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A56668 A further continuation and defence, or, A third part of the friendly debate by the same author.; Friendly debate between a conformist and a non-conformist Part 3. Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707. 1670 (1670) Wing P805; ESTC R2050 207,217 458

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his own like that which follows p. 8. You bring in the N. C. saying the King is a Tyrant But what will not he be bold to invent who dare tell you p. 10. that I knockt so hard not only upon the Act of Indemnity which I have show'd you is notoriously false but upon all overtures for peace and accommodation that he was not able to lye still when part of my business was to show the way to it and when it was fit for you to expect the favour you desire If we say not what pleases him it seems we had better hold our peace If he like not our propositions he will make no bones to say we offer nothing nay are against all peace and accomodation with them They must have their own way and be set at Liberty as he tells us before they will try to make us and you friends and then it is but upon condition neither if we will refer it to them and be bound to stand to their award g They are his own words p. 220. 221. Such another ugly lye is that which immediately comes after this that I reflect obliquely upon most eminent persons and insinuate that they never deserve to be loved or trusted more notwithstanding his Majesties confidence in them This he found in the same place where he met with all those Stratagems and Maximes he tells you of in the following pages as that I would put down Religious conference and bring men out of conceit with experiences and have spiritual preaching laught out of Countenance h P. 16 17. of the Preface and that I have used my wit to abuse earnestness in Prayer preaching of the love of Jesus Christ and using of Scripture language i Page 31. Ib. with a number of other such like things which are such gross lyes that they cannot be forced from my words by doing violence to them and putting them upon the Rack For I told you in plain termes what experiences the Apostle commands and when Religious conference is profitable to our selves and others and what it is to preach spiritually c. which I do not mean to repeat over again for his conviction In stead of that I will recommend to his consideration one Stratagem which he doth not think of though he is very expert in it and though it be a Stratagem of Satan who as Acontius might have inform'd him in a Book bearing that Title k S●●●ns Stra●ag●●es Book 2. p. 50.52 translated 1648. prompts men to cavil at one anothers words in their disputes whereby opposition is made not so much against what is affirmed as against what the opposer hath by a false Interpretation feigned to himself which kind of practice tends to nothing saith he but to provoke the Adversary and to make a mans self ridiculous by opening a Window to himself whereout to cast a thousand follies not a jot to the matter in hand Yet some men as he adds are exceedingly conceited of themselves if misinterpreting their Adversaries words they can infer some great absurdity there from Howbeit this custom ought to be left to vain Sophisters who as another excellent writer observes l Mouns Balzac can make use of true propositions to infer an erroneous conclusion and like petti-foggers still cite the Law to Authorise their injustice Such a Caviller is this Philagathus between whose Maximes Aphorisms c. and my propositions there is as wide a difference as we find oft-times between the Text and the Commentaries the meaning of the Author and the Criticismes of Grammarians So he will confess himself if he will but take the counsel of Acontius and forsaking the Devil with all his Works report what I say without addition diminution or alteration I can warrant only my own words which are sound and innocent as the other writer speaks in the like case not those of my Adversary which are full of malice and rancor For what I have written I am responsible and am ready to maintain it but all the Visions and fancies that come into other mens heads are not in my power nor am I accountable for them If Philag will say that I affirm one of W. B. Sermons is not so good as a Play m Preface p. 20. c. what remedy is there who can defend themselves from being abused by such squint-ey'd Readers I cannot make my words plainer than they are which were only these that the Sermon about the Cupboard of Plate and Gods departing from us c. hath more of fiction in it than many of the Playes n Friend●● Debate 190. What ever other words I should go about to place in the room of them he may as well deprave as he hath done these and many other throughout his whole Book making them depose such things as were never in my thoughts But now we have to do with the Preface in which there are so many falsities of this Nature that if I could find the like in my Book I should think as Dr. Corn. Burges saith in another case o Antidote against AntiSobrius p. 31.1660 that it deserved the reward of the Hangman and I would either burn it my self or hire him to d● it for me It would tire you to hear them all and therefore I will only add that notorious one which you find in the first of those Stratagems of Satan which he hath invented to cast that blame on us which justly lyes upon themselves It is this that we have brought all the practical Divines such as Scudder Culverwell Rogers c. quite out of Request that now adays there is no enquiring after those kind of Books p Presace p. 12. N. C. He only tells you that a grave Book-seller told him not long since that the Rational Divines as some would have them called had brought all our practical Divines c. C. Take heed you do not falsify too He hath made this lye his own in these words which follow q Ib. page 13. Sure I am the writings which you have taught the World to set at naught have been as great Seminaries and nurseries of Religion as most in the World N. C. Is it not too true C. There cannot well be a more impudent falshood For it was the canting of some among your selves which first struck those Books out of your peoples hands and destroyed those great Nu●series which he speaks of They made them believe there was a greater Gospel-Light now broken forth than had been since the Apostles times that they brought them more glorious Discoveries of the love of God and held forth free grace more clearly and fully and that there was both a freer streaming of Christ's Blood to poor sinners laid open and a more plentiful powring out of the Spirit in these latter dayes than our Fore-Fathers had seen In short that there was more of Law and of Mount Sinai in those old Preachers and now more of Gospel and
of your own party to the very skie to magnifie their gifts their zeal their sincerity their self-denial their tenderness of Conscience their pains taking together with their sufferings though never so small And on the other side to disparage ours or at the best to speak very coldly of them though never so pious and learned nay to shake your heads sometimes and lament their Ignorance in the mystery of Christ the meanness of their spiritual gifts the formality of their pravers their unedifying preaching and as it is to be feared their straining Conscience to comply with the times N. C. Pray let 's have no more of this C. Why may I not tell you a few other Devices that have been in use to win and keep your Proselytes As to brag of your numbers to spread stories and lyes by your Agents and correspondents from one end of the land to the other to fill every Country with the very same tales to possess the people against the writings of those of our way to give glorious titles to your own Books to cry up your sufferings as if they were for the cause of Christ to call all things you do not like I dolatry Antichristianisme Popery and such like odions and frightful names nay such hath been the tenderness of some of your hearts as to threaten your poor neighbours they shall have no work at least to deny to imploy them unless they will come to your meetings N. C. Now you calumniate to purpose C. It was a thing notorious in the late times as Mr. Edwards assures us and I have cause to think this evil humour is not spent but rather encreased But be that as it will you have a number of far more efficacious Arts then this As to vaunt of the power of your preaching of the glorious appearance of God among you and of the multitude of Converts to you to bespatter all that oppose you to perswade the people it was good livings that made so many turn Conformists and that they have lost their gifts and are much decreased in their graces at least you have thought good to terrifie them and bid them take heed for they have lost the prayers of thousands But if any adventure to write against you wo be to them Whatsoever they were before immediately they become the enemies of God and all goodness The people are told that they strike at the power of godliness through your sides and that they reproach Religion when they reprove your Superstition Every reprehension is called railing and hatred to the people of God and whatsoever fault they find it is done on purpose you say to bring all godliness into contempt In short to suppress you is to suppress the Spirit and but to speak against your affected language is to be desperately profane for who ever saw the beauty of Sion and the glory of the Lord filling the Tabernacle but in your Congregations Let any man go about to contradict this it is but pouring out half a dozen Scriptures against him nothing to the purpose and he is confuted nay one word will do the work and he shall be thought to write rarely and to come off like an Angel who can but say The Lord rebuke thee N. C. You had as good hold your peace for I beleive nothing that you say C. I can prove in every particular by true and faithful histories that this hath been the humour of your Sect. N. C. Save your self the labour I have no time nor list to hear you C. Nor to read good Books but only to babble as your Answerer doth out of your own head Did you never see a little Book called A wise and moderate Discourse concerning Church Affairs N. C. No. C. It was Printed in the beginning of our Warrs 1641. And I find it since put among my Lord Bacons Works there you may find several of these things noted First saith he * Speaking of the Oppugaers of the present Ecclesiastical Government they have appropriated to themselves the name of zealous and sincere and reformers as if all others were cold minglers of holy things profane men and friends to abuses Nay if a man be indued with great vertues and fruitful in good works yet if he coneurre not fully with them he is called in derogation a civil and moral man and compared to Socrates or some Heathen Philosopher Just contrary to St. John who would have called such a man Religious and told such as many of them that h● vainly boasts of loving God whom he hath not seen who loves not his neighbour whom he hath seen St. James also saith that this is true Religion to visit the Father less and the Widdow So as that which is but Philosophical and moral with them is in the phrase of the Apostle true Religion and Christianity And as in affections they challenge the said virtue of zeal and the rest so in knowledge they attribute 〈◊〉 themselves light and perfection The Church of England in King Edwards daies wa● but in the swadling cloaths or in the Cradle in Queen Elizabeths time but in it infancy and childhood The Bishops h● somewhat of the Day break but the M●turity and fulness of light is reserved fo● themselves And as they consure virtu●● men by the names of Civil and Moral 〈◊〉 those who are truly and godly wise a● discern the vanity of their Assertions they term Politicians and say their Wisedome is but carnal and savouring of mans Brain And in like manner if a preacher speak with care and meditation ordering his matter distinctly and inforcing it with strong proofs and warrants they censure it as a form of preaching not becomming the simplicity of the Gospel and refer it to the reprehension of St. Paul speaking of the enticing words of mans wisdome You may read there a great deal more to the same purpose if you have a mind to see your own picture But nothing methinks is more memorable then the blind rage and fury which the discovery of a most impious cheat excited in some of your predecessors hearts There was a young Preacher pretended to a power of Casting out Devils which he began to assume in the year 1586. and more openly professed 1597. This made a great noise of glory lights lamps and shining beams which now appeared in the work a Discovery of the fraudulent practices of John Darrel c. A● 1599. p. 19. It was given out to be a marvel●us work a mighty work of the Lord Jesas which all that loved him in sincerity must be careful to publish a matter of as great consequence and as profitable to all that sincerely professed the Gospel as ever any was since the restoring it amongst us b Ib. p. 16. And though first her Majesties Judges and then her commissioners in causes Ecclesiastical found by the free confession of the party said to be dispossessed that it was a meer cheat and a wicked combination to abuse the
Exposition of the Demonstration of the Spirit and of Power C. I have heard indeed that many of you think he hath foil'd me there nay given me a deadly wound that cannot be healed Alas Good men I pitty his Ignorance very much and their credulity If bold Bayard to use the words of a learned Prelate t Bishop White Answer to a nameless Pamphlet 1637. Pag. 18. were armed with David 's spirit and fortitude who could stand before him But if h● whole strength consist in wording and facing only What can it avail an Ape to concei●● himself to be as strong as a Lyon Though he make a shew and fall on as if be would tear all in pieces he will foo● discover his weakness when you come to grapple with him I will close with him therefore if you please and try the force of this confident Gentleman And I will pass by his mis-representing my words because it is a thing so usual with him that he must have a pardon for it of course N. C. He will never believe it unless you shew it at least now that you first charge it on him C. If you will have it so then observe that he tells you u Pag. 9. I doubt that Minister is not spiritually inlightned who expounds those words otherwise than of the wonderful gifts of the Holy Ghost Which is false for I speak there x P. 5. of Fr. Debate of some other words of the Apostle viz. the spirits searching the deep things of God which the natural man cannot discern But though it be a bad Omen to stumble on the very Threshold yet this is a trifle in compare with the rest that follows For first there is not one of those Authors he cites as far as I can discern except the first whom we will examin by and by who understands by Power any thing else than the gift of Miracles and that was the thing I am there speaking of though he as his manner is slips it over Powerful not Spiritual Preaching By Spirit indeed some Interpreters understand something else besides the rest of extraordinary gifts which I mentioned N. C. Why do you say some the stream of Interpreters runs contrary to you C. I know he saith so p. 10. and it is a remarkable instance of his ignorant boldness For where I pray you doth this stream begin If you go up toward the Spring-head if I may so speak and follow the stream all along from the Apostles time as high as we can find it the current will prove to be against him But his stream begins at Peter Martyr who is the most ancient Writer that he hath perused An excellent person indeed but we ought not to go to him as the Fountain of our Knowledge not think our selves learned when we can alledg his Authority For this will be to make our selves as ridiculous as T.W. who P●eaching about the Day of Judgment thus concludes his use of Perswas●on to Christians to believe this Truth Peter M●rtyr tells us That some of the Heathen Poets have written that there are certain Judges appointed Minos Radamanthus and others to examine and punish offenders after this life y Morning Exercise Methadised Serm. 25. p. 615. 1660. Whereby I perceive Peter Martyr is the top of these two mens learning both for the Ancient Truth and the ancient Fables And yet I believe T. W. is not well skilled in Peter Martyr but added his others of his own head for we never read but of one judge more whose name if you will know it was Aeocus And before I have done I shall make this man also as sick of Peter Martyr as he was when he vomited save in your presence in my very face N.C. But what say you to Dr. Featly who leads up the front of the battle C. I see his Name but where shall I find his words N. C. In the Assemblies Annotations on the Bible C. The Authors of those he tells us not without a brag were N.C. p. 55. Now I am sure the Doctor was none and therefore either here or there he hath overshot himself I am afraid he will fall in love hereafter with that Figure which is so odious to him and if you please we will allow him the benefit of it and let him make himself whole with one of his hard words call'd Synecdoche Let us here what Dr. Featly says N. C. He preached so that his Doctrine wrought powerfully in the hearts of his Hearers This he gives us for the Apostles meaning C. But second thoughts are usually better than the first and he immediately adds which this man suppresses or by the Demonstration of the Spirit and Power he means the evident Confirmation of his Doctrine by the gifts of the Holy Ghost and the signs and wonders which he wrought among them And this indeed is the ancient Exposition to which he was pleased to Preface with that of some of the modern Writers For Origen N.C. Will you take no notice of Docto Hammond whom he also quotes C. There is no need if as this man tells us his Exposition be the same with ●●igen's unless it be to shew how lamely ●e reports it For his Opinion is that by the Demonstration of the Spirit may be meant not only the proof of Christian Religion from the old Prophecies which I must tell you was by an infallible Spirit bestowing an extraordinary gift call'd Prophesying and mention'd by me in my short Paraphrase but also the descent of the Spirit on our Saviour at his Baptism accompanied with the voice from Heaven together with the Spirits descending afterward on the Apostles and by their Imposition of hands on others also This together with the power of doing Miracles he tells you may be lookt upon as the Demonstration of the Truth of the Gospel and be the thing that is here meant I can see therefore no difference between him and me As for Origen I shall go for his Opinion only to himself And I remember very well that he tells us over and over again there is a Demonstration belonging to the Christian Religion which is proper and peculiar to it self A Demonstration more Divine as he speaks z Lib. 1. contra Celsum than that of the Greeks by Logick and Syllogistical Discourse in other places he adds or by Rhetorick and it is this which the Apostle calls the Demonstration of the Spirit and of Power Of the Spirit by Prophecies which were sufficient a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. to work faith in him that met with them especially in those things which concern Christ and of Power by the prodigious and astonishing works which were certainly done as appears from this Argument among many others that there are some footsteps of them remaining among those who live according to the Will of the Word Where by Prophesie if you understand barely the ancient Scriptures it is plain they were not sufficient to work
faith in those that met with them who were first to be perswaded by other means to belive them to be Divine Revelations And therefore it is most reasonable to comprehend under that word the New Revelations or the Infallible Spirit of Prophesying in the Apostles interpreting the holy Prophets in any Language whatsoever which accompanied with Miracles and all the other gifts was a Demonstration beyond all other of the truth of their Doctrine If we look further into him we shall better understand him for in the third Book against Celsus b Pag. 152. Edit Cantabr he repeats the same again and more plainly than before The Preaching saith he at the first founding of Christian Religion was with a c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 power of perswading and bowing mens hearts but not such an one as was among those that professed the wisdom of Plato or any other men who had no more than Hum●ne Nature But d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the demonstration by the Apostles of Jesus being given from God was credible by the Spirit and Power by which means their word or rather Gods ran speedily and swiftly And again in the beginning of the Sixth Book e Alledging the same words It is not sufficient that the thing is true and worthy of credit which is spoken unless there be a certain power given from God to him that speaks c. which consisted not in meer words sure but in deeds the Spirit of God working in the hearers hearts by the means of those miraculous gifts You may find this place cited twice more in his Philocalia f Cap. 1. Cap. 4. where he expounds it to be a Caelestial or rather Supercaelestial power whereby their Preaching was demonstrated to be true All this makes it plain that he understood the word Demonstration in a proper sense for an evident proof of Christian Religion and that it was nothing else but the Supercaelestial gifts wherewith they were endowed And by this you may see I had some ground for my confidence having observed these things long before I wrote my Book But if you proceed further to S● Chrysostom he contracts the sense and determines the words wholly to Miracles Tell me saith he who is there that seeing the dead rise the Devils driven out would not receive the faith but because there are cheating Wonders as those of Juglers St. Paul removes this suspicion for he doth not simply say Power but first the Spirit then Power signifying that the things which were done were spiritual * Beza follows this Exposition making Spirit and Power one thing expressed by two words so Estius also among the Papists Oecumenius writes to the same purpose and Theodoret plainly makes them both one The Wonder-working of the Spirit g 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 witnessed to the Preaching and the Apostle most appositely joyned with the weakness of their suffering condition the Power of the Spirit And so St. Hierom He would not dispute with them least they should think he came to teach them some new Philosophy but he shewed them Wonderful Works and Miracles To whom you may add St. Ambrose Since foolish things saith he dressed up with words though weak in virtue appear as if they were wise God would not have his Preaching commended by the Testimony of words but of Power that the foolishness of the Word as it was judged might demonstrate it self by the deeds of wise Men being founded after a Spiritual Manaer N. C. It will tire us to follow the stream any further and I see already which way it runs C. I may save my self the labour if this bold Undertaker will believe Master Calvin whom he much commends but cares not to imitate who as became a knowing and an honest man expressly acknowledges that Most restrain these words to Miracles h Demonstrationem spiritus pot quam plerique ad miracula restringunt Why do you shrug N. C. I see what is like to become of my good Friend Philagathus C. Never trouble your self He can prove if need be that Most signifies few or none Musculus indeed tells us that this word Power in the Evangelical History is in a manner Alway used for Miracles and under these two words he comprehends all that the Spirit wrought in and by the Apostles and their Preaching Which methinks is excellently expressed by Arias Montanus He proved what he sa●● by the manifest power of the Holy Ghost given by Christ to those that believed and by the efficacy of healings and other Divine Signs Nay his great Friend Peter Martyr whom he makes us believe he consulted is pleased to say little less than Mr. Calvin that there are very Many who restrain these words to Miracles and Prodigies which Paul wrought i Permulti sunt qui haec ad miracula contrahant prodigia quae Paulus ed●bat c. What he thinks of their opinion you shall hear presently Let us first hear what Face hath to say to me The stream of Interpreters run an●ther way k Sober Answ p. 10. It is the sense wherein most Divines do construe it l Ib. You have the confidence to oppose the body of Interpreters m Pag. 11. and give us an uncouth and less acknowledged Interpretation n Pag. 122. an Interpretation that deserved not to be once mentioned in opposition to others o P. 197. and pag. 279. the General current of Interpreters Bravely said bold Bayard and like a blind B. that fears no colours Stand to●● stoutly and rub thy fore-head hard for w●thin that skull of thine is more contain'd than in all the world beside A whole Body of Interpreters is lodged there which Mr. Calvin himself never saw There is a depth of Learning that no body knows running in the wide Chanel of thy Brain N.C. You had better have said the wide Crack in his brain C. We have done with that merriment And you may rather suspect 〈◊〉 crack in his Conscience For how durst an honest man presume to abuse the world on this fashion Who but a man of a debauched Conscience would repeat a thing so often and with such assurance of which he had no competent knowledg How will you excuse his Hypocrisie who commends his own Moderation and modesty in this and another Book and yet takes upon him publ●ckly to contradict and controle another without any ground nay to disparage him all he could and charge him with vain confidence p Sir this vain confidence of yours doth justly provoke me c. p. 11. p. 279. bewail your peremptoriness c. and peremptoriness when he himself had no other support but wrote gross untruths out of his own imagination Methinks he should hide his head for shame and not appear in the open streets unless he be of the Sect of that Philosopher in Lucian * In his Sale of Philosophers who professed to teach men above all
things to be impudent and bold to bark at every thing without distinction to throw away all modesty and blot all blus●ing quite out of th● face For this is the Art said he to arrive at glory in a more compendious way than by Education Study and such like trifles If thou beest an Ideot a Mason ●r Bricklayer it is no hindrance why thou s●●u●dst not be admired if thou hast boldness enough and canst rail with a good grace N. C. He is none of those I 'le pass my word for him though he be a little too forward C. A little too forward very gently spoken and like his great moderation when he acknowledges any fault in his Friends If he be capable of amendment I will make him less forward for I have not yet done with him N. C. You will be too tedious C. I cannot help it I must make a thing as plain as A B C to him or he will never see it I pray desire him to consider where his eyes or his honesty were when he told us that Peter Martyr and Marlorate both do find fault with them who restrain the meaning of tha● place to Miracles and speak as if they did miss the main scope and intent of the Holy Ghost in that Text q Pag. 9. Let him wash his eyes and look once more if he ever lookt at all into Peter Martyr and blush N. C. Why should you Question his consulting P. Martyr C. Because he is so far from passing any censure on those who are of this opinion that after he had told us Very many restrain these things to Miracles he adds immediately which perhaps is not beside the truth r Permulti sunt qui haec ad miracula contrahant c. quod so tassis non est a vero alienum This makes me think that your forward Phil. made a shew of greater learning than he was guilty of and that he went not so high as Peter Martyr where the stream is against him and a very great one too but contented himself with Marlorate alone as if he were some Sea into which the stream of Interpreters emptied it self He indeed thus reports the sense of P. Martyr Many restrain these to Miracles but the former sense agrees better with the purpose of Paul s Permulti haec ad miracula restringunt sed prior sensus instituto Pauli melius quadrat But he ought not to have trusted this Abridger of Books who as he tells us nothing out of St. Ambrose and Oecumenius which are two of the Authors he gathers out off and are of a contrary mind to him so he wrongs Peter Martyr who doth not say there is another sense that better agrees c. but only adds after the words last cited But I more willingly take in that energy whereby the Spirit spoke through his holy breast t Sed ego lubentius complector 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quâ Spiritus c. c. What think you is this a man fit to write Books and inform you in the truth who takes things on trust and at the second hand How many things may you justly conceive doth he obtrude on you in the Pulpit for certain truths which are notorious falsities who thus in Print belies Authors and runs away before he knows their sense Nay openly tells you that the Most say a thing when one of the best Expositors in the world in the confession of all men u They are his own words of Mr. Calvin pag. 121. if you will believe himself affirms that the Most say quite contrary N.C. You must consider that he wants Books as he tells you in the Preface C. Then he ought not to have been so peremptory as if he had read all Authors and what he bids me do x Bewail your peremptoriness c. speaking of this place pag. 279. is become his own duty who ought to do a severt Penance for his Presumption his vai● Ostentation of Learning where he had none and his deceiving the poor people with mere wording and facing as was said before against a notorious truth N. C. I am sorry he did not repair to some Booksellers shop which I suppose are all furnisht with Calvin M●sculus and Peter Martyr C. How should he write such a Book in six weeks time and less if he had been at that pains He hath a better Shop for his purpose in his own Brains where he can furnish himself with 〈◊〉 sort of Ware without any trouble 〈◊〉 all There are Comments and Histori●● good store and a certain Worm of suc● an admirable property that it doth no● so much feed on them as feed them an●nourish them continually And the truth is I do not see what good those Authors you mention would have done him had he gone to consult them For either he is so giddy-headed or loves so much to pervert mens sense that he scarce ever conceives any thing aright but abuses others as well as me Marlorate himself cannot find fair dealing with him who speaks in milder terms than he as you have seen and being but a reporter of other mens sense ought not to have been alledged at all distinct from them But he had a mind to make a noise with as many learned Names and words as he could find having little else to credit himself withal For why I beseech you did he give us Erasmus his gloss on the place if you can believe him in Latine only when all the rest is English For my part I believe he could not construe his words nor understand the true meaning of them but put them in to vapour withal You may know if you please that they are not his gloss upon the place but only upon one word not at all to our business For they are not in his Paraphrase but in his Annotations where he is not expounding the words Spirit and Power but that which we render Demonstration which he would not have so translated but with the Vulgar Ostension or rather Ostentatien i.e. shewing and declaring y Paulus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈…〉 dec●●t●tur Spiritus Apostolicus so the Apostle calls it ●aith he For as much as the Apostolical Spirit is in the thing it self represented and ●e●tared What is this to his purpose I ●ake ●o doubt he himself could not tell but to make a vain shew of Learning down it went without any meaning N. C. Pray English it for us C. So I have and this is the meaning as far as I can judg that the Spirit of the Apostles was sufficiently shewn and made manifest by it self and there needed no other proof to declare it to be Divine Which makes so much to my purpose for how could it shew it self to mens satisfaction but by the Miraculous gifts that if he had understood it he would have thrown it away And let it stand aside if you will for another reason which he might have found in Beza an ordinary
Book who confutes this Exposition of the word z 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as not apposite to the place it properly signifying saith he a proof which renders a thing evident or demonstrates it from certain and necessary reasons Such were the Supernatural gifts of the Holy-ghost But the making men of our belief and perswading them to receive what we say is no certain and necessary proof that we speak nothing but the Truth No man can affirm that who considers any thing and therefore the Apostle speaks of such a sensible demonstration or proof as I mentioned without which they could not know certainly that there was a Divine Spirit in the Apostles So the word is plainly expounded Act. 2.22 Jesus of Nazareth a man approved * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 denu●●●●ated to you to be of among you by Miracles Wonders and Signs which God did by him c. From whence I gother that the thing whereby he approved himself to them or demonstrated he was of God was the very same whereby the Apostles demonstrated his Religion viz. Miracles Wonders and Signs all the gifts of the Holy Ghost N. C. But do not the Dutch Annotators expound it otherwise C. They seem to understand by Spirit the secret operation of the Spirit in mens hearts though by Power the same that I do In which they follow Erasmus in his Paraphrase and Theophylact hath something to the same effect though he presently betake himself to the Interpretation of St. Chrysostom before named But how an inclination to believe a thing or a perswasion wrought in me of it should be a Demonstration i. e. a proof that the thing is true which I am perswaded of or inclined unto is as I told you past my understanding And therefore having such good company I shall believe notwithstanding all his barking that they were the extraordinary visible effects of the Spirit either in our Saviour or his Apostles or others who believed which were the Demonstration by the means of which the Holy Ghost convinced the understandings and bowed the wills of unbelievers to become Christians N. C. I thought Grotius only had be●● on your side and Philagathus tells us he perceives if Grotius be for you as 〈◊〉 it were God himself you are ready to say who shall be against you a Pag. 10. As if y●● were bound to swear whatsoever Grotius b Ib. saith C. I remember his words and they are another notable Demonstration of the Hypocritical modesty that is the shameless boldness of this man who will venture to say any thing merely out of his own head which he thinks may disgrace me and indeavour without any proof to make the world believe that I pin my Faith on Grotius his sleeve and make him in stead of a God This he repeats I cannot tell how often as he shall hear anon with a witness and I will repeat it too only out of that great forge where the rest of his Book was wrought his own imagination For I protest sincerely it is more than I know if that be his Interpretation which I gave you nor did I in all my life to my best remembrance consult with him about it Though I must tell you if I had I should in Mr. Baxter's judgment have consulted one of the five most judicious Commentators that ever wrote on the Scriptures c Beza Grotius Pilcator Musculus Deodat Five of the most judicious Commentators I think that ever wrote on the sacred Scriptures Second Postscript af●er his Disput about Right to the Sacraments p. 539. But as judicious as he is in his opinion I would have you know that I would never have followed him without more reason than his bare affirmation The naked truth is that the very propriety of the words and the drift of the Apostles discourse carried me without any help to this Exposition Spirit every body knows who hath studied signifies commonly extraordinary gifts If he will not be at the pains to examine it I will quore him an Autority for it which he often vaunts of and that is Master Baxter who tells you that he who will observe carefully the language of the Holy Ghost shall find this word Spirit or Holy Ghost is most usually in the New Testament taken for the extraordinary gifts of that Age d Vnreasonableness of Infidelity p. 12. As for the word Power you heard what Musculus said But beside I have noted in my small Observation that when our Saviour was sent into the World he was anointed with the Holy Ghost and with Power Acts 10.38 and that he told his Apostles as the Father sent him so he would send them Joh. 20.21 From whence I concluded that they were to be anointed also with the Holy Ghost or the Spirit and with Power as he had been And so they were for as at his Baptism the Spirit of God descended on him like a Dove Mat. 3.16 so on the day of Pentecost which was the day of their Baptism Acts 1.5 they were all filled with the Holy Ghost prophesying and speaking with tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance and presently working a great Miracle upon the Creeple and with great power giving witness of his Resurrection e See Act. 2. v. 4.17.25 Act 3. v 2 c. Act. 4. v. 33. This I thought was the Demonstration of the Spirit and of Power whereby our Lord was approved and demonstrated in his life time to be the Son of God and by which afterward they proved his Resurrection from the dead and so the Truth of his Religion Spirit I take to comprehend the gift of Tongues Prophesie Interpretation of Tongues and all the rest except doing Miracles which in Scripture is called by the name of Power Thus I observe they are distinguished Gal. 3.5 He that ministreth the Spirit and worketh Miracles among you doth he it by the works of the Law c. where all gifts besides Miracles are called the Spirit And the Author to the Hebrews saith that God did bear witness to the Apostles Preaching both with Signs Wonders and divers Miracles and also with Gifts or Distributions of the Holy-Ghost according to his own will These and such like considerations were sufficient to perswade me to incline to that sense of the words which I gave you But when I attended to the scope of the Apostles discourse I had no doubt left in me nothing so well agreeing with it whatsoever this man prates as that Interpretation For the Spirit and Power is that which proved the Truth of the Apostles Preaching better than any Syllogisms or artificial Orations could do which he therefore calls a Demonstration in opposition to those ways of perswasion which deserved not that name Now what should that be which was the Reason and Cause of Belief Since it is certain the Spirit did not inwardly perswade men to believe without any reason Could some me●● belief of the Doctrine prove that
not enjoyned p Vindic. of Indep Churches You may as well bring a clean thing out of an unclean as make a Spiritual Extraction out of a secular root saith one q Reply of two of the Brethren to A. S. Christ hath committed the power of the Keyes to every particular member of the Church and will of every one demand an account saith another r Mr. Eatons Sermon at Knuttesford The power of the Representatives shall not extend to things Spiritual or Evangelical said the Agreement of the people Å¿ Pag. 24.20 Jan. 1649. All which was so well known not long ago that one told them in plain terms they made the civil Magistrate a Kind of Bat i. e. confined him to the twilight of Nature And that the Child may not adventure to take his lesson out of any Book but Natures Primmer t Apology for Mr. J. Goodwin 1653. p. 5. In short this is an opinion as old as the Second Admonition in Qu. Elizabeth's time where you find these words though there were never an ill word or sentence in all the Form of our Prayers yet to appoint that Form to be used though the words be good the use is naught What doth Phil. think now of his presumptuous undertaking in the behalf of the N. C. And what will he do for all those who are of this opinion whom he hath with full mouth proclaimed Rebels u A rebellious Principle it is c. your mouth waters to be calling N. C. Rebels Ib. N. C. Let them agree it among themselves for I am none of them and if you will let them take the rest which concerns that matter among them and do what they will with it C. I could make fine sport if I should enter further into that wild discourse For like a distracted man he runs from the point in hand and cryes out God forbid that any of them should say that things commanded by God ought not to be done if seconded by the command of the Magistrate N. C. If you love me do not follow that wild goose chase as we call it I know very well we were speaking of indifferent things and so lawful in themselves not of things necessary C. I have done and shall only note two or three more of his presumptions To lye a soak in the blood of Christ he presumes is an allusion to what is said of the Adamant Stone steeping in the blood of a Goat p. 46. which conceit as ill luck would have it is quite contrary to another presumption which he relyes much upon that these men speak to Trades-men to Farmers or Plough-men x See pag. 36. and p. 264. and therefore may be allowed rude expressions who know as much what belongs to Adamants as you know what belongs to Algebra N. C. Divines do ordinarily make use of this as he tells you C. Do they so Among the country hearers too the honest Farmers and Plough-men y They are his expressions p. 264. who are better pleased to hear of a mess or Boul of Pottage than with a resemblance from the Sun Moon and Stars And yet they have seen them oftner a great deal than the Adamant stone Surely they will not thus forsake their plain preaching and notwithstanding this mans presumption I do not believe that one Reader of a thousand thought of this Adamant Let 's see therefore if he can do any better in other things He makes bold to presume that because the Spirit suggested words to the Apostles therefore it doth so to us and because to them in preaching therefore to us in Prayer That is the force of his reasoning p. 96. The Apostle saith he acknowledges himself beholding to the Holy Ghost 1 Cor. 2.13 for words as well as affections and that in his ordinary preaching Now if the Spirit do suggest words in preaching why not in Prayer N. C. Now that you speak of Prayer it will keep you here a little longer Pray tell me why did you forget to mention that all this while Have you no care of your credit and reputation which is lost by what you have said of it unless you can redeem it Nay you have made your name to stink as he tells you in the Nostrils of many who before had better thoughts of you z Pag. 95. C. That 's the smallest matter of a thousand nor is it any prejudice to me if they hardly expect as it there follows to meet me in Heaven It is certain they shall not unless they get thither themselves and how to secure that is a thing should more imploy their thoughts than to be dreaming what will become of other men But as to the business you speak of I did not forget it but fully intended to have shown all the folly of his discourse about it as I have done in the rest Particularly in denying that to be a Rule to us which is infallibly dictated by the Holy Ghost a Pag. 92. And in making publique Prayer which was the thing we debated about to be for private use But now I am sensible it is too late and we shall part better friends if I let it alone for your prejudices I doubt are so great that they will either make you angry at my plainness or mis-understand that which you are not used to think of N. C. I hope otherwayes and would gladly stay so long if you can tell me your mind in short C. Part of it I can Praying by the Spirit signifies in the holy language as I take it the uttering such petitions as were immediately suggested both matter and words by the Holy Ghost according as the necessities of the Church required Such a gift I acknowledged there was in the Apostles dayes but finding no promise that it should continue to ours nor any such qualification required by Sr. Paul in a Christian Bishop I made bold to say that no man now can pray by the Spirit meaning as the Apostle did Nor dare this man say the contrary but pours out a great many words as they are wont to do when fewer would better become them concerning the Spirits bringing some things to our minds he cannot tell how much nor how little b Pag. 93. but for any thing he knows it may be nothing at all But if it do it makes nothing against me who told you in plain words if he could have raed or would not have cavilled that I spoke of a Prayer immediately dictated by the Holy-Ghost as some were in the Apostles dayes c See more in the Friendly Debiae p. 88. This he should have opposed and shown us that there is such a Divine gift which I deny And affirm that the gift of Prayer which is now so much talkt of is partly Natural and partly acquired by study observation and orderly digesting of things in our minds So that to the performance of what belongs to it in a compleat manner there is
Mount Sion in themselves This was one of those things which turned their eyes from Authors now named to look for some greater thing which these new Teachers had to reveal to them N. C. I must confess I have heard some of our own Divines complain of this But I doubt you have helpt to make the people reject those Authors as weak and frivolous and to listen to what new Rational Doctrine your selves are about to bring as he tells you p. 13. C. He talks idly and spitefully opposes his own imaginations to the plain and manifest truth They were laid aside and other Books come in their stead before those whom he strikes at begun either to preach or write And some of those very Ministers of yours who complained of the New lights and Discoveries have contributed to it not a little by affecting of new words and fine phrases and devising Sauces for that food which those old Divines delivered in a plainet and more simple manner These many people began even then to long for when Mr. Rogers his Book was writ as we may learn from one that prefaces to it Mr. Fr. Merbury there tells us that some professors in those dayes liked none but such conceited Cooks as this Philagdthus who commends so heartily T. VV. Sances and tells us an Anchove or two gives the gravy a fine relish and rather then fail can be content with Carriers Sance an Onion to get a man a better stomack to his meat r All these are his words p. 50. But he himself did not like them as he tells us in these words the rest of the professors which ●e like wanton children and begin to play with their meat and brook nothing but conceited writing and speaking are to be bewailed And therefore he desires the good Readers in the conclusion of that Epistle to receive Mr. Roger's provision made for them of wholesome meat not caring for conceited Cookery but rememtring that hunger is the best sauce for beavenly food This is a plain demonstration to me that this buisy Informer and Reproover hath not been conversant himself in those Writers which he so much commends but is one of those who hath laid them aside though he be no Rational Divine I dare say for him At least he is never the better for them being one of those that writes not elegantly but conceitedly if ever any man did and that labours hard in this phantastick trade of Cookery which those grave Writers did so solemnly condemn Witness the bread and butter I told you of before the hot broth of reproof which he talks of p. 123. The Beef and Bacon the Rabbets and Chickens which he fetches in to make a savory Mess of W. Bs. bowl of Pottage f pag. 264. and 265. and the conceited jest which he makes a shift to strain at last out of a Galimaufry of Latine and English compounded together for which he would be soundly firkt if he were I know where and at every lash be told in his own language that he had both jus in re and jus ad rem too far more then any boy in the School N. C. Did not you bring in your Cheese too in the Epistle to your Reader C. And I take it neither for an out-stretched Allegory u Like his discourse of this matter which takes up 3. pages l. p. 264. c. as he would have it nor an unhandsome resemblance Others I am sure who are no bad judges think it as far from conceited as they think him from being witty N. C. You must consider the matters about which he write are not very grave and so it may be pardonable if he be a little phantastical C. No I thought all this while he had been defending the use of these Sauces in T. W's Book of Repentance and such like that have taken the place of those better writers Which are the less acceptable to many of you for another reason that he thinks not of being I have cause to think but little acquainted with them N. C. What should that be C. They resolutely maintain the lawfulness and usefulness of a Form of prayer which now is so much despised if not abhorred and withal approve of the publique service of our Church and commend some other things which are now neglected N. C. Can you prove what you say C. I tell you nothing but what my eyes have read Mr. Rich. Rogers for instance whom p. 13. he sets in the first place in his seven Treatises x Commended by Mr. Culverwel one of the Authors Philag praises dedicated to King James in the beginning of his raign tells you * Treat 3. chap. 4. that the Publique Prayers solemnly offered to God in the congregation and praysing God with Psalmes is one of the publique helps to Godliness to be used by every Christian In the which saith he if that mind be in us with the which we have been taught to come to all holy exercises and so be prepared for them who doubts but that we may receive much help by them Yea ☜ and the better a man is the more he shall profit by them And when a man doth not profit it is partly of Ignorance partly from a prejudicate opinion and rash zeal which makes men give themselves to slight and negligent hearing of and attending to them And then having answered the objection of those who said the Ministers in some places were ignorant and unreformed Sots and idle drones in philag language p. 284. and resolved that notwithstanding we ought to joyn with them in prayers He proceeds to satisfy those that said a Minister should use no set form of Prayer but as he is moved by Gods spirit To such he saith It is a fond error so to think N. C. I know many would not like those words C. I told you so but hear his reason For as there be necessary things to be prayed for of all men and alway and those are the most things which we are to pray for So there may be prescript forms of prayer made conceming all such things Which being so what letteth that in the Reading of such prayers either of confession of sin request or thanksgiving what letteth I say that the hearers heart may not profitably go with the same both to humble to quicken and to comfort For is the reading it self unpure when the Minister in his own behalf and the peoples uttereth them to God I speak not you see of the matter of prayer but of reading it for if the matter be naught the pronouncing of it makes it not good any more then reading doth if it be good and pure being uttered and pronounced the reading cannot hurt it or make it evil And further to satisfy them they may know that in all Churches and the best Reformed there is a prescript form of prayer used and therefore they who are of a mind that it ought not to be must separate themselves from