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A41594 A discourse of the use of images in relation to the Church of England and the Church of Rome in vindication of Nubes testium against a pamphlet entitled The antiquity of the Protestant religion concerning images, directed against some leaves of that collection. Gother, John, d. 1704. 1687 (1687) Wing G1328; ESTC R15744 20,616 40

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term'd a Worship Bowing in Reverence to the Name of Jesus may be styl'd a Worship And in this Sense 't will not only be laid to the Church of England's charge that she teaches and approves Image-Worship but likewise Bread Worship Book-Worship Table-Worship and Name-Worship And 't will not be very difficult by the equivocation of this word and the help of a little Pulpit-Sophistry to paint out This Church as Black with Idolatry and Superstition to the People as she has done the Church of Rome And it do's not at all reflect upon the Church of Rome or her Doctrin that some of her Divines call this Respect Honor Veneration or Worship paid to Holy Images a Religious Respect or Honor c. For this is only a Dispute about a Word and let it be call'd by what Name they please whether Honorary Religious or Divine this alters not the Nature of the thing for 't is but the same thing by whatsoever Name it be express'd If some will have every Respect or Veneration shewn to Holy Things as to the Bible the Sacrament the Name of Jesus for the Relation they have to God to be call'd a Religious Worship let 'em call it so in God's Name And if others will have no Veneration or Worship to be Religious but that which is directly and immediatly given to God let 'em have their way These are fine Notions and pretty Entertainments for School-debates but are no concern of our Religion or Conscience For as long as 't is own'd that there 's a Respect and Reverence due to such Holy things as in some particular manner have relalation to God and his Service and we only express this Respect outwardly which interiorly we feel in our Souls let this be call'd an Honor a Worship an Adoring let it be said to be Honorary Religious or Divine let it be deem'd Absolute or Relative 't is equally alike to us since we are satisfied the wrangling of the Learned about Names and Words has no influence upon the Acts of our Souls and cannot make that to be Idolatrous which in it self is not so Here then may the Reader see how stands this Controversie between Catholics and the Church of England Protestants Both Churches acknowledge that there 's an Honor and Reverence that may be lawfully given to the Holy Images and Pictures of Christ Both Churches express this Honor outwardly Protestants by using them in their Churches and Prayer-books which as Montagu says cannot be abstracted from giving them Honor and Reverence While Catholics go farther and say that 't is lawful to express this Honor and Reverence due to them as they have relation to God by Kissing them pulling off the Hat Bowing Setting of Tapers c. before them in the same manner and with no more just occasion of Scandal and no more breach of any Commandment than the Church of England do's express the Veneration She shews to the Bible in Kissing it to the Church by pulling off the Hat to the Name of Jesus by Bowing to the Communion-Table by setting Candles on it Which being so many Actions intended to signifie the Interior Sentiment and Affection of the Soul there can certainly be no more of Idolatry in them or Superstition than there is in the Intention or in the Act of the Soul the one being the same outwardly what the other is inwardly And however some Divines and Leading Men of the Church of England who are in love with wrangling and thro' the Influence of an Unchristian Temper seem to be afraid of a better Understanding coming amongst Christians take pains to blow up this Controversie with some School and Empty Notions yet 't is not to be thought there 's any great difference between the Two Churches were they to Speak their Sense in a Cool and Moderate Temper where they might be free from the Suggestions of such Hot and Fiery Spirits who seem to be rather Men of State and Policy than of Religion For can it be imagin'd that the Church of England who confesses that the Holy Ghost himself the Apostles and Primitive Christians instructed by the Apostles Honor'd the NAME of the Cross and had an Honorable Esteem for the SIGN of the Cross can be in good earnest against those who express outwardly this Honor which in it self is thus acknowledg'd of Divine Institution and to have been the Doctrin of the Apostles If the Apostles too as she owns above did honor the NAME of the Cross by their Mouths and Words can she condemn those who do the like with their Hands their Heads or Knees If it be the Doctrin of the Holy Ghost to have this Honor for the Name and Sign of the Cross in our Hearts and the Apostles by the instinct of that Holy Spirit did express this by their Words may not We do so too And if We may do this in Words may not we do it in any other way of Expressing our Sense which Nature has given us and are answerable to Words Words are nothing more than for their Signification and if we signifie our thoughts by any other way as by Signs by any Motion or Gesture of our Body these Actions being to express the same affection of our Soul which we other ways do by Words they are as Innocent as our Words and 't is impossible the Actions should be Idolatrous whilst the Words are Orthodox Since being taught by the Apostles to have an Honor in our Hearts for the SIGN of the Cross 't is the same thing before God and Men whether we signifie this outwardly by our Tongues or by our Lips or by our Hands or by our Heads or by our Knees these being only so many different kinds of Speaking to signifie one and the same sense of our hearts And whilst they are so there can be nothing justly charg'd upon any one of these ways of Expressing but will as certainly fall upon all the rest for they being all upon the same intention and design of shewing outwardly the Honor we are taught by the Apostles to have in our hearts and this Honor thus severally express'd being but one and the same founded upon the Relation the Sign of the Cross has to Christ if it be a Religious Worship when 't is signified by the Knee 't is Religious too when signified by the Tongue and alike Religious whilst 't is in the Heart if it be Idolatrous to express it by the Knee in bending 't is Idolatrous too to express it with the Tongue in Words and most of all Idolatrous as it is in the Heart Upon this Point turns the Greatest part of this Controversie which of it self is very inconsiderable But our Answerer takes little care to see how the Question stands He 's for exposing the Church of Rome and as long as he has the knack of doing this by Ridiculing and Drolling what should he trouble himself with such impertinencies as are stating the Question and speaking to the Point He 's
satisfied the word Image-worship will do the work without much need of longer Proofs and therefore waving all such kind of Controversial Drudgery he falls to the Historical part in which from the different account of Historians the disagreement in Time and Place and other Circumstances he easily fills all with Confusion and Uncertainty A tedious work he makes about the second Council of Nice and sets it out in such abusive Language with so much contempt and scorn that he seems at his writing this Character to have come fresh from a Billings-gate Lecture Hear how he attacks that Venerable Synod They were a Pack of Greeks says he pa. 38. that were neither the wisest nor the honestest Men in the World. Then having undervalued the Proofs of that Council as Senseless and Ridiculous he adds pa. 39. Now you may judge whether these were not rare Greek Wits Yet we might forgive their want of Brains if they had been Men of Integrity but they were dishonest too In this manner do's he complement this great Synod with the Honorable Titles of Fools and Knaves Certainly he must be a wise Man in his own conceit who makes so bold with three hundred and fifty Fathers besides the Popes Legates and the Vicars of the Oriental Patriarchs But I leave him in this Buffoonry wishing him only much joy of his Admirable Talent in this kind The Chief thing he urges against this Council is their establishing as he pretends Superstitious Errors the Worship or Adoration of Images such as our Author judges to be nothing else than Idolatry in this doing altogether like himself who quarrels with every thing but how unlike the more Learned and Moderate Divines of his own Church who vindicate this Council from all such imputations Mr. Thorndike freely confessing that he must maintain as unquestionable that the Council of Nice injoyns no Idolatry Epil 3. pa. 363. And Dr. Field affirming that the Nicence Fathers mean nothing else by Adoration of Images but embracing kissing and reverently using of them and like to the Honor we do the Books of Holy Scripture Of the Church l. 3. c. 36. Thus do these Eminent Men deliver their Sense of this Council and it's Doctrin which our Author has thought fit to render so Ridiculous to the World. He catches at Words and without Examining or Understanding them makes Idolatry and Superstition of the most Orthodox and Christian Doctrin And this I look upon the occasion of his letting flie so furiously at this Venerable Synod and of all his Rallery against it But I proceed to consider his other Arguments The principal thing he insists on and which runs thro' his whole Pamphlet is that we cannot make it appear even as a thing probable that Images were so much as set up in Churches in the Primitive Times and upon this Practice now so common in the Church of Rome he presses her with the Guilt of Innovation An Excellent Argument well becoming a Leader of the People But this is the Motive of Reforming And do not some other Reformers upon the same grounds prove the use of Organs in the Divine Service to be an Innovation since it cannot be made appear even as probable that there were any such things known to the Primitive Christians of the first three or four hundred years And do not others still treading over the same steps make the use of Cathedrals and Churches of Deanries and Prebendaries an Innovation in Christianity since in the Primitive times there were no such things heard ●f After this rate some Men are pleas'd to argue and at this pace the Reformation may go on improving every day till there 's nothing of Christianity left if such Principles and Reasons of some Church of England Reformers are but follow'd as Just and Convincing But these can have no authority but with some Weak and Passionate Men. Others who weigh things duely know that the Circumstances of the Primitive Christians their being under Severe Persecution their living and conversing in the middle of Pagans and Jews c. did make many things inconvenient and unseasonable at that time especially such as related to the Solemnity and Order of the Church which otherwise were Good and Apostolical This Mr. Montagu a Wise and Learned Man throughly consider'd and particularly in relation to Images which he says in the first Ages were but few or none in publick not because they were then Unlawful or contrary to the Doctrin of the Apostles but because they were inconvenient in those times of Persecution and Paganism I 'll here set down his own words to satisfie the Answerer and to let him see the difference between the Spirit of Peace and Moderation and that of Bitterness and Wrangling Thus then that Worthy Divine argues in his Appeal to Caesar c. 23. As the Ancient Fathers of the Primitive Times had very few or no Churches at all at least of Note Dignity or of Receipt because they liv'd in Times of fierce Persecution and were seldom or Few of them Stationary but compell'd subinde mutare sedes so had they very few I grant or no Pictures at all in public use amongst them not so much as for Ornament sake And the reason was because they lived continually amongst Pagans and were themselves for the most part such as had abandon'd and come over from Paganism unto Christ that were bred in brought up in inur'd to and fast setled unto Idolatry in Image-worship Therefore they spoke against them with some tartness and inveighing sort lest haply by conversing with or neighboring upon Pagans or thro' former use of being mis-led by those Pagans the Novel and tender Shoots of Christianity might receive hurt and learn to worship Idols as those Pagans did In which words this Author plainly declares that tho' there was not the public use of Images in the first Ages yet the admittance of them afterwards into Churches was no Innovation as our Answerer pretends but the practising of a thing which in all the precedent Ages had been just and lawful but not expedient for the reasons here assign'd by him Which thing the same Author has thus clearly deliver'd in the foregoing Chapter where speaking of the use of Images Before St. Gregory says he I know no such confest employment for them He was the first that gave such public approbation unto them DECLARATORILY tho' it was TRVE DOCTRIN IN IT SELF before he ever profess'd it such Can any thing be more clearly express'd Is it not evidently here acknowledg●d by a Church of England Divine that the Use of Images as approv'd and allow'd by Pope Gregory who was for giving Reverence and Respect unto them as this Author confesses in the same Chapter was a True Doctrin in it self tho' it was never professedly declar'd before this time And yet our Answerer unacquainted it seems with the Doctrin of his own Church and with the Circumstances of the Primitive Church comes here with the full Cry of Innovation