one of them that followed Christ and beleeved in him at which the Scribes and Pharisees were offended and sought how they might destroy him but saith the Scripture they feared him because all the people were astonished at his doctrine that is they beleeved it verse 18. another company was those that were the Disciples of Iohn the Baptist and they accompted Iohn a Prophet indeed as all the men of Ierusalem did verse 32. and either of these companies were so great and powerfull as they kept all Christs enemies in awe so that they were affraid of the people of either party and therefore there was then a very City of believers in Ierusalem and they Inhabitants and that in Christs time and they had been baptized by Saint Iohn for all Ierusalem went out and were baptized by him So that now I assure my selfe every but ordinary understanding man will gather that there was an innumerable multitude of believers in Ierusalem and more than could meet in any one place or a few if they had been put together when there were two such potent parties there as either of them kept the very enemies of Christ the Magistrates and Rulers yea Herod himselfe in awe which a few thousands could never have done and all these were Inhabitans of Ierusalem and well known to the Scribes and Pharisees to be Christs and Iohns Disciples and all beleevers as wee shall more abundantly prove in the following discourse and therefore my Minor doth now stand firme That there were more beleevers in Ierusalem and that by the very ministry and baptisme of John then could meet in any one place or a few and that there wâ—â— an infinite number of beleevers and a very City of beleevers which Mr Knollys denyeth and in so doing gives the spirit of God the lys and contradicts the holy Scripture and opposeth all sound reason and all this to maintain the fonde opinion of Independency And this shall serve to have spoke by way of answer to what Mr Knollys had to reply to my first arguments concerning the multitudes baptized by John the Baptist I will now give an answer to what I. S. hath to say against this argument of whom I shall take the liberty by way of preface before I come to my Reply to speak something and yet no more then shall be thought fit and agreeable to sound reason and so much the rather I do it because this man greatly vanteth himselfe and because his answer is highly esteemed of amongst many of the congregationall way who I confesse are much to be blamed that they suffer themselves to be deluded with such fellowes never examining their writings but taking all for oracles they vent and thinking it enough that there is any thing come out against a Presbyterian in way of answer though there be nothing more destructive to their own opinion as I am confident it will appear to all judicious men that these answers of Mr Knollys my Brother Burton and this I. S. are And for I. S. I may say thus much of him that he is yet vainer then Mr Knollys in his answers for he candidly denyeth upon all occasions the Minors of my Syllogismes and then gives some sucking reasons for this his denyall but this I. S. hath nothing of a Scholler in him for all good Schollers and Disputants will set down the arguments of their adversaries in their full strength and as they are in the Copy and then either deny the Major or Minor or both or distinguish and after they have shewen the fallacyes of the arguments if there be any then by their art and learning they will shew the weaknesse of them and so evade the dinte and force of them this I say is the method not onely of all accurate Disputants but of every ordinary jangler if he at least pretends any thing to learning But I. S. hath not so much ingenuity in him as to do any thing of all this but first sets down my arguments in an obscure way and to the halves so that the unlearned Reader cannot perceive the strength of my reason and then in a confused manner gives in his answer in the name of all the Independents which upon due examination I am confident will appear to all learned men to be nothing but a packe of blasphemies and contradictions as being a meer fighting against the truth and a giving of the spirit of God the lye as in the sequell will be evidenced Our Saviour in the 3 of John verse 20. 21. saith That hee that doth the works of darknesse shunns the light but he that doth truth cometh to the light c. Truly I may justly accuse I. S. and his fraternity of this sin that they not only shun the light themselvs but hinder others also from it and do whatsoever in them lies to keep men from the knowledg of the truth and from prying into their errors that by this means they may atttain unto their own ends and therefore they not onely dispâ—rage all the Presbyterians and with their calumnies labour to make them odious to the people as so many railors and persecutors for so they call us that they may neither hear their Sermons nor read any books written by them or any thing penned against their Novelties by those of that party and all this to abuse the simple people that by this their art they may with-hold the truth from them in unrighteousnesse And in this facultie are all the Independents very expert who cunningly either pick and choose or curtalize and adulterate all a guments that are brought against them or else totally passe them over with slightings when they can no way with any reason reply unto them And as they are generally void of all good learning and sciences so there is neither ingenuity candor or honesty amongst the most of them these excellent graces and vertues being now strangers to those of the congregationall way amongst the which fraud and juglings and all manner of dissimulation and railing are the only master pieces of their craft by which they maintain and uphold their way and foment their errors for should they deal fairly with us and not disswade the people from reading our books and hearing our godly and painfull Ministers and would they but set down our arguments and reasons in their full strength the people would not onely speedily see their errors but relinquish them And therfore they all take speciall care to keep the people in ignorance and amongst those Artificers and Crafâ—s-men of that new Goddesse that Diana of Independency this J. S. though in all good learning he be a very novice yet in this craft of jugling he is pretily expert And that all men may see I do not falsly accuse him I will first set down the sum of my arguments taken from the multitudes baptized by Iohn the Baptist and and then set down in what terms he delivers them with his vain and impious answer to them
or sweare fealty to any King who is owned by the people and whole Kingdome to be their lawfull King as appointed and set over them of God and is openly proclamed through the whose Realm to be their King though at that time hee be in an other Countrey and but now comming to take the possession of his Kingdome I say I demand whether such subjects as take the oath of allegeance and sware fealty unto him before he comes and sits visibly upon his Throne be not by this their oath become that Kings subjects as truly and as really as if the King were bodily present I demand further when hee is in person come into his Kingdome and visibly amongst them saluted and entertained and owned by the people for their King whether or no those subjects that then take their oath of allegeance and promise by that their oath their subjection unto him bee not as really and truly his subjects as those that after hee is inaugurated and gone into one of his other Kingdomes take then the oath of allegeance and sware subjection unto him in all his just commands I am confident that all men that are but a little skilled in politicks or any good learning will acknowledge that either of the former subjects are as truly and really subjects unto him though they never saw him as many hundred thousands never did their Kings as those that tooke the oath when hee was gone in triumph into an other of his Kingdomes And thus it was with those that were baptized by Iohn the Baptist that great Officer of Christs kingdome and the blessed Apostle those Stewards Secretaries privie Counsellors Embassadours of his Royaltie who all baptized those that came unto them into Iesus Christ the King and Messiah as well before his death as after and all they owned him as well then for their King as after crying Hosanna thou sonne of David and strowing their garments in the way saying Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord peace in Heaven and glory in the Highest Luke 19. vers 4. and therefore it is a senslesse reason yea contradictory unto it selfe that I. S. bringeth considering there is no difference for the substance of the matter though there be some variety in respect of the circumstance of time and in this fond error of I. S. is my brother Burton and the Papists who thinke there was a great difference between the Baptisme before Christs death and that after his death when indeed for substance there was none no more then was betweene the Sacrament of the Lords Supper before Christs death and after And therefore all those that received either of those Sacraments or both of them before his passion were as good Christians as those that received them after for hee was owned by them at that time to be the Lambe of God that was to take away the sins of the world of beleevers and to be the King of the Iews the Saviour of his people to be the anoynted Christ they took the Sacraments upon it which is as much as the oath of allegeance to any King which were sufficient to make them as good Christians as any that should come after them and therefore they that were baptized by Iohn the Baptist into Christ to dye which I. S. doth acknowledge they were all as good Christians as any now baptized by the Independents and therefore that hee faith to the contrary and in opposition to this truth is a meer babble and a contradiction of himselfe And this shall suffice to have spoke to his first answer to prove that those that were baptized by Iohn the Baptist were as good Christians as any other that were baptized after Christs death His second is as senselesse which is this To say saith he that the Baptisme of Iohn was the same with Christs and the Apostles is flat contrary to the assertion of Iohn himselfe and the Apostles Mat. 21. 25. Act. 18. 25. I baptize you with water saith he but there comes one after me who shall baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire These are the words of his second argument to prove that those that were baptized by Iohn the Baptist were no Christians In the entrance of this his answer he beats the ayre and fights with his owne shadow and falsifies my words for I never said nor thought it that the Baptisme of Iohn was the same with Christs for the Scripture relateth that Christ baptized not at all Iohn 4. vers 2. I said indeed it was the same with the Apostles and that is manifest out of many places of the holy Scriptures as out of the 3. of Luke ver 2. Iohn the 1. v. 33. where Iohn himself speaking saith hee that sent mee to baptize with water the same said unto me c. Yea one of those places quoted by himselfe Matth. 21. vers 25. sufficiently declares that Iohn had his Commission from God himself whose Prophet he was to baptize with water and the Apostles themselves before Christs death and Ascention baptized but with water and had no other Commission but that Saint Iohn the Baptist had and Iohn baptized with the Baptisme of Repentance saying unto the people that they should beleeve on him which should come after him that is on Christ Iesus Act. 19. vers 4. and the very Apostles Baptisme before Christs death vvas no other but the Baptisme of repentance and to beleeve in Christ yea faith and repentance was the summe of all the Preaching both of Iohn and of all the holy Apostles both before Christs death and after as wee may see Acts 20. vers 21. where the Apostle saith Testifying both to the Iewes and also to the Greeks repentance towards God and faith towards our Lord Iesus Christ Now when the Baptisme of Saint Iohn and the Apostles both before Christs death and after was all one for substance and all into Christ as wee may yet further see Acts the 8. 16. where it is said they were baptized in the name of the Lord Iesus It was no error in mee to say that the Baptisme of Iohn was into Christ Iesus and the very same with that of the Apostles for the Holy Ghost which is the spirit of truth hath so taught mee and therefore all those that were baptized by Iohn the Baptist were as good Christians and beleevers as those that were baptized by the Apostles if repentance towards God and faith towards our Lord Iesus Christ and being baptized into him could make good Christians which were blasphemy to gain-say and nothing else but to give the spirit of God the lye and therefore J. S. affirming that there was a difference between the Baptisme of Iohn and that of the Apostles and denying that those that were baptized by Iohn were Christians gives the spirit of God the lye for the holy word of God which was penned by his spirit asserteth the contrary And for that text that he citeth
out of the third of Matthew where Iohn saith I baptize you with water but there comes one after me who shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire this is nothing to his purpose nor nothing against my opinion For as I said before it was never my beliefe that the baptisme of Christ and Iohns baptisme was all one seeing Saint Iohn the Baptist hath taught the contrary as in the words alledged it is sufficiently declared But I demand of I. S. whether the Apostles all whose names were written in heaven were not as good Christians and Beleevers in Jesus Christ by Iohns baptisme before they had received the gifts of the Holy Ghost and were baptized with fire which we read of Act. the 2. as they were after the cloven tongues appeared unto them ver 3. If either he or any of his fraternity shall deny it then they must deny the sixteenth chapter of Matthew and the sixt of Saint Iohn where we finde that honourable confession of all the Apostles where they testifie their faith in Christ into whom they had been baptized before that yea they must deny the whole Scriptures of the New Testament which affirme the contrary And if the baptizing of any with the Holy Ghost and with fire be that thing onely that makes men Christians and Beleevers then none that were not so baptized were good christians for the gifts of the Holy Ghost as the diversity of tongues and working of miracles were not promiscuous and given to all as Saint Paul doth sufficiently declare 1 Cor. 12. 30. Have all the gifts of healing Do all speak with tongues So that all the people were not baptized with the Holy Ghost and therefore by I. S. his learning were no christians Neither was that the worke of the Apostles but it was Christs work onely who first breathed the spirit upon the Apostles and after his ascenâ—ion first poured down those gifts upon them Acts the 2. and after that at many other times through the prayer of the Apostles and putting on of their hands upon the Beleevers Christ for the confirmation of their Ministry and to manifest to all those that were converted by them that they were sent by him shed down those miraculous graces upon many but gave them not to all and it is also declared that they first believed and then they were baptized with the Holy Ghost and wee have but one President that I remember in the holy Scripture that any received the gifts of the Holy Ghost before they were baptized with water and that is those of Cornelius his house but all the rest were baptized with water before And therefore those gifts made them not Christians but declared them to be beleevers and were the effects of their faith which notwithstanding were not conferred by the Apostles but were immediately given by the spirit of Christ So that those visible gifts were not essentiall for the making of any Christians and Beleevers for they were alwayes Beleevers before they received them and if those gifts had been essentiall and absolutely necessary for the making of any Christians then all that had received them should have been saved which they were not besides then many hundred thousands of the primitive Christians should not have been true Beleevers and Christians indeed for all men generally received them not as I proved before and all the Christians for ought I know since the Primitive times and all that now live should be no good Christians for they were not and now are not baptized with the holy Ghost with fire So that al men may see with how little reason this I. S. speaketh in these his argumentaâ—ions and how vain and impious he is in all his cavills this shall suffice to have spoke concerning his second answer And now I come to his third which is as good as the two former His words are these 3. Therefore now saith I. S. by Iohns baptisme they were not all made Christians no more then the body of the Iewes before John were turned Christians by being baptized in the red Sea c. For they were baptized into Christ by their baptisme 1 Cor. 10. 3. I deny not but this baptisme of John was to prepare men for Christ and did beare a more immediate relation to such a worke then any Ordinance before but it did not make them absolute Christians It did not absolve and perfect the new Church I mean not so far as that Ordinance of baptisme was to do afterwards Thus I. S. blasphemeth rather then disputeth For that he saith is impious in the highest degree for it is an apparent giving of the spirit of truth the lye and a confuting of Christ himselfe and Saint Paul and an opposing of the generality of all the Independents as every understanding man will easily gather for the Scripture everywhere and all the orthodox Divines yea and all the Independents that ever I talked with or read of before I. S. and my Brother Burton acknowledge that those that were baptized by the Baptist and Christs Disciples before Christs death were Christians and Beleevers for otherwise they could not have been baptized Notwithstanding I. S. out of his learning denyeth not onely that they were Christians but affirmeth also that those that were baptized by Moses in the red Sea were no Christians whether therefore this be not to beat up the quarters of Iohn the Baptist Christ himselfe and the quarters of Moses the servant of the Lord and of all the Independents and to pull down the very pillars of the holy Scriptures and be not a horrid blasphemy in I. S. I leave to the judgement of the learned Our saviour saith Luk. the 7. v. 29. 30. And all the people that heard him the Publicans justified God being baptized with the baptisme of John but the Pharisees and Lawyers rejected the Councel of God against themselves being not baptized of him Here we have Christs testimony who asserteth that the Lawyers and Pharisees only excepted all that heard Iohn of which innumerable multitudes of them came from Jerusalem for all Ierusalem went out to him did justifie God and did not reject his Councell that is to say they were Believers for the councel of God in the ministry of Saint Iohn to all the people was that they should repent and believe in the Messiah and in token of their faith that they should be baptized now this sweet councell for the obtaining of free grace and favour offered unto them by God in the ministry of Iohn did the Pharisees and Lawyers reject to their own perdition for they would not bring forth fruits meet for repentance that is they would neither believe in the Messiah nor repent nor be baptized and therefore as a company of Infidels and unbeleevers they despised the councell of God and his grace and favour but all the other that heard Iohn saith Christ justified God and did not reject his councell that is they acknowledged that
world as they do mightily extoll one another and upon the praises and commendations of this man many thousands of people should by and by flock after him wheresoever they should hear he preacheth and some one or more of his followers should come unto this minister that so praysed him and say Sir such a man who you so commended in such a place behold he now preacheth and all men come to him and follow his ministry would such a relation I pray as this made unto him that had formerly praised that minister infer that those that told him of such concourses of people as ran after him not only hesitated but wer right down scandalized at him I am confident that upon mature deliberation no rationall creature would make such an inference Neither can I see any ground why either I. S. or any of his associats or any other should so conclude For the Scripture relateth every where that there was fairer agreement and much love and amity between Johns Disciples and Christs and that they knew one another very well and desired to imitate one another so that they did not envy one anothers masters prosperity nor doubted not of one anothers masters ministry nor were scandalized one at anothers masters happinesse And there is very good reason for it For they all knew that John had so honourable an esteem of Christ as he thought himself not worthy to carry his shooes Mat. 3. 11. they knew also how highly Christ had often magnified Iohn proclaiming him to be the greatest prophet that ever was borne of women and how that Christ had commanded John to baptize himselfe so much he honoured his ministry They by their experience likewise knew that their was great correspondency continued amity between their masters and that they justified each others ministry and that before all the people John teaching the people That he was the Messiah and the Lambe of God that was to take away the sins of the world and Christ upon all occasions making mention of John with great praises saying That his ministry was from heaven and that he was his messenger to prepare his way before him So that I say in all these respects and many more that might be specified it followeth that Iohns Disciples neither hesitated nor were scandalized at the true Messiah as I. S. grollishly and wickedly inferreth Besides they knew that at Christs Baptisme Mat. 3. The Holy Ghost discending like a dove lighted upon him and a voice came from Heaven saying this is my beloved sonne in whom I am well pleased So that Iohns Disciples that were dayly with their master and waited upon his ministry which onely preached up the Kingdome of Christ could not doubt much lesse be scandalized at the true Messiah Jesus Christ Again in the 1. of Iohn it is related there that Iohn openly among all the people proclaimed Christ to be the Lambe of God and sayeth that hee knew him so to be by the discending of the spirit from Heaven upon him because that God that sent him to baptize with water said unto him upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit discending and remaining on him the same is hee which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost and I saw saith hee and bare record that this is the Sonne of God And all this was spoke in the hearing of Johns Disciples so that they could not doubt now of the Messias or be scandalized at him for then they should have beene very untaught Schollers which the words following verse 33. shevves they vvere not for two of Iohns Disciples at that time hearing their Master speake these vvords beleeved and follovved Iesus and inquired vvhere he dvvelt vvho inviting them to come and see went with him to his aboad and tarried with him that night and the story and discourse follovving shevves that they vvere so confirmed in their faith and were so far from doubting and being scandalized at the Messiah as they likewise preached him and gained Disciples to him And the same we may say of all Iohns other Disciples that they honoured Christ very much and predicated his fame unto their master upon all occasions as in the 7. of Luke when the rumour of Christ miracles was spred abroad Iohns Disciples were alwayes wont to relate it unto their master Whereupon Iohn at one time calling unto him two of his Disciples sent them unto Jesus saying art thou he that shall come or looke we for another which message was not sent by S. Iohn that either he or his Disciples doubted or hesitated or were scandalized at the true Messiah but that they all also might be as well eye witnesses of his miracles as others and might say another day that they had not onely heard of his fame but that they themselves had seen his wondrous works For John desired by all manner of wayes hee could to publish the Kingdome of the Messias and knew that the more witnesses Christ had and them of knowledge of reputation the more their report and preaching of him would be credited especially when they themselves could say that they had seene him working miracles and that Christ bade them goe and tell Iohn what things they had seene and heard how that the blind see and the lame walke and the Lepers are clensed the deafe heare the dead are raised and the poor receive the Gospel and for this very end did Iohn send two of his Disciples to Christ not that either he or they doubted whether he was the Messias or no but that they might be eye witnesses and relate these things with the more confidence both unto the people and to those that should be pen men of the Holy Scriptures as St. Luke in the 1 chapter v. 2. Even as they delivered them unto us which from the beginning were eye witnesses and Ministers of the Word according to that of Saint Peter Acts the 1. verse 21. Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Iesus went in and out amongst us beginning from the baptisme of Iohn unto the same day hee was taken up from us must one be ordained to be a witnesse with us of his resurrection So that it may well be gathered that Iohn the Baptist had a speciall eye to the future and desired not only in his owne person to preach up Christs Kingdome but that his Disciples after him might relate to their Auditors and to the holy pen-men what they had both heard with their owne eares and seene with their own eyes and so might the better witnesse unto Christ neither will any man deny but that Iohns Disciples might also be much strengthned in their faith in beholding those wonderful miracles of Christ though they no way doubted or hesitated or were scandalized at the Messiasbefore no more then the people in Samaria doubted concerning him Iohn 4. after the woman had said to the men of that Citie Come see a man which told me all things that ever
and in the Baptist as it is at large set downe Matth. 3. and it was ratified by all the blessed Trinity as by the immediate descension of the Spirit of God upon Christ in the likenesse of a Dove who was the person baptized with a voice from God the Father out of Heaven saying this is my beloved Sonne in whom I am well pleased So that Christ God the Father and God the Holy Ghost did sanctifie and confirme this ordinance not only to all those that had beene baptised by Iohn and Christs disciples who were also baptized by Iohn but to all those in all future ages that should be baptized by Christs disciples and all his faithfull Ministers which hee sent into all nations to preach and baptize them Matth. 28. to all which hee promised his presence to the end of the world So that I am most assured all good Christians beleeve that Christ was well baptized and if he was well baptized it cannot be denyed but that all those that were baptized by Iohn and Christs disciples were all likewise well baptized and were all good Christians for both Iohn and the Disciples had their commission from God and Christ himselfe for their so doing and therefore if any authority from Heaven and a speciall command from God and a mission from him be of any force to ratifie and ascertaine any ordinance then the baptisme of Iohn and Christs disciples was authenticke and all those that were baptized by them ought to have beene taken notice of by my brother Burton and all the Independents as formed into a church or churches except they doe indeed beleeve that Christ the King and head of his church with his blessed Apostles and all his seventy Disciples whose names were written in Heaven and all those multitudes of men and women that administred unto him and followed him of whom hee gave this testimony Matth. 12. ver 49 50. Behold my mother and my brethren for whosoever shall doe the will of my father which is in heaven the same is my brother sister and mother except I say they beleeve all these cannot make up a formed Church or churches which were impiety to thinke Now I referre it to the judgement of any well grounded christians whether or no they doe not beleeve that the great Pastor and Shepheard of our soules Christ Iesus with his mother brethren and sisters with all those that heard the voice of this their Shepheard and knew it and therefore followed him and beleeved in him with all Johns Disciples and those that were baptized by his and Christs disciples Ministry cannot as well make up a formed church or churches as any of our new formed congregations with a Pastor and Teacher and a few other of their conceited Members I am fully perswaded that upon due deliberation they will say they can see no good reason but that Christ the chiefe Pastor of his sheepe and so many true beleevers and Saints with him should not all of them as well make up a formed church or churches as ten or twelve in one of our new congregations and therefore that they ought to have beene taken notice of by my brother Burton and those of his Fraternity as formed into a church or churches which notwithstanding they doe not asserting in expresse termes that they take no notice of them as formed into a church or churches which if it be not the highest point of blasphemy and temerity I know not what either blasphemy or rashnesse is in any The Ildependents have unchurcheâ— all the reformed churches and all churches but those of the congregationall way and now they unchurch all those glorious Christians that were baptized by the Baptist and Christs disciples wee saith my brother Burton in the name of them all take no notice of them unlesse formed into a church or churches So that wee may not wonder at least wee may not take it in ill part that they unchurch us and deny our churches here in England and all other reformed churches to bee formed churches after the New Testament forme for they say the same of Christ and all that beleeved in him and that were baptized into him whiles hee was upon earth affirming that they were not formed into a church or churches So that having so good company we may the more quietly sit downe when wee are so like our Master and his Disciples and Followers of all the which they say they take no notice of them as formed into a Church or Churches These words may not slightly be passed over Wee saith my brother Burton take no notice of them unlesse formed into a Church or Churches c. What men ordinarily take no notice of they slight or little regard especially if they speake those words from the judgement of deliberation and not upon extemporary passion or except they be in very great haste and then they may be somewhat excused if they passe by their best friends and take no notice of them otherwise if they speake it out of seriosity that they take no notice of men it is as much as to say they slight them regard them not or despise them But I have a better opinion of my brother Burton though he thinketh very unworthily of me then that hee should slight his best friend Jesus Christ and take no notice of him and his disciples and all the beleevers in Christs time especially when hee pretends That hee onely labours to set him up upon his Throne as King and counts all his dissenting brethren from his wayes enemies of Iesus Christ and his Kingdome I say in this regard I harbour a more favourable and a more charitable opinion of my brother Burton then that upon mature deliberation and serious thoughts he should take no notice of Christ and his Apostles and Followers and of all the faithfull baptized by Iohn and Christs disciples as not formed into a church or churches and yet these are his words we saith he take no notice of them as formed into a Church or Churches I therefore conceive more venerably of him as that it was in his haste when he thus spake and printed for so hee intimateth in his learned Epistle to the Reader therefore saith hee I hasted at length as fast as before I was slow if possible to recover our brother a charitable Gentleman toward a brother though not well advised It seemes here was some tumour began to grow and made him giddy and run like a chicken without a scalpe which needs timely lancing to prevent some inflammation to a head whiles the humor flows in so fast to use some of his own Rhetorick This humour of his made my good brother idle-brained and occasioned him to make more haste then good speed certainly it either perverted his judgment or put him into a lunacy or into one of his odd dreams for otherwise he would have taken notice if not of those multitudes baptized by Iohn and Christs Disciples atleast of Christ
THE UTTER ROUTING of the whole Army of all the INDEPENDENTS SECTARIES with the Totall overthrow of their Hierarchy that New Bable more groundless than that of the Prelates OR INDEPENDENCY not Gods ORDINANCE in which all the frontires of the PRESBYTERY with al the quarters of the same are Defended against all Enemies And all the Forces of the three Generals and Commanders of the Sectaries Hanserde Knollys J. S. Henry B Burton are all dissipated with all their whibling Reserves and the field of Truth still kept viz. That the Presbyterian Government Dependent is Gods Or dinance and not the Presbyterian Government Independent Unto which is annexed an Appendix in way of answer to Henry Burton Clerk one of his quondam fellow sufferers in the which all his ca lumnies are wiped away by the sponge of innocency and the Postscript Vin dicated the honour also of all our renouned Generalls and Commanders is Vindicated the honour of the City of London the honour of our brethren the Scots the honour likewise of all the Presbyters through the Kingdome are Vindicated from the obloquie of all the Independents and Sectaries and their due prayses given unto them in their severall ranks and or ders as next under God to have been the principall and primary Repairers of our breach and the Restorers of our pathes to dwell in the honour of all which the Sectaries wholly and solely ascribe to their Party By JOHN BASTVVICK Captain in the Presbyterian Army Dr in Physick and Phisitian in Ordinary to all the Ill-dependents and Sectaries to sweat them with Arguments twice a year gratis spring and fall who discovering their distempers and malidies finds by the severall symptomes of their diseases that they are very unsound root and branch and therefore ought with their venemous and intolerable Toleration of all Religions to be shunned and avoyded as a company of infected per sons by all such as are sound in the faith Mat. 7. 15. Beware ... but inwardly ... wolves London Printed by John Macock and are to be sold by Michael Spark at the sign of the blue Bible in Green Arbour 1646. TO My dear friend D r Bastwick on the Frontispeice of his Book Intituled The Vtter Routing of all the Independent Army c. TO be a Captain in an holy War Doth well become a man of peace so far As he contending on Gods glory looks Which is the cause maintain'd in all thy books And now in this by Gods great might and power Thou wagest War against high Babels Tower The whole armour of God thou 'st thee upon Thy Loyns are girt with Truth the brest-plate on Of righteousnesse Thou hast thy feet are shod With Gospell-Peace prepared by thy God And above all the shield of faith in t' hand All fiery darts of Satan to withstand T' helmet of salvation the spirits sword Thou fightest with which is Gods holy Word A weapon that all battels will abide March on brave Captain God is on thy side S. B. TO My worthy and learned friend Doctor Bastwick on his book intituled The Vtter Routing of all the Independent Army c. THY former works I 'ave read and truly say They were a means I wandred not astray From Truth to Error But did pry into The new opinions which some say and do Pretend to be according to Christs mind But searching Scripture no such way I find The paths which Independents do walk in Gods Word shew'd me to be a way of sin And not the only way as they depone Christ to advance and set upon his Throne For they thereby Christs seamlesse Coat do rend And precious time in jangling quaeries spend Framing their notions only to make fraction To Christs dishonour and th' increase of faction By their means blasphemies are spred about All sorts of Sectaries the Land throughout Do preach up Error and so bold they grow To threaten such as will not let them fow Their tares amongst them nor let them mislead People from Truth who readily give heed To new opinions ways of Liberty Being pleasing Doctrine to delude them by And to make many follow them because 'T is naturall to reject Gods holy Laws Grief overwhelm'd my heart when I did see Poor souls seduc'd yet men so silent be At length I heard as thou hast heretofore Discover'd Error out of thy rich store Of heavenly wisdome which the Lord gave thee Thou plead'st Truths cause that All her worth may see In this thy Book To th' Presse I therefore went Perus'd so much as gave me such content That whil'st I read my spirits reviv'd again Seeing Error vanquisht and the Truth made plain Unto all men God so assisting Thee That those who read it o're resolv'd may bee Thy Arguments being prov'd by holy Writ None can deny but such who use their wit To wrest the Scripture reason to deride Thereby to gain Proselytes on their side For thou hast laid down Truth so clear I see That sincere souls will blesse the Lord for thee Of all false Doctrines I do now desire Good people to beware and this Book read What satisfaction any can require They will find here who love the Truth indeed Read meditate of God ask wisdome then Truth to discern from all false ways of men S. B. ON The approved transcendent worth of my dear and faithfull friend Dr Bastwick Which the Independents and Sectaries of our times do labour to obscure with their black mouth'd railings false accusings sinfull reproachings self-conceited slightings proud scornings unworthy and unchristian vilifyings of him TO set forth all thy parts Learning and skill It were a work too hard for Homers Quill And Virgils Poem excellent in Verse Would come far short thy vertues to rehearse Were they alive and should it take in hand Thy worth 's above their muse to understand For why in thee divine and heavenly grace To be admir'd do challenge the first place But they such precious graces never learn'd Nor could perceive b'ing sp'rit'ally discern'd To speak thy praises fully they would find A task not easie though both were combin'd To make a Record onely to declare Thy morall vertues eminent and rare As Justice Fortitude Wisdome Charity Temperance Patience Love Humility Thy knowledge They in Tongues might then commend And without doubt their muses would contend Thine Eloquence and Rhet'rick to set forth Yet could they never make known all thy worth Which they would see and so conclude thy praise By setting on thy head a wreath of bayes And yet all this were to eclipse thy glory Thy graces rare transcend so mean a story In morall vertues true Thou Ex'lent art But here 's thy praise thou hast an upright heart To God thy maker hating every sin Thou art a man all glorious within Let Sectaries rail raise Lyes Yet without fear Truth speaks thee one of Gods choyce Jewels dear As having been most faithfull to her cause When men presum'd to make their will their Laws And
Antitode to it in the same place and for farther answer to your meager and slender detractions take notice that I value not what you or any Adversaries can say concerning my tautologies if handling the same thing often be thought a tautologie with you for this is my resolution that wheresoever and as often as I find an adversary hath a tongue to speake against the truth or a pen to write against it were it an hundred times in the same place or in the same page I will God assisting me answer them upon the place I find them and that instant I will never refer the Reader to what I have said before in any other place concerning that point for I for my part think it a kind of lazinesse to spare any paines in so weighty businesses and things of so high concernment as these are yea I think there is but little zeale in that man that shall hear the truth either often blasphemed or spake against that will not as often stand up in defence of it and contend for it according to command Iud. 3. to his uttermost ability yea it would be a means to perswade unstable men that there were some strength in the Arguments of the enemies or that they are more diligent to sow errors tares then I should be diligent to root them out oppose them if I should not as often reply as they cavil and object therfore for my particular it never troubles me what any of youcan say to me about my tautologies which are not vaine repetitions to any that love often to heare the same truth well confirmed for allthis will but witnesse and declare to all men that I am a carefull man to uphold the truth and to resist gain-sayers besides any man may sooner reade a reply many times then turne to an other place where it was formerly spake of and answered to withall there will in a severall answer to the same objection in an other place be found some variety both for argument and language which many times begets other excellent notions which more and more confirmes men in any truth Besides this hath ever beene Gods owne method which they that are taught of him Iohn 6. ought to imitate often to repeate one and the same Law as what he taught his people in Exodus he often reiterates in the same Booke and not in that only but in Leviticus and Numbers and repeats the whole Law againe in Deuteronomy and that often to the end they might remember it the same may be saidof al the holy Prophets through the whole Bible who often reiterate repeat the same things that the people may not pretend ignorance and this I say is Gods own method and therfore worthy of our imitation yea and Christ himself used this method in his preaching and dictating unto his Apostles by his Holy Spirit who writ foure Evangels of what he hath both done and suffered for us often repeating the same thing yea all the holy Apostles and pen men of holy Writ used the same method as is to be seen through the Acts all their holy Epistles repeating the same things according to their several occasions as when either the same errors sprang up in other places or began to increase where they were so wen and started up yea Paul professeth of himselfe Phil. 3. verse 1. that to him it is not grievous but for them safe to write the same things The same method did Saint Peter use as yee may see in his second Epistle and therefore it is no error in me often to repeate the same things and to inculcate and reinforce the same Arguments especially if it be occasioned by your selves that by this meanes the truth for which I contend may be the more confirmed and errors may be the more confuted and overthrown But withall let mee say thus much unto you by the way that although I am constrained through your vaine tautologies often to handle the same truths yet it is with such variety and in so diverse a way manner and stile as it will not bee grievous or tedious to all those that shall reade it with honest hearts where they will well perceive that what I have answered more briefly in one place I have more fully handled in an other that if it be possible I might give full satisfaction to all docible and ingenuous men that will be satisfyed either with Scripture or reasons Now if in this dispute there be any expressions that may displease any of you you of all men may well excuse them knowing how great your provocations of me have beene especially if you consider that all this contention is for the defence of the truth of God which yee all have sought to corrupt and adulterate with your traditions in whose quarrell and for the maintenance of whose honour it becomes every man to be more zealous and fuller of animosity then for his owne and therefore if I take liberty to speake more freely in shewing the vanity impiety and wickednesse of the Deceivers and Impostors of these times in which we live it is but to use the same method the holy Prophets and blessed Apostles have used against the false teachers of their times who have expressed themselves in language equivalent to whatsoever they shall find in any part of my Booke Yea you your selves if you but looke upon my Brother Burtons Vindication or upon any of his Pamphlets or indeed upon any of your own scriblers in maintenance of your owne vaine errors and novelties or upon Iohn Goodwyn your famous Cretensis or the last Vindication that came out against Reverend Master Edwards you shall find them as full of unsavoury expressions as ever people writ against any men withall writing also with such elated spirits and with so course language as is possible for any men to vent themselves withall they ordinarily beginning and continuing their Pamphlets with pride and ending them with cursing as in that late Vindication appeareth where the Author page the first saith I thought it might not be amisse speaking of learned Master Edwards to spend an houre or two upon this vaine man Here wee find the height of pride insolency and disdaine and in the 30. page he hath these words concerning the same man The Lord rebuke turbulent and violent spirits here he ends with cursing causelessely whereas there is no more turbulent and violent spirits now upon the earth then this of that Author and all those of your fraternity as all their practices and noysome fruitlesse and vilipending scriblings can witnesse who daily write against their Christian Brethren for their zeale to the truth with a greater spirit of pride insolency and elation and with more contempt and disdaine and that out of selfe conceitednesse then ever the Prelates did continually slighting under-valuing and contemning those men they are not worthy for any merit or true learning to be compared with or named the same day they
Pentecost was fully come they were all with one accord upon that viz. occasion or designe For this is as much as the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do signifie being taken both adjectively and relatively in that place and therefore under reformation be it spoken it is not rightly translated in our bibles for unlesse we do consider the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with reference to some substantive or some thing going before there can no sense be made of them nor no man mortall can tell the meaning of them no more then any man can divine or judge what one that commeth abruptly into his company and having interchanged no discourse with him doth mean and understand if he should barely say upon this or upon that Now all the contestation is about these words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as for the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we all agree it signifieth with one accord Now the Independents by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 understand in one place which epì tò autò never signified in the world for if we will stand upon the words they have a far other meaning then the Homothumadon brethren give of them as will by and by appear for as for the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 taking it not as a preposition in the Greek tongue as all the learned in that language know it often signifies time and of this I could produce many examples as if one speaking or writing Greek should say such a thing happened in my time or in my dayes he would expresse it by epì and say 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tempore meo or mea aetate it was done in my time So that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may with far better ground and by far far greater reason be interpreted for time in that text then for place in regard there was no mention made of place before but of time for it is in terminis said When the day of Pentecost was fully come they were all together with one accord 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 viz. at that instant of time or upon that very day this interpretation I say doth farre better come up to the sense and meaning of that text then the other in one place for both 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in that text are relatively and adjectively taken as I said before having reference to something going before for otherwise they cannot possibly be understood So that there being mention of time before they are to be interpreted rather of time then place but that is not the true meaning of the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in that text for the true interpretation therefore of them we must have recourse to other places of holy Scripture and primarily to that portion of Scripture from whence these words are taken and that is out of the Septuagints translation upon the second Psalm ver 2. which Saint Luke follows which in the Greek runs thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is rendred by the latin interpreters thus astiterunt reges terrae principes convenerunt in unum adversus dominum adversum Christum ejus In our bibles the words are thus translated The Kings of the earth set themselves and the Rulers take counsell together against the Lord and against his anoynted So that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in that place must necessarily be taken for an evill designe purpose counsell machination or resolution and indeed if we duly consider the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wheresoever we meet with them they do for the most part signifie some designe purpose or resolution whether it be taken in a good sense or a bad as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Psalm is taken for a conspiracy and an evill design of the Kings and Rulers but in the second chapter of the Acts ver 1. it is taken for a good design in the Disciples for when the day of Pentecost was fully come saith the Scripture they were with one accord 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 viz. upon this occasion they were met together with this design purpose and resolution to consecrate the day to Gods service and to celebrate the feast to his name and this is the true and genuine meaning of the place viz. that the disciples were all met together upon the day of Pentecost upon this designe with full purpose and with an unanimous consent and resolution to keep that day and celebrate the feast unto the glory of God and this was a good design and purpose in them which is signified by the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which are not to be understood in one place as the Independents would have it and as it is translated and that it may yet be more evident that by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is signified a design and not in one place very reason and common understanding will make it out and clear to every man if we will compare Scripture with Scripture and in the first place duly consider the words in the 2 Psa where it is said that the Kings of the earth set themselvs and the Rulers took counsel together 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which words there do not imply a convention or meeting together of the persons of all the Kings and Princes in the world in any one place for that they never did nor could do there being an impossibility of it both in respect of time and place no place being able to contain them all so that I say by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there is onely signified a wicked design and purpose or a deliberate counsell and resolution agreed upon and consented unto in all their wicked and rebellious hearts to shake off the sweet yoke of Christ and of casting away from themselves those bands of love and of breaking those cords of his affection towards them For whereas God the father had appointed Christ to be King over the Nations to govern them by the Scepter of his Spirit and by the Rod of his Word they all conspired with one accord to resist his spirituall government over their souls and would not have him to rule over them And therefore the holy Ghost expresses this their conspiracy wicked design and evil purpose by the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which intimate as much as if the spirit of God had said this was the design resolution and the determinate counsell of all those wicked Kings and Rulers to reject the government of Christ over them not meaning or understanding there by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that they in all their persons ever either came together or could meet in any one place So that by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there is meant a design onely and not a meeting of all the persons of all Rulers and Kings in one place The same expression we find Acts 4. ver 26 27. where it is said That Herod Pontius Pilate with the Gentiles and people of Israel were gathered together 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which expression is borrowed out of the second Psalme the
Councell and the people were to make a new choyse For my own particular I will speake my conscience in this point and leave it to the judgement of all intelligible and wise men such as love their Religion and Countrey I see no reason that any Sectary whatsoever whether Independent Antinomian Anabaptist Seeker c. or any Fugitives that have ran over into Holland or New-England to set up new Churches there should be suffered to sit in the Great Councill of the Kingdome which without doubt will with al their ability and power labour to maintaine their severall factions all which tend to the ruineâ—of this State and Kingdom and to the destruction of all our liberties and therefore I conceive they are as dangerous as ever the Papists were yea the tenents of many of them are more destructive to all Government then ever those of the Iesuits were or the most inveterate Papist that ever yet put pen to paper and if the Papists were not suffered to sit in Parliament I shall ever beleeve it will not consist with the safety of the Land that any Sectary what ever should sit in the great Councell especially it being daily perceived that all the Sectaries through the land have their incouragement from some of them to doe mischiefe every where but if the people through the Kingdom will not humbly perition the Parliament that all such with all Minors and Novices should be put out of the Parliament it being proclamed by God himselfe as a curse to that people who have children for their Princes Isa 3. whether they be children in respect of years or discretion then it is a sad presage of that kingdoms and countries ruin where the people are not only divided amongst themselves but their councels also which they are through the whole land in all their Committees by reason of these Sectaries and Independents on all sides who are the only fomenters of factions and divisions and by this meanes have got all the wealth and riches of the Land into their own hands with most of the strength with the ruine and miseries of many The Lord open the eyes of all the people that they may timely see into their danger and petition the Great Councell that all the Sectaries may be removed out ofall offices and Committees and places of trust through the Kingdome But if any of them shall brag of any service done for the State it is well knowne they were not the only Actors in that imployment but ten to one better Christians then themselves did the worke though they have got all the honour from them and have beene ever well paid for it when the other wanted their monies and therefore they having bin so well regarded already above others they may hold their peace and be latisfied for it is well knowne that not one of a thousand of them before the warres begun was worth any thing yet now they are knowne to be very rich and wealthy when such as were borne to great estates and were as serviceable to the Parliament and faithfuller to it with fewer selfe ends then they have beene are many of them destitute of Livelyhood and many more of them by the calumnies and lyes of the Independents and Sectaries are now in disgrace and all their service is forgotten all the which things besides the dangerousnesse of these mens Doctrines should teach all men to avoid and shun both their teachings and teachers and complices and abetters This I thought fit out of my love to my countrey and out of my desire of all mens salvation to speake If my words shall find any esteeme or any shall for sake the errors of their new wayes by seeing the truth I shall rejoyce and count my selfe happy but if men resolve to persist in their erroneous opinions and by-paths of ignorance I will say with the Apostle 1 Cor. 14. 38. He that is ignorant let him be ignorant still THE Vtter Routing of the whole Army of all the INDEPENDENTS and Sectaries with the totall overthrow of their Hirarchy that new Babell more groundlesse than that of the Prelates THe Apostle Saint Paul in the fourth of the Ephesians exhorting all Christians to walk worthy of the Vocation whereunto they were called and to behave themselves as beseemed Brethren wisheth them with all lowlinesse and meeknesse with long suffering and patience to bear one with another in love And useth a forceable Argument to move them to brotherly kindnesse Because saith he there is but one body and one spirit and one hope of Salvation We all worship one God we are all consecrated to him with one Baptisme and we all hope for one and the self-same glory Therefore as there is but one Lord one faith one Baptisme so be yee also of one minde live in love and keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of Peace If ever there was need of this exhortation there is now singular use of it especially in this distracted Nation wherein we live For the division of a Kingdom is the ruine of it the division of a family destroys it the division between brethren brings a confusion amongst them It hath ever bin observed That diversity of judgment opinion hath made a difference in affection The difference between the Iews and the Samaritans in points of Religion made the Disciples desire That fire might come down from heaven to end that controversie The difference between us and the Papists and the diversity of opinions between us made them because they could not bring down fire from heaven fetch it out of hell to blow up the Parliament and because that had not the desired effect and the diversity of opinion stil remaining makes the difference of their affection from us so great that nothing can expiate their indignation against us but the utter internetion and destruction of us all and this and this only next unto our own sins is the cause of all those fatall calamities this miserable kingdome is now imbroyled with And therefore all care and diligence among brethren should be used to get a right understanding one of another and to move them to bear one with another and ever to call to minde the saying of Abraham to Lot Gen. 13. Let not us contend together for we are brethren I am most assured if there were a right understanding of the differences that are now among brethren there could not be such bitter expressions one against another and such alienation of affection as is now too frequent and too well known to the common enemy We are commanded If it be possible as much as lies in us to be in in peace with all men Rom. 12. 18. And the fruits of discord are set down in the 5 th of the Galathians verse 15. If saith the Apostle ye bite and devoure one another take heede yee be not consumed one with another and in the 20. verse Hatred saith the Apostle varience emulation strife heresies c. and
word of God teacheth us So that to any intelligible Christian there can be no doubt or scruple any longer left about this point For that which God himselfe hath dictated by his holy spirit and recorded in his holy word we may not gainsay but God hath dictated by his holy spirit and recorded it in his holy word that the multitude that was converted and believed upon that new miracle and preaching of Peter Iohn was about five thousand men Ergo it is not to be gainsaid but to be beleeved and received as an everlasting truth by all Christians For as I said before this was a new effect or a new act and distinct and different from the former and therefore these five thousand are to be considered by themselves and apart Now five thousand and three thousand put and joyned together make up eight thousand which were all added to the Church to all the former that were converted by the Ministery of Iohn the Baptist Christ and his Disciples in Christs life time and therefore there is no mistake in my addition as Mr. Knollys fondly and childishly concludes and his reasons by which he would prove my mistake are as vaine and senselesse For saith he some of the three thousand may be were women and how can the Doctor say there were eight thousand new converts besides women Take notice I pray of the vanity of his expression Some of the three thousand saith he may be were women and it may be they were not and it standeth with as good reason they were not as any he can bring to prove they were although I did not set it down as my own opinion but said onely That it was the judgement of many learned men that all those eight thousand that were converted by those two miracles and Sermons were men and not women and children and therefore Mr Knollys here commits a double errour first in making that my opinion and ascribing that to me which I onely then related as the judgement of others and then left it in medio that is his first error his second is worse for whereas the Holy Scripture saith that there were three thousand soules added unto the Church by the first Miracle and Sermon and five thousand by the second in the fourth of the Acts Master Knollys peremptorily affirmeth they were but five thousand in all so gives the Spirit of God the lye who declares there were three thousand at one time five at another added to the Church But if there were but 5. thousand in all as M. Knollys asserteth then by his own acknowledgement they were all men and not women and so then I had committed no error neither can M. Knollys convince me of an error if I had said it as my own opinion that al those that were converted by those two Miracles had been all men and not women and children For for the five thousand the word of God saith they were all men and not women the words are these in the Originall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the number of men according to Master Knollys his owne interpretation was five thousand and if there were five thousand men then not women And wee find in the Holy Scripture that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is alwayes taken for men as we may see it Matth. 15. verse 38. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and they that did eat were foure thousandmen besides women and children So that amongst these five thousand by the testimony of the holy Scripture and in the judgement of Master Knollys by his owne interpretation they were all men and no women now then if all the whole number of Beleevers that were converted by those two Miracles and Sermons mounted in all but to five thousand as Master Knollys affirmeth they did not and were all men as hee accordeth to what purpose then doth hee rayse a new and needlesse cavill against mee because I said that it was the opinion of many learned men that those that were converted by these two miracles and sermons were all men and not women and children For I did not as I said before relate it as my owne judgement neither did I say there were no women amongst those eight thousand but that it was the opinion of the learned that they were all men only and not women and children But were I of as contentious a spirit as Master Knollys and that it tended to edification I could bring better reasons to prove they were men only and not women then either he or any of his Fraternity can produce to the contrary But Mr. Knollys himself seemeth but faintly to assert that there were any of them Women and Children for he saith it may be some of the 3. thousand were women thus he trifles in his answer to my first Argument saying it may be there were no more Beleevers in Ierusalem at the Feast of Pentecost but the hundred and twenty names Now all the learned know that to say it may bee there were some women makes no reall conviction of a mistake it is but a naked and groundlesse supposition of a mistake especially when there may be many solid reasons produced to prove they were all men and no women and children And therefore such kind of triflings are not sufferable in any that pretend to fear God for vain janglings and needlesse contentions about words is that that is condemned by the Apostle in all Ministers in his Epistles to Timothy and Titus and it troubles me not a little that I have to do with such vaine kind of creatures whose cheese bable is about words But notwithstanding I see a providence in it for in this the man shewes but his ignorance and whiles he would perswade the Reader that he is very acute he shewes himselfe to be a very child in the art of disputation There is an old saying give some men rope enough and they will hang themselves Even so it is here with Master Knollys whiles he takes that liberty to himself to run out in his discourse he intangles himself on every side as by the sequell will appeare as here He sayd that there was no mention in any Scripture quoted by me of eight thousand and he denyed withall that the Scripture doth prove any such thing and asserted moreover that the whole number of all those converts amouted but to five thousand and he said that all these were men and not women and yet here he confutes himself I desire all therfore to take notice of the vanity of the man He had confidently concluded there were but five thousand in all and asserted that they were all men and notwithstanding as it were in the same breath he makes mention of three thousand more of another company amongst the which he sayth some of them might be women So that by his own concession here is two distinct numbers or companies one consisting of 5. thousand
and all men and no women and another consisting of three thousand more of which he makes a scruple saying that amongst them there might be some women So that if the five thousand were all men and there was yet another company of three thousand more besides amongst which there might be some women as Master Knollys saith then this three thousand was a distinct company from the former now three thousand amongst the which there might be some women and five thousand all men makes up full eight thousand so that Master Knollys by his whibling againe and againe Volens nolens confirmes my assertion that the full number of those converts by these two miracles Sermons was eight thousand and for ought any thing can be said to the contrary they were all men besides women and children and this is all he gaines by his fond caviling and contention to prove himselfe a very jangler and one like that wicked servant that condemns himself by his own mouth And this shall suffice to have spake for proofe of the number viz that there were eight thousand besides women and children And now I come to his second reason by which he labours to evince and prove they were not converts beleevers which I hope to make appeare to be not only groundlesse but to be most impious and wicked as giving the Spirit of God the lye and indeede destructive to their own tenents and principles His words are these These five thousand saith he are onely called men and not converts not believers for howbeit many of them hearing the word believed yet it is not said the five thousand men beleeved And the truth is the text well considered only holds forth that the number of men was made up five thousand Thus Master Knollys For my owne particular I stand astonished at the vanity senslesnes and wickednesse of the man for his words are not only against the light of reason and the judgement of all the learned and the very opinion of the Independents themselves who hold that they were all converts and beleeves but they are contradictory to the Spirit of God giving the holy Ghost the lye as I said before for the Scripture saith notwithstanding all the resistance and opposition made by the enemies of the Gospell to hinder the work of the Ministry and notwithstanding all the persecution that was raysed against them for this very end I say notwithstanding all their indeavour the holy Ghhst saith that many of them which heard the word believed and the number of men was five thousand Here are two truths evidently laid downe contrary to Master Knollys his errors The first is that they are not only called men but beleevers for saith the Scripture they that heard the word believed Secondly the number of those that believed is there in terminis set downe to be five thousand and the number of the men viz. that believed saith the text was five thousand So that from this testimony of Scripture and from all my arguments deduced from thence these two conclusions do follow evidently The first that Master Knollys is a very wicked man that thus at pleasure can give the Spirit of God the lye and oppose the truth it selfe upon all occasions The second that there were more believers in the Church of Ierusalem then could possibly all meete in any one place and congregation to partake in all acts of worship and that in its very infancy for here we read of eight thousand more cnoverts besids women and children for the Scripture maketh mention of no women nor children newly added to all those that were converted by Iohn the Baptist and by the ministry of Christ and his Disciples in Christs life time and all they were innumerable for all Jerusalem went out unto them and were baptised besides the many other thousands that the Scripture recordeth were daily added to these all which I say could not possibly meete in one congregation to edification And the truth of these conclusions I am most assured will appeare so cleare in the judgement of all the learned as they wil gather that Mr. Knollys his complices that thus sottishly oppose it ought severely to be punished for these their wicked practices who for the upholding of their own errors and for their base lucre and gain for worldly ends care not what they say or do to the disturbance of church State for the seducing of the poor people and hindring of the work of reformation so much to be desired But before I passe on to Master Knoylls his other Cavills I shall desire the reader a little to consider what I have yet in this place to say to him These five thousand saith he are called men and not converts not believers for howbeit many of them hearing the Word believed yet it is not said the five thousand men believed And the truth is the text well considered only holds forth that the number of men was made up 5. thousand From hence I gather if these words of his may be credited that it may be a very well formed Church after the new testament forme for this Church at Ierusalem was such an one by the confession of all the Independents although they be not all visible Saints but many of them unbeleevers Iewes and Infidels and be not true converts and that for the moulding up of a true Church after the new testament forme it is not absolutely necessary that they should be all visible Saints for here Master Knollys says they were mixt good and bad together it is not said saith he the five thousand men believed and yet they were all members so that by his doctrine some of them were unbelievers and notwithstanding they were all moulded up into a Church body so that they were not all visible Saints and yet the true Saints and believers made no separation from the other but they all continued together in Church fellowship both Saints and infidels and communicated in all Ordinances Now whether or no Master Knollys by this doctrine of his doth not fight against the opinion of all his brethren and utterly overthrow all the new fabricke of Independency I leave it not onely to the judgement of the learned of the congregationall way if there be any such but to the censure of the seven new churches of which he is one of the pastours and an other Saint Diotrephes who if they do not punish him for this his Grollery I will say they deserve censure and punishment themselves But this is not all I have here to say to Mr Knollys I have this also to adde that if any credit may be given to his words there will then be no certainty in any thing the Scripture relateth unto us For he saith That those five thousand that were added to the Church are called men and not Converts and Beleevers and howbeit many of them believed yet it is not said the five thousand believed So that if he may
seriously and without partiality weigh all things And for the evincing of that I will begin with Abraham the Father of all the faithfull who saith Gen. 18. ver 27. Behold now I have taken upon me to speake unto the Lord which am but dust and ashes Here we see Abraham had no high thoughâ—s of himselfe nor of his own righteousnesse which example of his was left to all his children in succeeding ages to teach them to esteeme meanly of themselves and not pharisaically to boast of their owne holinesse Jacob likewise in 32. of Genesis ver 9 10. speaking unto the Lord saith O God of my Father Abraham and God of my Father Isaac c. I am not worthy of any the least of the mercyes and of the truth which thou hast shewed unto thy servant c. Here likewise we see what a low esteem he had of himselfe The same we finde in Ezra the 9. ver 6. who in the name of all the people said O my God I am ashamed and blush to lift up my face to thee my God for our iniquities are increased over our heads and our trespasse or guiltinesse is grown up to the heavens c. And so in the ninth of Nehemiah ver 1. c. The children of Israel were assembled with fasting and with sackclothes and with earth upon them they were all in a posture of humility as the whole Chapter declareth Job also that righteous and upright man in the 42. chapter ver 6. saith Wherefore I abhorre my selfe and repent in dust and ashes He had no bigg thoughts of himselfe and his own holinesse The same we see in Isaiah that great and holy Prophet who in the 64. chapter ver 6. in the name of all the people of God in his age he saith But we are all as an uncleane thing and all our righteousnesses as filthy raggs and we all do â—ade as a leafe and our iniquities like the wind have taken us away c. They had no proud conceipts of their own righteousnesse nor vaunted not of their holinesse and sanctity Neither was Daniel in any other posture though a man greatly beloved of the Lord chapter 10. ver 11. Yet he in the 9. chapter in the name of all the people humbly prostrated himself Seeking unto the Lord by prayer and supplication with fasting and sackcloth and ashes Saying O Lord the great and dreadfull God c. We have sinned and have committed iniquity and have done wickedly and have rebelled ver 3 4 5 c. And so we might run through all the Old Testament and finde all the Prophets and holy men of God ever confessing their own vilenesse and never boasting of their own righteousness The Publican also and the Prodigall had learned this lesson the one of which said Luke 15. ver 19. I am not worthy to be called thy sonne the other standing afar of Luke 18. ver 13. would not so much as lift up his eyes unto Heaven but smote upon his brest saying God be mercyfull unto me a sinner All the faithful and truly holy people and godly party both under the Old and New Covenant had learned this lesson of self-denyall and Paul acknowledged himselfe the greatest of all sinners crying out of himselfe Rom. 7 O miserable man that I am who shall deliver me from this body of death They had no overtowring conceipts or thoughts of their own holinesse and righteousnesse nor never boasted themselves that they were the onely holy people and the generation of the Just That was the practice of the Justiciaries yea of the hypocrites and wicked under the Law and of the Pharisees in the time of Christ as we may see in Isaiah 65. ver 5. who said Stand by thy self come not neer to me for I am holier then thou c. The Pharisee also stood and prayed thus with himself God I thank thee that I am not as other men are extortioners unjust adulterers or even as this Publican I fast twice a week and I give tythes of all that I possesse c. By which it may evidently appear that those that boast themselves of their own righteousnesse and holinesse treade not in the steps of father Abraham and all the truly holy Prophets and people of God in all ages but in this their so doing they deviate from â—heir example and imitate the example of the wicked Pharisees and old Justiciaries and therefore are justly to be blamed and found fault with as transgressors against both the precept of God and example of Christ who said Learn of me for I am humble and meek Mat. 11. against the President of all the faithful w ch is the second part of my Minor which is to prove That God did ever condemn such as justified themselves and boasted of their own righteousnesse as is manifest from that place in Isaiah above quoted in the 65. chap. ver 5. where the Lord saith that such as gloryed they were more holy then others were as smoke in his nose and fire that burneth all the day And in the 16 of Luke ver 15. He said unto the Pharisees Ye are they which justifie your selves before men but God knowes your hearts for that which is highly esteemed amongst men is abomination in the sight of God And in the 18. of Luke the place above cited ver 9. He in a Parable reproved certain which trusted in themselves as being righteous and despised others And told them plainly ver 14. That the Publican that meanly esteemed of himselfe went down to his house justified rather then the other For every one saith Christ that exalteth himselfe shall be abased and he that humbleth himselfe shall be exalted Yea it is the command of Christ Matth. 16 to all such as will be his Disciples ver 24. That they should deny themselves and take up their Crosse dayly and follow him Now self-denyall and boasting of their own holinesse cannot stand together for Saint Peter in his first Epistle chap. 5. commands all Christians to be subject one to another and to be clothed with humâ—lity saying That God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble Humble your selves therefore saith he under the mighty hand of God that he may exalt you in due time The same lesson doth Saint James teach us chap. 4. v. 6. And if we look through the whole Scriptures we shal find That God looketh unto those onely that are of a poor and contrite spirit and that tremble at his word Isaiah 66. ver 2. The same also the Lord saith Isaiah the 57. v. 15. Thus saith the Lord the high and holy One that inhabiteth eternity whose Name is holy I will dwell in the high and holy place with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit to revive the spirit of the humble and to revive the heart of the contrite ones David had learned this lesson also who in the 51. P salme saith A broken and a contrite heart O Lord thou wilt
not despise But for all such as pharisaically boast themselves of their own righteousnesse God will despise and resist especially when they come far short of the Pharisees righteousnesse who fasted ordinarily twice or thrice a week and gave tythes of all they had and were very bountifull and charitable to the poor and did many other things praise worthy whereas all the Il-dependents are so far from giving tythes of all they have as they would not willingly that any other should give them writing books to the contrary and that bitter ones and for the many other acts of holinesse in the Pharisees as fasting deeds of charity the world knows they are not so frequent in them towards their poor brethren that dissent from them but in running from sea to land and from one place to another to make Proselytes and seduce the people they are very like the Pharisees and in boasting and glorying of their own righteousnesse in this they â—qualise if not exceed the Pharisees and Justiciaries of old and if they repent not God will have a controversie against them for God resists the proud and will give grace unto the humble and in the 30 of the Proverbs ver 72. God saith there That there is a generation pure in their own eyes and yet they are not purged from their filthynesse Gods people were ever humble but the Il-dependents are not as will by and by appeare in the sequell The third part now to be proved viz. That the Il-dependents do both falsly and pharisaically boast themselves when they call themselves the pretious and holy servants of God c. Now that they boast and glory of their own holinesse and that they are the onely people and the godly party all that are acquainted with their language and have heard their Sermons and have seen their books can bear witnesse with me of the truth of that I now charge them with neither can the Il-dependents themselves deny it And that they falsly glory and boast of their own righteousnesse holinesse and sanctity is my taske now to prove which by the grace of God I will do running through all and every severall branch of their gloriations And to begin with the first when they call themselves the onely pretious servants of God and the godly party in this their glorying I say they as falsly as Pharisaically boast which will evidently appear if we duly examine who in Gods dialect are a holy people and the onely holy servants of God In the 1 of the Corinthians chap. 7. ver 34. The Apostle there describes who are the holy people they saith he are such as care not for the things of the world but for the things of the Lord how they may be holy in body and spirit They were such as being bought with a price studyed how they might glorifie God in their bodyes and in their spirits which were the Lords 1 Cor. 6. ver 20. And how they might cleanse themselves from all filthynesse of the flesh and spirit perfecting holinesle in the fear of God 2 Cor. 7. ver 1. The holy servants of the Lord are such as present their bodies a living sacrifice holy acceptable unto God as their reasonable service and that from the consideration of Gods great mercyes unto them Rom. 12. ver 1. They pressed toward the mark to the high calling of God in Jesus Christ Phil. 3. 14. Whose conversation was in Heaven ver 20. Those Saints minded not earthly things but being contented with food and rayment they esteemed godlinesse the greatest gain 1 Tim. 4. Gold and silver saith Peter I have none Acts 3. He studied onely to be holy and regarded not the world The life of all the godly and holy party was above in heaven according to that of Solomon Prov. 10. They were not groveling upon the earth nor regarded not the things of this life they were changed from that they were before they were now no longer conformable to this world but they were transformed by the renewing of their mind that they might prove what is that good that acceptable will of God Rom. 12. ver 2. According to that of Paul Eph. 23. 24. They were renewed in the spirit of their mind they had put on the new man which after God is created in righteousnesse and true holinesse Yea they were renewed in knowledge after the Image of him that created them Coloss 3. ver 10. In a word all the truly holy and godly party have an universall change wrought in them their understandings witts and affections are changed they are all heavenly the whole frame of their lives and conversations are changed they are all heavenly so that they by all their actions declare they are such as really minde nothing but heavenly things they are mortified men they seeke not great things nor they intangle not themselves with earthly businesses they onely mind heavenly things where Christ sitteth at the right hand of God Coloss 1 2 3. No sooner was Levi called from the receipt of custome but hee relinquished and left the world and followed Christ The same did Zacheus distributing that hee had liberally to the poore and manifesting to the world by giving full satisfaction to all men that could say they were damnified by him that now hee minded nothing but heavenly things the things of the Lord how he might be holy in body and spirit which were the Lords and this was the practise of all the holy servants of God in all ages they were heavenly minded lowly humble meeke they were of one mind having compassion one of an other they loved as brethren they were pittifull and courteous they rendred not evill for evill or rayling for rayling but contrariwise blessing knowing that they were thereunto called that they should inherit a blessing they refrayned their tongues from evill and their lips spake no guile they eschewed evill and did good they sought peace and ensued it 1 Pet. 3. verse 8 9 10 11. they loved without dissimulation they abhorred that which was evill and cleaved to that which was good in honour they preferred one an other Romans 12. verse 9. in Lowlinesse of mind they esteemed of others better then themselves Phil. 2. ver 2. 3. they wete all heavenly minded men who regarded no worldly things neither doe we ever reade in all the sacred Scriptures that any of the holy Prophets or Saints of old were taken up with the world or aspired to the Honours and Dignities of the same but chose rather to suffer affliction with the people of God then to injoy the pleasures of sinne for a while yea they esteemed the reproach of Christ greater riches then all the treasures of Egypt they chose rather to wander about in deserts in sheeps skins and goats skins naked despised and contemned in the caves and dens of the beasts of the earth then to dwell in the greatest affluency of worldly things they slighted all the world and all the Glory of it
their duty and according to the will of God Therefore when the Il-dependents pray for a Toleration of all Religions under the name of liberty of conscience and labour for it and hinder with all their power the setting up of the onely true Religion and worke of Reformation and the setting up of such a Government in Christs Kingdome which is his Church as he hath revealed in his blessed will and they have also covenanted to bring in in their so doing they neither pray that Gods name may be hallowed nor that his Kingdome may come nor that his will may be done nor that they may not be led into temptation and be delivered from evill and therefore they pray not aright and are not as they falsly boast themselves the only true praying people for they pray not according to Gods will Now when those Churches of the Congregationall way consist of such kinde of praying Members it is apparently manifest they are a mixt Generation of men and not the Generation of the just nor the men of Gods right hand which is another title they falsly and pharisaically also claime and challeng unto themselves as they did the former as will by and by appear upon due examination and discussion of the true sense of that expression For those that are the men and people of Gods right hand properly so called are such as with all their might stand up in defence of Gods true Religion and earnestly contend for the faith once delivered unto the Saints Jude 2 3. and are not onely ever ready to lay down their lives for that ancient faith but with all their power to fight for it to the last drop of their blood in opposition to all errours superstition heresies and all manner of false worship and in opposing whatsoever is against the power of godlinesse as a Toleration of all Religions is which tends only to the bringing in of all prophanenesse and irreligion Now the Il-independents deny that they did ever fight for Religion Yea I my selfe have heard many of them say That it is unlawful to fight for Religion and they professed that when they went out with the sword in their hands they fought onely for the liberty of their consciences and for a Toleration of Religion which is a part and branch as they said of the Subjects birth-right All this I can with many more depose and therefore they falsly arrogate unto themselves that title of being the men of Gods right hand which no more belongs unto them then the other ensignes and titles did And as little right have they to the title of Saints and the generation of the Just which is so frequently in their mouthes if wee bring them to the true touchstone of that mettle therefore it may be to very good purpose to turne to the 15. Psalme and briefly to run over that where we shall finde a true description of Saints indeed Who saith the Psalmist shall abide in thy Tabernacle and who shall dwell in thy holy hill that is to say who are Saints indeed and the generation of the Just For answer the Holy Ghost that best knew who were Saints indeed sets down the characters of true Saints The first of which is his upright walking He that walketh uprightly saith the spirit of God This is a metaphoricall expression signifying the trade of a mans life his custome and carryage in it as when a man is said to walk after the flesh it is as much in the dialect of holy Scripture as to say He goeth on in his naturall condition and in his irregenerate state in his ignorance blindenesse wicked courses and practises and hath no work of grace wrought in his heart nor any chang in his will and affections nor in his whole frame of life and carriage but he is the old man still Rom. 18. ver 1. So to walk uprightly in Scripture language is to walk after the spirit to be regenerate to be a holy and heavenly minded man who doth all the actions of one borne again of the water and of the spirit he makes the Law of God his delight and squares his life and actions according to that rule and the direction of his blessed word and he orders his life by that rule in all integrity sincerity and without hypocrisie or any base or by-ends or wordly respects He makes it his employment with Enoch and Noah to walk with God secretly as well as openly in all manner of conversation in his thoughts words and deeds as if he were ever in the sight and presence of God walking uprightly also towards men carrying himselfe justly towards all but especially his main aime is to indeavour that the true worship and service of God may be set up in his family and wheresoever he hath power hee declines not to the right hand nor to the left in matters of Religion but keeps himselfe strictly to the rule and goes right on according to the direction of that He halts not between two Religions or more for he knowes how much that is disspleasing unto God who said unto the people by his Prophet Why halt ye between two Religions That God cannot indure in any people no more then he can indure the lukewarme Laodiceans that are neither hot nor cold but indifferent what Religion be set up so they may injoy their case all such he knows God hath and will spew out of his mouth Such therefore as halt and limp in Religion and hop first on this side to this Religion and then on the other side to that other Religion and a little after limp into another opinion and soon after hop into another Sect all that walk thus are no Saints in Gods dialect For the true Saints indeed they walk up â—ghtly before God in that one Religion he hath appointed they turne not to the right hand nor to the left they take no by-way or crosse path in Religion they halt not nor limp not nor doubt not of their way neither do they sit still or make a stand nor set not a foot backward in Religion all which were not to walk uprightly before God but all the true Saints walk uprightly they go on with constancy without interruption in their Religion that way Jerem. 6. They are not carryed sometimes this way with this wind of doctrine and sometime that way with that blast of opinion but they walk right on they set not a step backward from their first love to Religion like the Church of Ephesus Revel 2. but passe forward toward the price and mark of their high calling with as great a zeal and fervency as at first and hate all false wayes and erroneous religions they persevere in all the wayes of God and in the footsteps of all the Saints of old and imitate all those vertues and graces that are commendable in the Saints and all the Churches They cannot indure that any doctrine of Baalam Jezabell or of the Nicolaitans should be connived
wee might never looke for happy dayes nay it can be proved that some of the Independent Ministers have made it part of their imployment to run from one place to an other to preach their errors and in their Sermons to bring the Gentry and Nobility into the hatred of the people accusing them as the cause of all our calamities publickly declaming against them as the basest Gentry and Nobility in the world saying in expresse words that howsoever Noble-mens Mothers were knowne yet their Fathers were Grooms or some base fellows that they were nothing but drosse dresse drosse and this they have spake in great and crowded Assemblies all the which speeches if they tend not to make the Nobility hatefull to the people and so by consequence to the ruine and overthrow of them in time I know not what can and whether all this bee not to doe evill to their neighbours I leave it to the judgement of others and how many of the Independents have vilified the great Councell let their bookes be examined and they will say I wrong them not in any thing when I affirm they labour to bring in a confusion of all things yea their words daily at the very Parliament dore can witnesse that howsoever they pretend to honour the Parliament yet they do accuse them of arbitrary and tyrannicall Government and assert that the Lawyers in the Parliament have betrayed the Liberties of the subject and this is their daily language and that it may bee the better knowne it is all extant in their printed Books by all which they do evill to their neighbours Now then if I in my just defence made use of their owne expressions to set downe the wickednesse of their wayes and to discover their bad intentions there was no just cause why any rationall man should condemne mee for it for ridentem dicere verum quid vetat Now that the Independents have so severely censured mee causelessely for this they shew they are altogether partiall and very unjust Judges and whiles they doe the greatest evill unto men that can possibly by the malice of men be done unto them which no true Saints doe for they doe no evill to their neighbours as the Spirit of God saith yet they will condemne others for but making use truly of such expressions as they themselves have falsely and causelessely used against others for I in discribing of them and their proceedings exprest my selfe but in their owne dialect and yet they fill the whole Kingdom with clamours against mee for being but their scholler The time was when I writ my Letany for to make my self and my fellow Prisoners merry in our bands that when many grave men liked it in private yet disswaded mee from making of it publick that those that are now the great Sticklers of the Independent party against all the counsell of my grave friends perswaded me to print it protesting that they thought it would doe the Prelates more mischiefe then any booke that was seriously penned against them and therefore intreated mee by all meanes that I would publish it yea they offered mee to set it forth upon their owne charges and costs and through their importunity they prevayled with mee to give them the copie and it was printed and liked so wel of by that party as they commended mee with all the prayses men could extoll and magnifie a man with as can be proved and they have often profest unto mee that they thought it was the best way of dealing with any enemies of the Church and therefore I conceive that Martin useth so much of this method in his books But indeed there have bin many and grave Divines that have writ many merry and pleasant books against the Prelates in all ages nations which have discovered their vanities more then any thing that was seriously writ by which meanes many personages of eminent quality as well as those of low degree have come to the knowledge of the wickednesse of the Papall Hierarchy which had they beene seriously penned no man would have regarded yea the holy Prophets and divine Pen-men have made themselves merry with the vanity of the false Prophets and great men of their time many presidents of the which might be produced out of sacred writ so that there is no sinne in writing pleasantly against any such as goe about to seduce and mislead the people and alienate them from their duty towards God and their obedience to those that are in authority and from their duty and love to their brethren all which are capitall evils and which no true Saints will perpetrate Now I say in this that the Independents did so well like of my Letany and the merry passages in that booke and are so highly offended at my mirth in my just defence against them that are equally guilty with those they most mortally hate and in that they so harshly accuse those expressions in my booke which I have but borrowed from them saying that none that useth such can have a dramme of grace in them in all this they are very partiall and unjust Judges and give unrighteous judgement against their neighbour which is to doe evill to their neighbour which all true Saints will not doe and they may remember that the Lord in the 29. of of Isaiah condemned such as made a man an offender for a word But of all these things in their due place When I upon an other occasion shall answer to the moderate checks wherin I shall make it appeare had those expressions beene mine owne there had beene no blasphemy in them without it be esteemed blasphemy with them to compare a company of rude and rebellious wicked people to a good creature of God when as the Holy Ghost compareth such to a Dog returning to his vomit and to a Sow wallowing in the mire withall I shall then make it evident that the conspiracy of Corah Dathan and Abiram was not greater against Moses and Aaron then this confederacy of the Ill-dependents at that time against some of the honourable Members of the Parliament But letting passe their partiality in many other things towards their owne party in whom they can see no sinne I will goe on to the other characters of true Saints indeed as they are set downe by the Spirit of God the third of which in this verse is that they receive not a reproach against their neighbors The true Saints saith the Holy Ghost take not up a reproach against their neighbours they will neither heare much lesse entertain or receive an evill reproach or calumny against their neighbours for they have learned better things out of Gods holy word as in Exodus 23. verse 1. where the Lord speaking to his owne people and all true Saints saith Thou shalt not receive or rayse a false report put not thou thy hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witnesse Neither is there any thing more forbidden through the whole Scripture then whispering
possessions and goods and parted them to all men as every man had need and that they continued daily with one accord in the Temple and that they brake bread from house to house and did eate their meat with Gladnesse and singlenesse of heart Thus the Holy Ghost describeth those three thousand converts unto us as not onely skilfull in the theory of church-fellowship but also exceedingly well verst in the practicall part of it whether therefore in this particular also in that J. S. saith it is suspicious that the three thousand converted at once were not so soone instructed in Church fellowship as converted when the Scripture reporteth the contrary it be not to give the Spirit of God the lye I leave it to the judgement of all the godly and impartiall Râ—aders who I am confident will give their verdict against I. S. For certainly there is no act of church fellowship that was omitted by them and although I love not such as will groundlessly be suspicious as I. S. is here and those of his Fraternity yet I am confident the Independnnts will never be induced to imitate the example of those three thousand and I have very good reason to make mee continue in this beliefe for what I already know in their daily practises and therefore they are rather to be suspected that they are not well instructed in church fellowship they make notwithstanding so great a noys about therefore whether this be not a great temerity in these men thus upon all occasions not onely to censure their christian brethren that live harmelessely by them but to suspect all those that were converted by the Baptist and the Apostles themselves before Christs death yea and to suspect even those three thousand also that were converted by Peter after Christs ascension and to adjudge both Pastors and people to bee all ignorant what church government and church fellowship was I leave it likewise to the judgement of the prudent advised Reader And yet this is the daily practise of al the Ill dependents thus to speake of them all as if they had not learned their lesson as well as the congregationall Predicants and their disciples and knew not how to cast them into a church mold after the New Testament forme and to instruct them concerning church fellowship when not withstanding it is recorded of those Ministers that they revealed the whole counsell of God and whatsoever was needfull to be knowne or practised by all christians to the end of the world Acts the 20. and therefore could bee ignorant of nothing that tended to edification and the building up of beleevers in their most holy faith But yet notwithstanding I. S. and his brethren are still full of suspicions and yet never satisfied in any thing that can be produced out of the holy Scripture to confute their erroneous novelties for although I had sufficiently confirmed my first proposition and proved by both Scripture and reasons that all those that were baptized by John and Christs Disciples were good Christians and true Believers and that there were many Congregations of Beleevers in the Church at Jerusalem yet I. S. page 11. sayes He is not satisfied by any thing that hath been alledged by me that the Church of Ierusalem consisted of many Congregations and Assemblies and that upon the scruples before instanced And Mr Knollys in his 11. page affirmeth the same So that it is certain these men are resolved never to be satisfied though things be never so evidently proved unto them And it is no wonder that there is at this day such a brood of creatures in the world for there has ever been a generation of such men in all ages that will never be satisfied Christ the great Doctor of his Church with all his blessed Apostles and faithfull Ministers could never satisfie the Jewes but they ever resisted his spirit Acts 7. Neither can the holy Scriptures now satisfie all gainsayers but they will still be doubting amongst the which Sir I. S. and Saint Hanserdo with many of their fraternity may well be numbred But for all such Christians as whom the god of this world hath not blinded their eyes that they should not see the glorious light of the Gospel of truth I am confident they will be satisfied that I have sufficiently proved that there were many Congregations and several Assemblies of beleevers in the Church of Ierusalem from that satisfaction they will learn to abhor the errors of all the sectaries and straglers of our times and to decline shun their company and fellowship And for all such as they are that will receive the good seed of the word into good and honest hearts I desire ever to satisfie them and not those that are resolved to be ever scepticall and ever learning yet never attaining or coming to knowledge or at least withhold the truth from others in unrighteousnesse And for all such I shall not much study to give them satisfaction as being a company of unreasonable men from whom we ought daily to pray to be delivered for all such the Lord hath given over to strong delusions that they should beleeve a lye because they received not the love of the truth that they may be saved 2 Thess 2. Notwithstanding I say I have very little hope ever to satisfie any such and therefore may be thought to go about an impossible worke if I should indeavour it yet that all men may sâ—e my fairer dealing with I. S. because he saith that he hath not been satisfied with any thing alledged by me that the Church of Jerusalem consisted of many Congregations and Assemblies I will therefore adde a few reasons more or at least call some of the former briefly to his minde which I am most assured if there were no other in the whole book would perswade any rationall man that there were many Assemblies and Congregations of beleevers in the Church of Jerusalem which if they cannot yet satisfie him I am confident they will satisfie and content others And to the reasons I shall produce I will also adde some testimonies of those of his own party for his farther satisfaction or conviction at least All such as have read I. S. his learned works know that he hath not only cut of all those that were baptized by Iohn and Christs Disciples before Christs passion and ascension from the Church of Ierusalem but razed them out of the Kalender and Roule of the Saints absolutely denying them so much as the very name of Christians all this I say those that have read his scruples very well know They know likewise that he granteth there were three thousand converted by the first Miracle and Sermon of Saint Peter though he uncharitably saith That it is suspicious that they were not so soon instructed in Church fellowship as converted So that here by his own confession we have a very ample Congregation consisting of three thousand and six score persons And in the same
as hee was President in that Councell in the 15. of the Acts and it stands with very good reason for many yeares after he continued still the prime man in authority there amongst the Presbyters and knew very well the condition of all the Beleevers there and what numbers and multitudes of Disciples there were Inhabitants in that Church all which sufficiently demonstrateth that hee had his residence continually or for the most part in Ierusalem so that Paul comming thither to the Feast as it is related Acts the 21 chapter was informed by him not onely that there were many ten thousands of Beleevers in that Church but what those Disciples had heard concerning his preaching which sheweth not onely that Saint Iames had his aboad in that Citie but that those beleevers likewise were dwellers and inhabitants there and that now hee had very good acquaintance and familiarity with them yea which is more at that very time that Paul and Barnabas were sent to Jerusalem with those almes Peter and Iames were then in that Citie if not other of the Apostles also as the twelfe chapter of the Acts abundantly sheweth and without doubt they all joyned with the Presbyters and in a Common-councell ordered how the Alms should be disposed of by the Deacons to the necessity of the Saints yea it doth most necessarily follow what so ever Mr. Knollys and those of his Fraternity shall be able to say to the contrary for the Scripture recordeth that the reliefe was sent to the Presbyters through Iudaea Ierusalem was the Metropolis citie in Iudaea and in the 12. chapter v. 25. it is related that Barnabas Paul returned from Jerusalem whither they had carried the almes so that many of the Apostles being at that time in Ierusalem and the princiall and chiefe Presbyters in that Church amongst the other Presbyters it may not bee credited that they I say being the prime Magistrates and Governours did sit still and leave the rule ordering and government of that Church to other of their fellow Presbyters and them of inferiour ranke but they also acted their parts in the government at that time as well as at others and therefore I say when the disposing of the treasury of the Church or State is an Act of soveraigne power and belongs only to those that are in authority in either and when all the Apostles and Presbyters governed that Church by a Common-councell and joynt consent and when the almes were sent unto all it necessarily followeth notwithstanding all Master Knollys his garrulity that my Argument out of that Scripture will ever stand good to prove that the sending of the reliefe to the Elders makes good these two things the first that the Presbyters were the onely men in authority there and secondly that the Apostles and Presbyters of that Church governed and ruled it by a Common-councell and Presbytery yea Master Knollys his owne words confirmes mee in my opinion who saith it is not denyed by the brethren that the Presbyters in all Churches were the men in the government of the Churches in which they are Elders so that all businesses of publicke concernment were to bee transacted and managed by the common consent and agreement of them all and not by the determination of any one particular Presbyter in either of those Churches much lesse by any other persons or people in them but the Presbyters And this shall suffice to have spake concerning the confirmation of my first Argument grounded upon that Scripture that the reliefe and almes were sent unto the Presbyters of Ierusalem And now I come to what he hath to say against my second argument by which I proved my third proposition which is this as he himselfe set it down in the 12. Page of his book They that in the holy Scripture are called Presbyters and acted and ordered things in a joynt body and common Councell with the Presbyters and exercised that ordinary power committed to them in the 18. of Matthew they acted as Presbyters But the Apostles in governing the Church of Ierusalem consisting of many Congregations and Assemblies acted and ordered things in a joynt body and common Councell with the Presbytery of that Church as Presbyters Ergo the church of Ierusalem was Presbyterially governed and by a common Councell of Presbyters The Major and Minor of this Syllogisme being proved saith the Doctor the conclusion will necessarily insue Thus Master Knollys relates this Argument wholly passing by all the rest And to this argument he first thus replies I know not saith he that the brethren ever deny ed that the Church of Ierusalem was presbyterianly governed So that he assenteth unto the conclusion which is all I contended for by that argument So that by this it followeth that the people had no hand in the government for they are not Presbyters by office And yet such is his ambition to be thought some body in the art of disputation that he quarrels the forme of my Syllogisme and takes upon him to shew me how I should have framed it aright but all those that know indeed what really belongs to learning will easily perceive the man doth but babble and if I should spend time in trifling with him about forms moodes and figures in Syllogisms who knows no more in Logick then the horse he preaches on I might be thought as vain as himselfe therefore intreating him hereafter to learn his Grand-dame to suck and not mee to make Syllogisms passing by all those his grolleries I will set down what he hath farther to reply to this argument in the 13. page and then answer to that and after I have done with him I will come to I. S. that learned Gentleman and profound Clerk Master Knollys to this argument thus farther answereth Though the Apostles saith he were called Presbyters in the Scripture yet it followeth not that they acted as Presbyters but as Apostles Act. 15. And they cannot therein be a pattern and president for Presbyters First because the Apostles had the care and charge of and over all Churches 2 Cor. 11. 28. But the Presbyters had the care and oversight of some one Church onely as Ephesus Act. 20. 28. or Philippi Phil. 1. 1. and this the Doctor often inserts in his book That all the Churches we read of in the New Testament though they were presbyterially governed were Dependent upon their severall Presbyters page 12. And secondly because this would make the Presbyters Independent indeed for so the Apostles were in the government of all the Churches the Presbyters of Jerusalem of Ephesus and of all the Churches were Dependent upon the Apostles and the Apostles only Dependent on Christ by whose holy spirit they were alwaies guided in the government of their churches and therefore they said Acts 15. 28. It seemed good to the holy Ghost and us And though the Doctor say the Presbyters might say so as well as the Apostles because the Elders and Presbyters are mentioned there The
Doctor might have also considered that the brethren even the whole Church the multitude how many soever the Doctor can make of them were present as well as the Presbyters Acts 15. 4. 12. 22. 23 25 27 28. and so have made the brethren the multitude even the whole Church Independent also and the Doctor might as well have affirmed that the brethren even the whole Church might say it seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us Thus Master Knollys pleaseth his own humour in heaping up a senselesse and confused multitude of words and that onely to delude the people But should I make a full discovery of all the errours of this his babble and nonsense and give a full answer to them truly I might make a very large discourse I will therefore study brevity and answer him in a few words though I will omit nothing worthy to be taken notice of But by the way I may say thus much that this his answer is nothing to the purpose and his reasons are as vain frivilous and fond as by the sequell will appear But whereas he denyeth that the Apostles though they be called Presbyters acted as Presbyters and that they cannot therein be a pattern and president for Presbyters it is a meer begging the question and a fond trifling in a serious and weighty matter when it was sufficiently proved and that out of the holy Scripture that the blessed Apostles were not onely called Presbyters but that they were Presbyters really as well as virtually which the Independents themselves deny not and that they acted also as Presbyters at Jerusalem that is as ordinary rulers and officers in all acts of government as also in that Councell in the 15. of the Acts for otherwise their example could not indeed have been a pattern of government to all Ministers and Presbytes in all succeeding ages if in either of them they had acted as extraordinary men by a transcendent and superlative power and by an inimitable authority and as men immediately assisted by the holy Ghost as when they wrought Miracles and when they writ the holy Scripture Now that the Apostles in all those acts of government were and are to be a pattern to all Ministers in the ages to come all the learnedst of the Independent tribe and all their brethren of New England do acknowledge it and take the ordination of Deacons and Elders in their new Churches from the example of the Apostles in the sixth of the Acts and the fourteenth chapter of the same book and they acknowledge and accord that Synods and Councells in like manner are one of Gods Ordinances and ground it upon the Apostles and Presbyters meeting in the 15. of the Acts and take their example for a pattern and president of gathering into Synods and Councells upon the like occasions all which they could not do if the Apostles in all those acts of Government had acted and managed them onely as Apostles and in an extraordinary way with a transcendent and infallible authority and by a speciall dispensation from heaven and as only peculiar unto themselves as miraculous and extraordinary governours So that whiles Master Knollys fights against the truth and against mee he with the same weapon wounds his own cause and overthrows the Independents doctrine who from the examples of the Apostles though extraordinary men take their ordination of Deacons and Elders and of calling Synods And therefore in the first place this may serve for the discovering of his ignorance and futility As for his reasons of his denyall that the Apostles cannot be a paterne and president for Presbyters because the Apostles as he saith had the care of all churches and the Presbyters were limited and confined to their particular charges they are foolish and vain and make nothing for the enervating or weakning of my argument for it doth not follow as the learned well know that because the Apostles in some respects were extraordinary men and rulers therefore in all acts of Government they did nothing ordinary or for the imitation of other Church governours I say this can never follow with any good reason neither will any judicious man thus argue because the Apostles were extraordinary men and officers therefore they did not the acts of ordinary governours whereas when they assembled themselves about the affaires of the Church and for the good of it it was for this very end and purpose that they might leave an example and president to the ages to come and to all Ministers that should succeed them of doing the like and therefore we are ever to consider the Apostles in all acts of government to have acted as ordinary governours and rulers and for a president and pattern to all Ministers to the end of the world But whereas Master Knollys grollishly saith that the Apostles were Independent in the Government of all the Churches and that the Presbyters of Jerusalem and Ephesus and all the Churches were Dependent upon the Apostles and the Apostles onely Dependent upon Christ by whose spirit they were alwayes guided in the government of their Churches and therefore they said Acts 15. 28. It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us In every sentence I might say word there is an error For first the Apostles were not Independent at all no more then the Presbyters but they were ever tyed unto the word of God and his revealed will and that by Christ himself who said John 5. search the Scriptures and Luke 14. They have Moses and the Prophets let them hear them Yea Saint Peter 2 Epist chap. 1. v. 19. teacheth us That we have a more sure word of prophecy whereunto we do well to take heed c. So that the Apostles themselves were tyed to the Scriptures And Paul the great Apostle of the Gentiles in the 24. of the Acts and in many other places makes the Law and the Prophets the rule of his faith professing that he beleeved all things according to them So that when Peter swarved from that rule began amongst the Galatians to halt temporize Paul resisted him to his face and accused him openly of prevarication Nay which is more so far they were from being independents that they were alwayes to follow the guidance of the spirit they were not to move but as he directed Act. 16. Yea the Apostles themselves were subject to the Presbytery at Ierusalem and were to give an account of their actions to them at any time as we may see Acts 11. where Peter was questioned and was forced to give in his answer for satisfaction the other Apostles also were subject unto that Presbyterie and gave an account how they had spent their time amongst the Gentiles yea Paul himselfe received orders from the Presbyterie in Ierusalem Acts 21. and was ruled by them yea they were not onely subject to the Church in Ierusalem but to all other Churches also and were sent on their message at any time For Peter and John were
Apostles and not as Members for that present of the Presbytery of Antioch now all men know that they that are sent as Messengers by command and appointment as they were were not greater then those that sent them which is one of the reasons all orthodox Divines use against Peters Supremacy in that the Apostles which were in Ierusalem Acts 8. 14. sent him and Iohn to Samaria and therefore they conclude that the Colledge of Apostles had authority over him and that they were not subject to him And the same may be concluded concerning Paul and Barnabas that they were subject to the command of the Church And it is yet more evident out of the second verse of the 15 chapter of the Acts Where it is said that when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissention disputation with them that then they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Ierusalem unto the Apostles and Elders about this question out of the which words every one may observe these conclusions following First that Paul and Barnabas used not any transcendent extraordinary and Apostolicall authority in that Church neither did they challenge unto themselves an infallible authority for the deciding of that difference which they might have done if they had then and there acted as Apostles and put forth their Apostolicall power yea which is more it is in terminis said that Paul and Barnabas had no small dissention and disputation with them intimating by those words that they argued and debated the matter by Reasons and Arguments as the other ordinary Presbyters of that Church did which they would never have suffered if they had acted there as Apostles and with an infallible authority and this is the first conclusion may be gathered out of those words to prove that Paul Barnabas acted there as ordinary Presbyters and were not onely at that time subject to that Church but Members of the same The second conclusion that may be gathered out of those words is this That they were sent as the other ordinary officers and the same commands laid upon them that were laid upon the other Now if they of Antioch had looked upon Paul and Barnabas as extraordinary Messengers indued with Apostolicall authority they would have made some difference between them and the certain others spake of in that place but sending them all with equall authority and with one and the same Message and making no distinction between them it sufficiently proveth that they of Antioch in this imploiment lookt upon them but as ordinary Presbyters The third thing observable is this that Paul and Barnabas with those certain others were sent as well to the Elders or Presbyters at Ierusalem about the question as to the Apostles for so runs the text they were all sent unto as having equal authority and as the ordinary Governours and Councellours of the Church and as to such as sat by one and the same Commission Writ or Charter and governed with a joynt consent and by a Common Councel and Agreement And therefore they are all to be considered as ordinary Presbyters in that Councel and Synod and all this I say may be gathered out of that text But there are many other Arguments to prove it because the Presbyters all of them and that all along through the whole debate acted as authoritatively as the Apostles For as the Presbyters were sent unto as well as the Apostles and assembled themselves accordingly v. 6. So they did decree and write the Epistle as well as the Apostles ver 22. 23. and Act. 16. 4. they are called also the decrees of the Apostles and Elders and Act. 21. the Presbyters say Wee have written and concluded manifesting unto all the World that they in that Synod sat and acted by the same authority and were assisted and guided by the same spirit the Apostles were as sitting by the same Commission or Writ And therefore when the holy Ghost makes no difference between them in respect of their authority but only in regard of their names it is a very great rashnesse in Mr Knollys and those of his fraternity to say that the Apostles acted not as Presbyters which is indeed to confute the Scripture and all this to delude the poore people Many Arguments more might be produced to prove that the Apostles acted as Presbyters and were no more then guided by an Apostolicall and infallible spirit then the other Presbyters but for brevity sake I shall only name one more which is this in that they stated the question and debated it from the holy Scripture in the ordinary way disputing Con and Pro arguing and reasoning what they should write and what they should judge of that busines as it is apparent in the 7. verse and many more places in that Chapter by their deliberate suffrages and discourses in that Councell and having by searching the Scripture saith the Holy Ghost found what was the good and acceptable will of God thereupon they say it seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us as any Synod or Councell of Divines upon the like assurance of Scripture warrant may doe Now I affirme had the Apostles at that time acted by an apostolicall and infallible Spirit a when they writ the holy Scripture and not as Presbyters they would never have admitted any disputation nor entred into a serious debate and consultation what they should write and judge of that matter but would speedily have dispatched the busines and by their Apostolicall authority and that infallible Spirit they were led with they would have decided the matter and either have said thus saith the Lord as the Prophets of old did or take notice that what wee write are the commands of the Lord dictated unto us by the Spirit of God and would never have gone to consult with others about it or debated the matter by Arguments and reasons which when they did it is a sufficient Argument to prove that the Apostles acted as Presbyters in that Councel and therfore from all that I have now said it is apparently evident that all the Apostles at Ierusalem acted as Presbyters and that the other Presbyters had equall authority and power with them notwithstanding all Master Knollys his bable And this shall suffice to have spake by way of answer to that part of his fond cavill and now I come to reply to his Grolleries concerning the votes and suffrage of the people in the Church at Ierusalem whom Master Knollys joyneth with the Apostles and Elders and makes them equall with the Elders in authority misconceiving what is meant by brethren there his words are these page 13. The Doctor saith hee might have also considered that the Brethren even the whole Church the multitude how many soever the Doctor can make of them were present as well as the Presbyters Act. 15. 4. 12. 22 23. 25. 27 28. and so have made the Brethren the multitude even the whole Church independent also
a pattern of imitation to bind all Churches to the end of the world which both Master Knollys and my brother Burton learnedly inferre but as far as it makes for the advantage of the Presbyterian opinion and to shew that the Presbyters have the sole authority of admitting Members into Church fellowship from the example of Philip Ananias Paul in baptizing the Goaler and Lydia and Peters baptizing of Cornelius and admitting of him and those that were with him Members into Church communion by their sole authority without those conditions they propound and without the consent of the people then they cry out that they are extraordinary examples or meer extravagants Now whether this be not with the Papists to make the Word of God a nose of wax or a leaden rule that they may either work and mould it or bend it into what fashion they please I leave it to the judgement of the learned and experienced Christian But by the way also I desire the Reader to take notice what my brother Burton granteth viz. that the receiving of those Gentiles and the admitting of them by Peter into the Church by Baptism was to make them one Church with the beleeving Jews these are his own words From which it is sufficiently apparent that be men baptized and admitted into the Church either after an ordinary way or after an extraordinary it is sufficient to incorporate them into Church-fellowship both with the beleeving Jew and Gentile and to make them Members of Christs Church which is as much as I contend for So that it is most certain as those that are Members of any particular Church are by vertue of that Members also of the whole Catholique visible Church so in like manner those that are made Members of the Catholique visible Church may also by vertue of that be Members of any particular church for the Church of Christ is his Kingdome and it is but one Flock and one Sheepfold and there is but one Shepherd of it and King that governs it and therefore in whatsoever part of this Kingdome of Jesus Christ they are admitted Members and after what manner soever they be admitted whether in an ordinary or an extraordinary way they are Members of the whole Church and may communicate in all ordinances with any particular Church whatsoever as being subjects of Christs Kingdome and injoying all the immunities and priviledges that any of Christs subjects can challenge And all this I learn from my brother Burtons doctrine who so long as he holdeth out any truth unto me I will listen unto as he hath done in this point but no farther Again as all those viz. the Eunuch Paul Cornelius Lydia and the Goaler were admitted to be Members of Christs Church by the sole authority of the Ministers Evangelists and Apostles and without any of those conditions urged by the brethren so are all other Christians by the sole authority of the Presbyters to be admitted into church-fellowship and that upon Christs own conditions viz. Faith Repentance and Baptism Having upon the occasion of my brother Burtons and Hanserdoes words spake thus much I will now come to my Answer to them both And first whereas they peremptorily affirme from the interrogation of Peter to those that came along with him where he saith Can any man forbid water that these men should not be baptized c. that it doth imply that the brethren have power also of admitting Members into the church and ought to have their voices as in the receiving of them in so in the casting of them out It is a meer non sequitur and a very groundlesse illation and inference for the interrogation plainly manifests the contrary as will appear from other presidents and reason as for example in the eighth of the Romans ver 33. 34. Saint Paul saith Who shall lay any thing to the charge of Gods Elect Who is he that condemneth who shall separate us from the love of Christ All the which interrogations do not imply as the Apostle himselfe answereth that any creature can lay any thing to the charge of Gods Elect or that any creature can condemn or that any creature can separate the Elect from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus Another instance to omit many we have of the same nature with that of Peter Acts 8. 35. Where the Eunuch said unto Philip See here is water what doth hinder me to be baptized I demand of any whether or no this interrogation of his doth not imply as much as if he had said no creature now can hinder me from Baptism seeing that we have water that element that is appointed for it and I do beleeve And so much may be gathered from Philips Answer to him who saith nothing could hinder his baptism and admission into the Church if he did beleeve in Christ with all his heart whereupon the Eunuch answered I beleeve that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and he was forthwith baptized So that by this it is sufficiently manifest that that inference they would gather from Peters words cannot groundedly be made viz. that it is in the power of the people to hinder any as is yet more evident from Peters own words and reasons when he was questioned about this businesse in the 11. of the Acts the story whereof is there set down at large with Peters Answer to all their Objections Who told them ver 12. that the spirit bad him go with those that came from Cornelius nothing doubting c. saying in the conclusion of his discourse and that with an irresistible reason ver 17. For as much then as God gave them the like gifts as he did unto us who beleeved in the Lord Jesus Christ what was I that I could withstand God All the which discourse of Peter and this his reason do sufficiently prove that his interrogation saying Can any man forbid water that these should not be baptiâ—ed Doth not imply as my Brother Burton and Master Knollys would have it that it was in the power of those that were with Peter or any other to have hindred their baptism and admission into the church of Christ seeing they beleeved For if Peter himselfe should have refused it he had been disobedient to God himselfe and had doubted which he was forbidden and withall had resisted in as much as had been in him the spirit of God For so saith Saint Peter What was I that I could withstand God From which I gather and that by very good reason that all those of the congregationall way that will not admit all such as beleeve and are baptized into their new gathered churches without they walk some time with them and without the making of a publike confession of their faith and the bringing in of their evidences of their conversion and entring into a particular explicite covenant and without the consent of the whole church are all fighters against God and withstanders of his spirit And if they do