Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	apostle_n	holy_a	lord_n	6,631	5	3.5276	3	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A76258	Certamen religiosum or, a conference between His late Majestie Charles King of England, and Henry late Marquess and Earl of Worcester, concerning religion; at His Majesties being at Raglan Castle, 1646. Wherein the maine differences (now in controversie) between the Papists and the Protestants is no lesse briefly then accuratly discusss'd and bandied. Now published for the worlds satisfaction of His Majesties constant affection to the Protestant religion. By Tho: Baylie Doctor in Divinity and Sub-Deane of Wels.	Bayly, Thomas, d. 1657?; Charles I, King of England, 1600-1649.; Worcester, Henry Somerset, Marquis of, 1577-1646.	1649 (1649)	Wing B1506; Thomason E1355_1; ESTC R209153	85,962	251

and whose opinions are most approved of by the Primitive times Fathers and what ground your late Divines have built their new opinions upon and then I shall give your Majesty an answer to the objection which you make against our Church viz. That she hath forsaken her first love and fallen from the principles which she held when she converted us to Christianity But first to the removall of those rubs in our way and then I shall shew as much reverence to the Scripture as any Protestant in the world and shall endeavour to shew your Majesty that the Sctiptures are the Basis or foundation upon which our Church is built Your Majesty was pleased to urge the errors of certain Fathers to the prejudice of their authority which I conceive would have been so had they been all Montanists Rebaptists all Anthropomorphists and all of them generally guilty of the faults where-with they were severally charged in the particulars seeing that when we produce a Father we doe not intend to produce a man in whose mouth was never found guile the infallibility being never artributed by us otherwise then unto the Church not unto particular Church-men as Your Majesty hath most excellenly observed in the failings of the holy Apostles who erred after they had received the holy Ghost in so ample manner but when they were all gathered together in Councell and could send about their edicts with these capitall letters in the front Visum est spiritui sancto nobis Acts 15. 28. then I hope your Majesty cannot say that it was possible for them to erre So though the Fathers might erre in particulars yet those particular errors would be swallowed up in a generall Councel and be no more considerable in respect of the whole then so many heat-drops of error can stand in competition with a cloud of witnesses to the divine truth be no more prejudiciall to their general determinations then so many exceptions are prejudicial to a general rule Neither is a particular defection in any man any exception against his testimony cept it be in the thing wherhin he is deficient for otherwise we should be of the nature of the flies who only prey upon corruption leaving all the rest of the body that is whole unregarded Secondly Your Majesty taxes generall Councels for committing errors If Your Majesty would be pleased to search into the times wherein those Councels were called Your Majesty shall find that the Church was then under persecution and how that Arrian Emperours rather made Assemblies of Divines then called any generall Councels and if we should suppose them to be generall and free Councels yet they could not be erroneous in any particular mans judgement untill a like generall Councel should have concluded the former to be erroneous except you wil allow particulars to condemn generals private men the whol Church all generall Councels from the first unto the last that ever were or shall be maks but one Church and though in their intervails there be no session of persons yet there is perpetuall virtue in their decretals to which every man ought to appeal for judgment in point of controversie Now as it is a maxim in our law Nullum tempus occurrit regi so it is a maxim in divinity Nullum tempus occurrit deo Vbi deus est as he promised I will be with you alwaies unto the end of the world that is with his Church in directing her chief Officers in all their consultations relating either to the truth of her doctrine or the manner of her discipline wherefore if it should be granted that the Church had at any time determined amiss the Church cannot be said to have erred because you must not take the particular time for the Catholick Church because the Church is as well Catholick for time as territory except that you will make rectification an error For as in civil affairs if that wee should take advantage of the Parliaments nulling former Acts and thereupon conclude that we will be no more regulated by its lawes we should breed confusion in the Common-wealth for as they alter their lawes upon experience of present inconveniences so the Councels cange their decrees according to that further knowledge which the holy writ assures us shall encrease in the latter daies provided that this knowledge he improved by means approved of and not by every enthusiastick that shall oppose himself against the whole Church If I recall my own words it is no error but an avoidance of error so where the same power rectifies it selfe though some things formerly have been decreed amiss yet that cannot render the decrees of generall Councels not binding or incident to error quoad ad no● though in themselves and protempore they may be so As to Your Majesties objecting the errors of the holy Apostles and pen-men of the holy Ghost and Your inference thereupon viz. That truth is no where to be found but in holy Scripture under Your Majesties correction I take this to be the greatest argument against the private spirit urged by your Majesty its leading us into all truth that could possibly be found out For if such men as they indued with the holy Ghost inabled with the power of working miracles so sanctyfied in their callings and enlightened in their understandings could erre how can any man lesse quallified assume to himself a freedome from not erring by the assistance of a private spirit Lastly as to Your Majesties quotations of so many Fathers for the Scriptures easines and plainnesse to be understood If the Scriptures themselves doe tell us that they are hard to be understood so that the unleaned and unstable wrest them to their own destruction 2 Peter 3. 16. and if the Scripture tells us that the Eunuch could not understand them except some man should guide him as Acts 8. 13. and if the Scripture tels us that Christs own Disciples could not understand them untill Christ himself expounds them unto them as Luke 24. 25. and if the Scriptures tell us how the Angel wept much because no man was able either in heaven or earth to open the Book sealed with seven seals nor to look upon it as Apoc. 5. 1. then certainly all these sayings of theirs are either to be set to the errata's that are be hind their books or else we must look out some other meaning of their words then what Your Majesty hath inferr'd from thence as thus they were easie id est in aliquibus but not in omnibus locis or thus they were easie as to the attainment of particular salvation but not as to the generall cognisance of all the divine mystery therein contained requisite for the Churches understanding and by her alone and her consultations and discusments guided by an extraordinary and promised assistance only to be found out of which as to every ordinary man this knowledge is not necessary so hereof he is not capable First we hold the reall presence

non una exors quaedam iminens detur potestas tot efficerentur in Ecclesia schismata quot Sacerdotes Wherefore I would faine find out that which the Scripture bids me hear audi Ecclesiam I would faine referre my self to that to which the Scripture commands me to appeale and tells me that if I do not I shall be a heathen and a Publican dic Ecclesiae which Church Saint Paul in his first Epistle calls the pillar and foundation of Truth of which the Propbet Ezekiel saith I will place my Sanctification in the midst of her for ever and the Prophet Esay that the Lord would never forsake her in whose light the people shall walke and Kings in the brightness of her Orient Against which our Saviour saith The gates of Hell shall not pervaile with whom our Saviour saith he would be alwayes unto the end of the world And from whom the Spirit of Truth should never depart For although the Psalmist tells us that the word of the Lord is clear inlightning the eyes yet the same Prophet said to God Enlighten mine eyes that I may see the marveils of thy Law And Saint John tells us that the book of God had seven Seales and it was not every one that was thought worthy to open it onely the lambe The Disciples had been ignorant if Jesus had not opened the Scriptures unto them The Eunuch could not understood them without an Interpreter and Saint Peter tels us that the Scripture is not of private Interpretation and that in his brother Pauls epistles there are many things hard to be understood which ignorant and light-headed-men wrest to their own perdition Wherefore though as Saint Chrysostom saith Omnia clara sunt plana exscripturis divinis quaecunque necessaria sunt manifesta sunt yet no man ever hath yet defined what are necessary and what not What points are fundamentall and what are not fundamentall Necessary to Salvation is one thing and necessary for knowledge as an improvement of our faith is an other thing for the first if a man keeps the Commandments and believes all the Articles of the Creed he may be saved though he never read a word of Scripture but much more assuredly if he meditates upon Gods word with the Psalmist day and night But if he meanes to walk by the rule of Gods word and to search the Scriptures he must lay hold upon the means that God hath ordained whereby he may attain unto the true understanding of them for as Saint Paul saith God hath placed in the Church Apostles Prophets Evangelists Pastors and Doctors to the end we should be no more little children blowen about with every wind of Doctrine therefore it is not for babes in understanding to take upon them to understand those things wherein so great a Prophet as the Prophet David confessed the darkness of his own ignorance And though it be true the Scripture is a river through which a lambe may wade and an Elephant may swim yet it is to be supposed and understood that the lambe must wade but onely through where the river is foordable It doth not suppose the river to be all alike in depth for such a river was never heard of but there may be places in the river where the lambe may swim as well as the Elephant otherwise it is impossible that an Elephant should swim in the same depth where a lambe may wade though in the same river he may neither is it the meaning of that place that the child of God may wade through the Scripture without directions help or Judges but that the meanest capacitie qualified with a harmeless innocence and desirous to wade through that river of living waters to eternal life may find so much of Comfort and heavenly knowledge there easily to be obtained that he may easily wade through to his eternal Salvation and that there are also places in the same river wherein the highest speculations may plunge themselves in the deep misteries of God Wherefore with pardon crav'd for my presumption in holding Your Majestie in so tedious a discourse as also for my boldness in obtruding my opinion which is except as incomparable Hooker in his Ecclesiasticall pollicy hath well observed the Churches Authority be required herein as necessary hereunto we shall be so far from agreeing upon the true meaning of the Scripture that the outward letter sealed with the inward witness of the Spirit being all hereticks have quoted Scripture and pretended Spirit will not be a warrant sufficient enough for any private man to judge so much as the Scripture to be Scripture or the Gospel it self to be the Gospel of Christ This Church being found out and her Authority allowed of all controversies would be soon decided and although we allow the Scripture to be the lock upon the door which is Christ yet we must allow the Church to be the Key that must open it as Saint Ambrose in his 38. Sermon calls the agreement of the Apostles in the Articles of our beliefe Clavis Scripturae one of whose Articles is I believe the holy Catholick Church As the Lion wants neither strength nor courage nor power nor weapons to seize upon his prey yet he wants a nose to find it out wherefore by naturall instinct he takes to his assistants the little Jack-call a quick sented beast who runs before the Lion and having found out the prey in his language gives the Lion notice of it who soberly untill such time as he fixes his eyes upon the bootie makes his advance but once comming within view of it with a more speed then the swiftest running can make hast he jumps upon it and seizes it Now to apply this to our purpose Christ crucified is the main substance of the Gospel according to the Apostles saying I desire to know nothing but Jesus and him crucified This crucified Christ is the nourishment of our soules according to our Saviours own words Vbi Cadaver ibi aquilae Thereby drawing his Disciples from the curious speculation of his body glorified to the profitable meditation of his body crucified It is the prey of the Elect the dead Carkes feedeth the Eagles Christ crucified nourisheth his Saints according to Saint Johns saying except we eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his bloud we have no life in us him we must mastigate and chew by faith traject and convey him into our hearts as nutriment by meditation and digest him by Coalition whereby we grow one with Christ and Christ becomes one with us according to that saying of Tertullian auditu devorandus est intellectu ruminandus fide digerendus Now for the true understanding of the Scriptures which is no other thing then the finding out of Jesus and him crucified who is the very life of the Scriptures which body of Divinitie is nourished with no other food and all its vaines fil'd with no other bloud though this heavenly food the Scripture have neither force nor

setting down things more obscurely There is no particular point of Doctrine in the holy Scripture so manifestly set down as that concerning the Church and the Markes thereof nothing set down more copious and perspicuous then the visibility perpetuitie and amplitude of the Church So that Saint Augustin did not stick to say that the Scriptures were more clear about the Church then they were about Christ. Let him answer for it He said so in his book de unitate Ecclesiae and this he said was the reason because God in his wisedome would have the Church to be described without any ambiguity that all Controversies about the Church may be clearly decided wherehy questions about particular Doctrines may find determinations in her judgement and that Visibility might shew the way unto the most rude and ignorant and I know not any Church to whom it may more justly be attributed then to the Church of Rome whose Faith as in the beginning was spread through the whole world so all along and at this day it is generally known among all nations Next to this I prove the Catholick Church to be the Romane because a lawfull succession of Pastors is required in every true Church according to the Prophet Esay his Prophecie concerning her viz. My Spirit which is upon thee and the words which I have put into thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy seed nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed from henceforth for ever This succession I can find onely in the Church of Rome This Succession they onely can prove none else offering to go about it This Succession Saint Augustin sayes kept him in that Church viz. a Succession of Priests from the very seat of Peter the Apostle to the present Bishop of his time And Optatus Milevitanus recons all the Romane Bishops from Saint Peter to Syricius who then was Pope and by this he shewed and made it his Argument that the true Church was not with the Donatists bidding them to shew the Originall of their Chayre this no Protestant did or ever can do The Romane Church gave the English Bishops Commission to preach the Doctrine of Christ as they have delivered it unto them but they never gave them any Commission to preach against her Religion which Bishops being turned out for observing the depositum wherewith they were instructed and new Bishops chosen in their room by her who not contenting her self with being a nursing mother thereof must needs be head of the child and moderatrix in the same Church wherein by the Apostles precept she is forbidden to speak the Succession was broke off the branch cut off from the body becoming no part of the tree sit for nothing but to be chopt into smaller pieces and so fitted for the fire this proofe of Succession the Bishops of England thought so necessary for proving their Church to be the true Church that they affirmed themselves to be consecrated by Catholick Bishops their Predecessors wbich never proved argues the interruption and affirming it shewes how that in their own opinion the Succession could not hold in the inferiour Ministers as indeed it cannot for as there is a continued supply of Embassadours in all places yet the Succession is in the royall race so though all vacancies are replenished by Ministers of the Gospel yet the Succession of the Authority was in the Bishops as descended to them from the Apostles according to our Saviours rule I will be with you alwayes unto the end of the world Which Affirmation of theirs argues that their calling is insufficient without it and in that they would faine derive it from the Church of Rome it argues that that is the true Church and yet they would forsake her supposing her to have errors when that Reformation it self was but a Supposition for seeing they hold that their Church may erre they can be certain of nothing and whilst for errors sake they forsake the Church of Rome the Church of England in forsaking her may be in the greatest error of all where there is neither Succession nor assurance I must leave her to her self and Your Majestie to judge Next I prove the Romane Church to be the true Church by her unity in Doctrine for so the Apostle Paul requires all the Churches children to be of one mind viz. I beseech you that all speak one thing Be ye knit together in one mind and one Judgement 1. Cor. 1. Endeavouring to keep the unitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace Ephes 4. 3. The multitude of them that believed were of one heart of one soul Act. 4. 32. Continue in one spirit and one mind of one accord and one judgement Phil. 1. 27. Phil. 2. 2. So our Saviour prayeth that they may be one So Joseph forewarned his brethren that they should not fall out by the way knowing that whilst they were with him he could order them when they came to their father he could order them but having no head they should be apt to dissentious This Vnity I find no where but in the Church of Rome agreeing in all things which the Church of Rome hath determined for Doctrine whereas the Protestant Doctrine like the heresie of Simon Magus divided it self into severall Sects and to that of the Donatists which were cut into small threds in so much that among the many Religions which are lately sprung up and the sub sub subdivisions under them each one pretending to be the true Protestant excluding the other and all of them together no more likely to be bound up in the bond of peace then a bundle of thornes can expect binding with a rope of sand In vaine is their excuse if non-disagreement in fundamentalls for they dis-agree amongst themselves about the Sacrament for the Lutherans hold Consubstantiation but the Church of England no such matter Some that Christ descended into hell others not The Church of England maintaine their King to be the head of the Church The Helvetians will acknowledge no such matter the Presbyterians will acknowledge no such matter the Independent will acknowledge no such matter Concerning the Government of the Church by Bishops some Protestants maintaine it to be Jure Divino others to be Jure Ecclesiastico others no such matter Some thinks that the English translations of the Bible in some places takes away in other places addes and other-some places changes the meaning of the holy Ghost and some think it no such matter or else the Bishops would not have recommended Lincol. min. to K. James pag. 11. 13. it unto the people Lastly they are so far from agreeing about the true meaning of the word of God that they cannot agree upon what is the word of God For Lutherans deny the second Epistle of Saint Peter the second and third Chem. Ex. Contr. Trid. part 1. pag. 55 Also Eucher p. 63. Epistle of Saint John the Epistle to the Hebr.

themselves lesse obnoxious to error either in life or doctrine more to be preferred then any or all the world besides one of them betraies his Saviour another denies him all forsake him They thought Christs Kingdome to have been of this world and a promise only unto the Jewes and not unto the Gentiles and this after the resurrection They wondred that the holy Ghost should fall upon the Gentiles Saint John twice worshipped the Angel and was rebuked for it Apoc. 22. 8. Saint Paul saw how Peter walked not uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel Gal. 2. 14. Not only Peter but other of the Apostles were ignorant how the word of God was to be preached unto the Gentiles But who then shall rowl away the stone from the mouth of the monument Who shall expound the Scriptures to us one puls one way and another another by whom shall we be directed Scinditur incertum studia in contraria vulgus You that cry up the Fathers the Fathers so much shall hear how the Fathers do tell us that the Scriptures are their own interpreters Irenaeus who was scholler to Policarpus that was schollar to Saint John lib. 3. ca. 12. thus saith Ostentiones quae sunt in Scripturis non possunt ostendi nisi ex ipsis Scripturis the evidences which are in Scripture cannot be manifested but out of the same Scripture Clemeus Alexandinus Nos ex ipsis deipsis Scripturis perfecte demonstrantes ex fide persuademus demonstrative Strom. li. 7. Out of the Scriptures themselves from the same Scriptures perfectly demonstrating doe we draw demonstrative perswasions from faith Crysost Sacra Scriptura seipsam exponit auditorem errare non sinit Basilius Magnus Quae ambigue quae obscure videntur dici in quibusdam locis sacrae Scripturae ab ijs quae in alijs locis aperta perspicua sunt explicantur Hom 13. in Gen. Those things which may seem to be ambiguous and obsure in certain places of the holy Scripture must be explicated from those places which else-where are plain and manifest Augustinus Ille qui cor habet Questionū asceticarū secundum eptt regula tre cen●ssi ema sexagessima quod precisum est jungat Scripturae legat superiora vel inferiora et in veniet sensum Let him who hath a precise heart joyne it unto the Scriptures and let him observe what goes before and that which follows after and he shall find out the sense Gregorius saith Ser. 49. De verbis Domini Per Scripturam loquitur deus omne quod vult et voluntas dei sicut in testamento sic in evangelio inquiratur By Scripture God speaks his whole mind and the will of God as in the old Testament so in the new is to be found out Optatus contra parmenonem lib. 5. Num quis aequior arbiter veritatis divinae quam deus out ubi deus manifestius loquitur quam in verbo suo Is there a better judge of the divine verity then God himselfe or where dorh God more manifestly declare himself then in his own word What breath shall we believe then but that which is the breath of God the holy Scriptures for it seems all one to Saint Paul to say dicit Sriptura the Scripture saith Rom. 4. 3. and dicit Deus the Lord saith Rom. 9. 17. The Scripture hath concluded all under sin Gallathians 3. 22. for that which Romans 11. 32. he saith God hath concluded all c. how shall we otherwise conclude then but with the Apostle 1 Cor. 2. 12. we have received not the spirit of the world but the spirit which is of God that we might know the things that are freely given unto us of God They who know not this spirit do deride it but this spirit is the hidden Manna Apo. 2. 17. which God giveth them to eat who shall overcome it is the white stone wherein the new name is written which no man knoweth but he that received it Wherefore we see the Scripture is the rule by which all difference may be composed it is the light wherein we must walk the food of our souls an antidote that expels any infection the only sword that kils the enemy the only plaster that can cure our wounds and the only documents that can be given towards the attainment of ever lasting salvation The Marquesses reply to the Kings Paper May it please your most excellent Majestie YOur Majestie is pleased to wave all the marks of the true Church and to make recourse unto the Scriptures I humbly take leave to ask Your Majestie what heretique that ever was did not do so How shall the greatest heretique in the world be confuted or censured if any man may be permitted to appeal to Scriptures margind with his own notes senc'd with his own meaning and enlivened with his own private spirit to what end were those marks so fully both by the Prophets the Apostles and our Saviour himself set down if we make no use of them To what use are land marks set up if Marriners will not believe them to be such Yet notwithstanding after that I have said what I have to say in removall of certain obstacles that lie in the way I shall lead your Majesty to my Church through the full body of the Scriptures or not at all and then I shall leave it to your royall heart to judge when you shall see that we have Scripture on our side whether or no the interpretation thereof be likelier to be true that hath been adjudged so by Councels renowned Fathers famous for sanstity and holinesse of life continued for the space of a thousand or twelve hundred years by your own confession universally acknowledged or that such a one as Luther his word shall be taken either without Scripture or against it with sic volo and sic Jubeo a man who confessed himself that he received his doctrine from the Devil or such a one as Calvin and their associates notoriously infamous in their lives conversations plain rebels to their Moses and Aaron united to the same person should counter-ballance al the worthies deterninations of Councels the continued practices which so many ages produced If your Majesty means by the Church all the professors of the Gospel all that are Christians are so the true Church then we are so in your own sense and you in ours then none who believe in the blessed Trinity the articles of the Creed none who deny the Scriptures to be the word of God let them consture them as they please can be hereticall or of a wrong Religion therefore we must contradistinguish them thus and by the Protestant Church and Religion we must understand those opinions which the Protestants hold contrary to the Church of Rome and by the Romane the opinions which they hold dissenting from the Protestant and then we will see whether we have Scripture for our religion or not and whether you have Scripture for what you maintain

enclosure of brotherly affection d Cant. 4. 12. Cant. 2. 1. Will you forsake the Rose of Sharon and the Lillie of the Vallies for such a nose-gay for I shall make it apparent unto Your Majestie that the Doctrines which Protestants now hold as in opposition unto us were but so many condemned heresies by the antient and orthodoxall Fathers of the Church and never opposed by any of them as for example Protestants hold that the Church may erre this they had from the Donatists for which they were frequently reproved by St. Augustin a Passim cont Donat. Protestants denie unwritten traditions and urge Scripture onely This they had from the Arrians who were condemned for it by St. Epiphanius and St. Augustin both b Epiph. Her 75. Aug cont maxim li 1. c. 2. ult Protestants teach that Priests may marry this they had from Vigilantius who is condemned for it by St. Hieronimus c Con. Vigilan c. 1. Protestants denie Prayer for the dead this they had from Arrius for which he is condemned by St. August and Epiphanius both d Aug haer 53. Epiphan haer 75. Protestants denie Invocation of Saints this they had from Vigilantius for which he was condemned by St. Hieron e Hic Cont Vigil c. 3. Protestants denie Reverence to Images this they had from Xenias for which he is reproved by Nicephorus f Hist li 16. c. 27. Protestants denie the reall Presence this they had from the Carpenaites who were saith St. Augustin the first Hereticks that denied the reall Presence and that Judas was the first Suborner and Maintainer of this heresie g Aug in Psal 54. and 55. Protestants denie Confession of sins to a Priest so did the Novatian Hereticks and the Montanists for which they are reproved by St. Ambrose and St. Hieron h Ambr i de poenit c. 7. Hier Epist ad Marcle 54. Protestants say that they are justified by Faith onely this they had from the pseudo-Apostles for which they are condemned by St. Augustin i Aug de fide oper c. 14. Lastly as I have shewed Your Majestie that Your Church as it stands in opposition to ours is but a congeries of so many heresies to which I could easily make an enlargement but that I fear I have been too tedious already So I shall make it appear that our Church as she stands in opposition unto yours is true and right even your selves being witnesses you shall find our Doctrine among your own Doctors First the Greek Church whom you court to your side as indeed they are Protestants according to your vulgar reception being you call all those Protestants who are or were in any Opposition to the Church of Rome though in their Tenents otherwise they never so much do disagree For the Greek Church with which you so often hit us in the teeth and take to be of your faction she holds Invocation of Saints Adoration of Images Transubstantiation Communion in one kind for the sick and many others Master Parker confesseth that Luther crossed himself morning and evening and is never seen to be painted praying but before a Crucifix a Against Simb part 1. C. 2. sect 30. p. 105. See Jo Crevel refut Cerem miss p. 188 Jo Manl Loc Com. p. 636. As touching the Invocation of Saints saith Luther I think with the whole Christian Church and hould that Saints are to be honoured by us and invocated b Purgat quorund art in Ep ad Georg. Spal Inever denied Purgatorie saith Luther and yet I believe it as I have often written and confessed c Tom 7. fol 132. adversus bullam See him also in disp Lips c. de purgat resolut de indulg Conclus 16. See likewise Zwingl Tom 2. fol. 378. If it is lawfull saith Luther for the Jewes to have the picture of Caesar upon their Coins much more is it lawfull for Christians to have in their Churches Crosses and Images of Mary d Luth in Consolat prolab Ii 6. See this cited forth of Luth by Hasp Hist Sac p. 2. f. 33. and lastly he maintained the reall Presence e See Zwingl Tom. 2. fol 375. f p. 2. 16. g Pag 209. But let us go a little further and consider what they held whom ye call your Predecessours under whom ye shroud your Visibility and on whom you look beyond Luther for your Doctrines Patronage viz. First upon the Hussites who brake forth about the year 1400. they held seven Sacraments f Transsubstantiation g the Popes primacy h Pag 217. art 7 8. and the Mass i Luth in Colloq Germ c. de missa as Fox in his acts and monuments acknowledgeth Let us go further and consider Wickliffe our own Countrey-man who appeared about the year 1370. he maintained holy water k Wick de blasphem cap 17. worship of Reliques and Images l Idem de Eucharist c. 9. Intercession of the blessed Virgin Mary m Idem in Ser. de Assump Mariae the rites and Ceremonies of the Mass n Idem de apostasia c. 18. all the seven Sacraments o Idem in postill sup c. 15. Marci Moreover he held Opinions contrary and condemned both by Catholick and Protestants as that if a Bishop or Priest be in any mortall sin his Ordaining Consecrating or Baptising is of no effect p Acts and mon p. 96. a art 4. He condemned lawfull Oaths with the Anabaptists q Osiand Epist Hist Eccles p. 459. art 43. Lastly he maintained that any Ecclesiasticall Ministers were not to have any temporall possessions r Act mon p. 96. This last Opinion was such savoury Doctrine that rather then some of those times would not hearken to that they would listen to all as the greedy appetites to Bishops Lands make some now a dayes to hearken unto any thing that Cryers down of Bishops shall foment To go further yet to the Waldenses descended from the race of one Waldo a Marchant of Lions who brake out about the year 1220. These men held the reall Presence Å¿ In Epist 244. p. 450. for which they were reproved by Calvin These men extolled the merit of voluntary poverty they held Transubstantiation t Illiricus Catalog Test p. 1498. and many other opinions which most Protestants no way allow And lastly I shall run your pedegree to the radix and utmost Derivation that the best read Herauld in the Protestant Genealogy can run its line and that is to the Waldenses and to Berengarius who broacht his heresie in the year 1048. and he held all the points of Doctrine that we held onely he differed from us in the point of Transubstantiation And for this cause they took u Idem Catalog Test pag. 1502. him into the name and number of Protestants and Reformers nothwithstanding he presently afterwards recanted and died a Catholick So it ends where it never had beginning Finally if neither prescription of 1600 years possession and continuance of our Churches Doctrine nor our evidence out of the word of God nor the Fathers witnessings to that evidence nor the Decrees of Councels nor your own acknowledgements Be sufficient to mollifie and turne your royall heart there is no more meanes left for truth or me but I must leave it to God in whose hand are the hearts of Kings THis Paper was finished and delivered into His Majesties hands at a very unfit time either for perusall or answer being at the time when Bristoll was delivered up unto the Parliament and the Court in great distraction the King being in a study rather to know which way to goe then how to answer papers Yet His Majesty vouchsafed to run over the leaves rather then the lines with His eye and finding the Paper of some length and full of Quotations His Majesty said To answer this Paper requires a great deale of that which I want and that is time besides I perceive that to make due enquiry into these particulars it will require a great deale of search which if leisure would give leave I believe industry might find a great deale of foul play and mis-quotations Oxford would have been a fitter place for me then Ragland Castle to have entertain'd such an Incounter where the same place that is my Souldiers quarters is his Jesuites Colledge yet I pray tell him I returne his Paper to him againe and shall take another time to answer it when opportunity shall give me leave To morrow I shal ease his Lordship of a heavy burthen and this day will be time little enough for us to consider what course we are to take I prayed God to bless His Majesty in all His wayes and to direct Him in all His consultations The King having as it seem'd fixt His eye upon that place in my Lords Paper where he charged Luther for saying that he received his Doctrine from the Devil asked me what was Luthers meaning thereby or whither or no Luther said any such thing Whereunto I made answer that to my knowledge Luther had written so but I believed his meaning was as elsewhere he said Diabolus me Christianum fecit that having received many combates by the suggestions of the Devil deterring him from undertaking so great a weight as Reformation and having resisted those temptations and at last overcome them he became a better Scholler in the Schoole of Christ and Souldier in that spiritual warfare The King said Luther was a bold man and such high spirits sometimes take a pride to fight against common sence as if it were the common enemy Whereupon some of the Lords came in and I took my leave of His Majesty FINIS Errata PAge 2. lin 19. for Crown read Crosier Pag. 29. l. 8. for Aroties r. Azotus Pag. 54. l. 13. for it necessarie r. it not necessary Pag. 58. l. 23. for constitution r. contrition Pag. 64. l. 12. del two Pag. 91. l. 15. for Apostolicall r. Analogicall and l. 22. for invisibility r. visibility P. 111. l. 12. r. Audistis dictum esse antiquis Pag. 151. l. 21. for inferiour r. interiour Pag. 199. l. 18. for hiddenly r. suddenly