Something in ANSWER To a BOOK called Fiat LUX BEING A Discourse between a Papist and a Protestant c. who writes at the bottom of the Title Page J.V.C. ALSO Something in Answer to the Papists QUERIES London Printed in the Year 1667. Something in Answer to a BOOK CALLED FIAT LUX HE speakes in his 20th Page Of waging of War Battel and Contention like Boys and Dogs in the Streets who tear and devour one another such as are jumpt up together unheard of c. Answ Hath not this been your condition who have started up after the Apostles Or were ever the Papists heard of with all your Body of Inventions in the Apostles dayes that be like Boyes and Dogs fighting and tearing to pieces others that will not conform to your trifling Traditions and empty Ceremonies Yea and with such as follow the Apostles Doctrine and do not presume above what is written according to the Apostles Doctrine and because such cannot submit to your Rudiments which you have presumptuously set up Have you not burnt many to ashes which is far worse than Boyes and Dogs c. And whereas thou queriest in Page 29. Whether the Word of God came to you Quakers c. Or Came it to you only c. Answ The Word of God came unto us before we preached it which is the same which was among the Apostles and is the same which was yesterday to day and for ever But you Papists and Protestants and others are gone from this never changable Word as is manifest by your trifling Traditions who hold them up by carnal Weapons contrary to the Apostles and the Quakers which are spiritual And whereas thou queriest Whether the Gospel came to the Pope and Papists first We answer No. For the Gospel of Christ which is the Power of God was preached to Abraham but the fruits of you Papists and others have denyed your selves to be in this Gospel to wit the Power of God which brings Life and Immortality to Light by your dark Inventions and Traditions Persecutions and Oppressions which is not nor was not the Gospel-Practice as look among the Apostles writings in the Primitive Church and see how far you are degenerated from them And thou sayest That the Spirit the Word the Lord the Light and such like are Motives of a new Fancy Answ To the Papists and others like unto them that be out of the Spirit Light Word and the Lord and have cast him and the Apostles behind their backs and followed their own Inventions and have persecuted one another for not observing them who are in your fancies the Spirit Light Word and the Lord are new fancies to you but to us they are substance who set up and tolerate your lies by your Laws and prefer them before the Lord his Spirit Word Light and Truth which were and are the Guide of the Righteous to this day amongst whom your Inventions were never heard off before your day which all are to beware of And Them that be Hereticks thou sayest are to be checked twice or thrice and then to be avoided To which we Answer This hath not been the Papists practice to them that you suspect to be Hereticks that joyn not to your Popish wayes for you Burn and Persecute them to Death but if you had left them after you had admonished them ye had done something according to Scripture but on the contrary you shew thereby that you have no Love to Enemies no Sun to shine upon the Unjust not having the mind of Christ nor of his Apostles nor no Sons of God but of the Pharisees brood And whereas thou speakest of the Church Interpreting Scriptures How can the Papist Church Interpret Scriptures when the Jesuites have said to our faces that they have not the same spirit that the Prophets and Apostles had And seeing Christ saith The Spirit of Truth shall lead you into all Truth and the Apostle saith That no man knoweth the things of God but the Spirit of God And John saith in the Revelationss to the Churches Hear what the Spirit saith There fore the Papist Church not having the same Spirit they cannot interpret Scriptures so they are judged out of their own mouthes And the Spirit of God doth lead to hate the works of the Devil who was a lyar from the beginning and all his Children do his will and who have done his will more then the Papists yea worse than the Pharisees for they never invented so many Racks and Tortures as ye have done and burnt so many to ashes since Boneface the third the Universal Pope set up by Phocus the Emperour And so ye that scoffe at the Light c. not having the same Spirit and Power as the Apostles had you 'l Rack and Torture and Imprison and Burn to ashes your Friends for how can ye discern them not having the same Spirit the Apostles had We think you Papists Protestants Presbyterians Independants and Baptists might agree for they confess the same that you do viz. That they have not the same Spirit the Apostles had then ye have another for there is but two Spirits and it 's much ye should make such a noise one against another and cannot agree But your Inventions are old and theirs are new and both things in Gain to you which maintains your Lusts and that raiseth your war one against another which they that are in the Spirit the Apostles were in see over you all and they that be in the Spirit have both Visions and Prophesies and by it hath Miracles been wrought which some of your Generation hath said as the Pharisees did to Christ That they were wrought by the power of the Devil And whereas thou sayest Page 51. The Roman Catholicks brought the news of Christ and Christianity into the Land first Answ We say No. Christ and Christianity was brought into this Land of England by Joseph of Arimathea and twelve Disciples sent by Philip the Apostle above 70 years after Christ which was many hundred years before there was any Universal Pope and many years before any Mass was set up And whereas thou speakest in Page 53 of such as say of Christ Loe he 's here Loe he 's there We Answer This is just your own condition for do you not make a Christ of Bread which you call your God and lift him up and when you have eaten up one you make another lift him up and carry him about streets crying The Hoast and call it the Sacrament of the Altar and when you have eaten him up also do you not make another and cry Loe here loe there is Christ But the Quakers when they have received Christ preach him as the Aposties did when the Son of God is revealed in them c. And Jobs words now adayes are not so easie to answer as thou thinkest for why have not you Papists answered all the Quakers Queries that have been put to you Thou mayest say We want Queen Mary
is able to bring him down again for he is of the Image part Iron part Clay which I would have him to expound What good doth your Confession do where there is not amendment For what People under the Sun are more Envious Proud Drink Swear Curse and many unclean Actions found in and amongst as yours be And whereas thou sayest Page 232. The Confession nor any beginning thereof cannot be found out Answ Therefore you go upon a foundation which had 〈◊〉 bottom for in the beginning in the Primitive times the Apostles did not set up any Confessors therefore you are shut out of their Practice And whereas thou speakest Of inflicting penalties of Scourging or Death upon Delinquents though they be never so sorry for their Offence Answ In this is much Ignorance because that you and others have persecuted one another to Death because you would not conform to one anothers Religion which shews you are like Nebuchadnezzar and worse then the Jewes in some respect for did they Persecute any of the Heathen to death because they would not joyn to their Religion Though in one respect you are like unto the Jewes who said Come let us kill the Heir and the Inheritance shall be ours And were not they called Murderers And have not you crucified Christ afresh and put him to an open shame As instance the Pope Eugenius who caused the King of Poland to break his Oath and League with the Turk upon which he lost a great part of Christendom who seldom got any thing by fighting or plotting with his Carnal weapon But if the Papists had been true Christians they would have loved one another and have loved Enemies But there is no mercy from you although a man be never so sorry for his Offence but Death and Scourging but thy thoughts and mind are not the Lords who desireth not the death of a sinner but would have him repent and live And therefore What hast thou to do to take the Name of the Lord into thy mouth and hatest to be reformed And as for the Apostle Paul's words which he spake as in the person of Christ what is that to your practice who speak in the spirit of Satan as ye may look over your words and actions in Fox's Acts and Monuments and the Council of Trent and other Books who shewed another spirit and life than Christ and the Apostles for Christ came to save mens lives not to destroy them as ye have done who do not know what spirit ye are off And whereas thou speakest Of some places where the People are on their knees at Prayer all the week long and our Churches are not so in England Answ Ye were not at your Prayers all the week long when ye had power in England and were burning the Martyrs to ashes up and down at Stakes The Wolf is seen though he hath the Sheeps cloathing on his back thou canst not be hid but the wise and prudent see and comprehend thee and the prayers of the wicked are an abomination to the Lord. For hath it not been a Fist of wickedness that ye have lifted up these many hundred years Doth not and hath not your actions declared and spoken them abroad in the ears of sober People Where is the House of Prayer thou speakest of Is it the Temple at Jerusalem which thou art wandring to That 's down according to Christ's Prophesie And the Apostles say Our Bodies are the Temples of the holy Ghost and in the Holy Ghost we are to pray And is not that the Temple set above all houses made with hands and so the Apostle saith we must pray in the Spirit and so we must pray in the Temple but this I doubt thou canst not read with thy Spectacles on And whereas thou sayest Ye have kept your Mass and Bible in an unknown Tongue and yet you call your selves Catholick Answ This is not Catholick from the Apostle for he was against them that spake in an unknown tongue that was not to edification and he reproves it so ye are come under the reproof of the Apostle And the Apostle sent Epistles to be read to the Churches in their age and now you that have put the Bible in an unknown Tongue and kept your people under teaching ever since Boniface the third are not your People capable yet to have the Scriptures read to them in their own Tongue This manifests your Popish Teachers bad and your Peoples ignorance and your own deceit and fear of your selves if the people should have them in their own Tongue they would see you And whereas you make a distinction of Lay people and Spiritual and yet all Believers if they were so indeed they would be all born of God And the Apostles in the Primitive time made no such distinction as Lay people and Spiritual among Believers c. as ye do But ye have been in the dark and your works are all in the dark and so ye keep the Scripture from the people in their own Tongue whereby they might come to know the Truth And the holy Scriptures are a better Book than any ye can make which stands over you and your Mass Book As for all your perverting Scriptures thereby thinking to bend them to your Traditions and Images they that have a single eye fees it 's to no purpose And as for calling upon Saints Angels and Martyrs to pray for you to have mercy upon you for which you have neither Scripture nor Example from the Apostles And wheras thou ignorantly and pervertingly bringest Davids words and Daniels for the praying to Angels c. and the Sun and Moon David nor none of the Saints nor Martyrs of old did call to the Sun Moon Angels or Saints but they called for all things to praise the Lord for whilst they were living the Saints prayed one for another but to pray to Saints departed is like Sauls going to the Witch of Endor to ask counsel of the Dead which was forbidden by the Law of God So in this you are ignorant both of Law and Gospel Many other frivolous things thou hast in thy Book not worth reading or answering But one thing further whereas thou saiest The Church of Rome is the Mother Church Was not the Church of Jerusalem before the Church of Rome was Read the Scriptures And was not the Church at Constantinople preferred before the Church of Rome Read over the Histories again And for the Church of Rome being either Mother Church Holy Church or Church of God her actions and deeds testifie against her she 's none of the Church of Christ though she pretend for Christ yet she is against Christ his Faith Spirit and Life and so Antichrist her deeds and works have spoken it which all that be in the Light Spirit and Life of Christ have seen and heard And how can ignorant people but smile at you as thou saiest who make Bread and Wine God which will sowre and corrupt Some Scriptures follow here
and Bishop Bonner who answered by Fire and Faggot to the destruction of the Righteous for that hath been your way of answering but this hath never been the work of the Church of Christ nor of godly Rulers as thou speakest of And whereas thou sayest in Page 93. The Holy Church hath alwayes in all Ages forbidden her Children to Dispute the Principles of Religion in the sence they had received them Answ This is the Papists Church not the Holy Church and its Principles and it is false as to the Holy Church they were to be ready to give an account to every man of the Hope that is in them with meekness and fear which Hope is Christ And the Apostle declared plainly when brought before the Magistrates how Christ appeared to him and how he was sent to Preach And the true Church was to contend for the Faith which was delivered to the Saints and they were to speak in the same sence of Faith which they had received For the Apostles said They were to warn every man that they might present every man perfect in Christ Jesus And so it 's plain that the Apostles and the Prophets spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost in the sence of what they received And whereas thou sayest That all Christians are to acknowledge a new Pope c. To which we Answer No. The Christians that now are as also in the Primitive times are Brethren and it is not among them as it was amongst the Apostates which are as the Gentiles who exercise Lordship one over another and those that do so are by you and them called Gracious Lords But Christ saith It shall not be so amongst you meaning his Disciples for ye are Brethren and ye have but one Master even Christ And as the Apostle saith In the world there are many Lords but to us there is but one even the Lord Jesus Christ who is Head of the Church Yea Head of that Church which the Saints upon the Earth then and which we now are Members of who is our Head the same to day yesterday and for ever though he is not so to the Papists And whereas thou speakest That by reason of the great obscurity of things we are led into so many differences Answ What is the reason indeed you with others are so dark and obscure that you are not in the same Spirit and Power that the Apostles were in and being out of it you go into so many Sects and Divisions And whereas thou speakest Of learning the Foundation upon which Faith is built To which we Answer Your works and others do testifie that you have forsaken both Foundation good Conscience and Faith that works by Love for the Historical or dead Faith works by hatred and the foundation of that is the Adversary the Devil And whereas thou speakest In England of some that pretend to a new Light To which we Answer That Christ is the Light who is the new and living Way It 's indeed a new way to you who are apostatized from the Light which the Apostles were in and the Life and Spirit the fruits whereof are Love c. But ye have manifested another spirit and fruits As remember the Burning in Smithfield and Cruelties in other parts as the Massacre in Ireland and other parts of the world your putting to death for your Religion which the Apostles did not for their Religion which Light of Christ was their Light which is now sprung up in England is become a new Light unto you who are workers of Darkness And whereas thou sayest The Quakers words are jumbled together so that every Line hath no sence in it and thou resemblest them to the Turks Alkaron To which we answer To you the Prophets Apostles and Christs words are not sense for if they were then what need you thrust all these words of small Letters into the Books of the Old and New Testament called the Itallick Letter signifying that they are no more sence to you than the Quakers Books who make an addition to them Therefore we do not strange at thy saying That our Writings are nonsence but we can say to you as Solomon saith That our words are all plain to him that is of Understanding And as for the Turkish Alkaron Whose Writings are nearer unto them than the Papists are Set all your old Images aside which you have neither out of the Old Testament nor of the New but from your own dreaming conceit that you speak of And whereas thou speakest Of the Presbyterian falling out with the Protestant and calling him a Fanatick the Catholick coming by and seeing them doth hope that they may come to their Goods again c. A. You want power to set up your Fire and Fagots again and you long after your Tythes and great Monastries and Gleab Land c. For if you had minded the good of Peoples souls why would so many thousands of you have turned from your Religion as your Priests and others in Queen Elizabeths dayes did And as for Fanatick-wrath fury rage and madness who hath manifested this spirit since the Apostles dayes more then you yea upon such as have professed the Name of Christ And while you and other Sects are falling out Truth will arise over all your heads as it was in England and other parts before the Pope and his Mass-Book or you Papists were And as for Catholick your actions and fruits have declared and testified against you to deny the Catholick Faith that works by Love and the Catholick Gospel and the Catholick Church with its Catholick Head And the Quakers have to war in the Spirit of God with you and also with all such as are in your Dreggs and be out of the same Spirit that the Prophets and Apostles were in And to the Querie in Page 188. We Answer That neither Protestants nor you have lived in Vnity these several hundred years for you have laid more stumbling blocks to hinder the spreading of Christianity then ever did Jezabel by Baals Priests And as for telling you of several hundred years it was above 600 years after Christ before any Universal Bishop got up And then the Turk got up after the Pope and he got from him near as much as all Christendom and then did not he lose Germany England Ireland Scotland Denmark Sweden and the Low-Coutries yea and Egypt Jerusalem and other parts that way and part of France and yet will not the Pope tell us that he is Head of the Church and that the Gates of Hell shall not prevaile against him And what strivings were there in Italy and Spain and other places before you set up your Inquisitions about the time of the Council of Trent And as for your Vaity let us tell you if you have forgotten Did the Waldenses ever joyn to you after the Pope got up Nay did not they gall him more then all and did not he send a Prince to destroy them and did not the
which ye may read your selves Isa 8.19 Psal 115.17 Something in Answer to the Papists Queries THou sayest in the 338 Page Apostacy is not only a renouncing of the Faith of Christ but the very Name and Title of Christianity and no man will say that the Church of Rome had ever such a fall as this A. The Faith of Christ that works by Love the Romish Church hath renounced and made shipwrack of and then what remains but a Form of godliness when the Power is denied and such are to be turned away from and such a Church as deny the Faith deny the Power and to profess Christ and Christianity in Words and deny him in Life and Power is Anti-Christ and this the Church of Rome is fallen into For many that kept the Title of Jews as you have done the Title of Christianity were found of the Synagogue of Satan so will you when you come to be proved and tryed by the faithful as they that said they were Jews and were not but lyars blasphemers and Synagogues of Satan Querie 2. If the Church of Rome did ever adhere to any singular or new Opinion disagreeable to the common received Doctrine of the Christian World I pray you satisfie me as to these particulars A. The Church of Rome have set up new Opinions by which they force their people to adhere to them contrary to all the Primitive Churches as all may see who will read but the Decrees Orders and Canons in your Church and that read the Epistles that were to the Churches in the Primitive times to be contrary to the Doctrine of the Primitive times as your making your God and Christ in your Bread and Wine your Crosses Crucifixes Reliques making of Ministers Pilgrims Popes and all your Body of Clergy together with their Orders and Garments that are nothing like the Way Worship and Practice of the Primitive Church which was the first among the Apostles And was not Rome degenerated when the Bishop would excommunicate all the Eastern Churches who was reproved sharply for it Qu. 3. Thou sayest By what General Council was the Church of Rome Condemned and by what Authority was she Reproved A. Three hundred and seven years after Christ the Bishop of Rome denyed Christ and sacrificed to Idols mark denyed Christ then he must deny Christianity when he took up another Religion then what did he bring the People of Rome to when he had sacrificed to Idols The Bishops Name was Mercelinus and he was condemned by a Council of 300 Bishops And here thou mayest see the Authority that reproved him before your Popish Religion See Eusebius in Pag. 36. Chronograp Was not the Bishop of Rome the first that Decreed that Priests should not Marry in the 399 year of Christ And then the first Council held at Toledo in Spain in the year of Christ 401 Decreed That Priests should Marry and so contradicted the Bishop of Rome And were they not once of the Sect of the Arrians and Reproved Look in Eusebius and you will see Reproofs enough Also you may read in Scripture what work the Apostle had with the Church of Rome how they were in his day going 〈◊〉 the Works of the Law from the Faith Also in the 423 year of Christ how that the Bishop of Rome passed the bounds of his Priestly Order in his presumption in challenging to himself the Secular Power and Authority who was reproved sharply and then a Council held in Affrica Decreed That no Bishop should be called The Head of all Priests That no Appeal should be made at Affrica to any other Bishop And so the Church was Ruled by Councils till Boniface the Third who got up to be Universal Bishop of all the World by the means of Phocus that murdered Mauritius the Emperour his Master after the 600 year of Christ and then came in the Pope the Turk and the Devil with all their Body and pelting Ceremonies Then did the Pope lose the greatest part of Christendome and the Emperor the greatest part of his Empire and so in succeeding Ages in stead of the Bible you brought into the Church Legends of Lyes as you may read Euseb Pag. 410. Qu. 4. Thou Queriest If ever the Church of Rome divided her self by Schisme from any other Body of faithful Christians to break Communion or went from the Society of any Elder Church what Company did she leave from what Body did she go forth where was the true Church which she forsook Answ She went from the practice of the Church in the Primitive times and from the Body of their Elders in all their dayes and hath forsaken their Society and Communion and divided her self from Christ the Head and hath set up another and is divided from all the Apostles and Elders Compare your own Canons which you use in your own Church with the Writings of the Apostles and you may quickly see from what Church Body and Company of faithful Christians and Elders you are all gâ—â—â—â—â— and erred from into another Faith Worship Life Power Gospel and Practice than Christ and the Apostles were in in the Primitive times For what one thing is it that the Church of Rome practiseth that is agreeable to theirs in all your Worship and your Teachers that hold it up who are maintained by oppressing the People and are upheld by carnal weapons and by them are all your dark Doctrines and Inventions set up and by Goals and Prisons and Tortures But the Elders which you have forsaken and Ministers and Apostles their Weapons were Spiritual and not Carnal as yours are who are sold under the sin far off the Redemption therefore do you destroy so many Lives not knowing what Spirit ye be of persecuting them that have the mind of Christ who came to save mens lives and to love Enemies and one another whose Doctrine ye deny THE END