written also nowe wee can not take the Apostles wordes as vttered of all because much scripture is now wanting as he doth imagine Should these be your plaine arguments if you could obteine disputation Should this be the shorter waye I know not your name but know I pray you and teach your fellowes to knowe that the scripture hath bene in all ages sufficient for the time wherein it was written of all that which hath by seuerall encreases bene written nothing was at any time superfluous and whatsoeuer hath bene written and not come to our handes nothing for all that is now missing that is necessary vnto saluation He that hath not giuen vs the bookes of Nathan Gad Achia the Shilonite and Iehdo if they wrote any other then partes of the two bookes of Samuel after his death of the first booke of the Kings also he that hath not giuen vs the rest of Salomons Prouerbes to passe by your ouersight concerning the epistle to the Laodiceans already noted therefore gaue them not because he knewe them not necessarie or expedient for the posteritie Iohn proueth this in the conclusion of his Gospell and Christ teacheth that they which had Moses and the Prophets euen then had sufficient without miracles and traditions And you haue no sound opinion of the wisdome and mercie of God if you thinke his maiestie to leaue any age since he chose a peculiar people voide of scripture profitable and sufficient to the saluation of his Church Thus the reader may see that I neither wrest the former place agaynst my selfe neither can you doe it that would so faine In the fifth article the Iesuites are reported to say The want of holy scriptures must be supplied by peecing it out by traditions For the report of this doctrine the Censurer bestoweth more of his vndeserued tauntes If the Censure of Colen hath no such wordes Gotuisus failed in citing their booke but failed not in charging them with their owne doctrine which all Iesuites and Papistes so vpholde as Peters chaire both to mainteine their false doctrines and to vnderset their Antichristiā tyraunie But although you would for the time dissemble the matter traditiōs are not of so smal force as to peece out the want of scripture For except the Presidēt of y e Trent council haue a forge to coyne lies traditions are a liuing Gospel and hee vttereth it as a question that can not be denied This is most true saith Hosius that if traditions be reiected the very Gospell also seemeth to be reiected for what els are traditions then a certaine liuing Gospell In deede traditions make a quicke court at the Vaticane Thus by your doctors opinion it is most true y ◠traditions are made not a supplie to any wants in y ◠Gospel but an other liuing Gospel after a sort to giue life to that which in y ◠true Gospell seemeth to be dead And may not a man w tout a lie call this doctrine vlasphemous My vttering of y e Cōmandemēt in the singular number is without additiō or alteration of sense For Moses in the same Chapter speaking of the same lawe and to the same men doth change the plurall number into the singular The selfe same Lawe also is recited in the singular number in the twelfth chapter of Deuteronomie by Salomon in the thirtieth chapter of his Prouerbes and euermore that which is said to al is also said to euery one and truly taken as vttered to euery one Surely I cannot guesse what you unagined at this change of the Lawgiuers wordes without change of the sense being done by the example of the same Lawgiuer in another place and without any breach of his Lawe and wherupon your vttermost malice could inferre none absurditie in sense none iniurie to the scripture nor aduantage to my cause but a stinging guesse insinuating some cause mouing mee to this change which whether you cōcealed as forbearing me or ashamed on your own behalfe to bewraye the indifferent reader iudgeth Againe what made you adde so haynous a slaunder as if all thinges were lawfull for me and to charge me as blaming the Apostles and Euangelistes for adding the Gospel Take heede you allowe not your selfe such scope in these suggestions manifestly agaynst the trueth and your owne conscience for you knowe what that sentence implieth Blessed is he that condemneth not himselfe in that thing which hee alloweth The Lorde that addeth grace to grace and light to light he also hath added to the lawe the fulnesse and satisfaction thereof in Christ Iesus which is published in his most holy and most perfect Gospell To expounde Moses wordes forbidding to adde or take away from the Lawe as spoken of the things he deliuered by word of mouth and not of the lawe written 〈◊〉 is a doubtfull speaking and may beare a harder conclusion then I will charge you with His cōmandement respected the law eyther pronounced or written by him 〈◊〉 afterwarde to bee preached and written by the holy Prophets and Apostles in the spirite of God I dare appeale to your conscience though it be deliuered from your pen you do not thinke in your heart that I woulde haue no scriptures beleeued besides that which Moses set downe Wherfore your proofe needed not in this matter To conclude it is a great iniquirie to adde traditions or your unwritten ve 〈…〉 to the written worde of God whereunto no man may adde because nothing is wanting from which no man can take because nothing is superfluous but to him that addeth shal the curses written in the booke be added for euer In the sixth place the Iesuites wordes are thus reported The holy Scripture is a nose of waxe At the true report of this blasphemous doctrine you fall into a storme perswading that I haue therein sinned agaynst God and abused the Iesuices with other most bitter woordes as if I tooke the way to ouermatch both learning and trueth But howe wrongfully all these woordes are cast out against me your owne wordes beare witnesse for presently after the sentence of condemnation you repeale it and acquite me of the fault graunting that as a nose of waxe may bee formed what way and to what forme one list so naughtie men may wrest the Scriptures Notwithstanding because you presse the wordes against me let them be examined First to proue that the Iesuites haue them more plainely then you will acknowledge I appeale from your Censure to Andradius playne confession Hee as you knowe defended the Iesuites in these poyntes agaynst Kemnitius which you defende against mee and hath lent you no small furniture for this seruice This Andradius as hauing more learning and in his kinde more true dealing then you in handling this article doth not at all cry out as you doe but acknowledgeth and defendeth the matter without such needelesse scoffes And for the words he confesseth saying The fathers
A REPLIE to a Censure written against the two answers to a Iesuites seditious Pamphlet By William Charke 1. Reg. 20. 11. Let not him that gurdeth on his armour boast as he that putteth it off ⧠Imprinted at London by Christopher Barker Printer to the Queenes most excellent Maiestie ANNO. DOM. 1581. To the Christian Reader AS there haue risen vp in the Church from time to time false Prophets teachers which oppose them selues to the holye Prophets of God and true teachers of his worde so among the people where such contrarietie of doctrines hath bene deliuered like contrarietie of hearers hath alwayes followed not onely in iudgement but also in their affection For as some through the mercie of God and the sincere preaching of the Gospel haue yeelded obedience to his worde so many caried away with corrupt teachers haue for want of iudgement embraced errour in place of trueth and carnall worshippings in steade of the pure worship of God which euermore consisteth in spirit and trueth Against this so dangerous infection of false teachers the holy Apostle Saint Iohn hath giuen vs a most wholesome counterpoyson willing vs not to beleeue euery spirit but to trie and examin the spirits whether they be of God But to speake of our times this examination and trial may seeme very hard seeing the teachers on both sides are thought learned and al pretend to teach the trueth For it is not denyed but both sides haue had their education in schooles of learning they haue also laboured in the liberall artes to furnish them selues to greater matters wherupō they al bring very good words some shewe of reason seeme to haue no small force of perswasion Howe then shall the simple people iudge howe shal they discerne whose iudgement and discretion should be framed by their teachers and setled by their sownd and plaine doctrine To this I answere S. Iohn in that place maketh the matter more easy then it appeareth at the first shewe For exhorting vs not to beleeue euery spirit he doeth drawe our consideration to the spirit and doctrine of the teachers and not to these outwarde giftes of an eloquent stile or a sweete sownde of pleasing wordes which may be common to good and euil yea wherein the euil for want of a good cause labour to excell and from which the godly absteine for the sufficiencie of their cause without it are also restrayned lest our faith should stande in the wisedome of men and not in the power of God But Saint Iohn to make this his trial of spirits yet more ful plaine addeth that euery spirit which confesseth Christ Iesus to haue come in the fleshe is of God and euery spirit which confesseth otherwise is of Antichrist Now therefore let vs see bowe the Apostle frameth vs to a spirit of discretion to discerne the spirits of true and false teachers If any man shall teach and consesse that Christ was made man and ordeyned of God the Father a Prophet alone to teach a King alone to rule and a Priest alone to sanctifie vs and to reconcile vs to his Father by the obedience of faith this confession and doctrine is of the holy spirit of God and to be receiued what spirit soeuer shall mightily or cunningly perswade the contrary On the other side if any spirit shall teach that Christ is not our only teacher by his holy Gospel but that we must admit vnwritten beleefe and traditions from we know not whom to be of like authoritie with the written worde secondly if any spirit make not Christ alone our King and head to rule vs by his holy spirit but teache that a mortall and sinfull man must sit in our consciences and for hatred or gaine which is his practise bynde or loose at his pleasure lastly if any spirit impeach the alsufficiencie and entier vertue of Christs sacrifice offered vp once for euer teach that themselues must renforce it from day to day by the continuance of their dayly sacrifice of the Masse offered for the quick dead it appeareth manifestly that such spirits are not of God nor their doctrine to be receiued though it be deliuered with neuer so much perswasion of eloquent speach or offered to vs with neuer so much expectation of worldly honour For to denie the most absolute vertue and effects of Christes offices is in effect to denie the authoritie of his person and to lose the benefite of all his graces because they withdrawe a part To this examination of spirits without regard of persons the godly Reader is to be exhorted For the doctrine that giueth al glorie to God is of God the doctrine that attributeth some glory and ascribeth some merites to man is of men the religion also that is agreeable to flesh and blood making an acceptable sounde and shewe to the outward senses is carnall and vayne finally what religion so euer is not ioyned with the knowledge and exercises of the worde of God that is no true religion but a disguised and blinde maske full of deuilish superstition The aduersaries take a contrary course in making triall of their doctrine for they woulde haue this examination of spirits vtterly suppressed and vnder one title of that falsly named Catholique Church of Rome they would bind all men to receiue for vndoubted true religion what corruptions so euer they teach without any further question Which being graunted them the examination of spirits neede not for if Rome affirme it the matter is sufficient and must not be denied Also these enemies of the trueth leaue the touchstone which tryeth al metalles namely the doctrine and for it they drawe the teachers into examination supposing that if they can discredit or disgrace the men they shall easily vndermine and ouerthrowe their doctrine For triall of this long practise there are so many bookes that I neede not alleadge any but this late Censure written as in defence of popish religion but the authour shifting his hands very cunningly of the direct and plaine maintenance of the questions in controuersie doth but offer at them or giue some false fire his leauell and batterie is against their persons and credit that maynteining the trueth cannot but assaile the doctrines and put in hazarde the authoritie of the popish Church Therefore I am in the name of the trueth to craue it of the good Reader to lay aside respect of men the regard of those giftes that may please him much and deceiue him more and if it be his desire not so much to see the fight as to beholde the issue enioy the victory then let him imbrace that doctrine most that attributeth least to the broken arme or blinde iudgement of man that in the Church al the power and wisedome of our saluation may be ascribed to God alone through Christ Iesus our Lorde Amen W. Ch. A Replie to a Censure written against the two answers to a Iesuites seditious Pamphlet IT
you in this kingdome and in our neighbour kingdomes may behold it with vexatiō of spirit Therefore notwithstanding your bragges before you come to the triall and that you tell vs misusing the place in the forehead of your booke of the fier in the moūtame yet we feare no more to encountre with you then they that see their enemies without armoure or ouerthrowne before they come to giue them the charge Lastly you like not my opinion that only the Scriptures should bee admitted for iudges in disputation But the opinion is good and the practise needefull seeing the holy scripture is the onely touchstone to make triall and the onely iudge to giue sentence in all questions apperteyning to the doctrine of fayth and saluation Howe reuerently I thinke of the chiefe councils of the fathers and doctors and what profit I acknowledge to come by their great labour it was declared in my answere But you euermore omit that which maketh not for your purpose where in you take an euil but yet a readie waye to condemne a good cause Notwithstanding to determine controuersies in iudgement of religion I admit them no seate but refuse them al not onely with one breath but with this one short sentence The rule is not ouerruled You shoulde haue proued that the doctours and councils haue not places contrary one to another and sometimes contrary to themselues If you had cleered them of this warre among themselues you had made them somewhat fitter to make peace amongst vs. In affirming that I say some of the fathers are condemned of forgerie you doe manifestly peruert my playne wordes for I spake of the places and you drawe it to the persons It is one thing to say some places in Austen are forged and an other to say Austen him selfe is forged Now that places in Austen are forged and namely many of his short sermans to the brethren in the wildernes it appeareth by the iudgement of Erasinus and by the notes of bastardie set downe in your owne editions Cyprians places are also acknowledged by your selues especially that notorious booke of the reuelation of Iohn Baptistes head where Cyprian maketh mention of king Pipin that liued fiue hundred yeeres after that Cyprian was dead But I neede not to alleadge any more you wil not deny but there are many Now there followeth a comparison that you ground your beliefe onely vpon the word of God and make it the onely obiect of fayth more thē we do Your reports here and in the ninth place confirmed 〈◊〉 an othe can haue no credit against your knowen doctrine and dealinges to the contrary For doe you not in this verie question pleade the authoritie of men as the warrant whereby we receyue the Scriptures Doe you not denie that wee are saued by faith onely Howe then doe you buylde your beleefe onely vpon the word of God or make that the onely obiect of faith more then we doe In the wordes following you keepe on your course prouing that which is graunted and affirming that which shoulde bee proued I dyd graunt that Councils Fathers and stories yeeld profitable helpes to shewe the estate of the Church from time to time and also for the better vnderstanding of the worde of God yet this is that which you make y ◠questiō as denyed by me and to be proued by you After this strange order of disputation you myght as fitly in forme and more truely in matter proue your doctrine blasphemous and your practises full of rebellion If you woulde proue this it were a true proposition but no confutation of that I say affirming the same So in prouing that doctors bring great helpes to learning you proue a trueth but not in any ouerthrowe of my answere For I haue acknowledged as much The questiō in deede is whether Councils and Fathers be iudges to giue sentence in controuersies and rules to ouer rule interpretations to the proofe whereof you shoulde haue tyed your selfe but without any further proofe you affirme it as a cleare matter and altogether out of dout Is this that disputation which you so boast of to proue that is graunted and to leaue that without proofe which is in question I shall not escape the note of audacitie If vpon your Censures false report I shal be thought to denie that which I doe most manifestly anouch But this note of audacious bouldnes cleaueth to you who blush not to say that the authoritie of Scriptures dependeth vpon the testimonie and allowance of men and that otherwise we know not which is the word of God and which not As many as hold this opinion had neuer their eares bored nor their heartes opened by the Spirite of GOD to heare and see more then the bare letter they neuer felt the lyfe and spirite thereof which is the holy spirite of God not onely bearing witnesse with our spirite that we are the sounes of God but also that the holy scriptures are the worde of God and his power to saluation that they are also the rule which should rule all and not be ouerruled of any Neither haue those disciples of the word humbled them selues at the footestoole of the Lorde to behold his absolute perfection in all his wayes especially in the full reuelation of his will to the sonnes of men by his holy scriptures neither haue they considered y ◠vanitie of vanities y ◠infinite hardnesse of heart and corruption of iudgement which is in all flesh This humilitie would confirme them in the faith of that saying no man knoweth the things of God but the spirit of God This Spirit leadeth vs into all trueth to knowe it and to proue it and to be comforted thereby not in the iudgemēt or after the sense of man but according to the worke of God opening our hearts and sanctifiyng our vnderstanding so that the worke and iudgement is of the spirite according to the woorde of God Herein also standeth an answere to your seconde assertion that by the fathers wee knowe which is the right meaning of the word of God for as the authoritie of the worde is confirmed by the spirit so are the interpretations thereof also As man is not the author so he is not the interpreter of the worde of God otherwise then by the autoritie of the worde it selfe This saint Peter proueth making it a reason why no Scripture is of a priuate interpretation because it came not from man but the holy men of God spake as they were moued and caried with the holy Ghost so that the holy Ghost doeth deliuer and warrant and interprete vnto vs the holy woord of God expounding scripture by scriptures and not leauing this high office to men otherwise then to ministers conteyning themselues within the faithfull seruice of their charge in their written and authenticall commission And you dare not say who dare say much y ◠an interpretation is true because an ancient father hath it
is much to be lamented that in the things of this life there is not a cause so good nor a title so iust but when it is brought into question the quarelling partie will readily finde out some forme of pleading against it in the iudgement of y e ignorant or partial hearer seeme to haue a good cause great reason on his side when in deede he hath neither the one nor the other But it is much more to be lamented that in the thinges of a better life namely in the matters of our saluation there is nothing so plaine in the word of God nothing so agreeable with the vse of the primatiue Church but it hath enemies that crie out against the light as if it were darkenesse and against the trueth as if it were falshoode whereby the ignorant are interteyned in their ignorance and the obstinate hardened in their rebellion Yf the trueth be subiect to such iniuries and reproches they that mayntaine the trueth must partake with it also but alwayes with an affiance therein that it is mightie and will preuaile As many also as loue the trueth yet for want of knowlege do as it were stagger in so great contrariâ—rie of opinions they must not haue their faith in respect of persons or be caried about with euery blast of doctrine in the vncerteintie or hazard of men who are exercised in cunning waies and lye in waite to deceiue For this Religion is not true because such learned men teach it or that false because such wise men doe condemne it but whatsoeuer is truely taught and playnely proued by the holy worde of God if thou â—â—care it with feare and reuerence that wil confirme thy iudgement and establish thy heart in a good conscience of the trueth But in handling these controuersiâ—s because an earnest zeale of the trueth doth prouoiâ—â— the godly to a great hatred of error and a blind loue of superstition carie away others to the slaunder of wholesome doctrine let both sides remember that there is one that sâ—eth and iudgeth in these actions whose final sentence shal stand in that great day of the Lord Iesus against al that withhold the trueth in vnrighteousnesse This being well considered will ioyne christian loue with godly-zeale on the one side and somewhat stay the other that they breake not out into a defyaunce of the trueth and into the same open faultes wherewith they so much and so vniustly accuse others For many in great want of arguments recômpense the matter with vnchristian taunts and slaunders and not being able to ouerthrow the trueth are yet alwayes armed with varietie and colout of wordes to charge it as a lye and the defenders thereof as forgers of lyes and as maynteiners of daumable absurdities Notwithstanding as the trueth was not tied when Paul was in bandes so good causes are not confuted though the defenders thereof be neuer so scornefully reproched This may appeare as by many other treatises against our brethren heretofore so by the late Censure of Ed. Campion or some other for him that was more ready before hand to deale somewhat with the answers made to his proud and seditious libel For in a round stile this quareler would cary away the maintenance of an euil cause and vnder the title authoritie of a Censurer ratifie his manifold and vniust accusations that so finally he may sit downe to giue open sentence against the truth But for an answere to those accusations and a repeale of his false sentence I mind to follow him as from line to line where iust occasion is offered that vpon examynation it may appeare howe little force there is against the naked truth of Gods causes in the painted wordes of mans wisedome This Censurer taketh in hand the open defence of y e Iesuites seditious Pamphlet and as a man of authoritie and iudgement to censure my answere to it but as he hath nor perfourmed the one so hee hath greatly missed of the other For the argumeÌ„ts alleged to proue Campions seditious enterprise in euery part of his libel to open the like practises in his fellow Iesuites and other Papistes that imploy all their labours against the Church of God and the good estate of this kingdome they remaine all vnanswered the Censurer did not think it safe to giue his sentence in these matters although he knewe well they were the chiefe things that he should haue answered The matters handled by the waye as of the sect and doctrine of Iesuites of Ed. Campions person of disputation of Christian Frankens treatise against the Iesuites they are the matters that the Censurer hath chosen out to abide his bitter taunts and receiue his vniust sentence Thus this iudge that for the skill and authoritie hee taketh vpon him should haue censured the matter it self hath dealt only with certaine accessaries leauing the principal cause in ful force against the Iesuite But for proofe hereof to come now to the Censure Campion oâ— the like spirit in some other petie champion doth at his entraunce giue an aduertisment to abuse his reader that the Iesuites offer required not so much an answere in writing as shorter triall in disputation In which wordes he would seeme to make it a matter out of doubt that he his confederates can soone confute the religion established and by a short way defende their Popish superstition if they might come to the triall But these few wordes do bewray much vanitie For who is Campion or who are the rest of these seedmen that they should presume so much of themselues as to make so short worke in anowing that popish religioÌ„ that hath nothing to vphold it but tyrannie nothing to defend it but lies nothing to restore it but hypocrisie rebellion Where haue these disputers staied so long time Now they are come what can they get by renewing the battaile so often and so lately refused and auoided by their chiefe fathers auncient captaines Surely if your studied prepared bookes be a sure argument what you can doe in a present disputation then I doubt not if it were graunted but you would therein make a short triaâ—â— of your vaine ch 〈…〉 ge and leaue a sure testimonie of your 〈…〉 tichristian religion This your aduertisement is ioyned with a bolde and malicious accusation not so much against Mâ—st Hamner and mee as against the religion and as many as professe y e same For not hauing a watch before your lippes you affirme it as cleare that there can be had nothing from vs but wordes Mast Hamner hath with his words brought more reason and trueth against you then you wilbe wel able to answeare Whether I bring nothing but wordes or no I leaue it to them that 〈◊〉 measure my answere by their own indifferent iudgemeÌ„t not by y e preiudice of your vnlawfull Censure Whereas you would seeme briefly to gather y e effect of my bookâ— in steade thereof you
auncient Monks of the primitiue Church with the Monks and Fryers of the Popish orders betweene whom there is so great differeÌ„ce that the name excepted there is almost nothing wherein they should bee compared For the Monks in the primitiue Church whome Austen and others commend so highly were in life and conuersation holy painfull and learned they liued in their houses without any superstitious vowes as professed students of Diuinitie doe in their Colledges they laboured with their handes to releeue them selues and do good to others Finally their societies were nurceries of good learning and godly life that from thence the Churches might bee continually furnished with godly Ministers and Teachers These being once called to the ministerie of the Church ceased to bee Monkes and left their monasteries But the Monkes and Friers in these ages are as one of your fellowpapistes writeth of Cardinal Wolsey the dregges of the people and the reproche of mankinde And that you may not charge mee againe with these or any other like speaches deliuered against popish Monkes Friers I must foretell you that Austen doth cleere mee in writing as I haue done For speaking of them but when their wickednes first began to open it selfe hee doth crie out against them as against idle vagrant prowde and vncleane Monks accompanied since with your beggerly Friers such as nowe pester the Cloysters burden the earth infect the ayre and plant detestable superstitions in all places where they finde their kingdome of hypocrits Bernard a neerer witnesse of their wickednes doeth wonderfully thunder against them painting out their corruptions with fit words but with more reproche then I haue vsed or can with modestie repeate Wherefore howsoeuer it might haue bene a fault to speake against auncient Monkes it is no fault to speake against the bastard Monkes of this late age But it was your hatred without other cause to compare me with olde heretiques and your deceite as I noted notwithstanding so great difference to match the olde Monkes with your newe Friers The writings of the Fathers are not herein against me but their practise for me For as I prayse the good with them sâ— they disprayse the â—adde with me such as then beganne to declyne and are nowe degenerated altogether hauing made vp the measure of iniquitie that was wanting in their predecessours Saint Austen also the lowest that you will or can bryng to prooue any great good in Monkes in his 137 Epistle the title whereof is corruptly set downe for the purpose as he willeth vs not to infame all Mankes for a fewe that be euil so he willeth vs not to prayse al for a fewe that be good But here I must not let you pleade a false title for if al the wisdome and authoritie of your Censureship should ioyne in the matter it cannot make this our Austen a Fryer or so winne seuen or eyght hundred yeeres to aduaunce the antiquitie of your Fryers And this also I must remember you of that when you charge mee as making warre agaynst all the Saintes of God for speaking against wicked Monkes you doe therein much more accuse these Saintes and Fathers them selues who haue done the same before me hauing lesse occasion because the disease in their time was not so foule nor the infections so generall But presently in the same cause againe to say I haue a spirit â—arre differing from the Spirit of Christ is a false and presumptuous sentence pronounced boldly as from his seate that doeth search the reynes and know the heart For Christ called the Scribes and Pharises a generation of Vipers and oftentimes repeated these wordes agaynst them Woe be vnto you yee Scribes yee Pharises yee Hypocrites they were not worne out termes with him nor slaunderous as they are not also being vsed against their successours bee they Monkes or Friers or any other which haue that leauen Your selfe also bring the name of Fryer as able to disgrace euen good men saying in contempt Fryer Bale and Fryer Luther Lastly Christes example is alledged for Iesuites but most blasphemously and against his Maiestie For though Christ had not where to laye his head yet his example agreeth lesse with you in this matter then the example of Saint Iohn Baptist For Iohn came neyther eating nor drinking in such sort as men doe ordinarily but Christ came eating and drinking he frequented publike assemblies and was sometimes interteined at great feasts Howe do you then drawe the life of Christ to vpholde the wicked institution of Iesiâ—ites When did he whippe himselfe to warrant your practise in so doing What worldly blessings giuen him of his Father did he at any time abandon Howe doth his example recommende voluntarie pouertie to you Iesuites or tâ— any except you woulde by vertue of this example haue all men be of your order because all should be followers of Christ and holde it as commaunded or recommended for an example to be followed of all whatsoeuer hee hath done before Thus your readie words haue soone caried you into a manifest errour For by this your doctrine kings must 〈◊〉 don their regalities after the example of Charles the fift al Monarches must leaue their scepters and betaâ—e them selues to a Fâ—yers weede if they wil be followers of Christ and â—â—e that is recommended vnto 〈◊〉 by his example of voluntarie pouertie And for an example to touch you neerer the Pope he must aboue all other put off Peters cope and throw away his triple crowne and become a brother of this your beggerly order In the third place you note my endeuour to bring the Iesuites into â—â—nâ—empt by their obsâ—ure coÌ„ceâ—tion from one Layolas a Spanyard all which I graunt is true Neuertheles I may not let you passe away with a plaine vntruth Where doe I 〈◊〉 al my answere cal Layâ—las a Souldier yet you say I haue done it contumeliously For the time when Iesuites began it was hard for any man not of your nourcerie to set downe the very daye and yeere when your mother brought foorth those two â—wynnes the Theatines and Iesuites because their obscure conception and secrete educatâ—â— was such that for long time there was no difference knowen and the differeÌ„ces which you make out of Payua dependeth vpon his credit But for the matter Payua saith The Iesuits had their ful creation in the time of Paulus tertius Kemâ—â—sius saith they had it not before the time of Paulus quartus I pray you what authoritie hath Payua against me that Kemnisius hath not against you Notwithstanding let the matter be as it is you can gain nothing by it for Turrian a father Iesâ—ite saith that the Iesuites were confirmed by Paulus tertius and by other Popes afterward among whom was Paulus quartus which proueth my report sufficiently In handling this question you graunt that which I affirmed of the Iesuites that they were created by the Pope in Martin Luthers time To
auoyding of sinne are counsailed to marrie all that haue the gift for them it is more profitable many wayes to abstayne This Luther teacheth out of Christ and Paules doctrine not to ouerthrowe virginitie but to condemne your vngodly vowe of chastitie without due examination whether you haue the continent gift 8. The eyght report is lyke the former making it as necessarie for euery man to haue a wife as it is to eat drinke or sleepe It is as necessarie for him that hath not the gift to marry for auoiding of sinne as it is to eate and drinke for auoyding of famine that is not so dangerous as sinne When you drewe so deepe as these matters you were desirous rather to bryng nothing in deede then nothing in shewe 9. Your last report is that M. Luther should make all Christias as holy as iust as 〈◊〉 mother of God as y â— Apostles were These wordes are true in respect of Christ in whome all the faythfull haue holinesse and honour equally notwithstanding there may bee inequallitie in their giftes and in the measure of their glorie I will not stande vpon the comparisons of these distinctions seruing litle to edification He that is but a doore keeper in the house of God the new Ierusalem hath infinite glorie Yet because you make the virgin Marie and Apostles to beare more rule with Christ in heauen then they dyd while they lyued vpon earth Martin Luther teacheth vs there is no such respect of persons with God but in Christ Iesus whether in heauen or on earth there is neyther Iewe nor Grecian bond nor free neither male nor female but we are all one in him They haue all the same glorious inheritance as they had al like precious faith For the diuersity of measures I haue not bene a coÌ„panion of your bastarde Denis in his iourney to heauen to describe the degrees and dignities there or to determine that which Christ referred to the determination of his Father who shall sit at his right hande in his kingdome who at his left Thus I haue answered these places of M. Luther faithfully without any of your bitternesse in scoffing and vassting at a vantage of nothing as if you had thereby gayned the whole cause By my answere it may appeare these nyne places contayne no straunge newe doctrine as you haue reported without that regarde of trueth or modestie which is pretended But what is that you dare not write to bryng the mans diuine and cleare doctrine into contempt with as many as will be caried away with your smooth stile and bold accusations For as not contented with these vntrueths you woulde make y â— reader beleeue y â— you leaue other infinite beastly doctrines of his inuented by much coÌ„ference with the deuil as you auouch the matter out of Lindan But touching the broken and insufficient credit of this Lindan other your authors I haue noted somewhat before and such as your witnesses are such are their testimonies also the witnesses not lawfull and the testimonies not true For Lindan that hath here filled one page of your Censure as a false witnesse writeth that the deuill hath bene seene talke bodily with Martin Luther by men of very great credit The men are not named nor the matter probable therefore we may beholde a conspiracie to leaue the matter and disgrace the man one beginneth a slaunder and the rest come in one after another to iustifie the same vpon that foremans credit If we had no better testimonies this practise woulde bee as plentifull and strong for vs as for you but we haue not so learned Christ neither doe we stande in neede of euill euidences to auow a good cause But in this matter because you bryng in Luthers wordes against himself to proue some part of your reporte let vs see your misconstruing brought for a defence of your misreport It is well knowen M. Luther felt many tentations and endured great conflictes with the enemie which are very strange to the most of your religion Christ hath rendered the reason of your quiet and godly mens disquiet in this affliction of conscience when a strong armed man sayth he keepeth his Palace the things are in peace which he possesseth As long as SataÌ„ had Luther in possession kept in the chaynes of ignorance and superstition hee felt not the malice of his spirituall enemie Satan had no cause to disquiet a superstitious man whome hee had for the time in quiet holde but when the Lord opened his eyes to see and framed his heart to withstande the kingdome of Satan and Antichrist the the enemie assailed him greuously as himselfe complaineth in many places All which conflictes were not as you dreame in an outward or bodily conference with the deuill but in those inward battailes in those spirituall combates betweene the flesh and the spirite betweene the tentations of Satan and the desires of the Newe men such as the Apostle noteth in diuers places Though the Iesuites be not by experience acquainted with this greeuous whippe of God wherewith he scourgeth many of his deare children yet by reading they myght haue knowen what it meant For Christ endured such tentations 〈◊〉 Paul acknowledgeth 〈…〉 in y â— flesh giuen him and the angel of Satan to buffet him But to make all thin playne that Luther was not otherwise tempted then in the exercise of his conscience and with these inwarde conflictes of the flesh fyghting agaynst the Spirit and againe with the agonies of the spirit resisting the assaultes of the Deuill which as was noted other â—â—intes of God haue suffered and Christ himselfe it appeareth by his owne words in the farre places cited for your purpose I see â—yght well sayth Luther in Dauid and in the other Prophetes 〈…〉 greatly they dyd wraste and gro 〈…〉 in those battayles and the lyke agaynst Satan and his horrible assaultes Christ also him selfe thouth without sinne what teares what anguish and what agonies indured he for vs against Satan He doeth infinitely presse our heartes and ceaseth not but when hee is beaten backe with the worde of God Wherefore you doe not onely in this slaunder intollerablie reproche Martin Luther but you speake euill also of the wayes of GOD whereby hee worketh in the heartes of his children true mortification and strength in Iesus Christ to ouercome such sharpe and dangerous tentations The treatise of Luther de missa angulari so ofteÌ„ aledged by your felowes I coulde neuer see therefore it is as the allegation of his testimonie that is dead or can not bee founde to giue in euidence face to face when he is reuiued commeth forth to beare witnesse he shall bee ansered Touching Luthers death slaine as you think by y â— deuil going drunken to bedde ouernyght you shoulde neuer haue dis 〈…〉 ed your owne discretion in reporting so foule a lie from so
childishlie doe you cast in an exception of euill men and such like that they are agaynst the lawe of God confounding and huddling in deede The question is altogether of the corruption transgression and sinne which man câ—mitteth and you runne to beasts and to the sinne of deuils where in it is good to note that as you speake not to the question so your speach is not true For euill men as they are the creatures of GOD are not against the Lawe but the euill in men not the deuils but the corruption and euill in them not euill lawes as they commande but y t euil in lawes as it is either commanded or executed You must put a difference betweene the creatures and ordinances of God which are all good as they were created and ordeined and the same as they are nowe by themselues corrupted and made abominable To that you say these things are not properly sinnes for that they are no actions I answere If nothing be sin but that which is an action what Censure will you giue vpon Gods iudgement against Hely for not vsing discipline toward his sonnes What sentence will you pronounce for those watchmen that sound not the trumpet when they see the enemie comming Here is no euill action done but a good action left vndone y t is a sin and hath receiued the punishmeÌ„t of sinne It followeth in the Iesuites definition Sinne is an humane or reasonable action I would not say sinne is an humane or reasonable but a beastly or vnreasonable action of a man indued with reason Yet in the Censurers iudgement if a madde man or a foole kil a man it is properly no sinne but these effects of sinne these great inâ—irmities of folly and madnes shall excuse murder adulteriâ— and other like enormities Lastly you say in the definitioÌ„ of sinne it must be added that it is a voluntarie action done wittingly Al these additions are additions in deede and lay open notable corruptions in your doctrine For whatsoeuer is not of faith is sinne be it against thy will or w t thy will bee it an action or no action be it reasonable as you speake or against reason If this part of their definitioÌ„ were true theÌ„ original sin should he no sin because you cannot make it an action done willingly or wittingly Moreouer touching manslaughter done vnwillingly or vnwittingly and to one that is not hated it may be answered that hee that hath so killed a man must flee to the citie of refuge if he be found from the bounds and liberties thereof then the anenger of bloud may kill him Also he cannot depart from the Citie of refuge till the death of the high Priest whose death seemeth herein in some sort to prefigure the forgiuenes of his sinne in the death of Christ the great high Priest Lastly Howlets booke acknowledgeth a sin of ignorance against Christ the wisedome of the Father and hee maketh willing sinne and wittingly committed to come neere the sinne against the holy Ghost Thus betweene your doctrine and his it will fall out that some sinnes are no sinnes and againe that all sinnes are done wittingly and therefore are in some sort against the holy Ghost not easely remitted Which doctrine condemneth all veniall sinne and leaueth no place for indulgences and Pardons for al sinne is wittingly and willingly done sayth the Censure and all such sinnes are against the conscience and therfore damnable saith Howlets author This is the harmonie and consent of your doctrine to mitigate the sorowes of a weake conscience w t many discordes placed in an euil concord As for your example that Iacob sinned not in lying with Lea because he knewe it not it is to make no sinne of a double sinne for Iacob sinned in iudgement not knowing what he did and so sinned as vpon the like ignorance for want of regarde hee might easily haue committed the fowlest incest Also it cannot bee proued that the bed was altogether vndefiled To conclude therefore howsoeuer you alledge Austen to approue your definition it is no way so large as sinne and therefore a most vnlearned definition You prouide for some way to escape by these your last woordes And this is to bee vnderstoode of actual sinne properly betweene properly and vnproperly betweene actuall and not actuall you thinke to finde a defence because the wordes may be diuersly taken But if euery thing repugnant to the lawe of God bee sinne in deede though not actuall the question is graunted and nothing left to you but a warre of woordes against the trueth The contrary doctrine followeth The transgression of the lawe is sinne Howe tauntingly how scornefully doth y â— masker play his part Hee woulde make his reader beleeue I haue made a vowe not to deale plainly in any one thing and that I can not alleadge one litle senteÌ„ce without falsifying I prayse the Lorde it is farre from me to make any such vowe or to haue any such vngodly purpose 〈◊〉 〈…〉 approue my coÌ„science eueÌ„ to my enemies That you may haue a proofe heâ—â—of this very place out of S. Ioh. which you so wâ—der at shal be a witnes being in sense truly fitly aleaged to proue it sin whatsoeuer is against or beside y t law of God For as siâ— is the transgression of the law so again the transgression of the Lawe is sinne these two are conuerted as the â—â—finition and the thing defined and as the termes which are mutually verified one of another To giue you an example whereof we say The Gospeâ— is the power of God to saluation againe The power of God to saluation is the Gospel As for the 〈◊〉 let the same Aposties words be ma 〈…〉 〈◊〉 the fourth chapter where he sayth God is a Spirit yet the woordes lye thus in the Greeke text a Spirit is God wherefore let not a transposition seeme 〈◊〉 to you when you see it bringeth no 〈◊〉 but a true sense â—either accus◠〈…〉 when there is no fraude 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of trueth To make some shewâ— of your faâ—â—â— accusation you lay downe a falâ—â— example for a man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are not termes generally verified one of another being one the generall and conteyning more the other the speciall and hauing lesse If you had brought an example of the like it would haue followed wel without any shewe of fraude For as Euery reasonable creature is a man so againe Euery man is a reasonable creature They that are exercised but a litle in the knowledge of these propositions may easily see your erroâ—r or purposed deceit in the example and your false accusation in the matter But after a false example let vs see a false conclusion you conclude saying So these words as Saint Iohn 〈…〉 eth theÌ„ are most true Euery sinne is iniquitie or transgression of the lawe But as I vtter theâ— you say they are false to witte that euery iniquitie or
transgression of the law be it neuer so litle or done without either consent or knowledge or by a mad man or bruite beast should be properly a mortal sinne Here you playnely conclude that nâ—gaâ—â—uâ—ly which Saint Iohn him selfe layeth downe affirmatiuely saying afterwards in the 〈◊〉 Chapt. Euery iniquitie or transgression is sinne if sinne a mortall sinne as hath bene proued Thus the Câ—â—surer hath not added nor altered alone but playnely denyed that to conde 〈…〉 mee which Saint Iohn hath worde for worde to iustifie mee All my places that you so condemne being written and layde together haue I thanke God no cause to make mee blushe but this alone hath â—ause to moue you to the repentance reâ—antation of this speache so directly contrary to the wordes of the holy Ghost But the Lorde remooue all blindnesse from our eyes and haâ—dnesse from our heartes that wee may not struggle agaynst the trueth and so fall into these grosse denials of the manifest worde of God You that charge me in this place with transposition your selfe may be as worthily charged with alteration of the text putting one verbe for an other and two wordes for one both the Greeke and the vulgar translatioÌ„ hath Euery one that committeth sinne and you haue agaynst them both Euery one that sinneth This you woulde haue made a â—olde part in me but I am contented to gâ—aunt it is neither bouldnesse nor ignorance iâ— you 〈◊〉 though the first may stande better yet your translation is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 You 〈◊〉 perhappes to serue the Lorde in your 〈◊〉 and I knowe I serue the Lorde his cause is to be had in high estimation and the examination thereof must be without such disgracing quarrels otherwise he will punish euen him that shall not vse good meanes in the handling of a good cause But to conclude you graunt the question though as you say it commeth not to be so haynous a blasphemie For your vsual taunts of confounding and hudling you may worthily receiue them backe agayne with this vaâ—â—tage that you haue manifestly denyed that which the Apostle doth manifestly affirme and so stande vpon a contradiction not onely agaynst my wordes but against the holy and perfect word of God In the second poynt the Iesuiâ—es doctrine is thus reported Concupiscence remayning in the regenerate although it be against the lawe of God yet is it not sinne properly in it selfe or of his owne nature I am charged for mine authour that these wordes although it bee agaynst the lawe of God are not founde in the â—ensure oâ— Colen To what purpose 〈◊〉 the caâ—ill agaynst these wordes which if they had not beâ—e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 neuer 〈…〉 of necessitie 〈…〉 is of conâ—upiscense against the lawe and you so take it and so defend it Also by your owne graunt the Iesuites of Colen expresse those wordes in effect saying Albeit this concupiscense doe styrre or moue a man sometimes to doe things which are repugnant to the lawe of God yet if no consent of heart bee yeelded vnto it it reacheth not to the nature of a mortall sinne worthy of eternal damnation That concupiscense which doeth styrre or moue a man to doe thinges against the lawe of GOD is it not also it selfe agaynst the law As you thus graunt the words which before were denyed so vnderhande or at vnwares you graunt the matter wherwith you are charged For saying that concupiscense without consent reacheth not to the nature of a mortall sinne worthy of eternall damnation in some sorte you giue vs to vnderstande that it is neuerthelesse some kind of sinne which is to graunt the question or to loade and disguise the sentence with many waste woordes that you may in so doing hide the errour Moreouer you and the Iesuites confesse concupiscense to be sinne by Saint Paules manifest woordes who as you graunt sometimes calleth it sinne But as you wrangle with mee so you misconster the Apostle saying hee meaneth not that it is a sinne properly but by a figure Wherefore his large disputation is shortly to bee layde downe that thereby it may appeare howe corruptly you interprete his meaning The Apostle hauing declared that the Lawe doth thorow our corruption worke in vs the lustes passions of sinne to meete with a doubt that might bee made against the law as if it were sinne because through our rebellion it stirreth vs vp thereunto answereth saying The Lawe is holy and wee solde vnder sinne the Law spirituall and we carnall In which answere it is diligently to be considered by the waye that were it not holy and the commaundement holy and iust and good euen the Lawe should seeme to bee sinne for occasion of sinne that commeth thereby through our corruption But this occasion is not giuen by the Lawe but altogether taken by our corruption rebelling against the commandement So the Lawe being of it selfe holy altogether and giuen against sinne is not to be charged with our rebellion which is sinfull of it selfe and prouoked by such restraint If the Lawe which hath in it nosinne nor shadowe of sinne come notwithstanding to the question of sinne for the fruite of our corrupt 〈…〉 re prouoked and discouered thereby what shall wee saye of concupiscence that is it selfe vncleane and of it selfe maketh sinne exceedingly sinfull S. Paul following the question doth open the nature of concupiscence in his owne person comparing his estate before the knowledge of the tenth commandement with his state afterwarde Vpon which comparison hee declareth that hee knewe not sinne 〈◊〉 hee knewe the Lawe that saith Thou shalt not couet He knewe other sinnes before by the Lawe and light of nature but he knewe not concupiscence to be sinne So the very Gentiles in their Lawes condemned adulterie murder and other like sinnes but the iustice of God condemâ—ing concupiscence the Gentiles could not see the Philosophers could not finde it neither will the Papistes acknowledge it although they knowe with the Apostle the Lawe which saith Thou shalt not couer Therefore the Apostle hath set before vs by his owne example what wee may learne by that tenth commandement which sheweth most cleerely y t the Lord our God is a spirituall Lawgiuer binding our spirites our very thoughtes least desires to y â— obedience of his most holy most pure most perfect Law If any of these bee beside the Law it is against y â— holines wherein we were created which is required of vs by the Lawe and so plainely and properly a sinne howsoeuer the Iesuites distinguishe betweene sinne properly so called not properly called sinne Euery sinne is sinne these sinnes which by the Iesuites doctrine are so called figuratiuely except we finde mercie they will bring no figuratiue condemnation in y t day when y â— secretes of all heartes shall be layde open and wee called to giue an account of euery idle worde Your similitude of the Latine tongue taken out of Austen
to haue fully answered the chiefe matter of this article but you drawing me on with your tauntes I must answere to them also For the difference of an Image and an Idol you knowe my answere and I acknowledge not your difference Couching your honours done to the creature and creator I doe not maliciously confound them but you do vnlearnedly make a distinction in wordes when in deede there is none When wee teach y t al your worshippes are idolatrous we offer you no wrong neither do we therin blind our hearers or charge you with doctrines which are not your own For if any worship be greater then other that you giue to the crosse and image of Christ you can not denie this being your playne doctrine as I haue declared by Thomas by Saunders by Andradius so expressed as we can not more expresse it against you Therefore we doe not mainteine matter of rayling against the true Catholike Church which hath alwayes more detested all Idolaâ—â—â—e then your Church doeth or can defende it For your repeated words God forgiue you I must conster them in the best part but comming in the middest of other scosses they giue me occasion to note that many offend in the vttering of them against God whose name they take in vaine and against their neighbour whome they curse and tant with wordes that import a charitable prayer which is to be reformed in our speach least such sinnefull vse of good wordes increase the note of euill maners All these XIII articles are graunted yet your Censureshippe doeth couer the graunt most carefully as one that knowes well what shame it is playnely and openly to graunt so foule absurdities You might haue prouided better for your owne credit and agaynst mine if you had directly denied but one of them to proue at the least one slaunderous false report for this alone woulde haue preuailed more against mee then all your naked vauntes and vndeserued sentences of disgrace But no one being denyed what cause had you as fearing no examination of your booke and without all regarde of trueth to saye Thus I haue answered briefely your slaunderous false reportes of the Iefuites doctrine In place of an answerer you haue only shewed your self a cauiller passing by the matter you haue propâ—unded to your selfe newe propositions from the purpose such as you might more easily confute theÌ„ those wherewith you are charged Therefore it appeareth notwithstanding your Censure that I haue with seemely and fitte wordes charged the Iesuites that they teach blasphemies against God and his worde that they are the Popes procters in that seruice and bewraye the spirit of Antichrist Let the record of your false sentence charging mee with a lying spirit of Antichrist with an ignorant and rayling spirit remayne with the placing of your name for mine til you haue otherwise proued that my speaches against the vncleane doctrine and rebellious practises of your Iesuites are vntrue or rayling And because so cleare places in the worde of God with the interpretation of the name and nomber of 666. agreed of by auncient fathers and founde to accorde with the Latin and Hebrewe wordes doe make Antichrist to sit at Rome in the citie buylded vpon seuen hilles if they make it to be a Latin and Romish Church let y â— record stande agaynst the Pope y t he is Antichrist and against al other his instruments for that they haue the spirite of Antichrist full of all corruption Wheras you charge me that my zeale ouerranne my witte in reporting the former doctrines as blasphemous it is to speake without proofe and to slaunder without controlement For I must agayne saye that all your ignoraunt euill zeale and al your witte knoweth not howe to denye any one of these XIII articles except you will willingly wittingly runne into a curse of the Trent Councill Therefore your bitter taunt was without cause in respect hereof as also in respect of that y t followeth about a masse booke For in my conscience I am not priuiâ— y t I did at any tune crye out or at all vtter these wordes A blaâ—phemie findyng the blessed virgin named mother of God Wherefore vntil you bring better proofe of it my religious deniall shal more then weigh downe your hateful affirmation conuince you of breaking y t nienth coÌ„mandemeÌ„t by raysing â—â—ch infamous reproches in print agaynst your neighbour eyther vpon light report of an enemie oâ— vpon your owne imagination I am not in this sort ouergreedie of your discredit to whom in that generall loue I owe to all men I wish in the Lorde the riches and honour of true godlinesse praying that you may receiue the loue of the trueth and bee blessed as I woulde bee blessed But this your cause of teaching errour and labouring to roote out the gospell must more and more bee brought into discredit eyther to drawe you to a loue of y t trueth or to make you ashamed of such lies If I did in deede any way hurt my cause you loue it not so well as to admonish mee thereof but I trust y t Lord would prouide me more faythful remeÌ„brancers For your next wordes of reproche that wee seeme to haue made a compact betweene vs euery man to lye his part howe vntrue are they and howe full of reproch To lye is a fowle sinne but to lye with consent and conspiracie that the lye may haue the more force and greater credit it is double iniquitie and furder from vs by the grace of God then from any of you If the force of trueth ouerbeare you not without Gods extraordinary iudgemeÌ„t I looke not to see you ouerborne This thirtieth leafe of your booke will afford a scantlin of your brotherly loue if any man will take the measure Notwithstanding in the ende you please mee so well that I must thanke you for your helping hande in a good woorke And although you tell the tale so that I may seeme to haue a fellowshippe in the offence yet being free I subscribe to your good a 〈…〉 tisement against imprinting lying 〈◊〉 as that from Rome For it is so great a sinne to imprint lyes and râ—â—ore for â—â—â—thy lucrâ— and euery where â—o empty mens purses and â—â—ll their heades with â—ables that for such an inquitie euery such Printer 〈…〉 ueth to carye a print of his vngod 〈…〉 couetoâ—snesse 〈◊〉 dishonour offered to 〈◊〉 so excellent and so profitable 〈◊〉 Touching the purpose of him that to perswade the allâ—wance was like to aff 〈…〉 the 〈…〉 er 〈◊〉 he were a Papiâ—â— such as is 〈◊〉 like 〈◊〉 tell what is done at Rome hee had a 〈…〉 d to sinne hi 〈…〉 of purpose that he 〈…〉 ht laye it 〈…〉 If it were 〈◊〉 you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 woulde so 〈…〉 e y t Pope which cannot be gathered by any word in all the 〈◊〉 it was in him a greater sinne For without lying newes there is true matter â—â—ough
this your spirit attempt in the aboundance of your heart if you durst as well come to open action as you dare cast out these open and intollerable flaunders against all the godly entred We all holde the same doctrine of faith published and mainteined according to the worde of God we come to the same felloweship and communion in the exercises of religion and ioyne all in the same defence of Gods holie Gospell yea we all though not in the same measure seeke the reformatioÌ„ of that that at the Lordes time shalbe reformed to a further growth and beautie in the bodie of Iesus Christ which is the Church Therefore notwithstanding your slaunder vpon examination it wil appeare that those in Englande which are slaundered with the name of detestable Heretiques are farre from the heresie most readie to condemne it or whatsoeuer is contrarie to the publique doctrine of faith mainteined by the present Lawes of the lande which doctrine is pure and holy and agreeable to the most holy word of God which the Lorde continue for his names sake with peace vpon Israel But to returne to the Censurer hee addeth a manifest vntruth saying that all the former heresies ioyne against the Romish Church in receiuing the scripture onely To wade no further the familie of loue which you cite are against you who haue their seuerall Gospell of the kingdome they build vpon the cursed thrise cursed bookes of H.N. also they scorne the scripture learned and in their loue to you acknowledge y e ministerie of y â— word to come froÌ„ the Pope Therefore they do neyther cleaue only to y â— scriptures nor liue in such mislike of your superstitions Nowe for the matter if your argument be good Heretiques cleaue to the word onely therefore it is naught you may aswell conclude that we must not alleadge the Scriptures at all because they alleadge them we must not dispute at all because they dispute which conclusions are all absurd For heretiques eate and drinke they clothe them selues all which are lawfull for all men to doe therefore not whatsoeuer they doe but whatsoeuer they doe as heretiques that is a marke of heresie Furthermore to proue wantes in the worde of God you demaunde howe it commeth to passe that the Scripture doeth not ende controuersies among heretiques I answere they are in the faulte as you also like heretiques are by resisting the trueth the worde is not to bee charged with any want But let me moue the like question and haue your Censure touching the doubt You that haue the Scriptures the Councils the Fathers you that haue Philosophie moreouer and stories and which is most of all the Popes breast and the fulnesse of the spirite you bragge off howe commeth it to passe that you haue not yet compounded your trouble some and long controuersie whether the virgin Marie was conceyued without originall sinne or no If the euidences you so stande vpon cannot in so long time ende so small a matter what will they be able to proue in the great questions of saluation Agayne hedemauÌ„deth how such heresies can be yf y â— truth be so cleare For triall of the truth a manifest proofe what power there is in Gods worde there must be heresies and schismes and God hath alwayes suffered false prophets teachers for a iust punishment of those that loue not the trueth neuerthelesse the Scripture is cleare and plaine where God giueth an eare to heare and a heart to vnderstand if it be hidden it is hidden to them that are lost But you that once or twice beate at mee as one whose zeale ranne before his witte staye your selfe Doe you y â— make no conscience to diminish the authoritie of the worde of God crye out agaynst vs if wee refuse the determination of men will you that haue alreadie in diuers plates pleaded against y â— sufficiencie of Scriptures now pleade for Philosophie Doctours and Councils as able to end al controuersies ratifie your title If we call you onely to the worde not the bare woord but adorned and richly attired with all fulnes of light and trueth the cleerest interpreter of it selfe doe wee in calling you hither depriue you of your euidences and witnesses seeking thereby to set you together by the â—ares for the title I knowe no euidences but the worde no witnesses but the holy Prophets and Apostles if your kingdome can not iustifie it selfe by these euidences and witnesses let her bee condemned by them for euer Your beadroule of fathers naming heretiques y â— abused y â— Scriptures I tooke not the tale of them they are brought in as vnnecessary witnesses of a matter alreadie answered not in question Lastly you conclude that we drawe in one line with the most cursed heretiques and you make them our progenitors because we appeale to the worde of God as the onely teacher and iudge in causes of religion If this be a faulte let it be required at our hande if it be your horrible slaunder against the worde and agaynst the Saints of God for giuing due honour thereunto y â— Lord require it at your handes in the defence of his owne glorie Touching Christian Franken TOuching Christian Franken which is the last of your foure partes it appeareth he hath vsed a true reporte agaynst the Iesuites because as hee assured him selfe before hande yet no man hath denyed the idolatries the superstitious and heathenish exercises wherewith he doth so plainly charge them As for the first part of your answere hereunto it standeth altogether vpon false argumentes as that He departeth from the sect of Iesuites therfore he is an apostata He discouereth their wicked superstition therefore he reuileth al catholike religion Austen confesseth that hee knew none worse then they that fel in Monastical life while he liued therfore FrankeÌ„ must be one of them All these conclusions are barely affirmed without proofe therefore may be truely denied without any further answere Notwithstanding it is to bee noted that againe you find no fitter taunt against M. Luther and Iohn Bale then to call them Friers and therefore you repeate the matter True it is they were Friers but forgiue them that fault seeing they did cast away their habit and kept a better course An other reproch followeth in charging vs plainely with coyning the newes of Rome and with suspition to haue coyned Frankens Dialogue whereunto I answere if we haue not coyned you haue And as for AusteÌ„s place it maketh for him against whome it is alleadged and against them in whose defence you bring it For if in Austens time with some good this Monasticall life brought forth others so euill that none were worse and hath declined euer since it was time for Franken to come out from the middest of you If so long ago in such puritie of the Church as was in Austens time the Monasteries did bring forth y â— worst men of