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A45325 Qvakers principles quaking, or, Pretended light proved darkness, and perfections found to be greatest imperfections in an answer to a written paper, subscribed with the name of Thomas Holme, and scattered through the country about Liverpool and Lancashire / modestly propounded by Ralph Hall ... Hall, Ralph. 1656 (1656) Wing H423; ESTC R39227 32,660 37

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of the anguish of his soul cursed the day of his birth c. I say after all this when Job comes to himself he cryes out against himself I abhor my self and repent in dust and ashes Job 42.6 If Job had been perfect what needed he to have repented but further we find the Apostle Paul disclaiming perfection in himself Phil. 3.12 13. Not as though I had already attained or were already perfect but I follow after c. And at vers. 14. Brethren I count not my self to have apprehended but this one thing I do forgetting those things that are behind and reach forth towards those things that are before c. And at vers. 15. Let as many as be perfect be thus minded as if the Apostle had said The highest degree of perfection that I have attained to is to be sensible of my own imperfection Secondly Hee not only disclaims perfection in himself but fully asserts that both Jew and Gentile are all under sin and there is none righteous no not one there is none that doth good no not one c. Rom. 3.9 10. See further for this Isa. 64.6 But we are all as an unclean thing and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags and we all do fade as a leaf and our iniquities like the wind hath taken us away And what more plain against your doctrine of perfection then these Scriptures But secondly I shall prove it by Argument 1 If we could attain to be absolutely perfect men and free from sin we should be freed from death if Adam had not sinned hee had not dyed In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely dye Gen. 2.17 And the wages of sin is death Rom 6.23 From whence I argue no work no wages no sin no death But it is appointed unto all men once to dye and after death to come to judgement And why so Because all have sinned Rom 5.12 As by one man sin entred into the world and death by sin and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned Sure then our perfection as well as our portion is in reversion So at vers. 5. If we have been planted together with him in the likeness of his death we shall bee also in the likeness of his resurrection Observe as we are in the one we shall be in the other 2 If we were perfectly free from sin we should be free from temporal punishments and afflictions which are the fruits and effects of sin otherwise God were unjust But the best of Gods people are daily liable to temporal afflictions therefore short of perfection 3 If we were perfect we could not sin at all But in many things wee offend all James 3.2 And if we say that we have no sin we deceive our selves and there is no truth in us 1 Joh. 1.8 4 If we were perfect here we should have the end of our hope here But if in this life onely Christians had hope they were of all men most miserable 1 Cor. 15 19. 5 And lastly If we could attain to absolute perfection here we should enjoy our glorious and eternal rest here but the Apostle was of another judgement For saith he Doubtless there remains a rest to the people of God Heb 4.9 Job likewise agrees with the Apostle Job 3.7 and that holy man of God John the Divine heard other news and that from Heaven too Rev. 14.13 I heard a voyce from heaven saying unto me Write from henceforth blessed are the dead that dye in the Lord even so saith the Spirit for they rest from their labours and their works follow them So then our rest is in heaven doubtless our perfection is not here But I remember you pleaded hard for perfection that time the Ministers gave you the meeting at the Greave-house from these two Scriptures viz. How shall I that am dead to sin live any longer therein and again As the tree falls so it lyeth from whence you truly inferred that as Death leaves a man Judgement is sure to finde him both which are the truths of God being rightly understood As to the first of these viz. How shall I that am dead to sin live any longer therein it is true I cannot so as to make it my trade and living nor yet so as to live in the least known sin with allowance of my self therein nor yet as the Scripture phrase is to tumble and wallow therein as the Sow that is washed doth in the mire But hence to assert that he that is dead to sin is freed from sin will not follow for God knows many are the secret sins of the best of Gods people and therefore David a man after Gods own heart crys out unto the Lord Lord cleanse me from my secret sin and not only so but hee prays earnestly that God would keep him that presumptuous sins might not prevail over him Psal. 19.13 sure I am David was sensible of his own imperfection But Secondly As the Tree falls so it lyes or As Death leaves us Judgement is sure to finde us For that man or woman that doth not here in this life by faith make good his proprietie and interest in the Lord Jesus Christ shall never have benefit by him in the Life to come for saith he He that beleeveth on me hath eternal life but he that beleeveth not is condemned already Joh. 3.16 18. I freely acknowledge living and dying in unbeleef renders a man truly miserable for as there is no praising of God in the Grave so there is no actings of faith there but As the tree falls so it lyes but it follows not hence that we are perfect here unless it be by faith in the Son of God and in that sence I shall be of your judgement for all Gods people as well as Job do know that their Redeemer liveth and that they shall see him at the last day not with other but their own eyes and indeed Christ is perfection it self I have only Three things more to admonish you of else I shall fall too short of a full answer to your Paper First one is concerning that Law that you say is written in mens hearts by which only they are to be guided Secondly Concerning that light you say is within a man to which only he is to look and Thirdly Concerning your rayling reviling and unchristian Language that you ordinarily put forth in both your speakings and writings I am resolved to clear my self in the sight of God of all malice and envie in what I shall say to these and what I do speak to speak in faithfulness And first The Law written in mens hearts it must needs be either First the Law of God or Secondly The Law of Nature or Thirdly No Law at all but a delusion of Sathan I shall be farre from judging any of you and as free in desiring you to judge your selves that you be not judged of the Lord Mistake me not I know all men and women shall
monstrous men in India Non loquntur sed latrant they do not speak but bark by positive Assertions reproachful Epithites rayling Speeches conquering the modest and civil and indeed by their black mouthes become like the Basilisk killing the Birds of the Air in their very flight by their very breath for if once reason begin to traverse their black Indictments thou art Carnal Antichristian Devils and the like must stay the Process and confirm the sentence Many ways I might manifest the darkness of their pretended light but I must not now stand on an History of them but leave them to the view of their carriage the witness of such who have been seduced by them and the writings of such as have withstood them amongst which I here commend to thee this small Tract written in a plain simple and rustick stile like unto its Author a plain simple country-man in a private Calling possessing an honest heart and publick spirit filled with zeal to plead the Cause of Truth to his power and to prevent his Country-men and Neighbours from being seduced by this Fanatick Generation and following a plain Ignis fatuus into a wilde Wilderness of pretended light within only before I part with thee give me leave to prescribe to thee these few Rules for thy preservation 1 Set Reason in its Throne I mean not reasons Dictates which yet as thou art a man thou must observe and follow though they are too short to guide thee to Heaven but the rational faculty and power of discerning discoursing and determining things which God and Nature hath given thee for observe the Devil blindes this Eye and dethrones this Judge when he advanceth this pretended light when you are mad you may be brought to any thing 2 Stick close to Scripture as the Light unto thy feet and Lanthorn to thy paths by this the light exhibited by Christ and his Apostles was manifested and by this the Spirit of Light will be judged whilst Reason doth sit Judge see that it sentence by the Law of Scripture therefore in the right use of Scripture see that thou do own and embrace First Scripture sentences not words this sort of men do speak words and but words leaving sentences and so making the Word of God of none effect Secondly Sense of Scripture not meerly sentence the sentence may be figurative and to be understood otherwise than the words do simply shew as This is my Body and other like expressions do evidence Thirdly Sense rationally inferred as well as positively asserted reasoning from the Scripture is suitable to an enlightned rational being Fourthly Sense plainly flowing from the scope and circumstances of the text not strained by allusion unto Allegories and the like 3 State to the Soul standing Principles of Christianity see some things to be true and out of all controversie not to be admitted to debate but retained with all resolution against all temptation know that a Sceptick is a Quakers Gentleman-usher 4 Shun their Society especially solemn Assemblies how shouldest thou chuse but learn a lesson in the Devils School if thither thou resort day by day if their air bee infectious and Inchantments only Spiritual which on good ground and I beleeve experience too are found to bee natural canst thou accompany with them without danger it was once the Churchesery Cant. 1.7 Why should I turn aside by the flocks of thy companions 5 Sue by fervent prayer for the spirit of a sound mind now that thou art faln into a fanatique age prize the many helps thou hast to keep thee in thy wits and know that spirit of sobriety is the blessing of God but thereby effected in special use this Tract unto its especial end and that thou by it and helps of the like nature may be delivered from the error of the wicked is and shall be the constant prayer of Thine in and for the truth of the Gospel Zach. Crofton April 17. 1656. THE QUAKERS Paper truly copied out as it was by them written and sent to the Ministers and People in and about Walton and Liverpool To which the following Treatise is an Answer To the Priests and people of Walton and Liverpool and thereabouts FOr as much as there was a Dispute at the Greave-house near Walton betwixt the people called Quakers and the aforesaid Priests before mentioned In which Dispute the Priests was to prove the lawfulness of receiving of Tythes which by Scripture they could not do but one Scripture they brought in for their own ends which makes nothing for their purpose in Luke 11.42 to prove the receiving of Tythes for this was before he was sacrificed up when he said Woe unto ye Pharisees for ye tythe Mint and Rue and all manner of Herbs and pass over judgement and the love of God These ought yee to have done and not to leave the other undone Now let all people who have any understanding consider and see whether this be any ground or command for the Priests to take Tythes of the people after his being sacrificed up for he said These ought ye to have done but he gave no commandement to continue in them for he was the end of the Priesthood and the end of the Law by which the Priests took Tythes for the Priesthood being changed there was of necessity a change of the Law and a disanulling of the Commandement going before as Heb. 7.12.18 But in the time of the Law they was to take Tythes of the people according to the Law Heb. 7.5 and those that did not bring their Tythes into the Store-house whilst that Law and Commandement was of force robbed God Mal. 3.8.10 And the Lord commanded that all the Tythes should be brought of the increase and laid up and the Levite because he had no part nor inheritance with the people and the stranger and the fatherless and the widows should come and eat and be satisfied Deut. 14.28 29. And this was in the first Priesthood and before Jesus Christ was sacrificed up the unchangeable Priesthood Heb. 8.1 The everlasting Treasure Col. 2.3 In whom dwells all fulness vers. 9. Who hath blotted out the hand-writing of Ordinances and took it out of the way and nayled them to the Cross triumphing over them vers. 14 15. Then the Apostle denied all Ordinances that were hand written and said the Law was changed and the Priesthood was changed Heb. 7.12 and the Commandement disanulled so the Law now being changed by which the Priesthood was made and the Commandement disanulled by which they took Tythes of the people of God himself and the hand-writing of Ordinances blotted out therefore who art thou O man that goeth about to build again set up allow write for and uphold that which God put down disanulled and blotted out and nayled to the Cross Gods enemy thou art whoever thou bee for the earth is the Lords and the fulness thereof Psal. 24.1 And all are commanded to honour God with their substance who are his Stewards
cups and vessels c. These are all taken away in respect of the manner of them but the substance and equity of these yet remain Wash thy heart O Jerusalem how long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee Jer. 4.14 and Isa. 1.16 And our Saviour taking notice of the strictness of the Pharisees about these washings saith Ye make clean the out side of the cup and platter but the inside is full of filthiness and uncleanness Mat. 23.25 26. And so David I will wash my hands in innocency so will I compass thine Altar O Lord Psal. 26.6 By all which Scriptures we see that the summe and substance of all the Law even of the Ceremonial part it self remains unchangeable though the manner of Administration be not onely changed but disanulled and taken out of the way as the lesser light to wit of a Candle is swallowed up of the greater light to wit the Sun Thus we see how the Priests work is changed viz. in point of Administration onely and so the Priests are changed in point of their Administration-work but in respect of the order of the Priesthood it is not changed For Christ is a Priest for ever after the Order of Melchisedeck so that from everlasting to everlasting the Priesthood in point of substance is one and the same for ever I might instance in the Sacraments of old under the Law and make it out that the summe and substance of them not only remain the same but are more lively held forth in those two Sacraments that Christ hath instituted and left to continue in his Church to his second coming 1 Cor. 11.26 Mat. 28.19 20. And what is held forth in the Gospel Israel had under the Law though more obscurely held forth Yet they did all eat the same spiritual meat and did all drink of the same spiritual drink for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them which Rock is Christ 1 Cor. 10.2 3 4. And Christ saith of Abraham That he rejoyced to see Christs day he saw it and was glad Joh. 8.56 But you say further the Commandement is disanulled I shall say so too if you mean the rigor and curse of it in relation to the Covenant of Works so as that it is not now Do this and live in the same circumstantial manner as it was under the Law but the equity summe and substance remains to this day viz. In manifesting our obedience to the Gospel of Christ as before to the Law of God not as I said even now in the same circumstantial manner but in another equivalent to it viz. in repentance faith love and new obedience without which no salvation and in truth when I seriously consider the Law and Gospel I find the Law to be nothing else but Gospel foretold and the Gospel nothing else but the Law fulfilled where lyes now the disanulling of the Commandement except in the sence before mentioned for as to the total annihilating disanulling or destroying the Law our Saviour disclaims it in his own words I came not to destroy but to fulfil the Law Matth 5.17 And the Apostle Paul having spoken largely to these forementioned distinctions lest any should as you seem to do mistake him and from his own words utterly abrogate and make void and useless the Law he saith in plain words Do wee then destroy the Law God forbid we rather establish the Law Rom. 3.31 And in truth I find our blessed Lord and Saviour so far from destroying the moral Law that he rather sets a sharper edge upon it and makes it of greater force and more binding in reference to the strict observance of it for saith he It hath been said of old Matth. 5.27.28 thou shalt not commit adultery but I say unto you he that shall look upon a woman so as to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart And whereas Moses suffered the putting away of wives upon dislikes and disagreements Christ tells us If any man put away his wife for any cause save for the cause and in the case of Fornication hath broken the Law and he that shall marry her that is divorced committed Adultery Mat. 5.32 And though these things and others of the like nature were not so expresly set down in the Moral Law yet they were fully included in the Commandement by all which we plainly see the harmony and agreement between Law and Gospel And thus having briefly yet plainly explained wherein the Law and Priesthood is changed and the Commandement disanulled I proceed to the great question in controversie viz. concerning the lawfulness or unlawfulness of giving and receiving Tythes and that as briefly and plainly as I can Now as we have seen the equity of the Law of God held forth in the Gospel in some cases so we may if we will see it held forth in this very case of Tythes 1 Cor. 9.14 Even so hath the Lord ordained That they that preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel I would gladly have any of you to shew me where and when this Ordination of God by the Apostle here cited was made manifest I know you could if you would but in regard you cast off the Law as useless I pray you see how you differ from the mind of the Apostle you need not to go far for this only cast your eye upon the 9. vers. of the forecited Chapter and you shall see It is written saith the Apostle in the Law of Moses and here at this 14. vers. Even so hath the Lord ordained as if the Spirit of God foreseeing such a generation of men as you are going about to rent and tear one part of the word of God from another he here joyns them in such an inseparable bond as the whole world is never able to unloose and not only so but draws all that is necessary to be received of us in point of comfortable maintenance of the Ministry into an intire doctrinal conclusion viz. That those that preach the Gospel should live of it is Gods own Ordinance and this he proves by Scripture from the 25. of Deut. 4. and having thus proved it by Scripture he argues it from several reasons drawn first from the equity of it vers. 7. Who goeth a warfare at any time at his own charges who planteth a vineyard and eateth not of the fruit thereof or who feedeth a flock and eateth not of the milk of the flock But further If we have sown unto you spiritual things is it a great matter if we reap your carnal things vers. 11. Again do we not know That they that Minister about holy things live of the things of the Temple and they that wait at the Altar are partakers with the Altar vers. 13. But you may perhaps say This was so in the time of the Law but ought it so to be now yea saith the Apostle Even so hath the Lord ordained that they that preach the Gospel should live of the