Secondlie he speaketh of the fourth daies or Wednesdaies fast to be appointed by the tradition of the Apostles which yet neuerthelesse the Romish Church doth not obserue Thirdlie that the Pente cosse or fiftie daies by the tradition of Apostles are exempted from the Fridaie fast which tradition is not kept in the Popes Church except you will saie that Pentecost is taken for whitson weeke and then the custome of the PopishChurch is directlie contrarie to the tradition of the Apostles for Wednesdaie and Fridaie that weeke are 〈◊〉 daies And as for the Wednesdaie fast as well as the Fridaie Epiphanius is so earnest that he addeth further Deinde verò st non de eodem argumento quartarum Prosabbatorum ijdem Apostoli in constitutione dixissent etiamaliter vndique demonstrare possemus Attamen de hoc exactè scribunt Assumpsit autem ecclesta in toto mundo assensus factus est c. And moreouer if the same Apostles in their constitutions had not spoken of the same argument of wednesdaies Fridaies we could otherwise throughly make proofe of it But they write exactly ofit and the Church hath taken it vp assent hath bin geuen in al the world You see he alledgeth not onely a decree of the Apostles but also the consent of all the world for the wednesdaie fast as well as the Fridaie fast So that if the Apostles tradition beside the scripture be necessarie for lent whie is it not also for wednesdaies fast And if wednesdaies faste is not necessarie no more is lent fast Further you affirme that Dionystus and Tertullian saie that praiers and oblations for the dead are traditions of the Apostles De Eccles. hier c. 7. de corona milit but Dionystus al beit we do not acknowledge him for a man of such antiquitie as the papists would obtrude him yet hath not any mention of traditions of the Apostles in that Chap ter touching praier for the dead but either of tradition in scripture orels at large endeuoring to prooue that he saith by scripture Tertullian in the place quoted speaketh onelie of oblations for the dead in that yearelie day which maie signifie thanksgiuing as pro nataliliis for their birth doth in in the verie same clause Not denying yet but Tertullian when he forsooke the Church and became a Montanist yealed to praier for the dead as a thing reuealed by the spirit aud new prophecie of Montanus Last of all you saie Saint Basill teacheth that the consecration of the fant before baptisme the exorcisme vpon those that are to be baptized their anointing with holie chrisme and diuerse like thinges are deliuered to vs by prescript of Christ and his Apostles lib. de spi. 5. cap. 27. Of consecration or blessing of the water to the holie vse of baptisme of those that are to be baptized there neede no tradition to be alledged the scripture is sufficient in the institution of baptisme whereby both the water and the perfon are dedicated to God aud his holie worke of regeneration The anointing with chrisme seemeth at the first to haue beene the signe of the giftes of the holie Ghost which were wont to be graunted with baptisme which though it had beene vfed by the Apostles in baptisme yet that particular grace being ceased which to signifie it was vsed it hath no longer anie profitable vse in the Church As for exorcisme vpon those that are to be baptized Is is your owne addition for Saint Basill hath it not But where you saie he hath diuers like thinges as deliuered by traditian it is verie true and among them this sor example that it is necessarie for the children of the Church to praie standing on the Lords daie But this necessitie euen in the popish Church is notacknowledged therefore whatsoeuer he saieth is a tradition of the Apostles is necessarieto be kept of all Christians although all the Church in his time beleeued it as that which Epiphanius reporteth of the wednesdaies fast before spoken of You demaund vpon what ground you shall discredit or reiect these traditions deliuered by such fathers cheife Doctors and pillers of the Church Euen by the same ground that you giue ouer other traditions deliuered by the same persones either because they are not true traditions or els because they are not necessarie for the Church albelt they were deliuered as no doubt some ceremoniall matters were euen by the Apostles them selues Your other reasons are friuolous That they were neerer the Apostles then we For the neerest and moste immediat successours to the Apostles Policarpus and Anicetus could not agree vpon the tradition of the Apostles one of them building vpon Iohn the other vpon Peter as is testified by Eusebius out of Irenaeus in the place before cited An other reason is that they were honest men and would not deceiue vs willinglie And so much we acknowledge yet might they be deceiued in ascribing the common practise of their time to Apostolike tradition and so deceiue vs vnwittinglie nor be controlled because the custome generall acceptation of that ceremonie restreined men Which things considered it is a great iniquitie as Master Charke saieth to adde traditions to the written word of God as if of it selfe it were not sufficient to instruct the Church in all thinges necessarie to saluation That which followeth of Doctor Fulkes handling the olde Fathers about traditions is answered by himselfe in his confutation of popish quarrells from pag. 55. to pag 61. After this you cite foure seuer all Doctors in defence of traditions vnwritten whereunto as some of auncient writers were too much inclined so haue you not so sure ground out of them for your popish traditions as you purpose And to beginne with Basill who by Apostolike traditiō defendeth the custome of the Church which was to sing Glorie be to the Father and to the sonne with the holie Ghost whereas the heretikes would haue it in the holie Ghost and cauilled that the other forme was not in the scriptures Saint Basil mainteineth it as agreeable to the scriptures by authoritie of auncient tradition although it were not expressed in so manie wordes in the scriptures as manie other thinges are which haue like force vnto pietie with those that are dilinered in expresse wordes as for example he alledgeth the confession of the faith in the 〈◊〉 which no man doubteth to be sufficientlie tanght in the scriptures although the verie wordes of our creed are not expressed in such for me As we rehearse our creede I omit 〈◊〉 things saieth he the verie confession of faith in which we beleeue in the father the sonne the holie Ghost in what scripture haue we it Againe And if they doe reiect the manner of glorifying of god as not written let them bring forth demonstration in writing of the confession of faith of other things that we rehearse By which it is manifest that the traditions he speaketh of are of two sortes the one
by them which haue the holie ghost in them-selues For when they remit or retaine the spirit which dwelleth in them remitteth or retaineth by them And that shal be by them as I thinke by two meanes first by baptisme and then by repeatence for either they induce men that beleeve and are approoued for holines of life vnto baptisme and diligentlie expill from them that are vnworthie or where the children of the Church doe offend they rebuke them indeede and pardon them that repent As Paul did once commit the fornicator among the Corinthians vnto the destruction of his flesh that his spirit might be saued and receiued him againe lest he should be drowned with greater sorrowe Therefore when the spirit of Christ dwelling in men performeth the worke of the true God how shall he not be God by nature which naturallie possesseth the power and dignitie of the diuine nature when he hath so excellent authority vpon the lawe of God This last argument of Saint Cyrill by which he prooueth against the Macidonian heretikes that the holie Ghost is verie God declareth that he neuer meant to deifie Priests with the same authority that is proper to god by which it should follow that the holie Ghost were not God if men had that authority of remitting sin that god hath wherefore it followeth that men are onely instruments by which the holie ghost speaketh declareth his own will of remission of sins not that the holie Ghost is subiect to the Censure of man which were intollerable blasphemie And therefore if the same father did anie where cal the ministers of the Church protectours an̄d curers both of bodies and soules it cannot be drawne to anie such meaning as though they were in deede deified and made as you would saie partakers of Gods nature to worke Gods owne office in the world but the ministers of God appointed to serue for the eternall saluation of the Elect both in bodie and soule Their order is diuine and they exercise the office of the holie ghost as S. Ambrose saith but yet so that nothing is communicated vnto man that is proper to God Who they were that did simplie and plainlie tearme the principall Pastours of the Church halfe gods not meere men you do not expresse perhaps you meane the Author of that blasphemous verse writen to the the Pope and by him not refused Nec Deus es nec homo quasi neuter es inter vtrumque Thou art neither god nor man but a neuter between both I finde in the scripture that ciuil princes are called not halfe Gods but whole Gods because they execute some parte of Gods authoritie among men Yet he that shall saie their persons̄ are therebie deified might well be accounted a most blaspemous flatterer We may now see out of what pudle the toades of the familie of Loue are crept that vpon pretence of the spirit of god dwelling in men moste blasphemouslie affirme that it deifieth their persons to make them of abilitie to exercise the workes of God whereas the power of remitting of sinnes is graunted euen to wicked Priestes in which the holie Ghost dwelleth not although he hath bestowed his giftes vpon them to make them sufficient in knowledge and vtterance to preach the gospell ALLEN But Saint Ambrose helpeth our matter with a long discourse all I will not now reporte for the present purpose thus he saith disputing against the Nouarians for the assertion of Priestly dignitie in assoyling our sinnes Qui Spiritum sanctum accipit sic enim scriptum est Accipite spiritum sanctum quorum remiseritis peccata remittuntur eis quorum retinueritis retenta sunt Ergo qui soluere peccatum non potest non habet Spiritum sanctum Munus spiritus sancti est officium sacerdotis ius autem spiritus sancti in soluendis ligandis que criminib est He thatreceiueth the holy ghost his meaning is in the taking of orders receiueth therewith the power to binde and loose For so is it written Receiue you the holie Ghost whose sinnes you doe forgiue they are forgiuen them whose sinnes you doe reseine they are reteined Therefore they which cannot forgiue mens offences they haue not the holie ghost that is to saie they haue not the gift of the holie Ghost which is giuen to the officers for their execution of their function in Christes behalfe for the gift of the holie Ghost is the office of the priest and proper right of remission of sinnes standeth in the holie Ghost Thus wrote Saint Ambrose against the heretikes of his time and both toucheth and ouer ouercommeth all the falsehoode of our daies against the minesterie of man which so ioyneth Gods spirit in all these diuine functions that it cannot without blasphemie and special contempt of God be contemned FVLKE S. Ambr. helpeth your matter neuera whit if you be not content with a mynistery a seruise a power subiect to the wil of God But you wil be halfe gods and more then men you wil haue your persons deified you wil be able to exercise the proper works of God For S. Ambr. reasoneth against the Nouatians which would take vpō them to binde them that were fallen but would not loose them nor receue them againe into the Church vpon their repētance signifying that the power of the one is as wel graunted to the Church as of the other that it was as proper to God to reteine sinnes as it was to forgiue them so that if they renounced the one they must renounce the other also by the same reason for it is the proper right of the holie ghost to doe the one as well as the other And the Nouatian heretikes were found transgressours of Gods commaundement who willeth the repentant to be loosed as well as the obstinate offender to be bound Ambrose therefore sayeth nothing for the deifying of mens persons but for the executing of gods commaundement of mercy as well as of iustice ALLEN But I remember Saint Augustine the Churches great Captaine against her aduersaries of those daies did euer in disputation against the Pelagians and other like enemies of faith make the greatest accoumpt of victorie and their ouerthrow when they were driuen to denie that which euer before had beene not onelie acknowledged of all men for trueth but also had beene vsed as a graunted trueth ground and principle for the notable euidence thereof to the impugning of other falsehoodes For there can be no doubt but that which our holie Fathers did vse without controlling and contradiction euen of their aduersaries to impugne their aduersaries withall there is no doubt but that it hath in it selfe exceeding much light and force of trueth as a thing hauing so litle neede of proofe that it may be made and taken for a probation of other matters that be doubtefull and vncertaine The matter which we haue now in hand is of that sort For the authoritie and power practized of priests in the
contrarie doings may be What Epiphanius writeth of his heresie and Saint Ambrose confuted the same is shewed before as also how truelie Caluine is charged to iumpe with Nouatus in denying repentance after Baptisme because he calleth baptisme the sacrament of repentance as before him the auncient writers vsed accustomablie whereof you maie reade in his institution the place before mentioned ALLEN Mary long before that his fall to heresie S. Cornelius writein that he was possessed in his youth with an euill spirit for which he had to do great while with coniurers that he lacked all the holie solemnitie of Baptisme and confirmation and consequentlie the Spirit of God which by them he should haue receiued and therefore tooke orders against the law vpon sinister fauour and afterward by vnlawfull artes attempted to get abishopricke with great othes protesting that he would not be a Bishop if he might But when indeede he could not attaine to that holie dignitie which he so inwardlie and intollerablie gaped for he fell in despite of Gods Church to heresie that he might get that without order whch he could not obtaine in the right manner of the Churches making And for that purpose he procured three base Bishops out of a straunge and remote part of Italie who neither knew the case the man nor his manners and them through ignorance he beguiled and by force caused them to consecrate him Bishop by the colour whereof for true imposition of hands was it none sodenlie he appeareth as a new creature a Bishop of a strange stamp apparuit Episcopus velut nouum Plasma saith Cornelius And for this attempt one of the poore Bishops did great penance the other two were deposed In the meane time this mocke Bishop vendicabat sibi euangelium challenged the word of the Lord for him-selfe denied him-selfe to be a Priest because he would not giue to the people as Theodoritus saith in their extremitie the remedie for their sinnes which is nothing els but to giue them absolution which worke he could neuer abide To be short he was so incensed against his lawful Paslour and superiour the holie Bishop of Roome that in the deliuerie of the blessed sacrament to the people he would force them to take an oth by the blessed bodie which they had in their handes readie to receiue that they should stick to him and for sake the Bishop of Rome Cornelius All these thinges in sense hath Eusebius of Nouatus the first patron of the Protestants doctrine concerning the impugning of the Churches title in remission of sins of which her right he would haue robbed her in pretence of maintenance of Gods honour Whereby he also abrogated the wholl Sacrament of penance This falsehood though it were streight with he author condemned in a great Councell holden at Rome and afterward in diuerse Prouinciall Synodes and by the holie councell of Nice it selfe repressed also Yet it spred very sort and cintinued long and was not onelie by S. Cyprian but also by Dyonisius Alexandrinus Saint Amb ose and Saint Chrysostome refused in sundrie workes written against the Nouatians By whome and other though the course of that false assertion was often broken in gods Church yet in some partes they did knit againe sometimes by certaine heretikes of Nouatus daies called Tessarescedecatitae qui auersabantur poenitentiam saith Theodoritus who did abhorre penance and sometimes by a sort called Iacobitae 〈◊〉 whiles by wrcliffe his else by the Waldenses now and than by the Anabaptistes latly by the Lutherans moste of the protestantes by the Caluinistes eueryone All which blacke band though they agree not at euery pinch of Nouatus heresit for it is not possible that such should euer fullie consent yet all these knit tailes together in this that there is no sacrament of penance after Baptisme in which the priest may forgiue sinnes and that it standeth not with gods honour so to remit the peoples offences Of other the like heresies which he lent our men as of forbidding holie Chrisme and annointing of such as were by him baptized in so much that the holie fathers were glad to make vp the lacke thereof in all such as came from their heresie to the vnitie of Christes Church I will not here speake purposing onelie because that onelie concerneth our matter to refute that olde heresie raised so long since against the prerogatiue of Gods priests and onelie helpe of our sinnes that at once both the author and the ofspring may be fullie ouer throwen FVLKE Nouatus as he is described by Cyprian but that he came too soone before the open reuelation of Antichrist had beene a man much more fit to make a Pope of the Church of Rome whereof he was mockbishop then a poore minister of the Church of England And whatsoeuer you gatherout of Euseb. Theodoret or any other writer against him declareth that he was an execrable man but maketh no resemblance of his heresie with our doctrine concerning the power of remitting of sinnes You saie that he lacked all the solemnitie of baptisme and confirmation and consequentlie the spirit of God which by them he should haue receiued Eusebius indeed out of the Epistle of Cornelius writeth that after he was helped by exorcistes he fell into dangerous sicknes and being at the point of death and not considering he receiued baptisme in his bed if it may be said that such a one receiued For after he escaped his sicknes he obtained not therest whereof he should haue bin partaker according to the canon of the Church that is to be sealed or confirmed of the Bishope and hauing not obtained this how obtained he the holie Ghost By which wordes Cornelius meant that he which was baptized in extreamitie when he knew not what was done vnto him and afterward when he was whole had no care to approoue his baptisme by the Bishoppes iudgement vpon his owne confession acknowledging of Christian Religion could not be taken for a right Christian much lesse according to the discipline of those daies might be admitted vnto the ministerie But being admitted by a singular and if you will a sinister dispensation in time of persecution he was so fearefull that he denied himselfe to be a Priest when he was desired to come vnto them and onelie by wordes to confirme them that were stricken with the terrour of the tyrant as Therdoret writeth The oathe that he exacted of such as receiued the Sacrament of the Lordes supper at his handes was more like the oath that the pope exacteth of all Bishopes at their consecration then anie ministred in the Queenes Maiesties visitation That Wickliffe the Waldenses Luther or Caluine do denie repentance or reconciliation of them that are fallen after Baptisme it is a meere slaunder although they denie the Popish sacrament of penance whereof there was no mention in the Chuch manie hundred yeares after Nouatus That the Nouatians did not anoint those that
be read of euerie man amonge you with your confutations And Doctor Windham then saide that no wise state would suffer it Neuerthe lesse our state God be thanked vpon conscience of trueth on our side hath with no lesse wisedome then good successe alwaies permitted your bookes with our answers to them to be read of all men to iudge indifferentlie so they conteine nothing but question of religion and not shamefull diffamations and inuectiues against the prince and the state of gouernement which matters deserue to be answered with an axe or an halter rather then with penne and paper But to permitte your bookes vnconfuted to haue free passage althoughe they passe with an hundred times lesse daunger then ours maie doe among you as you require it were neither wisedome godlines equitie nor reason AN OVERTHROVVE OF THE ANSVVERE TO Master Charkes preface touching Discerning of Spirites M. Chark beside the matter in question c. IF this answerer beside the matter in question had not made manie vnnecessarie and vnpertinent digressions the substance of his answere might haue bene contained almoste in as fewe lines as nowe it filleth leaues The triall of the Spirites which Saint Iohn requireth that is by the kinde of doctrine in teaching Christ and not the qualitie of the teachers Master Charke desireth the aduersaries refuse allowing nothing finallie but the onelie and falselie named title of the Catholike Church of Rome for them-selues and accusations of the persons some perhapes true some vtterlie false against vs. To this practize so manie popish treatises and this especiallie in hand doe giue testimonie This is the summe of Master Charkes preface Nowe commeth our answerer and because he had manie by-quarrels to deliuer he taketh occasion to vtter them in this place though litle or nothing pertaining to the direct confutation of Master Charkes preface First he chargeth Master Charke to saie that the Papists refuse Saint Iohns triall which is false for their bookes are extant wherebie they haue called to triall all sectaries of our time among whome he nameth Munster and Stancarus against whome I neuer heard what Papists haue exercised their style especiallie Stancarus holding one principle comming verie neare to their position of Christs priesthood to be onelie according to his manhood as Stancarus taught that Christ was a mediatour onelie after his humanitie but reade their bookes who shall and he must needes confesse Master Charkes saying to bee true For first or last they draw all triall to Rome and not to examine which doctrine giueth al glorie to God by Iesus Christ our onelie Sauiour which is the scope of Saint Iohns triall But if wee had not desired triall of Spirites saith he wee would not haue laboured so much to obteine the same of our aduersaries in free printing preaching or disputation You speake of great labor which none of vs euer heard that you tooke except it were in spreading a fewe coppies of Campians seditious libell not to the end of triall of spirites for discerning of trueth but to the stirring vp of mens bodies and mindes to treason and rebellion as the like labors by the like messengers tooke effect and make manifest demonstration in Ireland But if free printing preaching and disputation be a goodway for discerning of Spirites that Christ maie be knowne from Antichrist whie doe not you Papists graunt the same in Spaine Italie and other countreis thrall to the Popes tirannie yet assaulted by the doctrine of the gospell as by the power of Christ against Antichrist if it be not a good waie as it seemeth you thinke because you take it not your selues how can you saie that you require in those places this triall of spirites No no it is an other triall of the sharpest swordes that you meane when you require such triall of Spirites You adde further of the aduenturing of your liues in comming and offering the same to vs at home with so vnequall conditions on your side as you haue done and dailie doe for the triall of trueth There is no daunger of life among vs in offering the triall of Spirites according to Saint Iohns rule but in seeking to auerte the Queenes subiects from their duetifull obedience vnto her Maiestie to make a waie for the execution of the Popes moste blasphemous and traiterous Bull and this hath procured moste iuste and necessarie execution of some fewe of you and not as you slaunder iustice that offering to trie the truth hath obtained nothing hitherto but offence accusations extreame rackings and cruell death Againe these inequall conditions these daily offers these manie petitions and supplications that you speake of whoe hath made to whome haue they bene offered when were they presented where were they seene or heard by whome were they refused except Campians ridiculous challenge be all in all with you But what will a Papist spare to affirme that he maie make falsehood haue some likly shape of truth yet being admitted that you offer trial it must be seene whoe doe offer best meanes of triall And here you will endeuour to shew that all meanes of triall which Master Charke and his fellowes will seeme to allow in worde For they offer none in deede are neither sure possible nor euident but meere shifts to auoide all triall and that your selues do offer all the best and surest waies of triall that euer weere vsedin the Church for discerning an hereticall spirit from a Catholike Your indeuour is great but your abilitie is small for you shall neuer be able to demonstrate either the one or the other howsoeuer with vaine sophistications and wrested authorities you seeke to dasell the eies of the simple Let vs heare therefore howe you beginne The onelie meanes of triall you say which Master Charke will seeme to allowe is the scripture But this is a shift common to all heretikes especiallie of our time First you slaunder Master Charke in saying that he alloweth the scripture to be the onelie meanes of triall of spirites whereof he speaketh not at all in this preface but of triall of spirites by the doctrine of Christ which is moste plainlie and certenlie set forth in the holie scriptures and therefore by the holie scriptures the doctrine maie best and moste certenlie be tried and iudged But that Master Charke by referring him selfe to the holie scriptures onelie as suffiâ—â—â—n and â—â—le to decide all controuersies of Religion doth denie or exclude all other meanes of 〈◊〉 whereby the true meaning of the scripture may be knowne it is impâ—dent he affirmed without either proofe or likelihood of truth as hereafter more plainlie will appeare Saint Augustine as though he were an enimie of conâ—â—â—â—ing heresies by the authoritie of the scriptures onelie is quoted in the margent de nupt Concup lib 2. cap. 31 whose words are these Non est miâ—â—am si Pelagiani dicta nostra in sensus 〈◊〉 volunt detoâ—quere conaâ—tur quando de scripturis sanctis non vbi obscurè
which is but a short section or Chap er doth not charge Luther with this opinion of heretikes not to be burned but the Donatists whose fansie is renewed againe in the Anabaptists and Libertines As for Luther Contra Latomum deincendiariis handleth not this controuersie at all but onelie expostulateth with the deuines of Louane which burned his bookes without examination or Conuiction of them out of the word of God Manie men haue complained and that moste iustlie of the crueltie of the Papists in burning as heretikes the true saints martyrs and members of the Church whose faith and religion they were neuer hable to conuince of heresie by the authoritie of gods word But that no blasphemer or obstinate heretike maintaining blasphemie against the expresse and manifest trueth of God is to be punished by death I am persuaded he can bring no booke or author of any accompt that so holdeth Fourthlie he addeth that Luther by onelie scripture found the sacramentaries to be heretikes D. Fulk by the same scripture findeth that both parties are good Catholikes But as Luther erred in his opinion of the sacrament so he was ouer rash in condemning those whome he calleth sacramentaries neuerthelesse seing he erred of ignorance and inconsiderate zeale he hath found mercie with God and is not to be adiudged as a blasphemous heretike For neither the error he maintained is blasphemie in it selfe neither did he hold it contrarie to his knowledge but as he was ignorantlie persuaded with zeale of trueth though deceiued with error How Doctor Fulke prooueth this not onelie by scripture but also by example of auncient fathers erring in like cases and yet not to be condemned for heretikes you maie reade in the place by this answerer quoted and in his confutation of Popish quarrels His last example is of manie things which Master Whitgift doth defend against Thomas Cartwright to be lawfull by scripture as Bishops Dcanes Archdeacons officialls holy daies and an hundreth more which in Geneua are holden to be flat conirarie to the scripture There are manie things lawfull by scripture which yet are not necessarie to be vsed The forme of external gouernment and discipline of the Church is not so expreslie set downe in holie scriptures but that euetie particulare Church hath libertie and must of necessitie appoint manie things for order decencie and gouernment which are not in expresse termes conteined in the scriptures euen as god shall giue them grace to see what is moste expedient according to the difference of times places and persons for the building vp of the Church in trueth and loue Wherefore although the Church of Geneua in the forme of outward regiment rites and discipline differing from the Church of England do not vse the same things that we do yet it followeth not that they holde them to be flat contrarie to the scripture neither is our answerer hable soundlie to prooue that he doth so boldlie asseuere To proceede he telleth vs what aduantage herctikes haue by onelie scripture they make them-selues therebie iudges of Doctors Councels histories presidentes cusiomes prescriptions yea of the bookes of scripture sense it selfe reseruing al interpretation to them-selues But this is nothing so for howsoeuerheretikes take vppon them to control al things according to their fantasie yet haue they noe aduantage by onelie scripture but therebie maie be are confounded when they come to examination tri all And as for the professors of the Gospell which acknowledge the scriprure to be sufficiente to teach all thinges needful to be knownevnto saluation although they are by god him selfe made Iudges of the spirits of al men by exacting them vnto the trial of the word of god which is the onelie certaine rule of truth yet doe they not by priuate authoritie iudge of Councells doctors fathers customs c. But by that charge which is laide vpon them to iudge cōdemne euen the Angels from heauen if they should bring anie other Gospell then that which the Apostles haue preached without al arrogancie or insolencie against the Angels Councels Doctors Fathers whatsoeuer but in giuing god the glorie to be onely true al men to be liers no Angel to be credited except they speake by the spirite of God of whose speach we haue no certaine demonstration but in the holie scriptures whatsoeuer is agreeable vnto them The discerning of the bookes of scripture of the true sense of them is also committed vnto the Church the faithful members thereof that doutful bookes be iudged by those that without doubt are indited by the holy ghost deliuered to the Church by faithfull witnesses instruments of the holy ghost to be of soueraigne and perpetual authority in the Church and so are knowne and taken of the true Church from time to time in such sorte that although the same truth maie be found in other bookes yet as Saint Augustine saith they are not of the same authoritie because there is not such certentie of trueth As for the sense and interpretation of the holie scriptures it must be taken out of the scriptures them-selues which are alwaies the best and surest interpretation of them-selues in all points necessarie to be knowne with the aide of the gift of tongues the gift of knowledge the gift of interpretation in them that haue labored in finding out the sense thereof according to the analogie of faith which is comprehended in the scriptures and that in places so plaine and euident as they neede no interpretation and therefore cannot be wrested by damnable heretikes without great impudencie and against their owne conscience for which cause Saint Paul willeth an heretike after the first second admonition to be auoided as one who though he will not acknowledge the truth yet he is condemned in his owne conscience and sinneth vnto eternall damnation Wherefore Councells Fathers Doctors customs examples are by vs admitted but not hand ouer head without distinction but such so farre forth as they be true and faithful interpreters of the scripture by matters and places plaine certenly knowne opening matters places obscure and vnknowne Which is the office of an expounder not to determine by his owne authority of anothers meaning whereof as among men euetie man is the best in terpreter of his owne so is the holy ghost of him-selfe in the scriptures by him inspired of whose meaning where they be hard to be vnderstood no man can be certaine but either by his own plaine wordes or by plaine necessary conclusion out of his plaine words Now touching the Papists whome our answerer saith to be restrained from chopping and changing affirming and denying at their pleasures because they binde them-selues to other things beside the scriptures to which they giue souereigne authoritie as to councells auncient fathers traditions of the Apostles and primatiue Church with the like the matter is farre otherwise For whatsoeuer they prate of the soueraigntie of
the scriptures of the authoritie of councels auncient fathers traditions of the Apostles and primitiue Church they binde them selues to nothing but to the present Popes authoritie and determi nation in thinges which he may choppe and chaunge at his pleasure against which they admitte neither scripture Councell Fathers nor Church For example brieflie The scripture moste plainlie forbiddeh the worshipping of Images will they giue soueraigne authoritie to the scriptures All the primitiue Church for six hundred yeares after Christ condemned the worshipping of Images euen Pope Gregorie that allowed the vse of them shall the authoritie of the primatiue Church or of Pope Gregorie in this point ouerrule them No I warrant you they will set them al to schoole and learne them a new lesson Theodoretus Bishop of Cyrus and Gelasius Bishop of Rome doe in plaine wordes affirme that the substance of bread and wine doth remaine in the Lordes supper after consecration doth either the antiquitie of these fathers or the determination of the Bishop of Rome which otherwise they affirme neuer to erre in doctrine preuaile with them against their new here sie of transsubstantiation The councells of Constantiople the first and of Chalcedon decreed that the Bishop of Constantinople should haue equall authoritie and dignitie with the Bishop of Rome The councells of Constans and Basill determined that the Councell is aboue the Pope The councels of Constantinople the sixt and Nice the second condemned the Pope for an heretike will the Papists of these daies trow you stand to the determination of these Councells you maie be assured they will not But the traditions of the Apostles they holde fast and binde them-selues vnto yea verilie as long and as much as they list What beareth a greater shew of the Apostles traditions then the Canons of the Apostles which excommunicate a Bishop priest or deacon that putteth away his wiffe vnder pretence of religion which excommunicate anie of the cleargie that is present at the communion doth not communicate except he shewe a cause whie he doth not Which admmitted him that is maimed in his eie or other partes of his bodie being otherwise worthie vnto the office of a Bishop because the maime of the bodie doth not pollute a man but the filthines of the soules These such like traditions of the Apostles how are they regarded of our Traditioners euen as much as they list and that is neuer a whit at this time and yet these men binde them selues to Councells Fathers traditions primitiue Church you see how farre Yea you see that while they raile vpon vs for appealing to onelie scriptures they themselues relie vpon the present Popes authoritie onelie Let all indifferent men therefore iudge whether it be more safe for a Christian man to bind him-selfe to the authoritie of scriptures onelie or to the Popes authoritie onelie and whether claime a priuiledge of ease they that will admitte no testimonie irrefragable but onelie the scripture or they which chattering of many other things in the end conclude vpon the Church onelie which when it commeth to triall is nothing els but the Pope onelie for if all the Church saie it and the Pope denie it it is nothing worth with them and if the Pope affirme it thoughe all the Church denie it it must stand for paiment But seeing the sense and interpretation of scripture is the cheefe matter we haue to speake of let vs consider whether Master Charke be iustlie charged by our answerer to haue abused that scripture by interpretation which is the chiefe ground of his preface and which he saith is a full and plaine rule whereby to discerne and trie the spirites namelie the text of Saint Iohn 1. Iohn 4. Euerie spirite which confesseth Iesus Christ being come in the flesh is of God and euerie spirite which confesseth not Iesus Christ being come in the flesh is not of God and this is that spirit of Antichrist c. This text Master Charke doth so expound as that it conteineth a confession not onelie of the person of Christ but also of his office for which office sake that wonderfull person of God and man Iesus Christ was ordeined and sent into the world to be a Prophet alone to teach a King alone to rule a Priest alone to sanctifie vs and to reconcile vs to his father by the obedience of faith And if any spiritte shall teach that Christ is not our onelie teacher by his Gospell but that we must admitte vnwritten beleefe and traditions from we know not whome to be of like authoritie with the written worde Secondlie if any spirite make not Christ alone our King and head to rule vs by his holie spirite but teach that a mortal and sinfull man must sit in our consciences and for hatred or gaine which is his practise binde or loose at his pleasure lastlie if anie spirite impeach the all-sufficiencie and entire vertue of Christes sacrifice offered vp once for euer and teach that themselues must enforce it from day to day by the continuance of their daylie sacrifice of the Masse offered for the quick and the deade it appeareth manifestlie that such spirits are not of God c. This interpretation of Master Charke saith the answerer conteineth manie absurdities For first the auncient fathers did expound this place as of it selfe it is moste euident against the Iewes which denied Christ to haue taken flesh also against Ebion Cerinthus and other heretikes that denied the Godhead of Christ. Note here by the aduersaries confession that some places of scripture are of them selues moste euident whereof this is one against the Iewes other heretikes that deny the godhead of Christ. And I hope you shall see it shortly as euident against the Papists that denie his offices To this interpretation of the auncient fathers we agree that whosoeuer denieth the person of Christ or any thing proper to his person is of Antichrist But none of the auncient fathers doe affirme that this text is to be vnderstood against such enemies onelie as denie the Godhead or manhoode of Christ. For Augustine and Oecumenius do interpret it against all heretikes and schismatikes which although they confesse this matter in wordes yet denie it in deedes and Oecumenius against all wicked persons which haue not the spirite of Christ mortifying their vngodlie lustes which carie not the mortification of Christ in their bodie c. Augustine also expoundeth the place against all that breake charitie Omnes negant Iesum Christum in carne venisse qui violant charitatem All they denie Iesus Christe to haue come in the flesh which doe breake or violate charitie whie so because not onelie the person that came but the end whie he came must be considered in the interpretation of this place as Saint Augustine rightlie iudgeth or els all heretikes will after a manner in tongue and wordes confesse that Iesus Christ came in the flesh But Quaeramus saith
same that Christ said it to be we beleeue the same The whol discourse of the Doctor in that place is contrarie to the error of the carnall presence where he sheweth that the sacrament is the Image of Christ as man is the Image of God though he be not equall with God as the sacrament is not equall with Christ but an insensible thing yet neuerthelesse by grace is called and beleeued to be that which Christ said of it This saying of Epiphanius do we allow and vse as an inumcible argument against transsubstantiation and the carnal manner of presence as was well tried when in the conference at the tower it was opposed vnto your client Campian who had nothing but vaine wordes to anoide it being a place which he neither vnderstood in the authors tongue nor after it was expounded in English could tell the argument or occasion of it To the places cited out of Chrysostome I answered that albeit they be sometimes hyperbolicall yet as he vnderstood them and doth manie times expounde him selfe we confesse them to be true and yet no carnall presence prooued by them as In Mat. H. 83. which our answerer citeth in these wordes Sed quoniam ille dixit hoc est corpus meum credamus etiamsi sensui absurdem esse videatur Because Christ hath said this is my bodie we must beleeue it although it seeme absurd to our sense The saying is good and catholike but yet it is not altogether Chrysostomes neither in this homilie nor in the Hom 60. ad Pop. Antioch which also he quotech for it The wordes of Chrisostome in Math. Ho. 83. of the translation of Trapezuntius be these Quoniam ergo ille dixit hoc est corpus meum nulla teneamur ambiguitate sed credamus oculis intellectus id perspiciamus Because then he hath said this is my bodie let vs not be holden with anie doubtfulnesse but let vs beleeue and behold it with the eies of vnderslanding And ad pop Antioch Ho. 60. of Germanus Brixius translation these are his wordes Quoniam igitur verbum dicit hoc est corpus meum pareamus credamus intellectualibus ipsum occulis intueamur But because the word saieth this is my bodie let vs borh obey and beleeue and beholde him with the eies of vnderstanding A third place he cyteth out of this father in I. Cor. ho. 24. in these wordes Hoc idem corpus cruentatum lancea vulneratum quod in caelum extulit This is the verie same bodie whose blood was shed and which was wounded with the speare and which he carried vp with him We graunt as much that we receiue in the sacrament the verie same bodie of Christ that was crucified wounded dead and caried into heauen yet not comming downe to vs but we as Chrisostome saith in the same homelie by faith made Egles and ascending vp into heauen where Christ is yet the wordes be not altogether as our answerer citeth them for immediatelie after the word vulneratum followeth Fontes sanguinis aquae 〈◊〉 so orbi salutares scaturiuit Flowed forth 〈◊〉 of bloode and water healthful to all the world But he were to be pardoned that hath nothing of his owne reading but is faine to cite all out of other mens notes if he were not such a proude and malepert censurer of other men To proceede after these quotations and citations of the auncient Doctors he commeth to his aduersaries to shew how contrarie they are in vnderstanding of this text of scripture This is my bodie they haue found out saith he a new exposition affirming that it must be construed this is onelie the signe of my bodie for which they haue neither scripture nor auncient father for warrant or example But which of your aduersaries good sir giueth this construction This is the signe of my bodie some do interpret it and for that you maie haue warrant of auncient Doctors more then euer you read if you durst denie it but this is onelie the signe by which you meane a bare signe to exclude all true feeding vpon Christ in his supper none of the Protestantes your aduersaries did euer affirme What Libertines Anabaptists and other fantasticall heades haue imagined we haue nothing to doe with it no more then with the eight seuerall expositions numbred by Luther or those 84. gathered by Claudius de Xanctes from all which we disclaime and from all other sauing from one which is the true interpretation And yet it is certaine that Luther an enemie to this trueth streineth much Claudius ten times more the words of the Christian Protestants to so great numbers of interpretations Among whome if eighty more do vtter the same sense in diuers wordes you will make no lesse then 80. interpretations But because M. Chark acknowledgeth Luther to be illuminated singularlie by the holie ghost and he is compared to Elias by the common phrase of all Protestants our answerer taketh paines to repeat diuers bitter sayings of his against our interpretation of those wordes of Christ as which he had reuealed to him by his holie spirite A wife matter as though Luther being singularly illuminated by the holie ghost is made a Pope by M Charke that he can not erre in anie thing or being compared by some Protestants and in some respects for it is a lowd lie that he is compared by al Protestantes to Elias may not be deceiued in anie point as Eliashim-selfe was But doth our answerer trow you cite more truelie out of Luther then he did of late out of the olde writers that we might thinke perhaps he hath read the latter more diligentlie although he hath beene litle conuersant in the former I will giue you a taste by one or two places and first that which he citeth out of Luthers epistle ad Argentinenses wherein he clippeth and geldeth out diuerse wholl sentences at his pleasure or rather as his note booke did lead him So that it is plaine he hath read no more in Luther then in the auncient Doctors The wordes are these Hoc diffiteri nec possum nec volo c. This can I not nor will denie but if Carlostadius or anie manels could for fiue yeares past haue persuaded me that there had bene nothing in the sacrament but bread and wine he should haue bound me to him by a great good turne For I haue taken great care and anxietie in discussing this matter and haue endeuoured with all my power and synowes siretched out to ridde my selfe of the same Seeing I did well perceiue I might verie greatlie and especiallie hurt the papacie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Moreouer I had two men which did write vnto me of this matter more rightlie and sharplie then Carolostadius nor sowresting the wordes after the capacitis of their owne 〈◊〉 But I do se my selfe captine no waie being left to escape For the text of the Gospell is too plaine and strong and such as cannot easilie be ouerthrowen
Iesuites in discredit whose infections are well knowne abroade and are now entred to worke treason in the land Also because he graunteth the speaches which in all hatred of Popish practizes so directlie attempted against the maiestie of God and the peace of this noble kingdome he vttered in diuerse places of his answere But if you had not omitted the reasons which he setteth downe of his acknowledging and graunting of those vehement speaches they had beene sufficient in any reasonable mans opinion to discharge him out of that crime of rayling For you your selfe confesse afterward that euerie hotte word vttered in Catholike bookes by occasion of matter is not to be taken for rayling Now Master Charke standeth to the defence of his booke to be Christian and Catholike and him-felfe to be a true member and Minister of the Catholike Church of Christ and for occasion of matter he alledgeth the infections of the Iesuites well knowne abroad and their late entrie to worke treason in the land Also those Popish practises against which he vttered those speaches to be directlie attempted against the Maiestie of God and the peace of this noble kingdome so that such sharpe speaches and yet but sparinglie vttered in comparison of so many reproches as you haue belched out against him and our religion are not to be charged with the preiudice of rayling neither in regard of the person whoe did vse them or of the matter that did occasion them At the least wise vntill you had disprooued him to be a Catholike or discharged your Iesuites of the crimes of heresie and treason intended against them neither doth he with slaunder deuised against their persons as the manner of the Papists is seeke to discreditte their doctrine but in detestation of their false doctrine attribute such termes vnto the men as for their doctrines sake they deserue But you are gratious to graunt him pardon for that he confesseth hatred to haue beene the cause as though hatred not of the persons whome he wisheth to repent vnto saluation but of the practizes which he knoweth to be against God and the peace of the realme may not be a iust cause of more vehement inuectiues then he hath anie expressed And yet you see not how any learned or common honest man and much lesse a preacher can iustifie such vnciuill and outragious termes against his brother by any pretence of Christianlike or tollerable hatred I will not say how mány foule re proches be included in this one sentence taking it according to your meaning for I will graunt that you saie to be true if it may be vnderstoode of him that is a brother in deede But that Iesuites are brethren to Master Charke and such preachers as he is I thinke neither the Iesuites nor you your selfe if you be demaunded when you are awake will acknowledge Therefore being such as M. Charke had before described them by their infections treasons practizes against God and the realme he was not to imbrace them as bretheren but to detest them as heretikes and traytors The turning backe of the crime of railyng which he vseth vnto you was not for any excuse of the crime committed by him selfe for he doth not at all excuse but iustifie defend those speaches which you cal railing as fit words against the wicked Monkish fryers or fryerlie Monks affirming that if he were disposed to place your ordinary and extraordinary rayling in a ranke he might gather of your reproches more then can come into ten leaues but this you saie is neither to the purpose nor trewe not to the purpose because you were prouoked by his example and iniurie who began without example He might answere you that he began not with you but you with him neither did he prouoke you by any priuate iniurie but if you count the cause of the Iesuites to pertaine vnto you as a publike iniurie then iudge in differentlie whether the heresies and treasons of the Iesuites doe not minister iust cause to him of his hatred and bitter speaches against them But that he could gather ten leaues of your rayling you say it is a licentious lie For as Printers count leaues that is wholl sheetes there are but halfe ten in your booke and albeit they be counted as they are folded yet ten leaues are a greater part thereof then can be filled with rayling termes onelie So you saie and seeme to saie somewhat to your purpose but Master Charke hauing tolde you before vnto which your silence may stand for a confession that almost euerie line soundeth loud with some foull reproch who cannot see that it were easie to gather almost out of euerie line so many foull reproches as would fill more then ten of your folded leaues For of Printers large count no reasonable man would vnderstand him except you would allow him also to make as large letters and as fewe lines as Printers sometimes vse to doe in such large leaues of their account But this matter you may not so soone passe ouer for that you thinke it of importance to descrie she spirites of vs that are aduersaries in this case Rayling in deed is a fault in whomsoeuer it be found but it had beene requisite that you had first defined what is rayling that we might haue agreed vpon the matter in question You tell vs afterward what is not rayling namelie euerie hotte word vttered in Catholike bookes by occasion of matter is not railing nor the thing in question for both Christ his Apostles and many holy fathers aster them vsed the same sometimes vpon inst zeale especially against heretiks So that vntilyou haue prooued Protestants to be noe true Catholikes discharged papists from being heretikes euerie hotte worde in our bookes vttered against Papistes can not iustlie be accompted railing Naie if Catholikes by heate of zeale in a iust cause or in a case that they thinke to be iust be caried somtimes in vehemencie of speech beyond the bandes of modestie as they maie be iustlie reprooued therefore so they maie not straightwaie be condemned for heresie in so doing Iames and Iohn were so farre deceiued with zeale and in a cause that they thought to be cleare and iust that they would haue praied that fire might come downe from heauen by example of Helias and destroy the Samaritanes that resused to receiue their master Christ and were otherwise heretikes for which they weere reprooued but yet as they which knew not or had forgotten of what spirit they were yet not by and by reiected for heretikes The contention was sharpe betweene Paull and Barnabas and there was a fault betweene them yet both holie Apostles Saint Ierome is misliked of manie for immoderat vehemencie of speech against Rusfinus as good a Catholike as him-selfe yea he is not to be excused in heat against Saint Augustine Vigilantius and Iouinian he handleth more hardlie in termes then the cause of either of them did deserue although the one were in
discharge your Iesuites of herisie and treason the wordes of scorpions and venemous spiders are no railing termes but apt to expresse their venemous and poisonous practises for they are vsed in scripture to describe the like mischeuous workes as Apocal. 9. Esa. 59. 5. The rest of his speaches haue either the same or the like phrases iustified in the scriptures against corrupters of Religion and enimies of publike peace as we shewe your Iesuites to be for the former and their practises to the confusion of some of them haue beene discouered for the latter With Master Hanmers termes I will not meddle who is to answer for him-selfe when you haue confuted his arguments or els when he shall see it conuenient Doctor Fulke the next man whom you condemne to be of a ruffianlike spirit because he saith shew me Allin if thou canst for thy guttes as though you raile not more of him in your ruffianlike terme then he in speaking of Allens guttes whatsoeuer the cause or affection were hath answered alreadie in his own behalfe in such sort as more shame redowndeth to you that haue gathered together his vehement and sharpe speaches vttered in manie bookes and to those whome you complaine by him to be abused while he giueth a reason of his speaches then all the eloquence you haue wil be able to wipe away in a larger treatise then your defense of the Censure as yet appeareth to be Confut of Topish quarrelles page 20. and so forth in 16. or 17 pages If it were no more but your marginall note Docter Fulkes talent in railing wherein you abuse an holie phrase of scripture like an Italian Atheist to mooue Sardonicall laughter it were much more able to conuince you of a ruffianlike spirit then anie terme that D. Fulke vseth seeing such vnreligious allusions vnto the termes and matters of holie scripture cannot be defended in anie man cause or manner The like you haue of Primitias spiritus and Luthers lying with a Nunne in the Lord all which argue a prophane spirite and a licentious intemperate and almoste blasphemous tongue or penne in anie that vse them or the like When you haue almoste done with Doctor Fulke you take vpon you to shew the like rayling in the Masters as you terme them that you haue done in the schollers and beginning with Iohn Caluin you saie that his ordinarie terme especially against Bishoppes and such like as are his superiours is to call them Nebulones knaues which beside the foull gall whence it proceedeth is vnseemelie For this you neither note nor quote anie one place where he vseth that terme in such sort as either his gall might thereby be espied or the same signfying light persons might not fitlie be applied vnto them vpon whome he bestowed the terme As for your popish Bishoppes are not his superiours but for the most part deserue sharper termes then Nebulones euen such as were fitte for Annas Caiphas Ananias and the rest of that race which were as great prelates as they Hauing nothing more against Caluin you passe ouer to Luther who in his booke against King Henrie the eight of England ministreth vnto you larger matter to triumph against him where in it maie be doubted whether you had greater pleasure in discouering of Lu ther 's intemper at stile then in displaying those odious and long since buried reproches against that noble Prince so great an enimie to your Romish Antichrist which as they were vnseemelie in respect of either of their persons him that did write the Prince against whom he did write so they were afterward misliked of Luther himselfe who in as great humilitie as before he did write in disdaine craued pardon at his handes not for the matter substance of his booke but for his vnreuerent handling of the same against a King of so great nobility of so good expectation the cause that mooued him to such destemper was for that he supposed that the booke was not endited by the King him selfe but by some enimie of his to procure his dishonour as he writeth in the same booke Crederes ab insigni hoste regis hunc librum editum in perpetuam regis ignominiam You would thinke that his booke was set forth by some notable enimie of the Kinges to the perpetuall shame of the King And in his Epistle of submission he declareth that he suspected cardinall Wolsey to be the author thereof which made him the bolder to write as he did against it And in the storie of Sir Thomas Moores life written by his sonne in lawe Master Roper which I haue seene it appeareth that Kinge Henrie tooke great displeasure against Sir Thomas Moore for the edition of that booke by which he receiued more dishonour then by anie thing in all his life Luther therfore writing against him that did abuse the name of the Kinge in defence of an euill cause thought he was not bound to spare him because of the Kinges title but that he might so much the rather be free to inueigh against him But this to saie the trueth might be some part of an excuse though not a sufficient defense of his doing neuerthelesse it followeth not here of that he could not be an elect vessell of God or that he had no part of Gods spirit or that he was herein worsse then anie russian or rakehell as our seuere Censurer saith without either malice or railing spirit I warrant you For Gods elect children they that haue a great part of his spirit do sometimes fal into far greater crimes then this and yet by his grace are brought to repentance as Luther was for this vntemperat stile and thereof made open confession in his epistle of submission againe he erred by immoderat zeale yet in defense of the truth which is not the cause that mooueth ruffians and rakehelles to rage Wherefore it is well with Luther that hath alreadie answered the matter before a more wise and merciful iudge and standeth not at the curtesie of our solemne Censurer But it is more to your purpose that you bring in Luther inueighing against the Caluinistes where he had not by our owne confession a good cause the Caluinistes againe as bitter against him a tast whereof though you refer the matter to another place you wil needes giue vs here by citing of one place in stead of all the rest and that is of the Church of Tygurine against Luther Tygur 〈◊〉 3. contra supermam Lutherij confessionem whole wordes you promise to rehearse out of what edition I cannot tell for the edition of Tigure by Froshere 1545. of Gwalters translation reporteth their wordes somewhat otherwise and therefore I thinke in this place as in diuers other you are but a broaker of other mens ware to put forth that you neuer sawe your selfe but gather out of some other mans notebooke which reported not al thinges either with such diligence or faithfullnes as had beene requisite to be found in
scriptum est post concupiscentias tuas non eas sed non perficit quia non implet quod scriptum est Non concupisces He doth much good which doth that which is written goe not after thy lustes but he maketh not his good perfect because he fulfilleth not that which is written Thou shalt not lust These wordes and the wholl Chapter prooueth that Saint Augustine vnderstandeth the tenth commaundement of concupiscence whereunto no consent is added Againe lib. de spir lit cap. vltimo he saith that this commaundement Thou shalt not lust perteineth to the life to come because no man can fulfill it in this life but the other Goe not after thy lustes perteineth to this life because men may restreine by Gods grace consent and delectation in lust Your third quotation is lib. 19. Cont. Faustum cap. 7 where Saint Augustine saith no more for you then in the rest sauing that he saith That for as much as it is hard for vs to fullfill in euerie respect that which is written in the law thou shalt not lust Christ beeing made a prieste by the sacrifice of his flesh obteineth pardon for vs euen so fulfilling the law that by his perfection might be recouered that which by our infirmitie we could not In which saying except you will cauill vpon the terme of difficultie which in other places he maketh a flat impossibilitie there is no shadow for your assertion In your fourth quotation Cont. 2. ep Petil. lib. 3. cap. 7. or in steede of Petil. as I gesse you would saie Pelagianorum is nothing sounding to the matter but rather the contrarie that perfection cannot be in this life because there cannot be perfect iustice or fulfilling of the law Where fore I can but wonder at your impudencie in these quotations And yet as though you had found a great 〈◊〉 you saie it is most worthie of laughter which Master Charke for filling vp of a page discourseth of S. Pauls estate when he saith Paul compareth his estate before his knowledge of the tenth commaundement with his state afterward c. Verelie the Greeke prouerbe hath place in you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. A foole lauheth when there is nothing worthie of laughter You aske how he could be ignorant of that commaundement considering his education yet be able to 〈◊〉 other sinnes by the light of naturall reason But Master Charke saith he knew other sinnes by the law and light of nature He knew also by his bringing vp that it was written in the law thou shalt not lust but he vnderstood it not otherwise then the Pharises did which thought they were able to keepe the law But after he learned what originall sinne and the lust thereof proceeding was he sound himselfe condéned by the tenth commaundement which he could not doe by the other nine from which it is perfectlie distinct nor by the light of reason for the philosophers could neuer atteine to vnderstand that sinne But concupiscence with consent and delectation they could perceiue to be vitious and sinfull So that your sardonicall laughter may be staide and turned to weeping if 〈◊〉 had grace to know that commaundement as Saint Paul had whereof it appeareth you are as ignorant as euerhe was Concerning the similitude of the latine tongue whereof the tongue is onelie an instrumentall cause as it answereth not the effect of originall sinne so being a contention of termes I will not stand vpon it Againe I confesse it is not necessarie that euerie effect of originall sinne should be sinne in the regenerate as hunger sicknes c. but originall sinne is not so the efficient of these as of actuall sinnes for the iustice of God is the good proper and principall next efficient of those punishments sinne is the cause moouing the iustice of God to punish but original sin is the immediat euil material cause of actual sin That the guilt of original sin is taken-away from theregenerate in and by baptisme we do not denie yet remaineth the sin after baptisme though it be not impured as sinne vnto condemnation in the children of God That Christ is called sinne because i. e is a sacrifice to take awaie sinne maie prooue as you saie that something is figuratiuelie called sinne which properlie is no sinne But that concupiscence should as vnproperlie be called sinne you can not prooue because it is a matter and increaser of sinne Your false quotation Rom. 8. where Christ is called sinne you would iustifie by the 3. verse where there is no such matter but that God sent Christ in the similitude of sinfull flesh and of sinne condemned sinne in the flesh But if the text will not serue you send vs to the commentaries which can not alter the text howsoeuer some do compare this place with that of 2. Cor. 5. 21. and other some do take it otherwise Touching the auncient Fathers 〈◊〉 in the Censure to testifie that concupiscence is not sin in the regenerat if consent be not yealed c. you saie he hath passed ouer Cyprian and Pacacius without anie word vnto him The cause is for that they saie nothing to him in the matter controuersed beteweene him and you For Cyprian in both the places sheweth that baptisme by the spirit of God purgeth a man and washeth him cleane from all spots of sinne Which Master Charke confesseth as concerning the guilt because concupiscence though it remaine is not imputed for sinne in the regenerated But the question is what concupiscence of it selfe deserueth 〈◊〉 in the regenerated if it were imputed by Gods iustice as it is forgiuen by his grace Albeit he be not bound to take all that Cyprian writeth for Gospel especiallie in that Sermon de ablutione pedum if it be Cypriant As for Pacianus he saith not all so much If you haue anie wordes in the Fathers that maie enforce your meaning set them downe plainlie and mocke vs no longer with dumme questiones Ambrose and Clemens Alexandrinus as Master Charke telleth you haue not your wordes nor sense for whatsoeuer they saie of the purenes of them that are regenerated we acknowledge with them in respecte of the remission of their sinnes not that the regenerated are voide of al sinne or naturall corruption more then they be voide of infirmitie and mortalitie Where Clemens saith that concupiseence alone is adultrie you labour in vaine to adde consent for the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 alone doth exclude what soeuer you can adde vnto it Where you cauill that he exhorteth the Gentiles to resist these motions of concupiscence and would prooue thereby that they are not the first motions which are vnauoidable it is a tale for he exhorteth the Gentiles to Christianitie where they should finde remission of all sinnes and all honnstie oflife Gregorie Nazianzen hath an oration or homilie intituled of holie baptisme but not de S. Iana as your Censure had in the first edition and in that oration he prooueth not your
examples of inuocation of Saintes praier for the dead purgatorie and the like if you can winne them either by manifest wordes or by necessarie conclusion we are content you shall weare them and we also wilyeald vnto them otherwise you prate without proofe of expressed in the scripture trifling vppon the terme expressed which either we vse not in this question or els we meane therbie certainlie declared and taught in the scriptures either in expresse wordes or by necessarie conclusion But now let vs see how Master Chark is distressed in answering these twelue particulers For the first of the seauen which he acknowledgeth to be contained in the scripscripture which is that there is two natures and two wills in Christ he citeth these wordes Rom. 1. of his sonne which was made vnto him of the seede of Dauid according to the flesh Also Math. 26. not as I will but as thou wilt here you saie that the interpretation of the Church being set aside and the bare text onelie admitted these places cannot conuict an heretike yes verelie the onelie authoritie of the textis sufficient to confit me faith and to conuince an heretike For the former point thus The diuinitie and humanitie are two natures in Christ is diuinitie and humanitie ergo two natures The maior is manifest the minor is plaine by the text the sonne of God one nature the seede of Dauid an other nature For the fecond point The will of God and the will of man the one contradictorie to the other are two willes In Christ was the will of God contradictorie to the wil of man ergo two wills The minor is prooued out of the text not as I wil but as thou wilt seeing Christ was both God man That the Monothelits in the 6. Councill of Costantinople could not be conuinced out of the scriptures it is an intollerable slaunder of that reuerend assemblie for euen by this text and manie other their error was made manisest wherunto albeit the consent of the aun cient fathers was added yet is there no word in all that 4. action which you quote to prooue that they were not sufficientlie confuted out of the holie scriptures The second point is the proceeding of the holie ghost from the father and the sonne equallie for which Master Chark quoteth Ioh. 15. 26. When the holie ghoste shall come which I will send you from my father the spirit of trueth which proceedeth from the father c. Against this you cauill that it prooueth not the proceeding equallie and cite Cyril for your witnes in 15. Ioh. who out of this place prooueth that equally as wel as the proceeding seeing the heretikes might be ashamed to say that the spirit of the father was sent by the son as by a minister which also if they should saie he disprooueth for that if the sonn were as a minister he should be of an other substance then the father and the spirit proceeding from the father being of the same substance with the father should be greater in nature then the fonne whereas the sonne saith plainlie of the holy ghoste he shal glorifie me c. An other cauil you haue that this place telleth not whether he proceeded by generation or without generation from the father But it is sufficient that neither this place nor any other place of scripture teacheth that the holie ghoste is begotten therefore we beleeue without generation The third point is the vnion of the word vnto the nature of man and not to the person of man which because you did set downe obscurelie M. Charke did not rightlie vnderstand yet the text that the quoteth 1. 〈◊〉 14. The word was made flesh includeth that assertion also seeing there was no person of the man when the vnion was made vnto the nature of man but the word in taking vpon him the nature of man did vnite him selfe to it in vniting tooke it as it is euident Luk. 1. 35. Mat. 1. 20. The fourth doctrine is the baptising of infants for which Master Charke quoteth Gen. 17. 12. the infant of eight daies shall be circumcised Against this you haue manie trifling cauills that baptisme is not expressed of the sexe of the eight daie Against which I oppose the authoritie of Saint Augustine which lib. 1. cont Crescon Grammat cap. 31. confuteth the rebaptization of such as were baptized by heretikes by example of them that were circumcised by the Samaritantes whose circumcision was not to be repeated to whome the like might be obiected But it is sufficient that wherein baptisme answereth to circumsion the reason is one in both Circumcision was the sacrament of regeneration as baptisme is the one giuen to infantes ergo the other The cerimonie of the eight day had an other reason not needefull to be obserued in baptisme The distinction of the sexe is taken awaie by Christ in whome there is neither male nor female That Beza was striken dumme with this question in the conference at Poyssie it is a slaunder of Cladius de Xanctes confuted by Beza him-selfe But you had rather followe Saint Augustine who contendeth and prooueth that baptizing of infantes is onelie a tradition of the Apostles and not left vs by anie written Scripture lib. 10. cap. 23. super Gen. ad lizeram So you write but I will set downe Saint Augustines wordes that the reader may see what contention and proofes he vseth hauing protested of his ignorance how the reasonable soule commeth into the bodie he concludeth that the baptisme of infantes fauoreth their opinion which thinke that soules are procreated of the parentes And of the baptisme of infantes thus he writeth Consuctudo tamen matris Ecclesiae in baptizandis paruulis nequaquam spernenda est neque vllo modo superflua de putanda nec omnino credenda nisi Apostolica esset traditio Habet enim illaparua aet as magnum testimonij pondus quae prima pro Christo meruit sanguinē fundere Yet the custome of our mother the Church in baptizing of infantes is not to be despised nor by any meanes to be thought superfluous nor to be credited at all if it were not an Apostolike tradition for euen that litle age hath greate weight of testimonie which first obteined to shed blood for Christ. You see that here is neither contention not profe that it is onelie a tradition not leftin writing for he alledgeth one testimonie out of Scripture of gods acceptation of that age to martirdome much rather to baptisme and manie other testimonies might be brought for the same purpose as Matt. 19. 14. 1. Cor. 7. 14. c. As for Origen he doth onelie make mention of the baptisme of infants according to the obseruance of the Church to prooue originall sinne But whether it stand onelie vpon tradition and not vpon the scripture he saith not one word The 5. Doctrine is the changeing of the Sabbath into Sondaie M. Charke quoteth Apo. 1. 10. I was in the spirit on
of his godhead which is proper vnto it Andwhatsoeuer in holie scripture is read to be exercised of him through the might of Gods spirit by the vertue of his annointing by the finger of God by the sending of the Father by power receiued from aboue by Priesthood praiers or sacrifice by the Sonne of man of the head of the Church or iudge of the liuing and dead whatsoeuer is in this sort said to be done it is not otherwise lightlie meant but in respect of Christs humanitie by which and in which he worketh the same not as by the proper and naturall power or force thereof but as by iurisdiction receiued of the blessed Trinitie and imploied vpon the sonne of man for the procuring of saluation to his people whereof he is become in our very nature the head FVLKE This generall rule is so abridged with the exception lightlie that it is hard to bring anie instance against it but Allen would haue his starting hole in it Neuerthelesse seeing he concludeth the examples before remembred to be included within this rule we maie be bolde to charge him with a spice of Nestorianisme seeing those workes which are certaine to haue beene the workes of the Mediator God and man he ascribeth to the onelie humanitie by iurisdiction receiued from the blessed Trinitie whereby it should followe that the worke of Christe in this respect should not differ from the workes of Moses Elias Dauid or anie of the Prophets whoe receiued iurisdiction from the blessed Trinitie whereby they performed manie workes which the same blessed Trinitie had appointed for the procuring of saluation vnto his people ALLEN Therefore no Christian man maie doubt but as our Sauiour by the omnipotent power of his Godhead might and did forgiue sinnes to the penitent so likewise that as he was Priest the sonne of man he might by the right of his office vnction and ministerie in the vertue of the holie Ghost remitte sinnes also And for that cause principallie in the Prophet Esay it is said Spiritus Dominisuper me eò quòd vnxerit me ad annunciandum mansuetis misit me vt mederer contritis corde praedicarem captiuis indulgentiam clausis apertionem The Spirit of the Lord vopn me because he hath annointed me and sent me to signifie vnto the meeke that I should heal the contrite in heart to preach pardon to the prisoners and freedome to the closed The which place of the Prophet our Sauiour applied vnto him selfe in the Church of Nazareth and is to be vnderstanded onelie of preaching and pardoning by the holie vnction of the Spirit of God and his Fathers calling And therefore it must needes according to Saint Augustines iudgement concerne the shape of his seruice and manhood taken on him in which he preached so that yet it pleased him to affirme that his Doctrine was not his owne but his Fathers that sent him and healed the contrite in heart which is nothing els but to forgiue sinnes to the penitent after such a sort that it might well appeare to be receiued and practised by the vnction of the Spirit of God and sending of his Father whereby the Sonne of man might doe that as Gods minister in his manhood in earth which both he and his eternall Father with the holie Spirit of them both doe worke by their owne one and equall authoritie in heauen euerlastinglie FVLKE And seeing he willeth vs to note the ground of the cause which is that Christ as he was Priest and the sonne of man might remit sinnes by a ministeriereceiued by vnction of the holie Ghost it is not lightlie to be passed ouer That the sonne of man had power vpon earth to forgiue sinnes he him-selfe affirmeth Mat. 9. 6. but this was the power of his godhead which was not restreined nor abased by the shape of a seruant in which he appeered on earth That he was authorized by vnction of the holie Ghost to preach remission of sinnes vnto the penitent it pertaneth indeede vnto him in respect of his manhood although Saint Augustine in the place by Allen quoted saieth not so but citeth the place of Esaie to prooue that Christ in respct of his humanity was inferior to the holy Ghost but that this is all the power that Christ had vpon earth to remit sinnes it is not prooued by anie argument For this ministerie of reconciliation to remit sinnes by preaching of the Gospell doth remaine still with the Church the other that was proper to his Deitie no mortall man without Sacriledge can arrogate or vsurpe ALLEN And though God hath neuer 〈◊〉 mans fall vsed the meanes and seruice of man to his restore againe and to the reliefe of his lackes and therefore hath giuen authority by his holie spirite and vnction to diuerse of the olde law to offer sacrifice praier and procure remission to the people of all their offences and no lesse 〈◊〉 occasion serued and the matter required to correct their misdeedes by iudgement and iurisdiction giuen vnto them for which soueraigne calling they were called the annointed of God an externall ceremonie of anoyting being solemnelie annexed thereunto yet our Lord an Master whether you consider his high Priesthoode by which in moste ample manner through commission receiued he maie procure our pardone or his calling to be head of the Church by which he ruleth and keepeth all the bodie in due subiection and order or his ministerie of preaching whereby farre aboue all the Prophets and preachers of the olde law he openeth to his flock the Church the secret mysteries of Gods trueth Christ I saie in all these respectes being man is yet much more abundantlie blessed and anointed without comparison aboue all his fellowes and copartners as the holy Prophet Dauid doth testifie Vpon whose wordes touching that matter Saint Hilarie writeth thus Vnxit te Deus Deus tuus oleo exultationis prae participibus tuis non secundùm sacramentum aliud quà m secundùm dispensationem assumpti corporis Vnctio enim illa non beatae illi incorrupt in natura dei man enti natiuitati profecit sed sanctificationi hominis assumpti Nam in Actis ait Petrus vnxit illum Deus in spiritu sancto virtute Thus he meaneth in English God etien thy God hath anointed thee with the oile of ioy farre aboue thy copartners not in anie other meaning but according to the dispensation of a bodie receaued For that vnction could not be beneficiall to the holie vnspotted and euerlasting natiuitie in the nature of his Godhead but onelie it was agreeable to the mysterie of his manhood and flesh assumpted in his temporal natiuitie whereof Saint Peter speaketh in the Actes that God hath annointed him with the holie ghost and with power The holie Father also Saint Cyrill agreeth hereunto confessing that all this honour power and authoritie which the Prophets haue signified so long before by the annointing of the sonne of God came vnto Christ in consideration
life the same should stand in force before God FVLKE Our sauiour Christ in this place doth first of all authorize his Apostles to execute the office of publike preaching of the Gospell in all the world vnto the which he had before chosen appointed them Then doth he furnish them with giftes of the holie Ghost meete for so high and painfull a calling last of all he ratifieth the effect of their ministerie to be accomplished in the remission of the sinnes of all them that beleeue their preaching and in the retaining of their sinnes that do not obey the voice of the Gospell to beleeue it For the power of remitting sinnes must not be separated from the office of teaching whereunto it is annexed by our sauiour Christ who doth not giue his Apostles authoritie to remit sinnes so that he would transferre into them anie thing that is proper vnto him-selfe For it is proper to him to remit sinnes which honour so farre forth as it pertaineth to his onelie person he doth not resigne to his Apostles but commaundeth them in his name to testifie the forgiuenes of sinnes that he might reconcile men to God by their ministerie For I haue shewed before in the words of S. Hilarie that to speake properlie God onelie by men remitteth sinnes not following the sentence of man but man following the iudgement of God which is to pardon all penitent sinners and to retaine the sinnes of vnbeleeuers vnto eternall condemnation Therefore it is much more then the place doth afforde that you affirme the iudgement and rule of our soules with al authoritie in correcting our sinnes in most expresse and effectuall tearmes and in moste ample manner is giuen to the Apostles and their successors in this place For Christ in this place doth constitute Apostles and not Iudges messengers and declarers of his good pleasure and will vnto men not rulers of mens soules he giueth them power to remit or retaine sinnes in his name to the inestimable comfort of all penitent sinners and to the terrour and in crease of damnation of all vnbeleeuers he giueth them not al authoritie and that in moste ample manner in correcting our sinnes neither are there in the place anie expresse or effectual tearmes our of which such omnipotent authoritie can be concluded as afterward when we come to your syllogisme we shall platnlie declare Againe there is no mention in the text of anie iurisdiction communicated vnto them but of the office of teaching whereunto Christ was sent for a time which he committeth to his Apostles and their successours For these wordes of our sauiour As my father hrth sent me I also do send you can not be enlarged generallie to all such purposes as God sent Christ but must be vnderstood according to the matter he speaketh of that is of the office of Preaching teaching which Christ at that time did cease to execute in his humanitie remaining yet still the onelie doctor and teacher of his Church because he is author of the doctrine that is taught and by his holie spirit teacheth continually in giuing effect to the labours of his Apostles Euangelists Prophets Pastours teach ers which he hath giuen vnto his Church for the external ministerie of instructing the same in al truth necessarie to the eternall saluation of his elect He substituteth therfore his Apostles in that necessarie office of preaching the Gospell he enableth them by his spirit which he testifieth vntothem by an holy signe to proceed from him He maketh an assured promis that they should not labour in vaine but that in pardoning retaining sinnes according to the doctrine of his Gospel whatsoeuer they did should stand in force before God ALLEN What dignitie could euer be giuen more in what tearmes more plain by what order more honourable for surelie if either Christ could remit sinnes as we haue at large prooued that he could by commission and sending of his father or if the holie spirit of God maie remit sinnes or if Christes word will procure man anie power to remit sinnes then vndoubtedlie maie the Apostles remit sinnes For they haue the expresse warrant of them all Much said Paul when he affirmed in the Apostles name and person of all Priestes Quòd 〈◊〉 erat in Christo mundum reconcilians sibi posuit in nobis verbum reconciliationis Pro Christo ergo legatione fungimur That God was in Christ reconciling the world to him selfe and hath put in vs the word of reconcilement therfore our calling is to serue as an Embasy in Christes owne stead These wordes be of great waight and exceedinglie set forth the vocation of the spirituall gouernours as of those that holde by the warrant of Gods sending and thereby occupie Christes owne roome Marie the place for all that appertaineth to their calling generallie as wel to preach as otherwise to guide the people of God in the behalfe of their Master to whome we al be subiect but this present text whereupon we now treat doth properlie concerne the commission giuen to the Apostles for the sacrament of penance and remission of sinnes For it doth in moste cleere and vndoubted sense giue to them the like right in that case that Christ him selfe had by the sending of God the father that is to saie the very same authority that he had in respect of his mediation and manhoode A Equalem patri filium nouimus saith Saint Augustine sed bîc verba Mediatoris agnoscimus medium quippe se ostendit dicendo ille me ego vus We know the sonne to be equall with the father but here we must acknowledge the wordes of a mediator For he shewed him selfe to be as a meane when he said He sent me and I send you That is to saie as Theophilact expoundeth it Take vpon you my worke and function and doe it with confidence For as my father did send me so I send you againe and I will be with you to the ende of the worlde FVLKE There is no dout but the Apostles had power to remit sins but yet for al your thetorical interrogations none other then I haue expressed before nor greater then may stand with the glory of Christ who maketh not men equal with him when he authorizeth them as his seruants to be ministers of his mysteries and stewardes of his gracious giftes And Paul trulie said much when he affirmed that god was in Christ recōciling the world to himselfe not imputing to them their offences which clause I know not why you haue omitted hath put in vs that word of recōciliation We are therfore embassadours for Christ c. For he said that it is proper to god to reconcile the world to forgiue sins or not to impute them that is but a ministery of reconciliation which he hath geuen vnto men she weth how this ministerie is executed namely by preaching reconciliation as the embassadours of God to desire men to be reconciled vnto God
otherwise but in his right name whosoeuer shall controlle or cōremne they not onely irreuerently touch gods annointed but they sacrilegiously laie handes on ipsum Christum Domini euen on him that is annointed aboue all his fellowes Well I conclud vp this matter with these few wordes of Saint Ambrose Vult Dominus plurimum posse discipulos suos Vult á seruis suis e a fieri in nominesuo quaefaciebat ipse positus in terris Our lordes pleasure is that his disciples should haue great prerogatiue he will haue the same thinges wrought by his seruants in his name that him-selfe did in his owne person when he was in earth FVLKE He that seeth not the difference of the ministerie of man from the power of God in those actions wherein God worketh by man gropeth in the darke seeth nothing as he ought to see Therefore let vs come to the light of your logick and thereby consider if we can the distinction of the one from the other If the maior or first proposition of your former syllogisme be vnderstood of a power or commission graunted to the manhood of Christ such as might haue beene graunted by God to anie other meere man then your Minor is not true that Christ by such a power and commission onelie setting his Godhead aside though truelie and effectuallie yet not in proper forme ofspeach by his fathers sending and commission remitted sinnes for then could he not be the author of remission of sinnes but onelie a minister thereof and therefore in proper forme ofspeach he could not be said to forgiue sinnes which is proper onely to god but to preach the forgiue nes of sinnes in Gods name or to testifie that God did forgiue sinnes as the ministers of the Church do Butif the Maior be vnderstood of such power commission as was giuen to Christ as the Mediator in respect of his manhood but yet such as he couldnot receiue exercise but in respect of his godhead such as could not be graunted to any but vnto that person which is God man such is the absolute principall power of remission of sinnes then I denie that such power was giuen to the Apostles at his departure For when Christ him-selfe did truelie effectuallie and in proper forme of speech remit sinnes he did it as God hauing equal and principall authoritie with the father and the holie ghost so to do The conclusion of your second syllogisme I graunt that the Apostles were sent to forgiue sinnes but retaining the former distinction of the authoritie of God and the ministerie of man For as Christ was sent of his father to preach the remission of sinnes so were the Apostles sent by Christ to preach remission of sinnes therefore such power as he had by preaching onely of remission of sinnes to forgiue sinnes such power be graunted to his Apostles whome he ordained preachers in his place but the proper pow er of his deity he graunted not nor any power which is proper to the person of the Mediator God and man Theresore these wordes of Christ As the father sent me so send I you must not be extended further then our sauiour Christ in that place meaneth For els infinite absurdities might be concluded thereof as that he sent his Apostles to redeeme the world to die for the sinnes of the world to be sauiours of the world c. or that he sendeth all ministers of the Church to whome this commission extendeth to clense leapers to raise the dead to giue sight to the blinde and to do all other miracles that he was sent to do According to this distinction that Rhetoricall amplification of Chrisostome is to be vnderstood and doubtles wonderfull great is the authoritie that man doth exercise in the name of God although that which is peculiar to God be not attributed to men The similitude that Chrysostome vseth in the same chapter Lib. 3. cap. 5. of a King graunting power to one of his subiects to imprison men and to release them sheweth that he knew the difference of the Lord from the seruant who if he abuse the authoritie committed vnto him deserueth sharpe punishment and therefore hath not absolute authoritie to do all things as his Lord and can not transgresse in doing And in the next Chapter he sheweth that Priestes do exercise this power of forgiuing sinnes by teaching admonition and by praier Not onelie by teaching and admonishing but also by the helpe of praiers and a manifest difference sheweth Saint Ambrose when he saith Christ would haue his disciples to do in his name the same thinges which he did on earth partlie in his fathers name and partlie in his owne name The power of priesthood touching remission of sinnes prooued by the solemne action of Christ in breathing vpon his Apostles and giuing them thereby the holie Ghost THE THIRD CHAP. ALLEN THe commission and power that our Master Christ receiued of his euerlasting father being in moste ample manner communicated with the Apostles made great proofe and euidence for the right that they claime in remission of sinnes but the present power of Gods spirit breathed by Christ vpon them and giuen vnto them for the ministerie and execution of that function helpeth our matter so much that whoso euer now denieth this authoritie of the Apostles concerning the pardoning of our offences doth not so much sinne against the sonne of man which of it selfe is greeuous inough as he doth controll the worke of the spirit of Christ which is the holie Ghost in whome both he and his Church doth remit sinnes The more plaine and more exact our master Christ was in the bestowing of that power to remit and retaine sinnes the more is our contempt in the disobedience and deniall thereof He sendeth them 〈◊〉 with his owne authoritie in this case he giueth them the verie spirit of God by whose diuine power they maie execute the function to which he called them he giueth them the expresse warrant of his owne word that sinnes they might pardon and punish and yet we make doubt of their vsurpation But how they might forgiue sinnes by Christes sending we haue alreadie said Now for the holie Ghostes power and prerogatiue in the same action which was breathed on the Apostles we must further conferre with such as call in question matters so plaine And first I am in goodhope that no man will denie but Christ gaue them the holie ghost for no other purpose so much as to remit sinnes Secondlie I doubt not of their faith and beliese in this point but they will confesse the holie ghost to be of power by nature and proprietie to forgiue sinnes Thirdlie I claime of their sinceritie thus much more that Christ being as well God as man was well able for the furniture of their calling to giue them the holie ghost all which being confessed of all men and denied of no Christian aline how the conclusion so beset with all
proofe on euerie side standeth not let the aduersaries tell me In the Apostles there can be no lack touching that officie for the execution whereof they receaued both Christes commission first and the holie spirit of God afterwarde In Christ there can be no default who was well able to giue and in deade did giue the holie ghost In the holie ghost there can be no let nor lacke whose power is infinie and his verie proprietie to remit sinnes All thinges then standing on so safe and sure groundes the giuer the gift and the receiuer competent and fullie answereable each to other on euerie side let the discontented ioyne in argument let him alledge why the Priests so authorized by Christ and so assured of the holie Ghost maie not either pardon or forgiue penance Neuer man auouched that he exercised the high action vpon his owne authoritie but that he maie not as a minister and seruant practize it vpon the warrant of Christ and present power of the holie Ghost that no faithfull person can affirme nor anie reasonable man stand in FVLKE The commission that our sauiour Christ receiued in his manhood to preach remission of sinnes was by him committed to his Apostles but in such ample manner as Christ had power to remit sinnes it is not prooued that Christ did communicate the same with his Apostles The visible signe of breathing by which our sauiour Christ testified that he did giue them the holie Ghost declareth that they were enabled with spirituall giftes to exercise their function the chiefe and principall end whereof was to pronounce in his name remission of sinnes to the beleeuers of the Gospell and condemnation to the contemners And this authoritie of the Apostles concerning the pardoning of our offences I know no man that denieth And therefore you spend vainlie the one halfe of your booke'in proouing that which no man doth denie namely that the Apostles and their lawful succesiours had and haue power by Christes graunt to remitte or to retaine sinnes The matters in question are these 1. Whither Popish Priestes be the lawful successours of the Apostles 2. What manner of power is this which is graunted and thirdly How it is to be exercised by Preaching the gospell or by Popish absolution and pardons For we denie your shauelings for the most part vnlearned to be the Priests or elders of the Church of god towhome this power is deriued from the Apostles we denie an absolute power to be graunted but a ministerie of testification and assurance of that which God onelie doth properlie and principallie Thirdly we deny that by Popish shrift absolution and pardons this power is to be exercised but by preaching of the Gospell whereunto are annexed the sacraments as seales of the doctrine These questions would haue beene directlie handled without such a tedious discourse to prooue confuselie the power that is graunted by Christ to his Apostles which is not denied but the kinde of power about which you wander vncertainly somtimes making it to be a meere ministery seruice vnder god the onelie worker therein sometime more then obscurelie insinuating that it is the verie same authoritie and none other but the same which Christ did exercise vpon earth and now hath committed it ouer or communicated it to Priestes as though he were bound to stand to their sentence in remitting or retaining sinnes or that they might remit as well as he and he must accept whatsoeuer they do in that case But seeing you wil not go directlie to worke we must follow you in your crooked path as well as we maie And for the first part of your conference where you are in good hope that no man wil deny but Christ gaue them the holy ghost for no other purpose so much as to remit sinnes I must say vnto you for my parte that forasmuch as remission of sinnes is the principall scope of preaching the Gospel they were indued with giftes of the holie ghost especially to call men to repentance forgiuenes of sinnes and to assure the repentant and beleeuers of the remission of sinnes by that authoritie and commission which they receaued of Christ. But if you meane that Christ gaue them the holie ghost for no other purpose so much as that they should heare mens shrift and giue them absolution in such forme of wordes as your Popish Priests do vse without preaching the gospell to them and setting forth the grace of god in Iesus Christ I denie that they receaued the holy ghost for any such purpose The other two partes I graunt but I know not what is your conclusion If you wil conclude that they haue power to remit sinnes I graunt it neither do I know anie man that denyeth it But if you meane to conclude thus because the holy Ghost which was giuen to the Apostles is of power by nature proprietie to forgiue sins therefore the Apostles did as properlie forgiue sins as god himselfe I denie your consequence And it seemeth you meane such a matter when you saie In the holie Ghost there can be no let nor lacke whose power is infinite and his verie propertie to remit sinnes which is verie true but yet it followeth not thereof that whosoeuer is endued with the holie Ghost hath infinite power and maie properlie remit sinnes For the holie Ghost is giuen in measure to all men not that his substance is diuisible that it maie be apportionated but that his gifts are distributed by him selfe in such measure as the wisdome of God seeth to be moste conuenient His essence is infinit and incomprehensible but he is said in Scripture to be present with them or in them on whome he bestoweth his graces and giftes Therefore I see not what consequence can be made of the holy ghostes infinit power and verie propertie to remit sins to conclude that the Apostles which receiued the holie Ghost rereiued infinite power or the verie propertie to remitre sinnes Where you will the discontented to ioyne in argument why the Priest so authorized by Christ and so assured of the holy Ghost may not either pardon or giue penance Thus I ioyne with you For remitting of sinnes I see authoritie but for giuing of penance none therefore I graunt the former and denie the latter For if by penance true repentance be vnderstood god onelie can giue repentance who onelie can turne the heart of man to feare him If you meane popish penance that is enioyning of satisfactorie works or punishment I denie that it is mentioned in the scriptures neither can it be contained in retaining of sinne Where you saie that neuer man aduouched that high action vpon his owne authoritie it is vntrue for Antichrist that lifteth him-selfe to be equall with God and Christ auoucheth vpon his owne authoritie although to cloke his manifest impietie that he might deceiue the simple he pretendeth the name authoritie of God Christ. But that the Apostles and their true successours by the
holie ghost was God by whose authoritie and proper power they did alwaies since Christs word was spoken remitte the same The which beeing true as it cannot be false that is so agreeable both to scriptures and to all our fathers faith the heresy of our time must needes directly impugne the vertue and power of Gods owne spirit For as the proofe of mans ministerie in this foresaid function induceth the true and euerlasting Godhead of the holy ghost by whome they practize that power so the denial thereof and robberie of priesthoode of this their moste iust claime doth directlie spoile God of his honour and of the euerlasting right that he hath in remission of sinnes So whiles these goodmen seeke to abase man vniustlie they blaspheme God highlie and together with mans ministerie they bring vnto vtter contempt Gods owne authoritie FVLKE Your deifying of popish priests doth altogether weaken the force of that argument which our fathers vsed against the auncient heretikes to prooue the diuinitie of the holie Ghost For it were an easie matter for Eunomius Macedonius or anie other heretike that was against his godhead to replie that by ministerie of God the holie Ghost might as properlie forgiue sinnes as Priestes do by the ministerie of Christ and of the holie ghost yea so farre forth as thereby they are made halfe Gods yea deified and made Gods in deede But you vtter repugnancie when you saie that by Gods authoritie and proper power Priestes do forgiue sinnes Where you make it not proper to God which is common to others with him Therefore you should speake more properlie to saie that God the holy ghost by his owne authoritie and power proper to the deitie doth forgiue sinnes in their ministery men thereto authorized do no more in proper speach and sense but testifie and declare what God doth for which declaration and testification seeing they are the embassadours and messengers of God vnto the world to declare his pleasure of reconciliation or condemnation they are said to forgiue sinnes or to retaine them which they do not properlie but pronounce the sentence of God concerning the remission or retention of mens sinnes And that this was the meaning of the Auncient fathers concerning the authoritie and power of Gods ministers it is moste manifest by this argument whereby they choke the enuier of the holie ghostes diuinitie from which you cutte of all the sinnewes and force it hath to prooue it when you communicate to men that which is proper to God and aduance men aboue the nature of meere men when you deifie their persons by meanes of the giftes of the holie Ghost giuen to them and make them of abilitie to exercise the proper workes of God As for the deniall and robberie that you ascribe I can not tell to what heretikes of this time we detest as much as ye not seeking to abase man beneath the nature and condition of man norseeking to extoll him by robbing God of his glorie and proper effects to magnifie menne to deifie the persoas of men as you do in plaine termes Whereby it is manifest we are as far from blaspheming god or making mans ministerie contemptible which he exerciseth in the name of God as you are from sobrietie thus to iudge if your meaning be of vs or thus to reason if you would defend the argument of the auncient fathers against the auncient heretikes ALLEN But for the readersease and more light of our cause I ioyne thus in argument with them againe vpon the second part of Christes owne wordes and action had in the authorizing of his Apostles Whatsoeuer the holie Ghost maie doe in this case by the proper power of his Godhead that may the Apostles and Priestcs do by seruice and ministerie through the power of the holie Ghost But the holie Ghost properlie and rightlie doth remit sinnes Therefore the Apostles doe rightlie remit sinnes by their ministerie in the said holie Ghost All partes of this conclusion stand vpright and feare no falsehood they be guarded on euerie side by Christes action by wordes of scripture by the Doctors plain warrant and by all reason With all which whosoeuer is not contented but will needes extinguere spiritum extinguish Gods spirit and violentlie take from the Church the greatest comfort of all mans life that in this infirmitie of our flesh standeth in moste hope by his gift in remission of sinnes for which especiall cause the said spirit was mercifullie breathed vpon the Apostles peculiarly before the mare common sending of the same from heauen aboue If all this reason and iust demonstration of trueth will not serue them I will charge them with this graue conclusion of S. Augustine vttered partlie against the Nouatians especallie against the desperate that would not seeke for Gods mercie by the Churches ministerie in the sacrament of penance To be briefe I will speake it in English Whosoeuer he be that beleeueth no mans sinnes to be remitted in Gods Church and therefore despiseth the bountifulnes of God inso mightie a worke if he in that obstinate minde continue til his liues end he is guiltie of sinne against the holie Ghost in which holy ghost Christ remitteth sinnes FVLKE I doe greatlie commend you that you haue such regard of the readers ease and it seemeth you haue good confidence of your cause that you flie not the light of Logicall iudgement by which the trueth shall more plainelie appeere to all sortes of men then by anie discourses at large vnder which many great errors may be often couered vnder sophistical cloudes ambiguity of words which in a briefe syllogisme is soone and easilie espied To answere your argument therefore First I distinguish of your Maior for if you meane by seruice and ministerie the expressing and declaring of the will and pleasure of the holy ghost wherunto they are authorized I acknowledge your Maior proposition to be true whatsoeuer the holie Ghost maie doe in this case by the proper power of his godhead that maie the Apostles and Priestes doe by seruice ministerie through the power of the holie Ghost But if you meane by seruice and ministerie that the proper power of God is communicated to men I denie your Maior as false and absurde For the Apostles and Priests maie not by seruice and ministerie through the power of the holie Ghost forgiue sinnes properlie which the holie ghost by proper power of his godhead may doe for this is a proper power not com municable vnto any creature but a declaration of the will of him that hath such power is the ministeriall authoritie by which men forgiue sinnes Secondlie I answere that your conclusion is deceitfull For your Minor Extreame or Assumption is not perfectlie ioyned with your Maior or Proposition in the conclusion For your Minor is that the holie ghost properly rightlie doth remit sinnes So your conclusion should be therefore the Apostles properlie and rightlie doe remit sinnes by their ministerie
in stead of which word properlie you craftelie conueigh in the worde truelie so your wholl syllogisme is a paralogisme and may lawfully be denied Notwithstanding your conclusion as it is we do graunt that the Apostles do rightlie and truely remit sinnes by their ministery in the holie ghost but as it should be inferred vpon your premises we denie it which cannot be gathered but vpon a false Maior Whatsoeuer the holie ghost may doe properlie in remitting sinnes the Apostles may do by ministerie as properlie As for the comfort of mans life taken away by denying sinnes to be properlie forgiuen by Priestes is a fond cauill and meere slaunder For we acknowledge it a singular comfort of mans life that God hath appointed men by their ministerie to assure vs of his fauour and reconciliation in the remission of oursins And we beleeue with Saint Augustine that sinnes are forgiuen in Gods Church vpon earth acknowledgeing the bountefullnes of God in so mightie a worke anathematizing and detesting the Nouatians and all other heretikes that obstinatelie and willfullie mainteine the contrarie The power to remit sinnes is further prooued to be giuen to the Apostles by these wordes of Christ Whose sinnes you do forgiue c. by the Doctors exposition of the same and by conference of other wordes of scripture of the like sense THE FOVRTH CHAP. ALLEN HOw the priestes of Christes Church haue defended this right and calling for remission of sinnes as wel by the commission that Christ first receiued of his father and afterward bestowed vpon them as by the assured receiuing of the spi rit of god from Christes blessed breath to the same and purpose I haue hitherto declared at large Now the third part of the place before alledged out of S. Iohns gospel concerneth the words of Christes promis and warrant made vnto his Apostles out of which wordes distinctly vttered we must see what force may be further added vnto our Catholike assertion for the pristes autho rity to remit and retaine sinnes And surely if none of the former wordes of commission nor any other mean or mention had beene made of the holy ghostes assistaunce herein these onlie woordes vpon the credit that faithful men owe to Christ had bin sufficient to haue assured the world of the authoritie of priesthood of the wholl cause that now is called in controuersie For what can be said either of god or man more properlie or more playnlie then this whose sinnes you shal forgiue they be forgiuen whose sinnes you shal retaine they be retained I must needes heree complaine of these vnfaithful and vnhappie times that in the continuall lothsome bragges of the scripture and Gods word in perpetuall tossing and tumbling of the booke of the Bible in endlesse contention and disputation of most high mysteries in them contained haue wholie conuerted the cleerest and onely vndoubted meaning of such places specially as moste touch the verie life and saluation of all mankinde and which be of all other thinges in termes of scripture most open and euident sull foolishlie and vnlearnedlie haue both the simple sort handled Gods word as in such grosse ignorance of al thinges they needes must and their new procured Masters also in not much more knowledge and farre passing pride can not otherwise do but whilest they plaie them selues in things of smaler importance they are to be laughed at rather then lamented but if the deuil driue them farther as he lightlie doth wherere he se quietlie possesseth and cause them to dallie and delude the places of scripture that principally concerne the state and saluation of vs al then we must with al force resist lest we leese the fruite and good of our Christianitie What can be of higher importance in the world or touch our soules and saluation so neere as the holie sacraments of Christ Church by which grace and mercy through gods appointment be procured yet these blessed fountains especiallie euen these waters springing euerlastingly to our life and comfort haue these men most infected FVLKE You fare as though we denied all power of remitting or retaining of sinnes whereas we do moste gladlie imbrace all such power as Christ hath giuen vs which we must so take as it be not dishonourable to the godhead that man should exercise that which is proper to God him-selfe The power therefore we graunt but what manner of power this is we must inquire whether an absolute power for priests at their pleasure as you speake afterward in this Chapter to forgiue sinnes properlie or a power to declare the same to be forgiuen according to the pleasure of God to them that repent and beleeue the Gospell and also whether this power is to be exercised by preaching the Ghospel or by auricular confession You spend manie words therefore in vaine to prooue the power and authoritie whereof we stand in no controuersie with you but what manner of power this is and by what meanes it is to be exercised As for the lothsome bragges of the scripture and Gods word in perpetuall tossing and tumbling of the bookes of the Bible doe argue that you complaine of sauoreth not of the spirit of Christ which willeth the scriptures to be searched as those which beare witnes of him To glory in the truth of Gods word contained in his holie scriptures is no vaine bragging but such as Christians ought moste of all to delight in The rest of your railing I passe ouer as vnworthie anie answere when whatsoeuer you prate in generall shal be founde false in speciall when you come to prooue the particulers ALLEN In the institution of Sacraments Christs wordes were euer plaine without colour or figure as wordes that worke with singular efficacie grace and vertue and therewith giue to the ministers iust authoritie for the execution of Christes meaning which could not be done in figuratiue speaches and parables without infinit error Did God speake parables when he instituted the solemnitie of so manie sacrifices in the olde lawe when he signified vnto Moses and Aaron euerie seuerall sorte of beast or creature with their sexe kind all the ceremonie thereunto belonging Did he speake parables when the sacrament of the lambe was to be instituted Did he speake by figure to Abraham when he commaunded him to circumcise the male of euerie of his people Did he speake by figure when he instituted the Sabbath Did he to be breefe euer in the olde lawe speake one thing and meane another when anie externall worke by the charge of his worde was to be practized for euer amongest the people In common speach in prophecying in preaching in similitudes in examples vttered for the declaration of manie thinges and for grace and varietie of talke to stirre vp mans industrie in searching the secretes of the trueth there figures of all sortes be vsed but where by externall wordes and actions force of inward grace must be procured or perpetuall vsages in the Church are
truelie forgiue sinnes it is graunted but not that they doe properlie forgiue sinnes beeing but Gods seruants appointed to declare his forgiuenes Secondly your Minor bringeth in a fourth tearme Claue non errante beside that it is ambiguous that you saie Gods pardon followeth the preists pardon for if by following you meane succeading later in time or depending vpon the priests pardon your Minor is false wtih Claue non errante if you meane as I haue explicated in your Maior the worde ensueth it is true Last of all your conclusion ioyneth not your two extreames together as it ought to doe but leaueth out the worde which is of most importance and question among vs namelie this tearme Properlie For you should couclude that Priestes doe truelie and properlie remit sinnes which in respect of the worde properlie is false But as you set it downe with the worde assuredlie it is graunted For we acknowledge that the lawfull minister elder or priest of the Church doth truelie and assuredlie remit sinnes but yet not properlie So you misse the cushion and make a shew in your Maior as though you would reason directlie but in your Minor you giue backe with Claue non errante in your conclusion you fly quite from the question Where you interpret your Minor so that God in the same instant forgiueth in heauen you rid vs of one doubt of the posteritie in time But where you saie out of Saint Hilarie that mans sentence shall be as a sentence preiudiciall to God in heauen you giue vs to vnderstand that Gods sentence dependeth vpon mans sentence which is horrible blasphemie neither doe I beleeue that you are able to shew any such saying of Saint Hilarie for out of the places before alledged there is no such thinge to be seene or gathered That the same power of remitting and reteining sinnes which was giuen to the Apostles was nor bestowed on them in respect of their priuate persons but as they were publike officers and that therefore the like authoritie is committed by Christes graunt to all Priestes of Christes Church whoe in this matter are the Apostles successours THE FIFT CHAP. IF I had here to doe onelie with the learned it were enough that is alreadie prooued for the power preheminence giuen to the Apostles in remission of sinnes thereupon to ground most assuredlie the like right in the same cause to perteine to all Bishoppes and priestes of Christes Church But we studie to helpe such as cannot by this so farre consider that the power giuen to his Apostles or to any of them is one eternall power not ceasing in their persons but during in their succession to the worlds ende For I haue my selfe met with many such as could be content as they saide to acknowledge vpon so plaine scripture the singular priuiledge giuen to the Apostles and thereupon if they might haue had an Apostle they would not haue sticked to haue made there confession and sute to him for the remission of their sinnes but because I had not the like wordes of Christ spoken to all priests particularlie they thought it was no reason that any such challenge should be made for them nor any such charge to be giuen to others to confesse their sinnes vnto them This simplicitie of the common sorte or rather this rude frowardnes rising vpon contempt and disobedience to Gods Church is mainteined euen of the more learned sort whoe haue charged them-selues in all behauiour to be so populare and so plausible that euen against knowne order of things they will drawe backe from the light of the trueth with the common rude and vnlearned reasons of the people For Iohn Caluine a man borne to sedition and the Churches calamitie mainteineth the madnes of the multitude by this reason The Apostles saith he had the holy ghost whereof our priests haue no warrant But enquire of them whether they haue the holie ghost if they saie yea demaund of them further whether the holie Ghost may erre if they confesse that the holy ghost can not erre then they prooue themselues not to haue the holie Ghost because it is well seene that they may erre and doe erre both in loosing and binding many otherwise then Gods sentence will allow But brieflie to satisfie all sides in this case I shall declare the like power to be left by Christes meaning to al Bispopes and priests no lesse then to the Apostles them-selues to whome Christ then presentlie spake that both the peoples lacke of vnderstanding may be corrected and the false and craftie conueiance of their captaine may be to his shame and the diuells plainlie disclosed FVLKE It seemeth that those which you met with which would not acknowledge the same power to be in the ministers of the Church that was in the Apostles concerning remitting of sinnes were some of your owne chickens whome ignorance the mother of Popish deuotion had blooded vp in such phantasticall and soolish errors But least you should seeme to fight onelie with the simple sorte you saie the same opinion is vpon popularitie and plausibilitie mainteined euen of the more learned sort yea of Iohn Caluine him-selfe but you dare not set downe where or in which of his writings lest your impudencie should be manifestlie conuinced In deede Instit. lib. 3. Cap. 4. Sect. 20. he denieth that ignorant Popish confessours or shrift priests haue the power of the keyes which are voide of the spirit of God that is of the giftes of the holie ghost that they may know who me to binde whome to loose but he acknowledgeth the power of remitting sinnes to be perpetuall in the true preachers and faithfull ministers of the Ghospell And therefore you take needelesse paines to prooue this matter against him vnles you will take vpon you to defend the ignorance of your priesthoode and answere the arguments that he bringeth against it ALLEN First this is plaine that whatsoeuer Christ after his resurrection or before did institute for the commoditie of the people and weale of the wholl Church that did not decaie in the persons of them to whome Christ presentlie spake the wordes for ells all sacraments had beene ended and all gouernment ceased at the death of them to whome in person that charge was first giuen by Christ. For example Christ in his institution of the holie Sacrament of the altar spake onelie to his twelue to those present persons he onelie said presently hoc facite do this yet in their persons the Church was so instructed and all priests so authorized that the same soueraigne worke hath vpon that warrant beene truelie practized of the Church and by vaine imitation followed by their aduersaries euen till this daie And in deede the verie wordes of the instruction did importe no lesse for it is said Mortem Domini annunciabitis donec 〈◊〉 You shall set forth Christes death till his comming which could not be if the ministerie had decayed with their persons to whome Christ
gratia gratum faciens such a grace as maketh a man acceptable to God Therefore the holie Ghost breathed vpon the Apostles then by Christ and giuen yet to Priests in their ordering by Bishopes is a gift of God and a grace of the holy ghost not whereby man is made rertuous or cunning or happie before God but it is a gift onelie of God whereby man is called aboue his owne nature and dignitie to haue power and authoritie to doe and exercise anie function in Gods Church to the spirituall benefit of the people which is not onelie not alwaies ioyned to vertue and holie knowledge but it full often by calling due to them which are moste wicked persons without anie impaire of their authoritie And these kinde of giftes and graces of the holie Ghost be called gratiae gratis datae certaine giftes giuen to men for no desertes of their persons but freelie for the vse of other men to whome they be beneficiall euen there where they be hurtfull to the bestowers In which sense Saint Paule numbreth a great sorte in the fourth to the Ephesians and the first Epistle to the Corinshians and he calleth them not onelie the graces of the spirite but also the diuisions of functions and ministrations as the gift of working of miracles the gift of tongues the gift of prophecying the gift of preaching and so foorth all which being the giftes and graces of the spirit for the Churches edifying and of Saint Peter being called the holy Ghost in the Actes yet they were giuen to euill men often as well as to good without all imparing of Gods honoure yea with the great encrease of God glorie that euen by the wicked is able to worke his wil and holie purpose for the benefit of his Elect. And in this sense the spirite of God breathed vpon the Apostles was a gift of the holie Ghost whereby man should remit by lawfull power the sinnes of the people Whereupon Theophilact sayeth that Potestatem quandam donum spirituale dedit Apostolis vs remittant peccata ostendens quod genus spiritualium donorum eis dederit inquit quorum remiser it is peccata remittuntur eis that is to saie Christ gaue to his Apostles a certaine power and spirituall gift whereby they might remit sins for he shewed what power of the spirit it was that breathed on them when he said whose sinnes you doe for giue they be forgiuen Whosoeuer shall vndoubtedlie remit sinnes and absolue sinners must haue the same gift of the holie Ghost which the Apostles had whereby he cannot erre And this gift no man denieth but it maie be in a wicked and vngodlie man For euen such an one may preach the doctrine of Christ of remission of sinnes publikelie and priuatlie if he haue the calling that is required to that office Neither doth Caluine or any other that are of his iudgement otherwise require the like force of the holie ghostes assistance in al men that take vpon them to remit sinnes For there is not onelie a power but a knowledge required in him that shall assuredlie and vndoubtedlie forgiue sinnes And therefore the papistes doe vnreasonably make a diuorse of the keie of power from the keie of knowledge which power if it be no guided by knowledge doth nothing but insteade of opening and shutting with the keies committed to the Church throw forth the keies as the blinde man casteth his staffe which cannot happen so right in to the locke that they should open it to the penitent sinners For it is not the Priestes authoritie that can open the dore of comforte to a sinners conscience except he can declare vnto him out of the word of God how and by what meanes he maie be reconciled vnto God That the holie Ghost is giuen by Bishopes to Priestes in their ordering it is more boldlie affirmed then euer it can be prooued for Christ onelie hath authoritie to giue the holy Ghost and therefore to declare that it commeth from him alone among men he breathed vpon his Apostles which though the Bishops doe vntill their longues ake yet can they not furnish their parties by them ordered with giftes meet for their calling as Christ did his Apostles They must make choise therefore according to the Doctrine of the Apostle of those that haue those gratious and necessarie giftes of God before and to them they must commit the power and authoritie to exercise the same to the publike benefice of the Church But if they wil giue authoritie to them that haue no wisdome to exercise the same they make the most foolish iudges of all the world and such are worthelie contemned Therefore howsoeuer you distinguish grace you must not seeke to winne credit to them which haue nothing but pretense of authoritie when they be voide of all vnderstanding how to vse it as manie hundreds yea thousandes of your hedge Priests are if their calling were neuer so good as it is moste corrupt and vnlawfull ALLEN If our aduersaries be ignorant of these thinges which be so common in schooles of diuinitie yet we think they should remember that Saint Paul did not dissalow the authoritie nor power of preaching in such as were euil men and taught for emulation and not of sincere zeale of the Gospell and that Christ him-selfe stopped not such as cast out deuilles in his name and therefore were not without the gifte of workeing miracles though he professed that manie of them at the date of iudgement challenging some right of heauen vpou that acte should not be receiued to glory how the gift of prophecy was common in the olde 〈◊〉 not onelie to the wicked but to such as willinglie would deceiue the people And Caiphas he prophecied by the spirit of God as by force of his office being yet in purpose to worke wickednes against Christ himselfe for whose trueth he then by force of the spirit prophecied But of the Sacramentes of Gods Church euerie one that they may beministred beneficiallie to the receiuing in much wickednes of the giuer there is no man can be ignorant For it is a rule and a principle moste certaine that God worketh his will in them by the ministerie of men be they neuer so euill For elle they were mans sacraments and not Gods and we could not be certaine neither of our baptisme neither of right receiuing of Christes bodie in the holie sacrament of his eultar nor of any other spirituall benefit that we now by mans ministery receiue in the Church Much cōsort it were for al Christian people to hauesuch 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 then soules and such disposers of Gods mysteries as would could in all sinceritie and faithfulnes worke Gods 〈◊〉 and that would alwaies vse the high power giuen them to 〈◊〉 and neuer to destroie and that they would so doe both S. Peter and S. Paule doe often exhort them But neither the miserie of mans sinsull nature can suffer that nor our wickednes can
the Church imbaryed from the vse and exercise of that office of remitting sinnes and such other the like spirituall functions FVLKE That the lacke of the fruit of any sacrament is most commmonlie in the receiuer rather then in the insufficiencie of the minister it prooueth that the minister doth not properlie giue the effect of the sacraments but the outwarde seales thereof as Saint Iohn Baptist doth moste wiselie distinguish them saying I baptize with water but he that commeth after me shall baptize with the holie ghost and with fire Saint Basill in the place by you quoted saying that the power of remitting of sinnes is not giuen absolutelie but in the obedience of him that repenteth c. declareth what manner of power this is contrarie to that you haue hetherto for the moste part maintained As also that he sayeth within few wordes after that the new testament doth promise remission of all sinnes to them that worthely repent he concludeth plainlie against your long discourse wherin you would haue it seeme as though the priest had absolute power of remitting and not an authoritie of declaring the sentence of God concerning such And Saint Cyprian or whoesoeuer is author of that worke De cardinalibus Christi operibus confirmeth that which I saide that the minister doth not properlie giue the effects of the sacrament but onelie the outwarde seales thereof as Iohn Baptist doth testifie His whol sentence I will repeate because you haue not so fullie set it downe not so truelie translated it Veniebat Christus ad Baptismum non egens lauacro in quo peccatum non erat sed vt sacramento perennis daretur autoritas tanti virtutem operis nulla personarum acceptio commendaret quoniam remissio peccaterum siue per Baptismum siue per alia sacramenta donetur propriè spiritus sancti est vt ipsi soli huius efficientiae priuilegium mancat Verborum solennitas sacri inuocatio nominis signa institutionibus Apostolicis sacerdotum ministerits attributa visibile celebrant sacramentum rem verò ipsam spiritus sanctus format efficit consecrationibus visibilibus inuisibiliter manum totius bonitatis author apponit plenitudinem gratiae vnctionis diuinae pinguedo sanctificationibus officialibus infundit remsacramenti consummat persicit Christe came to Baptisme not wanting that 〈◊〉 as he that was free from sinne but that perpetuall authoritie might be giuen to the sacrament and that no respect of persous might commend the vertue of so great a worke because remission of sinnes whether it be giuen by Baptisme or by other sacraments is properlie the holie ghostes and to him alone the priuiledge of this essectuall workeing remaineth The solemnitie of wordes and the inuocation of the holy name and the signes appointed for the ministery of the Preists by the Apostles doctrine and instruction doe celebrate the visible sacrament but the thing it selfe the holie ghost formeth and worketh and the author of all goodnes doth inuisiblie put his hande to the visible consecrations and the fatnes of the diuine vnction doth power the fullnes of grace into the ministeriall sanctifications and doth make consummate or make perfect the matter of the sacrament That the ministers desertes doth nothing alter the sacramentes or the effect of them it is no controuersie betweene vs howsoeuer you would make the ignorant beleeue that Caluine is of another opinion wherein his writings are moste manifest to the contrarie Where you approoued him that is lawfullie called to haue receaued the gift and grace of the holie Ghost which is the selfe same that the Apostles receaued of Christ for the like functions you take too much vpon you for the ordinarie and externall calling to exercise an outwarde ministerie where of Cyprian discourseth may be without receauing of the holie Ghoste Againe no man hath authoritie to giue the holie Ghost in ordaining more then in Baptisme or anie other parte of the ministerie of the Gospell Thirdlie where you require lawfull calling and ordaining in the minister of the sacrament that the receiuer being rightlie qualified maie obtaine like benefit of whomsoeuer the office is exercised you exclude lay men and women from ministring of the sacrament of Baptisme which your doctrine doth admitte Finallie where you assure the minister of the continuance of his authoritie by that gift of the holie Ghost be his life and desertes neuer so euill you saie verie much For what if he be an Idolater a persecutor of Christians or degenerated into Mahometisme wil you say his gift and authoritie doth still continue nay you saie it continueth though he be neuer so ignorant Then if he be a naturall foole or a mad man or one void of all Christian knowledge either when he was ordained or fallen since into such extremitie of ignorance yet by your rule he retaineth his gift Nay if he be for heresie schisme or notorious euill life lawfullie embarred from the vse and exercise of remitting sinnes and other like spirituall functions yet his gift of the holie Ghost continueth still with him This is in deede an indeleble character that is imprinted so deepe that nothing can scrape it awaie except perhappes a glasse or knife in degradation For as I take it you meane of him that is onely suspended from his office as though the practize onelie and not the authoritie for a time might be taken from him But to make an end of this matter I turne Caluins reason against him selfe He and his flocke be of that fond and blinde iudgment that the whole text of the twentith of S. Iohn wherin Christ giueth authoritie to the Apstoles to remit sinnes is meant onelie of preaching the Gospell for which function Christ gaue them the holie Ghost Now sir vpon this I vrge him with his owne reason I ask him first whether the ministers that by him cresent to preach the word of the holie ghost as for example Beza that he sent into Fraunce first or Richerus whome he sent to Coligninia or Hermam that came by the holie Ghostes sending vnto Flaunders Brabant had these the holie ghost or no If they saie yea as I think they will they be so bolde in an other mans house then demaund of them further whether the said spirit maie erre If they saie no as possiblie they will then conclude against them thus The holie Ghost can not erre ergo you haue not the holie Ghost and consequentlie you haue then no better right in preaching then poore Priestes haue in remitting or absoluing Therefore I leaue Caluine wrestling with his owne shadow and will follow on my purpose and course of matter which I haue in hande FVLKE Now we shall heare how cunninglie you can turne Caluins reason againste him selfe First you saie he and his flock be of that fond and blinde iudgement that the wholl text wherein Christ geueth authoritie to his Apostles to remit sinnes is meant onelie of Preaching the Gospell for which function
dare saie of all other actes that be exercised in Christes name in the Church doth not onelie no whit abase Gods excellency but was purposelie instituted to honour the maiestie of God in the face of all people and to set out the glorie of his house how dare any man for feare of Gods high indignation controlle the worke of Christ in remitting mans sinnes by such a visible sacrament as to the honour of God is most conuenient and to our saluation most necessarie If they will not let pristes remit sinnes for feare of offending God and dishonouring his name then let them not baptize not preach not teach not doe miracles not giue the holie ghost not correct faultes not giue orders nor doe any other functions For these euerie one be no lesse proper to God then remission of sinnes FVLKE You ground your argument vpon a sacrament before you haue prooued any The power of remitting sinnes is graunted to be perpetual in the Church and nothing derogatorie to the honour of God But that there is any other sacrament whereby men are assured of the forgiuenes of their sinnes by any externall ceremonie except the sacraments of Baptisme and of the Lordes supper which is the cheife matter in controuersie you goe not once about to prooue If Christs Church were like your Popish Church wherein all thinges are taught by Images dumme ceremonies and the worde of God neuerpreached it might come to passe as you say that it would be forgotten that such power is giuen by God to Christ. But in the Church of God many thinges are remembered by meanes of preaching the Gospell and word of God whereof there is no visible sacrament or ceremony although to helpe our weakenes the mercy of God hath by his sacraments sealed vp the moste necessarie and generail pointes of doctrine of our regeneration to be the Children of God and of our spirituall feeding or norishment to continue vs perpetuallie in the same But whereas you saie that if both sinnes of mans soull and sores of his bodie could not visiblie by externall meanes he healed in the glorious inuoration of Gods name it would surclie be forgottenin the Church of Christ that such power is giuen by God the father to his onelie sonne c. I praie you what externall meanes haue you visiblie to heale the sores of mans bodie by inuocation of Gods name lest it should be forgotten in the Church that the father hath giuen such power to his sonne Will you now send vs to the mocke miracles lying signes regestred in your Legendes wrought at your pilgramages Idolls or in an other worlde by the Iapponical Iesuites These because they are not seene mooue nothing the inwarde man whose minde you saie ful learnedlie will not reach to that inwardelie whereof he hath no proofe nor assurance outwardelie As though faith were not a substance of things that are hoped for and an euidence of things that are not seene Where of the minde of man hath no assurance outwardelie For the sacramentall seales but by faith make no assurance outwardelie Can I gather an assurance but by faith of Gods promise that my bodie being washed outwardelie my soull is clensed inwardelie Is it the receiuing of the outward elements in the Lordes supper that assureth me of my spirituall nourishment to eternall life or faith graunted vpon the worde which comming to the elements maketh them the seales of assurance of gods promises The question you aske of the Prophets foreseeing of things so long before things that afterwarde did fall whether it was graunted with dishonour of God or to his glorie I answere that the propertie of God alone to whome all things are present was not ne could not be communicated to men But God to his glorie by the instrument of their mouth did foreshew those things which he had reuealed vnto thē by his spirit in prophetical vision or dreame Neither could Elizeus see the heart inward thoughts of Gihezei his seruant which is gods onelie propertie but God did reueale and declare vnto him what hipocrisie was hid in the heart of Gihezei so that Elizeus knew no more properlie what was in the heart of Gihezei then any other man to whome Gihezei him-selfe might open his thoughtes sauing that Elizeus knew more certenlie and by 2 more wonderfull meane For to man Gihezei might ly but god who onely searcheth the heart the reines reuealed the truth to Elizeus Neither was Peter and the rest hable by laying on of handes to giue the holy ghost that is the visible gists of the holv ghost but according to gods good pleasure will For Acts. 8. Peter and Iohn sent by the Apostles into Samaria praied for them that were baptized that they might receiue the holie Ghost and after laide their hands vpon them and they receiued from god the sensible graces of the holie ghost as speaking with tongues interpretation of tongues healing of sicknes casting out of deuills and such like Therefore in such wonderfull effects as followed laying on of hands nothing that is most proper to god passed to men But it pleased God who is the onelie author of such graces and gifts to bestow the same by his faithfull stewards at their praier whereunto they were mooued and assisted by him and with that visible sacrament or ceremonie But such ceremonies we haue not for remission of sinnes or reteining of them by Gods institution Therefore no sacrament but a doctrine of remitting or reteining of sinnes ALLEN O heresie most shamefull that then goeth about to dishonour God most when she most pretendeth gods honour whereof shee is so tender and so carefull that shee hath barred his owne spouse of his blessed bodie of remission of sinnes of the spirit of God of all sacraments of all holie ceremonies of memories of miracles of all holie functions and to be short of all gifts and graces and all this for Gods honour so honourable a thing it is for Christ to be the king of so beggerlie a common wealth as they make of the Church such glorie it is for Christ to haue his onelie spouse robbed of the treasures of his giftes and graces so comelie it is for Christ to haue such sacraments as neither conteine him-selfe nor his grace so worthie a thing it is for Christ to haue ministers that vpon his owne warrant can neither pardon nor punish mans misdeedes Gloriosa dicta sunt de te Ciuitas Dei Glorious thinges haue beene reported of thee thou Citie of God and how arte thou now so barrenne and so contemptible that thy honour must needes redound to the dishonour of him by whome all thy honour onelie standeth But I cease to pursue the Churchces enemies now in mine owne wordes I will rather ioyne with the holie fathers for their ouerthrow whose not onelie reason and sufficient answere to this their vaine replie founded on the pretence of Gods honour but also their onelie
to Christianitie for they will giue all ouer them selues But briefllie to conclude vp the answere to their reason founded vpon Nouatus his principle touching Gods honour thus I saie That neuer derogateth to Gods honour which is agreable to gods ordinance but that priests should remit sinnes is the ordinance of God as is declared therefore the vse thereof doth not derogate any whit to gods honour Againe as great workes and as proper to god as remission of sinnes was practized by the Apostles and yet is vsed by the Bishops of holie Church without all dishonour of god giuing the holie ghost and gods grace by laying on of 〈◊〉 Ergo remission of sinnes may be also practized of priests without all iniurie to God and the onelie right therein FVLKE Whethersoeuer the force of trueth or prouidence of God driue heretikes we haue no purpose to follow them The gifts which god bestoweth on his Church and the ministers thereof with all humilitie and thankefulnes we acknowledge receiue and exercise to his glorie and the benefit of his Church although we arrogate nothing vnto our selues either in them or in any other thing that is proper to God And therefore it is both a vaine and a false complaint that the Church adorned with Gods blessinges is forsaken and a congregation barren of all Gods giftes imbraced All offices of ministerie in the Church that God hath ordained we admit and practise neither will we giue ouer anie thing for all your childish prating whereof we haue warrant to enioie it out of the word of God To your syllogismes I answere thus to the first That to exercise the Power of remission of sinnes in such sorte as it is ordained of God is no dishonour to God but a great honour To the second I denie that anie thing proper to God as remission of sinnes giuing the holie Ghost and Gods grace as it is proper to God was or could be practised by the Apostles or anie mortal man properly otherwise I confesse that remission of sinnes as Christ hath commaunded it may be practised without all iniurie to God and his onelie right therein For further proofe of the forsaid matter it is declared that neither Christ nor his euerlasting Father nor the holie Ghost doe giue ouer vnto man or resigne the power of remission or anie other holie function of the Church but doe themselues continuallie worke all those graces by mans mynisterie and seruice THE EIGHT CHAP. ALLEN FVrthermore we must here consider that what worke soeuer God appointeth man to exercise in his Church either in remission of sinnes or giuing grace of Gods spirit or what other holie action soeuer may in his name be done for the benefite of the people by the ministerie and seruice of man either by the meanes and mediation of any other instrumentall cause we must learne that in these workes so wrought either by man or through other creatures God doth not resigne his right to the waies and workers thereof and giue ouer the wholl title that is due to himselfe in the saide diuine acts For then in deede mans practize should derogate from Gods power and he should as it were succeed God in the right of his proper power and euerlasting inheritance which onelie to surmise as heretikes do were meere follie Christ is by euerlasting right made the head of the Church and he resigneth not this office to anie mortall man For if he did then the partie that should by his graunt occupie for a season the same dignitie were his fuccessour and should holde in like right the same office as he did before But that notwithstanding he hath made his substitute and vicegerent by whom in his corporall absence he ruleth now the Church as he did before in his owne person not giuing ouer his preheminence supreame power therein but now practizing that by another which afore he exercised him selfe in his owne person It had beene a great derogation to Christ that Peter should haue bin Christes heir and successour for then Christ had lost the perpeiuitie an other man gouerning after him in like right and preheminence as he had before But for Peter to rule the Church vnder him in his steade as by his euerlasting right with commission from him that holdeth that soueraigntie for euer by whomesoeuer the Church shall be ruled till the worlds end in earth this I saie is no derogation to God nor his sonne Christ at all but it much prooueth that Christ according to his manhood is the head of the Church for euer because by man in earth he ruleth the same til his comming again the whichman though he be his vicar vicegerent yet he is not his successour Saint Augustine did trimlie allude to the vse of the olde law comparing the ministers of Gods Church to the yonger brethren who were charged to marrie the elder brothers wife when he died without issue in whose name they did practize the worke of mariage and therefore could not call their children by their owne names but by the name of their elder breethren For as they raised seede to their brother and for their brothers honour so the Priests that haue taken vpon them as it were in mariage to gouerne Christes Church and to bring forth children not in their owne names but in the name of their elder brother and her departed Husband As when they bring foorth children in Baptisme as through the wombe of the Church they bring them not forth as for them-selues and in their owne names but in the name of Iesus Christ beeing their elder brother euen so it is in remission of sinnes also in which case Christ resigneth not his authoritie as though he lacked that power him-selfe but practzeth that mightie worke by the ministerie of man which before he exercised in his owne person And as the baptzing not in the name of Peter nor Paull nor Apolle but in the name of Christ the first husband of the Church after whome the Children be called Christianes not Petrianes nor Paulianes doth much set foorth the honour of the eldest spouse so it prooueth and augmenteth Christes euerlasting honour and moste iuste title in remission of sinnes that till this daie no lesse now in absence by the seruice of his Priestes then before when he was present by his owne worde and will sinnes be in his name and faith fullie remitted yea euen the verie function of Preaching the Gospell which they saie is meant by remitting of sinnes although they say most foolishlie therein and against the common sense of all the fathers yet euen that function is Christs still though it be vsed of man in earth FVLKE You are as plentifull in proofe of that which is confessed as you are naked and barren in proouing that which is denyed The title of your Chapter we will graunt you without proofe and according thereunto we are content to decide this controuersie But you will no longer abide by it
as sickenes might often take holde of men Yours is not extreame it may be repeated if it may not be repeated it is not the vnction that S. Iames speaketh of Of the sayings of Epiphanius and Lactantius we haue spoken before which it were needeles here to repeate That there was a ceremonie vsed in reconciling of publike penitents I denie not but that there was a sacrament of penance you haue hetherto brought no good euidence For your argument to prooue that they talke not of inward repentance but of an action solemnly exercised because we heare that the priest is minister is no good euidence for the priest is minister of the worde as well as of the sacraments ALLEN Which trueth Saint Cyrill vttereth most plainlie for our purpose treating thus vpon the words of institution of this sacrament Cùm ipsiremittunt aut detinent spiritus qui habitat in eis per ipsosremittit aut detinet fit autem id duobus modis primùm Baptisme deinde Poenitenita When the priestes remit sinnes or reteine them the holie ghost which which dwelleth in them doth remit or retein by them Which is done two manner of waies first in Baptisme and then afterward in penance Saint Cyprian also said that the holie ghost worketh remission of sinnes whether it be in baptisme or by other sacraments Whereby he cleerelie vttereth his meaning that there should be moe sacraments then one instituted by Christ for that purpose In all which congruitie of Gods holie working by diuerse sacraments the remission of sinnes we conclude against heresie that the priesis power herein derogateth no more to god nor our sauiour in the sacrament of penance then is doth before by baptisme or after by extreame vnction in none of al which as I haue prooued before Christ doth resigne his power and proper iurisdiction to the priestes but continuing euerlastinglie in like preheminence and power as before worketh his grace and remission of sinnes in all these Sacraments by the priests seruice and ministerie that it maybe yet as truelie as in his life time said and so shall be to the worlds ende Christ baptizeth Christ shriueth assoileth and anointeth sinners for remission of their offences Although Iesus doth none of these now nor much did in his life time but his disciples then and his disciples now doe the same holie actions in his name FVLKE There is nothing in Saint Cyrills wordes to prooue that there is a sacrament of repentance beside baptisme but that the holie ghost doth remit or reteine by his ministers by two waies namelie by baptisme by repentance after baptisme For if you will restraine the worde poenitentia to your pretended sacrament then this absurditie will follow that seeing there are but two waies by which the spirit remitteth sinnes they are not remitted without that sacrament neither by true contrition of heart without any sacrament not by receiuing the Lordes supper nor by your extreame vnction Therefore poenitentia in Saint Cyrill signifieth repentance and is necessarilie required in them that shall obteine remission of sinnes by participation of the Lordes supper or by faith without any sacrament That Cyprian maketh moe sacraments then one instituted by Christ to assure vs of remission of sinnes it is true For by the sacrament of the bodie and bloode of Christ worthelie receiued we haue this assurance also as well as by the sacrament of baptisme To conclude the power of Christ or of his ministers graunted by him we denie not but the institution of the sacrament of penance we require to be shewed out of the holie scriptures if you will haue vs to beleeue it ALLEN To conclude this matter I argue thus It is no dishonour to God for the priest to remit sinnes as well originall as actuall of all sortes and grauitie in the sacrament of Baptisme by the Protestantes owne confession nor by extreame vnction by the warrant both of scripture and Doctors Ergo remission of sinnes is not vnlawfull nor dishonourable to God to be giuen by the priest in the solemne sacrament of penance And further I ioyne with them thus The word of God is much more plaine and expresse for the priests warrant to remit sinnes in penance then in Baptisme but they may lawfullie doe it in Baptisme Ergo they may doe it no lesse lawfullie in penance Compare the wordes of institution of them both and iudge your selues of your indifferencie and sinceritie by what right you remooue the one and reteine the other I praie God you seeke not shortelie to baptize vs onely by your preaching as you now will onelie absolue vs by the same But truelie I thinke you be in the case that Saint Ambrose tooke Nouatus your forefather to haue bene in not onelie for that that he saieth Nouatus where he listed would admit power to priests of remission But where he listed not there the grace giuen to them must be dishonoured to God So that of thinges equallie commended by scripture and commaunded by God the good man must haue choise for his tooth not onelie in this point I now compare our choise men but much more in that which followeth in the saide Saint Ambrose of all Nouatians whome he trippeth pretelie with this terme delicati mei My delicate gentlemen saith he with their lustie lookes and swelling hartes can not abide in their brauerie to looke vpon a poore caitisse weeping for his sinnes abundantlie apparelled mourninglie in sad and sorowfull companie and so forth And this surelie is the disease of our daies which hath not onelie infected the vnfaithfull but also hath made these holie thinges lothsome euen to the better sorte of Gods people So much is mans will and pleasure pampered where Gods worde and writing should be onelie followed For the necessarie bearing with such frailtie euen of the good almost generallie the Church of God hath sought and allowed much more gentle remedies then the worlde had wont full gladlie to beare for their greeuous sinnes FVLKE We confesse that it is no dishonour to God that the minister lawfullie authorized should remit sinnes in such sorte as he hath commission namelie by declaring the wil of God that they are by him remitted and giuing the seales or sacraments of God for more full assurance of performance as euen the Master of the sentences teacheth out of S. Augustine and other Doctors whose words I wil set downe that the indifferent reader may see how you agree with your owne principal piller and post of Poperie who in this point seemeth to be more sound yet then you Cùm veraciter ad Deum conuerso peccata dimittuntur ab iis dimittuntur quibus ipse veraci conuersione coniungitur Spiritus sanctus ea dimittit qui datus est omnibus sanctis sibi charitare cohaer entibus siue se nouerint corporaliter siue non Similiter cum alicuius tenentur peccato ab eis tenentur quibus ille cordis prauitate disiungitur siue
notis corporaliter siue ignotis Omnes enim mali spiritualiter à bonis seiuncti sunt Ecce hic dicit peccata dimitti vel teneri à sanctis viris tamen spiritum sanctum ea dimittere dicit quod maiori consideratione dignum est idem etiam dicit quod Deus per se vel per sanctos suos tantùm dimittit peccata ait enim sic sacramentum gratiae dat Deus etiam per malos ipsam vero gratiam non nisi per seipsum vel pcr sanctos suos ideo remissionem peccatorum vel per seipsum facit velper ipsius columbae membra quibus ait si quibus dimiseritis aimittentur Ecce quà m varia à doctoribus traduntur super his in hactanta varietate quid tenendum Hoc sane discere sentire possumus quod solus Deus dimittit peccata retinet tamen Ecclesiae contulit potestatem ligands soluendi Sed aliter ipse soluit vel ligat aliter Ecclesia Ipse enim per se tantùm dimittit pecca tum quia enim animam mundat ab interiore macula à debito aeternae mortis soluit Non autem hoc sacerdotibus concessit quibus tamen tribuit potestatem soluendi ligandi id est ostendendi homines ligatos vel solutos vnde Dominus leprosū sanitati priùs per se restituit deinde ad sacerdotes misit quorum iudicio ostenderetur mundatus When sinnes are forgiuen to him that is truelie turned to God they are forgiuen by them to whome he him selfe by true conuersion is ioyned The holie ghost forgiueth them which is giuen to all the Saints which are knit together in charitie whether they know one another corporallie or not Likewise when any mans sinnes are reteined they are reteined by them from whome he is disioyned by prauitie of heart whether they be corporally knowne or vnknowne For all euill men are spirituallie separated from good men Beholde here he saieth that sinnes are forgiuen or reteined by the Saints or holiemen Ana'yet he saieth that the holy ghost doth forgiue them and that which is worthie of greater consideration the same Doctor also saith that God by himselfe or by his Saints onelie remittesh sinnes For thus he saieth The sacrament of grace god giueth euen by euilmen but grace it selfe not but by himselfe he causeth or by the members of that doue to whome he saith if to any ye shal forgiue they shal be forgiuen Beholde how diuerse thinges are deliuered by the Doctors concerning these matters and in this so great variety what is to be holden This truelie we may saie and thinke that onely God forgiueth sinnes and reteineth and yet he hath giuen power to the Church of binding and loosing but otherwise doth he him selfe bind and loose otherwise the Church For he him selfe by him selfe onelie forgiueth sinne because both he clensith the soul from the inward spot and looseeh from the debt of eternall death But this he hath not graunted to the priests to whome notwihstanding he hath giuen power of binding and loosing that is to saie of declaring men to be bound or loosed whereupon our Lord did first by him seifere store the Leper to health asterwards sent him to the priests by whose iudgement he might be declared to be clensed Thus writeth the Master of the sentences with more to this effect In your second argument brought to prooue that penance is a sacrament I denie the Antecedent that there is any wordes of institution to prooue your sacrament of penance Where you feare vainlie least we will shortly seeke to baptize by preaching as we wil absolue you onelie by the same you declare nothing but your harde conceit of vs. For we are olde enough to know the difference of the ministerie of the worde and the sacrament a sunder To compare vs with Nouatus either in the one point or in the other you haue no cause in the world but your owne malicious and slaunderous humor For we doe not admit the power of remission where we list but wheresoeuer God hath graunted it and in what manner soeuer he hath appointed it to be exercised We are readie to receiue the publike penitents that with plentie of teares and other outward signes doe testifie the inward sorowe of their hearts conceiued for their greeuous and notorious sinnes Yea we receiue them whose offences being not openlie knowne doe neuertheles secretlie bewaile their sinnes And therefore that you saie of pampering mans will and pleasure where Gods worde and writing should be onely followed seeke among your owne sect where it may take place For sinnes openlie committed or knowne to be committed we holde that they ought with open confession to be chastised for satisfying the Church that is offended by them As for sinnes committed in secret whereby our neighbour is neither hurt nor offended it is sufficient that they be acknowledged with hartie repentance before god if the offendours conscience be not troubled with further doubtfulnes about them In which case we holde that it is conuenient that he should consult with the learned minister for his further comfort and satisfaction out of the worde of God concerning the remission of his sinnes ALLEN And therefore the manner and order of Penance hath bin diuerse in sundry ages and countries sometimes solemne which could be but once taken in al a mans life somtimes not solemne but yet open and publike which might be iterated as ofien as mans mortal sinnes so required other times priuat onelie betwixt the priest and the penitent which is now vsed and long hath beene in a manner gencrallie thorough the wholl worlde Of all which diuersities we will not now intreat nor for our matter the consideration of them is virie needfull seing that in all sortes and in euerie of the sundry formes of doing penance this is a most firme principle that the penitent had remission of sinnes for which he did penance no otherwise but by the ministerie of the Priestes Therefore the substance of the matter being one of the diuersitie of vse and circumstances which maie be according to the time and manners of men altered we need not much to care Baptisme was once vsed with solemnitie at two or three principall feastes of the yeare for the time so required then and the condition of the people yet the same sacrament of Baptisme ministerea'now priuatlie as occasion serueth by the birth of euerie childe is of the same force and grace now that it was then Wherein to reprehend the wisdome of Gods Church that is assuredlie ruled by the spirit of God is ouermuch wantonnes of will and sedition not tolerable FVLKE There hath beene diuerse manners and orders appointed for the punishment of sins and for triall of the offenders true repentance conuersion vnto god but all these prooue not any sacrament of penance The manner which the Popish Church doth vse in the exercise of this pretensed sacrament is partly
that they haue any such power of healing bodelie diseases It is a better reason that you alledge out of Saint Augustine that remission of sinnes in the Church respecteth the iudgement to come but that he speaketh there of any temporal iudgement after this life you are not able to prooue Neither doth the citing of the text of Saint Paull I. Cor. II. helpe you which he citeth to prooue that temporall paines are laide vpon men in this life to them whose sinnes are done awaie that they should not be reserued to the ende as his wordes are plaine in that wholl Chapter Magis enim propter futurum iudicium fit remissio peccatorum In hac autem vita c. For remission of sins ie made rather for the iudgement to come For in this life it preuaileth so much which is written a heauie yoke vpon the sons of Adam from the daie of their comming forth of their mothers wombe vnto the day of their buriall into the mother of all thus we see euen litle children after the lauer of regeneration to be tormented with the affliction of diuerse euills that we may vnderstand that all which is doue by the healthfull sacraments doth pertaine rather to the hope of good thinges to come then to reteining or obteining things present Manie euills also seeme to forgiuen heere and to be reuenged with no punishments but the paines of them are reseruea vntill afterwarde For not in vaine is that called properlie the daie of iudgement when the iudge of the quicke and the deade shall come As on the contrarie side some things are reuenged heere and yet if they be remitted verilie in the worlde to come they shall not hurt Wherfore of certaine temporall paines which are laid vppon sinners in this life in them whose sinnes are done awaie that they should not be reserued vnto the ende the Apostle saieth for if we iudged our selues we should not be iudged of the Lord but when we are iudged of the Lord we are chastened that we should not be damned with this worlde Thus it is plaine by Saint Augustines iudgement that Saint Paull speaketh of temporall paines laied vppon sinners in this life to bring them to repentance not of temporal iudgement to be exercised after this life But you meane not that Popes or Bishops pardons should alwaies take away bodelie sicknes because Christ did not so vnto ai Nay rather because they are not able to heale a sore finger in any one man For Christ healed as many as he would if the Pope haue Christs power why should he not as well heale whome he will Your similitude that as Christ tooke away temporall paines so may Popes and priests holdeth not for there is great odds betweene Christ and his seruants he did what he would they may doe no more then he hath giuen chem power and charge And for releasing of times of repentance appointed to satisfie the Church they may by power giuen from him but for the releasing of debt to be paied in the world to come he gaue them neither authority nor cōmaundement That the priest doth dailie heale in your sacrament of aneling it is an impudent lie For first they anoint none in their dailie practize but such as are in dispaire of life of whom if any recouer by the wilof God it is sacriledge to impure it to the power of the priests anointing who hauenot the gift of healing as the elders of the Apostles Church had whome S. Iames willeth to be sent for to heale the diseased ALLEN But in Saint Paull we haue inuincible proofe of the authoritie and iurisdiction of Bishops and princivali pastcurs touching as well the power of enioyned pename and satisfaction for sinnes committed as the lawfull power of pardoning the same which before was enioyned and so in one fact of the Apostle a cleare practize of binding and loosing He first bound him by excommunication that had so greeuouslie offended and to shew what a terrible torment this kinde of panishment is and how much it is to be dred he maketh it euident by a slraunge corporall vexation that all Chrillian men might conceiue the miserie of those persons which be excommunicated hereafter when the externall signe and miraculous torment should ceasse in the Church I wili reporte the matter fullie There was amongst the Corinthians one of reputation that kept vnlawfullie his fathers wife the which being knowne to their Apostle Saint Paul who then was absent srom them and being accounted of him as in deede it was an exceeding grieuous fact and notorious he gaue in charge to the Church of Corinth to take the person that had so offended as excommunicated that is to saie to be separated from the sacraments the seruice and common fellowship of Saints But see with what a maiestie and might of operation with what force of wordes and authoritie of his calling with what a kinde of punishment Christes officer here correcteth the offender Thus runneth his determinate sentence on the offender that all the worlde may take heede and wonder at the Churches authoritie and condemne the vaine voices of them that doe restraine the power of Gods ministers onelie to the preaching of the Gospell I beeing absent in bodie but present in spirit haue alreadie giuen iudgement as well as if I were present that the person that hath thus wickedlie wrought should be deliuered vpto Sathan in the vertue of our Lorde Christ Iesus you there being gathered with my spirit in the name of our said Lord Christ Iesus and all for the vexation of his flesh that his soull may be safe in the daie of our Lord Iesus Christ. This in effect is the Apostles sentence on that incestuous person wherby he was temporallie tormented by the force of Saint Pauls power of binding sinners giuen by Christ and exercised no otherwise as you may see but in Christs vertue holie name Where it may be noted for a strange 〈◊〉 of mans word that the deuill himse fe should be therby appointed to torment a sinners bodie not as he would but as far as the diuine Magistrate shall limit him Diabolus enim quia ad hoc paratus est vt auerses à Deo 〈◊〉 in potestatem audita sententia corripit eos The 〈◊〉 saith Saint Ambrose who is alwaies readie to take them to his power that are turned from God sireight as soone as he heareth the sentence pronounced vpon sinners he doth afflict and correct them As it may also appeere by our Sauiours wordes in the Gospell of a woman that had spiritum infirmitatis the spirit of infirmitie whome the deuill had eighteene yeares together fast bound in sickenes for her sinnes to whome also Christ gaue a pardon by imposition of his holie handes Where we may haue an other example of his mercie in loosing the temporall band and punishment appointed for sinne But let vs turne to Saint Pauls patient whome we left by the key of the
the Church the glosse thinketh that it should be in vaine if it should serue vs to no purpose as though if any such thing were might stand with Gods iustice it might not serue to set forth the glorie and riches of Christes incarnation Ad hereunto that the ouerplus were needeles for vs if the value of one drop be sufficiēt for the perfect redemption of the whol world it might also be sufficient to take away all temporall paine But if we should further admit that there were such a treasure of the Church who made the Pope generall stewarde of it and other Bishops to haue so small a portion of so infinite a treasure You answere that Saint Paull saith that Christ left to his Vicar generall and other his holie appointed ministers the beslowing of Gods mysteries But Saint Paull speaketh of no Vicar generall but of all Gods ministers which be not onelie bishops I trow that they be stewardes of his mysteries which mysteries are his holie word and sacraments or if this treasure were parte of them the dispensation of it perteineth to priests as well as vnto Bishoppes To proceede this treasure beeing so plentifull as you saie no man notwithstanding may claime the benefit of it otherwise then through such meanes as God hath appointed and by the ministrie of the man that he hath appointed But neither this treasure nor the meanes nor the man are appointed of God as farre as we can learne out of his written worde neither is the Pope any such steward to whome Christ would commit the keies of so inestimable a treasure which considereth not the worthines of the person but of the price which he receiueth for his pardons as the greatest practize of them hath beene euer since they were inuented Againe if the offendour be meete and of good congruitie worthie of grace and mercie what neede any peece of his treasure to be laide out aboute him for Gods iustice is as much bounde vnto congruitie as vnto condignitie Neither can he deny pardon to any that in any respect is worthie to receiue it sauing that grace is no grace where their is the worthines of the partie to deserue it but the rewarde is accounted according to debt and not according to grace ALLEN And such a perfect knot there is now since Christes incarnation of euerie member in Christes mysticall bodie which is the Church and companie of faithfull with him beeing the heade of the said bodie that his merites workes suffering and satisfaction maie well be applied to serue and supplie all wantes of ech member thereof yea more then that the holie suffering and tribulation of holie Saintes as of our blessed Ladie Christes mother and the holie Apostles with numbers of constant Martirs Confessours and Virgines helpe to supplie our lack also and encrease the huge treasure of the Church for the satisfying for our sinnes which yet notwithstanding as they were meritorious to the sufferers be fullie rewarded by the glorie of Christes kingdome and eternall felicitie which farre exceedeth not onelie the merites of all Saintes but sufficientlie rewardeth the incomparable humilitie and obedience of Christ to his father in suffering death vpon the crosse though his workes as they be satisfactorie for vs are not yet answered in vs nor can not be till the worldes end ALLEN That knot of communication of the benefites of Christes death was as effectuall before his incarnation as since although it became effectual by meanes of his incarnation euen as the effect of his death extended to the saluation of his elect before his death But you doe well to follow your author at the harde heeles the writer of that glauering glosse vpon Pope Bonefacius Bull which immediately aster the words by me last cited addeth Nam propter vnionem capitis membrorum meritum capitis attribuitur membris quia sic per alienum meritun non per proprium meritum liberantur à poena ideo quantum ad ipsos talis liberalior dicitur remissio seu indulgentia licet quoad Christum qui hoc nobis meruit vocetur redemptio copiosa For because of the vnion of the heade and the members the merit of the head is attributed and applied vnto the members and because they are so deliuered from paine by the merit of an other and not by their owne merit therefore in respect of themselues such deliuerance is called a remission or pardon although in respect of Christ which deserued this for vs it is called a plentifull redemption We know that by meanes of the vnion of the head vnto the members the redemption wrought by the head perteineth to the members but the application thereof is by the spirit of God and not by the Popes pardon or any ministrie of man in speaking properlie which extendeth no further then the outwarde senses in speaking the worde of God to the hearing in washing with water or deliuering the bodelie foode in signe of baptizing with the holie ghost and feeding with the bodie and blood of Christ. But more than that you saie the holie suffrings and tribulation of Saints doe helpe to supplie our lacke and increase the huge treasure of the Church Your wordes found as though your meaning were that the suffring of Saints doth more supplie our lacke then the infinite treasure of the passion of Christ. But that I may not take you at the worst you meane at the lest that they ad vnto it you say plainly they increase the treasure of the Church But you forget the infinite valure of Christes bloodwhich you spake of before which can no more receiue any increase then it can be diminished for there is no proportion of that which is infinite tò that which is finit But if the treasure of the Church which is infinite by Christs merit may be made greater by the merit of Saints which are finit then the quantitie thereof must be greater by so much or so manie partes as are added and so there shall be proportion of finit to infinite or ells the treasure of Christs merit shall not be infinite This grosse and impossible absurditie therefore came in after the first deuise of the Churches infinite treasure by Christs merit For Clemens the fixt which brought the Iubelie yeare from euerie hundred to euery 50. as he learned of Aug. de Ancona that liued in this time ioyneth in his bull the merits of all Saints to increase the infinite treasure of Christs merits Of what value the merits of Saints be we shall heare in the next section ALLEN And for Christ in this case our aduersaries perchance would not much sticke with vs but for the remaine of Saints satisfaction they can not abide And if Saint Paull in expresse words did not vtter this my meaning concerning the trauaile of holie Saints for Christes bodie which is his Church the litle kolie ones of these daies would haue spurned at these kinde of speaches for feare of doeing iniurie to Christ of
though vnperfect as they proceede from vs vnpure and vnworthie vessells yet neuerthelesse to be acceptable before God vnto rewarde which he giueth of meere mercie and not of merite or deserte Therefore there is no shadow for Popish pardons to shroude themselues vnder the winges of the good workes of Saintes which are the fruites of faith to declare them to be iustified not anie cause by which in the sight of God they can appeare iust and much lesse be able to iustifie other ALLEN Would God euerie man could feele how happie a thing it is to dwell as brethren together in the house of God vnder the appointed Pastours of that familie in which onelie Gods fauour is euerlastinglie found that they might therewith be partakers of all their workes that feare God might haue some sense and taste of that holie ointment of Gods spirite and gift of his grace that first was vpon the head of this householde our Master Christ Iesus and then dropped downe abundantly to his beard euen to the verie beard of Aaren whereby as S. Augustine saith the holie Apostles be signified and by them is ishued downe to the homme of Christes coate and imbrued all the borders of his garments that euerie one of the felowship might receiue benefite and feele the verdure thereof Quoniam 〈◊〉 mandauit Dominus benedictionem vitam vsque in seculum For in this happie felowship onlie our Lord bestoweth his manifold blessinges and life for euermore Amen FVLKE Who so looketh for sense from anie other fountaine or beginning then from the head alone shall feele no more then a stone But who so thorough faith is become a liuelie member of the mystical body of Christ by the operation of his holie spirite shall vndoubtedlie haue a moste sweete feeling of that moste happie spirituall coniunction of himselfe first vnto the heade which is Christ then vnto his bodie which is the Church and maie cheerefullie sing with Dauid Beholde how good and pleasant a thing it is that breethren dwel together But such is the abundance of grace and vertue in the head Christ that he seeketh not for merite or desert in himselfe or in anie of his fellow members although he receiue the gracious ointment of spirituall doctrine as S. Augustine doth expound it flowing from Christ to his Apostles and from them into all parts of his Church by which he is not taught to trust in himselfe or to depend vpon other mens merits or pardons but to repose the wholl hope of his saluation deliuerance from the wrath of God in the merites and satisfaction of Iesus Christ his heade towhome with the father and the holy ghost be euerlasting praise of our redemption reconciliation saluation glorification in his holie Church and felowship of Saints throughout all generations world without ende Amen God be praysed for euer AN APOLOGIE OF THE PROFESSORS OF THE GOSPEL IN FRAVNCE AGAINST THE RAILING DECLAMATION OF PEter Frarine a Louanian turned into English by Iohn Fowler Written by William Fulke AN APOLOGIE AGAINST THE RAILING DECLAMATION OF PETER FRARINE IT is pitie that the president of the Quodlibeticall disputations of Louane had no more discretion then to propounde in steede of exercises of learning a question perteining to the estate and doeings of other people with whome neither the speaker nor the hearers had any thing to doe neither were hable by knowledge of their affaires to discearne the cause nor by authoritie of their place to decide the controuersie But seeing they are disposed otherwise then wise men woulde be to be curious in a foraine common wealth and Fowler hath fantafied that the same also may apperteine to England which in Flaunders was de claimed against Fraunce Let vs see what Peter Frarine bringeth which may concerne the comon cause of religion where in they of France against whome he hath shot his bolt doe agree with vs in England First he saith as moste wicked persons they haue disturbed religion and peace A grieuous accusation But where is the proofe The question of religion he leaueth to be handled of others the deciding whereof neuerthelesse would purge the persons accused for the most part of the other crime of disturbance of peace Well the respōdent is not to be blamed that standeth vpon that question which according to the custome of the schoole was propounded to be the argument of his talke at that time And therefore he wil open declare first that there was no cause or iust occasion why these men should rise and make insurrection Then that they tooke weapon in hand without authoritie contrarie to law and in dispite of all Magistrates and Rulers Last and finallie that they vsed themselues to cruellie handled their sworde to bloodelie to the greatest dammage hindrance and losse that euer was felt in Christendome These are the diuisions of the circle with in which the orator hath inclosed himselfe But al these points so farre as they concerne the troubles in France are fullie and directlie confuted by all the edictes of pacification giuen forth to the knowledge of the world by Charles the ninth and Henrie the third Kings of Fraunce in which they haue alwaies acknowledged that the Protestants vpon iust cause with sufficient authoritie and in their seruice and to their honour haue put them selues in armes and done whatsoeuer the necessitie of warre lawfullie taken in hande hath inforced them to doe Then iudge whether against the publike testimonie of two Kings whome the matter moste concerned and that more then once or twise repeted I need to stand in the cōfutation of Peter Frarines petty priuate declamation Notwithstanding although I haue with one hatchet hewen a sunder the wholle stoke of this rayling oration yet I will not spare to brattell out the bowes and branches thereof in answering to euerie particular quarrell and cauil of the same There was not anie good or reasonable cause saith he why the founders and brokers of this new Gospell should be driuen to put them-selues in armes against the Catholikes See how the vaine declaimer which refused before to handle the question of religion now taketh vpon him most arrogantlie to decide the same For if the Protestantes be founders and brokers of a new Gospell and the Papistes be good Catholikes there is no cause why they should once open their mouthes against the Papistes much lesse arme them-selues as he said they did against the Catholikes But if this matter pertaine to the question of religion the debating whereof is not presentlie intended let vs pardon him these preiudiciall tearmes as well now as hereafter and consider onelie what reasons he bringeth to prooue his purpose No lawes ought to be chaunged with out great cause least of all the lawes of religion So farre we both agree but there is great cause to change lawes ofreligion when Antichristes decrees haue displaced the lawes of God the onelie rule of true religion Yet saith he