believe that there is any essential or personal unity between this eternal Spirit and the Saints believers for such unity would either make the Spirit and Believers some third things Rep. Silence Flesh who art in confusion for thou hast nothing to do to talk of Unity nor this eternal Spirit which thou sayest is God and yet there is no eternal Unity with the eternal Spirit Query 2. Whether the Apostles did give a right meaning to the Scriptures when they gave them forth or left them to you to give the meaning of them yea or no Ans And thy answer is That in all the Scriptures they gave forth had a meaning with those Scriptures which they gave forth yet not alwayes so plainly that the meaning thereof might be rightly taken up by those that read them unless compared with some other Scriptures which they also have given out which have plainer sense in them and are helpful to expound them Rep. And hear thou leaves Spirit and thy confused stuff is issued out of thy Bottle who would make the Apostle a lyar who used plainness of speech and so the Scriptures were of no private interpretation nor came not by the will of man which thou in thy will art giving senses unto who sayest it is left to you to find out the sense and meaning who saith the letter contains contradictions thou lyar there is no contradictions in it but the contradictions is in thy self for where the same Spirit is made manifest as was in them that gave forth the Scriptures it owne it without any of thy senses and meanings who art in the number of the Beast here is wisdome let him that hath understanding count the number Obj. And whereas thou sayest Christ commands to search the Scriptures because the meaning lyeth deep in many places yet by searching what Scriptures lay together speak the sense may be gotten out Rep. Here thou art a lyar Did Christ bid them search the Scriptures to find out the sense of the Scriptures Here thou add'st to make people believe that there was life in the Scriptures when Christ saith not so but saith Ye will not come unto me that ye might have life And though they had the letter of the Scripture yet they knew not Christ therefore they were to come to him that they might have life which opens the Scriptures without thy sences or meanings for they had thought to have found life in the Scriptures as thou dost Object Another Scripture thou brings of Christ destroying this Temple and in three daies raise it up again Rep. And thou lyar thou sayest there is a sense in these words did he not speak plainly Here thou shewest thy self to be among them that gave a sence upon his words and could not understand his speech and as they did so dost thou who canst not understand plainness and hast cleared thy self from that Spirit that spoke forth these words and if you had that Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures you need not bring Scripture to interpret Scripture for the same Spirit that gave them forth will open all again but from this Spirit thou hast cleared thy self and thou art unlearned without the life in thy own sense and points Object And again thou sayest they are not left to put your own sense upon them Reply What is it but thy own sence when thou sayest God doth not intend to teach immediate or if it be not immediate it is carnal and natural And the carnal man knows not the things that are of God who lives in thy own sence Quer. 3. Whether plagues be not added to them who adde to the Prophesies written in this Book or whether his name be not to be diminished out of the Book of life who diminisheth or whether you can witness this Name yea or no Ans And thy answer is nothing to purpose or the Book of life or the new name thou shews thy self ignorant of therefore thou art unlearned and must be silent as thou art to it and let the Prophets Christ and the Apostles alone for they all spake by one spirit according to their growth and the fulfilling of the Scriptures Object But thou speaks of an Interpretation that agrees to the spirit of the Scriptures Reply That Interpretation we deny for you would have another Interpretator besides the Spirit and here thou shews thy self to be in thy fancy adding to whom the plagues of God are due who adds another interpretation besides the Spirit and thou art in the nature of all them who thou reckons up which art out of the truth Object Thou accusest the quakers for grand Impostures which they beguile people they bring the letter which serves for their purpose Reply This shall stand for thy own condition for thy impostures we abhor and here thou art a lyar I charge thee in the presence of the Lord as to say we bring the letter which serves for our purpose to deceive the people for every tittle of the Scripture is ours and we own them and do not deceive the people from the truth but such as you call Ministers which make a trade upon the Scriptures and lead people into darkness with your sences upon the Scriptures we deny And so here thou a t found the adder giving sences and meanings according to the Spirit as thou sayest and here thou makest it manifest that it is thy self that interprets and not the Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures which Spirit opens them again Object And thou sayest the sufficiency of the Scriptures do build men up to salvation Rep. Here thou set'st the Scripture before God and Christ who is the Saviour and perverts it had'st thou said they were able to make one wise to salvation through Faith in Christ Jesus but there thou art diminishing as to say the Scripture is sufficient to build men up to salvation Que. 4. Whether you have an infallible judgment to judg of things eternal yea or no Ans Thou sayest every man is darkness Rep. And there thou art in thy first estate who hath uttered forth many words to this Query out of thy confused mind Obj. Thou sayest them that the Apostles said knew all things which was but an hyperbolical expression and did import only much knowledg to be in them Rep. Here I charge thee in the presence of the Lord to be a perverter of the Apostles words and one that addeth John speaks no such word as hyperbolical therefore let thou John's words alone Here all may see whether thou speakest by the spirit or no. Object And thou sayest they that had received the Vnction had not an infallible judgment Rep. And here let all people take notice what thou speak'st from and yet thou sayest though they had the Spirit which if they have the Spirit to judg withal the judgment is infallible and thou belyes them and wrongs them for they knew the truth and that there was no lye of it and then they had an
your preaching tend thither and you say you do not preacâ— that Christ which you have seen with your bodily eyes for Christ is in heaven and not in earth not any other that lives upon earth hath heard of him and seen him Rep. O thou dark Sot Does any see Christ with their carnal eyes and know him Was it not said to the Apostle that flesh and bloud had not revealed it unto him wâ—en he said Thou art the Christ the Son of the living God and from this Revelation thou hast cleared thy self Ob. And thou sayest That Christ is in heaven and not in earth Rep. And here thou hast cleared thy self to be a Reprobate Ob. And thou sayest How shall they preach except they be sent Rep. And before thou denied'st as hearing any voice from heaven and denied immediate inspiration and how dost thou exalt Christ and knows him not and the framing of a Christ shall stand for thy own condition who art without and Saul seeing Samuel indeed saw the Devil and talked with him and had fellowship with him but saw not Samuel Ob. And thou sayest You do not give your assurance but you conceive Rep. Let all people see if thy preaching be not phancy and no assurance and to be scattered among the proud who live in their imaginations and conceivings and hast cleared thy self from the eternal Spirit and canst give no testimony of that which was from the beginning Ob. And thou sayest Thou givest not thine own assurance but you conceive and speak of the Apostles assurance Rep. Let the Apostles assurance alone for that we own who wiâ—ness assurance but deny thy conceivings Query 10. Whether you have this word which was from the beginning and this Life manifest unto you which was to the Apostlâ—s and if it be why do you take a text from the Letter and preach from it and shew the people that letter Ans And thy answer is Thâ—s Word and this Life which is Christ made manifest in the flesh and thou sayest The design in this question is to draw all persons from all that is written to depend upon an unwritten word something within them the word from the beginning and is the Life and is manifest as they gave it out Rep. This word is owned among them you call Quakers which was from the beginning which all the Apostles spoke from which is immediate which thou hast cleared thy self from and shews that thou hast nothing but the letter which is death and feeds people with that Object And thou sayest this sort of men which hath the immediate word doth the divel shew his spite spleen and malice against the holy Scriptures Rep. Here I charge thee in the presence of the Lord to be a lyar and in that state thy self for where the immediate word is which was in the beginning which gave forth the Scriptures it owns every tittle of it again and many Scriptures hast thou wrested for the taking of a Text which Christ and the Apostles spoke of the fulfilling of the Scriptures and shewed the fulfilling of the Scriptures and to bring men to Christ out of the letter into that thing the letter speaks of that they might not live in the oldness of the letter but in the newness of the spirit Ob. And thou sayest you take a text because the whole wâ—ll of God and mind of Christ is left you in letters which is now left us in words and letters in the Evangelists and Apostles writings and so you take a text from the letter and if the Gospel be hid it is hid from you that are lost whom the God of the world hath blindâ—d the mind of them that believe not Rep. Here thou speak'st thou know'st not what for if all should have been written which Christ spoke forth the world could not contain the books that might have been written of him and many could speak of his word but had not his mind therefore they persecuted him as thou dost and there thou shewest thy self to be him whom the God of the world hath blinded the mind who hath the letter of the Gospel but not that which it speaks of the Gospel the glad tydings the Son that was given but that is without thee and the letters of it thou hast but not the Gospel Object And thou sayest Saints do not as yet see Christ and yet Abraham saw his daies Rep. What confused stuff is this that comes out of thy boâ—tle these are thy Saints which do not see Christ and how dost thou exalt him The Saints witness Christ in them the mystery the hope of glory but thou hast cleared thy self from this Christ from this mystery from this hope of glory to be a Reprobate and an Anti-christ and from the faith of Abraham Query 11. And shew me where the Prophets did take a text and preach from it but only Christ read a place and said it was fulfilled who said he was anoynted to preach and which of you can witness you are anoynted to preach by the living God yea or no Ans And in thy answer to this Query thou speak'st whom God calls out to be to the body in place of eyes to guide and direct them and before you denyed as hearing any such voyce as from God Reply Here all people may see thy folly and thou dost not say that you are anointed to preach by the living God or how canst thou who hast denyed his voyce or immediate inspiration Obj. And thou sayest the Prophets did take no text but laid the foundation Reply And here thou hast cleared thy self from the Prophets Christ the Foundation and though Christ did read who fulfilled the Prophets who prophesied of him and Moses who wrote of him for he was the substance and the end and though they had Synagogues and Temple and Sabbath Day to read Moses the Law and the Prophets When Christ was come and sacrificed up and who believed and received him had received the end of the Law the end of the Prophets and the end of the Sabbath and they went into the Synagogues shewing the people the substance of what they had read and to bring them of the Temple the Sabbath days and observing of times which in all thy words thou clearest thy self from that life and doctrine but would keep people in observing of days and times and places and so shews thy self in the dark generation living long in a text and not witnessing it fulfilled as Christ did Obj. And thou sayest Christ might have discoursed of a subject many months who came to fulfil what was written of him Reply Here you would make Christ like thy self who art unlearned discoursing with thy carnal mind upon that which was given forth by an Eternal Spirit who art for death and destruction Quer. 12. Tell me why you sing Davids Conditions and Experiences in Moeter and when you read them hats you put on and when you sing them hats you put off Ans And thy
Object And whereas thou sayest we are against that which the Saints used Rep. Here I charge thee to be a lyar for the Saints practises we own but thy performances we deny Object And thou sayest we might be convinced that you are not in the condition of the Jews hours and prayers Rep. We find you in the same nature though under another colour and enemies to Christ Object And thou brings Acts 3. Rep. That will fit and maintain thee in the Jews estate all people take notice the Apostles did not go up to uphold the Jews hours and prayers but to bring them off those things and here thou hast uttered forth thy folly Object And thou sayest They strike at godliness Rep. Here I charge thee in the presence of God to be a lyar Object And whereas thou sayest If they can but destroy all forms the power will fall with it Rep. And here thou hast uttered forth thy folly indeed and blasphemy as though the form was before the power and here thou hast shewed thou hast no power but the form as the Apostles speaks of so thou plead'st for daies and hours and moneths which the Apostles speaks against And here thou hast cleared thy self from the Doctrine of the Apostles and the Lords day we own fâ—r all is the Lords and the Saints meeting we own but thine we do deny who denies immediate inspiration And what hast thou to do to talk of the Apostles meeting the first day of the week and worship of God who denies immediate inspiration and hearing Gods voice and denies immediate teaching for God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and truth and that thou canst not who denies immediate teaching thou hast got a likeness of a Church and so imitates the Apostles meetings the first day of the week and so hast got the form and not the power and because the Saints meet on the first day from their words thou gathers likeness which is forbidden and what Scriptures hast thou that it is named the Lords day when the Supper is nominated the Supper of the Lord we own and the day of the Lord but thou knowest nothing of the Supper of the Lord nor the day Obj. And in thy answer thou would'st make people believe we deny prayer Rep. And in that thou art a lyar and what hast thou to do to talk of Abraham and holy men of God who denies hearing the Voice of God and denies immediate Inspiration which the holy men of God witnessed Object And thou talk'st of Jacob purging away the Idols and reforming his family Rep. O man look at home and puâ—ge away the Idols from thy self for David and Jacob we own and do witness and the Saints will not deny prayers but such as thine who prayest and never heard the Voice of God nor immediate inspiration as thou hast confest it and dost not look for it and what good will all thy prayers do thee evening and morning we witness the Apostles words pray alwayes and praise with the spirit and understanding Here thou hast shewed thy self as the Priests of Baal who cut themselves who fasts and yet thou sayest let us seek Gods face in prayer and denies hearing Gods Voice Query 17. Whether do you not seduce the people to draw them from the anoynting within them when John saith They need no man to teach them but as the anoynting and the promise was eternal life to him that did abide in the anoynting Ans In thy answer to this Query thou sayest the word that Christ preached was outward Rep. And here I charge thee in the presence of the Lord to be a lyar for he said the word which he spoke was spirit and life and here thou draws people from the anointing to the Satanical delusion as thou calls it and publishes lies Obj. And thou sayest John's Ministry was outward and yet he came in the spirit and power Reply What confused stuff is this Here I charge thee again to be a lyar John's teaching we witness and Christs teaching we witness and deny thine which is outward and thou must needs be there for thou denyes immediate inspiration who draws people from the inward to the outward Here thou shews what thou art if there had been no reply and who puts no difference betwixt ears for there are ears and hears not and there are ears which hear and here thou shews thy self to be a false prophet who saith they are seduced which are drawn from the external means which is earthly let all people see if you be not that wiâ—ch that the Scripture speaks of that bewithed the Galatians in drawing them from the spirit within to observe circumcision without them who draws to the external who saith to wait for the receiving of the Spirit without any word is delusion Here thou goes about to make the Word and the Spirit two Obj. And thou sayest One was newly redeemed out of the hellish captivity Reply He is fit to be Ambassador of thy Church a drunkard one of thy redeemed ones There was a Warrant granted out against him for drunkenness fence he was redeemed as thou calls it Obj. And thou pleads much for mans teaching Reply Here thou shews plainly that thou art a Minister made by the will of man when Paul declares that he was not made a Minister by the will of man but by the will of God and here thou hast cleared thy self plainly from being a Minister made by the Will of God or taught of him Obj. And thirdly thou sayest The words You need not any man teach you but as the anointing teacheth you is an byperbolycal expression Reply Here I charge thee again to pervert the Apostles words Obj. And thou sayest the Apostle tells them they knew all things and thou sayest is is an excessive speech Reply And so thou goes about to make the Apostle a lyar and are giving a meaning to his words and wouldest give a comparative sencâ— as thou callest it to it and here thou shewest openly that thou dost both add wrest and pervert the Apostles words who shews thy self openly to be deceived who art giving private interpretations to the Scripture when the Scripture saith there is none and thou art perverting the Lords words who saith they shall all know him from the greatest to the least they shall not need to teach every man his neighbour and every man his brother for they shall all know me from the greatest to the least of them saith the Lord. Obj. And thou sayest there is no such measure of the spirit that can thrust out outward teaching while we are here Reply Here thou high blasphemer hast denyed the everlasting Covenant of God and while thou art there thou shalt never know it Obj. And thou sayest there is no such Scripture as to abide in the anointing that the Promise was Eternal life to him that did Reply And here thou dost neither understand the anointing nor the
Scripture Quer. 18. Whether you do not bewitch the people and draw them from the Spirit of God within you to observe those things which God never commanded to tell the people of a Sacrament and following your outward teaching who stands praying in the Synagogues and art called of men Master which Christ did forbid Mat. 23. And have the chiefest places in the Assemblies Whether these be not Antichrists which act contrary to the Commands of Christ yea or no. Ans In thy Answer to this Query thou sayest They strike at Pastors and Elders Reply Here thou art a lyar for the Query doth not mention Pastors or Elders Obj. And why dost thou say they speak of the Synagogues in a derisive way and that the title of Masters and assuming the chiefest places in the Assemblies to be ambition Reply And this thou seeks to clear and justifie which Christ cried wo against and shews thy self to be in the state of the Scribes and Pharisees as you may read Mat. 23. Let the letter judge thee if thou wilt own the Scripture And doth not Christ cry wo against them that are called of men Master and have the chiefest place in the Assemblies stand praying in the Synagogues Hâ—re â—hou shews thy self to be an opposer of Christs words who would justifie the worlds practise which he cryed wo against and so thou art a friend to the world and an enemy to Christ Obj. And thou sayest concerning the Sacrament ther is no Ordinance a foot amongst us which we call by that name though there might be a defence for it Reply Here thou shews thy self where thou was bâ—fore in making a defence for that which is not which â—here is no Scripture for And what hast thou to do to talk of Oâ—dinances the Blood of Christ and the Seals and the Faith and the Covenant of God who denyes his voyce and all who are taught of God hear his voyce and who are sealed are sealed with the Spirit but thou denyes the immediate inspiration and here thou clearest thy self from the Seals from the Covenant who saith men must be taught for all who are brought into the Covenant are taught of God and hear his voyce and need no man teach them which you deny Oh Lucifer like who talks of these things and cannot witness any of them but arâ— justifying Synagogues standing pâ—aying there which the Pharisees did O thou Fox thou are found out in all thy holes we who witness the Bâ—ood of Christ the Covenant the Seals and the Supper of the Lord deny all these things which you and the Pharisees held up which Christ cried wo against and here thou art reckoned and found amongst those despisers of the grace of God which never heard â—â—s voyce as thou sayest amongst the greatest sinners whichever blasphemed Christ though they proâ—essâ—d him in words â—o dost thou the world may justifiâ— thâ—â—e but that Christ which the Scripture speaks of if you wâ—ll own the Scriptures doâ—h condemn thee who holds up and pleads for these things which he cries wo against Obj. Secondly And for thy justification of outward teaching thou sayest it is the power of God to salvation Reply Here I charge thee in the presence of the Lord to be a lyar and knows not what thou speaks is the power of God outward and salvation which is a Mystery and here thou hast shut thy self out from the Mystery and art in thy will and a Minister made by the will of man which is outward Paul who was a Minister of the Spirit which was not outward made by the will of God here thou hast shut thy self from the Minister of the Spirit which ministers to the Spirit in prison and art a Minister of the Letter made by the will of man and holden up by man and thou wrests many Scriptures for to justifie the outward teaching as Mat. 4.13 14. Acts 26.16 17 18. and many other Scriptures and so puâ—s no difference betwixt the Ministers of the world which is outward and Christs Ministers and the Apostles which is immediate and inward by the Spirit and shews thou art not yet come to repentance to discern the right hand from the left He that hath ears to hear let him hear what the Spirit saith and that 's not outward And what hast thou to do to talk of the Apostles preaching Let the Apostles preaching alone for they denyed the Pharisees teaching I command thee in the presence of the Lord. Obj. And thou sayst the Apostle saith He rejoyced though some preach Christ from an envious spirit Reply Here thou adds to the Apostles words all people read Psal 1.18 though the Apostle did say then Some preach Christ of envy some of strife some of contention yet that was a time when few did believe that that was the Christ so his Name was spread abroad he rejoyced in it but when his Name was spread abroad and covetous men and proud men as thou art and heady men and men that followed pleasures had got the form but had not the power which led silly women captive always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth which thou shews thy self to be one of them and the Apostle exhorts from such to turn away 2 Tim. 3.1 And what hast thou to do to talk of Christ and his Disciples and Moses these had the immediate inspiration which thou denyes who hast gotten the outward form and words of Christ and the Disciples as the Pharisees had gotten the form of Moses and the Prophets and there thou art jâ—dged withall who hath the Eternal Spirit the life of them that gave forth the Scriptures Obj. Whereof thou art giving sences of the end of the world Reply Silence sence and consequence for that proceeds from the world in thy heart for there it is set for thou confesses thou dost not know the voyce of God who art lost in thy sences nor never shall in that nature who denyes immediate inâ—piration and so denyes the life of the Scripture and shuts thy self out For Christ is the same yesterday to day and for ever And his teachers are the same with the same Spirit and all thy whole intent is as to keep people from the voyce of Gâ—d and immediate inspiration and to keep the Letter and to make Ministers with it which is outward as thou calls it Obj. And whereas thou sayest Christ ascendâ—d on high and hath given gifts unto men Reply These words will condemn thee are these gifts outward thou art talking of an outward these words Pastors and Teachers are the Saints words and ours we own thâ—m but we deny thee and all thy filthy stuff of consequences and sences of the Saints conditions Obj. And whereas thou sayest Till the Saints come to the state of perfection Reply And again thou denyes it and saith None can attain to it in this world and here the Scripture will judge thee to be a lyar which thou sayest is thy
to record and with the light do judge thee and to see if thou be not in the imposture and an high imposture and in the witchcraft First Thou dost assert and thy company that the Spirit of Christ is distinct from the Saints and the Saints from the Spirit Here thou hast cleared thy self from the Saints who were in the Spirit and to be an imposture and this is in thy answer to the first Query Secondly Thou and you saith That you do not apprehend and speak right of God and Christ nor the Spirit nor of your selves nor of the Ministery of the Gospel Thou hast delared it who saith that the Spirit is distinct from the Saints and the Saints distinct from it and thou not apprehending aright of God and Christ nor the Saints and taking thy self to be a Pastor thou haft openly deceived thy self to be an imposture which art stopt and shall proceed no further and you not apprehending aright of your selves as thou saith you do not declare your selves to be blind guides and not fit to teach others that doth not know your selves but we know it is so that you do not know your selves and this is in thy answer to the fourth Query And thirdly you say That such a voice as comes immediately from God you have not heard of such an inspiration as this you have not received Thou that hast not received an immediate inspiration and hast not heard the voyce of the living God here thou hast raked thy self from all that did hear the voice of God and them that had received the immediate inspiration here you have turned your selves among the Impostures Witches and Sorcerers which have not heard a word from the Lord as thou thy self faith Let all the children of the light judge thee if thou be not an imposture and a deceiver but thou art made manifest to the children of light prayses be to our God the living God for ever And this is in answer to the seventh Query Fourthly Thou sayest there are no such Pastors now no such Officers now no such Teachers now no such Mininisters of the Spirit now nor no such gifts now as was then Here thou and all thy Teachers and Officers and Pastors are under the Prophecy as Peter speaks of and Paul speaks to Timothy heaps of Teachers and here thou thy self hast made them all Impostures and Inchanters and Sorcerers and Charmers if the Pastors be not now as was then and the Teachers now as was then and the Officers now as was then they are not in the truth for we do witness the same spirit now as was then and the Pastors and the Teachers the same now as was then made by the same Spirit But thou saith There is none such and we do believe it and know it that there is none such in thy generation so thou hast cleared thy self and all thy company out of the truth and here thou would'st make people believe that the truth is changeable and here thou shewest that thou hast not the Spirit that the Apostles had but the spirit of errour and guided by it and impostures and given over to fables and this is in thy answer to the eighteenth Query And for the Act of sprinkling Infants thou sayest Something may be held forth for it the Blood of Christ Here thâ—u makes the Blood of Christ a figure of sprinkling Infants and the sprinkling of Infants must then be the substance according to thy words and yet thou comâ—s after and speaks of Water Baptism Types of Christs Blood for there is no Scripture that speaks of sprinkling infants and here thou art rasced out and that which thou holds forth which thou wouldest bring to justifie sprinkling â—nfants For the Blood of Christ is the Substance this is in thy answer to the sixteenth Query And thou sayest Consequently God did not intend immediate teaching nor to give out in after-ages an immediate voice which should lead and guide men in the way of Salvation O thou vain man God will stop thy mouth and thou must be confounded who denies the everlasting Covenant of God who saith he will teach his people and make with them a new Covenant that all shall know God and heâ—e again before the Lord and all the children of God I charge thee to be an imposture and there all the children of the light may see thee who are taught of God immediately and directed and guided in the way of salvation Thou sayesâ— thou never heard the voice of God from Heaven nor received the immediate inspiration nor doth not wait for it Let all the children of the light see if thou be not an imposture who hath not heard a word from the Lord and one of them that â—â—ns before thou art sent which the true Prophet cried against And many Scriptures thou hast gathered out of the Letter which waâ— sent to thee in answer to thy Letter which thou calls mire and dirt which thou calls Annotations Thou high blasphemer who hath cleared thy self from the life which gave for h â—he Scriptures which life reacheth over thee and doth compreâ—end thee and judge thee eternally Let all the children of the lâ—ght who are led by the E ernal Spirit of Goâ— and dwell Seâ— if thou be not in a preâ—ence of Spirit who denies the immediate inspiration of the Spirit and hearing the voâ—ce of God Herâ— tâ—y speâ—ch bewrays thee and thy language is known with thâ— Etâ—â—nal Spirit of God where it is made manifest and what spâ—â—â—â— it is that dwells in thee and acts in thee and rules thee and tâ— be in the first birth so in the snare thou art taken and into the pit thou art turned who saith these persons alone pretend the Spirit That is false for we do not pretend we have it we witness it and thy pretences we do deny Aâ—d another thing thou brings to fill up thy Book and make it large the confession of one Johâ— Gilpin a Quaker Was John Gilpin come to the trembling of the Dâ—vils which power of God mâ—de â—â—m to confess his fâ—rmer conversation as in his paper he declares it and to see the deceipt of the Priests and to forsake his drunkenness and was he bewitched with such as thou art who now follow drunkenness and was drunk that there was a warrant granted out against him and this is one of thy converts and one of thy sacrifices that thou puts up to the supream Authority which the Authority strikes down all such things And another Sacrifice thou offers up against them whom the world calls Quakers a discovery of mystâ—cal Antichrist displaying Christ's Banners but attempting to lay waste Scripture Gospel Christ Fa th Hope and concerning an Examination of the doctrine and way of the Quakers in Yorkshire written by John Pomroy Paul Glissen Joseph Kellet We are acquainted with your generation and your reproaches to us are riches and your slanders for them you will be rewarded and your portion for
speaks from heaven whose voice shakes the earth so thou knows nothing of salvation but by heresay and here thou shewest thy self to be a false Prophet that takes the Saints words and say he saith when saith the Lord I never spoke to them and doth confess that the Jews said Moses heard his voice and among the Jews thou art who persecutes the truth Object And thou sayest Such an inspiration which is immediately received from God we have not received neither do we wait for it Rep. Here thou hast cleared thy self that thou hast not received the Spirit of God but art in the spirit of errour for the Scripture was given us by inspiration and by immediate inspiration of the same Spirit are understood again and from this thou hast cleared thy self and from the life of all the holy men of God and sayest thou dost neither look nor wait to receive such an immediate voice nor such an inspâ—ration and here thou shewest thy self to be a natural man and one of the dumb Prophets that hath not a word from the Lord but an imposture thou accusest them thou call Quakers withal and art a deceiver but those words they deny and Wonders and Miracles and Signs are amongst them but your adulteress generation could never believe Object And thou sayest the Querie strikes at all preachings but what immediately proceeds from the suggestion of the Spirit and this thou sayest is the venâ—m and poyson of the Query Rep. And here again thou clearest thy self to be no Minister of the Spirit but art in the suggestions of Satan and counts that venom and poyson the immediate preaching of the Spirit to thee it is poyson but it must dash thee to pieces and thou through many words would blind the people who utters them forth without knowledg and so a fool is known Object And thou sayest the word of old which was spoken by the Prophets and this is a more sure word then any immediate word Rep. There thou hast cleared thy self from the immediate Word who art built upon a rotten foundation which is not immediate and would clear the Prophets from this immediate word to make them like thy self who sayes and calls this a more sure word of Prophecy then any immediate word Here thou goest about to make the word and Prophecy not an immediate word and shews thy self to be a dreamer Object And thou sayest consequently God did not intend immediate teaching not to give out an immediate voice in after ages which should airect and guide men in the wayes of salvation Rep. And here again I charge thee in the presence of the Lord to be a lyar and a blasphemer who would limit God and would be his Counsellour and yet sayes thou never waits to hear his voice and not come so farâ— as to be a Minister of the letter who would have it kept in store and saith it is a precious treasure God saith he will power out his Spirit upon al flâ—sh in the latter dayes his sons and his daughters shall prophecy and thou deniest immediate teaching and so denies the spirit of the Lord which guides in the way of salvation which thou denies and thou hast denied that thou last heard any Voice from God neither dost thou wait for it And here thou denies thy self to be taught of God for all the children of the Lord are taught of the Lord and they that are taught of him hears his voice which thou denies and shews thy self to be a stranger from God and Christ Object And thou sayest there must not be a waiting for a new immediate word Rep. Here thou shewest thy self that thou knowest not the immediate word and this immediate word thou hast cleared thy self from which gave forth the letter and would keep others from waiting for the receiving of it and speak of a word spoken to you though not immediately and if not immediately it is carnal Object And thou bringest Paul who said Well spoke the Holy Ghost by Isaiah He did not say well spoke the Holy Ghost to me but to Isaiah Rep. Here thou would'st make people believe that the Apostle had not the Holy Ghost which opened to him all those words which Isaiah spoke for without the Holy Ghost he could not understand his words nor never shalt thou Object Thou sayest it was Gods word to Isaiah which he made use of against the people to whom he spake though not Gods word to him immediately Rep. And here thou shewest that thou neither knows Gods Word nor his immediate teaching who sits as a Judg upon Isaiah's condition Silence flesh for thou art for judgment and destruction and would make people believe that Isaiah was one of them that used his tongue Query 8. Whether a man shall overcome the body of sin while he is upon the earth yea or no Ansâ— And in thy answer thou said'st no. 〈◊〉 The Apostle said yea they were not in the flesh but 〈…〉 and he thanked God they were made free from sin 〈…〉 put off the body of sin and become servants of righteousness And here thou shewest thy self to have a lying Spirit 〈◊〉 to the Scripture which thou boastest to be thy rule and so thou brings the Saints weaknesses as they passed the warture to maintain thy own Kingdom of Sin and when John and the Apostle Paul speaks plainly of overcoming the world and Body of Sin thou speakest of a sense of overcoming as though they did not speak truth and so art giving an interpretation to their words who art in the lying Generation and for the warfare which the Apostles speaks of the Saints witnessed and do witness it and witnesses a Victory over the Body of Sin and are not alwayes in the warfare for whil'st ye are in the warfare there is no peace but they that overcome witnesses peace and joy in the Holy Ghost For he that is born of God doth not commit sin neither can he sin because his seed remains in him And here the warfare is ended who witness this and the Victory over the Body of Sin and are not siâ—ly women alwayes learning and never able to come to the knowledg of the truth but in that Generation thou art leading silly women captive alwayes learning and never able to come to the knowledg of the truth keeping them alwayes in their sins and pleading for thy own Kingdome which is the Kingdome of the Devil for he that commits sin is of the Devil which thou so plead'st for Query 9. Whether you do preach no other Doctrine but what the Apostles did that which was from the beginning which we have heard which we have seen with our eyes which wâ— have looked upon and our hands have handled of the Word oâ— Life for this Life is made manifest and we have seen it anâ— bear witness and shew it unto you Ans And in your answer to this Query you say That yoâ— aim at nothing but exalting Christ and you should have a
your lyes is the lake and it s well they have set their names to these lyes John Pomroy Paul Glissen Joseph Kellet that they may be known For with the chiâ—dren of light they are and their Spirit tried had they not uttered forth their names and their voice discerned and the Eternal Light of God sees them which shall be their eternal condemnation and the Judgement of God will fall upon hem for th ir lyes and slanders for them that they call Quakers â—usking we own else we should lay waste the Scriptures as you do For David quaked Moses quaked and Paul trembled and Habbakuk quivered and Jeremy shaked and these were in the faith and hope and these had the life of the Scriptures aâ—coâ—diâ—g to their measure Now let all people see if John Pomroy Paul Glissen and Joseph Kellet wh ch have diggâ—d a pâ—t for others see if they be not fallen into it themselves who are laying waste the Scriptures for the Gospel of Christ we own and the Scriptures are ours and the Doctrine of Christ we live in and Faith and Hope and not laying waste the Scripture but all such as make trades on the Scripture such we would have laid waste And thou Eaton and the rest who saith there are no such Officers now no such Teachers now no such Pastors now as was then Dost not thou here lay waste the Scripture and hast shewed thy self to be one of them and can imposture that what thou knows thou knows naturally which were ordained of old for condemnation as Jude speaks of for thou denies immediate inspiration and thou denies hearing the voice of God when Christ is the same to day yesterday and for ever and they that are of God hear his word and they that hear his word heâ—r his voice and here thou hast shewed thy self that thou art not of God and the Gospel is the same which is the pillar and ground of truth And another thing thou Eaton sets as a witness against them whom thou calls Quakers which word thou spake in thy letter to Richard Walter and thou said'st Satan had filled his heart with such fogs and mists and darkness and this is in thy page 56. and this is in thy own letter which thou wouldâ—st slander us with thy own words which came out of thy own bottle But O thou Enemy of good thy door is set open and what is in thy house is seen and whâ—â— is in thy bottle pours out and so for the truths sake because an evil report and slander should not rest upon â—t and for the simple ones and dâ—luded ones that are subject to catch at his histories and reports So for the trutâ—s sake have I given forth this not to be justified of man nor to bâ— known outwardâ—y but to be known to the Lord God and of him to be justified and not to stir up strife or war but that truth might be set up and all dâ—ceit confounded and the simple ones directed and their minds guided to God to hear his voice and to wait upon him that they might come into the life of the Scriptures that they were in that gave them forth which thou hast declared that thou hast not neither dost thou wait for it so shews thy self to be an imposture and keeps all in the pit and from hearing the voice of the living God And as for railing such we deny and all such as lay waste Scripture and live not the life of it and Christ and saith and hope but in their places we own all as it was given forth and here be thou Samuel Eaton and John Pomroy and Paul Glissen and Joseph Kellet to that in your consciences I speak that it may witness against you that you are witnesses against the truth of God and â—hem that live in it who hath published forth your lyes and slanders who are for the Lake And thou Samuel Eaton who makes a colour of answering the Queries thou hast made many Queries and hath answered thy own let the Reader of thy Book but take notice and see thy deceit and imposture which thou so often accuses them that thou calls Quakers with which therein thou art comprehended thy self with the children of light and I leave thee to be judged with them all because thou hast published thy Book openly let all the children of the light judge thee what spirit thou art guided by who denyes immediate inspiration And in thy Answer to the seventeenth Query thou slanders the Apostle and saith it was a hyperbâ—lycal Speech when the Apostle said they knew all things and needed no man to teach them but as the anoâ—nâ—ing and this thou sayest was an hyperbolycal expression O vain man where did the Apostle give â—orth any such expressions thou would'st make him a lyar like â—hy self who cannot own his words therefore do we own the Apostle who spoke plainly and deny thee with thy hyperbolycal expressions who art in the wisdom of words and slanders the Power of God which makes the earth to tremble in whâ—ch power stood the Saints faith and wisdom as the Apostle spoke to the Corinthians in which Spirit and Power of the living God stands our saith and wisdom and not in the wisdom of the world which wisdom we see all comes to nothing which wisdom thou lives in and so with the world thou mayest be justified for it loves its own and in it thou mayest have many witnesses but thou dost not know as thou hast confessed and with him no lyar nor slanderer nor with them who are Gods Thou sayest The Church of Christ is the pillar and ground of truth and doth witness the truth contained in the Scripture But this is anothers and not thine for thou canst not witness it to be the pillar and ground of truth but art an enemy to it and denyes the immediate inspiration and hearing the voyce of the living God And thou asserts that the Mystery of Godliness is great Thou mayest assert it for godliness is a mystery to thee thou knowest it not but he that spoke these words God manifested in the flesh justified in the spirit witnessed these words as he spoke them and to such as thee it is a mystery without any consequences or â—ences thou mayest very well assert it for thou art without God iâ— the world And as for El ction thou knows nothing of For his secrets are with them that fear him and thou denies ever hearing his voice therefore how should thâ—u know his Secrets and there let thy moâ—th be stept for thou knows not what is electâ—d whicâ— art pleading for sin and for the Dâ—vâ—l and denieâ— pâ—rfection and puâ—iâ—y so thou art without among the dogs and the Whoremongers and the Adulterers and there we leave thee And thou who sayest thou never heardst Gods voyce nor dost not wait for it nor never shalt in the state thou art in though thou sayest thou hast confuted the Quakers but it is with that nature which is
An Answer to a Book WHICH SAMVEL EATON Put up to the PARLIAMENT Which he saith he is a Teacher of the Church of Christ heretofore meeting at Duckenfield now at Stockport in Cheshire And he cals the Title of his Book QUAKERS CONFUTED Moses who was a Judg quaked and trembled David a King in Israel quaked and trembled and Solomon who was a King trembled and Daniel a servant of the most high God trembled and Jer. the Lords Prophet his bones shaked and Habak a Prophet of the Lord his lips quivered and his belly shoke and Paul a Minister made by the will of God trembled and Job the servant of the most high God who saw God trembled And these saw God and many other of our Witnesses vve might bring And these heard the voice of God and thou that writest thou mayest say thou hast confuted all them for he that is against them is against us and he that is against us is against them for the same power is witnessed bâ—t thou Eaton who saith thou art a Teacher of the Church at Duckenfield who saith thou hast not heard the voice of the living God and that such a voice as this as comes immediately from God you have not heard and such an inspiration as this you have not received nor do you wait for it And Isaiah saith Hear the Word of the Lord all ye that tremble at his Word and this is the man that I do regard saith the Lord that is of a contrite heart and trembleth at my Word but such Eaton and his Church doth not regard but custs out friends of the Lord from them whom the world calls QUAKERS London Printed for Giles Calvert at the black Spread-Eagle at the West end of Pauls 1654. To the Reader WEe hearing of a Paper which was sent to a Member of a Church as they call it at Duckenfield or that ways of which one Eaton is the Pastor and in that Paper we find many slanderous speeches and false accusations against us whom the world scornfully calls Quakers So the Paper being sent to us we seeing many lies and false reports we wrote some things to the paper to clear our selves from lies and slanders And that generation which ever doth lye and slander and sent it back to the Church as they call it and certain Queriâ—s to be answered For had the Church or the Pastor of it as they call it sent the Paper to us it had been honest but writing to others not sending to us we see the deceit that would slander the innocent privily but to us it is none because it doth not touch us And the said Church and Eaton which the Queries were sent to have writ forth a Book and sent to the Parliament and so not sent it to us Let all people take notice if here be not pride and hypocrisie Had they sent it to us it had been honest and in it we find much wresting of the Scripture multitudes of conceivings and consequences and contradicting Christs words and Gods words which were spoken forth by his Prophets as hereafter shall be made appear An Answer to a BOOK Entitled The QUAKERS CONFUTED A Reply to the Answers of some Queries in a Book entitled the Quakers confuted set forth by Samuel Eaton a Teacher of the Church of Christ as he saith heretofore meeting at Duckenfield now at Stopworth in Cheshire which was directed to the Parliament of this Nation sitting at Westminster To them I find much flattering and crouching but under whose tongue there is venome under a colour as contending for the faith which he knows nothing of and them that do will trample his dirty stuff under their feet and the said Eaton under a colour would make people believe he appears for God and Christ yet his intent is to persecute and incense and provoke people to wrath against those people he calls Quakers but the Lord is their defence and heard such in all Ages as in the dayes of Isaiah David and the rest who were of a contrite and humble spirit and tâ—embled at his word which the Lord would not despise but regard but the world would not but despise as Eaton and the world doth now Object O Eaton thou lyar Doth Paul and Christ compare them that trembled at the Word of the Lord as wolves and Satan transforming himself into an Angel of light and so into Ministers of Righteousness Reply O thou lyar Doth Satan transform himself into Ministers of Righteousness Here I charge thee in the Presence of the Lord to be a lyar and perverts the Apostles words they may transform them as the Ministers of Righteousness but not into Ministers of Righteousness and this is thy Quakers confuted Object And thou sayest that John makes them all Antichrists Reyly This shall stand for thy own condition who doth oppose Christ as thou declares in this Book and as touching Satans transforming himself into an Angel of light this is thy own condition and into the Ministers of righteousness as thou sayest here thou hast uttered forth thy lyes And on touching Christs call ng them wolves that is thy own condition who art making war against the Lambs of Christ and be silent and slander thou not the Church of Christ he need not have an outward power to maintain it that is dispersed abroad in this Land which doth torment thee for its the pillar and ground of truth Object Which sows much corrupt seed Reply This is thy own condition as thou hast shewed in this Book but that which thou calls corrupt is the Seed of God and God will judge thee for thy blasphemy who art in errour In this Book thou hast sown thy corrupt seed Object Doctrine of Seducers Reply This is thy own condition for such practises we do abhor and how fain wouldest thou raise a persecution and shew your selves zealous of his glory in these things and saith the Lord will bless you hence-forward And the Magistrate is for praise to good works and a terrouâ— to evil works then will it take hold upon thee thou envious man who art seeking after blood as all thy generation did Object Whereof thou art accusing Apostacy from the true God from the true faith and from the true word Reply This is thy own condition Object And thou sayest If there be sorcery and familiarity with the Devil to be found among a people who challenge propriety in God Reply This is thy own condition for them whom thou calls Quakers doth own the true faith and true Christ and true God and denys all such filthy things Object First thou accusest them and saith That it is held forth much of their doctrine and practises concerning revelations and immediate voyces and against the holy Scriptures Christs Ministers Church and Ordinances Reply And these are all lies for Revelations we own according to the Scriptures and immediate voyces Christs Ministers Church and Ordinances we own according to the Scriptures And O man lay thy hand upon
thy mouth and blush and be ashamed for thy lyes thou mayest be set up with the world which lyeth in wickedness but from God thou lyar art turned and must into the lake that burns And something in answer to the story or tale which thou tells to the Christian Reader and many reports respecting a people called Quakers concerning sorcery and witchcraft being among them Object And thou sayest Thou metst with a man a Teacher to a people about half a mile from Nottingam and thou asked him whether he did conceive that there was sorcery among them and he said Yea that there was sorcery among them Reply The chief Priests such as you did ever judge the Power of Christ to be of the Dev l for it did ever overturn your Kingdom O vain man here thou hast printed forth what he did concâ—ive and in your mind of conceiving lodgeth the spirit of sorcery and that which carries sorcery hearing and telling of new things as the Athens did who shews thy self ignorant of the holy men of God who were in trances tremblings and quakings Object And as thou speakest of a young man which came twice or thrice to their meetings Reply Was he come to the trembling of Devils and dost thou and he blaspheme that power which made him to tremble and this story thou gives to the Reader that all may see thy folly which story thâ—u receivedst from the Min ster as thou calls them Object And thou sayest thou thoughtest to have nothing to do with that generation of men Rep. Didst thou not utter forth thy lyes and slanders in a paper And dost not thou utter forth thy lyes now and so for the Truths sake are we moved to write against thy lyes which thou hast printed in this paper Ob. And whereas thou tel'st the Parliament and Reader of another story of a man and his Wife and art troubled because he titled the Ministers under the name of the Priests of the world and Teachers of the world Are you not such which say you have not heard a voice speak from Heaven neither do you look for it that such a voice as this that comes immediately from God you have not heard nor such an inspiration as this you do not wait for Rep. And here thou hast cleared thy self for being any Minister of God and from having the Spirit of Inspiration and here thou art a Teacher of the world which teacheth deceit which denies perfection Ob. And thou art tormented because the said Richard Waller affirmed that he had his Teacher within him Rep. And doth not the Scriptures witness the same Ye need not that any man teach you but as the anoynting which is within And doth not the Prophet exhort them to cease from man and wouldest thou teach them to follow man And doth not the Apostle bid them to take heed of the light within them unt l the day dawn and the Day-star arise in their hearts Here dost not thou clear thy self from the Spirit of the Prophets and Christ and the Apostles and cannot indure the Doctrine of Christ the Prophets and the Apostles which is the sound Doctrine Samuel Eaton And the answer to the paper which thou accused the Quakers of thou shalt find to be true though thou canst not own it with thy sottish and sensual mind Ob. And thou say'st the Saints and the world may know what a people we are Rep. Here thou put'st the Saints and the world both together the world knows us not but who are Saints witness us Ob. And thou sayest What little hope there is of any good to be wrought of any of them what a people these are Rep. Thy teachings we deny and thy discoursing upon the Scriptures with corrupt mind we deny but the Scriptures we own they are ours and so such busie minds who are giving senses and meanings to the Scriptures we deny for they are of no private interpretation Ob. And thou sayest they pretend to speak and act all by the Spirit and if any one will try their Spirit that they speak by their reply is That th y can neither witness Scripture nor Spirit Rep. But what Scripture canst thou witness who denies the immediate Voice from God and immediate Inspiration And thou sayest they encrease in number continually and this torments thee and now thou comest to prophecy Ob. The time will come they shall proceed no further but this is the false Prophet The time is come that thou shalt proceed no further for thy folly is made manifest already which is to the glory of God renting thy Kingdom and setting up his own Kingdom so that the power and effectual working of God which turns the mind of so many unto himself from the world by his Spirit and to the uniting their hearts together from the worlds Forms Sects and Opinions And thou who denies the immediate Inspiration and immediate Voice from God which thou hast put up to the Magistrate but God will dash all the earthly Bonds asunder with his immediate power and eternal Spirit who denies the immediate voice who lives in Errour and Heresie as thou hast made it manifest And this is in answer to the stories thou gav'st to the Parliament and to the Christian Reader Samuel Eaton now something in Replication to thy answers of the Queries Que. FRiend the first Query which was put to thee was Whether thou hadst the eternal Spirit which gave forth the Scriptures yea or no Object And in thy answer thou believes that the Spirit of Christ dwells in Saints yet thou asserts the Spirit of Christ to be distinct from the Saints and the Saints from the Spirit Rep. Here thou hast cleered thy self from the eternal Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures The Query was put to thee Whether thou hadst the eternal Spirit who saith The Spirit of Christ is distinct from the Saints Let all people see if thy Spirit be not distinct from the Saints and a lying Spirit to say the Spirit of Christ is distinct from the Saints when the Spirit that gave forth the Scriputre saith which was in the Saints they were led by the Spirit and they had received the Spirit and Christ said the Spirit of the Father spoke in them and the Apostle said If you have not the same Spirit as raised up Christ you are none of his Obj. And thou sayest The Spirit of Christ is distinct from the Saints Rep. And the Ministers of God said they were in the Spirit and here openly thou shew'st thy self to be rambling up and down with thy own Spirit and not guided by the Spirit of Jesus but by the Spirit of Errour and confusion and this is the Record God hath given us his Spirit but this was not spoken in thy Generation and ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit and thou say'st they are distinct from it Obj. And thou sayest the Spirit of Christ dwells in them which Spirit is God but thou dost not
answer is Davids Conditions and Experienâ—eâ— are many times your own Reply And before thou denyes as hearing Gods voyce and how caâ—st thou know Davids conditions who heard the voyce of God in the holy Temple and thou denyes hearing of Gods voyce but abundance of words thou hast heaped up together and wouldest make the Saints singing like thine who sung with the spirit and with understanding Obj. And again thou sayest God would have you in your meetings to rejoyce Reply Thou lyar How knowest thou the mind of God and never heardst his voyce who hist openly shewed thy self to be a Heathen who knows not God who knows nothing of the rejoycing and singing in spirit and what hast thou to do to talk of the Church of God which is the pillar and ground of truth who denyes the voyce of God and immediate inspiration which is both in the Church of God Obj. And as concerning putting on hats when you read and putting them off when you sing Then sayest you shall not much contest Reply Then you must confess it to be a tradition and that you worship the works of your own hands and yet thou goest about to justifie it who art mudled in thy confused generation who would have the hat put off when thou prayest with a part of the scripture and when thou readest part of the scripture to put thy hat on See if this be not thy own tradition Obj. And as for singing Davids Psalms in meeter thou sayest the Hebrews had their Poetry and it is sutable for every Nation to have their own Poet and particular Poetry to themselves to praise God and Meeter is congruous as thou sayest to our English Poetry Reply And this is all thy conjured stuff and likenesses who giveâ— every Nation liberty who art in the Nations and stands up for thy own who hast cleared thy self from the spirit which the Saints sung withall in understanding who comes to be redeemed from Nations which yet thou art in and languages in the customes of the Nations which who sing prayses to God are redeemed from and so thou maintains thy own customs and traditions but the Church of God slander not for they deny your Customs and your Ordinances which God never commanded and there is no difference between your postures and the worlds nor your singing and the worlds but there is a difference between your singing and the Saints which knew God and heard his voyce and sung with the spirit but thou hast denyed the immediate inspiration of the spirit and so thou caust not sing with that spirit the Saints sung withall Quer. 13. Whether you do know the voyce of Christ from the voyce of a stranger My sheep know my voyce saith Christ seeing you are so forward to judge and sit as Judges of the Saints conditions Ans And thy answer is That which Christ preached and the Prophets and Apostles which is left upon record which you have in the Scriptures that is that voyce of Christ and with it you are able to distinguish from the voyce of a stranger Reply Here you shew your selves that you have the form but not the power for many come to speak the Prophets words and use their tongues and say he saith when saith the Lord I never spoke to them and this is your condition who hath the letter as the Jews had which knew not the voyce of Christ nor with the letter can you know his voyce and there you are Obj. And thou sayest this immediate voyce you have not heard neither do you know it within your selves experimentally neither do you wait for it for you know it is not the voyce of Christ Reply Here you have cleared your selves from the voyce of Christ and to be strangers which never heard the voyce of Christ which is immediate for you deny hearing this immediate voyce within and so denyes Christ to be within and shew your selves to be reprobates And you shew your selves to be in the state of the Jews which knew not the voyce of Christ which was immediate but judged it to be of the Devil as you do Obj. And this immediate voyce you bless your selves from and say It is the voyce of the Devil and say you have never heard the Devils voyce nor seen his shape and yet you plead for sin as long as you are here Reply And is not sin the shape of the Devil and you that plead for sin that is the voyce of the Devil in you and not the voyce of Christ for the voyce of Christ testifies against all sin and here you shew that you never heard the voyce of Christ which is immediate but only hath the letter as the devil hath to bring and the form and calls that the Voice of Christ and here you shew your selves to be natural men not knowing any thing of the immediate Voice of Christ but judgeth it of the devil Query 14. Whether that within you which judgeth be eternal and infallible yea or no Ans And thy answer is That that Spirit which we profess to be the Spirit of Christ is that Spirit of delusion which doth all things in us Rep. O thou deceiver who knows not the letter doth not the Scriptures say they were led by the Spirit and the fruits of the Spirit and the Comforter which was to come should lead them into all truth and they denied themselves with the Spirit for doing any thing and here thou hast cleared thy self from the Spirit of Christ and art in thy own Spirit of Errour Object Thou sayest though the Spirit of Christ which iâ— eternal and infallible dwell in the Saints yet it must not judg of persons and things after an infallible manner that they should neither say nor do nor judg any thing by any understanding of their own but this Spirit this we do deny for the Apostle speaks of himself When he would do good evil is present Rep. Here I charge thee in the presence of the Lord to be pleading for the Devil and self and denies the Spirit of Christ and shews thy self to be in the state of the Wolves which Christ speaks of which should come in sheeps cloathing who hath shewed forth thy fruit to be of the corrupt tree who hath cleared thy self from the spiritual man which judgeth all things Object And thou speakest of Antichrists denying the Father and the Son and false Teachers bringing in damnable heresies denying the Lord that bought them Rep. These words shall stand for thy self which thou accusest others withal for thou hast denied as hearing any immediate Voice from God from heaven or any immediate inspiration of the Spirit and here thou hast denied both the Father and the Son for his voice is immediate and he that hath the Son hath the Father also and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life He that hath an ear to hear let him hear and in thy answer to this Query thou shewest thy self to be
rule for the Scripture saith As he is so are we in this present world Obj. And thou sayest but Ministerial gifts are not to be found in the world which the Ministers of the Gospel had Rep. Here to the view of all people thou hast brought thy self un-the curse for if it be not the same Mâ—nâ—stery and the same gifts it is another therefore silence flesh let the Apostles alone command and charge thee in the presence of the Lord who sayest the gifts are not now to be found in the world which the Ministers of the Goâ—pel had here thou hast cleared thy self and thy generation from them if it be not the same it is another which is contrary and here thou shewest thy self to be the wâ—â—ch that bewitches people Object Which saith there is now no such gifts as they had which were Ministers of the Spirit nor any such Pastors Officâ—rs and Teachers now as was then Rep. Here again I charge thee in the presence of the Lord to be a lyar who hath shut thy self in the state of the Pharisees hath cleared thy self from the Church of God Pastors Officers and Teachers for the Officers Pastors and Teachers are the same now which ever was we witness it and witness thee to be a lyar and all that are not the same Officers Pastors Teachers and Ministers of the Spirit are accused which thou and all thy Generation are guilty of who are not the same Officers Pastors Teachers and Ministers as was then and if not the same then they are contrary to Scriptures and here let the Scriptures condemn thee and them and here thou deny'st your selve to be any Pastors Teachers of the Church of Christ who saith there is none such now as was then and we witness the Church of Christ the Piller and ground of truth to be the same now as ever was and the same Officers Pastors Ministers and Teachers of the Spirit as ever was and yours thou sayest is not the same therefore they are all false contrary to the Scriptures contrary to the Gospel therefore the curse is upon thee who sayest they are not the same now as was then we witness Christ the same yesterday to day and for ever and what hast thou to do to talk of establishing truth which sayes Officers are not the same now as was then then the truth is not the same nor the Gospel there thou shewest thy self to be a gainsayer and what hast thou to do to talk of qualifications who would make truth changeable truth changes not Obj. And as thou sayest you reason there is no believers in these latter ages because thou sayest they shall cast out devils and speak with new tongues Reply In thy generation there is not but they which believe now speak with new tongues and cast out devils that makes thee to vent forth thy blasphemy against them that doth and here thou shewest thy self to be an unbeliever let the Scriptures judg thee Object And thou sayest The Apostle requires a waiting upon an outward teaching and exhorting Reply Here thou wouldest judg the Apostles teaching which is immediate to be like thy self which are carnal and without who denies â—here is any such Officers Pastors and Teachers now as was then Here thou prov'st thy self to be a Witch who draws people into another thing as thou declaâ—â—st in the 47. page of thy book in thy answer to the eighteenth Query Obj. And thou talk'st of waiting upon the office and living upon the Gospel a temporary and transitory Gospel and yet thou dâ—niest the same Officers and Teachers as was then Reply There thou art without in another temporary and transitory Gospel as thou call'st it Obj. And whereas thou sayest In these daies thâ—y shall heap up to themselves Teachers Rep. This is thy self O your selves who saith Teachers are not the same now as was then and here thou com'st under the Prophecy that Paul speaks to Timothy 1 Tim. 2.4 for thou confessâ—s they are not such as was then Object Whereas thou sayest Can any rational person conceive how preaching is like to be kept up Rep. The preaching of Christ is kept up without thy conceiving for it is not any rational person that keeps up preaching who lives in the conceivings And again thou clearest thy self from the Ministers of Christ who were made Ministers by the will of God and thou who deniest the same teachings to be now as was then art one amongst those Teachers that follows their own lusts phancies and fables and cannot indure sound Doctrine having itching ears turning to fables from the truth thou hast confessed there is no such Teachers now as was then therefore thou and thy company art another in your own wâ—lls out of the will of God distant from truth and to be them that Peter and the Apostle prophecied of which should come in the last time following your phancies senses and consequences which the eternal Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures ever judged and condemned such Object And whereas thou sayest Thou would'st have them first proved before approved and thou alledgest 1 Tim. 3.10 Rep. And thou deny'st that Office that was then that there is none such now and here thou art disapproved with the Scriptures for it disapproves thee 1 Tim. 3.10 and in the 47. page of thy book Object And in the third particular thou art justiâ—ying standing praying in the Sinagogues and thou bring'st Solomons examples who prayâ—â— in the behalf of Israel Reply Here thou shewest thy self plainly to be a false Prophet indeed who puts no difference between Solomons praying and the Pharisees who stood praying in the Synagogues Object And whereas thou accusest us that we are against praying Reply Here thou dost lye thy praying we deny who puts no difference between the Heathen and the Saints but the Saints pravers we own and Solomons praying we own Object And thou sayest Your places cannot hardly be called as the Jews Sinagogues was for it was not erected for any spiritual use Rep. No more is yours for thou deniest immediate inspiration and they that did witness immâ—diate inspiration was persecuted in the Jews Sinagogues the Saints which meet together in the eternal word denied all the Jews practises which met together in such a mans â—ouse Object Fourth particular and thou dost lye in saying we would have no meetings Rep. Because we do deny such Teachers as thou art and such practises as thou practiseth and such meetings who confesses that you are not the same Pastors and Teachers now as then so then your meetings are not the same but the Teachers as was then we own and the meetings as was then we own for truth changes not But here thou shewest that thou art changed from it who hath confessed that your Teachers is not the same Object Fâ—fth particular thou sayest we are cavelling at places and strikes at persons Reply Thou may'st as well say Christ cavelled at persons do not speak Christs words who art thou
snare whose mouth must be stopt and thou shalt proceed no further for the whole Countrey will His lies and slanders are these First That Benet should prison him for saying That that Christ that dyed at Jerusalem was a togue 2. That a woman a follower of him went up and down to get some to kiss her We Robert Withers of Kellet and James Taylior of Neuton both in the County of Lancaster being moved of the Lord for the truths sake to go to Derby and the Countrey thereabouts to search out the lyes and slanders and reproaches which Benet a Member of the House of Parliament and Justice of Peace in Derby cast upon the truth and the innocent by which all the innocent suffer we did not go because we did not know the truth and falsness of these things before for the truth that is made manifest amongst us doth testifie agaâ—nst all these things but that an evil report should not rest upon it that they who be in simplâ—city should not stumble and when we came into the Town of Derby and Countrey thereabouts we did with much diligence search and inquire of his life and conversation and doctrine and then they cried out in the Town of Derby and thereabouts against Benet's filthy lyes and scandals and said tha they must needs witness against him the contrary and that George Fox did always declare against that and all other such filthy practises and never such a word came out of his mouth as to say That that Christ that dyed at Jerusalem was a rogue and they in Derby and the Countrey thereabouts could tell the words which he imprisoned him for almost a whole year which was no breach of any Law so when he had put him in the House of Correction put him in the Dangeon and kept him in four prisons almost a whole year and then when he would not satisfie his will and that no Law could take hold on him then Benet struck him and commanded the under-Goaler to put him out of the Town half a mile or a mile and this many in Derby and the Countrey thereabouts wâ—ll witness so we being willing that the thing should be known openly as we declared it openly We have got the Copy of the Mitimus of the Master of the House of Correction whither he sent him a Copy of the Heads of the words which he spoke when they examined him and this we bear witness to in the presence of God James Telor Robert Widder The Heads of the words that George spoke when they examined him 1. THey asked why they came thither We said God momoved us so saith Peter And God doth not dwell in Temples made with mens hands as saith Stephen We said Look at Christ in you and not at men We said Christ is in us and hath sanctified us so saith the Apostle To the Saints ye were unclean but now are ye washed They asked us Had we no sin I said No and in Christ was no sin They said Where is Christ And we said In us and he hath taken away our sin so saith John We abiding in him sinneth not They asked us How we knew that Christ did abide in us And we said By his Spirit that he hath given us They said Was we Christ And we said We were nothâ—ng Christ was all And they said If a man steal is it no sin And we said All unrighteousness is sin and they stumbled at it and many other words were spoken but these are the Heads A Copy of the MITTIMUS To the Master of the House of of Correction in Derby Greeting WEe have sent you here the Bodies of George Fox late of Munsfield in the County of Nottingham Cordwinder and John Fretwel late of Stainsby in the County of Derby Husbandman brought before us this present day and charged with the avowed uttering and broâ—ching of divers blasphemous opinions contrary to a late Act of Parliament which upon their examination before us they have confessed these are therefore to require you forthwith upon sight hereof to receive them the said George Fox and John Fretwel into your custody and them therein safely to keep during the space of six months without bail or main-prise or until they shall find sufficient Sureties to be of good behaviour or be there delivered by Order from our selves hereof you are not to sail given under our hands and seals this thirtieth Day of October 1650. Jeremy Benet Nathaniel Barton FINIS