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spirit_n apostle_n holy_a prophet_n 5,466 5 6.3917 4 false
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A09739 Ane answer made the fourth day of Septembre a thousand fyue hundreth syxtie [and] one, by maister Theodore de Besza minister of the holie Euangile, in the presence of the quene mother, the king and quene of Nauarre, the princes of the blood royall, and of the priuie counseil, vnto that whiche the cardinall of Lorraine had replied against that whiche was propounded in the first iourney of their talking together, by the said de Besza in the name of the reformed churches. Together with an other short answer made by the said de Besza the 26 day of the said moneth vnto certein articles of replie set forth by the said cardinall Bèze, Théodore de, 1519-1605.; Baron, John. 1562 (1562) STC 2000; ESTC S119255 24,857 90

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y e worde And for this cause in so many places is it named food nooriture according to that whiche y e Lorde haeth said y t his shepe will heare his voyce not the voyce of a stranger I adde the Sacramentes for asmuche as the Lorde haeth not willed vs not onely to be taught by oure eares but also by oure eyes and other senses of oure bodyes therefore haeth he willed that the Sacramentes shoulde be sure visible witnesses and sealles of the vnion or knitting together of his children first with him self and then after amongest them selues Ye may see now why it was said in the olde lawe y t the vncyrcumcised shoulde be destroyed from among the people of God And for this cause also it behoued that all the heades of euery familly shoulde compere thre tymes a yere at least in Ierusalem for to witnesse by the same sacrifices their vnitie of faith and religion And afterwardes when the wall betwene the two was broken the Gentiles and the Israelites were broght into one bodye not onely by the preaching but also by Baptisme and by the holy Sacrament of the body blood of oure Lorde according to that whiche Iesus Christe said vnto his Apostles Go and teache all nations baptising them in the Name of the Father the Sonne and of the holy Spirit whereunto we must ioyn that whiche Saint Paule sayeth that he hath giuen touching the Supper y t whiche he had receyued of the Lorde This is also that whiche in an other place he sayeth that the Churche is founded vpon the foundation of the Prophetes Apostles that is to say vpon Iesus Christe whiche is the substance of the doctrine of the Prophetes Apostles Lykewyse must we vnderstād an other place of the same Apostle wherein he sayeth y t the Churche is the prop piller of the veritie that is to say that y e worde of God whiche is the veritie as it is written in S. Iohn susteyneth vpholdeth the Churche or els is placed in the Churche as in a sure hie place forasmuche as ī it God sheweth his puissance vnto saluation to all beleuers as S. Paule declareth vnto the Romains in the first chaptre Beholde therefore the right and visible marckes of the Churche whiche is called for this cause the mother of the faithfull begotten noorished in the same with the true and incorruptible foode Now if there be preaching of y e worde and administration of the Sacramentes it must of force be concluded that there be pastors and doctors vnto whome this charge must be cōmitted according to that whiche the Scripture thereof witnesseth euery where namelie in y t w c is writtē vnto the Corinthiēs to y e Ephesiens Therefore may ye se why y e some putt to y e thirde marcke that is to say y e ordinarie succession from y e tyme of the Apostles wherevnto we answer y t suche a succession is greatly to be praised prouided alwayes that it be well considered applied as some haue often tymes therewith strengthened them selues against the newnes of heretikes as appereth in Tertullian Irenee S. Augustine against the Manicheens and Donatistes But forasmuche as there is a buckler hereof made against vs as if we were inuenters of new thinges or that we pretended thereby to haue help it is more then nedefull that it should be knowen what estimation we haue of this succession we say that there is a succession of doctrine and a succession of persons As touching the succession of doctrin we auowe it as an infallible marcke of the true Churche according to y e whiche we haue already spoken For notwithstanding that the doctrine af the Euangile is more then credible without hauing authoritie of ancientie that it commeth often to passe through oure iniquities and by the iust vengeance of God that it is as new vnto men as that it oght to be vnto them familiare and accustumed yet this notwithstanding the witnes of an ancient and continuall succession serueth much vnto men to make them the more inexcusable And as touching the succession of persones we auowe it also but vnder condition and prouided that it be conioyned with the succession of the doctrine of the Prophetes and Apostles at the least in the pointes of the substance and grounde thereof and none otherwyse And marck if it please you my Lordes that I speake notablie of y e doctrine and not of maners for althogh it be requesit for a good and true pastor to be perfyte in doctrine and in lyuing yet because of ignorance or for some diuersitie of opinions of the doctrine whiche be not of the substance ground thereof also for his manners we will not stik to suffer him being a pastor to be still a pastor prouided alwayes y t he kepe the foundation of the doctrine we be taught thus to speake by the wordes of oure Lord Iesus Christe y t whiche saied forasmuche as y e Scribes and Pharisies were set in Moisis chair y t it behoued to doo as they taught and not that whiche they did The whiche place S. Augustine writing on S. Iohn in his 46 treatise declareth that it oght to be vnderstand of hyrelingis whiche faill not to haue this doctrine not of fals Prophetes of whom Christe haeth contrarywyse spoken Be ye ware of the leuain of the Pharisies Being saith S. Augustine set in y e Chair of Moises they teache the law of God and therefore God teacheth by them But if they wil teache their owne doctrines nether heare ye them nor do ye those thinges that they speake The whiche thing y e same authoure expoundeth yet more at large in his 49 Sermon De verbis domini So therefore my Lordes to retourne again to the point because tha● the fals Prophetes may succede vnto the trow and w●●es vnto the ryght shepherdes behold a 〈◊〉 peremptorie for the w c we esteme a personall succession nor onely to be receiued but altogether to be cōdemned as giuing occassion ●nto falset except that the succession of the doctrine be ioyned thereunto for the foundation Furthermore if this personall succession were simply holden for an infallible marcke of the Churche it behoued then to shew vs some promise of God by w c he haeth 〈◊〉 and bound his grace vnto certen seates or regions y t whiche thing we suppose can not be found in the new Testament But ryght well know we that there is alwayes a Catholicke Churche that is an vniuersall Churche ●orasmuche as the particuler membres thereof be scattered here there throughout the hole worlde according as it pleaseth God to exercise his iudgementes vpon some of them that he haeth ether altogether cut of or els that he haeth chastened for a tyme and his mercies vpon other some of them y t he