sure these men have the imperfection of irrationality if they cannot understand this difference We accused John Whitehead for arguing against the Redemption of the body to be expected after death and for saying the Apostles had it before death W. and F. Here they fault us for not expecting the Redemption of the body and our discharge from sin till after death because we said also p. 10. that the nature of man in the Resurrection is discharged of sin which we spake of Christ made under sin and Law and death for us and in the Resurrection namely his resurrection discharged thereof sayes that any thing of our not being discharged of sin as to forgivenesse of it till the resurrection What grosse abuses be these But they plead for John Whiteheads corrupt sayings reproaching our W. and F. expecting the redemption of the body after death as contrary to the Saints expectations for they waited and groaned they say for the redemption of the body from under corruption when they were upon earth and the creature it self was to be brought into the Glorious Liberty of the Sons of God which state was witnessed by as many as were led by the Spirit of God who were sanctified throughout in body in Soul and in Spirit and put not redemption afar off till after death as they say we do Reply Oh monstrous blind corrupted stuffe one would think that all men that read these things should abhor to listen to these Preachers for first they bely the Saints in saying the expecting the redemption of the body after Death is contrary to the Saints expectation did not the Saints expect that after death their bodies should be raised incorruptible Did they look to have their bodies immortal incorruptible powerful and glorious before their death read 1 Cor. 15. and see if these men be not lyars in grain and wofully corrupt like Hymeneus and Phyletus that said the resurrection was past Phil. 3. 20. 21. 2 Tim. 2 17. 18. 2. They aequivocate in saying they waited and groaned for the redemption of the body from under corruption when they were upon earth in one sense it is true and in another false It is true while they were upon earth they exercised their patient waiting and expectation but false that they expected that the redemption of their body should be proved by them before death the redemption of it I say either from all the being of sin therein or to the being of sin in it till death we spake before and proved it from Ps 143. 2. for they say it s sown in corruption and raised in incorruption if it be sown in corruption when it dies then it is not redeemed from corruption before it die 3. That the Creature it self is to be brought into the liberty of the Sons of God is true but that that state was witnessed that is proved by as many as were led by the Spirit of God is false for the Apostle was led by the Spirit of God and so are the Sons of God but if they witnessed the Creatures being brought into the liberty of the Sons of God and the Redemption of their bodies from corruption how sayes he then that the earnest expectation of the creature waits for the manifestation of the Sons of God seeing what they waited for they did not see and prove and so could not witnesse it for if they see it why did they yet wait for it Rom. 8. 14. 19 20. 23 24 25. Why say they the creature it self shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption and not rather is delivered from it yea and why say they expresly we that have the first fruits of the spirit even we our selves groaning within our selves wait for the Adoption the Redemption of the body for we are saved by hope c. Were not the Apostles led by the Spirit that had the first fruits of it And Paul sayes The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the Law of Sin and Death Rom. 8. 2. And were not they sanctified throughout in Body Soul and Spirit at least in good measure And yet we see they did but wait for the Redemption of the Body they did not witnesse it as a thing which they had nor do we ever find them say they had it but they confound the Redemption of the body with the freeing it from sin in it as G. W. in his late dispute with J. H. declared himself alleadging Rom. 8. 2. his being set free from the Law of sin and death for proof that Paul witnessed the Redemption of the body when as Paul had that before he said he waited for this nor doth it prove any absolute freedom from the being of sin in his body Rom. 7. 26. shews So see all men how corrupt the Quakers be and how miserable out of the Apostles Doctrine and Faith And yet fourthly We say not that either we or the Apostles put Redemption far off till after death It is God that hath Ordered the Redemption there spoken of to be after Death that we might first bear the image of the Earthly in a vile Mortal body before we bear the Image of the Heavenly in a Glorious body it was their part and so is ours to groan after it and waite for it till the time of Christs descending from Heaven to change our vile body that it may be fashioned into the likenesse of his Glorious body was ever any mans body redeemed from Corruption and Death and Rottennesse before it died They may as well contradict the Apostle and say that which thou sowest is quickened before it die All men may see these be deniers of the Resurrection preached by the Apostles and therefore Teachers that are to be accounted accursed Gal. 1. 8. Note by the way Reader that these men never attempt to answer our Question propounded to them at both our former disputes whether that that shall rise a Spiritual body was ever dead surely they by their shunning it do declare that they do not believe it and therefore by consequence deny the Resurrection of the dead To our charge of them with Antichristianisme in intimately not confessing Christ come in the flesh while they make not the knowledge of him as so come the knowledge to Eternal Salvation but the knowledge of him after the Spirit as he was before the World was in Ed. Burroughs declaration of their faith which charge we managed against them and they could not make good their faith or prove it by Scriptures though they assayed it from 2 Cor. 5. 16. 1 John 1. 1 2 3. And therefore stood concluded Antichristians To this upon further thoughts they give now this answer That W. and F. To know Christ as he is the Power of God is to know him in the Spirit as he was before the World was and that we trust in the living God who is the Saviour of all men especially of them that believe but as he is
Ear rings and Ornaments they were faulted and Aaron too for their casting them off to make an Idol of and sure men and women had better wear such things soberly as these men Pharisaically condemn then make an Idol or false Christ or righteousness to themselves of their casting them off as they led them to do as the false Apostles led their Disciples to do with their observations of times and dayes c. VVhat they say of J. H. he leaves to the Lord to judge the truth of and as for condemning our selves in what we judge others we say we desire to judge our selves and them too in what we are guilty but not in what they foolishly fault us like the Pharisees superstitiously faulting Christs Disciples for things he faulted them not That the Deceivers and Subverters of Souls spake things that the peoples Consciences became in bondage to and many things that through the effect of the Law in their Consciences they could not deny but close with is falsly denyed by them For how else were they transformed into Ministers of Righteousness if they speak nothing suteable to the Letter of the Law of Righteousness so as that the Consciences of people bearing witness to the truth of some of their sayings might be brought to listen to them and receive also their delusions They say The Law in men is Light and it is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus that freeth men from the power of sin and death VVherein still they play the juglers for First neither doth the Apostles say the Law is in every man or in all the Gentiles but he sayes the effect or work of the Law Rom. 2. 14. Secondly The Apostle sayes The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus had made him free from the Law of sin and death not onely from the power of sin and death but from the law that convinces of sin and holds in bondage for it and sentences to death as Rom. 7. 4. Gal. 3. 13. and 4. 4. clearly shew even from under that Law that is in it self holy and just and good yet by reason of the flesh could not justifie or save Now these to hide their deceit seeing that had they cited the Apostles words they insinuate that something reproves of sin that is not Christ as we said they subtilly change his phrase and turn it into another thing How they set themselves masters in mens Consciences for all their feigned humility in denying that title we have before shewed often in this Treatise and therefore here shall wave it W. and F. They say They suffer much for righteousnesse sake and for bearing Testimony against unrighteousnes and we oft cause it c. Who do they here commend themselves and the Jesuites for we said to get themselves a party as the Jesuites do they expose themselves to some sufferings c. and they deny not for they know its true that the Jesuites do so too and think we they do not say its for Righteousnesse sake and for witnessing against unrighteousness and that they may thank the Teachers often for it T is likely the Quakers and they are either the same or of very great affinity yet both their ends shall be according to their works as well as other false Apostles and false Prophets who have exposed themselves too to great sufferings partly of voluntary devotion and will-worship and partly from people against their wills for their falshood as Baals Priests and Prophets did 1 Kings 18. 28. 40. 2 Kings 10. 25. Collossians 2. 20. 21. 22. W. and F. That we have not God nor abide in the Doctrine of Christ they endeavour to prove against us because we say we of this Nation joyning our selves with them as not without guilt have neglected Christ and long abused the Truth But we deny their inference for every neglect of Christ and abuse of his truth deprives not of God nor is accompanied with such transgression as not to abide in his Doctrine for who then should stand as Psal 130. 3. the Apostles had fellowship with God and Christ when yet they had sins to confess and so neglects of Christ and abuses of truth to be cleansed from for in every sin is some neglect of Christ sure and abuse of Truth in some degree or other and such things David Daniel Isaiah and others confessed in effect and yet in so doing that is confessing their sins kept in with God receiving daily forgiveness of them and cleansing from them and though they had some failings in the way yet they abide in it and transgrest not so as to leave the way It is the Deceivers and deceived Generation who leave the Doctrine of Christ for some corrupt mysterie and false imagination that are guilty of such transgressions and abide not in the truth nor have either Father or Son whatever their false boastings be or selfe justifications they are fallen from Christ and be accursed And G. W. knows that the Quakers were proved to be such in our late dispute with him to that purpose The Pharisee that pleaded no sinner was out of the Doctrine of Christ when the Publican that durst not look up because of his sins was nearer in it they that say they have no sin deceive themselves the truth is not in them and so they have not God and Christ when they that confesse their neglects of Christ and abuses of his truth shall find him faithful to forgive their sins and to cleanse them from all unrighteousnesse they are in Gods Doctrine and way to life when the others are far wide of it for he that humbleth himself shall be exalted he that acknowledgeth his sin shall find Mercy when he that hides and dissembles it and lifts up himself as if innocent is out of God and Christ and shall be abased and confounded The rest being frothy and disdainful reproaches we leave them to the judgement of the Lord and shall look to him to plead our cause against them which also blessed be his holy Name he hath in some measure done since the first draught hereof in our latter conflict with G. W. to his no small confusion and to keep people from their strong delusions and specious but most pernicious deceits having we trust so laid open their nakednesse that all that will may see their folly manifest and avoid them and all their Serpent-like windings and insinuations Nor fear we to proceed against them in Print for ought that they threaten us with or can do against us for the more they Print the more shall their folly be made manifest as the Spirit of God hath before signified 2 Tim. 3. 6 7 8 9. In the strength of God therefore and of our Lord Jesus Christ we shall stand against them and all their assaults that their printing can make against us blessing him that he hath counted us worthy who in our selves are most unworthy to be made his instruments to draw out
it to consider him and stay on his Name as therein set forth seeking Satisfaction Rest Righteousnesse and Strength in him in such believing mindfulnesse and dependance on him and so believing on him as the Scripture hath said he is therein said to Eat him and Drink him or the Bread and Drink he giveth because therein the heart and mind is so stayed in him Isa 26. 5 and exercised with delight and well-pleasednesse about him and the things of him as to a tasting how Gracious the Lord is and proving the sweetness fitness and excellency of him in and according to the knowledge of him so Jeremy saith Thy words were found and I did eat them Jer. 15. 16. and because also in such spiritual eating a man certainly comes to taste prove and meet with such peace refreshing joy strength and blessedness in the first fruits of the Spirit as answers to the instruction and ground therein set before him as also follows in that of Jeremy thy word was to me the joy and the rejoycing of mine heart as David also professeth How sweet are thy words unto my taste yea sweeter than Honey to my mouth Psal 119. 103 for the Word of God works effectually in them that believe and receive it as such 1 Thes 2. 13. unto them therefore that believe Christ is precious for so Christ comes to dwell in their heart in or by the Faith of him in what he hath done and is become for us and in the hope set before us in him yea he himself as so known believed by them is in their hearts by faith the hope of Glory the ground of it in what he hath done and the thing hoped for in what is further to be revealed and done by him Now faith is the evidence of things not seen as well as the confidence of things hoped for by it our fathers saw and rejoyced in the promises of the Sufferings of Christ and the Glory that should follow when both were yet afar off to come Heb. 11. with 1 Pet. 1. 10 11 12. And we have much more advantage to behold and rejoyce in him the works being finished which the Father gave him to do upon the earth and now the word of faith manifested the Preaching fully made known with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven yea therefore because the works are now actually finished as vertually they were from the foundation of the world because God hath raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead who was delivered for our offences and raised again for our justification therefore being Justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ by whom also having now received the atonement as already made by his blood we have access by faith into this Grace in which we stand and rejoyce in hope of the Glory of God and not onely so but we glory in tribulations also proving a blessed fruit of them because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given us in this Preaching of the Cross that when we were yet without strength in due time Christ dyed for the ungodly c. see Rom. 4. 22. 24 25. with chap. 5. 1. 11. And so the eating his flesh and drinking his blood as we are now instructed to it since the works were finished in the Person of Christ which the Father gave him to do on the earth is signified to be in a believing mindfulnesse and remembrance of the Lords death as already actually finished and past and so of him in what he hath therein and thereby compleated in himself for us therein considering him in the infinite and abiding vertue and preciousnesse of that blood or death of his Cross as mightily declared in his being raised and glorified in that body by means thereof and as brought to us in the preaching of that his Cross with the evidence and demonstration of the spirit and power and so in seeking rest righteousness strength and rejoycing in him in and by such believing in him So likewise the Blood of Christ purgeth the Conscience through Faith in that his Blood Blood shed or death and not by shedding blood again or by doing or causing to be done or 〈◊〉 the â—ame oâ— like things in their persons that were done and suffered in his person for sin for to him give all the Prophets witnesse that through his Name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins while through his Name the heart is stayed on him in a believing mindfulness and remembrance of him in what he hath done and so closing with and considering him in what he is thereby become for Sinners he further powers out his spirit opening and making known his words and so sprinkling upon the heart his Blood viz. the discoveries and openings of his blood shedding or death the infinite vertue and pretiousness of it with the Father The Grace manifested in and through it and so makes the Truth even the Preaching of the Cross powerful in their so knowing it to make them free from the Law and from the Dominion of sin by it John 8 32. 1 Cor. 1. 18. Acts 20. 32. and 10. 43. with Heb. 9 14. and this the Apostle confirms by his experiment Rom 8. 2 3. for the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus which is no other but the Glorious Gospel with the Light and Power of Gods Spirit in it Rom. 1. 16 17. 2 Cor. 3. that sayes he hath made me free from the Law of sin and death and then speaking to the reason of that efficacy and the means by which it did it he shews that it was not by accomplishing those or like works in him as was finished in the Person of Christ in his being delivered for our offences and raised for our justification but in and by the opening and spiritual sprinkling on his Soul that Bloodshedding or Death and Sufferings of Christ for the Remission of sins and that in and through the Preaching of it shewing the pretiousness pertinency and fulness of that to the purpose for saith he What the Law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin condemned sin in the flesh that the Righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit minding the things of the spirit who takes off the things of Christ that he hath suffered done and shewing them glorifies him as the end of the Law for Righteousness to every one that believeth compare it with Rom. 5. 1. 11. and chap. 1â—3 John 16. 8. 10. 13 14 15. and so the Lords death his once suffering in the flesh for sins the just for the unjust which as to the actual accomplishment or sustaining of it is over and past but for ever accepted and had in everlasting remembrance with the Father and in the Fountain of
A Fuller Discovery OF THE Dangerous Principles And lying spirit of the People called Quakers made manifest in George Whitehead John Whitehead and George Fox the younger In their Book against Iohn Horne and Thomas Moore of Lin Regis in NORTHFOLK Written by the said Thomas Moore and Iohn Horne for the fuller satisfaction of all such as desire to be further satisfied about the evil and erroniousnesse of the said People called Quakers Most men will proclame every man his own goodnesse but a faithful man to Christ and his Cause who can find Prov. 20. 6. I marvel yee are so soon removed from him that called you not into your selves but into the grace of Christ unto another Gospel which is not another but there be some that trouble you and would pervert the Gospel of Christ But though we even Apostles or an Angel from heaven persons of most Angel-like carriage and appearance preach any other Gospel unto you as the following Discourse shews that these Quakers do then that which we the Apostles have preached unto you let him be accursed Gal. 1. 6 7 8. LONDON Printed for John Allein at the signe of the Rising Sun in Pauls Church-yard 1660. THE EPISTLE TO THE READER ONce more we have herein presented thee Courteous Reader with a discovery of the People called Quakers in which thou mayest see from their own written and printed sayings by what manner of spirit they be led and what manner of Doctrine they publish and strive to maintain and indeed the naughtinesse of their way is made manifest partly by their Principles and Doctrines broachedly them and partly by the manner of their carriage in their managing and maintaining them Wee shall give thee here a brief account of both in a few Observations 1 For the Doctrines and Principles maintained by them thou mayest observe in their Queries sent us printed with our Answers to them at the close of our Answer to their Book against us as hintâ—d and in their book more clearly asserted or implyed these following viz. I. That Christ hath no other body but his Church no personal body and so that that body of his flesh in which he suffered and bare our sins and which rose again is not a body or is not in being Book pag. 7 8 9. answered by us in our Reply pag. 25. to pa. 42. and Quest 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 10 11. II. That the blood of Jesus Christ or his personal abasement sufferings in the flesh to the shedding and pouring out his blood and soul to Death sustained by him once in the end or last Ages of the World are not the foundation or of the foundation of their faith so that their faith is not faith in Christs blood as so considered nor is that precious blood or those sufferings of Christ that wherewith their conscience is purged or the spiritual drink of the soul but some other thing principle or spirit in men which they put the Name of the blood of Christ upon See if this conceit or Doctrine in both parts of it negative and affirmative be not hinted in their Quest 12 13 14. seeing the body of his flesh in which he suffered they deny to remain and yet say his blood is in his flesh what can they mean by his flesh but something of his Church which onely they grant to be his body and so that his blood is nothing but some seed principle or sufferings in his Church their pleading against his blood or suffering as the foundation or of the foundation of Faith thou mayst see in their book p. 14 15 16 17. answered by us here p. 52 53 54 c. III. That the lower parts of the earth into which Christ descended and the heavens into which he again ascended are no local places but some conditions or conceits in men Qu. 3 4 5 6â— Book p. 8 9. answered by us p. 26 27 33. IV. That the same body that dies shall not rise again in the Resurrection Book p. 10 11. Answered by us p. 42 to 46. and Quest 16 17. V. That the souls of the wicked shall not come out Hell at the great day of the Resurrection and judgement to be further judged they imply Quest 18. and so that neither the souls nor the bodies of the wicked shall rise again to judgement VI. That that coming of Christ in which the dead in him shall be raised and be caught up into the Ayr together to meet him and be ever with him and in which he shall descend from heaven with a short and the sound of the trumpet c. mentioned 1 Thess 4. 15 16. is already long since past For they say the Apostles and Believers of that Age in which the Apostle wrote remained to it Book p. â— Answered p. 32. Quest 15. and so they agree with Hymeneus and Philetus that said the Resurrection is already past 2 Tim. 16. to 18. VII That the Christ we look for to come from heaven again they desire not the knowledge of Book p. 10. Answered p. 41. VIII That they are sinless or have no sin in them they deny not and that those that are believers in Christ and born of God are perfectly freed from sin as to the being of it in them Book p. 1 to 6. and yet that the little children that John wrote to who were also born of God and know the Father might have sin in them Ans p. 9 10. to p. 24. IX That all sin is guide when as the scripture distinguishes guile from other sins and other sins from guile 1 Pet. 2. â— and sayes some have no guile in their spirits who yet have sins though forgiven and covered yet there to be covered Psalm 32. 1. 2. Book p. 4. 5. Answ p. 17 18. X. That Adam might have died the natural death if he had not sinned and so that the bodily or natural death came not in by sin Book p. 6 7. Ans p. 23. XI That Christ came not to redeem men from out of the natural or bodily death B. p. 7. Ans p. 25. XII That our faith that is not grounded in Christs appearing in us is to be turned up by the roots and so by consequence that all the faith that is grounded in Christs appearing and suffering for us without us and in his appearing in heaven for us and so such faith as that of the Elect mentioned Rom. 8. 33 34 35. is by these mens Doctrines to be rooted up Book p. 10. Ans p. 41 42. XIII That the Apostles and all that were led by the spirit of God c. witnessed the Redemption of the body spoken of Rom. 8. 23. when they were upon the earth and did not put it afar off as they deridingly phrase the looking and waiting for it till after death in which they say again in effect that the resurrection of the believers body is made in this life Book p 11 12. Ans p. 47 48 XIV That the knowledge
to prove that Adam might have died the natural death though he had not sinned they argue as thus Because Christ who had no sin not considering that Christ had our sins laid upon him and for them he died but Adam should have had no sin laid upon him or imputed to him had he not sinned himself But such like reasonings are too many to number up in them 4. They carry on their false designs and doctrines with lies and falshood most frequently as in saying often that we accuse the Saints and plead for sin p. 2 3 4 5. And in belying J. H. in saying that he turned G. Ws. words about his false Syllogisme above mentioned when as all that were at the dispute and heard and remembred his words may remember they were word for word as John Horn relates them Yea and in belying his own words in saying they were such as they indeed were not Again in saying we might as well have accused the true Prophets and Apostles with being Preachers of lies and deceivers as the Quakers and that the same Spirit in us that hath accused the Quakers with being deceivers that is the Spirit of Truth would have accused the true Prophets Christ and his Apostles for being deceivers page 5. That we contradict our selves in many things where we have made it we have made it evident there is no contradiction That we look for a Christ like our selves but that he hath no Blood in his Body as we imagine p. 10. That our expecting the Redemption of the Body to be waited for aster Death is contrary to the Saints expectations p. 11. and 12. In which words is both equivocation and falshood that what the Scriptures say of Christ and his Body they own in which they also either equivocate or say falsly or both they equivocate if by owning they mean as probably they do they own it as true of themselves the Quakers as if the things spoken of Christ and his Church are verified in and of them and may be affirmed of them Or if by owning they mean they believe and hold them true concerning Jesus of Nazareth and them that believe on him to be saved through the virtue of his sufferings Sacrifice and Mediation then they say falsly Yea whether this or the former be their meaning they are false therein as our reply makes manifest to the impartial Reader But who can number up their lies and falshoods in falsifying our sayings and otherwise which the following Reply will further evidence He that will procure and search and compare what Christopher Wade of Water-beach hath written against them with their writings against him may see a whole dozen of notorious lies of George Foxes clearly proved against him to which G. W. in his answer gives the go by most egregiously and in none of them disproves him 5. They misrelate and give the go-by to many of our charges and sayings as for instance We quoted Jam. 3. 2. to prove all believers here to have sin or sometime to offend to this they say nothing onely quote the place and give it the go-by telling us onely that James exhorted men to let patience have its perfect work c. Which is nothing to the purpose p. 3. So what we said of the Nature of man as it is in Christ discharged of sin Law and Death in his Resurrection p. 10. Of our former Book that they represent it as if we had said it of the Nature and being of man as in us to be discharged in our Resurrection p. 11. And whereas we charged them with denying the Humanity of Christ as to its being now in him they give it the go-by answering onely that they never denied the Man Christ for his flesh is their food p. 14. Whereas they had before denied him to have any other Body then his Church p. 8. And to our saying that Christ is not really and personally in the believer as in Heaven but by Faith they let go the words personally and as in Heaven in their answer and traduce us as denying any real being of him by Faith in the believer p. 14. More such like dealings thou mayst find in p. 15. and 18. and divers others 6. They carry their designes by reproaches Nick-names and abusive expressions in which also much hatred malice and spite against us is made evident to be in them and so that they are far from sinlessenesse to this purpose it is that in their Title page and Post-script they Nick-name us Calling us 1. Teachers of the People called Moorians or Manifestarians and called by some Free-willers and Independants which what can it proceed from but their hatred of us and indignation against us Seeing 1. The Names we own not nor are the People we Teach so called as Moorians that we know of T. M sen it seems for affirming not of himself as his own but from the Testimony of Christ and his Spirit recorded in the Scriptures that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the World and gave himself a ransom for all men and is by virtue thereof the Mediator of God and men the propitiation for the sins of the whole World and extends to men meanes leading them to Repentance and is ready to receive such as in the means are prevailed with to believe and this a good ground and motive to Repentance Faith Love c. Was by some that opposed those truths standered and called Papists or Arminian and some of the same mind with him in those truths were by means of a certain Manciple in one of the Colledges that turned Almanack-maker and reproachfully devising that Name called Moorians by some drunkards profane and cavilling persons but never owned by him nor by any of his friends much less by us or the people we teach nor do we know of any civil people or others these revilers excepted that say or write of us or of any people that they are the people called Moorians as these men call themselves in divers of their writings the Quakers the people called Quakers which makes it lawful for us also without reproach to give them that name by way of distinction in our speaking or writing of them as the names Herodians Sadduces and Pharisees are given in the Scripture to and were owned by those people 's so called without reproach to them And the rather because the Name Quakers fathers their Doctrine upon no man as the name Moorian doth nor charges it with any particular evil Opinion as the other name Manifestarian and Free-Willers import though had they been thereby wronged and reproached yet the Spirit of Truth would have led them not to return reviling for reviling reproach for reproach and to joyn hands with drunkards and others so that herein they are convicted to be sinners being guilty of reviling As also in that 2. They add or Manifestarians as if Moorian and Manifestarian were the same with them this is another of their spiteful reproaches against
lay any thing to their charge nor did God because he forgave justified and owned them through Christs death and intercession for them which he needed not to have made for them or been the propitiation for their sins had they had no sins then yea it was their abiding in the faith of Christ and living upon him as the propitiation for their sins in which they sinned not and the ceasing to live upon that as of no need for a man as having no sins for Christ to be the propitiation for is one way of going out from Christ into a mans self and so of not abiding in him not say we their sins were not destroyed as to the dominion of them over them much less that they were not freed from them through Christs mediation as to the imputation of them they were covered though they were there to cover they adde W. F. John did not say if we are not all sinners we deceive our selves but if we say we have no sin and have not sinned which if the little children that John wrote to that they might not sin had sin then John might say we have sin for he numbred himself with them as friends or those whose sins were forgiven and yet the yong men and Fathers he wrote to had overcome the wicked one and had the word of God abiding in them 1 Joh. 2. Rep. What confused deceitfull stuffe is this for 1. What doth that word which belong to and agree with And how come in those words or those whose sins were forgiven or how hang they with what went before them 2. Are they not all sinners that have sin and that have sinned What call they them then And if they had sin then how were they sinless as they plead 3. And what if John say not so yet Paul said of whom viz sinners I am the chief and said so When he wrote to Timothy and was an Apostle and James says in many things not onely we have sinned but in the presenttense we offend all are not offenders sinners 4. If the little children wrote to that they might not sin had sin what becomes then of their former argument from exhortations to be perfect or not to sin c. 5. And if John might thence say we have sin as numbring himself with them as friends what hypocrites be they then to fall so foul upon us because numbering our selves with the Nation we said we have neglected and long abused the truth But yet 6. How prove they that it was onely the little children that might have sin seeing James sayes in many things we offend all if we all then not the little children only for they were not all the body of them 't is but a presumption without proof that he onely numbred himself with the little children without any ground for it in themselves Nay it is contrary to what James saith 7. They say or those whose sins were forgiven why then be they not blind guides to say they whom the blood of Christ cleanseth from all sin have no sin in them if those that had their sins forgiven might have sin in them they that had their sins forgiven had they not all forgiven and is not forgiveness of sin cleansing from sin and that cleansing too most properly from it which is by the blood of Christ Rom. 5. 9. And if persons that have all their sins forgiven may have sin who then may not that are here They imply the young men and fathers who had overcome the wicked one and had the word of God a biding in them but then 8. Had not the little children that had their sins forgiven them overcome the wicked one and had they not the word of God abiding in them They had the same thing in substance with the Fathers for the Fathers knew him that was from the beginning and the little children knew the Father is not the Father he that was from the beginning Were they children without the word of God abiding in them or without overcoming the wicked one David says he had hid the word of God in his heart that he might not sin against him and yet how often complains he of sin and praies to have removed from him the way of lying and implies that his eyes wandred after vanity and that his waies were not yet so directed as to keep his statutes and have respect to all Gods commandements What else means Oh that my waies were directed that I might keep thy statutes and then shall I not be ashamed when I shall have respect to all thy commandements Psal 119. 5 6. 11. 29. 36. And had not Paul overcome the wicked one when he sayes sin dwelt in him Nor James when he said in many things we offend all surely they had so that their reasonings are very aiery and without any proof from Scripture or any thing but their own authority to warrant them W. and F. To Prov. 20. 9. Who can say I have made my heart clean they say this is not against them for they themselves do not say that they have made their hearts clean it being Chrsts work to cleanse and ever to have perfected them that are sanctified and Solomon saith the just man walketh in his integrity and the righteousness of the perfect shall direct his way Rep. They are shrewdly driven to their shifts for they durst not repeate the whole Scripture we all edged because they know not how to stare in the face of it and find out an handsome glosse to elude it what could they not think of one shift to evade that clause I am pure from my sin Yea their shift for the other is like Adams fig leaves for what though it be Christs work to cleanse yet the Apostles exhort believers to cleanse themselves from all filthiness of flesh and Spirit may not a man as well collect from thence that a man may cleanse himself from all filthiness of flesh and Spirit and so make his heart clean as from other exhortations to be perfect to infer that a man may be free from all inherency of sin here Again Peter saies seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit and in such a sense who can say I have made my heart clean so as that I am pure from my sin And surely though Solomon saies the just man walketh in his integrity yet he speaks not of a just man that hath no sin or sinneth not for he saies there is none such upon earth Eccles 7. 20. Which Scripture next you shamefully elude for because it s said there is not a just man upon earth that doth good and sinneth not they sâ—y W and F. Mark for there among those that were in their changeable State nor among them that are born of God for they cannot sin Rep. Ah fie for shame where speaks he of such a the◠〈…〉 in their changeablâ— State Doth not George Whitehead en 〈…〉 and doth the word
that he should even so come again in like manner as they had seen him go up into Heaven for that was in a body with flesh and bones in it and was visible to the eye till a cloud received him out from their sight and that this you deny appears in what you have said before of the Church being his body onely and by what follows viz. That as he who is the Word became flesh so when the days of his flesh were finished he was translated into his own glory which he had with his Father from eternity and so the second Adam is a quickning Spirit for in those words you imply that his flesh or the substance of his body in which he bare our sins is ceased and so that his humanity or what he took of the Virgin and of the seed of David after the flesh is gone so as he is onely a Spirit without any human body but how then did the Apostle oppose Christ in his ascending into Heaven unto David Acts 2. 34 45. For by that David ascended as much as Christ for his Spirit went to God when his body went to the dust Eccles 12. 7. And it seems by your sayings Christs body is not ascended but by the Apostles saying Christ is opposed to David in ascending in what he David ascended not whose body he says is the sepulchre therefore it follows that the body of Christ is ascended and is taken up into glory and is called the glorious body of Christ to which the believers body is to be conformed and changed into its likeness not into the Churches likeness sure which as yet is much of it in a suffering state and not a glorious body yea the Apostle tells us that of the fruit of Davids loines according to the flesh Christ is raised up to sit upon his throne Acts 2. 30. Is he the man Jesus the Mediator of God and us the propitiation for our sins as a Spirit merely Or is he the man Christ as he is God in us or a Spirit in Union with his Church And is so as he the propitiation for our sins then he bare his own sins in his body and is the propitiation for himself seeing the Church is he or part of him his body that was offered up for us It 's true the second Adam was made a quickning Spirit yet abides a man and hath a glorious body dictinct from his Church to which our body is to be conformed even as Adam was a living soul yet had a natural body W. and F. To your question you aske us viz. Whether we believe that body the saints upon earth do discern and which the world cannot discern is a body of flesh and bones yea or nay We answer it 's the body that was broken for us and is to be fed upon by us as is plain in 1 Cor. 11. 24. 29. not discerning the Lords body it 's that that is remembred and communicated with in the supper of the Lord which ordinance you have denied in your queries to us and that body was the same that Christ shewed to have flesh and bones in it and in which he went up into Heaven as before think you the Church was given and broken for us and is the breaking of the Church that which we are to have communion with and remember as the matter of our seeding in that Ordinance Though the body mysticall of Christ his Church is also to be discerned by the believers and is not by the world but if the Church be the body discerned which in the supper we have the communion of and which was broken for us then the flesh of Christ which we eat is something of the Church the flesh and substance of the Church and so the Church is to eate itself what confused stuff is this that is insinuated by you to us But by the reason you give off your propounding that question viz. seeing we own the believers or Church to be the body of Christ and plead for another body of Christ distinct from them it 's plain without contradiction that you deny the personall body of Christ to be and abide in the Heavens and to deny the man Jesus to be the Object of the believers faith and why shamed you to speak out this so broadly at the dispute Was you then more bashfull and are since grown more audacious and impudent W. and F. They say It 's grosse confusion to say that believers are Members of Christs flesh and bones and then to say they are not flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone as if Christ had two bodies of flesh and bone one of which the saints are not Members when the Apostle says as much as they were flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone in saying no man ever hated his own flesh but nourisheth it and cherisheth it even as the Lord the Church for we are Members of his body of his flesh and of his bones Ephes 3 30. Rep. Surely the grosse confusion is clearly in themselves here as is easie to demonstrate 1. They bely us in saying of us that we said what we said not viz. That believers are Members of Christs flesh and bones we said the Apostles preached that the believers are Members of his body of his flesh and of his bones neither the Greek nor the Latine as G. W. At least as to the Latine may know will bear that construction Members of his flesh and bones but Members of his body of that is out of his flesh and of or out of his bones ex carne ejus ex ossibus ejus 2. Is his Church flesh and bones said they not above that a body of flesh and bones cannot be said to be in the Heavens but if believers be a body of flesh and bones as they are if they be flesh of his flesh and bone of his bones must they not needs be then a body of flesh and bones in Heaven seeing they grant his body to be in the heavens yea to be the fulness of God that filleth all in all both in Heaven and earth is flesh and bones the fulness of God filling all in all both in Heaven and earth 'T is true that the Church consists of Members that each of them have personall heads and bodies of flesh and bones as men but are they flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone Is our flesh of Christs flesh and our bone of Christs bone How then hath not Christ flesh and bone of his own distinct from the body his Church if our flesh be flesh of his flesh and our bone be bone of his bone Doth not that phrase speak plainly of flesh and bones of his distinct from the Church which they say too is flesh and bone is not the confusion then in these men that deny Christ to have a body of flesh and bones distinct from his Church and then to say his Church is flesh of his flesh and bone of
life of the natural body preserved by food turned into blood and not of a spiritual and raised body as his Speech was To their Question What is the Body of flesh and bones turned into then We Answer His Body had flesh and Bones in it in the raised changed state as he shewed his Disciples And therefore that they are changed into any other thing or that the bodies of the Saints raised shall not have Flesh and Bones in them as his had follows not What they say in the remainder of page 17. is all spoken to before W. and F. Whereas p. 18. they say That they believe not that when Christ after the Resurrection shewed his Disciples his Hands and his Feet his Body then had no blood in it We will not contend with them about it for neither is it an Article of our Faith though their conceit proves not that it had nor can it be any thing more then a meer guesse though they are so infallibly led they pretend that they must not be thought by their Disciples to guesse at any thing as if they knew it not They alleadge that he eat before them of the broiled Fish and Hony Comb which is nourishment both to flesh and blood Reply T is so to our Natural Bodies follows it that it was so to his raised spiritual Body They say The Blood is the Life of that that hath need of such nourishment yea the life of all flesh is Blood Gen. 9. 4 5. Levit. 17. 14. Reply This is true of mortal flesh in its natural state but that Christ eat because he needed such nourishment after his Resurrection for his raised body we believe not but to demonstrate by infallible proofs that he was truly raised in a real and not a fantastical body And therefore all this is to no purpose As for what they prate of The Body of Christ in Glory and the Bodies of the Saints in the Resurrestion that they shall as far exceed in Glory these our earthly bodies as the Sun Moon and Stars do exceed the bodies of birds beasts and Fishes These are but Visors to hide their uglinesse for what resurrection is there of the Saints if that body that dyed shall never rise Can any thing be said to rise again that never fell or dyed as they say The body that dies shall not But therefore they tell us The mystery of these things is for ever sealed up in Parables from such blind guides as they reproach us to be who have long abused the Truth c. It seems Reader they would have thee know that whatever they seem to say fairly they have another meaning couched under it and so they walk in hidden things of dishonesty and deal deceitfully and would make us believe the Apostles did so too who commended themselves to every mans Conscience in the sight of God and did not hide their meanings but speak openly what Christ spake to them in parables but these have usually another meaning for the Apostles sayings because they believe them not in their own meaning in which they uttered them understand Reader that as Joseph Fisher a Quaker in a Paper to us implies the change of the Body is made by the Babe within here before the separation of the Soul and Body and so that their spiritual bodies are those that excel so in glory above the Bodies of Beasts and Birds that is those that are not in and of the same corrupt mind with them Some such mystery they put upon the Apostles plainest sayings to make them Parables To justifie their corrupt Doctrine that the Scriptures are not the Medium of Faith which we disproved from John 17. 20. Acts 17. 11 12. They alledge That no Scripture sayes the Scriptures are the Medium of Faith Reply Nor say they Christ is the Medium neither though the word Medium be not expressed the sence of it is as through their words They say The Apostles were not Ministers of Letter Reply If by Letter they mean the writing of words as in Epistles and Letters its false for they Ministred the Knowledge of God both by Vocal Preaching and by writing it in Epistles and Letters so as men in reading their writings might see the Truth and acknowledge it and understand their Knowledge in the Mystery of Christ 2 Cor. 1. 13. Ephes 3. 4. 5. and though their words however Ministred by them whether by audible voice or writing our Saviour supposes men should believe for he limits it not to any one way of Ministration Are not the sayings of the Apostles their words because they be written The Letter of which the Apostles sayes they were not Ministers is clearly the Law opposed to the Gospel which is a Ministration of Spirit whether spoken or written Now through their words is all one in sence as to say their words are a Medium of mens believing To that of the Bereans they say That the Bereans first received the Word with all readinesse of mind and then searched the Scriptures But this they say of their own head for the Scriptures say not so but that they received the word with all readinesse of mind and searched the Scripture and that therefore many of them believed which implies their searching the Scriptures and finding them to agree with the Apostles words was a Medium or mean of their readier believing But of those words urged by us they take no notice they could once and again make something of there when it signified nothing but hereof but hereof therefore when it signifies or points to a mediate cause they make nothing Oh perverse and crooked generation nor doth the mentioning their searching the Scriptures after the mention of their receiving the word imply that they first received the word and then searched the Scriptures no more then the mentioning of mens confessing with the mouth the Lord Jesus before the believing him in the heart raised from the dead Rom. 10. 9. implies that the confession must be first in being before believing in the same person Nor doth the Greek mention any and but reads it thus these received the word with all readinesse searching the Scriptures and that manner of phrase usually signifies the latter as a means to the former as may be seen Acts 8. 3. 6. 9. 13. Heb. 12. 1 2. c. their confounding the Author with the Medium is a piece of their confusion though Christ be the Author of Faith and bring to believe that hinders not but the Scriptures and the Doctrine therein declared may be and is the Medium but these are truly Blind guides that are destitute of understanding wo to the people that are led by them Page 19. John Whiteheads witnessing against our charge of him with saying That the Apostles were not bringers of light but onely pointed to what they had before is of no credit with us because we know it to the contrary in his speaking and so do the Auditory if they remember
the Kingdom of Grace of Salvation of Life is meant that Declaration or Revelation of his Name and Grace in Christ as witnessed and spoken forth by the one mouth of his Holy Apostles and Prophets since the World began who have spoken to us in the Name of the Lord Psal 147. 19. Mark 7 13. Acts 3. 21. and 10. 36. Tit. 1. 3. Col. 3. 16. John 5. 24 38. and 8. 31. Mat. 13. 19. Acts 20. 32. Phil. 2. 16. 2 Cor. 3. And it is the Word in this sence the Gospel of Christ or Preaching of his Crosse that is the Arm or Power of God to save even to open the eyes of the blind and turn them from darknesse to light and from the Power of Satan to God and to the further saving the believers here in this Life 1 Cor. 1. 18. Rom. 1. 16 17. This is made able through him that is declared in it and Spiritually present with it to save the Soul to build up and give the inheritance in the first fruits of the Spirit to the making the Spirit alive for the Righteousnesse sake while yet the body is dead because of sin and to preserve the whole man blamelesse to the coming of Christ For this is that which he the Son of man sowes in the heart and ingrafts there for the saving the Soul Jam. 3. 21. Mat. 13 19. Acts. 20 32. And so his faithful Servants that have it in their hearts Ministering in this Word are said instrumentally to convert and save the Soul Jam. 5. 20. Acts 26. 18. with 1 Cor. 3. 5. 11. and 4. 15. 2 Cor. 3. 3 And so our further answer is 1. The saving or Salvation of the Soul includes the Salvation of the whole man 1 Pet. 1. 9. Jam. 5. 20. with Psal 33. 19 20. and 34. 22. and 72. 13 14. For that which is not received now in some first fruits of enjoyment yet is assured in and with Christ and received by Faith and in the hope that is by him as Rom. 8. 10 11. 23. Col. 1. 27. with Heb. 6 19 20. Besides some of the forementioned Scriptures speak of the Redemption and Salvation to be revealed in the last time in which the body shall by him be redeemed from death and all deceit and violence and their former sufferings be remembred as Rom. 8 18. 23. And do evidently include that under the redeeming of their Soul as Psal 72. 13 14. 2. Though no Scripture saith the Soul onely as distinguished from the body is to be saved by Christ But contrariwise that through him both may be saved Yet in this saving work effected by his word or through the Preaching of his Crosse the Soul is onely mentioned in divers Scriptures as the subject of it for these Reasons 1. It is the Spirit or Soul distinct that is made alive and so chiefly the subject of the Saving or Redeeming here effected in this day while yet the body distinct though devoted and yeilded up to his dispose and so in some 〈…〉 yet remaineth mortal and so dead by reason of sin and so even those that have the first fruits of the Spirit yet wait for the Adoption that is the Redemption of the body and though the inward man be renewed day by day yet the outward man decayes and perisheth Rom 8. 10. 23. 2 Cor. 4 16. 2. The saving which is now effected in them is wrought mediately through that word Preached in and by outward means wayes and instruments whereas that compleat saving in which the dead body shall be raised redeemed and fashioned in to the likenesse of his glorious body though it shall be by Christ and by his mighty Voice which now breathes and is put forth in and with the Gospel yet by an immediate and wonderful putting forth of it without the use of outward means and instruments according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself Phil. 3. 21. Rom. 8. 11. The next part of their Query is what is the difference between the Soul and the Spirit seeing the Word of God divides them asunder To that we answer 1. The text saith not that the Word of God makes a difference between or devides them asunder one from another But that it pierceth even to the dividing asunder both Soul and Spirit and so of the Joints and Marrow and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart That is it pierceth through all and so as much through Spirit as Soul to a discerning and manifesting too at his pleasure the counsels of the heart even after the similitude of a Sword that pierceth through a man which devides not one part from another but makes way for it self Yet 2. There is distinction between Soul and Spirit in the Scriptures though sometimes both are comprehended under either of the termes and as distinguished the Spirit of a man his mind or understanding with the inclination or bent of his Soul is the Candle of the Lord which when lighted by him by his inspiration giving understanding and fixing it searcheth or the Lord by it searcheth all the inward parts of the belly And the Soul is that belly or inward parts in Solomons sence searched by it Prov. 20. 27. Even all the faculties of the Soul and its exercises with the thoughts and intents of the heart c. as Heb. 4. 12 13. Answerable to which distinct sence of Soul and Spirit is that profession Luke 1. 46 47. and calling upon both Psal 103. 1. And the Apostles prayer that their whole Spirit and Soul and Body might be preserved blamelesse c. 1 Thes 5 23. Both which Soul and Spirit are oft included in one of the tearms as 1 Cor. 6. 20. and 3 John 2. And so the whole Soul or Spirit and Soul may here be renewed delivered and preserved through the Grace of God in Christ bringing Salvation from under the guilt and bondage of sin while yet the body is dead and by putting on that new man the body also may be delivered and preserved from under the dominion of sin that henceforth it should not serve or fulfill it though sin be still in the members warring against that new Law of the mind Rom. 6. 12 13 14. 19. and 7. 15. to the end and 8. 1. 13. and 12. 1. 2. Gal 5. 16 17 18. Ephes 4. 20. 24. c. Col. 3. 1. 5. 10. 25. Question Whether men must be justified by the same Righteousnesse of Christ in them which Sanctifies them yea or nay Answ The true Prophets and Apostles never use the phrase of Christs Righteousnesse in men when speaking of that by which men are Sanctified or Justified for though the sanctifying and justifying effecacies of it be in them as also in Heaven with the Father for them yet that which hath those effecacies and so by which they are sanctified and justified is the Righteousnesse wrought and perfect in himself for them in whom they are compleat For he
who knew not sin was made to be sin for us that he might be made the Righteousnesse of God in him for all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God being justified freely by his Grace through the Redemption he saith not that in us but that is in Jesus Christ whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation c. Yea with his stripes it is that men are healed either in such a sence as in which it may be affirmed in all men or in such a sence as in which its onely true of believers in whom the healing effecacie is Yet that by and with which they are healed is his stripes his Righteousnesse perfected in him through sufferings 1 Cor. 5. 25. Rom. 3. 23 24. c. Isa 53. 5. 1 Pet. 2. 24. And so they are made accepted in him Ephes 1. 6. Whence the Apostle desired to be found in him not having on his own Righteousnesse but that which is through the Faith of Christ the Righteousnesse but that which is through the Faith of Christ the Righteousnesse which is of God by Faith Phil. 3. 9. For of God believers are in Christ Jesus who of God is made unto us Wisdom Righteousnesse Sanctification and Redemption that he that rejoyceth might rejoyce in the Lord 1 Cor. 1. 30 31. with Phil 3. 3. c. But these men being so corrupt and reprobate concerning the Faith of his Person and personal sufferings must needs reject and deride imputed Righteousnesse viz. mens being the Righteousnesse of God in him in an answerable sence as he was made sin for us Their Question therefore as an unlearned Question the phrase of which the Scripture owns not we reject and yet for the help of others further add 1. That the Righteousnesse of Christ by and with which he justifies and sanctifies is one and the same And it is that Righteousnesse which he hath wrought for us in his own body in his whole abasement and laying down his Life that he might take it again for us and so that Righteousnesse of Christ and he himself as the Lord our Righteousnesse and Captain of our Salvation was made perfect through sufferings and in his Resurrection and offering up himself in that body through the offering of which body of Jesus Christ once for all we are sanctified for by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified Rom. 5. and 6. 1 Pet. 2. 24. Rom. 3. 23 24. 27. Heb. 2. 10 11. 14. 15. and 5. 9. 9 12. 14. and 10. 5. 14. with Psal 40. 6. 9. and 71. 15 16. 2. This Righteousnesse of his in what he hath already done and by means thereof is become for us is brought nigh and made known to us in the evidence and demonstration of his Spirit by his Righteousnesse and Faithfulnesse in what he is now doing in the Name of the Father for us in his executing the Office of an Apostle or Messenger of the peace he hath made and is become for us and the Office of an High Priest making intercession and appearing in the presence of God for us that Spirit may be sent forth in his Name to us making known his Words and by or through the knowledge of his Name Justifying and Sanctifying and so making free from the dominion of sin that henceforth they should not serve it 1 Tim. 2. 5 6. Heb. 3. 1. Isa 53. 11. with 1 Cor. 6. 11. and Acts 10. 43. John 8. 31 32. T it 3. 4 5 6. 3. The way of receiving this Righteousnesse and so for experimenting the Justifying and Sanctifying effecacies of it is by Faith in Christ even in his Blood or Death in belief of the Testimony God hath given of him and so in believing in him as the Scriptures hath said John 7. 38 39. Rom. 3. 21 2â— 27. and 4 5. 22. 25. and 5. 1 2. Acts 26. 18. Now Faith is the evidence of things not seen or sensibly possessed as before is shewed see these things more fully in the answers to their Eleventh and Twelfth Queries And as for those renewing sanctifying justifying effecacies of this Grace in Christ which it hath in the believer and so in some sence he sensibly enjoyes as they are not the Righteousnesse of Christ by which he is justified and sanctified But the fruits and effecacies of that so neither are they the object or ground and foundation of his Faith from whence it is begotten living and working but the fruit and end of his Faith Jesus Christ himself as declared in the Gospel is the Object and also the Ground and Foundation of that Faith that is so fruitful he dwelling in the heart by Faith and not otherwise works effectually to the fulfilling all the good pleasure of his goodnesse and the work of Faith with Power Ephes 3. 17. c. 2 Thes 1. 11. All other sanctifications are no better then those Isa 65. 3 4 5. and 66. 17. 26. Question What is that Light with which Christ lighteth every man that cometh into the World which Thomas Moor said is both natural and Spiritual Answ They vary Thomas Moors saying as divers times they did their own Question about the light at that meeting his saying was in answer to their Question as thus stated after other formes of stating it before which when plainly and undeniably answered they see would not serve their turn they then turned it thus What is the Light which Christ giveth or with which he lightneth every man that cometh into the World Is it Natural or Spiritual His answer to this was that he is the Author and giver of both Naturall and Spiritual light even of all that is truly called light and good to men Light being opposed in Scripture as well to sorrow affliction bondage and misery of the outward man as to ignorance and darknesse of the mind and so any help or refreshing in or deliverance out of trouble yea the mercies of the Natural life tending to the comfortable being of it these are called light Hest 8. 11. 16 17. Isa 45. 7. and 50. 10 11. And the contrary evils called darknesse as in the two last cited Scriptures so in Isa 8. 22. And in every mercy of that nature mens condition is bettered from what it must have been if Jesus Christ had not come into the World the Life in him doth and alwayes did produce the light of men even that life that was in him by vertue and by means of his coming into the World and being delivered to death for our offences and raised again for our Justification which was of virtue force and efficacie with the Father before the actual accomplishment of it even from the beginning of mans need when it was undertaken and he fore-ordained and the purpose and Grace given us in the witnesses and oracles of it and so by him and by means of his coming into the World his appearing once in the end of the World to put away sin by the
would rise and cannot he wants power he would do the will of the Father but cannot it seems till the power reach to him and so he may say too as Paul said To will is present with me but how to perform what I would I find not If the power be the Christ then how was Christ there where he lies burthened with corruption in man and making his grave with the wicked before he was begotten for the power is not begotten in all that Christ is in as a suffering seed and so he suffers before he be begotten and he by whom all things were made is in some men and yet his power not begotten which when it reaches to the seed it rises in it by degrees surely as men in whom he is give way to him 5. Yea here we may see the reigning of their Christ too and of his Saints with him in that they say in some he suffers and in others he reigns and is known to be Prince of Peace Is Christ divided then or doth some part of him in some suffer and other part reign in others it seems he hath neither done dying nor been at any time without his Reigning and his to Reign with him so that here we have the Mystery of their Religion 6. Nay what is this seeds rising but the Redemption of the body with them for as for the Redemption of any Natural body of man from the Natural death on them or judgement on them after that death they plainly deny it onely they talk of a seed shall rise and what is that but this seed that they say Christ takes after the flesh 7. Note here also how this their imagined Christ differs from our Christ the true Christ witnessed to and Preached in the Scriptures for their Rock is not as our Rock their Christ as our Christ themselves being Judges Deut. 32. 31. with their Book pag 10 our Rock is God in Christ and so our Lord Jesus Christ between whom and their Christ consider these differences 1. Our Christ is that Holy and Innocent man that was born of the Virgin Mary and lived in his personal body upon the Earth in the dayes of Augustus and Tiberius Cesars amongst the Jews And who in that body of his was crucified or nayled on a Tree died and was buried and rose again the third day and appeared in the same body to his Disciples after which he in that his body left the World ascending up from the Earth into the highest Heavens where he is Glorified with Gods own Self the fulnesse of the Godhead dwelling in him bodily He being God over all blessed for ever This is he whom these perverters deny and jears at as having the form and body of a Man and set up another thing in his stead that hath neither personal head hands nor feet flesh or bones proper to himself but an imaginary seed within every man desiring to follow after God and be free from sin which they call the Light the Christ the Power of God c. 2. Our Christ in a personal body of his own distinst from and out of our bodies bare our sins to and on the Tree or Crosse and so in that body died for our sins and in the same body rose for our justification that we believing in him might be justified by his Blood and accepted in his Righteousnesse and from thence have sin die in us and we dying to sin might live to Righteousnesse These plead for a Christ without any body of man distinct from others or out of them but a certain seed with an imaginary flesh and blood dying and beating sin in every man and rising where the Power reaches to it in men having no other body but what is in some men dying yea in every man in its time and in some men rising but not in all 3. Our Christ in his said body did once and but once in the last Ages of the World little more then one thousand six hundred years since suffer and die and rise again and can now therein die no more death hath no more dominion over him but he is alive for evermore in that body Glorified in the Heavens which these perverters deny But their Christ is alwayes suffering and so dying in some men and rising in others and reigning in some and so hath been alwayes dying and rising in mâ—n from the beginning of the World and so will be to the end their words plainly enough import as much 4. Our Christ by that his death once suffered and in his Resurrection in that his body that body once in sacrifice offered up to God hath overcome Death and the Devil slain the enmity and taken out of the way all that was contrary to us redeemed us from the curse of the Law obtained eternal Redemption for us and received the immeasurable fulness of the Spirit in the man and for men and is become Wisdom Righteousnesse Sanctification and Redemption being by virtue of all his foresaid sufferings and sacrifice the propitiation for the sins of the whole World of man kind the Mediator of God and men that all that believe in him may by Faith be reckoned after him and receive of the virtues hereof a first fruits of the Spirit making their Spirits liâ—e for Righteousnesse sake and giving them the hope of the fulness in Soul and Body at his coming again to be enjoyed by them for which they wait of all which these Perverters make nothing as James Naylor writ to a certain Gentleman by way of reproach Thou lookest to be saved by a man that dyed 1600. years ago this is that they scoff at giving out in their words that the death they mean of is not the death of a man in a Mortal body which was Natural and must have dyed they say though sin had never been But the death they mean is the death of the Seed or Christ that is alwayes dying and rising sometime in one and sometime in another which death and resurrection they extol and account the other but a shadow and figure of 5. Our Christ being in his glorified Bodie in the Heavens the fulnesse of the Godhead dwelling in him bodily by his spirit draws in many to believe in him of whom he in his Personal body is the Head and they the Members are one spiritual body or Corporation But these Perverters denying that their Christ hath any Personal body made but one Body in and of all and that the Seed sure for the Natural Bodies of themselves and others they say must die and never rise again and therefore sure they are in their account no part of Christs Body that must live ever and sure that Seed is no Personal Body but a conceited spirit that is within them with a conceited flesh and blood in them to This is the fulnesse of God they say whereof they are every one of them in this Seed the Members such an Idol was scarce ever in any Generation
of men set up before 6. Our Christ is by his Word and spirit and the riches of his Grace in the hearts of his people by faith quickening and inlivening them which these perverters deny and jeer at and say Their Christ in all the reality of his Body with his Flesh and Blood is wholly within them for so some of them have said even sensibly bearing their sins in them though not willingly as Christ bare ours on the Tree but desiring to be free and so is rising in them and reigning in Glory So as the Redemption and Resurrection of the Body others wait for these say they have in this body within a pleasing fancy 7. Our Christ will come again personally in his own Glorious Body and every eye shall see him in which coming he will not by degrees or one after another but at once together in one moment in the twinkling of an eye change the surviving and raise the dead bodies of all that sleep in Jesus so as they shall be all mortal and meet him in the air and appear in Glory with him freed from all Hunger Persecution Sorrow and death for ever and blessed in the enjoyment of him with whom they shall reign for evermore and when he is set on his Throne he will gather all Nations before him raising all men not leaving out these Deceivers but all shall appear before his Judgement Seat even those that rebel against him and in this day deny him then shall they acknowledge him Lord and his People that have now confest him the beloved of the Lord when themselves shall be judged by him and sent into the Lake of Fire c. all which coming of his and the Resurrection of the dead and judgement after death the bodily death is by those Perverters also altogether denyed they owning no other coming of Christ then some of them enjoy now nor other Resurrection then is now sometime of one and sometime of another and yet they of them that enjoy the Resurrection of the body they talk of sometime bunger and feel pain and cry out of Persecution and must die the bodily yea and rise again to the second death too 8. Our Christ hath by his spirit so fully discovered himself in the Testimony of the Gospel that is the written verity that in and according to the plain import of the saying thereof he is to be known so far as we may know him till his coming again and by and wit that the Holy Spirit doth witnesse of him to and teach the hearts of the believers and they from the same spirit and according to the same Gospel do conside in him confesse him and hold him sorth to others and for that are opposed by these perverters Of whose Christ and their Doctrine of him though whatever is said of the true Christ or of his Church in the Scripture they apply to their false Christ and to themselves as if they meant no other Christ nor faith then the Scriptures speak of perverting them to that end Yet the scripture writing indeed speaketh not but to the condemnation overthrow and confusion thereof warning all believers not to hear or follow them nor receive them to house nor bid them God-speed But hold them accursed beware them and avoid them as Wolves false Apostles and Reprobate concerning the Faith Such the Doctrine and Principles which these men call the truth which indeed is errour and darknesse let the Scriptures be compared 2. For the manner of their managing and maintaining their doctrine let these particulars amongst divers others be noted 1. They come in their own name or authority boasting of themselves and witnessing to and of themselves and so obtruding things upon men not by and in the light and evidence of the spirit in and according to the Scriptures as the true Apostles use to do but upon their own authority and the authority of their sayings and witnessings which therefore they say also are of equal authority with c. Better than the saying of the Holy Spirit in the Scriptures as appeares by George Whiteheads answers to the Cambridge Queries To this purpose is their saying in their Title Page that what they have written and made manifest in their Book is they say by the Truth they say not which is in Christ or in the Gospel of Christ but which is in George Whitehead John Whitehead George Fox the younger to which three witnesses in their own names We oppose the three in Heaven the Father the Son or Word and the Holy Ghost and the truth that is in and is witnessed by them much of this their way of self-witnessing and obtruding things in their own name word or authority the Reader may see in their Book p. 8. 13. 18. 20 21 22 23. 26. In which they are such as the false Christs and the false Prophets of whom our Lord said to the Jews if another come in his own name him ye will receive John 5. 43. And like the Idol worshippers and preachers of whom the Lord says by the Prophet Isaiah that they were their own witnesses Isa 44. 9. And though they say the Lord saith yet they do therein as the false prophets affirming the Name of the Lord to their own words dreames fancies or deceits as in Jer. 23. 16. 25 26 27. Ezek. 13. 7. As we might also instance in some they have said of that they were Priests and Hirelings and took Tythes that were never exercised in such away as a certain woman said of Thomas Moor junior at Glentworth in Lincoln-shire and George Fox said in Bury Goal of one Disbrough brother in law to Joseph Hagger being a trads-man in London yet they pretended that they speak by the Revelation of the spirit of them in which their imposture and deceit was made manifest 2. When they do quote Scripture they usually pervert and corrupt it altering leaving out something or adding thereto corrupt and false glosses we may instance some few particulars in their book against us As 1. Alleadged 1 John 5 10. He that believeth hath the witnesse in himself bâ—ing out on the Son of God without which it is not true for the Devils believe yet have not the witnesse spoken of in 1 John 5. in themselves Jam. 2. 19. 2. They alleadge 1 John 4. 17. as he is so are we in this World to prove that they are without sin here as well or much as Christ is though its evident that contradicts the Apostle himself who says 1 John 1. 8. If we say we have no sin we deceive our selves touching which quotation because they make some specious use of it to deceive the simple We shall note some things here further about it for the help of the weak let the Reader mind then that 1. He saith not as he was besore the World was so are we in this World for so he was glorified with the Fathers own self equal to God and in his forme the same with
God by whom all things were made So there was not nor ever was or will be any other man or Angel like him and so as he was and is John 1. 1 2 3. Col 1. 15 16. Phil. 2. 7. 2. He saith not as he was when the Word was made flesh in Vnion of Person with the Son of God Gods onely Son his first begotten and first born God-man in one Person John 1. 14. 18. Mat. 1. 23. So is no man else 3. He saith not as he is now at Gods Right hand in his body glorified by virtue of that he did here on the Earth in his personal sufferings for so he is the Lord of all Angels Powers and Authorities being made subject to him 1 Pet. 3. 22. alive and living for evermore and hath the Keys of Hell and Death Rev. 1. 18. Yea so he is the Christ exalted a Prince and Saviour to give Repentance and Remission of sins Acts 2. 36. and 5. 31 32. The great High Priest and King that hath all Power in Heaven and Earth given to him Heb. 7. and 8. Mat. 28. 18. The fulnesse of the God-head dwelling in him bodily Col 2. 9 10. The Mediator of God and man 1 Tim. 2. 5. The Way the Truth the Life John 14. 6. The recoverer of Man-kind the second Man the last Adam who is made a quickening Spirit Rom 5. 14. 18. Gal. 3. 13. 14. and 4. 4. 1 Cor. 15. 45 to 49. The Saviour of the World and propitiation for the sins of the whole World 1 John 2. 2. and 4. 14. The Authour of Faith and of Salvation Heb. 12. 2. and 5. 9. The caller of all Isa 45. 22. The Head and Husband of the Church and special Advocate of believers Ephes 5. 26. and 1. 22. 23. 1 John 2. 1. So he is and was so as there never was is or will be found another in these respects as he to do that which and as he hath done and to be by virtue thereof as and what he is 4. He saith not as he is in himself in his own person and for the work done by him and excellency in him in the estimate will and love of God his Father so and in the same manner and sence are we Not so for it hath pleased the Father that in him all fulnesse should dwell and that in all things he should have the preheminence Col. 1. 18 19. And so likewise is he in the esteem of the true Church 2 Cor. 4. 5. Col. 3. 11. So as no other is as he much lesse upon the account of any thing done in and by them 5. He saith not as he shall appear at his coming again so are we in this World no that is denied by the Apostle for in that respect we are dead and our life hid with Christ in God and such conformity to him is not here to be enjoyed but waited for till his glorious appearing 1 John 3. 2. Col. 3. 3 4. none yet so as he is Phil. 3. 12. and 20 21. 6. He saith not simply as he is so are we not so for he is the mighty God Tiâ— 2. 13. God over all blessed for ever Rom. 9. 5. God-man in one person John 1. 14. Mat. 1. 23. He by whom the Worlds are upheld Heb. 1. 3. And by him God will raise and judge all men Rom. 2. 16. None therefore so as he in such respects 7. Nor saith he as he was in the World so are we though in some respects that be true He when here in weaknesse here on Earth was then Immanual the onely begotten Son of God the Saviour of the World So no other none so impowered to give forth the Gospel and appoint new Ordinances to be used as he was we may onely receive declare and use what he gave forth and appointed Yet as he when on Earth preached that Gospel and suffered shame and reproach for so doing and was humble meek loving patient and constant to the death in so doing So it becomes us to do and be that we may therein be like him John 15. 1â— 22. Ephes 5. 1. 2. 1 Pet. 2. 22. And so in living by Faith so as he but this Text speaks in a more proper Language for incouragement And so 8. He saith plainly not of others but of themselves the Apostles and those unfained believers that were one with them in the same Faith as he is so are we in this World He had before declared the foundation and Gods love commended therein as the ground of confidence and love vers 9. 10 11. like that in Rom. 5. 1. 10. And how by the abiding of this love in us God dwells in us and his love is perfected in us vers 7 8. 12 13. And then affirming that they had seen and did Testifie that the Father sent the Son the Saviour of the World vers 1â— and how they had known and believed the same commended through him and how they that have believed and dwell in that love dwell in God and God in them vers 15 16. He adds herein is love with us or our love made perfect he saith not so perfect as there is no fear in us because there is none in love but that perfect love casteth out fear c. doth dayly or continually cast it out as it riseth in us that so we may have boldnesse in the day of Judgement And giveth this as the reason because as he is which can here be no other then as he is in the publication and demonstrations of him in the Gospel approved and received or dispised and rejected so are we in the declaration and holding forth of this message approved or rejected in this World which is sutable to that foretold by our Saviour Mat. 10. 40. Luke 10. 16. Again as he used comparatively signifies not in every respect nor in the fulnesse of measure as may be seen Mat. 10. 16. Gal. â— 12. Rev. 16 15. And so here Not as he by his omnipotent power upholding the Heavens and the Earth and ruling amongst all for ever making his counsel to take place upholding his Church in the World c. Not as be is in his omniscience in the World seeing all things and beholding the hearts thoughts and wayes of all men not as he in his Perfection of Holinesse and Righteousnesse as inherently found in us He is yet about that work to bring his Church to that that he may in his season present them so to himself Ephes 5. 26 27. 1 Thes 5. 23 24. Acts 3 19 20 21. Because of his perfect Righteousnesse and Power vengence belongs to him and he may punish and cut off at his pleasure not so we Rom. 12. 19. So that such an assuring to be like him as thâ—se imply in such perfection of sinlessnesse applying it to themselves is to aspire to such a likenesse to and equality with God as the Serpent tempted Eve to And no marvel if such be high conceited of themselves and
know that none such are allowed by the profest Church in England called Protestants for many years Or 3. A Heathen Priest appointed to offer bodily and bloody sacrifices to some Idol or false God if they use it in such a sence they then not onely reproach and lie against John Horn and the other but also intimately blaspheme against God and Jesus Christ the Lord as if he was but an Heathen Idol or false God for to none other doth John Horn perform any Act of Divine Worship It s probable they mean it in this sence for so one of their society at Whithesee called one that reads the Scripture in the Congregation Priest and when intreated to forbear be-because the Scriptures read are the Words of God and discover Christ the Lord and prayers were directed to God in his Name and the Gospel by one also was then Preached and Christ is the true Lord and not Baal he grew more fierce at that and called Mattan Mattan Mattan meaning Mattan the Priest of Baal 2 Kings 11. 18. By which thou mayest see Reader what reproachers they be of Christ and the Christian Religion in any of these bad sences if they use this tearm Priest of J. H. they are not onely revilers but notorions lyars Or 4. If they use it as prophane men in contempt of the Ministers that know not else what sence the word Priest hath save onely they judge it reproachful then have they at best joyned therein with the false prophane scoffers Ishmaelites and evil men And so it appeares however that they were not led by the Spirit of Truth which leads none to be revilers so that had they called their writing their own witnesse and not the witnesser of the truth in them which indeed is not to them 1 John 1. 8. 10. they had done yet lesse evilly then they have in putting their falshoods and reproaches upon the Truth 3. But besides these their Book is full of reproaches elsewhere as that we accuse the Saints and brethren pag. 3. Are in confusion and are wise men of Babylon pag. 5. and 7. Rail against the Innocent pag. 5. plead for sin pag 6. Say that we like fools whom the Apostles reproved would not be satisfied with their Answer pag 10. That the Body of Christ which is Spiritual is not discerned by us whose minds are out of his spirit pag. 8. that we establish a blinde and dead Faith pag. 15. Are blind guides pag. 16. 18. that we know not naturally pag. 13. That they might have received as good an answer from School Boys pag. 16. Call us dreamers and this say they is a dreame and one of John Horns divinations pag. 17. Call us Hypocrites and power out a great deal of abusive and reproachful Language against us for owning our selves as part of the Nation that have neglected Christ and long abused the Truth pag. 22 23. c. Yea their latter part is full of abusive reproaches and revilings as well as their inward parts full of deceit and naughtinesse not like the good Apostles that brought not railing accusations though against the Deail but like the Apostles and false Teachers whose mouths are full of cursing and bitternesse 7. To name no more They carry on their own work by proud boastings and speaking high swelling words of vanity vaunting of themselves and in that also walk in the steps of the false Apostles and false Teachers who were proud boasters Fierce Heady High-minded dispisers of them that are good c. And like the Old Pharisees that justified and lifted up themselves as Righteous and dispised others Luke 18. 10 11 12. 2 Cor. 5. 12. and 11 12 13 14. 18. 2 Tim. 3. 2 3. 2 Pet. 2. 1. 10 11 12. 18 19. Judges 13. What boasters of themselves they be may appear by those passages and the like As for the Quakers dying because of which they would accuse them with being sinners here their darknesse speaking of us appeares as if the Quakers might not be thought to be sinners Again we say they of themselves shall be a heavier judgement unto you for we are a burthensomâ— stone to all the ungodly and the more ye strive against us the greater will be your torment Cease striving against the Truth of God and us his People for the more ye strive against us and the Truth we live in and are witnesses of which Truth is Christ who is also in us c. And a little after the Mighty Powerful presence of the Lord doth accompany us whereby we reach the faithfull witnesse of God in the People which answereth to the Truth of God declared by us pag. 23. The contrary to which notwithstanding these great swelling words appeared in George Whitehead in his discourse with J. H. at Lin since the foresaid vapour he being mightily baffleled as the Audience then present can witnesse So they boast themselves of their Teaching freely and not being greedy of filthy Lucre but doing what they do out of a willing mind c. This say they is owned and practised by us the servants of the Lord called Quakers c. Pag. 28. And so did the false Apostles it seems by what the Apostle writes of them 2 Cor. 11. 12. They use to boast of their free Preaching of their corrupt Doctrine too though it cost them that receive it too dear how cheap and free so ever it appeared Yea the whole latter part of their Book is little but reproaches of us and boasting of themselves Such their Doctrines and such the way of their managing them judge Reader of them both impartially and of the further discovery of them in the ensuing reply From which we shall no longer detain thee Read seriously and pray heartily to God for manifesting his Truth to thee and guiding thee into it and keeping thee from errours to him committing thee we rest March the 27th 1660. Thy helpers in the Faith and Truth of Christ JOHN HORN Sen. Juni THOMAS MOORE A FULLER DISCOVERY Of the Dangerous Principles and Lying spirit of the PEOPLE Called Quakers Made manifest in George Whitehead John Whitehead and George Fox the Younger in their Book against John Horne and Tho. Moore of Lin. HOw grossely Ignorant miserably Erroneous and Impudently wicked the Quakers be all may perceive that are of ability to judge and discern indifferently between us and them in what hath bin published by either of us yet for the sakes of those that are not able to discern by a bare reading of what they have writ or will not be at the paines to compare us impartially We have herein further noted their Ignorance Errour Confusion Hypocrisie and Deceit to their hands in which they that will but compare us may see our integrity in our dealing with them However we shall desire to Approve our selves to God therein and make manifest their deceits and falshood so as all that will may discern them 1. They lay down ten Principles in their
Epistle to the Reader as ours in which they shew their ignorance and deceit they be thus T. Moor say they affirmed That sin is a natural heritage in the beleevers while they be here To which T. Moor saith Ans This is falsly expressed his sayings were That sin is in the beleever as a natural heritage from Adam while he is in this mortal body And in noting this as erroneous they intimately deny the natural uncleanness of man by sin entring into the world by one mans sin and so that all have sinned in him and are fallen short of the glory of God in and unto which they were created Or else with the Papists imagine that its taken away by Baptism or Regeneration so as no more to be in men here But note that T. M. says its in them as a natural heritage from the first natural root fallen Adam in which is implied a distinction between what is the beleevers by nature as a son of the first Adam a man and what is his by grace as in Christ the second Adam and the Apostle tells us That by one man sin entred into the world and death by sin and that it abides in the beleever after beleeving is plain in that Paul says sin dwelt in him even then when he says it was not he that did sin but sin in him Rom. 7. 17 20. For I know that in me that is in my flesh dwelleth no good thing there his natural heritage In which also he implies that in his Spirit was that that is good dwelling as also he after says vers 22. and that sin abides not in the beleever till death we find no Scripture saith but the contrary That no man living shall be justified in the sight of God if he enter into judgement with him Psal 143. 2. If no man living but by Gods not entring into judgment with him then no man living here is without sin for if there were though God did enter into judgement with him he should be justified for God certainly cannot in judgment or will not condemn him in whom is no sin so that their ignorance and error herein appears in accusing T. M. of Error herein 2. T. M. say they affirmed that their nature is restored in Christ speaking of their own nature and that their nature is a filthy nature and Christ took upon him their nature Ans This also is falsly expressed and perverted for his sayings were to this effect That the nature or kind of man is perfectly redeemed and restored in one for all even in Christ the second Adam while yet sin is in and death upon the Individuals or particular persons of men for whom such Redemption is obtained in and by Jesus Christ Yea even the beleevers body is yet vile while not changed by death and they all waiting for the redemption of the body but here they confound things together and deal deceitfully they might as well have taxed the Apostle of confusion for saying men by nature do the things contained in the Law Rom. 2. 14. and yet by nature are children of wrath Eph. 2. 3. The word Nature signifies diversly when we say our nature is restored in Christ we speak of the nature or kind of man as it is distinguished from the nature or kind of Angels and other creatures which whole nature by reason of sin committed by it in Adam was fallen under wrath and curse but being assumed by Christ who was made flesh and man and not in the nature or kind of Angels he hath redeemed it even mans nature or being which is ours too inasmuch as we are men and restored it to favour and fellowship with God in himself and yet we say our nature kind or being as in us not in Christ for the same common nature kind or being of man is in every man though in divers persons diversly is corrupt and filthy in it self by reason of sin in it Isai 64. 6. and death upon us further then purified and purged by him yet Christ took upon him our nature as before not as it is filthy in us by sin in it but as it was under bondage to death and ourse without filth in him he being sanctified in his conception so as to be the Holy One even in his Birth Luke 1. 35. whereas others are conceived in sin and shapen in iniquity Psal 51. 5. so that there is neither error nor confusion in what is said by T. M. hereabout but they have mis-related his sayings and therefore tax them because they agree not with their Errors concerning mans natural sinfulness called Original sin and the humanity of Christ denied by them 3. John Horn they say holds that they that had no guile in them had sin in them that every sin is not guile Answ T is well they dared not to put in David with him as holding the same error for he says that man is blessed whose sins are covered and to whom the Lord will not impute sin and in whose spirit there is no guile so then it seems some men in whose spirit is no guile have sins in them though covered and not imputed to them there needs no cover for what is not yet John Horn did not say that every one that had no guile in him had sin in him for he excepts Jesus Christ who neither did sin nor had guile in him not that Principle then but the contradiction of it is the Error 4. T. M. say they affirmed That the blood of Christ shed is not in his person in heaven but the vertue of it To which T. M. saith Ans That herein also they have altered and falsified his sayings which in Answer to their Question where the blood of Christ is was to this effect That the material blood was shed and the vertue or preciousness thereof or of his bloodshedding is now with the Father in the person of Christ in Heaven forasmuch as by means and for the worth thereof he is raised from the dead and entred into heaven it self there to appear in the presence of God for us having by it obtained life from the dead even eternal life and redemption for us Mind also Reader that they say p. 15. that they blame us not nor did blame us for not asserting that the bloodshed is in the body of Christ Why then note they this as a dangerous principle had T. M. so said 5. T. M. say they affirmed That the blood of Christ shed is the foundation of their faith but where it is they answered not nor could they tell Ans The forementioned Answer to their Question was first often given and urged else what meant their reply to it to this effect That the vertue of a thing cannot be separated from the thing it self that it may be where the thing it self is not in a present reall sensible existence or being the contrary to which was then proved as is shewed in the Book they pretend to answer And further T.
that believing is which closing with that Object of faith is therefore called faith and not else 1. The Object of faith is the same that was preached by the Apostles for the obedience of faith or to the faith Gal. 1. 23. Rom. 1 3 4 5. and 16. 25 26. The most holy faith in believing to be built up in Jude 20 The precious faith of Gods elect Tit. 1 1 2 Pet. 1 2. Which object though one yet is three ways considerable 1. In respect of the most inmost and absolute Object the further and full stay of the soul and that is God Almighty the divine essence of God in Christ as evidenced by the holy Ghost in his infinite power love mercy truth c. And so God is called the trust of his people Psal 40. 4 and 17 3 5. 2. The most inmost and absolute medium which the believer discerns comes to and fastens on God and that is Jesus Christ the son of God become man the Saviour of the world c. Rom. 1 2 3 4 5. John 4. 42. 1 John 4. 14. And this as he is set forth in Scripture John 7. 37 38. Rom. 16. 26. Both in respect of what he hath done in his incarnation death resurrection sacrifice by which he made peace obtained redemption compleated righteousness and received spirit in the man and for men and what by vertue of all this he is doing in his mediation between God man and appearing in the heavens before God interceeding for transgressors and advocating and mediateing in speciall manner for believers affording and continuing means and sending forth spirit to the rebellious that the Lord God might dwell amongst them and to believers to lead them into all truth and what by reason and vertue of all said he is even the propitiation for sins wisdom righteousness holiness and redemption the Saviour of sinners the head of believers the fountain of life the Lord and Judge of all And what he hath assured in his 〈…〉 confirmed by his blood that he will do in his visible and glorious 〈…〉 the dead and causing all his peculiar to appear in glory with him and bring 〈…〉 before his judgements seate to acknowledge him and receive 〈…〉 1 Tim. 2 4 5 6. Tit. 1. 1. 2 3. and 2. 11. -14 and 3 -4. 7. And thus is Jesus Christ both the Object of faith and living and enlivening medium by which any comes to God and believe in God Heb. 7. 25. 1 Pet. 1. 21. 3 The instrumentall and outward Object or medium through which God in Christ and his well pleasedness in him and the things above mentioned are declared and according to which he is to be beheld believed and trusted in which is the faith the Apostles preached and wrote to be obeyed in believing and this is the word and Gospel of God and Christ as testified and recorded by the spiration and inspiration of the Holy Ghost in the holy Scriptures John 5. 39. and because so reported it is called his name Psal 138. 2. and believing him is in believing his Gospel Mark 1. 15. Joh. 2. 22. and 5. 47. and begins in glorifying his word Acts 13. 38. and so right believing on him is believing on him as the Scripture hath said John 7. 37. and according to his word and so trusting him in his word Pal. 56. 3 4. 10 11. and so to us-ward this is the first and outward Object and medium nigh to us discovering God and Christ that we may trust rightly in him the next which through this is come to the inmost living mediate Object discovered in that word and through that word believed in is Jesus Christ as aforesaid and so through Christ the last and most inmost and absolute Object is God in Christ 1 Tim. 4 10. Rom. 4. 24. and so the Object of faith is one that is God in Christ as discovered by his Spirit in the Gospel and this is the faith of which these opposers discover themselves by their own words to be void and of no judgement as after also may more appear 2. As for that believing which closeth with this Object of faith and is therefore called faith it is in holy Scripture shewen to have these three things in it together in one 1. A right discerning judgement and perswasion of God in Christ according to the discovery of himself in this word and testimony and begotten by this word and testimony Joh. 5. 39. 44. 47. and 7. 37. 2 Thes 1. 10. Rev. 19. 10 Heb. 11. 13. 2. From and with this an hearty imbracement of this discerned and from thence an unfeined believing and trusting in God for all the grace and glory in Christ promised Heb. 11. 13. Rom. 4. 18 -25 and 5. 8 9 10. 2 Tim. 4. 18. 3. Thirdly a yielding up the heart and powers to be saved and framed in affections choise and endeavours of service by the teachings allurements and operation of this grace believed Isa 45. 22. 2 Cor. 5. 20. Cant. 1. 3 4. and 2. 4 5 6. Phil. 3. 3 7 8 9. 1 Pet. 1. 5 6. 8. Rom. 6. 17. Tit. 2. 11 -14 Heb. 11. 13. And in these three meeting in one is that believing that closing with and receiving this Object of faith that is rightly called faith which had these opposers known they would not have avouched it an errour to say that Jesus Christ the Lord from Heaven the quickning Spirit dwelleth in believers by faith for by faith the Object discovered and believing or faith in the heart begot there they receive his word or testimony into their hearts Jam. 1. 18. 2 Cor. 3. 3. and where this word abideth in the heart there and so is Christ John 15. 4. 7. 1 John 2 24. and 5. 10. and 2. 9. And here through the Holy Ghost discovering Christ and the things of Christ the vertues of his death resurrection fulness sacrifice and by his divine light breathing and power glorifying him to their hearts John 15. 26 27. and 16. 13 14 15. 1 Pet. 1. 20. Rom. 4. 25. draweth them more on Christ 1 Pet. 2. 5. From whom they receive and believing have in them remission of sins Acts 10. 43. Col. 2. 13. Justification and peace with God in Christ access to God in that grace and hope of glory Rom. 5 1 2. 8 9 10 11. 1 Cor. 6. 11. And as these are by the word and spirit witnessed in them and received by them so and thereby is Christ in them 1 John 5. 10. 20. Col. 1. 27. And by the word and Spirit in it with these riches received is effected in them an inner man a new heart new Spirit the mind and disposition of Christ Ephes 4. 20 -24 Col. 3. 10 11. Rom. 8. 14 15. 1 Cor. 2. 16. 2 Cor. 3. 3. 17 18. And as this Spirit and mind and faith and love is in them so and therein is Christ and God in Christ in them ◠John 3. 24. and 4. 13. 16. And from this
abiding in the Spirit flow springs and fruits diffuseing themselves through the man with motions of love joy bowels of mercy heavenly desires c. Which as in them and yielded to so and therein is Christ in them Hos 14. 8. Math. 13. 33. John 7. 38 39. Gal. 5. 22 23. Who by and with all these riches of his grace indueth them with some usefull gifts more or less of the Spirit which pleaseth him in which they may be use full in and with the grace received and Christ in them and through them and they by and from him shew forth his vertues to his praise and the convincement and edification of others and reproof of opposers and so also is he in them 1 Cor. 12. 4 -12. Ephes 4. 7 -16 1 Pet. 2. 4 5. 9. and 4. 10. 2 Cor. 2. 14 15 16. And herewith also a discerning and savouring of the appearance of his grace and ointments in believers of the same fellowship in the Gospel so as though to others they be not savoury but offensive yet by them they are acknowledged tasted entertained received and approved in their hearts and so in Union of love by Christs own interpretation acceptation and approbation is he received entertained and enjoyed by them 2 Cor. 2. 15. 17. 1 John 4 6 7. Math. 10. 40 41. and 18. 5. And from and with all the former an experimental knowledge of the coming in and efficacy of the love grace and glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ and the treasures of life in him now slowing forth and the hope of the glory to be enjoyed at his visible coming again in which as they are in him so he is in them too 1 John 5. 20. 2 Cor. 4 6 7. Joh. 17. 3 6 7 Rom 7. 25. and 8. 1 2. Phil. 3. 20 21. 1 Thes 1. 3 4 5. 10. And so Christ the quickning Spirit is by faith dwelling in believers hearts and this is called the riches of the glory of the mystery among or in the Gentiles preached by the Apostle Col. 2. 27. Where the Apostle saith not as these perverters say of themselves P. 14. That Christ in them is the mystery but the riches of this mystery is Christ in men the hope of glory namely by faith in men as is before declared even in such as unfeignedly believe in him not the possession of glory which is not to be enjoyed till his glorious appearing when these mediums now in use will cease Col. 3. 3 4. 1 Cor. 13. 10. 12. but the hope of glory Thus far we have enlarged by occasion of this their eighth charge to shew how Christ dwells in the heart by faith for thy usefulness Reader and now we proceed to their following charges 9. I. H. To that of 1 Cor. 15. 45. The last Adam was made a quickning Spirit John Horn said he was distinct from the eternall Spirit Ans But John Horn added by way of explication what they fraudulently suppress that he is distinct he said not divided from the eternall Spirit in which he offered up himself to God the Holy Ghost or the third of the three mentioned 1 John 5 7. and I. H. gave this reason for what he said that the second Adam was made a quickning Spirit the Holy Ghost was not made so but was so eternally so as the last Adams being a quickning Spirit was not 10. T. M. To prove sin a naturall heritage in believers so long as they are here brought Rom 7. 17. Ans That indeed he brought amongst other proofs to prove sin even in the beleevers a natural heritage from Adam Is this a dangerous Principle to quote Scriptures for what we assert see the Answer to the first Principle noted against us besides which we may add that in that and the foregoing and following Verses some of which also were alledged is a clear distinction between the outward and inner man the new man in his Spirit that sinned not and the members or mortal body in which he says that even then sin dwelt that it was as a natural heritage from Adam appears in that he says I am carnal sold under sin not I have sold my self to sin as it is said of Ahab willingly sinning but I am sold passively as implying by another and who could that be but the first Adam by whose one offence many were made sinners That all those Principles were asserted by us as they say is false and so it is that they were contradicted by the truth as what we have said to them evinces They did wisely to say only That our darkness and confusion may easily be seen without assaying to prove it because easier said then proved Let us see what they do in answer to our Book The Reply to their Book WEE charged them and yet do to be guilty of great Errors as 1. In pleading for and maintaining a perfection of sinlessness in themselves in this life To this they say We are in the great Error our selves who deny the perfection of sinlessness in the Believers for the Apostle said He that believeth hath the witness in himself 1 John 5. 10. which witnes is perfect and sinless so not without the perfection of sinlessness Rep. See Reader they intimately grant our charge and plead for it but prevaricate or shuffle for we did not fault them for asserting a perfection of sinlesness in the witness of God nor for saying that something in the beleever is sinless but that they have the perfection of sinlesness in themselves or are in themselves sinless beside they clip the Text they quote leaving out on the Son of God the object of the right beleeving and so turn it into a lie for the Devil is said to beleeve too Jam. 2. 19. yet hath not the witness sure in himself nor doth the witness of God appear to be in them that is in the right beleevers on the Son of God they being not beleevers but denyers and underminers of him and the Fundamental matters of the testimony of God concerning him as the following Answer evinces They adde He that beleeveth hath the witness that he is righteous and having this witness in himself he is not without the perfection and purity of it in himself for the witness of God cannot be divided from the nature of it Rep. It is not true that every one that beleeveth hath obtained witness that he is righteous see Jam 2. 19. though he that beleeveth on the Son of God and so in him that justifieth the ungodly his faith is counted for righteousness and in that sense he is righteous Rom. 4. 5 6 7 22 24. and yet obtaining witness that one is righteous is a farther thing Hebr. 11. 4. and as the witness of God cannot be divided from the nature of it so neither can the Law in the members the fleshly and carnal disposition be divided from the nature of it and as the one is in the beleevers heart so the other is
perfect in knowledge and then they are wretchedly unhappy that take them for Oracles that are so ignorant If they know this then dealt they guilfully and intended to deceive simple ignorant people that cannot distinguish things that differ by their Sophistry and then the case of their followers is yet more wretched which things being so 4. Their conclusion cannot follow from those premises viz. So that he that had no guile in him had no sin in him but the contrary so that he that had no guile in him might have ignorance and other sins in him G. W. They accuse J. H. also of turning George Whiteheads words in saying he said guile is a transgression of the law therefore guile is all sin which they say is falsly framed and that the words were to this effect Every transgression of the law is guile or sin and all guile includes all transgression of the law therefore every sin is guile Rep. I call God and men to witness whither George Whitehead be not herein a notorious lyer who hath shamefully turned his own words and belyed both himself and me why else should I match it and detect his Sophistry in his syllogisme by this as like it all sin is a transgression of the law but lying is transgression of the law therefore lying is all sin It is true that syllogism of his was falsly framed and so much I told him then but it was of his own framing nor does he repeate it here as I writ it rightly and as he framed it but leaves out the word all in the minor and the whole major proposition as any that compare our books may discern And when they say their words were to suâ—â— effect as they repeat why say they not directly they were their words may they not as boldly lye and falsifie in one thing as in another and what kind of argument have they framed here sure as corrupt as that he framed then for here is but onely the same falshood affirmed in three severall forms of words to the same sense and none of them proved and yet they would infer the last form of them from the two former just like this every transgression of the law is anger or sin and all anger includes all transgression therefore every sin is anger but why saies the first proposition every transgression of the law is guile or sin t is true it s one of them if their or disjoyn then they distinguish sin and guile if it but explicate then they beg the question instead of proving it Oh! Lord deliver this Nation and the poor ignorant people from such sophisters as these be that lead men to destruction They aske G. W. What sin can we prove that Nathaniel had in him when he had no guile in him and tell us we must prove some sin then in him or see our selves confuted Rep. They may as well say seeing the Scripture witnesses that the children of Korah dyed not in the judgement that befell Korah and his company what disease dyed they of and if we cannot prove that they dyed of some disease then we are confuted if we believe and hold that they dyed For as there are many diseases they might dye of though not in that judgement so there be divers sins besides guile secret sins distinct from presumptuous sins as David implies Psal 19. 1. When they tell us what were those secret sins David prayed to be cleansed from distinct from presumptuous sins then may we tell them what sins Nathaniel had distinct from guile David implies sins in them though forgiven and covered in whose Spirits is no guile Psal 32. 1 2. Which we also quoted and that will save us from being confuted though we can prove no one particular sin in Nathaniell but that Scripture they skip over in silence as afraid to meddle with it because thereby they are confuted To our Quotation of Ed. Borroughs saying that saints upon earth may be perfectly freed from the body of sin and death and our concluding them from their doctrine of sinlesness to be deceivers They say W. and F. Here we might as well have accused the true Prophets and Apostles Rep. It seems then by their own intimation they be not such but false Prophets and Apostles what needed that word true by way of distinction of them from themselves else if not to imply that they also be Prophets and Apostles but not true Mind this Reader and beware of them then for say they they witnessed to the same the Quakers witnesse to Rep. Here they own themselves Quakers too so that we may call them lawfully so whereas they traduce us by many Nick names that we own not as Moorians Manifestarians Freewillers c. Did the true Apostles and Prophets ever so nickname their Opponents as these false ones do But let us see their proof that the true Apostles and Prophets witnessed to the same things that the untrue ones the Quakers do They adde as said the Prophet Blessed are the undefiled in the way they also do no iniquity Psal 119. 1 2 3. And saith the Lord ye shall be clean from all your filthiness Ezek. 36. 25. And Christ exhorted his to be perfect as their heavenly Father is perfect Math. 5. 48. And every one that is perfect shall be as his Lord and the same Apostle who said ye are compleat in Christ said also in whom ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh Col. 2. 10. 11. Rep. Here is no place yet saies that either those Holy men themselves or any others then living were without sin in themselves which is the thing should have been proved 1. As for the Prophet David lived not he under the old Testament as well as Solomon whose saying there is no man that sinneth not they would therewith have eluded but undefiled in the way may signifie either in Christ who is the way John 14. 6. And that we granted or in the way of their walking so as Zachariah and Elizabeth were blameless in their walking in all the statutes and commandements of the Lord and yet Zachary had sin in him which discovered it self when tried with the vision for he believed not the Angel and therefore was punished with blindness Luke 1. 6. 20. And they do no iniquity perverse evil as the word signifies is all one with they do not commit sin yet even such as do not commit sin have sin in them yea and with their flesh serve the Law of sin as we may read Rom. 7. 20. 25. 2. In that of Ezek 36. 25. They confound things distinguished for it is not said as they quote it in one and the same period you shal be clean from all your filthiness but the words are distinguished thus I will sprinkle clean water upon you and you shall be clean there 's a half stop and then follows from all your filthiness and from all your
that that which is raised was dead Well how did we represent them Why thus that that which should rise is a spiritual body and that that which died is or shall be raised It seemes we did not apprehend his errour fully enough we asked about a Resurrection to be made hereafter and he subtilly answered about a Resurrection past for where else is the change except that we say should be raised Where he said that which is raised we said that which dyed is or shall be raised and he said they say that which is raised was dead but whereas we said they might mean thereby a dead spirit dead in sin they do not at all take notice of it to deny it See then what corrupt Equivocaters we have to deal with that when we ask about the body to be raised they answered about something raised that was dead but that the body that dyeth shall be raised they will not say yea they deny it And are they not then clearly enough Reprobate concerning the Faith of it its probable that by the spirituall body that is raised they mean nothing else but the Church the body of Christ which was dead in sins and trespasses before quickened by him as Ephes 2. 4 5. and if they say no we challenge them to answer what that is that was dead is raised a Spiritual Body if not the Church of Christ as being in the World in its several ages They tell how they put the fool upon us its I kely for believing the Resurrection of the Body which the Apostles put upon the denyers of it and so rather appertains to them how they answered us plainly and we would not be satisfied that it is sown a natural body and is raised a Spiritual body Reply But yet when we asked what that it was that was sown a natural body and should be raised a Spiritual body they would never tell us and how then should we be satisfied with their Answer They say The Apostles doth not say that that which dies or is sown which is earthly shall rise Judge Reader Saith not the Apostle it is sown a Natural body it is raised a Spiritual body and this corruptible shall put on in-corruption now is not the Naturall body an earthly body and is not this corruptible an earthly body Is not that an Earthly body that is laid in the grave and is corruptible And if this corruptible put on incorruption and this mortal and is not that the Earthly body put on immortality then doth not this corruptible and Earthly body rise incorruptible and this mortal rise immortal Is it not as plain as the Sun If it be this mortal that is now mortal that puts on Immortality then its this that is now mortal that shall be in the Resurrection Immortal and if this that 's now mortal shall put on Immortality then this that 's now mortal is not to be Annihilated and lost for how can that that is not put on any thing much lesse Immortality The mortal shall loose its Mortality and put on Immortality and the corruptible shall loose corruption and corruptibility and put on incorruption but the corruptible it self and the mortal it self shall not be lost but rise Incorruptible and Immortal They say They told us that which thou sowest is not quickened except it dye and that which thou sowest thou sowest not that body which shall be mark thou sowest not that body that shall be but bare graine c. Which they say is contrary to what we affirmed that the same body namely that dies or is sowen in the Earth shall rise again Reply Now Reader minde again how they are clearly out mind the Apostles words again and mind ours and see if they be contrary the Apostle says not that which thou sowest shall never be quickened but be utterly abolished but that which thou sowest is not quickened except it die implying that if it die it even that thou sowest shall be quickened and doth not that agree with our saying that the body that dies shall be raised again even that thou sowest if it die it shall be quickened but not unless it die it is not one thing that dies and another that is quickened but the same that being sown dies is quickened being dead This confirmes and is not contrary to our saying Again the Apostle saith and that which thou sowest thou sowest not that body that shall be but bare grain but then he adds which they leave out but God giveth it mark it the same that thou sowest a body as pleaseth him to every Seed his own body the Apostle sayes that men sow not the same body that shall be nor say we that men sow or yeeld up to death the same body that shall be that is immortal incorruptible bodies for so they shall be but it s this mortal body they sow that shall be immortal and this corruptible body that shall put on incorruption and be incorruptible the same that men sow riseth but they sow it not the same that it shall rise the Apostles instance clears it evidently for saith he thou sowest bare grain it may chance of Wheat c. signifying that the body sown is not that it shall be in respect of form or condition Therefore he saith bare grain as if he should say thou sowest it not in stalk and blade and ear and kirnel in the husk as it shall be but bare grain and in that thou sowest not that body that shall be but he saith not that body thou sowest shall not come again in another manner of body but implies the contrary in saying God giveth it what it if not that it thou sowest For G. W. knows that the word it is a relative and hath reference to that that went before a body as pleaseth him that is such a body as to its form as pleaseth him to every seed it s own body that which is sutable to it self and of the same nature which it was though not the same in manner and form and this agrees with and is not contrary to what we further said viz. it is the same that is sown which is raised though it rise not the same in the same quality and condition as its the same bare grain that is sown that comes up or is quickened if it die but it comes not up the same bare grain but in the body that God gives it for the body is changed as to its quality and form so it s sown a mortal body and the same mortal body that is sown shall rise but it shall not rise the same mortal body it shall rise immortal can any thing be more plain We say the same body that dies or is sown in the earth shall rise but we say not that its the same body that dies or is sown in the earth that it shall be when it rises And therefore say not any thing contrary to the Apostles saying We say not mens bodies
the living God he was before the World was Reply But this too is false and fallacious for Christ is the Power of God as he was Crucified 1 Cor. 1. 22 23 24. and to know him so is not to know him as he was before the World was he was the Power of God before the World was but to know him as he was the Power of God before the World was is not the knowledge of him to Salvation To assert it is not to confesse but vertually to deny him as come in the Flesh The like we may say of the other phrase he is not the living God the Saviour of all men as he was before the World was for he is the living God now in the Manhood or as Immanuel God with us as made flesh and dead and raised but so he was not before the World was and as not the living God in mans Nature or Incarnate or promised so to be as such considered or as therethrough made manifest he is not since the fall the object of our knowledge to Salvation and though they say they do not deny his knowledge as in his flesh that is an Equivocal deceitful speech its evident what they say puts no necessity or grants not the sufficiency of the knowledge of him as come in the Flesh and so doth not confesse or magnifie it but exalts as sufficient that that was before and without it W. and F. They say When we can prove nothing against them and yet we have made good all our charge against them hitherto we have invented these lies against them that they may and can in their canting Language say he is manifest in England and is persecuted and dies and rises as well as in Judea and Jerusalem and that however they make no thing of his being born suffering and dying in the flesh and there they say they utterly deny us and charge us as forgers of lies for they never use they say such canting Language against Christ but own his sufferings in Judea and Jerusalem as he was a true offering and propitiation for the sins of the whole World whose sufferings were effectual both for the pacifying the Fathers wrath and for the reconciling the whole World as is witnessed by them who receive the power of his life which was manifested through Death to them that truly believed through Christs sufferings Reply To which we say that they use such canting Language we call for witness John Toldervy in his Foot out of the Snare where he tells of the Quakers turning all the Scriptures into Allegories as about Adam Moses Christ Jerusalem c. Which neither James Naylor in his Book against him contradicts or faults him for nor doth himself retract in what he write by way of submission to James Naylor in his Book called the Naked Truth yea and in a Letter to us George Whitehead saith that the Blood of Christ suffereth mark suffereth with Christ where he suffers marke its in the Present Tense for the prisoner which by the Blood of the Covenant is to be brought out of the Pit which can hold no water Now if Judea and Jerusalem be in men and Christ suffereth yet for the prisoner to be brought out by the Blood of the Covenant cannot they say Judea and Jerusalem are in England as well as any where Yea said they not above that that our faith is to be rooted out that is not grounded in Christs appearing in us Now if their faith be grounded in Christs appearing in them must it not be in Christs dying and crucifying in them if at all in his dying But indeed it is not grounded in his dying at all if it be in the knowledge of him as he was before the World was and so to what purpose say they or what do they but cant when they say that they own his sufferings in Judea and Jerusalem as he was a true offering and propitiation for the sins of the whole World and that his sufferings were effectual both for the pacifying the Fathers wrath and reconciling the whole World Let them tell us when they write again where that Judea and Jerusalem is whether it be not in them yea or nay by his sufferings at which they are reconciled to God how do they own any sufferings in Judea else Not as any thing their faith is grounded in unless they were sufferings in them and he appeared in them in those sufferings and so the Judea and Jerusalem where he appeared and suffered be in them seeing they root up the Faith otherwise grounded and how was his suffering in Judea without or any sufferings past effectual for the reconciling the whole World or pacifying the Fathers wrath and yet Christ suffereth for the Prisoner to be brought forth by the blood of the Covenant which prisoner we shall finde by their sayings afterward to be Christ too and what need of the owning him as so suffering if it be not the knowledge of him to Salvation but as he was before the World was when he suffered not They that consult with their Books may see but canting in all this for if we may believe what is printed as their Answer to the Cambridge Queries they justified Richard Hubberthorns saying that Christs coming in the flesh was but a figure which since I writ the former expressions I see not disowned but justified by G. W. in his answer to them with one or two filly frivolous pleas as how could Christ else be said to have been transfigured And did not he namely the Scholer he answers never read that Christ is the figure his Fathers substance c Which may serve to cheat silly men and women but if Christs coming was but a figure then not the true Pacifier of Gods wrath nor reconciliation of the World they also falsifie our saying in the last clause recited for it was not as they repeat it but thus however in the foresaid expression they make nothing of his being born suffering c. Those words in the foresaid expression are subtilly left out the better to hide their deceit in faulting us from those that have not their Books to compare their sayings with and we appeal to all whether if the knowing him after the Spirit as he was before the World was be the knowledge of him to Eternal Salvation they therein make anything to purpose of all his dying and suffering in the flesh Seeing those things were not done or suffered by him in the Spirit as he was before the World was W. and F. p. 13. They charge us with belying Geo. Whitehead in saying he alleadged 2 Cor. 5. 16. To prove that the Apostles did not know Christ as one that suffered in the flesh or to be in the flesh but it was brought they say against our knowledge which is Carnal and stands in Immagination and neither truly know Christ as he was in the flesh nor after the Spirit but contend against the knowing him as he was before
the World was Reply That we did not bely G. W. but they us the repeating those things that passed will evidence we urged that Ed. Burroughs foresaid passage confest not Christ come in the flesh and G. W. to justifie his saying alleadged that the Apostles thenceforth knew Christ no more after the flesh which to what purpose could it be if not to insinuate that to know him after the Spirit is to know him as he was before the World was and to know him otherwise viz. as one that since the World came and suffered in the flesh for men is to know him after the flesh Why else was he beaten from it and waved it upon our clearing it that it was the Apostles knowing him as one that dyed for all that led him to let go that knowledge of him after the flesh there denyed by him and therefore that knowing him as one that died was not the knowledge after the flesh Nor were we declaring or speaking about our knowing Christ one way or other when he brought it but against the knowledge they plead for as the knowledge to Salvation false it is therefore that he brought it against our knowledge of him which we matter not his reproaching of who is grievously and notoriously erroneous as hath been seen yea doth not his distinction here in his reproaching our knowing Christ as he was in the flesh or after the Spirit plainly imply that the knowing Christ as he was in the flesh is not with them the knowing him after the Spirit so that the knowing him after the Spirit is not the knowing him as come in the flesh contrary to 1 John 4. 2. by which they are discovered to be Antichristians if they judge them the same why do they distinguish and divide them It plainly implyes that the Spirit after which they know him doth not teach them to know him as he was in the flesh yea its plain too that by that phrase of knowing him after the Spirit in E. â—s Book is meant a distinct knowledge from the knowing him as come in the flesh and so makes that empty and lifeless seeing here they distinguish them as different so that their own words condemn them to them that are intelligent And whereas they say we contend against knowing him as he was before the World was and neglect Christ and so against the knowledge of the Glory of God as a knowledge to Salvation Herein also are they false for it is not against the knowledge of Christ as before the world was that we contend but against their making that knowledge the knowledge of him to Salvation nor said we we do neglect Christ though who can so worthily prize and serve him as in nothing to be guilty of the neglect of him We shall God inabling be more industrious to mind him manage his truth against these mens errors then we have formerly been much lesse is there either truth or knowledge but Ignorance and Confusion in their making the knowledge of Christ as before the World was the knowledge of the Glory of God for the Glory of God is his great goodnesse manifested and brightly shining forth in Christ sent forth and crucified for us Exod. 33. 18. 2 Cor. 4. 4. 6. It is the light of the knowledge of the Glory of God that is in the Face of Jesus Christ as represented in the Gospel which preaches him crucified And so that Glory could not be known as he was before the World was for God was manifested in the flesh and not as before and without the flesh or respect to it so as to our Salvation Besides there is fallacy in saying the Spirit and Power in which the Apostles knew Christ and one another was before the World was for its one thing to say the Spirit and Power was before the World was and the object now manifested as now manifested by that Spirit and Power the knowledge whereof is to Salvation is Christ as he was before the world was and not as he was made flesh since the world Having made good these our charges of them we shall be briefer in the rest P. 13. Our distinction of the condition of the Nature of man as it is in the believer from what it is in Christ they charge with making it in the believers to be seperate from Christ To which we say we believe and say with the Apostle that the believer while in the body is absent from Christ but not seperate Yet we say his nature as in him is distinct from it as in Christ because in the believer its subject to infirmity and bodily Death in Christ it is not they deny the sinfulnesse of Nature commonly called Original sin contrary to Psal 51. 5. Job 14. 4. Rom. 5. 12. 18 19. And say that to make the believer to have two Heritages a Natural and a Spiritual is an old delusion of the Priests it seems then believers have no such Heritage as bodily weaknesse or Death or if they have it it s a Spiritual and not a Natural Heritage to them is it But we believe and so do all that know anything that the believer by Nature and after the Flesh as a man inherits one thing and after the Spirit as a believer another After the flesh and by Nature the Image of the Earthly and after the Spirit the Image of the Heavenly was not Paul one of the Priests that here they reproach for he taught such a distinction in 1 Cor. 15. 44. 46. 49. There is a Natural Body and there is a Spiritual Body is the believer heir to both by Nature or to neither of them Naturally Let them answer directly if they reproach that distinction which holds also in sin and Righteousnesse if the Priest Paul may be believed Rom. 7. 24. 25. For in his flesh he found the law of sin and had sin dwelling we suppose that was no Spiritual heritage and in his mind the Law of God we suppose that was not Natural and do not these men imply the same they condemn in saying the Believers witnesse a better Heritage then sin in their Nature Do they not imply that they witnesse that too though a better besides However may not believers witnesse that and yet witnesse also a better then that as Paul did Paul said in him in his flesh dwelt no good thing whence had he that Heritage and yet in his minde was the Law of God was not that a better Heritage W. and F. p. 14. To our charging them with denying the humanity of Christ they say changing our phrase They never denyed the Man Christ Reply If they deny him now to be a man and to have a humane Body then they deny his humanity which was it we charged them with and that they deny his having an humane body or any other then his Church is evident by what they said page 8. besides the Body his Church they grant him to have nothing more of man then he
not have done had he in no sense or in no good sense known God Thirdly Nor doth God at all reprove Elihu as speaking a misse in any thing of him as he did Job and his other friends So that the matter was not material onely it showed that I was forgetful and are not these men so too Or are they more then men Sure they would be thought so and not to be of them of whom James sayes my Brethren be not many masters that is be not censorious and harsh lording it over men as if you were without Spot or failing knowing we shall receive the greater condemnation for in many things we offend all the people must conceive that all they write and say is by infallible inspiration To this purpose was it that George Fox happening to come by a letter I writ in answer to G. W. in vvhich being the first draught of it upon some revievv finding some things spoken to in the substance of them in two or three places as I was occasioned by diverse passages of like import in G. Ws. Letter I had blotted out in one place 2. or 3. lines as sufficiently spoken to in another place and instead thereof write some other things that came to my mind that I judged meet now G. Fox finding this writes in the margin of my letter this or the like question whether what I had first written and blotted out I was led to write by the Spirit of God c. and yet in Geo. Ws. Letter there were many blottings out of words as for Ministry of sin which he had writ he blotted it out and writ sinful Ministry and in one place interlined a whole line are not these right Pharisees and Hypocrites that will fault failings of Memory and such corrections of mistakes as passe in us and therein glory and pretend to others as if all they writ and spake was by the Spirit and yet wherein they glory they are found even as we as is said by Paul of the false Apostles 2 Cor. 8. 11. As for God speaking against Eliphaz as not speaking of him the thing that was right as Job did it was after Job had humbled himself and confest his fault and God had forgiven him for before God faulted him also as not speaking rightly of him See else Job 38. 1. 2. and 40. 2. Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him he that reproveth God let him answer it sure he that reproveth God doth not speak right of him So ver 8. wilt thou disannual my judgement and condemn me that thou mightest be righteous But again doth it follow that because Eliphaz spake not rightly of God in some things therefore he speak not right of the Angels or nothing at all right of God Is not this a right thing that he said of God that he doth great things and unsearchable marvilous things and without number and that he gives rain upon the Earth c. Job 5. 8. 9. Beside that what Eliphaz said of the Angels as charged with folly is related by Eliphaz rather as a thing revealed to him and said to him in a vision by a Spirit then as any saying of his own see else Job 4. 13. 14. 15 16 17 18. But would ye know why G. W. made this exception against my quoting of Eliphas his words it was because I said it was the good Angels way to abase themselves in Gods presence and not to proclaim themselves holy but God as not judging themselves pure in comparison of him whereas the evil Angels use to proclaime themselves as Gods and desire to be worshipped and because I compared the Quakers practice to that of the evil Angels and not of the good therefore George would put that off by saying those were Eliphaz his words that spake not aright of God but I mentioned also Isa 6. 2. 3. 4. which he fairly past over with silence thinking his exception against that in Job 4. and 15. was enough to blind his seduced Disciples eyes that they would never minde what Isaiah said as for my belying the Servants of the Lord as he falsely calls the Quakers in my Book and false Letters sent abroad into the Country as he charges me thou mayest judge of the truth of that Reader by the truth or falshood of these Quakers in all hitherto discovered it s no discredit to be called a lyar and deceiver by lyars and deceivers they say I have often belyed them and they could produce them t is well they do not produce them though but onely say what they can do thinking you will call them Masters therein and take it for a truth upon their bare say so But can you think their charity such to me as to have mentioned no one thing I have belyed them in if they had many to produce What they say about our probable Arguments on both sides about the reuniting of the blood of Christ with the body in his Resurrection needs no answering The impartial Reader of our Book may observe that there is onely mentioned what might be alleadged on either part of the question without any determinations and so that they say falsly that we guessed it either way that a School-boy could have given as good an answer as we gave above against which they are able here to except nothing save to dissemble it that we gave not that answer then is not very credible but if so it seems these Prophets could have given no better neither for they fault us not they say for not asserting it in the Body of Christ their revilings and reproaches we pass over in silence onely whereas amongst those probable arguments we said about that in 1 Cor. 15. So Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God that in the changed state what was blood before might be changed into Pure Life and Spirit the thing or substance remaining though not in the same form of Blood which yet we conclude not but lest to the judgement of the able in the Church They say This is a meer dreame and one of J. Hs. divinations and contradicts Moors words for he said that the Life of Christ is not in his blood We Reply That it is a dream or divination of J. Hs. cannot be because it s not his assertion that it is so but so it may be for ought they or I can shew to the contrary nor contradicts T. Ms. words for if it be changed into pure spirit and life yet not in the form of blood which last words they crastily left out the better to deceive the simple and make it seem a contradiction then is not his life by that supposition in his blood in the sence he spake it in that is the life of his glorified body is in not in the Blood if it be not Blood but pure life and spirits so as to be nourished by the supply of blood as the natural body is the Scripture they allude to speaks of the mortal
baffled them as there it appears had the Book out of which it is quoted If it be not so as he sets it down let the fault lie at his door For J. H. never see the Book though he sent for it that he might have seen it he might be too rash in taking it upon trust not fathering it upon him whence he had it in that he confesses himself faulty and craves forgivenesse yet it appears that they were not herein led by an infallible Spirit for then they would have known J. H. was guilty only of overcredulousnesse not of impudent lying he would be loath wilfully to bely the Devil much lesse any man though his instruments VVhat follows in p. 21 22. sufficiently speaks out their deceitful way to the intimate denying of Christ come in the flesh as the Apostles preached him to them that can understand truth from deceit VVhile they justified James Naylors deceitfull and erroneous sayings alleadged by us out of his Book called Love to the lost never taking notice of or giving any answer to what was said in our Book to confute them Reader I pray minde it James Naylor in the Book aforesaid as I Jo. Horn testifie by my own sight of it treating of Redemption says few know the subject of it the seed to which the promise viz. of Redemption is made but sayes it is a certain seed or principle in men groaning for liberty from sin c. Now here G. W. and the rest say that seed of God is Christ and wherever he is known in such a low measure as a seed that suffers and is burthened in man by corruption there he desires to be free from the burthen of sin and alwayes to do his Fathers will Now mind what the Apostles say they say Christ is the Redeemer and Redemption but never that he himselfe is the thing to be redeemed as these say he is the Redeemer saith Isaiah shall come to Zion Isa 59. 20. And Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the Law being made a curse for us c. saith Paul but they never say Christ himself is to be redeemed or that he is burthened in men by corruption and it hath power over him to binder him from doing his Fathers will alwayes as he desires to do And so makes him a sinner contrary to 1 John 3. 5. but on the contrary Death hath no more dominion over him and so by consequence not sin for if it had Death would it being the wages of sin Well but see yet further their corrupt mystical stuffâ— the mystery of Iniquity that is in them They say And this seed the power reaches to where it is begotten and in the power it arises in them that believe in the Light for their Redemption Reply Was there ever such confused stuffe heard of One while it is the seed which is Christ that is burthened in man by corruption that is to be redeemed and another while its the believer in the Light for the Redemption so that both Christ and the believer are to be Redeemed But who must redeem the Seed which is Christ That 's but darkly and confusedly hinted Babel like The power sure that reaches to the seed but what is that Is it Christ Then Christ redeems Christ is it the Spirit Then the Spirit redeems Christ where he is begotten So that here is Christ begotten and Christ suffering and burthened with sin to be redeemed by the Power or Spirit and all in them that believe in the light for Redemption but what is that light they believe in Sure that must be Christ too unlesse it be somthing from him lesse then Christ but how should a Believer believe in a Christ for redemption that wants it himselfe and is the subject of it The Apostles preached a raised Christ for men to believe in These men a suffering and burthened Christ that wants Redemption himselfe And is not here too Christ and corruption both in the believer are they both Natural or both Spiritual heritages think we But in them that believe in the Light it rises say they in the Power c. and this is Christs dying in men for their sins and rising in them for their justification that believe in him that 's dying and rising in them for redemption in their Language rare Mysteries of confusion confounding the Spirit of man with Christ and putting it for him The Apostles preacht Christ dead and raised for all never that he is yet dying and rising for and in some But They say The Apostle travelled again for the Galathians till Christ was formed in them who first is known as one without form or comlinesse Reply That the Apostle traviled again in birth of the Galathians till Christ was formed in them is true But even as the Galathians were not personally and carnally in Paul though he traveled again in birth of them but onely in his love and affection So neither are we so carnally and fantastically to conceive of Christs forming in them as if he was a seed or principle to be begotten and redeemed in them and suffering and burthened in them and to be brought forth into form in them personally but onely the knowledge and faith of him was to be brought forth or formed in their hearts 2. Nor is it true but very false that Christ is first known as one without form or comlinesse but rather while he is so apprehended he is not known its mens ignorance unbelief and wrong thoughts of him makes them see no beauty in him Isaiah speaking of the Jews and in their person as one of that body and prophecying of the mean appearance of Christ in the flesh signifies how he should through Ignorance and unbelief be rejected by them and they should see no form or comelinesse in him wherefore they should desire him as the verses following also shew not that any knowing him first know him so They proceed thus And so the seed of God suffers in some and in others it reigns and is known to be Prince of Peace Reply Here is their sence of Christs death and Resurrection Christs dying and rising in men and this is the word that they say is in every man before outward Preaching The word of Faith nigh in the heart and in the mouth but what need Preachers be sent then to preach this or who be the Preachers sent of God in men to declare it without whose being sent of God they could not Preach it and without whose preaching men could not hear and believe Yea in this Mysterious and Babylonish stuffe here is Christ forming suffering and rising at once Suffering in some and rising in others and so the Apostles doctrine is turned up by the roots as not grounded in Christs appearing in men Where he says Nor yet that he Christ should offer himself often as the High Priest entereth into the holy Place every year with blood of others for then must he often have suffered since
stand by themselves and say God I thank thee I am not as other men are I am not as this Publican c. The Hypocrites use not to be sencible of and own their sins but rather boast themselves to be holy as if they had no sin Search the Scriptures and see if the Scribes and Pharisees Hypocrites or the true Apostles and Prophets rather use to confesse their sins and take shame to themselves for them You may finde David Solomon Isaiah Jeremiah Daniel Paul James John c. but never the Scribes and Pharisees so doing let all see whether they or we be in the steps of the Hypocrites then do they walk directly in them lifting up themselves as if they had no sins to confesse when indeed they be most deceitfull and abominable Hypocrites in the inside of their Doctrine turning the Truth of God into a lie But 3. What would they have done had they lived with the true Apostles and Prophets from whom they distinguished themselves above Would they not have fallen fowlly upon them and reproached them as they do us Had they heard Davids saying innumerable evils have compassed me about mine iniquities have taken such hold upon me that I am not able to look up they are more then the hairs of my head therefore my heart faileth me Would they not have called him Hypocrite for faulting his enemies and persecutors as evil doers and yet he himselfe so burthened with iniquity Had they heard Isaiah say we grope for the wall like the blinde we grope as if we had no eyes we stumble at noon day as in the night c. Isa 59. 12 13 14. for our transgressions are multiplyed before thee our sins testifie against us for our transgressions are with us and as for our iniquities we know them in transgressing and lying against the Lord and departing away from our God speaking oppression and revolt c. Would they not have said Oh thou Hypocrite hast thou been crying out against us as blind and bruitish and such as have no understanding and dost thou grope like a blinde man and as if thou hadst no eyes people had need take heed of thee least thou lead them blind-fold into the ditch Do you lie and transgresse and speak words of ravolt from God Should we or any of us then take heed to you Consider your own conditions c. Do not those words speake as high as neglect of Christ and abuse of his Truth Revolt from him signifies more then simply neglect of him and how would these have reproached him had they heard him say we are all as an unclean thing and all our Righteousnesses are as filthy rage c. Isa 64. 6. Would they not have cryed out upon him unclean wretch and bid him leave preaching and told the people they had need to take heed of following such an unclean wretch Had they lived in Agurs dayes and heard or seen him publish his prophecy with Jehiel c. and how he begins with this confession Surely I am more bruitish then man and have not the understanding of a man I neither learned wisdom nor have the knowledge of the Holy Would not such proud Pharisees as these have cryed out upon him for a beast what should he be heard for And warned people not to take heed to his sayings seeing he confesses he hath not the knowledge of the holy Prov. 30. 2 3. The like I might observe of Ezra and Nehemiah Job confessing their sins and Daniel that they had done wickedly rebelled by departing from Gods precepts judgments Daniel says expresly that he confessed his sins as well as the sins of his people Dan. 9. 20. Yea and this too after they were holy men and Prophets and born of God as was made good lately against G. W. at our later dispute with him he not being able to maintaine the contrary What would they have said had they lived when Paul that wrote against the Antichristians that made a fair shew in the flesh and gloried in appearance comes out with an acknowledgement that he was a chief of sinners and lesse then the least of all Saints Eph. 3. 8. Would they not have concluded him to be an Hypocrite to give out himself to be an Apostle and Preacher of Christ and yet not so much as the least Saint Would they not have concluded him then one of the World and so led by a worldly deceitful spirit not to be believed and followed Reader judge indifferently between us if they in thus reproaching us for joyning our selves with the people and confessing our selves faulty in that we have too much neglected Christ and abused his Truth not so contended for Christ against these deceivers and false prophets as we should nor so used and walked in his Truth as we ought and are not like the Pharisees that pretend themselves perfect and to have no sins to own and confesse Judge whether of us tread more in the steps of the Prophets and Apostles who said if we confess our sins he is faithfull and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness Judge whether of us have the beame in our eye to hinder us from seeing we that pull it out by owning and confessing our evils with the evils of the people or they that hide their wickednesses and justifie themselves as no sinners though guilty of such horrid damnable deceits as we have herein in them discovered They bid give over our Teaching of others Reply Ay that 's the thing they would have that 's it grieves them that the sheep should not be left to the Wolves that they might devour them but is that wholesome Counsel and the way for us to do better we confess we have too much neglected Christ and they would have us neglect him more let him look to his own affairs c. We confess we have been guilty with the Nation in the abuses of truth and they would have us abuse it worse by suppressing it that God might take it from us and give us up to their delusions Nay nay that 's not the way to do well that 's counsel from the Devil Did not the holy men above mentioned condemn and reprove the false Prophets and enemies of the Truth of Christ in their several ages because they confest themselves guilty of such evils bruitishness iniquities no whit below our expressions See what Agur sayes notwithstanding his foresaid confession Prov. 30. 12 13. There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes are not these Quakers such and yet are not washed from their filthiness There is a Generation Oh how losty are their eyes and their eye-lids are lifted up Are not the Generation of the Quakers such haughty and proud boasters Did not David Isaiah Jeremiah Paul John c. Preach against and reprove the false Prophets hypocrites and Antichrists of their times too though they confest sins in themselves Should they not have done thus
in the flesh or natural Body in its mortal state are absent from the Lord as is shewed in the Answer to their first Queries nor are they meet so to enter for flesh and blood man in his present mortal and unchanged state cannot inherit the Kingdom of God neither doth corruption inherit incorruption and they are yet dead though Christ be in them and the spirit made alive in a first fruits because of Righteousnesse yet the body is dead because of sin and so even they that have the first fruits of the spirit are yet waiting for the adoption that is the Redemption of the Body for their life is yet hid with Christ in God when Christ who is their life shall appear then shall they also appear with him in glory having their vile bodies fashioned into the likenesse of his Glorious Body 2 Cor. 3. 6 7 8. Phil. 1. 23 24 and 3. 21. Rom. 8. 10. 23. with Col. 3. 1. 3 4. 1 Cor. 15. 50. 53. W. F. 3. Querie Whether did the body of flesh and bones wherein Christ suffered descend from Heaven into the lower parts of the earth yea or nay seeing no man hath ascended up to Heaven but the Son of man which came down from Heaven and it is the same that descended into the lower parts of the earth that ascended far above all heavens that he might fill all things Ephes 4. 9 10. Psal 68. 18. Answ In this Querie is first an intimate acknowledgement though it may seem in a deriding way of Christs suffering in a Body of flesh and bones But the intention of this Querie with the following is to deny and reproach the acknowledgement of the Resurrection of Christ and his ascention into Heaven in that very body in which he suffered dyed and was buried in the denyal of which his personal Cross of sufferings is made of none effect The Apostles Preaching rendred vain and false and faith in him of no effect yea the general Resurrection of the dead is also herein denyed 1 Cor. 15. 13. 19. c. And to this purpose there is an Argument contained in this Querie by which they would inforce the denial of the foresaid acknowledgement of the Resurrection and Ascention of Jesus the Lord in that body of his flesh in which he suffered viz. That that body in which he suffered in the flesh did not descend from Heaven into the lower parts of the earth and therefore neither is that ascended up to Heaven seeing no man hath ascended up to Heaven but he that came down from Heaven c. So that here is more then a Querie even an Argument from their intimate and implyed denial of the descension of that body to inforce the denial of his ascention the corruption and foolishnesse of which we shall shew in our answer to the Querie to which we say 1. The Scriptures they mention give this plain answer That he even the Son of man came down from Heaven and descended into the lower parts of the earth which we believing do therefore confess as the Scripture hath said for although that his personal Body in which he was made man and became the son of man was actually prepared for him or the preparation of it was made in the earth according to that prophetical speaking of it long before in which by a word in the time past first another expression in the time to come following it is signified to be then vertually but not actually done the Lord hath created a new thing in the earth a woman shall compass a man Jer. 31. 22. for he was made flesh of a woman John 1. 14. Rom. 1. 3. Gal. 4 4 and therein curiously framed in the lower parts of the earth Psal 139 15. And so as to the matter of his Body as of the Seed of David it was not before materially existent in Heaven otherwise then in the Counsel of God decreeing and fore ordaining it and power effecting it and word made flesh in it yet the Son of man is truly said to come down from Heaven to have come forth from the Father Because that Eternal Word the only begotten Son of God that was made flesh in that one body prepared for him and is now become the Son of man He came down from Heaven for the Word was in being before he was made flesh he was in the beginning with God John 1. 1 2. And that word not only took or entered into flesh but was made flesh verse 14. So as the Word that was in the beginning and the flesh which in due time he was made and so is not now in making is one person one Son who is both the Son of God and the Son of man yea the two natures that of God and that of man though distinct and not confounded are united in one person so as what is said of either nature may though not in respect of the nature yet in respect of person be said of both As for instance In respect of the nature of man and as man and as pertaining to the flesh which he was made he dyed 1 Pet 2. 24. and 3. 18. and 4. 1. not is dying or suffering in that personal Body of his Rev. 1. 18. yet in respect of the person and because of the union of the two natures in one person his sufferings or blood is truly called Gods own Blood Acts 20. 28. and so it s said God laid down his life for us 1 John 3. 16. so in this businesse the Son of man came down from Heaven in as much as he that person that is the Son of man the Eternal Word and onely begotten Son of God that was made flesh he descended and came forth from the Father and came down from Heaven Yea also when he was on earth in his Body and not as then in that respect ascended yet then when he as God the Son of God the word that was made flesh in Heaven with the Father yea likewise in the vertue and preciousnesse of his being the Son of man and what he had undertaken to do in that Body on the Earth John 3. 13. with chap. 6. 62. and 20. 17. had these men known and believed that very Jesus of Nazareth of the Seed of David Abraham c. after the Flesh to be indeed the Lord from Heaven God blessed for ever and yet also true and very man both in one person and so Emmanuel God with us or in our nature for us they would not have made this querie 2. But for further answer we add That the Scriptures alleadged by them give no ground for their Querie whither that body did descend from Heaven because they spake not in such phrase or manner of speech as might be limitted to one of the natures onely for he saith not simply it or the same thing that descended as they would insinuate but he or that person that descended he is the same that ascended up and the person that descended
as in beaven for there he appears in the presence of God personally in that his own body the body of his flesh in which he bore our sins on the tree not so in with or among them now but by his Spirit which he calls another Comforter as distinguished from his own person John 14. 16. 18. 26. They see him not as the Apostles and first witnesses Acts 1. 3. 1 Cor. 15. 5. 8. John 20. 29. 1 Pet. 1. 8. But in the evidence and demonstration of the Spirit through their Doctrine They have him not with them as or in such a sence as they have the poor with them viz. in bodily presence Yea they are absent from him while at home in the body even in a like sence as aforesaid as at home in the body 2. Nor is he gone up into or received in Angels and so set on the Right hand of Power in them but passed and gone into Heaven far above all Principallity and Power Angels and Authorities being made subject to him Nor can Heaven in such places as forementioned mean any State of Glory or Dignity as distinct from the place where he possesseth it for it is said he shall descend or come down from heaven where he is now received till the restitution of all things 1 Thes 4. 16. Phil. 3. 21. Acts 3. 20. 21. But in respect of state of Glory he shall not descend he shall never more lay aside any of that Glory or Dignity he now possesseth for us or be abased or humbled for us as before But shall still sit on the Right hand of Power which expresseth the state of Glory and dignity he now possesseth for us which he shall still possess even when he comes down from heaven and appears personally on the Earth the second time Mat. 26. 64. Yea the words in the Heavens do plainly express the place where he now possesseth his Glory in the man as distinguished from the Glory he there possesseth with the Father which is expressed in other expressions distinct as his being set on the Right hand of God on the right hand of Power on the right hand of the Throne of the Majesty in which he is now exalted and glorified in the man and that in the heavens or heaven it self as Heb. 8. 1. 1 Pet. 3. 22. And so in all such Scriptures as before by heaven and so by the heaven or heavens whether he is gone up and where he is received and possessed of that Infinite Glory in the body of his flesh for us is evidently meant according to the most direct and proper sence of the word the place or places on high where he is so received and appeares in the presence of God for us And to this we gave these demonstrations in our discourse in their hearing to which they have answered nothing 1. It is called Heaven it self Heb. 9. 24. To distinguish it from heaven after any figurative Typical or other sence of the word 2. He is said to be ascended up thither passed and gone into Heaven yea received and taken up Eph. 4. 10. Heb. 4. 14. 1 Pet. 3. 22. Mark 16. 19. Acts 1. 2. 9 all which expressions plainly import a place or places above whither he is so taken up Yea 3. It is likewise said that in being so taken or carried up he was parted from them Luke 24 51. And after that was no more so with them in the World John 17. 11. 12 13. Mat. 26. 11. 4. The Heaven into which he was taken up from his Disciples was the same or Heaven in the same sence as of which it is said the Apostles and disciples stood stedfastly looking towards it as he went up Acts 1. 9 10 11. 5. The same from whence he shall descend or come again in like manner as those chosen witnesses saw him go when he comes to restore all things in their individuals Acts 1. 11. and 3. 20 21. Phil. 3. 20 21. 1 Thes 4. 16. And that cannot be his Church for he shall not then go from them but come to them nor his Glory he now possesseth as before said for he shall not come from that but in it even in the Glory of his Father and with his Holy Angels But is evident to be onely the place or places on high where he now possesseth that Glory for us from whence he shall descend or come down againe still sitting on the Right hand of Power 6. It s that Heaven or heaven in such a sence as it is properly opposed to the Earth where and on which the former Priests served yea it is expresly said If he were on Earth he were not a Priest such a one as becomes us to have Heb. 8. 1. 3 4. and 4. 14. with Chapter 7. 26. In which its plain that he is not on Earth in his personall and bodily presence as he is in Heaven as opposed to the Earth And the necessity of his going away thither and being received and appearing there in the presence of God for us and of what usefulness it is to us and of what concernment the holding fast the acknowledgment of it is such as know the Grace of God in Truth do know something may be seen of it in Tho. Moor junior his Antidote pag. 41 42. and 43. And in his instruction to the living pages 39. 51. And they that deny it do deny Jesus to be the great high Priest yea they deny his being already come in the flesh so as that the works given him to do on the Earth in that his own body for the expiation of sin are finished as John 17. 4 5. with Heb. 1. 3. and 7. 26 27. and 9. 24 26. And so in sum deny Jesus to be the Christ and therein shew themselves lyars Deceivers Antichrists and are therefore and as such to be turned away from and held accursed by us 7. Que. Can a body of Flesh and Bones be both in the Heavens and far above them all and fill all things at one and the same time Yea or nay Answ Nay but the man Christ Jesus in that body of his flesh in which he bore our sins on the tree and hath flesh and bones now raised and gloryfied with the Fathers own self being ascended on high and set down on the Right hand of Majesty in the Heavens and so being with the Father and in his Name God over all blessed for ever He may from thence and in that Name Power and Glory fill all things and fulfill all things too as that Text also may be read in his time and according to his Word And the Text saith not that his body fills or might fill all things but he for whom God prepared that body and who in that body is ascended up far above all Heavens and is not now on the Earth in his Glorious personal Bodily presence nor saith it that he doth fill all things but he is ascended that he might fill or fulfill all things The
partaker for a time that he might die for us That through Death he might destroy him that had the power of Death c. 3. To their parenchesis or a humane body we further say Doth the Light in them tell them that carnal and a body of Flesh and Bones and a humane body is alwayes one and the same Let us see if it be not darknesse Humane is alwayes used for the Nature or kind of man as Gods Creature as distinguished from other kinds of Creatures And so a humane body is the body of a man one that is verily a man whether sinful and mortal or not so either the one or the other And so the Body of Adam in his Innocency was humane the body of a man he was verily man yet sinless and so not subject to or in a state of Death though capable of becoming Immortal or mortal but when by sinning he fell from God then he became sinfult and mortal And such are all that by natural propagation come from him as of and from him while in this body not changed by Death yet still humane the nature or kinde remains though degenerated and corrupt God made man upright and t is man still that hath sought out inventions and is become carnal sold under sin Ecles 7. 21. with Gen. 5. 1. 2. and Chap. 8. 21. But the second Adam our Lord Jesus Christ is not a carnal but Spiritual man even from the first of his being made man for though his Body prepared for and taken by him when the word was made flesh was humane of mankinde and so he was a very man Yet he came not by propagation from Adam but though made of a woman of the seed of Abraham and so of Adam of whom Abraham was yet it was in a supernatural way a work of new Creation by the operation of the holy Ghost in the womb of a Virgin that had not known man and was holy being anointed of God with the Holy Ghost and power even in and from his conception and Birth And so that holy thing even before born of her and when born and alwayes without sin yet not Immortal but for a time partakers of Flesh and Blood as the Natural Children of Adam and because therein he was made subject to our infirmities that came on us naturally or as a natural heritage from Adam by reason of sin yet without sin he was said to be made in the likeness of sinful Flesh and his body might be said in some sence to be made a natural body as being partakers with us of Flesh and Blood and so mortal though not in every sence or in a full sence as the naturall Children of Adam are Yet to esteem him sinful Flesh or his body a carnal Body even then when he was on Earth partakers of Flesh and Blood and suffered in the Flesh we account blasphemie much more to esteem his raised and Glorified body in Heaven a carnal body For in his Resurrection form the dead all that weakness and mortality of the Flesh that came on the Nature of man by the first Adams sin and fall which he for a time was subject to in being partakers with us of Flesh Blood it was put off from him that he should no more return to it And so his body is become in a full and Glorious sence Spiritual Gloriously filled with the Spirit of Life and Power yea Immortal a Glorious body he being therein glorified with the Fathers own self and all by vertue of that his once suffering for our sins in the Fâ—esh in which he shed his blood and therein powered out his Soul unto Death laying down his Natural Mortal and Adam-like Life in the Flesh that he might take it again in the Spirit and Glory of the Father by which he was quickened raised from the dead now no more to return to corruption Yet still this raised and Glorious body is humane the body of a man even the man Christ Jesus having Flesh and bones hands and feet which by way of distinction from others and eminency above them is called his flâ—sh and his bones And had these men believed either the great Mystery as now revealed that God was manifested in the flesh in the words being made flesh and dwelling amongst men or the Resurrection of the body of Christ that dyed they would neither have cavelled at the denying his body to be carnal as if it could not stand with the acknowledgement of this man continuing for ever nor have spoken so contemptuously of the Glorious body of Christ And so neither would they have added this following query Is not a fleshly body Carnal To which we further Answer 1. Fleshly and carnal do not alwayes signify the same thing in Scripture for we read of a heart of flesh and fleshly Tables of the Heart Ezek. 36. 26. 2 Cor. 3. 3. whereby fleshly cannot be meant carnal but tender and fit to receive his impression or writing as opposed to a stony hard or carnal heart And though sometimes such expressions as to be flesh or fleshly named after it may be used to signify the weakness and brittleness of the outward man or a helpless withering worthlesse and decaying state which may stand with carnality in Scripture sence though distinct from it because all flesh in its present state is as Grass and the goodlinesse thereof as the flower of the Field fading and withering but the word of the Lord that was made flesh who is the spiritual and heavenly man and he abides for ever Yea though also sometimes a fleshly Mind and fleshly Lusts are equivalent with carnal mindedness and lusts as Rom. 8. 5. to 8. Col. 2. 18. 1 Pet. 2. 11 Yet 2. To have flesh and to be fleshly or named after it is two things whether we take flesh as signifying the outward man or body of man that hath flesh and bones and that whether as natural from Adam or as raised from the dead for there is a natural body and there is a spiritual body and both have flesh though not of or in the same quality or if we take flesh as Signifying the natural Sinfulness or carnal mind as the word is used for both yet to have flesh in either sence and to be fleshly or named after the flesh are not the same nor alwayes meeting in the same person The Apostles did live and walk in the flesh or natural body yet did not war after the flesh nor was fleshly or carnal in their knowings speakings or actings 2 Cor. 10. 3 4. with chap. 1 12 13 and 5. 16. Gal 2 20. with Phil. 1 2â— 24. and yet also they had flesh in the last sence even natural sinfulnesse and carnality still dwelling in them in their flesh members or outward man as from Adam though they were not reckoned after it nor did walk in or after it but did mind and walk in and after the spirit and so were not carnal but Spiritual
crucified nailed to the Cross and pierced with a Spear as himself then did expresly demonstrate to Thomas see vers 27. This revealed we believe to be true because spoken by the Truth of God that cannot lie But where or how he came in further then revealed in his Testimony already given we desire not to be wise in knowing or carnal in seeking sensually to immagine for secret things belong to the Lord our God but things revealed unto us c. Deut. 29. 29. To the last we say None of us have said as is related nor matters it what hath been said concerning some of our way that 's not the onely falshood that hath been forged concerning us by some of their way They might have heard such imaginations and inquisitions reproved by us as too sensual in seeking to bring down the great things in the Revelation of the Mysterie of God manifested in the flesh to the sensual mind or comprehension and favouring of pride and vanity of mind in desiring to be wise above what is written and so we still look upon them and therefore own no such thing But believing the Scriptures and the great power of God and that the Body of the Lord Jesus risen from the dead is Glorified with the Fathers own self we know he could come in where how he pleased whether there was any such way for him or no and needed no passage to be opened or made or for him Yea further also we are assured that even the Children of the first Resurrection when they shall attain to that Resurrection of the dead and have their bodies that now are vile fashioned into the likeness of his Glorious Body they in those very bodies bâ—ing Spiritual Immortal Powerful Incorruptible shall be equal to the Angels who cannot be hindred from passage by any corruptible things as Doors Walls or the like but can make their own passage through any such obstacles more easily then mortal bodies through the air And why should it be thought a thing incredible that the Creator of all things should make mans nature partaker of such Glory It is so onely to the sensual and carnally minded who do therefore err not knowing or believing the Scripture and the great Power of God And that these are such appears by this manner of questioning Do they not secretly imply in this question that such a thing could not be done according to the proper and natural sence and import of the words unless some mortal man can tell where or how And do they not therein signifie that they count the plain sence and cleare import of the Evangelists words to be a lye And that either Christ had not a Body having flesh and bones after his Resurrection as himself said or if he had he could not come into the house and be in the midst of them the doors being shut and so by rendering the expressions of the Holy Ghost such as can have no truth in them in their litteral sence and plain import but are rather a cunningly devised fable they would insinuate a necessity of seeking the truth in some fancied moral or Allegorical interpretations of theirs Besides they intimate pride and high thoughts of themselves for sure they would have us think they are so wise above what is written that they can answer their own Querie what lesse can be thought in their thus propounding it to us But till they have answered the Questions put to Job chap. 38. we will not believe them for we know neither they nor any other mortal man can by searching find out the Almighty to perfection Job 11. 7 8. nor yet find out the Work of God from the beginning to the end Eccles 3. 11. no not the Works of God done under the Sun Ecles 8. 17. He is no true believer on God that will believe no more of his Works then he can tell how where and in what manner they were done and he is foolish and proud that conceives himself able to demonstrate to reason every such thing in every Work of God Quest 11. Whether the same Christ who in the dayes of his flesh suffered persecution whose body was subject to hunger and affliction be not made a quickening spirit 1 Cor. 15. 49. and yet his flesh and blood is so nigh to every true believer that his flesh is his meat indeed and his blood is his drink indeed c Answ This Question also may be divided into two parts 1. Whether the same Christ who in the dayes of his flesh suffered c. be not made a quickening spirit 2. The following part is in the form of a proposal yet is signified to be part of their question by the interrogatory point it is thus And yet his flesh and blood is so nigh to every true believer that his flesh is his meat indeed c To the first part VVhether the same Christ c. be not made a quickening Spirit We answer Yea he is or rather to use the expression of the Scripture he was so made for he is not now making or to be made so And further we say We truly believe and propofess without hidden things of dishonesty That it is the same Christ who in the dayes of his flesh suffered c. Now that was the word made flesh and so Christ of the fruit of Davids Loyns after the flesh who had both Spirit and Body and if he were without either now he could not be the Christ much lesse the same Christ yea the Scripture quoted by them 1 Cor. 15. 45. saith That as it was the first man Adam that was made a living Soul so it is the second Adam that was made a quickening Spirit And therefore as the first Adams being made a living Soul hindred not his having a natural body yea it was the man that was made so so neither doth the second Adams being made a quickening Spirit hinder his having a Spiritual and Glorious Body that yet hath flesh and bones yea it s the man Christ Jesus the second Adam Christ of the fruit of Davids loyns after the flesh that was made both Lord and Christ and so a quickening Spirit It is the same Jesus that suffered so in the same body in which he once not onely suffered but suffered for our sins and bore them on the Tree the just for the unjust c. which also is more then they include in their acknowledgement of his Sufferings it is this Jesus who was both dead and buried whom God hath raised up and made both Lord and Christ They would seem to grant that the same Christ who in the dayes of his flesh suffered c. is made a quickening spirit yet privily deny it while they confesse not Jesus to be the same and very Christ that was so made which they do not while they acknowledge him not to be so made in the same body of his flesh in which he once so suffered For the Name Jesus alwayes
signifies Christ as come in the flesh and so takes in that body of his flesh upon the taking whereof that Name was given him as is before noted yea he whom God hath raised from the dead and made both Lord and Christ and so a quickening spirit is said to be Christ of the Seed of David after the flesh Rom. 1. 3 4 with Acts 2. 30. 36. the same that dyed and was buried 1 Cor. 15 3. 4 45. The last Adam as also before is hinted in not confessing which they privily deny what they pretend to grant and their seeming grant is like John VVhiteheads concerning the Resurrection of Christ who at our meeting with him at Gedney pretended to believe that the same Christ that took flesh in a body prepared for him of the Seed of Abraham and David and in that body served and suffered for at a time that the same Christ was raised and glorified with the Fathers own self And yet then would by no means acknowledge though oft intreated and urged to speak plainly to the Question that he was raised and did live again and continue for ever in the same body in which he so served and suffered or that the same body that then once in the last ages suffered and was hung on the Tree was raised again from the dead and is now alive for evermore yea at last he deneyed that the same dead bodies of men that dye in Adam shall be raised and made alive again from the dead that even the same that sleep in the dust of the earth shall come forth of their Graves by Christ and so consequently that Christ is raised for if the dead rise not then is not Christ raised for Jesus Christ was dead and buried as before we have shewed So then their immagination or meaning in this equivocal grant appears to be this That the same Christ that had a body distinct from all other in which in the dayes of his flesh he suffered is now raised ascended and gone out of that body of his flesh into some imaginary spiritual being which in that body of his flesh he could not be made yet that in that his spiritual being he is in the bodies or bodies and souls of divers persons working doing or suffering the same things in them which were typically or as a Pattern suffered and done in that body of his flesh and so they neither confess him already come in the flesh or as having finished that his coming in the flesh or first appearing to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself and so the works the Father gave him to do on the earth in that his once suffering for sin nor do they confesse yea they deny Jesus to be the very Christ who is made a quickening spirit and therefore we have laid down our answer plainly and distinctly that it s not onely the same that had a body and therein once suffered but also that it s he in the same body of his flesh in which he once suffered for sins even the same Jesus whom they crucified slew and hung on a Tree that God hath made the Lord and Christ and so a quickening spirit and have explained and confirmed our answer in the expressions of the Scripture quoted by them that its the last Adam c. of which they take no notice for that fully shews the fulnesse and ungodlinesse of their immagination which therefore we again desire the Reader to mind viz. that that Scripture 1 Cor. 15. 45. speaks of two Adams the first Adam the last Adam so then they were both men and had each the personal body of a man when those things there spoken of were verified in them yea so expresly called vers 47. the first man the second man It was the first man Adam that was made a living Soul and so it is the last Adam the second man that was made a quickening spirit The Lord formed the body of the first Adam of the dust of the earth and then breathed into his nostrils the breath of life Gen. 2. 7. and man became a living Soul the breath of Life did not annihilate the body formed of the dust but enlive and quicken it by possessing it and defusing it self in and through all the parts and members of it so that that breath of Life and the body of the man united the man became a Living Soul it is not said it or the breath of life became so but the man upon Gods breathing in that breath of life he even the first man Adam became a living Soul And had he abode in that uprightnesse and innocency in which he was made he might have lived for ever but as there was then none dead for him to quicken so neither was he fitted for such a work so that when he this first man Adam not keeping his first estate but seeking out inventions sinned and fell from God under the Sentence of and into a state of death and Separation from God and so death passed upon all men and they are all partakers of flesh and blood forasmuch as all have sinned in that offence of one they must all have been shut out and perished for ever in that losse and misery if God had not found out and prepared a second man Adam and made him a quickening Spirit for as by man came death so by man also the abolishing of and resurrection from the dead such was mans condition by reason of sin entered and overspreading the nature and death already passed on him in the Sentence of God that without another man a second Adam in whom Gods Truth might be fulfilled and his Justice satisfied in the punishment of sin death of the sinner and through whose Sufferings by his overcoming death the Righteousnesse of God might appear and shine forth therein we could not have been quickened or made alive Therefore for the recovery of fallen man that he might not be utterly expelled or shut out in the first death and banishment but such Redemption wrought and obtained for him that through the Redeemer he might be saved and that they might be all in due time made alive or raised from the first death to appear before the judgement Seat of their Redeemer therefore God found out and prepared a second Adam and made him a quickening spirit Now this second Adam was even his onely begotten Son the Word that was in the beginning with God and so before the first Adam and he by whom and for whom the first Adam and all things were made that were made the proper Lord and Heir of all things for he onely was able and meet to undertake such a work and to have help laid upon him for us but he was made flesh of a woman and so made man the second Adam in the fulnesse of time once in the end of the World and that by a wonderful work of new Creation by the Grace Gift and Appointment of the Father and by the Operation
of the Holy Ghost as is foreshewed and so was the Lord from Heaven Heavenly even when he was made flesh in that body so prepared for him yet very Man made of the Seed of David after the flesh and therein partaker with us of flesh and blood and so like to natural fallen sinful men from birth to death in all things except sin This second man the last Adam because he so humbled himself in that body prepared for him to that purpose God hath raised from the dead and exalted with his Right hand and Glorified him with his own self in that body in which he bore our sins with the Glory he had with him as his onely begotten Son before the World was and therein actually made him in a full and Glorious sence a quickning Spirit to quicken and raise others as is fore-shew'n So that his being made a quickning Spirit no more Annihilates his risen and Glorified body having flesh and bones from being truly a living Spiritual and personal body then the Breath of Life did Annihilate the first Adams body yea without that body he is not the man Jesus Christ us he is affirmed to be that was so made whereas if he were onely a Spirit without the body of a man the assertion must have been contrariwise thus He that was the last Adam is now the quickening Spirit and not Adam But the Text serves not these mens turn for it saith The first man Adam was made a living Soul the last Adam who is also called the second man ver 47. was made a quickening Spirit Nor was or is there any other man made a quickening Spirit but He in that his own personal body onely the second and last Adam or publick man who being made perfect through sufferings offered up himself once for all through the offering up of which body of Christ we are sanctified Heb. 10. 5. 10. For it pleased the Father that in all things he might have the preheminence that in him all fulnesse should dwell even the fulnesse of the God-head bodily Col. â— 1â— 19. and 2. 9. T is of his fulnesse that his members receive and that of this measure which they here receive from him they have it in earthen vessels and though by what they receive from him and are made in him their spirit is made alive for Righteousnesse sake yet the body is still dead because of sin and so vile while in this Mortal state that is while not changed in the natural bodily Death that in the Resurrection it may be fashioned into the likenesse of his Glorious body John 1. 14. 16. 18. 2 Cor. 4. 7. Rom. 8. 10. 2 Col. 3. 3 4. Phil. 3. 2. The second part further shews their Ignorance and being void of judgement in the things about which they query as also their sensualnesse not having the Spirit 1. Their Ignorance and being void of Judgement appeares in their saying and yet c. Or notwithstanding that he is made a quickening Spirit yet his flesh and blood is so nigh to every true believer that his flesh is his meat indeed c. In this saying and yet they imply that his being made a quickening Spirit renders it more difficult to understand that his flesh should be meat indeed and his blood drink indeed whereas our Saviour when he had affirmed his flesh to be meat indeed and his blood to be drink indeed and some thought it a hard or difficult saying John 6. 55. 60 c That he might demonstrate and make it more easie to their understandings he saith what and if ye shall see the Son of Man ascend up where he was before It is the Spirit that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing the words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are Life in all which he signifies as is more fully opened by the Apostles after his having finished the works the Father gave him to do on the Earth that even the flesh of Christ as in its mortal state and so all his abasement and sufferings for us in the flesh could not have profited us and so not have been bread of life for us if he in the same body of his flesh the Son of Man had not risen from the dead ascended and offered up himself to his Father in and by the Power of the Eternal Spirit according to that 1 Cor. 15. If Christ had not risen from the dead even Jesus Christ of the seed of David after the flesh that was dead and buried we had been yet in our sins and the Preaching of him and Faith in him had been vain But he being in due time by means of his once suffering in the flesh for sins quickened raised from the dead and Glorified by the Power of the Eternall Spirit and so made a quickening Spirit He therefore in that body of his flesh which saw no corruption and so his once suffering in the flesh for sin by means of which he was so Glorified is spiritual meat indeed the Bread of Life and was vertually so before but is now fully made so for us and also manifested so to us by that Spirit that raised him from the dead breathing in and present with the Preaching of his Crosse in which Preaching the preciousnesse of his Crosse is commended in this that he that suffered is raised and Glorified in the same body and now appearing in the presence of God for us by vertue of which it is made in the Preaching of it Bread of Life indeed and so his words declaring him that once suffered in the flesh to be so raised and glorified as aforesaid are Spirit and life as also Rom. 10. 9. These men therefore are of no Judgement concerning the Faith forasmuch as that which our Saviour gives as the Reason why his flesh is meat indeed and his Blood drink indeed namely that God would give him Glory as the fruit of it they imply at least as a thing rendering it more hard to be understood yea secretly they imply it as a reason against the understanding Christs flesh and Christs blood that is meat indeed and drink indeed according to the plain import of his words And so in this implication they signifie not onely as we have noted of them upon the first part of this question that in his being made a quickning Spirit they fancy a nullifying of the real being of that Body of his flesh in which they grant he once suffered but also that by his flesh and his blood which is meat and drink indeed they mean not that flesh once given for the life of the World nor that blood once shed for the Remission of sins or his once suffering in the flesh to the sheding of his blood as also more plainly appears in their next question 2. Their sensuality not having the Spirit appeares at least if we consider their sence of its being nigh in their saying that the flesh and blood of Christ is so nigh to
so with us as we have the Power viz. In bodily presence the Heavens do receive him till the times of restitution of all things and from thence he is in the name of the Father vertually and Spiritually among men as before is shewed And whosoever denyeth this Jesus to be the very Christ is of Antichrist and what do they lesse that confesse him not or do not Preach or lift up the Son of man as already come in the flesh and having finished the works in his own body the Father gave him to do on the Earth and so as being by means thereof glorified in that very body in the highest Heavens with the Father compare 1 John 2. 22. with Chap. 4. 3. and John 3. 14. 16. 1 Tim 3. 16. Heb. 3. 26. But put the Name of Christ upon something that in their immagination is daily coming in the flesh and so appearing and suffering in the flesh for the putting away of sin often from the foundation of the World and is not now in a real personal Glorious body in the Heaven of heavens above the Earth but in the immaginary heaven in them on the Earth and call that their Idol the good Seed the Light and that Jesus that is the Christ as is the scope of this and the former Queries But our Jesus that is the very Christ of God who not often but once in the end of the World hath appeared to put away sin by the Sacrifice of himself is now not on Earth but in Heaven with the Father in his spotlesse and Glorious body appearing in the presence of God for us the great Apostle and high Priest of our profession he is therefore and from thence in the Name of the Father sending forth his Spirit in his Testimony to us and therein Spiritually and powerfully present with us preserving us from their delusions and strengthening us in believing that very Jesus to be the Son of God to overcome their assaults and still to wait for that his coming again which is truly and properly called his second coming which we are sure they have never seen nor is it yet come nor hath been to any what ever any vainly imagine and boast of For 2. Of this next and second coming of Christ it is affirmed by the Spirit of Truth 1. That it shall be in the same body in which he suffered and rose from the dead the third day and shewed himself to his Disciples alive after his passion even the same Jesus which while they beheld was taken up from them into Heaven Acts 1. 9. 10. and 3. 31. 15. 20 21. Mat. 26. 64. 2. His so coming shall be not a coming up in any man but a coming down from Heaven the Heaven above as opposed to the Earth beneath whence t is said he shall descend or come down which in respect of Glorious state or dignity he never shall as before is shewed 1 Thes 4. 16. 2 Thes 1. 7. Phil. 3. 20. 3. In this his coming all that sleep in Jesus with all of that body then surviving shall first see him but not one of them before another for in his very descending from Heaven before he appear upon the Earth by the sound of his voice in a moment in the twinkling of an eye the dead in Christ shall be raised and the survivers of that body shall then be changed and all of them suddenly caught up together to meet the Lord in the Ayre 1 Cor 15. 51 52. 1 Thes 4. 14 15 16 17. 4. This his coming then will be visible as the lightning that shines from the East and cometh even to the West Mat 24. 27. Luke 17. 24. So as every eye shall see him even those that shall wail before him Rev. 1. 7. Mat. 24. 30. and 26. 64. Mark 13. 26. and 14. 62. 5. This his visible coming shall be unto the Earth not with some but with all his Saints with him they being raised and changed as aforesaid and he shall then fully deliver the oppressed and slay all the wicked even every one that doth not presently submit to serve him and his People Zach. 14. 1. 5. 2 Pet. 3. 5 6 7. Psal 75. 10. and 149. 2 Thes 1. 7 8 9 10. 6. Then not onely all his Saints that come with him shall have Immortal bodies being as and equal to the Angels Luke 20 36. But also he will then restore all things even the other part of the Creation distinct from man that were made subject to vanity delivering it from the bondage of Corruption renewing the face of it for he shall make new Heavens and new Earth and all things new Acts 3. 20 21. Isa 6. and 65. 17. 2 Pet. 3. 10. 13. Rev. 21. 1. 5. Rom. 8. 19. 23. And then shall he take to him his great Power and Reign sitting on the Throne of David in Power and great Glory and set those that have been his suffering Saints on Thrones and they shall Reign with him on the Earth and judge the World until the finall and Eternal Judgement seize upon all the ungodly at the last and general Resurrection Isa 9. 7. Rev. 11. 15. 18 Luke 1. 31. 32 33 with Mat. 25. 31. c. Dan. 7. 13. 14. 18. 27. 1 Cor. 6. 2. Rev. 5. 10. and â—â— 4. 6 c. More might be but enough is said to shew that his second coming so called in Scripture his glorious appearing never yet hath been to any nor now is and though it be the day of the desire and longing of all unfeigned believers yet none of them shall see or injoy it otherwise then by Faith in the hope of it and powerful efficacies of that hope retained until they shall all see it together Luke 17. 22. 24. 37. 2 Tim. 4. â— Heb. 11. 40. 2 Thes 2. 1. with Chap. 1. 7. Yea they are all looking and waiting for it all the time of this present World while also they are waiting for the Redemption of the Body Tit. 2. 12 13. Heb. 9. 28. Rom. 8. 19. 25. Phil. 3. 20. 21. And if any say they have it or have seen it otherwise then by Faith as aforesaid and so lo here is Christ or there such are false christs and false prophets and we on such grounds as forementioned or warned not to believe or go after them Luke 17. 23 24. Mat. 24 23 24. As likewise if they say with Himmeneus the Resurrection is past already 2 Tim. 2. 18. Nor shall such scoffs or scoffers as 2 Pet. 3. 4. or as these appear in this question make us ashamed to professe We yet look and waite for this his second appearing and coming knowing that whatever reproach or denyal of it such make he that shall come will come and will not tarry longer then the appointed time which also hastens in his times God shall send and shew him c. Acts 3. 20. 1 Tim. 6. 14 15. Heb. 10. 37. 16. Query What are those seeds that must
generation or sort of men have finished their course as well as they But after this the Judgement even after this appointment of the whole kind once to die is fulfilled on all generations then will be the general final and Eternal judgement And though those that now sleep in Jesus and have suffered with him shall have their judgement come upon them their Kingdom glory given them to possess first before the rest of the dead yet that will not be till the time and state of the Resurrection of the just that have suffered with him for they shall first rise from the dead neither will that be till the beginning of that great day of Christ when the dayes of sufferings and trouble to that generation will be ended So that the judgement that properly so called as distinguished from other Judgements in this life that are temporal and reversible even the Eternal judgement that is after death it is in the time and state of the Resurrection for there shall be a General Resurrection of both the just and unjust in which they shall come forth to their judgement and that shall be to both at the hour or day of Christ even at his appearing and his Kingdom Acts 24. 15. John 5. 28 29. 2 Tim. 4. 1. and so much also appears in that which follows Heb. 9. 28. where after he hath said as it is appointed to men once to die but after this the judgement he adds as a remedy against the evil that otherwise might be unto men in that death or that judgement following so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin to salvation now as his first appearing to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself answers to the first death and misery and was effectual that by Christ we should be saved from perishing in it and that through him we might be saved so his second appearing without sin to Salvation answers to the judgement after death and is such as by it all those that now through his grace bringing salvation to all men in due time do look for him shall be saved from wrath through him even from the wrath to come when it shall come forth in that judgement so as they shall stand in the judgement even before the Son of man when he appears and the second death shall have no power on them yea they shall then be saved to the utmost by that his appearing yea he shall then appear to their salvation in that judgement which implies his appearing the second time to be first and the judgement after death following upon it at that his appearing and his Kingdome to come upon men in the time and state of the resurrection as before is shewed compare with the forementioned Scriptures Heb. 6. 2. Rev. 20. 12 13. Again their folly is manifest in taking up a sence of the Word Hell from some common contradions without examination as if in every place it signified that place and state of torment in which the wicked are to be punished for ever after the passing of the Eternal judgement upon them whereas they might have known the word Hell is used in Scripture generally for that which is deep and low obscure and dark And so 1. Sometime for the Grave or disappearing state of death whence t is often translated grave from which and from the power of it there is a redemption and deliverance though no man can redeem himself c. Psal 49. 8 9. 15. and 89. 48. Job 17. 13. 16. with Hos 13. 14. 2. Sometime for any such distress or misery as threatens death and as in which a man is in darknesse that he can see no way out or how deliverance should come out of which yet there may be deliverance though he see not how as Jonahs being in the Whales belly Jonah 2. 2 3. c. see also Psalm 86. 13. 88. 6. and 116. 3 4 c. 3. Sometime for that place and state of darkness and separation from God into which the Spirits of ungodly sinners that dy in their sins are cast and shut up from the time of their departing out of the body unto the judgement of the great day for when the body returns to its dust then the spirit returns to God who gave it Ecles 3. 21. and 12. 7. by him to be appointed to its proper place by whom the Spirits of Believers such as die in the Lord are received into Paradise a place and state of pleasure and rest in heaven under the altar on which the perfect Sacrifice was offered sometimes called Abrahams bosom t is such as in which they are from the time of their departure out of the flesh or body with the Lord made perfect so much as the Spirit without the body is capable yet still waiting for the redemption of the Body and Glorious Kingdom promised And so likewise by him the Spirits of the disobedient that persisted in the refusal of him till their sin was finished are when they depart out of the body at the death of the body driven away shut cut from his presence shut up as prisoners in some place and state of darknesse where they are reserved to the judgement of the great day Prov. 14. 32. Isa 24. 22. 1 Pet. 3. 19 20. And this is called hell Psal 9. 17. Luke 16. 23. Rev. 20. 13. that hell that follows or goes along with the first death Rev. 6. 8. That might have been an everlasting Prison to the Souls or Spirits of all mankind had not Christ abolished death by his appearing and obtained a release of all Mankind unto him and the Keys of Hell and Death into his hand But now by him that Hell going with or pertaining to the first death as in this last sence is onely appointed for a prison for all the ungodly in which they shall be reserved as in chains of darknesse to the judgement of the great day where also they are fil'd with unspeakable horror and torment in their spirit in the remembrance and sence of what they have lost and for what lying vanities and what they must shortly and for ever suffer in soul and body together reunited And out of this Hell there shall be such a deliverance as may be resembled by the deliverance of Prisoners to judgement so Rev. 20. 13. John 8. 28 29. in which yet they are not delivered out of darknesse but still in a state of separation from God and the Light of his countenance brought forth to receive their bodies that slept in dust and in them to receive their final conviction and judgement Again 4. Sometime and but seldome the word Hell singly but Hell fire is used for that wrath to come the lake of fire prepared for the Devil and his angels which is to man the second death into which they are not cast while the body is held in the grave and
Children in their infancy no such thing is required expresly because they have not known c. Deut. 1. â— 2. c. Nor are any blamed for not knowing to do good till they are wise to do evil And there is a time when they know not to chuse the good and refuse the evil and no such knowledge being given them nothing of that nature is required of them though the declarations of Gods Grace in Christ are affirmed true concerning them and his free promises in Christ to them and so to be witnessed by his servants But so soon as God requires any hearing knowing or acknowledgement of his Grace of any he prevents them with his Grace bringing Salvation to them even by his Spirit to their spirits as before sowing his Words in their hearts as Mat. 13. 19. And further we say that when the light of the knowledge of God comes to them it shines in darknesse it finds them in darknesse yea dead in sins and trespasses John 1. 5. and 5. 25. Ephes 2. 1. 4. Else no need of shining light into them from without them at least not of such light as in which is both discovery of the objects or things to be known as also giving of understanding or opening the eyes of the minde to perceive what is discovered as Psal 119. 130. with Psal 19. 7. Acts 26. 18. Again we say that if when light comes men love darknesse and like not to retain God in their knowledge they are still darknesse and have not the knowledge of God So the Ephesians were sometimes darknesse but now saith the Apostle ye are light yet he saith not in themselves but in the Lord who is the Fountain and Original of their light Ephes 5. 8. 1 Cor. 15. 34. But if any persist in their chusing darknesse when light comes or on hearing reject or after receiving the knowledge of the Truth put it away from them till his holy Spirit have done shining with them and he take it away from them Then they are left to hardnesse and blindnesse and have no true or morning light in them but a mind void of Judgement Rom. 1. 28. with Psal 8. 12. 2 Thes 2. 11. with 1 Tim. 4. 1 2. Jude 12. And so we read of many that under one or other of these considerations that is either not having heartily received or not retaining or having rejected to the utmost are truly said to have no morning light or knowledge of Christ the morning Star in them as Isa 8. 20. no truth in them Yea that is expresly affirmed of such as say they have no sin as 1 John 1. 8. 10. But if so say they what saith he then to this the Gospel is Preached in every Creature under Heaven Answ To that he saith 1. Where read they those words that the Gospel is Preached in every Creature under Heaven The Apostles were commissioned and instructed to Preach the Gospel to every Creature namely of all the Nations or Generations of mankind as appeares by comparing the three Evangelists Relation of the Commission Mat 28. 19. Mark 16. 15. Luke 24. 47 48. And accordingly the Apostle Paul saith having obtained help of God he did continue witnessing both to small and great not of any thing in every of them but saying none other things then what Moses and the Prophets did say should come to passe and so witnessed them as things not actually accomplished in their day as 1 Pet. â—â— 12. And then not in any person to whom they Preached how that Christ should suffer and should be the first that should rise from the dead and should shew light to the People and to the Gentiles these things the Apostles Preached as now manifested by the appearing of Christ who had now suffered and risen and ascended and received the promise of the Holy Ghost in that body prepared for him once in the end of the World and therein abolished Death and thereby brought Life and Immortality to light through the Gospel 2 Tim. 1. 10. with Acts 2. 22. 36. And so in that Col. 1. 23. The words are as in our reading the Gospel which they the Collosians had heard and of which he was made a Minister was or had been Preached to every Creature and that reading agrees with vers 6. where he saith it was now come unto them as in all the World and did bring forth fruit it was now come unto them in the Preaching of it it appeares it was not in them before for then it could not have been said to have come unto them the Grace of God brings Salvation unto men it finds it not in them before And though in its being brought to them by the Preachings and witnesses of it in the Light and Power of his Spirit accompanying them it came into many of them such as were capable of hearing and so was manifested in them as Rom. 19. Yet still the thing manifested was not any thing essentially in them but that which may be known in God and of his Grace and Truth in and through Christs Repentance and Remission of sins in the Name of that Jesus of Nazareth and not in any other Name Luke 24. 47. with Acts 4. 10 11 12. That Christ had now once in the end of the World suffered in the flesh for our sins and that he was risen from the dead in that body in which he bore our sins on the Tree and is now become therein Gods light to the Gentiles and his Salvation to the ends of the Earth Acts 26. 22 23. with Chap. 2. 22. 36. and 13. 23. 38. 4â— and 17. 3. This was the thing brought to them in the witnesses of it which was also evidenced by the Spirit to their spirits and so manifested in them Yea further he onely that believeth on the Son of God is said to have this witnesse in himself and neither is he said to have the thing witnessed in himself otherwise then by Faith receiving the Testimony God hath given of Christ which witnesse he hath in him But such as like not to retain God in their knowledge but on hearing reject are not yet said to have it though it be still manifested by his Spirit to their spirits and so in them working and striving for reception and entertainment as is foreshewed Yea neither was it so manifested in or to the minds or spirits of all to whom they witnessed it to an opening of their eyes and moving to Repentance for they witnessed to small and great to every Creature of mankind and so unto such as yet were not capable of hearing or attending to the things spoken by them and so of whom therefore no such thing was required yet they witnessed it unto such in as much as they so Preached it as all their hearers might understand the latitude of the Grace of it that it reached to and included their Children as well as themselves and was tidings of great joy to all People Acts 2. 39.