Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	baptism_n	baptize_v	holy_a	6,403	5	6.2103	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A89859	Weaknes above wickednes, and truth above subtilty. Which is the Quakers defence against the boaster and his deceitfull slanders. Clearly seen in an answer to a book called Quakers quaking; devised by Jeremiah Ive's against the dispised contemptible people trampled on by the world, and scorned by the scorners. In which the deceits are turned into the deceivers bosome, and the truth cleared from the accuser. In much plainesse, that the simple may see and perceive, and come to be gathered to the Lamb, from amongst the armies of the wicked, who have now set themselves against the Lord, and sees it not. Also some queries to Jeremy Ive's touching his false doctrine and deceits. / by one who is called, James Nayler.	Naylor, James, 1617?-1660.	1656 (1656)	Wing N327; ESTC R207303	22,439	32

it was God who wrought all their works in them to will and to doe of his good pleasure and without Christ they could nothing and the Saints obedience was through the Spirit and the works of the Children of light are wrought in God but thy works and thy obedience which thou hast not received from God are none of Christs and therefore thine own and so selfe righteousnesse Thou sayedst that whosoever speaks what those doe not understand to whom he speaks is a foole and a Barbarian Whereas the Scripture saith that Christ spoke many things Luke 18. 34. 2. 50. 9. 45. John 10. 6. 12. 16. in Parables which were not understood by them that heard him nay his Disciples understood none of those things for his sayings were hid from them in many things neither understood they the things which were spoken So thou mayst read thy blasphemy and what Spirit thou art of who by thy deceitfull vaine Phylosophy would prove Christ a foole and blaspheme that Spirit which spoke the Parables in Scripture to such as thee and your carnall understanding Thou sayedst none were baptized with the Holy Ghost but who wrought Miracles A thing far beyond thy proofe for Miracles were to cease but so was not the baptisme of the Spirit though at first they were given because of Unbelievers What Miracles wrought Timothy or Titus and what Miracles did they of Samaria spoken on Acts 8. or these Believers of Rome and many other that might be mentioned shewing thy untruth and ignorance as to the gift of the Holy Ghost But how shouldest thou now know the effects of the Holy Ghost who hast not received him as thou didst confesse before the people that thou wast not baptized of the Holy Ghost and so thou madest it appear by thy fruits who saidst That all good is not of God That Christ was not a Minister of the Circumcision That the Law was not given forth by Christ That John went not out of Jerusalem to baptize and when I told thee he baptized in Jordan and in the Wildernesse thou sayedst that Wildernesse was in Jerusalem and Jordan also Thou sayedst also Thou couldest fore-tell things to come and yet denyed the Baptisme of the Spirit to which I told thee then and tell thee againe that to fore-tell things to come without the Spirit of God is witchery And much more such like stuffe thou utteredst which thou hast gathered in by thine imaginations which are lies and deceits whereby thou leadest blind people into errour keeping them from the teachings of the Spirit in thy traditions which is neither according to spirit nor letter as is plaine in these things in thy water-baptisme wherein thou art erred from that in the letter both in thy call in the manner and in the end thereof as it was practised by the Apostles For they that were called to baptize were first called out of their habitations and made proofe of to be Disciples of Christ by denying all and following him and they were none of them living in their worldly estates as thou dost and they were either Prophets or Apostles immediately called from the Lord to that work and did not take it up by imitation as thou dost and so thou art neither in their call place nor power who hast not left all to follow Christ nor hast received the Holy Ghost And as to the manner they did not baptize those over againe with water that were baptized before but baptized such with the Holy Ghost which thou hast not thy selfe by thine own confession And as to the end they did not goe amongst Believers and by their water divide them into Seperations as you have done by your water who have set up so many formes of Baptisms till you have devided those who had some simplicity in them into Sects and Opinions concerning your water till you have left the Spirit and are left in conformity to the world in weightier things Neither did they limit the Spirit of God to the water as you doe who deny any to Prophesie in that you call your Churches till you have dipt them or sprinkled them over againe after your fashion Neither did they lay it as a thing of absolute necessity upon all But they went among such that did not believe that Christ was come and made them Disciples before baptizing them out of unbeliefe out of Sects and Opinions and Divisions gathering them out of all Formes Ceremonies and worships into one faith one body one light one way one baptisme which yours ends in the quite contrary setting up formes and divisions and opinions and rents and contentions about your carnall water scattering abroad in your Imaginations But theirs was gathering in the Spirit so that is plaine that which you have set up is but Imaginations for it is not according to the letter being erred from it both in the call manner and the end for what is taken up from the letter must in all things follow the patterne he being cursed that adds or diminishes And from the Spirit thou canst not have it who art not baptized with the Holy Ghost thy selfe nor having any immediate Call from the person of Christ So with the light of Christ in thy conscience take notice what thou art doing and repent Cease to keep people in blindnesse and from going right on their way by thy tradititions and if Paul said they were bewitched who had begun in the Spirit and was led back by such into Circumcision though a true command of God then read thy work who art drawing people into thy tradition which as thou performest it was never commanded of God nor ever so practised by any who had the Spirit of God So if you who are called Anabaptists consider your unfaithfulnesse to your principles as to that which should have led you out of conformity to the world and their worships and fashions and seriously weigh in the light of Christ you may see more cause to repent of your sticking in that of water both out of the form and power then of accusing others for neglect who are going on in obedience to the Spirit bearing witnesse against all the worlds wickednesse vaine worships and customes and yours among the rest From a lover of your soules but not of your deceit J N The fourth Error thou chargest us with is because we bear Testimony to the Light of Christ which lighteth every one that cometh into the world and that this spirituall light of Christ is sufficient to teach in all the wayes of God and lead to God and this is counted and Error and yet in thy 36 page doth confesse the sufficiency thereof andthis is it that is our teaching which is witnessed in plaines by Christ the Prophets Apostles as John 1. 9. Joh. 8. 12. Joh. 5. 33. and herein thou canst not slander us but Christ and the holy men of God must suffer with us But sayest thou it is true that Christ is the

excluded Thy thirteenth errour is that James Nayler said that none can come unto God or Christ but who come to perfection whereby it seems thou denies God or Christ to be perfection for be they granted to be perfection then none can come to them but they come to perfection But how blinde thou art who calls this an Errour is easily seen thy faith and thy doctrine who preaches against perfection but the Ministers of Christ preached to present every man perfect which thou preaches gainst Eph. 4. 11 12 13. Col. 1. 28. So we rather chuse the Apostles doctrine which standing in the faith of God which believes perfection though by the Infidells it be called Errour then imbrace a doctrine of Devills that doth not believe perfection neither was there ever any of the children of God in thy work pleading against perfection and for sin dwelling in them Thy fourteenth Errour is that I say that at all seasons whensoever the Saints either eat or drink they were to have Communion with the body and blood of Christ in their eating and drinking I say this must needs be counted an Error with the belly Gods of the world who deny the faith of Christ and so know no word in them to sanctifie the Creature such is not like to have Communion with Christ but with the lust who serve their own bellies who are at the table of Devills are not like to have Communion with the Lord but are observers of times and carnall things and therefore to such it must needs be counted an Errour so often as they eat and drink thereof to doe it in remembrance of him till he come if this be received for a truth the Devill knows there is no place for the Lust and so would hold it for an errour that he might feed without fear Thy fifteenth Errour is that James Parnell denyed all Baptismes but that of the holy Ghost so that to own the Baptism of Christ and to deny all else with thee is counted an errour but did not the Apostle erre also who said we are all baptized into one body by one Spirit and witnessed one faith and one baptisme and said he was not sent to baptize and this he witnessed who had the faith of Christ which thy faith counts an Errour And thou goes about to prove your water by questions and crooked consequences as from Circumcision and the like but cannot find one Scripture that doth command it with water after Christ sufferings or otherwise then Johns ministry wherein all may see your foundation who say the Scripture is your Rule but cannot find one plaine Scripture for that which you so highly worship and would impose upon all as a matter of salvation but must flye to your consequences to hold up that which you would make people believe is an everlasting Ordinance for which you can shew no command neither from Letter nor Spirit Moses in all his house left his Ordinances upon better grounds then consequences and meanings and that he which is much more faithfull should come short is not believed by those that know him but suppose that any doe yet own that forme of Baptisme used by the Disciples in John Ministration with that they must deny your tradition which misseth theirs both in Call Manners and Find as I have often proved for he that faith the Letter is his rule must not misse it in any thing for it they break it in one he is guilty of all much more you that misse in the maine Thy sixteenth errour is that we preach that every Man in the world hath a light within him and yet one of us thou sayest asked a Minister of the Nation whether he had that light which doth enlighten every one that comes into the world so that to ask a question which is a known Truth to prove the party asked with thee must be an Errour and this thou hoyseth up with great swelling words as though it were the greatest Errour that ever was in the world and sayes herein we are the sad spectacle of Gods spirituall judgements that ever any age hath heard of and many such loud exclamations against us for this great Errour But what thinks thou of Christ who askt the Disciples whom they said he was and yet knew they had this light in them which revealed him to be the Son of God hadst thou then lived and heard it he should not have escaped thy censure besides many other questions that he asked well known to him before the asking of them And thou goes on heaping up a deal of confusion and accuses some body but names not who sor saying that they might as well have burt the Scripture as his writing being given forth by the same Spirit the Scriptures were and by this thou sayest all that thou hast said is justified to which I say the works of the Spirit are known to be the same in their severall measures as ever they was neither is it to be more undervalued then formerly but how that Man saying so if any such there was doth justifie all thy lyes and false accusations cast upon us is a slender proof yet if we will believe thee it justifies all Thy seaventeenth Errour is thy lye where thou sayes we study and devise deceitfull tearmes that look with two faces like the Oracles of the Heathen Gods And the substance of this slander is because that Farnsworth when he was charged to say that Paul was not converted when he spoke those words in the 7 of the Romans he denyes that he doth affirme any such thing and this is counted a great Errour for sayes thou it was a negative as though it was not an affirmative to affirme there is not such a thing as well as to affirme there is such a thing and this thou aggravates as a great offence whereby thou shews in plainnesse to all that are honest that thou canst find nothing of matter against us therefore thy mischievous minde having a mind to slander hath the thing to make out of thine own bosome wherewithall to doe it Thy eighteenth Errour is that which thou call our lying First in that we say we are perfect and this is a lie of thy own and shall rest upon thy head till thou prove we have so said The second is that we say we are immediately sent of God which is a truth in them who are so sent so to say and the lie is thine own till thou prove the contrary The third lie is that one Fox said the world did not know his Name and yet after saith known by the Name of George Fox I say the Saints who have over come have a new name which none knows but he that hath it yet all the knowledge the men have of them is by a carnall name and this is true and witnessed onely the lye is in thy own ignorance The fourth lye is that Edward Burrough said his Book was sealed with the Spirit and this is

without the word and in this respect and no other doe we deny many who would make the letter the word which thou wouldst do did none know better then to believe thee and not onely so but would stop the mouth of God from speaking any more in his people or us for confessing to his word in us at which thou wrangles with words not worth heeding Thy third Errour thou charges us with is that we say we are immediatly sent of God and that thou canst not receive and yet art not ashamed to count me a lyar for saying That I coming in the name of God thou couldst not receive me but if I had come in my own name thou couldest But what spirit thou art of and of whose message thou goest is plainly seen who sets it down as an Error to say they are sent of God doth not thou herein justifie the false Prophets who run unsent and would not thou have condemned the true Prophets and Apostles as thou dost us had thou lived in their dayes who said they were sent of God and did not work Miracles in the sight of all they preacht to which thou requirest or else thou wilt not believe but the Devills faith could never believe Gods Messengers with Miracles nor without Miracles it s not like thou shouldest believe any that is sent of God who denies that Faith which is the gift of God and so calls that error which all the Ministers of Christ doth own and that which thou calls error we own and make proof thereof in our measures as they did in patience in afflictions in necessities and distresses in stripes and Imprisonments in tumults in labours in watchings and fastings c. and in turning people from their in quities which thou falsly sayes is not a singne of a Minister of Christ Then thou goes on a deceitfull story glorying in lyes adding words that was never spoken and diminishing truth to make thy selfe a cover with a lye concerning our disputes but doth not speak the truth as to thine own blasphemous Heresies which thou affirmed and went about to maintaine at Gerrard Roberts our first meeting and at other places which thy deceit hides such as these following to wit thou affirmed before many witnesses That Faith by which men are saved is not the gift of God That a man may understand the Scriptures without the Spirit of God and so try Spirits That all good is not of God That the obedience of believers is not the gift of God That the Law was not given forth by Christ That Christ was not the Minister of Circumcision That none was baptized with the holy Ghost but who wrote Miracles That John Baptist went not out of Jerusalem to Baptize That the Wildernesse in which John baptized was in Jerusalem That Jordan in which John did baptize was in Jerusalem That whosoever speaks that which they to whom he speaks doe not understand he is a foole and a Barbarian Thou said also that thou could foretel things to come and yet was not baptized with the Spirit Of which Errors I writ to thee in a Letter presently after but could never receive an answer thereof Also thy other deceits holden forth at the Bull and Mouth which were such as these That Christ lighteth every man that cometh into the world but this light was not within That the Heathen had a light that convinc't them of sin but this light was not within them That Christ took away the sin of every Man that cometh into the world Hadst thou intended honesty thou shouldst have published the whole Truth but it is the way of the Author of thy faith to cover himselfe with lyes but it is but that he may be laid open where he is and that truth may discover other of thy lyes and old stories of Austin the Monk Gregory the Pope and the King of Kent which are things more fit to rot then to be raked in I passe them by as most sutable to returne them back into the bottle from whence they came And least thou shouldst deny that I sent thee such a letter which thou never answered I shall here publish a Copy thereof that thou may answer it in thy next and others may see I have not wronged thee which Letter is as followeth Jeremy Ive's THY blasphemous deceitfull Doctrines wherewith thou leads simple people into confusion and destruction I am moved to put thee in mind of that if thou be not wilfully blind thou mayst see thy selfe out of the power of God yea and out of the forme of the sound words in the letter also as appeared in thy discourse when I was with thee some of the particulars whereof I shall mention as thou didst affirme them before many witnesses First Thou saidst that a man may understand the Scriptures without the Spirit of God and so try the Spirits But the Scripture saith Without Christ you can doe nothing John 15. 5. John 5. 30. 1 Cor. 2. and saith that Christ could doe nothing of himselfe and that the naturall man cannot know the things of the Spirit of God because they are spiritually discerned and that no man knows the things of God but the Spirit of God and that the Spirit searcheth Judges and reveals all the things of God c. And thy tryall of Spirits by the letter without the Acts 13. 27. Spirit is the same by which Christ was tryed by the Pharisees who read the Scripture of the Prophets every Sabbath but not understanding their voyces by the letter put him to death and thou art not wiser without the Spirit of God then they was and so art found an enemy to him as they was and in the same Spirit Thou said also That the Faith by which we are saved is not the gift of God But the Scripture saith By Grace you are saved through Ephes 2. 8. Faith not of your selves it is the gift of God and that Christ is the author and finisher of the Saints faith and every H b 12 2. James 1 17. John 3. 27. 2. Cor 4 13 Jude 3. Heb. 11. 1. good gift comes from above from the father of light and that a man can receive nothing except it be given him from above and that the Saints had the Spirit of Faith and that the saith to salvation was delivered to the Saints and that Faith is the substance of things hoped And thou sayest it is not the gift of God so thy Faith which is not the gift of God is the Faith of the Devill and from him thou hast received it who hast not received it from God whereof thou mayst read James 3. Thou sayedst also that the obedience of Believers is not the gift of God But the Scripture saith that the Saints obedience was 1 Pet 1. 2. Isa 26. 12. Phil 2. 13. Phil 2 13. 1 Pet. 1. 22. John 3. 21 through the sanctification of the Spirit and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus and that

Church which is his body which cannot be said to be Christ distinct from that body and so cannot properly be said to have two bodies the one of them being the Christ Neither doe we herein deny that Christ our head to take flesh wholly as thou falsly accuseth us but we own him that came from Heaven and is ascended into Heaven that word that became flesh and dwelt among us which thou knowest not who hath denied that faith which is the gift of God with Himancus Pluentus with whom thou wouldst charge us adding a lie thereto as though we say the Resurrection is past And another lie thou tellest that one of us being asked the Question answers that Christ was but a figure and to prove that lie thou sayest See Sauls Errand to Damascus page 54. when that Book hath but 37 pages in it a sutable proof for such a lie Neither is there such an Answer by any of us in all that Book as thus thou proves thy work with thy owne shame And thou goes on to tell whom we have affinity with as Gnosticks and Mamchers c. but is not thy affinity with them who art so well skill'd in their Opinions which we meddle not with and is it not by their Spirit which thou boasts to know what ten of us will say before hand their Spirits we deny and thine also with the Papists and the rest which thy filthy mind would compare us to to make us odious that with the rest of thy bundle of light vain frothy talk and stories which thou hast set in thy Book which airie spirit stinks and its words in the nostrills of all sober men as thy long story of a Monk set in a Chaire of carrying a bushel of coals to Newcastle of Hares and Hounds of Apes and coulting language and such filthy stuffe as thou fillest thy Book with might sute a Stage-play more like then a sober Christian all which we turn thee back with the heap of thy confusion which in thy Book is not worth answering Then thou comest to the conclusion as thou sayest and thou exhortest that every one would compare what thou hast writ with the holy Scripture and then judge So say I also that they may see thee a perverter of Scripture and a liar as I have proved thee Another lie thou tellest also that all that thou hast writ against us is either from our own mouths or our own writings when the greatest part of the accusations thou hast gathered out of a bloody persecuting Petition of the Priests of Westmorland which are their lies cast upon us not our words nor writings And the rest are such as with thy Divination thou hast raised out of the bottomlesse pit which with the truth are turned upon thine own head but us they touch not Something more thou makest as though thou couldst say of the evill manners of some of our Teachers but thou forbeatest To which I say they that are blind may believe it is thy moderation but who hath an eye to see how into the depth of Satan thou art gone to drag up all this filth in thy book to cast upon us who are clear of it I say he who well notes this will find cause to be of another mind Thou addest a Postscript to thy Book no lesse full of wickednesse then the rest and that is wherein thou hast perverted my words into a lye who was speaking of the two Seeds the Old Man and the New one born after the flesh the other after the Spirit and because I said that Christ is not born after the flesh but after the Spirit this thou wouldst pervert as though I denied Christ come in the flesh at Jerusalem which some seeing thy murtherous mind at that time did write down the words then spoken and have set to their hands which may shew thy wickednesse and clear the truth as followeth 22d 4th Month 1656. At the Bull Mouth in Martins London JAmes Naylor declaring of the two Seeds the Seed of the Woman and the Seed of the Serpent the light being in the One and the Darknesse in the other in reference to what Jeremy Ives alledged from that Scripture He that walketh not according to this Rule it is because there is no light in him said That Christ was not born after the flesh but after the Spirit That that which was born after the flesh was flesh and that which was born after the Spirit was Spirit and except a man was born of water and the Spirit he cannot see the Kingdome of God Jeremy Ives hearing what was spoken said I have now what I lookt for and afterwards demanded of James Naylor the same thing againe James Naylor said That Christ was not borne after the flesh but after the Spirit and immediately adjoyned For that which is born after the flesh is flesh and that which is born after the Spirit is Spirit And also said that Christ was begotten of the Father and born of the Virgin that he was true flesh and true blood and that he appeared in the likenesse of sinfull flesh but was not sinfull Hest And these words he spake together whereof we are Witnesses George Bishop Richard Greneway Robert Rich. William Wilson Richard Davies Humfrey Wollrich Robert Dring John Clarke AND whereas thou sayest the Scripture makes no such distinction as born after the flesh and after the Spirit read Gal. 4. 29. and thou mayest see that lie contradicted And that be that is born after the flesh is a persecuter of him that is born after the Spirit So it was before Christ suffered at Jerusalem and so it is now Neither was Christ as he was born of Mary born after the flesh but by promise begotten and brought forth though he was true and holy flesh in the likenesse of sinsull flesh but not sinfull flesh being begotten not of sinfull flesh but of the Holy Ghost by the word of the promise which word became flesh but is not after the flesh but how shouldst thou know what he is that came down from Heaven or how he is born who hast denied the faith which is the gift of God Thy earthly faith knowes not the heavenly body whose flesh is the life of all Creatures how it is begotten neither how it is born A Promise thou makest in the latter end of thy Book which here I mind thee of which if thou perform may be profitable to thy soule therefore I am the more willing to put thee on it The Promise is this That if by the words of truth it shall be made manifest that thou hast spoken any untruth thou shalt with readinesse of mind make a publick acknowledgement of it unto the world which if thou perform now that thy lies are clearly laid open there is not much of thy Book that must stand undenied But that Spirit which made the Promise so far before hand whose repentance stands in thy own will will never perform this Promise Thou