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A48300 Something by way of testimony concerning Clement Lake of Crediton in Devonshire with something he wrote in his life time by way of answer unto John Flavell, independent preacher of Dartmouth. Lake, CLement, d. 1689.; Flavel, John, 1630?-1691. 1692 (1692) Wing L186; ESTC R32449 16,488 34

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giveth in those sweet and blessed Comforts to his People And is it not there he poureth out his Wrath on the Wicked And is it not in the Heart that he is striving with the Children of Men to reclaim them by his motions And Mens Disobedience to it is a grieving of him and rebelling against him 1. Thes. 5. 19. And it seemeth to me that any man that hath Reason or Religion should be satisfied with this account unless those that will Unchristian others that they might be thought the best Christians themselves and bespatter others that themselves might shine And So I have answered the first four Charges and if I am besides the Truth I desire it may be manifested to me in a few Lines I look on it as a Just and Reasonable thing that before any Man Unchristian another that first they prove there own Position to be according to Truth And Secondly that they prove those Persons guilty of denying those Truths for which they Unchristian them which neither is done in thy Letter but by a bare say so as if it must be true because it is said and said by such a one but it is no new thing such there were in the dayes of old Rev. 2. 9. But he that hath the Key of David hath opened a Door to us that no man can shut and by this little strength we have kept his word and have not denyed his Name Rev. 3. 8 9. For which the People are angry that we do not as they have done And nothing less then to Unchristian us will serve But what if the day should come that you should acknowledge the Lord hath loved us sure it would be a great change I shall not inlarg any furher to speak of the five last things but may refer them until I have the answer from them from whom it is expected and as I have said formerly wherein I am beside the Truth in what I have written let it be signified to me in a few lines who am a well-wisher to the prosperity of Sion and desire the Good of all men Clement Lake We are not the People we are reported to be for we are falsely represented to the World by those who have made Lyes there refuge Esa. ●8 15. And under falshood have hid themseves But Judgment the Lord will lay to the Line and Righteousness to the Plumet and the Haile shall sweep away the refuge of Lyes verse 17. A Second Letter sent to me from John Flavell which is an Answer to my former Letter the seventh of the eight Month 1687. Clement Lake I Received lately an Answer to my Letter written many Years since to preserve you from Quakerism whether this Answer were made by you or others I examine not for it is nothing to the purpose our point is not what you believe But what is the known published Doctrine of the Quakers from which my care was to preserve you I told you that a Quaker owning the professed Principles of Quakerism cannot be a Christian and instanced in several Fundamental Points of Christian Doctrine denyed by them to all of which you gave me your own private Judgment in Scripture terms which seemeth generally sound as I hope you still remain in your own Principles But what is this to the Doctrine of that People with whom you now walk forsaking those Assemblies where first you found Christ if ever you found him I am only concerned to prove my Assertions that Quakerism overthroweth Christianity and this is plain by what followeth which I take not up upon Reports at Random but give it you out of their own printed Discourses First He cannot be a Christian that rejects the Scripture as a Rule But so do the Quakers Toldervy in his Book page 6. saith That searching the Scriptures is not the way to find out the mind of Christ but the turning of the mind to within One Mason in his defence of Cravon page 12. saith Did Paul or any of the Apostles walk by any letteral rule or was not their rules a measure of the Spirit of God committed to every one of them Nayler in his Book against ●ohn Rayner speaks thus of us who differ from him Their Law is without their Light without their Church without all which we witness to be within Farwell then say I to the written word Secondly He cannot be a Christian that affirmeth Perfection and Freedom from Sin on this side Heaven 1 John 1. 8. This hath been often asserted in my hearing by the Quakers and is Printed by Mason in page 3. of his Book quoted from Ephes. 4. 12. Concluding thus Were England's Blind Watch-men Commissioned from Christ they would not thus prate against Perfection Thirdly He cannot be a Christian that maketh no distiction between the Godly and the Ungodly but doth affirm that Christ enlightens every man that cometh into the World with a saving Light but so did John Stubs George Fox and many others affirm it and defend it in a set dispute with Mr. Wiggon in the Printed dispute Page 13. Labouring to prove that every man in the World hath the Spirit of Christ savingly in him from 1 Cor. 12. 7. If so we must alter the whole frame of cripture and Christian Religion And as to Christ's imputed Righteousness how slighting doth Nayler speak of it as a Doctrine of ours Page 20. of his Book but I need go no farther I could instance in many great points more as that of the Resurrection of the Body which hath been once and again denyed by the Quakers to my Face and that with scorne and contempt of my ignorance for affirming it so that I speak not uncharitably or untruly when I said what I did of their Opinions It may be you will say these were But perticular Persons and you reject there mistakes I say they were the leading men of your party and how shall we know your Opinions but from there Books as for you I pray the Lord would preserve you sound in the faith and return you to your first Love to his Saints and Ordinances I am full of compassion for your Soul and remain your Friend John Flavell An Answer to John Flavell's Second Letter sent 1687 to him from Clement Lake of Crediton in Devonshire I Received thy Letter and by it understand that thou hast received mine which thou dost question whether made by me or others I assure thee that no other but my self did indite or write one Line or passage of that or this thou tellst me again that a man owning the professed Principles of Quakers can not be a Christian and that thou didst instance in several Fundamental Points denyed by them to which I replyed they were false Charges and to all of them I should give my reply as my own private Judgment which was seemingly sound This is another abuse seeing I said it was the Faith of those called Quakers also and the Faith of those with whom I walked But it seems