thys maner Can ye drinke the cuppe that I shal drinke and be baptized with the baptisme that I shall be baptyzed wyth there the blynde may se that he did meane his passion that he should suffer It betokeneth also the inward illumynatyon of the holy spirite of God wherby the heartes of the faythfull are illumynated drawen as Actes .i. Chapter Ye shal be baptyzed wyth the holy ghost after these few dayes Nowe as they are deceyued in thys thyng by ignoraunce and lacke of knowledge so are they in all the other poyntes But now that the ignoraunt symple myght haue an wholsom Antidotus and conterpoyson agaynst this pestilent erroure especially in thys point of rebaptyzatyon and baptysme of chyldren I haue here translated thre most fruyctfull Dialogues vpon thys matter out of Laten into Englysshe whyche yf they be dylygentlye perused maye enarme and fence the reader agaynste all the obiectyons that can be made and inuented by these phantastycall and madde braynes And because that your worshypfull mastershyp hath bene alwayes earnest in the defence of the truth bearyng a singuler affectyon and mynd towardes all them that are studyous to set furth the glorye of god which godly affection and mynd ye haue many times as I haue bene by credible persons enfourmed declared in your communycatyon towardes me I could do no lesse of duty but to dedicate thys lytle laboure of myne vnto you in token of gratitude and thankefulnesse syth that none otherwyse I am able to deserue or recompence that beneuolente hearte of yours towardes mee God of his mercy vouchsafe with his holy spirit so to rule and guyde your mastership with the worshipfull gentlewoman youre wyfe that whatsoeuer yee shal do or thinke in al your affayres maye be to the glory of god saluatiō of of your soule Amē ¶ Thre moste frutefull Dialogues treatynge vpon the baptisme of chyldren very necessary to be red of all Chrystyans in these moste paryllouse tymes ¶ Symon the Anabaptist Ioiada the true Christyan ¶ That rebaptizatyon or baptyzyng agayne is not of god and that there is but one baptysme Symon I Haue taryed here for the more than an hole houre Ioiada I was almost perswaded I dyd almoste beleue that thou durst not come because that thou haddeste lyttle truste and confydence in the other articles Ioiada There is no artycle that I am soo sure of it is so farre that I should be afrayde to speake of it Simon But I wil proue that rebaptyzation is of God Ioiada By what scriptures Actes xix chapi Symon By the .xix chapter of the Actes where it is expressely set furthe that the .xii. men that had bene baptyzed by Ihon or in the baptisme of Ihon were baptyzed agayne by Paule in the name of Christe If it was lawfull after the baptisme of Ihon to receyue the baptysme of Christe why shoulde it not be more lawfull that the baptysme of the Bisshop of Rome should giue place vnto the baptisme of Christ For as those men of Ephesus had bene ignorauntlye and vnwyttingly baptized with the baptysme of Ihon and agayne were baptyzed by Paul In like maner we were ignorauntly baptized with the baptisme of the Busshop of Rome Ergo we maye lawfully be baptyzed agayne wyth the baptisme of Christe Ioiada As manye wordes as thou hast spoken so many errours hast thou vomyted and spued out Fyrste thou sayest that those men of Ephesus wer twise baptized which thing thou canst not proue Ac. xix cha Baptisme is not takē for water but for the doctryne for the baptisme of Ihon ought not here to be takē for water but for the doctryne Symon Thys is the onely refuge that ye flee to when ye be ouercomen by the truthe But ye can not proue nor strengthen these your sayinges with the scripturs nor by any truth Ioiada But I wil proue vnto the that baptisme is not alwaies takē for the wasshing that is done in the water Ihon. i. iii. chapter Mat. xxi chapter but rather for the doctryne Ihō .i. .iii. chap. And of thys thing there be most sure tokens signes notes as Mat. xxi chap. where Christ asketh the pharises whether the baptisme of Ihon was of god or of men Baptisme is takē for the doctrine for as the water doth wash away the filthines of the body so the trew doctrine doth clense the soul frō all errours superstytyon Act. xii cha Appollo sithens that it was of god why dyd they not credite beleue him vnderstanding by baptism as it most manyfestly appeareth the doctryne or testimony which they ought to haue beleued Simon Well go to put the case that in this place it is taken for the doctrine yet notwithstandinge it foloweth not that in the Actes of the apostles it shuld be takē for doctrine Ioiada In the mean season ye were to much ouersene in this thing ouer blinded saying most shamefully that we did affirme wtout any truthe the baptisme is often times taken for the doctrine But go to we wil also proue the baptisme is taken in the Acts for the doctryne In the .xii. of Actes Luke saith that a certain Iue called Apollo being an eloquēt mā taught in the way of the lorde did come to Ephesus and that he did teache dilygently those thinges that were the lordes knowing onely the baptisme of Ihon. Here the very blind may se the Luke did speake not of the water but of the doctryne The same Apollos did teache and instruct those xii men in the way of the lord whō afterwardes Paul doth aske whether after that they had beleued giuen credit vnto the doctrine What is to receyue the holy gost they had bene pacified in theyr hertes consciences by the holy ghost Here it is to be noted that faithe is not taken for that heauenlye gyft Faythe is here taken for the doctryne of fayth that illumynateth the hearte inwardlye but for the doctryne of faythe whyche one man dothe receyue of an other by hearynge But they dyd soo aunswere that Paule myght easely gather by theyr aunswere that they knew not what the peace of cōsciences nor what the holye ghost was He marueylyng therefore In quid initiati fuissēt This word to initiate whych we are compelled to vse in thys place signifieth to instructe or gyue instructyō in ani kind of relygyon science or knowlege what maner of doctryne thys was that had not set furth vnto them so necessary and principall poyntes dyd aske them wheruntoo they were baptyzed not wherin For he knewe ryght well that men are baptized in water But he asketh whervnto they were baptyzed that is too saye initiated and taughte what at lengthe was the marke that they dyd shoote at fithens that they knewe not yet the holy gost They made hym answere that they were baptized that is to saye initiated in the doctryne of Ihon. The Apostle dyd vnderstande and perceyue that they
they haue the spiryte of god If they haue the spiryt of god they are of God and baptisme is due vntoo them as it is suffycyently proued by the olde and new Testamente SYMON Yf Christ should say The kyngdome of heauen belongeth vnto them I would easely agre to the but he sayth not vnto them but vnto suche IOIADA But thou most thynke and consyder that there must be some lykenesse and affinitye betwen the thinges that are compared together I can not saye If thou wylt be saued do as Iudas dyd for Iudas is not saued but damned If the chyldren wer not of god nor the kingdom of heauen theirs the Lorde had not saide Yf ye wyll enter into the kyngdome of heaueÌ„ be ye made as these chyldren are Therfore when he sayeth vnto suche he sheweth that chyldren are such as he wil haue them to be that are of god SIM It were better to proue with expresse testimonyes of the scripture that children haue the spiryte of god IOI By what argumentes wylte thou haue those thynges that are playne and manyfest to be proued vnto the But heare thou a more playne testimonye Paule Romaine viii faythe that he that hath not the spirite of god is not his Wherby it foloweth that he which is of god hath the spirite of god the chyldren are of god Ergo they haue the spirit of god Children haue the spirite of god Yf thei haue the spirite of god then ought thei by good ryght to be baptized For Peter sayeth who can forbyd them that haue receuid the holy ghost to be baptyzed SIMON I wyll not contende Howe beit I merueyl that it is so expressely said Teche ye baptizyng Agayn that Peter baptized theÌ„ which reaceaued gladly the worde so lykewise Philip did baptise the steward of Quene Candace Howe the places aleged by the Anabaptestes ought to be vnderstanded IO. Both the places and examples which thou hast brought aleged ought to be vnderstanded of them that are of age and not of chyldren Christ did not sende hys disciples to preche the gospel vnto chyldreÌ„ but vnto theÌ„ the were of age had the vse of reason Nor we do not teache that children ought to be baptised in those places wher the gospel was neuer preched But wher the word of god the holy gospel hath ben both preched also receiued by faith it is no dout but there it is both taught beleued that the childreÌ„ are of god and that it is the wil of god that the childreÌ„ which be of god should be sealed with baptism in a maner brought vnto god The doctrine is greter theÌ„ that baptism Therfore they are not excluded from the people of god but are receyued and rekened emonge the people of god Or elles tell me Symon whether of the twoo is greater baptisme or the doctryne SIMON The doctryne is greater than Baptysme IOIADA What is the doctrine SIMO The holy gospel For Marke saith Go thoroughout all the wholle worlde and preche the gospell vnto euery creature Mathewe lykewyse Teache them to kepe what soeuer I haue commaunded you IOIADA Dothe then thys gospell teache that the chyldren are not of God SIMON No elles it should be harder more vnmercifull then the lawe IOIO Doth Christ coÌ„mande his discyples to preache that chyldren oughte too be reiected and caste awaye SIMON Noo But rather he dothe chyde hys dyscyples because that they rebuked theym that broughte children vnto hym IOIAD Thus I doo conclude then syth that in these wordes of Chryste Teache Baptise the doctryne is more excellente and greater and yet chyldren are not forbydden it but rather broughte vnto it It foloweth that they are not forbydden baptysme which is lesse Infantes that dye without baptisme are notte dampned but rather ought to be brought vnto it Thus it is manyfest and playne that thys commaundement of Christ standeth with vs and not with you SI It shuld folow that the infants which die wout baptism are not dampned IO That foloweth plainly also this dothe folowe that thou being ouercoÌ„men with the truth dost seke how to bring me into an other purpose least I should bind the more straightly SIM I confesse that I can say nothinge againste so manyfest truthe But I haue broughte this of the children to the intent that thou shuldest teache and instructe me in thys poynte IOIA. Iustifying saluatyon is much lesse bound to the outward elements theÌ„ in tymes passed in the law Why the infante is baptised Heb. ix chap The infante therfore is not baptized for this intent that by baptism that is to saie by the outward wasshyng of water he shuld be made the child of god but he is therfor baptized because he was afore the child of god throughe grace promise Wherefore if they die afore that the water of baptism be poured vpon theÌ„ they are neuertheles the children of god are saued through the grace and promysse of god by the force strength of the couenaunt by the satisfactioÌ„ of Iesus Christ that he made on the crosse for all mankynde In the generalitye of mankynd not only they that are of age but also children are included SIMO By thys meane we shuld nede no baptisme For if the chylde is alredye before the chyld of god what good doth the water wherby this also should folow that baptisme is bare water We ought to speake reuerently of the Sacramentes The outewarde elementes signes beinge omitted lefte in necessytie can not dampne one The baptisme of bloude IOIAD We must speake more reuerently of the sacramentes None of the faithfull is so alligated and bound to the elementes and outward thinges that they may condemne him if they be omitted and left in necessitie for the bloude of Iesus Christ hath clensed him I do call necessitie as when a chyld departeth before baptism or wheÌ„ a man beyng conuerted to the faith is afore he can be baptyzed taken to martyr doâ—n which thing was often times done in the primitiue churche for vnto hym the crosse was in steade of baptisme wherefore the auncient fathers did call it the baptisme of bloud Howbeit no man ought to neglecte or contempne the order that Christ hath instituted nor to despyse baptisme if he may haue it If he contempneth or doth neglect to receiue baptisme when he may haue it he is noo christian but the disciple of Iulianus Porphirius For if baptism were vnprofitable Christ would not haue instituted it All thinges that Christe hath gyuen and lefte vntoo vs are excellente holye and profytable Ergo baptism is not onely profitable vnto vs but also moste necessarye Farther more we do adde thys also that baptism touchyng the mattyer is water and yet it ought not to be coÌ„temned and cast awai or estemed as the comon water of the well For the water is onely parte of it and a certayne signe The whol action of baptisme conteyneth great
The Anabaptystes do teche the thynges that they can not proue by the scryptures IOI That ye Anabaptistes are agayn ouerthrowē and that ye haue taught that thing whiche ye could not proue by the scriptures and yet for all that ye are so obstacle and stubburne that ye wyll in no wyse gyue place vnto the truth Who woulde haue beleued the to be so stiffe necked that I should be fayne to dryue the to it wyth the scripturs SIM What make these thinges to the baptizing agayn IOI Very muche for if the doctryne of Ihō and the doctrine of Christ be al one their baptisme alsoo is all one There is no exaumple of baptizinge again in all the scryptures Ergo ye haue no example at all of your rebaptizatyon or baptyzing gayne Also they whome mentyon is made of Actes .xix. Chapter could not haue bene baptyzed wyth the baptisme of Ihon. that is done in the water and againe be rebaptized by Paule For so they shoulde had bene twise baptized with one baptism of water and the one should had abolisshed the other which thing can not be done by no mean For theyr baptisme is all one SIM Thou sayest ryghte well yf there were onelye one baptisme There is onely one baptysme which the anabaptystes do deuyde The doctrine is more excellente then baptisme IOIA. Ye do not onely deuide the churche but also baptysme I do bring against the the wordes of Paul which saith Chryst hath sent me not to baptyse but to preache the gospel Now I do aske the whether of these two is more excellent the doctryne of the Gospell or the baptysme SIMO The doctryne is more excellente then baptisme for baptisme is annexed and ioyned to the doctryne IOIADA If Christe and Ihō do agre in the doctryne it foloweth that they did also consent and agre in the baptysme ergo theyr baptysme is all one SIMON It can not be alone for the Apostles and Christe dydde baptyse in the name of Iesus alsoo in the name of the father of the sonne and of the holye ghost Ihon dyd not so Ergo it can not be all one baptysme IOIADA Christ hym selfe dyd not baptyse but hys Apostles in hys name Ihon .iiii. Chapter Ihon .i. Chapter Marke .i. Chapter Iuke .iii. Chapter Ihon and the Apostles dyd baptise in the name of Iesus Ihō .iiij. Cha. Where as thou sayest that Ihon dyd not baptyse in the name Iesus thou doste greatlye erre For Ihon .i. Chapter Mar. i. chap also Iuke the thyrd Chapter it is most manyfest and playne by his own words that Ihon dydde baptyse in Iesus For there he doth expound his baptysme sayinge I doo baptyse wyth water but he that shall come after mee wyll baptyse you wyth the holye ghoste What other thing is thys but that I do prepare you to Christe whyche shall make you perfecte Is not thys to baptise in the name of Iesus In what I praye the dyd the apostles baptyse but in the name of Iesus Actes .ii. Chapter Actes .ii. Chap. Se nowe what thou hast wonne truely none other thing but that with thine own wordes thou haste confyrmed and proued that theyr baptisme is all one SIMON Yet he dyd not baptyse in the name of the father the sonne and the holye ghoste IOIA. Although Ihon did not know Christ to be one god with the father the holy gost Whereby it shoulde folowe that when Ihon dyd baptyse and sende or directe men vntoo Iesus that he dyd baptyse directe or sende them vntoo a bare man Whych thinge how vngodly it is who doth not see Ihon Baptist dyd knowe Christe to be the sonne of god equall with the father in all thynges he knew also that the spirite of god did inhabyte and dwell in hym whych was geuen vnto hym after no measure Ihon .i. Chapter but of whose fulnesse all men did receyue Ihon .i. Chapter For this cause he attributeth so muche vntoo Christ that he did send all men vnto him and prepared the people for hym Farthermore he dydde baptyse theym in the name of Iesus because that he knewe hym too be one god with the father and the holy ghost SIM These be thy reasons not the word of god IO. I wyl proue the these thinges by the worde of god When Ihon did baptise Christe in Iordan the heauens did open he did se the spirit of god descending and comming doun vpō him And behold a voice from heauen saying Thys is my welbeloued son In whō I am pleased Who wil say now that Ihon knew not the father the holy gost Ihon .iij. Ihon .iii. Chapter Chap. He dothe celebrate and set furth with manye goodly praises the maiestie of Christe emong al other thynges speakyng after this maner He whō god hath sent speaketh the word of god For god doth not geue hym the spiryte after a measure The father loueth the son and hath giuen al thynges into his hand These thinges doo testifye and wytnesse that Ihon dyd knowe ryght well the mistery of the trinitie and vnytye in Christe SIMON I graunt that he did know as thou saiest yet it foloweth not therby that Ihō did baptyse in the name of the father the sonne and the holy gost IO. It foloweth plainely For I do aske the whether he that baptizeth in Christ doth baptyse in man or in god SIMO In god truely IOIA. Nowe I aske whether Christ touching his own godheade be seperated from the father the holye ghost SIMO No for there is but one god onely IOIA. Now make thine argument after this maner Christe Iesus touching his diuine nature is not dyuyded from the father and the holy ghost And he that baptizeth in Iesus baptizeth not in his humain nature but in his diuine and godly nature Ergo he that baptizeth in Iesus baptizeth in the father and the holye gost Ihō as it is proued before did baptise in Iesus Christ that is to say in hym that should come after him Ergo Ihon dyd baptise in the father the holy gost for these sentences are of lyke syngnificacion and importaunce he did baptise in god he did baptise in Iesus Christ he dyd baptise in the name of the father the sonne and the holy gost For there is one god onely vnto whom we are brought and grafted by baptisme SIMO I neuer vnderstode this thyng afore for I thought that Ihō had onely begon with hys baptism but that the baptisme of Christe had thē at length begonne when he dyd sende his apostles in the last chapter of Mark and of Mathew Whiche thyng if it were true the baptisme of Ihon and the baptisme of Christ coulde not be all one IOIA. Of thys dyd come and springe the errour of of the Anabaptistes Because that they thinke that baptism was thē ordeyned instituted after that Christe did ryse from death And I do merueyle that they did falle in too thys errour sithens that with playne testymonyes
of the scryptures it is set forth and expressed that Christ had by his apostles baptized before his death and afore that they had receiued the holy ghostes Ihon .iii. Ihon .iii. and .iiii. Chapter and .iiii. Chapter After thys Iesus dyd come and his discyples into the lande of Iuery and there he did abyde with them and did baptise Ihon also dyd baptyse before Christ wherfore he was called baptyste SIMON Ergo baptysme hath hys beginnynge and institutyon of man IOIADA Truly Ihon was a man whych thing no man can denye yet notwythstanding his doctryne and baptysme were not of man but of God Math. xxi Chapter Mathewe one and twenty Chapter But it is called the baptysme of Ihon and of the apostles not because it is theyrs but because it is mynystred by theym I wyll speake more playnely Math. xi Chapter how thys sayinge The lawe and the prophetes were tyll Ihō cam Christ Mathewe .xi. Chapter saythe that the law and the prophetes were tyll Ihon came whereby Christe doth shew that the thynge that the Prophetes dyd afore prophecye to be or too come was more fullye set furthe and declared by the preachyng of Ihon. For the thynges the afore by the prophetes were prophecied to come vnder darke fygures of wordes the selfe same thinges are sette furthe by Ihon as fulfylled and presente Ihon begynneth wyth hys baptsme the gospell and newe testament and are in a maner shewed with the fygure The lawe had a misticall lambe Ihon dydde shewe the true lambe wyth hys fynger Ihon therfore doth begyn first the gospell and the newe Testamente and sheweth that the Messias is come It was necessarye then that he should abolisshe the olde sygnes and chaunge them into other that should be without bloud worthy of the new testamente Circumcyon is chaūged intoo baptisme For circumcision was chaunged into baptysme Therfore Ihon beginneth baptisme first as a signe or seale of the people of God But let vs heare his owne wytnesses and testimonyes of that thynge Math. iii. Chapter Mat. iii chap When he did se manye of the Pharyses and Saduces cōming too his baptysme that they also might receiue baptism of him he said vnto them Bryng ye furth frutes worthy of repentaūce By the whiche wordes Ihon doth plainlye declare wherfore for what purpose vse he did minister baptism although he shuld saie It shal not be sufficiēt to haue your body wasshed in the water but rather this ye must haue a respect vnto that ye be new mē that ye be sory and repente of your mysdeedes that are passed and take heede of them that are to come There is no cause why ye shuld boste your selues to be the children of Abraham onlesse ye do folow the fayth of Abraham What did Abrahā he dyd beleue in god hee was obediente vnto the worde of god hee dyd approue hym selfe or shewed hym selfe faythfull in all thinges vnto the same god For I say vnto you the god is able to rayse vnto Abraham Chyldren of these stoones that is to saye of the gentils Now also the axe is laid to the roote of the tree What is to be vnderstanded by the vnprofitable bowes wher wyth the vnprofytable braunches that bring forth no fruyte are cutte of That is to saye the bowghes that dyd growe of the naturall olyue tree I meane thee vnfaythefull Chyldren beynge cutte of and cast awaye from the Testamente of god shal be destroyed and burnt Vnderstande therfore my wordes a ryght Prepare your heartes agaynst the comming of the Messias the newe king I do baptise you wyth water and in a maner initiate you or giue you the first instruction in the religyon of Christ to the intente that ye be such the wil repente receiue Christ When he is receiued he shal baptise you with the holye ghoste that is to saye Too baptism with thē holi ghost he shal seale and make you perfect with his holy spirite he shall pardon and forgeue you your synnes he shall also endue you wyth fyer that is to saye wyth feruente charytye Study wyth all diligence to receyue hym worthely c. By these testymonies we do conclude and gather that Ihon dydde baptyse fyrste and that he dyd also baptise in Christe The apostles after that they had receyued Christ dyd vse none other baptysme but the same that they had learned of Ihon. Yea Christe hym selfe was alsoo baptyzed in the baptysme of Ihon. The baptisme of Ihon is the true baptisme els Christ was not well baptized Yf Ihons baptysme is not trewe it foloweth that Chryste was not truely baptyzed and that he oughte too be baptyzed agayne Who is soo madde too say so Ergo the baptysme of Ihō is the true baptisme whych Chryst dyd confyrme and sanctyfye in him selfe SIMON I doo agre vntoo all these thynges but what doo they make agaynste rebaptyzatyon IOIADA Thys trewlye that the men of Ephesus whome mentyon is made of Actes the nynetene Chapter Were not baptyzed again syth that the baptisme of Christ and the baptisme of Ihon be all one Yf they were not baptyzed agayne the anabaptistes haue no example at all of theyr rebaptyzation Whereby it foloweth that theyr rebaptyzatyon is not of God For they deuyde that one onelye baptysme Paule sayth One god one fayth one baptysme whyche is in the churche of god wythout the whych there is noo baptysme Syth then that the anabaptystes do forsake the church The anabaptistes haue no baptisme yea do deuide the churche and are felowes of herytykes they haue noo baptysme For they are not in the churche of Christe Ergo. theyr rebaptyzatyon is repugnaunte vntoo GOD and is nothynge elles but a newe secte agaynste the vnytye of the churche Obiection both foolyshye and chyldyshe SIMO But thou doest dissēble this that they do abhorre the baptisme of the busshop of Rome none otherwise then in tymes passed the holy fathers dyd abhorre the baptysme of heretykes or minystred by heritykes For they that had bene baptyzed by herytykes and scysmatikes were baptyzed agayne IOIA. Who dydde euer baptyse men wyth the baptysme of the Busshoppe of Roome Dyd the busshop of Roome begyn baptisme SIMON No Ihon did begyn baptisme but the busshops of Rome did adde manye thinges of theyr owne IOIADA The thynges that were added by the busshop of Roome as salte Oyle coniurynges c. are they baptisme or parte of baptysme Thoughe the byshoppes of Roome haue added many thyngs to baptisme yet it ought not to be called the baptisme of the Byshope of Rome SIMON Neyther of them for then neither Christ nor Ihon had baptyzed truely whyche dyd not adde those thinges IOIADA If these new added thinges are not baptysme nor yet parte thereof whye do ye call it then the baptysme of the busshop of Roome Or was euer anye man that dyd baptyse in the name of Clemente Bonyface Leo or Gregorye SIMO No manne IOIADA In