lettet of the Scripture and the Son saith All judgment is Committed unto him and the Father hath given him authority to execute judgment also because he is the Son but he hath not given authority to the letter of the Scripture to execute judgment because it is the letter of the Scripture and declareth or testifieth of the Son but is not the Son then the Scripture is not the judge of all hearts but the Son is so to wit the judge of all hearts as the Scripture declareth Joh. 5.22 and Joh. 5,26.27 Act. 17 31. Take notice how you would deprive Christ of his Kingly office and take the authoritie from him to put upon the letter and hath againe thereby further manifested your Spirit of errour THE HOLY SCRIPTURES Are cleared of Scandals OR AN ANSWER TO A BOOK Written by Thomas Pallord Henry Hagger As they say In Answer to a Book set ●orth by Richard Farnworth wherein they pretend to clear the truth of Scandals but are found Lyars and the Lyes is sent them back in a bundle or number that they may see their deceipt and Spirit or Lies Errors and Slanders THo Pallord and Henry Hagger who are mighty in the work of your Father John 8.44 you pretend to clear the truth of Scandals but of it are Lyars and Scandallers and evil Speakers and false Accusers and therefore that you may take notice of the fruit of your Fathers Spirit by which you are guided and taught to lie I have viewed your work or scandalous and deceitful Book and gathered out of it being numbred up the sum of 60 and odde or Threescore Lies and more besides many that I have passed by these being sufficient for to manifest your Spirit and the deceit of your heart as also severall lies gathered out of a Paper written or caused to be Printed under the name of John Griffith oue of the water Baptizers with you or in your number and I hare also sent them back amongst you into the lyars Generation again take them and keep them for they are returned back upon you and into the lyars generation from whence they came that Truth may be kept clear and you appear in your lying colours or be laid open who are such great deceivers unto your shame who hath taken upon you to slander and revile the Lotds people by you in disdain called Quakers and also to Prophesie or publish your lies in pretence of the Lords Name But to bo wort I shall lay several of them down return them back upon you from whence they came Tho Pollard Thou hast set down things which I neither spoke nor writ and says I affirmed them when I did not and therefore thy gronnds being lies that which springs out of them is so as well as thy Grounds or Heads but I turn them under and drive them back with the rest of thy Lies into the Serpents seat ugain lyars Generation from whence they came E●…or or Lie the first In thy third page Thou says it is such a deceipt that they that say they have no sin the truth is not in them but thou cannot prove thy saying therein whose fallacy is laid down in that word they which includes any when the Scripture says not so as thou dost and therefore in that thou hast lyed of the truth and truths friends as it appeareth And here thou goes about to prove that Christ and such as are in him hath no truth in them and that is contradiction to the Scripture and the Spirits Doctrine for thou fetbheth Christ in with them and includes all in that word they saying They that say they have no sin the truth is not in thom as much as to say They that are without sin are without truth and have no truth in them but Christ and such as are in him are without sin Therefore if they say they are without sin there is no truth in them as thou says for that is contrary to thy proofless Argument Pollard or Hagger whether of you laid it down take notice of your folly therein here thou would by that have Christ and such as are in him to have no truth in them see what a trick the deceit hath taught thee in that for first it is said of Christ That he sinned not and so was without sin for no guile was found in his month and therefore he was without sin and the truth was in him contrary to thy lying of him for he is both the way the truth and the life Joh. 14.6 and is without sin but full of truth and such as abide in him they sin not as saith the Scripture 1 Joh. 3.5,6 then such as abide in Christ sin not as the Scripture saith they are without sin 1 John 3.9 and the truth is in them for such said That as he was so was they in this present world 1 John 4.16,17 Pallard take notice of thy Errors and Lies and also of thy contradiction of the Scripture For they that did abide in Christ and sinned not 1 John 3.6 they were so far trom being without truth or having no truth in them that they were full of grace and truth for the Spirit of God was in them which was truth and no lie 1 John 3.24 And secondly the word of God was in them 1 John 2.14 and they were strong in the Lord and the power of his truth for they had overcome the wicked one and the word of God were abiding in them and so the truth of God abode within them for saith Christ to his Father Sanctifie them with thy word thy word is truth John 17.17 Then they that had overcome the wicked one and were sanctified through the truth and were without sin having also the word of God abiding within they were full of truth and not without it or no truth in them take notice of thy absurdities and lies for they had the holy Unction within them that were without sin and that was truth and no lie 1 John 2.20 and 27. and greater was he that was in them then he that was in the World 1 Iohn 4.4 take notice of thy lie and that trick of thy deceit Error or Lie the second Thy second Lie is that thou saies we boast of perfection perfection in and by Christ we own else we should deny the truth and the worke of grace according to the working of the Spirit of God as it is witnessed according to the Scripture and by the Ministrie of Christ in the new Covenant Math. 5.48 and Eph. 4.11.12.13 1 Cor. 2.6 Heb. 6.1 Heb. 12.22.23 but though we witnesse
made thy self manifest and being guided by a lying spirit thou art to be denyed but thou says now is the hour of temptation for if these be not wicked errors I know not what is Yes thy many lies which before with the rest that are set down are so and the Scriptures which thou so much talks of hath not kept thee for falling into them but thou would put it off and say they are those which are laid down to their view which Farnsworth did stand by to vindicate if his own testimony may stand Here again I charge thee to be a lyar and a false accuser and that they was not so testified by Farnsworth as thou hast set them down thinking thereby to strengthen thy deceit neither canst thou prove them to be so in his testimony or book which thou hast written thine in answer unto and there thou art proved the Lyar in that as well as the rest and therefore thou art left with them charged upon thee and there they are to remain clear thy self if thou can for this book doth not clear thee but lets thy filthiness more appear neither doth it at all weaken the book thou pretendest it against but it stands yet for the truth against thy deceit as this doth stand to witness against thy lies which in thine thou hast scraped together or heaped up to manifest that thou art not builded upon the rock and therefore thy building cannot stand who makes lies thy refuge being set upon the sand as thy lies and confusion maketh it manifest for the tree is known by its fruits as thou art by thine Matth. 7.15 And where thou saist to the Reader that we deny the rule of Tryal to try the spirits withal that is another of thy lies For in thy 28. Lie page the 14. thou saist The rule of tryal to try the spirits withal is thrown away by them And in thy 29 Lie Thou saist it is become of none use to those men except it be for advantage take notice of thy Lies and also of thy own confusion within thy exception for that which is for a good use and right advantage is not thrown away but made use of but the tryal or Tryer spirits is not by us thrown away though thou say it is but made use of according to thy saying in thy self-confutation and it is both advantagious and profitable for us and also to try your deceits withal take notice of that and take heed how thou utterest thy folly as thou hast done And where thou saist many poor souls have been misled as to say that which men call sin doth as highly honor God as that which men call Prayers and holy performances and faith these things thou hast heard uttered by mouth and seen in print and hath as it were cast it as a slander upon upon us and doth accuse us with it where thou saist this is their principle and how doth it open a door of loosness pag. 14. Such Principles we do deny and thy slander also and all that knows our Principles and practice may witness against thee in thy filthy Slanders And I charge thee in the presence of the Lord and also Haggar thy partaker to prove that ever such things were ever spoken or printed by us or else be ashamed for ever and own condemnation upon your wicked lies and gross errors who are so far misled as to act Antichrists part making lies your refuge seeking thereby to hold up your deceir And to thy fourth That thou says Farnsworth affirmed that Christ had not a visible Church in the world for thou saies they are his principles set downe in his book that the Church was in God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is in his books that he affirmeth and the Scriptures witnesseth the same 1 Thessalon 1.1 2 Thessalo 1.1 and that the Church is made of living stones elect and pretious a spirituall house for God to dwell in by the Spirit and officers and over-seers were made by the Holy-Ghost and he is not visible for the world seeth him not neither knoweth him and that is in his book and the Scriptures witnesseth the same at which thou art offended 1 Pet. 2.5.6 John 14 17. Ephes 2.20.21.22 Acts 20.28 And God is a Spirit and his Church is spirituall and they endured as seeing him who is invisible which thou appeares to be ignorant of and thou saith to manifest thy darkness and ignorance therein because Farnsworth tells of an invisible or spirituall Church he thou saies is no member nor officer in that Church because he is a visible man as much as to say Paul that eminent Apostle because he was a visible man as to the outward body his visible or bodily absence did exclude his invisible or spirituall presence from the Church and that is contrary to the Scriptures and Crosseth his experience and spirituall doctrine also who him-self said that tho he was absent in body yet he was present in Spirit beholding their order Col. 2.5 then it was a spirituall order and rule or government in the Church and the visible and bodily absence of Paul did not exclude his invisible or spiritual presence but that thou art blind in the things of God the Spirit of God as the Serpents seed ever was and according to that former saying of thine because Christ was visiblely ascended far beyond all Heavens Acts. 1.11 Jesus of Nazareth could not be invisibly persecuted by the contrary Spirits invisible men c. And that is cross to the Scriptures for after Christ was so visiblely ascended he spake to Saule that persecuted his seed and he said Saul Saul why persecutest thou mee he said Lord who art thou that I persecute he said I am Jesus of Nazareth and he were ascended far beyond all Heavens Acts 9.4.5 When he were invisible by a contrary Spirit in a visible man so persecured or his seed in his Saints and such as were his Church that was chosen out of the world Joh. 15.18.19 which Church thou hast shewed thy ignorance of and thy blindnesse in That Farnsworth should say or affirme that all ordinances ceased when Christ ascended and gave the Spirit was never so spoken by him neither canst thou find such a saying in that book which thou pretends to write thine in answer unto therefore thy ground or fifth head being false so is thy scraped up stuffe and turned under by which thou seeks to make a cover and thou art also left charged with that thy 30 Lie And where thou hast gathered many Scriptures in thy book about the Spirits teaching and Baptisme c thou saies when thou instanced those Scriptures before which thou hast set downe thou saies Farnsworth said that was not water Baptisme here thou hast lied againe and that is thy 31 Lie saying thou did before mention those Scriptures when thou did not then mention them and thou saies many can witness it but then it must be against thee and