their coniecturall opinion Howbeit for a further declaration heereof I do answer with Gregorie Beda Damascene the Schoolemen and others who doe all iointly affirme that euen as the knowledge of spirits and diuels in comparison of our knowledge is verie excellent and woonderfull large although yet in comparison of God the same is but shallow and shorte so surely those the supposed bodies of spirites and diuels in comparison of our earthly and palpable bodies may fitlie be saide to be spirituall whereas yet in comparison of the omnisufficient and incircumscriptible spirit of spirites they may after a sort be saide to be corporall And this our censure concerning corporall spirites being rightly vnderstood as it ought to be that is being graunted comparatiuely may very well stande with the truth For certeine it is that Angels are not spirites purely simple as God is most simple neither are they infinite and incircumscriptible spirits as God alone is but are marshalled within their proper dimensions and bounds All which being graunted it doth not thereupon necessarily folow that therefore Angels they are not created incorporall finite spirits and such as after their manner are limitted definitiuely within their proper dimensions but this rather folowes thereof namely that therefore spirits and diuels they are not most simple most infinite illocal nor omnipotent powers For the specialls do alwaies retaine the common nature of their generall and therein they fitly accord howsoeuer by reason of some repugnant formes they doe otherwaies dissent among themselues And thus your Fathers you see both old and new they are fully answered concerning their supposed mannaging of this your opinion of corporal spirits or diuels Philologus Are you able Lycanthropus to reply to his answere Lycanthropus I am vtterly vnable But sir sith you so confidently do hold that spirits and diuels are incorporall let vs heare your reasons and authorities concerning this point Orthodoxus With very good will my reasons are these First spirits and diuels haue not flesh and bones saith Christ as you see me to haue Wherein it is very apparant that there is one substance of humane bodies and another of spiritual powers Spirits they haue neither flesh nor bones therefore they cannot be comprehended with the sight of the eie nor handled by the sense of feeling both which are proper to the sensible perceiuing of humane bodies Againe the Lord saith the Apostle hath made his spirits his messengers and his ministers a flame of fier The which place albeit Dauid doth properly vnderstand of the operation of winds yet for as much as the Apostle applieth the same to the Angels it is not to be doubted at all but as the name Spirit so likewise a spirituall essence appertaineth vnto them Againe we read that a legion of diuels namely sixe thousand sixe hundred sixtie and sixe possessed the man in the Gospell whom Christ deliuered But if diuels be corporall substances and doe essentially enter into the bodie of man it is vtterly impossible that there should so many be crouded together and all contained at once within the narrow corners of an humane bodie Exorcistes Some doe hold there was in deed but one onely diuell in the possessed whose name was Legion Orthodoxus As though it were possible that one onely diuell could be really inherent in two seuerall persons at once Besides that it is verie apparant in Marke and in Luke that there was not one but many diuels yea and Mathew also exchanging the name of one into many he saith the diuels besought Christ that they might goe into the heard of swine Exorcistes Sir I onely haue shewed you what some others doe hold but proceed in your purpose Orthodoxus I proceed thus The spirits or soules of men are incorporall therefore spirits and diuels are also incorporall For if the reasonable soule or spirit of a man be not corporall in any respect I meane if it be neither solide nor palpable as are the earthie and terrestriall bodies neither yet subtile or slender as are the airie and celestiall bodies then without doubt spirits and diuels they are likewise incorporall because they also are spirits For the nature and definitions of a spirit and a bodie do altogither and in euery respect differ betweene themselues And thus besides those Philosophicall reasons which Physiologus propounded before you haue hetherto heard from the Scriptures such seuerall arguments as doe verie plainely conclude the non being of corporall spirites or diuels Pneumatomachus Beleeue me Lycanthropus before we began this our conference I doubted greatly of the essentiall being of spirits and diuels Howbeit now I am cleere in that point and by this discourse doe farther perceiue them to be admirable and woonderfull powers Lycanthropus Verie true as you saie But sir let vs heare I beseech you your authorities also concerning this point Orthodoxus With verie good will Wherein I assure you that this our opinion concerning incorporall spirits and diuels is generallie receiued in the church of God approoued by the consent of many Diuines and confirmed fully from the Laterane Councel Lycanthropus For the generall receite thereof in the Church I make little doubt but let vs heare now your seuerall authorities Orthodoxus Content First Dionysius writeth thus Wee account not saith he the celestiall and deified powers or spirits to consist of innumerable feete or to haue a manifold countenance neither yet to be like vnto liuing and corporall creatures albeit the sacred Scriptures in speaking of them doe vse these Poeticall and fained formes Chrysostome he saith the Seraphimes are called spirits that is incorporall and supernaturall powers And a little after he saith they be called fierie or flaming creatures because their substance is most pure Augustine be defineth them thus Angels and diuels are spirituall powers incorporall substances inuisible insensible reasonable intellectuall and immortall the good ones they are shining and impassible the euill ones blacke and passible Theodoret he saith that God created the vniuersall nature of incorporall substances constituting decreeing and ordeining their said nature to be intellectuall and also immortall Andreas of Ierusalem he saith that Angels and spirites are all without their bodies Gregorie also he saith in like sort that spirits and diuels they haue no flesh Isidore he saith that Angels and diuels according to their nature are called spirits Damascene he saith that Angels and spirits are intellectuall substances euermore mooueable and free by the arbiterment of their proper power incorporall the ministers of God obtaining immortalitie by grace not by nature the portraiture bounds of whose substantiall being onely the creatour of spirites he knoweth himselfe Carolus magnus he saith the essentiall substance of Angels and diuels is immortall because they be spirits by nature Vigerius Saonensis he saith that Angels are all of them spirituall substances without any bodies at all consisting of vnderstanding and will and
imagined may do can conclude no certeintie of doing at all Neither do we dispute what the diuell either may or is able to doe but what in deed and in truth he doth truelie accomplish Howbeit to vse fewe words in a long matter and plaine termes in a doubtfull case this I auouch for truth that the diuell neither can contract nor possibly may diminish his substantiall being at all For as he is a spirituall creature created for vengeance so hath he for that selfesame respect an essence and forme especially proper vnto himselfe alone yea and the same so peculiarly appointed vnto him as he himselfe cannot possibly augment diminish or any waies alter the same but must needs be contented therewith as with that which the onely wise God hath in wisedome especially ordeined and assigned vnto him yea euen as peculiarly as he hath appointed to euery of vs our proper substances without any power at all to alter the same Lycanthropus Tush let mans mind be what may be whether bigger or lesse in proportion then the spirite of the diuel I passe not a pinne this I constantlie hold that the same is the verie receptacle or place of abode for the diuel during al the whole time of his real possession Physiologus Sith you wil needes haue mans mind the verie habitacle or place for the diuel his real possession go to then tel me what kind of place you hold it to be Whether do you take it to be a common or proper place Lycanthropus What meane you by a common place Physiologus That wherein manie substances are or may be at one and the selfesame time Such as is the heauen the earth a temple an house and such like al which may truelie be saied to be common places for that manie substances may ioyntlie be placed in them al at once As for example Some thing may truely be said to be conteined within the celestiall firmament because it is in the fier in the fier because it is in the ayre and in the ayre also because it is in the earth For al and euerie of these at one and the selfesame time are ioyntlie comprehended with in the firmament or cope of heauen Lycanthropus Then I doe hold mans mind for no common but the diuel his peculiar place of abode for the present Physiologus If you hold mans mind for the diuel his peculiar place then must his said mind be able absolutelie and fully to circumscribe the diuel his essential being For a place is the circumscription of an essential substance And by this you may plainelie perceiue how at vnwares you are grosely ouertakē with that palpable absurditie which Phylologus not long since enforced vpon you Namelie that the mind of man it being as you falslie suppose the peculiar place of the diuel must necessarilie if so we may speake be larger in muchnes and proportion then the spirite of the diuel For howsoeuer neither spirites nor diuels they being no corporal substances stretched out by Dimensions or by anie massie huge matter may truely be said to be in a place commensuratiuelie or dimensiuelie notwithstanding al this both spirites and diuels they being finite and circumscriptible substances may truelie be said to be in a place definitiuelie or determinatelie Spirites therefore and diuels being as your selfe doth suppose definitiuelie though not dimensiuelie in the possessed mans mind his said mind concerning the essential being thereof must determinately and definitiuely exceede in proportion and muchnes the spirit of the diuell Howbeit sith in anie case you will needes make the possessed mans mind the peculiar place of the diuel for the present do tel me I pray you Whether you accompt his said mind to be a verie corporal or onelie an imaginarie place Lycanthropus Euen a verie corporal place for the present Physiologus If you accompt the possessed mans mind a verie corporal place of the diuel the diuel then him selfe he must needes be a moueable bodie because a corporal place is that wherein a moueable bodie both moueth and ceaseth to moue Howbeit the diuel you haue heard he is onelie a spiritual essence and no moueable body and therfore it is very absurde you should affirme the possessed mans mind to be a corporal place for the diuel And that which is much more absurd the possessed mans mind it selfe it being properlie in perpetual motion should by this meanes be made also an immoueable bodie sith it is one special condition of a corporal place to be of it selfe immoueable Because a corporal place is none other thing els but the interiour superficies of a bodie contayning the thing placed therein and the superficies is onelie an accident in the predicament of quantitie Howbeit accidents we know they are not moued of them selues or by their proper motion but onlie by accident I meane by the motion of some other namely by that selfesame subiected moueable bodie whereunto it is peculiarly and properly inherent Otherwaies if a corporall place should by any locall motion be mooued of it selfe then of that selfesame mooueable place there must needs be another place because whatsoeuer is mooued of it selfe the same is mooued in a place And so by consequence there would be a progresse in endlesnes which thing euen nature it selfe doth abhorre By all the premises then you may plainely perceiue how grosse and absurd a thing it is for your selfe to auouch that the possessed mans mind should be for the present the corporall place of the diuel and therefore you are necessarily enforced to make it an imaginarie place or no place at all Lycanthropus What meane you by an imaginarie place Physiologus That selfe same receptacle wherein any thing is vnderstood to be imaginarily or spiritually and not dimensiuely or corporally As for example Angels spirits diuels soules seperate from bodies as also immateriall accidents all these we imagine to be in a place whereas yet they occupie no corporall place neither doe they supplie or fulfill any place at all Lycanthropus An imaginarie place then I perceiue by your speech is in deed and in truth no place at all Nay sir I may at no hande auouch the possessed mans minde to be but an imaginarie place of the diuell for so should I vtterly ouerthrow his reall and substantiall being in man Physiologus And yet euen such a place you must assigne him you see concerning his reall possession in man or no place at all For besides those corporall places which we handled euen now there is ordinarilie and naturally no place to be found Lycanthropus Why then do the scriptures auouch in plaine termes that the diuell entreth and dwelleth in man if he haue in man no substantiall or reall possession Physiologus The meaning of those termes woulde be easily vnderstood if you were once throughly acquainted with that ordinarie doctrine which respecteth those three maner of waies whereby any thing is saide to be in a place Lycanthropus
his preposterous actions Physiologus Preposterous actions indeed for the diuell to appropriate to himselfe the peculiar organon of the possessed mans soule Do you imagine the Lord euer propounded any such end to himselfe in the creation of bodies Or do you suppose the Lord euer granted so large a commission or that the diuell himselfe euer receiued such an absolute power concerning the bodies of men But go to what becomes of the soule or spirit all the while the diuell himselfe is really inherent in the possessed mans bodie Remaines the soule still in that bodie as in her proper habitation appointed of God till the day of her vtter dissolution by death Or is it for the whole time of the diuell his being in that bodie vtterly exiled thrust out from the same Lycanthropus Naie the soule is not euen then secluded or shut out from the bodie at al but continueth and lieth therein like a subdued prisoner fast bound hand and foote yeelding ouer to the diuel for that present his whole interest concerning the bodie and endureth perforce his inexorable and tyrannous crueltie Physiologus But tell me I pray you is not the soule or the minde of a man an incorporall substance or a spirit equally diffused and spred throughout the whole bodie and euerie part thereof according to powers and proportion not Arithmeticall but Geometricall so as all the members of the bodie it selfe doth effectually fulfill their peculiar offices accordingly They being the proper instruments of that selfesame minde or spirituall substance furdering freely the organicall operation thereof and excecuting readily whatsoeuer the minde shall giue them in charge And that therefore this selfesame bodie being thus vtterly depriued as you say for the present of the soules organicall operation is in effect but dead to the soule because wheresoeuer is an vtter priuation of the soules operations concerning the bodie there the life of that man is for the present dissolued Hold you all this for a truth Lycanthropus Yea I may not denie any part thereof Physiologus Seeing then you doe flatly conclude that the minde or spirit of man is the first substantiall forme or action in a liuing bodie and the originall or primarie cause of all effects whatsoeuer performed duly therein as being that onlie whereby we doe liue perceiue desire are moued in place and doe also vnderstand how is it possible that the soule or mind of a man being naturally in perpetuall motion should at any time lie idle in her bodie it being the proper Organon of the soule peculiarly appointed vnto it by God yea euen vnto the very dissolution thereof Or how should the said soule or minde lie bound like a prisoner in her proper bodie and not execute effectually those selfesame operations and powers which are peculiarly appropriated vnto it for the special seruice of that selfesame bodie Lycanthropus What meane you by the proper operations of the soule or minde Physiologus I vnderstand thereby all those peculiar actions which doe necessarily succeede the powers of the minde as proper effects peculiarly appertaining vnto it Otherwaies this peculiar power of the minde it being a meane betweene the substance and operations of the minde are the only efficient cause of the said mindes operations should be vtterly in vaine and to no purpose at all vnles the peculiar effects of that selfesame power did vndoubtedly and immediatly succeede the same Howbeit these selfesame effects cannot possibly succeed the saide power of the minde so long at the least as the Diuel himselfe really possessing the bodie doth wholy and absolutely take vp the said bodie with the members thereof to accomplish his mischieuous purposes As for example all the operations of the minde are either organical or animal The organical operations they are those seuerall actions which the minde can in no wise accomplish but in the bodie it selfe and by all the seuerall members thereof as by the proper instruments for that purpose peculiarly appointed vnto it Namely the nutritiue augmentatiue and generatiue operations appertaining especially to the vegetatiue life also the facultie of seeing hearing tasting smelling handling and of common sense moreouer the imaginatiue the memoratiue the concupiscible irascible and motiue faculties being all attendant vpon the sensitiue life Now then these and euerie of these are the organical operations of the minde yea and such also as the minde cannot possibly effect but in her owne bodie and by all the partes thereof as by the peculiar instruments appointed of God And therefore how should the possessed mans minde his bodie it selfe being thoroughly surprised and taken vp as you say by the Diuel at any hand accomplish either all or any one of these organical operations Lycanthropus As the minde her selfe cannot but be in perpetuall motion so surely being forcibly restrained from these her organical operations she must for the present be faine to put in execution and to practise as she may her animal operations Physiologus The animal operations they are such speciall actions as the minde of it selfe both can and may effectually accomplish without the bodie namely those three essential powers of the reasonable soule called the vnderstanding affection and will Whereof the two last are fitly termed the intellectiue appetite whereas the organical affections arising only from out of the hart the lyuer and entralles are called the sensitiue appetite But for as much as these animal operations all the while the minde it selfe is seated in her proper bodie are by the order of God appointed to be the directours and moderatours of all the organical operations I aske you by what meanes the mind may accomplish her appointed dutie concerning the direction and moderation of those her organical actions so long as the Diuel himselfe doth really and wholy take vp the said bodie with her seuerall partes to become the vnhappie instruments of his Diuellish attempts Lycanthropus I see no possible helpe but that the minde it selfe must giue place to the Diuel for a time Physiologus Giue place for a time for how long I beseech you Put case this man be really possest of the diuell for seuen yeeres togither or more and that in the meane time he should die before the diuell be dispossest of his bodie which for any thing knowne to the diuell he may very well do for his daies are determined which he cannot possiblie passe Now then the soule it selfe being surprized by death and so seperate from the bodie it selfe before she recouer her pristinate power concerning the saide bodie or any the organicall actions appertaining vnto it to whom must those the disordered actions wrought in the bodie all the whole time of the diuell his reall possession therein be imputed I pray you Whether to the possessed mans minde or to the diuell himselfe that possesseth his bodie And whether of both must yeeld an account vnto God for those seuerall actions of the sinfull bodie Lycanthropus The verie soule it selfe is answerable
I take it for those sinfull actions Physiologus But seeing sinne it selfe is onely a voluntarie transgression of the law of God how holdes it with equitie that the soule should be answerable for those selfesame organicall actions which she did neuer voluntarily assent vnto accomplish affect or approoue Lycanthropus Because the animall operations of the soule they being appointed by God to direct and to moderate the organicall operations of the bodie did faile in doing that dutie Physiologus How should shee possiblie accomplish that her appointed dutie concerning the direction and moderation of those organicall operations shee being before verie violently and absolutely dispossessed of the bodie it selfe by whom those organicall actions should haue beene wrought according to her proper and onely directions Besides that the peculiar actions of the vnderstanding affection and will are meere animall respecting either the minde it selfe or the minde and bodie togither Touching the minde it selfe her animall operations are onely to vnderstand to affect and to will These animall operations they are such as the minde her-selfe both may and doth effectually accomplish without the bodie and being quite seperate from it And also she hath her animall motions whereby she is locally mooued without the bodie and being quite seperate from it For so the soule of Lazarus his bodie being dead fower daies in the graue did locally mooue and returne yea by such a non organicall or animall motion the verie soules of the saued damned are at this present continually moued The animal operations respecting the minde and bodie togither they are the dutifull applying of the vnderstanding affection and will to an orderly direction and circumspect moderation of al the organical actions To the timely discharge of which duty the minde especially is bound so long as she is naturally inherent or peculiarly predominant ouer the bodie Else she is freely exempt from all charge of the bodie and hath then her animall operations wherein her office doth wholie and onely consist And euen as in the minde so also in the body there be some such meere corporall actions and motions as the bodie it selfe both may and doth also accomplish without any direction or moderation of the minde As for example The dead carkasse of a man being quite seperate from the soule it hath notwithstanding her corporall dimensions figure situation and habite yea and is locally mooued either downewards by a natural motion or else vpwards or ouerthwart by a violent motion Yea and all these corporall operations and motions the bodie hath and may also accomplish by herselfe alone without any her soules direction moderation or guidance they being especially such actions and motions as appertaine not to the minde at all Now then as the soule hath some such animall operations peculiarlie appropriate to it as it may well and doth effectually accomplish without the bodie being freely seperate from it and therefore no reason the bodie it selfe should any waies be answerable for those peculiar actions of the minde whereunto she was no waies assistant so surely the bodie it hath and may haue some such corporall actions and motions peculiarly appropriated or violently enforced vpon it as it may and doth also effect without any the direction moderation or consent of the soule it being quite seperate from it or from any the directions thereof at the least and therefore it is absurd to imagine that the soule should be brought to account for any those peculiar actions or motions of the bodie which it neuer directed the bodie vnto nor neuer gaue consent to the same in any respect Lycanthropus I know not which waies to answere your speech howbeit very certaine I am the diuell hath really in man a corporall possession at least Physiologus How do you know it for certein sith the diuel is onelie a spirit of a spiritual substance simplie and absolutelie without all mixture of corporall matter and therefore he needeth no such real possession in anie mans bodie Lycanthropus He needeth no such real possession in any mans bodie I confesse in regard of his owne essential beeing Howbeit respecting more especiallie the timely execution of his tyrannicall tormenting of bodies there is necessarilie required in the parties possessed an essential possession at least Physiologus Why man as the Lord God in the verie first creation did constitute spirites and diuels essentiallie absolute in their owne proper beings without anie apparant necessitie of such an essential mixture with humane bodies so surelie you are neuer able to proue from the word that the infinite wise God did euer propound to himselfe in the creation of bodies anie one purpose at al concerning such essentiall possession of spirites and diuels Neither are you able to show by the scriptures that the diuel did euer receiue so large a commission from God concerning mens bodies For very certeine it is that the diuel did earnestlie entreate and the Lord for many respects did purposelie permit as much scope to the diuel concerning Iobs bodie as anie mans bodie besides either before him or after him and yet did the diuel neuer begge nor the Lord neuer graunt anie further power at al concerning the bodie of Iob then onelie an actual afflicting but not anie essentiall possessing at al. Besides that the whole man bodie and soule was preordained by the secret purpose of God to be for euer the liuelie image of his absolute maiestie respecting especially the perfection and holines thereof yea and which more is to be also a perpetuall habitacle and glorious temple for his sacred spirit and therefore it is incredible that the foreseeing wisedome of God would euer permit any such essentiall possession to spirites and diuels as should not onelie most beastlie pollute and deface his owne image but which more is euen reallie as it were transforme the habitation of his holie spirit into a filthie cage of vncleane spirites a most stinking stie for satan him selfe and a most horrible dungeon for damned diuels Lycanthropus Why sir this metamorphosis or change was primarilie effected in the persons of Adam and Euah who being both created according to the image of God concerning body and soule did not onelie quite loose the said image of God but which more is did presentlie put vpon them the verie image of the diuel who is called the strong armed man and they are now become that dwelling house of his which he possesseth and keepeth in peace Physiologus The image of God it was not lost in Adam and Euah as touching the essence but concerning onelie the perfection the sanctitie and holines thereof Neither did they essentiallie but onlie actuallie put vpon themselues the image of satan Neither did that strong armed man the diuel at any time essentially but onely effectively possesse or keepe them in peaceable possession as an house for himselfe And therefore either you must necessarily acknowledge the diuel to haue an essentiall possession not onelie in
essence of spirits and diuels Where I telling you that the Scriptures deliuer vnto vs not corporall but spirituall diuels that spirits and bodies are opposed the one to the other and therefore cannot possibly be one and the same thereupon we concluded that spirits and diuels are not corporall but spiritual substances all which you held then for an infallible truth Howbeit being here driuen to a straight you doe now either ignorantly forget or purposely peruert the verie truth you affirmed before For now you say plainely that diuels haue also their proper bodies peculiarly appropriated vnto them What is this else but to say and vnsay and to turne with euerie winde not vnlike to the wauering Weathercocke Lycanthropus I denied them to be corporall substances in comparison of our grosse and elementarie bodies when yet notwithstanding I doe simply hold and confidently auouch them to haue also their bodies Physiologus Make plaine your meaning and tell vs whether you hold them to haue their proper or assumed bodies Lycanthropus Euen proper and peculiar bodies created for them Physiologus Goe to then euerie created bodie is either celestial or elementarie Whether of both these thinke you is proper to Diuels Lycanthropus Surely I thinke they haue celestiall bodies Physiologus Verie well But I pray you consider this also that the diuels if they haue corporall bodies then also they haue their corporall motions Now euerie naturall motion we doe know is either circuler or elementarie The circuler motion for celestial bodies the elementarie motion for elementarie bodies Whereupon it followeth that if diuels as you say be indued with celestial bodies then also those their celestiall bodies must naturally follow the circuler motion On the other side the possessed man you know he hath an elementarie bodie and therefore his said bodie it must and will naturally follow the motion of that element whereof it doth chiefly consist Pneumatomachus What inferre you hereof I beseech you Physiologus Thus much I inferre namelie that Lycanthropus his opinion concerning the real possession of diuels doth draw after it manie grosse and palpable absurdities As for example If the diuel as you your selfe doe confidentlie hold hath a celestial bodie then how should he really and essentiallie enter into the elementarie body of an earthlie man or possibly make any personal abode in the possessed mans bellie sith the diuel hauing as you say a celestial bodie naturallie attending and folowing the circuler motion he cannot be long from that natural motion but must eftsoones mount aloft to that celestial heauen whereon his supposed bodie consists to folow his circuler motion and then what wil become I beseech you of the possessed mans bodie Againe if a spirit or diuell hauing as you hold a celestiall bodie should essentially enter into the elementarie bodie of a terrestrial man then surelie for the whole time of that real possession there must be both in the diuel and the man either no motion at al which were absurd to imagine or else in the one or in both a supernaturall motion and so by consequence that reall possession should be verie miraculous which were now in these daies of the Gospell incredible to heare For the diuell he being as you say really essentially yea and corporally also in man that man hauing an elementarie bodie which naturallie attendes the elementarie motion and the diuell he hauing a celestiall bodie which must naturally folow the circuler motion how can the bodie of man conuerse with the bodie of the diuel it following naturally the circuler motion but that selfe-same circuler motion must needes be in the possessed mans bodie a supernaturall motion Or how should the bodie of the diuell be really inherent in the possessed mans bodie and so folow therein the elementarie motion but that selfesame elementarie motion also must needes be a supernaturall motion in the diuell his bodie And so by consequence a miracle in the one or in both Againe if the diuels what bodies soeuer they haue whether celestial or elementary do as appeeres in the word mooue euery way vpward and downward on the right hand and left before and behinde vs If the diuels as the Platonists affirme can verie easely stretch out their bodies into what bignesse they please or contract them into what smalenesse they list and can varie in them as their pleasures whatsoeuer colour or figure they fansie briefly if the diuels as Psellus reporteth haue such bodies as are euery day tortured with griefes tormented with materiall fiers surely it were verie absurd to suppose that a celestiall bodie is in any sort fit for any the precedent matters but farre opposite to them and therefore much more absurd to imagine that diuels haue celestiall bodies Philologus Surely Lycanthropus if diuels be indued as you say with their peculiar bodies I would rather imagine them to haue airie then celestiall bodies because the Apostle he cals them airie spirits and as Chrysostome saith the whole aire is replenished throughout with diuels Physiologus Howsoeuer Paule or Chrysostome affirme there be diuels in the aire that doth not conclude that therefore the diuels they haue airie bodies which opinion is much more absurde then the other before For first that the diuels should haue airie bodies it is vtterly impossible Because the aire is as we commonly say a bodie of one and the selfesame kinde so as euerie part of ayre is ayre neither can any reason be rendred why this part of the ayre should be more the bodie of a diuell then another and so the whole ayre should be a continued bodie of diuels Besides that an organicall bodie consisting iointly of distinct members must haue bones synowes vaines arteries flesh and must also receiue some proportion shape or figure all which are impossible to be made of the ayre Againe the ayre is inconstant and continueth not long in a place and therefore by ascribing to the diuel an ayrie bodie we might rather conclude him a runnagate land-leaper then an inherent land-lord in any mans bodie Briefly if the diuel hath an ayrie bodie then also his said bodie is subiect to corruption and dissolution for the ayre is a corrupt and dissoluble bodie and so by consequence the diuels should be mortall as touching their ayrie bodies And therupon either they must haue new bodies made them a fresh when those other be dissolued or we must else beleeue also a resurrection of the bodies of diuels all which you may see is verie absurd Lycanthropus But Augustine he holdeth the contrarie For therefore saith he is the bodie of a Diuel incortuptible because in the aire and fire there is an actiue force as also in the water and earth a passiue force and so by consequence the bodie of a Diuel being airie is rather actiue then passiue Physiologus By Augustines leaue this accordeth neither with sound Philosophie nor yet with common experience For with the
which is too too absurd as was told you before Lycanthropus I wonder you are so peremptory in denying this point I hauing not onely the Philosophers as you heard euen now but ecclesiastical fathers both old and new on my side Orthodoxus Your philosophers they shoote faire and farre off as you also haue heard euen now You say you haue fathers both old and new on your side let vs see first whether your old fathers doe come any neerer the marke Lycanthropus First Origen he flatly affirmeth that spirits and diuels are endued with their proper bodies Orthodoxus Origen if that booke be his owne is not to be regarded concerning this question because therein he doth nothing but play the Platonist iumpingfull patte with Psellus in euerie point And therefore he deserueth none other answere then that which was giuen to those other before Let vs heare more authentical fathers or end the discourse Lycanthropus Hilarie he saith there is nothing which in it owne substance and in respect of creation is not corporall And therefore spirits and diuels they hauing their substance and being created are also corporall Orthodoxus Hilarie he saith so indeed but giues no one reason of saying so It is not enough for your selfe to crie out and say Hilarie he speakes it vnlesse Hilarie also doth prooue what he speake which he doth not in the place you alleage He onely propoundeth the matter without any proofe and may easily be answered thus The soule of man it hath her substance and was also created and yet incorporall For or euer it was infused into the bodie and after the dissolution thereof it doth substantially exist and is also immortall accomplishing continually her animall operations Neither needes shee an humane bodie in any respect of her proper essentiall being but onely in regard of her organicall operations as was shewed before And therefore Hilarie he helpes you nothing at all Lycanthropus Tertullian verie plainely affirmeth Angels and spirites to haue their peculiar bodies Orthodoxus Whatsoeuer Tertullian saith there concerning this question the Schoolemen they doe excuse and qualifie his speech on this sort They say that Tertullian by the name of bodie vnderstandeth onely the spirituall substance of Angels and nothing else And this he doth saie they in an onely regard of the simplicitie of that people with whom he delt who helde that nothing coulde possibly exist in nature without a bodie Tertullian therefore in that onely regard did purposely call the substances of spirites and diuels by the name of a bodie Lycanthropus Yea but Tertullian auoucheth further that God himselfe is also a bodie and therefore much more that spirits and diuels they haue their bodies His wordes be these Who will deny God himselfe to be a bodie although God indeed be a spirit Orthodoxus This is so farre from confuting as it rather confirmes that qualification which the Schoolemen doe make Namely that by the worde bodie Tertullian vnderstandeth nothing but the spirituall and simple substance of spirits and diuels Besides that it is one thing to be a bodie and another to haue a bodie Tertullian saith onely that God is a bodie he saith not there that God hath a bodie Lycanthropus Notwithstanding all this he saith elsewhere that spirits and diuels are corporall his reason is because the soules of men are also corporall Orthodoxus Herein his pouerty bewraieth it selfe being constrained as you see to beg his cause wherin also he would proue the same by the same namely corporall spirits by corporal soules Howbeit we haue proued before do here affirm it a fresh that the soules of men they are incorporal and therefore by consequence spirits and diuels they are not corporal but spiritual substances Besides all this Augustine verie flatly affirmeth that the incorporall doe differ fully from corporall substances and denieth withall that whatsoeuer is created the same is a bodie yea he sharpely reprehendeth and derideth Tertullian for auouching the soules of men to be corporall And in the end he thinks it too too absurd to hold that a reasonable soule should be a bodie in any respect because the same is onely and altogether incorporall And thus you may plainely perceiue by Augustine how vnfitly Tertullian doth fit your turne Exorcistes But Augustine himselfe elsewhere verie flatly affirmeth that all reasonable creatures are corporall substances yea and that euen the intellectuall creatures namely Angels spirits and diuels are euerie of them also corporall powers howsoeuer they subsist not of flesh and bloud Orthodoxus How Augustine agreeth with Augustine your selfe may plainely perceiue and therein also may wisely consider what credit consists in such varietie But that your Augustine may also receiue his answere let vs heare his argument whereby he would prooue spirits and diuels to be corporall substances Lycanthropus He reasoneth thus We doe therefore affirme the intellectuall powers to be corporall substances onely because they are circumscribed with place euen as humane soules are also inclosed with bodies Orthodoxus This is his argument Whatsoeuer is circumscribed with place that same is corporall but spirits and diuels they are circumscribed with place therefore spirits and diuels they are corporall I answere the proposition is faultie and halteth downe right For the localitie of spirits and diuels doth not simply depend vpon a bodie which after it owne manner I meane circumscriptiuely and sensibly is no doubt in a place but it ariseth properly from the finitouesse and dimensiuenesse of the angelicall nature it selfe Which said angelicall nature being created of God is therefore but finite and circumscribed also with those her owne termes which are competent and proper vnto her And therefore the intellectuall powers they are in a place because they be finite substances although yet they are in a place but definitiuely or determinately So then spirites and diuels you see they are vndoubtedly in a place because they be locall but they are therefore said to be local not because they be corporall as Augustine imagineth but for that being finite they haue their muchnesse or quantity after a sort I meane no predicamental but an intelligible quantity And therefore Augustine he speaketh soundly you see against Tertullian but proueth your purpose nothing at al. Exorcistes But the author of the Ecclesiasticall opinions writeth plainely that we must beleeue nothing to be incorporall or inuisible but onely God Who alone is truely said to be incorporall because he is euery where present replenishing al things and therefore also inuisible to euery creature because he is incorporall His first argument is framed thus Whatsoeuer is incorporall that same is euery where because vbiquity is the cause of incorporality But spirits and diuels they are not euery where therefore spirits and diuels they are not incorporal Orthodoxus The proposition with his prosyllogisme halteth downe right the same being a deceaueable Elench making that the cause which is not properly the
together that man may not truely be termed a liuing man And which more is the soule and body are so inseparably conioyned by the creation of God as no one creature in heauen or in earth may possibly disioyne them before the finall separation of life according to the determinate councell appointment of God Briefly be it supposed that the diuell could in deed assume to himselfe some liuing mans bodie and could also for the present extenuate the same and transforme the substance thereof into spirituall congellations as Tatianus affirmeth yet this is verie certaine and a generall rule that two substantiall formes cannot possibly be inherent together and at once in one and the selfe same subiect And therefore to bring the substantiall forme of a diuell without feeling into the substantiall body of a man without either killing or hurting and which more is to transforme the same into such a slender and impalpable substance as cannot of the possessed him selfe be sensibly perceiued or felt no not at the first entrance into him it may well be vnlikely but very certaine I am the same is vtterly impossible for all the diuels in hell to accomplish such hard hap they haue in assuming a liuing mans body Pneumatomachus For my part I rather suppose that the Diuel doth assume to himselfe some deads mans bodie Physiologus This your supposall is no lesse absurd then the orher before For first if that bodie which the Diuel doth assume be the body of a dead man departed long since then surely it is an hundred to one that that selfesame assumed bodie is either eaten with wormes and so vnfit for the seruice or is else so putrified with filthie corruption as the Diuel by entring into any therwith must needes poyson the possessed man vnto death Againe if that assumed bodie be the bodie of a dead man but lately departed this life the Diuel then by assuming such a newly departed bodie must be supposed to appeere in a white winding sheete as he was heretofore thought to appeere vnto Saul in Samuels supposed bodie with a mantel about him must so for the present forsake that his supposed forme which the Poets and Painters doe hold to be griesly and blacke Besides that in supposing the Diuel can assume to himselfe the bodie of a man you doe therein very grosly oppose your selfe to the blessed Apostle who saith most confidently that mens bodies are created for the Lord himselfe and not for infernall Spirits That they are the members of Christ not the mansions of Belial the temples of the holy Ghost not a dungeon for Diuels a stie for Satan not an habitation for Helhounds Briefly if the Diuel doth assume to himselfe some dead mans bodie whether long since or but lately departed we must by this your supposall imagine a resurrection of bodies before to the generall iudgement and therein also must attribute to the Diuel that absolute power of raising the dead which only is due and proper to God and so by consequence conclude that the Diuel can accomplish and worke true miracles Whereas the Lord only is able to take life from the dead and to restore them againe vnto life which is such a miraculous worke of the omnipotent God as by an infallible consequence approoueth the Deitie Seeing therefore that by this your supposal you doe in effect but Deifie the Diuel bee foorthwith ashamed to hold that Spirits haue power to assume to themselues the bodie of a man alreadie created whether dead or aliue Lycanthropus You grant then that the Diuels doe assume to themselues some vncreated bodie Physiologus I grant no such thing For how is it possible either Diuel or Angel should assume that which is not at all or that they should take to themselues a bodie not yet existing in nature Philologus Very true But after the creation of such an essentiall bodie you doe then confesse the Diuel may assume such a bodie Physiologus I confesse no such matter vnlesse you first shew me by whom those selfesame supposed bodies should be essentially created whether by God or the Diuel Exorcistes They are surely created by God or not at all for the Lord onely alone is the creator of all things Physiologus Though the Lord in deed be the Creator of all things yet doth it not necessarily folow and your selfe shal neuer be able to proue that he is also the Creator of these things And how dare you then so confidently auouch that these your supposed bodies for the seruice of diuels are essentially created by God Exorcistes God is of infinite power and therefore may doe it Physiologus Your may be concludeth nothing at all Neither doe we dispute what God either may or is able to doe but what in deed and in truth he doth certainly accomplish And albeit the Lord I confesse be of infinit power yet is his said power restrainde to his will for whatsoeuer the Lord willeth that doth he in heauen and in earth So then vnlesse you can shew the Lords word to witnesse his will concerning such extraordinarie creation of bodies for the seruice of Satan whatsoeuer your selfe shall haplie imagine that God may doe therein you must yet giue vs leaue to doubt of the doing there of in deed Lycanthropus But why may not the Lord for the execution of iustice create them such bodies Physiologus First because the Lord hath infinite meanes besides and those also of more excellent maiestie for the execution of iustice and therefore he stands in no maner of neede to haue such a patched supplie Secondly for that the Lord will neuer do that which may any waies witnes against himselfe But for him to create such essential bodies afresh at the pleasure of the diuell and so oft as he pleaseth doth derogate greatly from the certaintie of that sacred truth which sealeth vnto vs the certaine accomplishment of all his workes whatsoeuer in sixe daies space and the vndoubted ceasing from all his labors the folowing day Moreouer to hold for infallible truth that those your supposed bodies for the seruice of Satan must in any case be created of God what doe you else in effect but thereby conclude the Lord him selfe to be slauishly subiect vnto Satan his accursed commaund in creating him bodies afresh and so oft as seemeth him good Briefly sith the glory of God is the maine end of all his creation what one glory may possibly redounde to the Lord by creating such your supposed bodies as being altogether by Satan abused are prepared neither to destruction nor glorie And therefore it is grosse impietie or rather an horrible blasphemie for any to hold that the Lord alone must be the Creator of any such essentiall bodies as your selfe and some others suppose the diuell doth assume to his seruice Lycanthropus It is certaine then that those assumed bodies are created by Satan him selfe Physiologus It is euen as
assuming of bodies to the transforming of bodies your store then I perceiue is not great and it seemes you are almost drawen dry Howbeit because the handling of this point will craue a large discourse Let vs therefore breake off for the present And hauing with some small pittance refreshed our selues then wil we conferre hereof to the full til dinner be readie if you like of the offer Pneumatomachus Sir we like whatsoeuer you feele best for your selfe and therefore respect your owne health and we three in the meane time will repaire to our Innes and after will meet you afresh Orthodoxus Nay surely as we haue iointly ioyned together in spirituall repast so will we not sunder our selues in our corporall sustenance all the while our controuersie continueth And therefore if you doe like the thinne diet of schollers let vs in Gods name goe all together Philologus It is much to troublesome vnto you and chargeable both but sith you wil haue it so we will all iontly attend on your person Orthodoxus Let vs then arise and depart The end of the fourth Dialogue The fifth Dialogue THE ARGVMENT Whether Spirits and Diuels can essentially transforme themselues into any true naturall bodie And how those places of Scripture are to be taken which manie produce for that purpose The speakers names PHILOLOGVS LYCANTHROPVS PNEVMATOMACHVS PHYSIOLOGVS ORTHODOXVS EXORCISTES Orthodoxus SIth nature by the good blessing of God is something refreshed let vs now for a while keepe close in my parlour with ful purpose to proceede in our conference till dinner be ready and then after walke forth in the aire to recreate our spirits Physiologus With very good will and therefore linger not the time but go an end in your purpose Orthodoxus Goe to then Lycanthropus repeate your argument Lycanthropus I repeate it thus Spirits and diuels they can essentially transforme themselues into any true naturall body therefore they can also essentially enter into the possessed mans body Orthodoxus Proue your antecedent Lycanthropus What sir do you flatly denie that the diuell can essentially transforme himselfe into what bodie he please I am fully resolued to hold this point whatsoeuer be said to the contrarie Orthodoxus Your vnreasonable resolution is vnto vs no reasonable conclusion neither is the question betweene vs what you wil hold but what you are able to prooue concerning this point And albeit I doubt nothing at al but that you for your owne part will hold verie much till it comes to the pinch yet we hope you will change your purpose if once you be made to perceiue that none but your selfe are of this opinion Lycanthropus Yes sir all the world I am sure iumpes pat with me in this point and verie certeine I am I shall gaine your consent to the same in the end Orthodoxus Howsoeuer you seeme confident in the common consent of the world your gaine I assure you is not like to be great by any such a supposed grant as you haplie imagine from me Lycanthropus Will you not grant that diuels may essentially transforme themselues into what bodies they please Physiologus Master Orthodoxus let me answere this point if you please Come on Lycanthropus what is the thing you would haue granted vnto you Lycanthropus Why this namely that diuels may essentially transforme themselues into a true naturall bodie Physiologus Such a grant we may yeeld you at no hand because euen Philosophie her selfe is flat opposite to it who will neuer admit any such a confused participation of essentiall formes For as essence it selfe is impartible and vndeuidable or rather a certaine incommunicable and singular matter so surely the essence and vnitie of things being preserued intier essentiall formes they cannot possiblie be cnumōicated transferred or passed ouer from that substance it selfe whereof they are formes into any other substance or matter to giue the same also an essentiall forme Because not onely the constituting forming or framing but euen also the destruction of substances doth essentially arise from the forme it selfe And looke whereunto there is giuen a forme conuenient and proportionable to one onely essence thereunto also must necessarily be giuen an vndoubted true essence Because a proper forme is the principall part of essence yea and as some learned Philosophers doe flatly affirme it is the whole essence or nature of the thing it selfe And therefore if spirits and diuels be at any time essentially transformed into men then do they foorthwith cease for that time to be spirits and diuels and may truely be said to be men Lycanthropus I doe not well conceiue your meaning Physiologus I will further explaine it thus If there be any such essentiall transforming of spirits and diuels into men as your selfe doth imagine then vndoubtedly that selfe same essentiall transformation it is either according to the body alone or according to the body and soule together If according to the body alone then that selfe same transformed body it should at one and the selfe same time become both the body of a man and the body of a diuell which were to to absurde to imagine If according to the body and soule together then either the whole man both body soule must be essentially transformed into the very essence and nature of a diuell or the diuell he must needes be essentially transformed into the very naturall body and soule of a man at the least which none but mad-men will euer affirme Againe if that essentiall transformation be effected according to the body alone then howsoeuer that selfe same body be not for the present the body of a man but is wholy transformed into the very essence and nature of a diuell yet the soule of that man must either be forced to forsake his owne body and so bring present death to the body it selfe because death is nothing else but the dissolution of soule and bodie or else the same soule it must necessarily passe from out of it owne body into the very essence of a diuell and so by consequence there must needes be a meere confusion of spirituall substances or two essentiall formes in one and the selfe same body at once which were absurde to auouch and vtterly impossible by any created power to be euer effected Lycanthropus Let Phylosophie be opposite or what she will very certaine I am the diuell can essentially transforme him selfe into any true naturall body Physiologus What man will you in deed oppose your selfe to true Phylosophie then I perceiue you respect not at all the operations and powers of nature But goe to let master Orthodoxus heare what one reason you haue in true diuinitie to mannage your said resolution Lycanthropus What one reason quoth you why man the diuell he can essentially transforme him selfe into an Angell of light therefore how much more into any true naturall body Orthodoxus You are mightily mis-led herein by mistaking the word metaschemarizetai That is to say he transmuted transfashioned
no vndoubted true signes of any dispossessing of Satan But in all the adiurations which concerne the aforesaid examples there was no crying aloude no rending sore nor no leauing as dead therefore in all the adiurations which concerne the aforesaid examples there were no vndouted true signes of the dispossessing of satan Thus then it is very apparant you see by all the premisses that vnlesse you will purposely fall into palpable absurdities you may at no hand auouch that those cryings those rendings and tearings and that leauing for dead are the vndoubted true signes of the dispossessing of satan No you must rather perswade your selfe they were purposely reported for speciall and proper effects of that speciall and proper action of Christ and not considerately put downe for perpetuall and vndoubted true signes of all the actuall dispossessings of spirits and diuels in whomsoeuer Notwithstanding be it supposed which will neuer be prooued that your selfe did vndoubtedly driue foorth a diuel from the yoongman at Mahgnitton and that some cryings aloude some rendings sore and some leauing as dead were then also the speciall effects of that your supposed speciall action doe here tell vs I pray you after what speciall manner you effected the action Whether onely by meanes or by a miraculous manner Exorcistes Surely euen onely by meanes and not by any miraculous manner of working at all Physiologus Good Maister Orthodoxus let me argue this matter a little Come on Exorcistes doe you hold in good earnest that diuels may bee driuen foorth from men and that onelie by meanes Exorcistes I am very confident therein I assure you Physiologus Make your mind plaine before we proceede And tel me I pray you whether spirtts and diuels by very natural or corporall meanes may be truely dispossessed and driuen from men Exorcistes Yea euen by very naturall or corporall meanes Physiologus Why man spirits and diuels they are meere spirituall creatures But such is the proper condition of spirituall creatures that all corporall matters whatsoeuer they come short thereunto by many degrees and therefore we may boldly conclude that those corporall or sensible things can work nothing efficiently in spirits and diuels can offer no violence at all vnto them nor possibly expell them from any their actuall possessions Exorcistes Yes sir I am able to demonstrate this matter by an argument of comparison thus There is one and the selfesame condition of spirits and of liuing mens soules for they are both of them spirituall essences But euen by a meere corporall or sensible meanes may some violence be offered to liuing mens soules yea they may thereby eftsoones be separated quite from their bodies and therefore euen to spirits also by meanes of some corporall or sensible matter there may eftsoones some violence be offered and they also may be expelled quite from their actuall possessions in man Physiologus Your argument of comparison it consisteth not of such pares as are equally alike in euerie respect no it halteth downe right in that selfesame point wherupon it is more especially grounded and therefore it enforceth no necessarie conclusion vpon vs at all For the condition of spirits and of liuing mens soules howsoeuer alike in spirituall essence it is vtterly vnlike respecting the bodies whereupon they both worke Soules they are properly conioyned to their owne proper bodies as the verie first essential forme thereof appointed by God howbeit spirits not by any proprietie but by vsurpation rather they are onely actually there as the afflictors or tormentors permitted by God So then for those former respects the soules of liuing men doe necessarily require in those their owne bodies some such certaine dispositions and qualities as the diuels themselues they being no true essentiall formes of those bodies require not at all And therefore spirits or diuels they may actually afflict and torment those selfesame bodies of men how vnfitly soeuer they finde them whereas the soules of men vnlesse those their said bodies be aptly proportioned and fitted thereto they cannot informe them at all Exorcistes Sir howsoeuer you enforce a disparison betweene spirites and soules concerning especially their dealings with bodies and thereby would frustrate the force of my argument verie certeine I am that spirits or diuels they may be driuen foorth from mens bodies and that onely by meanes Physiologus But by what meanes I beseech you whether by an vncreated or by a created meanes Exorcistes Not by any vncreated meanes at all For how can I possiblie practise that thing which is either vncreated or not existing in nature Physiologus Then you do flatly conclude that spirites or diuels they may actually be dispossessed euen by a created or meere naturall meanes Exorcistes Yea so much I flatly conclude Physiologus This then I must tell you for certeine that you doe very fondly conclude you wotte not what For this is vndoubtedly true that no created or naturall meanes whatsoeuer may efficiently extend themselues to any such supernaturall actions as do anie way concerne the dispossessing of diuels Because all such supernaturall actions they proceed not at all from any power of nature but from the onely power of obedience By the onely efficacie of which obedientiall power euen any thing of euerie thing may easilie be effected although yet in an onely respect of the mightie Iehouah himselfe the sole and onely efficient thereof For albeit the Saints of the Lord namely Moses and manie others are saide to effect supernaturall actions yet therein wee must rightly vnderstand that onely the Lord alone he workes that by his Saints which he workes by himselfe And therefore in saying as you do that spirits or diuels they may be dispossessed from men by any created or naturall meanes you do therein very ignorantly auouch you wot not well what Exorcistes Yes sir I wot well what I say and am able to demonstrate the truth thereof by many examples Physiologus Let vs heare your examples which make for this matter Exorcistes With verie good will First therefore Iosephus verie plainely reporteth that when Titus and Vespasian besieged Ierusalem there was an Exorciste that time in the hoste who by a certeine stone in a ring deliuered many that were possessed of Satan Moreouer Eleazar the Hebrew as the said Iosephus recordeth he vsed certeine Exorcismes which were inuented and made by Salomon for the expelling of spirits and diuels namely ringes rootes herbes and such other like sensible matters But the stone in the ringe those rootes and those herbes they were onely created and meere naturall meanes therefore some onely created and meere naturall meanes it hath and may haue in it selfe an actuall power for the dispossessing of spirits and diuels Physiologus Why doe you not also alleage that which the said Iosephus and Aelianus also reporteth concerning the herbe Cynospastus being otherwaies called Aglaphotis which hath they say a certeine speciall operation for the powerfull expelling of spirits and
essentiall being The rather because euery creature else how contemptible soeuer being once created it hath an essentiall substance and if the basest of all then much more the Angels they being indeed such excellent creatures Pneumatomachus Well goe to how next from their effectuall operations Orthodoxus Thus their operations haue beene and now are apparantly euident to all the world whether we respect the Lord or his church So that for any to doubt of their essentiall being is to call in question the sun-shine at mid-day and as wel may he denie their operations whatsoeuer Pneumatomachus Good sir is this your substantiall proouing of Angels and Spirits I denie that the Lord God euer created any Angels at all and then to what purpose doe you vrge their supposed operations Orthodoxus Sith you so confidently denie both Spirits and Diuels tell me what you imagine those to be which we generally hold for Spirits and Angels Pneumatomachus Sir I take those your supposed spirits for none other matters at all but the good or euill motions and affections arising in men as also those your imagined Angels I hold them to bee nothing else but the sensible signes or tokens of Gods vnspeakeable power Orthodoxus You do then conclude it should seeme that our faith concerning those matters is grounded altogither vpon bare supposals and idle imaginations of wandring braines I like well your plainnes in laying open your minde although I alowe not your pestiferous opinions iumping so pat with the Parepateticall and Sadusaicall sort Who flatly denying either Angel or Spirite do confidently auouch that there is nothing immortall in man which is a verie dangerous gulph of hell that deuoureth and swaloweth vp all sound diuinitie and sincere knowledge of God For first by opposing your selfe against all the essentiall spirits and powers of the Lord what doe you else in effect but implicatiuely reiect the essentiall being of the holy Ghost and then next you do also by consequence verie flatly deny that there is any God at all for what I pray you is God but a Spirite Pneumatomachus Nay sir howsoeuer I oppose my selfe to the catholike opinion of Spirits and Diuels I do confidently auouch and confesse that there is one true euerliuing God of an incomprehensible inuisible and spirituall essence distinguished into the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost And moreouer concerning men and my selfe I do with like confidence verie cleerely acknowledge that euerie of vs also are essentiallie endued with spirituall and immortall soules Orthodoxus You cannot faithfully finally hold these infallible truthes from your hart but you must and will presently banish those other palpable errours from out of your brest For euen as Aaron his rodde deuoured foorthwith the counterfeite rods of all the Egyptian Sorcerers so surely these your confessed truths concerning the essentiall spirits and powers of the Lord being faithfully held from the hart will in the end I doubt not be another Aaronicall rodde to confute and confound those other Sadusaical sorceries wherewith the Diuel hath so dangerously bewitched your soule Lycanthropus Verie true if he be not to opinionate therein Pneumatomachus Sir howsoeuer I haue beene hitherto opinionate in this speciall point I am notwithstanding very loth that reason should be ouerruled by will or that the holy truth of God should giue place vnto errour and therefore proceed I beseech you in the timely vnfolding of this hidden mysterie Orthodoxus With very good will wherein also for your speedier conceiuing of that which is spoken we will first lay open the originall fountaine from whence this errour floteth abroad and then next hauing fully answered your arguments we wil directly prooue vnto you both Spirits and Diuels Exorcistes A very excellent order For there by first you shall cleere our iudgements and then next you shall the more fully confirme vs in the infallible truth Lycanthropus That is certainly so But what thinkes Pneumatomachos Pneumatomachus I acknowledge no lesse and do promise withall to giue an attentiue eare to whatsoeuer is spoken Orthodoxus Well then to proceede therein accordingly this I dare boldly affirme that your Parepatetical opinion or rather that this your Sadusaicall sorcerie concerning the non being of Spirits and Diuels proceedeth directly from a two-folde false ground Namely first from the naturall corruption of your proper minde and secondly from a carelesse misconstruing of some certeine places of Scripture Both which saide false grounds albeit I could and might well relate them my selfe yet because the first is rather Philosophical then Diuine I do purposely put ouer the prosecuting thereof as of al other like points to this my good brother if it please him to trauell therin reseruing the latter to entreate of my selfe Physiologus Sith it is your good pleasure to haue it so I will gladly giue my endeuour to satisfie the man so it seemeth him good Pneumatomachus With all my hart if first you will tell me who you are and what is your name Physiologus I am I assure you a friend to the truth and my name is Physiologos Pneâ—matomachus In very good time be it spoken But may I be bold by the way to aske you a question without offence Physiologus Propound at your pleasure and aske what you please Pneumatomachus Was not your name also purposely giuen to purport vnto vs your proper nature For Physiologus you say is your name which vnlesse I be fowly deceaued is as much to say as a babler or pratler of naturall Philosophie or it signifieth rather some notable discourser of naturall causes I hope you are none of those cogging companions of whom the Apostle doth wish vs beware who goe purposely about to spoile men with Philosophie and vaine deceit Orthodoxus Nothing lesse For the man I assure you is both a sound Philosopher and a sincere Diuine Neither would I haue you once to imagine that Paul doth there purposely oppose himselfe to all true Philosophie whether naturall or morall no but reprooueth rather that false and counterfeit Philosophie which hauing onely an appearance of truth and not the substance of truth it selfe is cunningly foisted in by cogging companions to spoile and deceiue mens mindes of the truth indeed For otherwaies all true Philosophie is the speciall gift of God and a principall helpe to Diuinitie so far foorth especially as she is made a submissiue Moderatour in naturall causes and not a commaunding Mistres ouer Diuinitie Then I assure you shee comes in her naturall kinde and thrice happie is he that hath a true insight into her according to that old accustomed saying Foelix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas The wight that could all causes skan Might count himselfe an happie man Now then such a Philosopher is this and therefore be bold vpon my warrant to harken freely vnto him concerning the first ground of your errour Pneumatomachus I credit your words let him therefore proceede in his purpose Physiologus
to answere Augustine by Augustine himselfe both in the very same booke and else where besides Wherein he flatly affirmeth that the angels do outwardly helpe vs by certaine visible apparitions or sights which they propose offer before our eies Those selfesame apparitions hauing not onely an apt resemblance of naturall bodies but which also are subiected vnder their Angelicall auctoritie and power Thus the Augustine you see is so variable in himselfe concerning this point as no certaintie can be concluded of that which he speakes Lycanthropus By this one shift you may easily shift ouer what truth soeuer the holy fathers affirme Ortâ—odoxus I neuer yet sought to shake of any truth by shifts Neither doe I preiudice Augustine or any of the fathers by viewing and reiecting their variable opinions for so Augustine in his latter Retractions oft times reiecteth himselfe And howsoeuer Augustine or your selfe doe dreame in this point very certaine I am as was shewed before that the good Angels of God in their orderly execution of any peculiar office appointed by God were neuer essentially mingled with the minds of the godly No verely but in all their ambassages they doe either manifest themselues by seeing and hearing or assist vs eftsoones by some other sensible meanes howbeit they at no hand do helpe vs by any reall commixture of their proper substances together with ours No that God of order who ordereth all things in number in waight and in measure hauing decreed no such course at all would at no hand permit such confusion of substances nor endure such shamefull disorder among anie his creatures in heauen or in earth Lycanthropus Tell me then by what meanes they do hurt men Orthodoxus Not by any essentiall possession or reall commixture of themselues with mens mindes but by that selfesame effectuall power which euen now worketh mightily in the disobedient children By the efficacie also of which working power they become lying spirites in the mouthes of false prophets they worke lying woonders in all deceiueablenes of vnrighteousnes they buffet mens mindes with fearefull tentations they endeuour to sifte and to winnowe mens soules as men winnow wheate they circumuent them with wiles they make men vncleane they possesse them by deafenes they strike them with blindenes they subdue them through dumbnes they ouercome them by lamenesse yea and euen binde them as it were with diseases a long time togither Brieflie the diuel hauing power ouer death by the efficacie of that power he doth vexe and torment men within and without compassing ouer the earth running like a ramping roaring lyon continually about to deuoure Lycanthropus Yea but how should they possiblie either hurt or deuoure hauing in men no reall possession Orthodoxus You do ouer-grosly conceiue of the matter and with as good reason might aske me howe an enimie should possiblie hurt the captaine which keepeth an hold he hauing in the saide captaine no reall possession Howbeit this me thinke you might know by experience that notwithstanding the want of reall possession the enimie may many waies hurt the said captaine as by giuing him bribes to betray the hold by assaulting by battring by undermyning by pyning by wounding yea and by slaying some of his souldiers before his face All these and many moe annoiances the enimie may offer the captaine though not essentially inherent in the captaine himselfe yea and by the dispatching of these he cannot choose but vexe and torment the captaine himselfe euen as if he had really and substantially possessed his person After the selfe-same maner dealeth Satan with such as he is said to possesse For albeit he doth not substantially enter into the possessed mans minde which is as it were a grand-captaine ouer the bodie yet for all this the diuell that sworne aduersarie of man by deuising procuring applying and by ministring many strange sicknesses diseases and deathes to the bodie he doth no lesse violently vexe and torment the minde it selfe then if he were essentially entred therein Yea and all these the forenamed annoiances he effecteth at his owne will and pleasure Partly for that he is of long experience in mischief hauing bin a practitioner therein from the beginning of the world Partly thorough a more easie maner of knowing things he being very sharpe sighted throughly acute not needing those meanes which earthlie men neede to vnderstand and to find forth the natures effects and causes of things And partlie also by reason of the excellencie of their proper nature they being most speedelie caried from place to place being of infinite power in comparison of vs and being also of such an exquisite knowledge as eftsoones they vndertake by obseruing euents and by conferring of causes to coniecture the timelie successe of manie their mischeiuous enterprises By al the premisses then it is verie apparant that the diuel he hath such an effectuall power permitted vnto him as he needes not essentiallie enter mans mind to accomplish any his diuellish enterprises Lycanthropus If diuels enter not essentiallie into the possessed mans mind how should they possiblie encline or bow his saied mind to their purpose Orthodoxus Touching the enclining of mindes if we speake herein according to truth God alone is properlie said to worke in the minds of men and to encline their wils which waies he please although yet spirites and diuels they may also be considered as helpers herein howbeit such helpers no doubt as doe rather moue by external reasons then encline at al by internal actions And euen so the lying spirite in the mouth of Ahab his prophets was after a sort an helper to God Concerning therefore the enclining of minds we must here distinguish betweene the interiour efficient who onlie is God and the exteriour agent namelie spirites and diuels Againe the meanes whereby the exteriour agent doth worke is twofold The first is the external obiect of the mind it being apprehended of the vnderstanding for good and effectuallie offered also vnto the wil. For euerie facultie of the mind is especiallie moued by his proper obiect not only offered but apprehended also effectually The other external meanes enclining the mind is seated in those affections and passions that are placed in the sensitiue appetite namely lust anger loue and such like by which also the wil after a sort is inclined to something Now then spirites and diuels they are able by external obiects to stirre vp affections and passions in the sensitiue appetite Howbeit not simplie and absolutelie as God who is said to haue the hearts of kings in his hand and who also is able alone to encline mans wil effectuallie to whatsoeuer he please but after a sort and so far forth also as they by external reasons are able like councellours to perswade the wil vnto something For they cannot possiblie compel the wil the same
cause in deed For neither is infinitenesse nor the vbiquity depending thereon the only proper cause that any thing is incorporal but some other thing els As for example an omnipresence or if so I may speake an incorporiety is truely in God howbeit God is incorporal not so much in regard of his vbiquity as because he is a simple spirit Angels in like sort are therefore incorporal in their proper degree because they be spirits but yet created spirits and they are therefore local because they be finite substances Thus then your said author his first argument afordeth smal force you see to your present purpose Lycanthropus But he argueth secondly thus Whatsoeuer is incorporal that also is inuisible spirites and diuels they are not inuisible therefore also not incorporal Orthodoxus First the assumption is meerely false because it maketh spirits and diuels naturally visible which al men do know to be otherwaies by common experience For who euer hath hitherto seene or could possibly perceiue a spirit or diuel as they are in their proper nature Againe in the proposition he failes as before by pretending a cause which is not the cause For the denying of a corporal or bodily beeing is not the proper cause of inuisibility but the absence the vitiousnesse the depriuation or fault of some other thing els which are necessarily required in the action of seeing Besides that by this argument a man might also deny the aiery element to be a body or corporal substance for who can possibly behold or sensibly see the purity of the ayre it selfe Thus then your old fathers you see they in deed and in truth are not interessed at al in that misbegotten ofspring which your selfe so desirously but yet fasly would father vpon them and therefore let vs now here what better hap with the new Lycanthropus With a very good will First Rhodiginus he affirmeth confidently that spirits and diuels haue their proper bodies Orthodoxus How should he so confidently affirme his opinion not hauing the conformitie and concord of truth consorting therewith Besides that Rhodiginus he proues his assertion by the bare and onely authority of Augustine the which auctority and opinion of his as you haue heard it disproued before so surely Rhodiginus himselfe he doth dangerously crosse and annihilate it by opposing many vnauoidable exceptions of scholemen against the same And therefore Rhodiginus his authority is nothing authenticall or currant concerning your question Lycanthropus But Caietanus explaining these the Apostles words according to the prince of the airie spirits or powers he is not afraide to affirme that it holdeth best with reason and sound Philosophie to beleeue that spirits and diuels are constituted naturally of airie bodies Orthodoxus Doth Caietanus say so indeed Oh the wit that abounds in a Cardinals hat But what is his reason I pray you Lycanthropus He hath a reason that knockes it dead namely this Euen as saith he the vegetatiue substance is found without the sensitiue and the sensitiue without the motiue and an intellectiue without either sensitiue or motiue according to place so is it credible that an intellectiue may be found without a sensitiue with a motiue onely according to place and such saith he are spirits and diuels Orthodoxus Doth Caietanus conclude as you say Now faire fall his good hart for his cunning conclusion surely he himselfe alone hath striken the Popingaie dead This I confesse is an admirable argument Howbeit this I must tell you that such maner of arguments howsoeuer they may seeme at a blush to giue a glimmering shewe of conueniencie they haue in them verie small force to conuince And without doubt if Caietanus his conclusion be canonized currant it might in like maner be granted that the sensitiue substance is to be found without the vegetatiue and the intellectiue with the sensitiue without the motiue according to place and so no one thing shall be wanting which may tende to the generalitie and absolutenesse of such kinde of couplings togither Which when all is done your opinion for any thing Caietanus concludes is like to lie in the dust Exorcistes Yea but Georgius he affirmeth plainely that spirits and diuels are not onely corporall and airie substances but that they haue in them also the power of generation and can shedde forth seed for that purpose Howbeit when they come to a woman saith he then they do contract gather togither or thicken their airie bodies fashioning them fitte for the purpose which they presently affect yea and that also their ofsprings are properly Gyants Orthodoxus Notwithstanding Georgius his impudent and shamelesse affirmation of a matter so shamefull I will at no hand be drawne any longer to heare it much lesse doe I giue credite vnto it and which more is I will neither defile my toong nor infect your chaste eares with the filthie contagion thereof it being so impossible in nature and so incredible in all sound Diuinitie Howbeit if any of the learned be further desirous to heare this his grosse impudencie and foolerie more fully confuted I referre them ouer to the learned Treatises of such as haue sifted that offensiue argument vnto the bran More especially to the seuerall workes of Wierus Engubinus Casmannus Aristotle Frisiuss Scaliger Cassianus and others who do euery of them so soundly beate downe this your Georgius his grosse assertion as I my selfe shall not neede to deale in it at all Lycanthropus But yet Zanchius a man of excellent learning he not onely enclineth that way but holdeth withall this my opinion of corporall spirits Orthodoxus Zanchius imbraceth the same I confesse as the more probable opinion in his conceite but what manner of bodies spirits and diuels should haue he doth not determine That they haue airy bodies he seeth not he saith how the same should be proued But he verely supposeth spirits and diuels to haue other manner of bodies then either airie or celestiall bodies and that the substance of their bodies is more like to the substance of that heauen of the blessed which is properly called the Empyrial or fiery heauen Thus this excellent learned man he doth giue among others his coniecturall opinion concerning the bodies of spirits and diuels A coniectural opinion I say very purposely consonant to that other opinion which himselfe and some others doe hold about the creation of Angels in that the forenamed heauen of the blessed Howbeit neither Zanchius nor any of the rest do certeinly determine this matter in question Lycanthropus Well yet Zanchius and the other they purposely encline to this my opinion concerning corporall spirits and diuels Orthodoxus Not so For whereas your selfe do certainly hold that spirits and diuels are endued with grosse and airie bodies Zanchius and some others suppose they do rather consist of empyriall or fierie bodies as was shewed before where also I haue purposelie put downe the speciall reason of this
the forenamed places or any where else doe so much as once mention the same and therefore the perpetuitie of actual possession is no such part of Gods counsell as may any waie concerne the sauing or killing of soules Exorcistes Though the perpetuitie of actuall possessions be not plainely expressed yet why may not the same be couertly implied in some part of the Scriptures Orthodoxus Because this your supposed may be cannot certeinly conclude from thence any such supposed implication at all and I argue further against you thus If the perpetuitie of actual pssession be either expreslie or implicatiuely conteined in the Worde then also the miraculous faith for suppressing such actuall possession is either expresly or implicatiuely contained in the word but the latter is vndoubtedly false and therefore also the first Exorcistes Why may not the miraculous faith be auouched perpetuall Orthodoxus Because the same was but temporarie and had onely her powerfull continuance so farre foorth as seemed good to the Lord for an extraordinarie sealing vp and confirming of the word with miracles folowing But that vse hath vndoubtedly ceased long since and therefore also the miraculous faith attending such temporarie vse is vndoubtedly ceased Howbeit of this more at large when wee come to handle the meanes of subduing the extraordinarie power of the diuell In the meane time I argue the matter against you thus All true Christian churches and the soundest Diuines in our daies doe generallie conclude a finall discontinuance of the miraculous faith in these daies of the Gospell and therefore by consequence the vndoubted determination of the diuell his extraordinarie power of actuall possession Exorcistes Do you then verie confidently denie all power to the diuell in these daies of the Gospell Orthodoxus I onely impugne his supposed extraordinarie power for the perpetuitie of actuall possession I denie not his power of obsession at all Exorcistes Why what vnderstand you by his power of obsession Orthodoxus This question I assure you is verie fitly propounded for hauing hitherto handled at large the diuell his power of actuall possession it remaineth now to entreate a little of his power of obsession wherein we need not to be tedious the same being apparantly euident and generally confessed of all men Now therefore by the diuell his power of obsession I do heere vnderstand some certeine predeterminate abilitie facultie or inclination of his spirituall nature for the more powerfull enabling of his restlesse endeuours and insatiable desires to worke our daily destruction wherein he eftsoones assaulteth circumuenteth encloseth inuironeth besiegeth the seruants of God a fresh with a purposed mind to deuoure them quite were they not very mightilie protected by an inuincible power of the Lord. And this his said power of obsession consisteth especially either in an outward assaulting and vexing or in an inward suggesting and tempting at least Lycanthropus What meane you by an outward assaulting and vexing Orthodoxus I vnderstand thereby all those their externall allurements incumbrances molestations and griefes whatsoeuer wherewith the whole nature of man is wonderfully distressed disquieted and vexed Partly by worldly auctoritie examples promises compulsions profites pleasures and so foorth and partlie by fleshly affections inclinations dispositions delights attempts and carnall practises whatsoeuer they be Philologus And what meane you by inward suggestings and temptings Orthodoxus I vnderstand thereby all those the internall allurements of satan whatsoeuer wherewith he endeuoureth to drawe mens mindes from their dutifull obedience to God by daring or thrusting into them all trecherous and diuelish deuises yea and by kindling within them all vngodly motions affections lustes and desires Nowe for the speedie effecting hereof the diuels they become lying spirits in the mouthes of false Prophets they worke lying woonders in all deceaueablenes of vnrighteousnes they buffet mens minds with fearefull tentations they endeuour to fifâ—e and winow their soules as men winow wheate they make men vncleane and replenish their hartes with filthie pollutions that thereby they might draw them into open dissimulation with the holy Ghost they vexe and torment men within and without yea which more is they so dangerously â—ncumber mens iudgements through the Law of their members rebelling against the Law of their mindes as eftsoones they enforce them to distrust their happie deliuerance yea and to desire their present dissolution to be presently with Christ himselfe Loe thus much in effect for the diuel his power of obsession Lycanthropus This sir I assure yon is a woonderfull power and such as should foorthwith awaken our harts to a continuall watchfulnes But tell vs further I pray you by what meanes the diuell especially effecteth these matters Orthodoxus Although the diuel hath vndoubtedly innumerable meanes to accomplish his villanies yet surely the most principall for the timely effecting of his power of obsession is an holding men fast in the ignorance of God That so all the while they doe carelesly continue in darkenes and sit still in the shadow of death the diuell might assault them eftsoones at his pleasure and come vpon them at vnawares to accomplish in them his mischieuous purposes Neither is this holding of men in palpable ignorance impossible for satan by the permission of God to effect Because the diuell himselfe being the God of this world and therefore of an admirable power be both can and doth purposely blindfold the minds of all infidels least at any time the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ the image of God should shine foorth vnto them That hauing so insnared and captiuated the men at his pleasure they might from thencefoorth walke on in vanitie of their mindes And which more is that their vnderstanding by this meanes being darkened they might through their owne ignorance and hardnes of hart become aliants strangers from the life of God and being past feeling might foorthwith giue ouer themselues vnto wantonnes to worke all manner of vncleannes yea euen with insatiable and greedie affections Exorcistes Wel sir. And how is it possible the diuel should accomplish these fearefull effects in any mans mind but by an actuall possession at least Orthodoxus Yes the diuell he wel may and doth easily effect all these with many other like fearefull effects onely by an actuall power without any actuall possession at all And this especially by depriuing the world of that eternall word of life which was giuen to enlighten mens soules He depriues the world of the word of life either by holding it altogether from them or otherwise by hindring the effectuall working power thereof at the least He holds the word altogether from men by forestalling and hindering the timely establishment of faithfull Preachers in euerie place Againe if he cannot possibly intercept the Preachers establishment then he endeuors eftsoones to hinder at least the affectuall working
power from the Lord to subdue the actuall possession of diuels during especially that primary age immediately succeeding the Apostles of Christ And this also for the more admirable watering of that selfesame Gospel of saluation so admirably planted before by Christ himselfe and his chosen Apostles Lycanthropus And how next in consideration of the churches successiue Orthodoxus The ecclesiasticall mediate power more especially respecting the churches successiue was some certeine imagined faculty ability or force in some certeine peculier persons for the timely expelling of spirits and diuels from out of newly borne infants before their admission to baptisme Hauing also for that speciall purpose their Exorcists and Exorcismes peculierly appointed thereto Which said order or rather disorder of Exorcizing in as much as it wants the warrant of the word and for that also it foisteth very odly into the church such new found offices and officers as neuer were planted by Christ it was neuer yet iustifiable in the court of conscience and we woonder not at all though the same being no plant of the almighty his planting be now plucked vp quite by the rootes Loe these be those seuerall sorts of Exorcizings which were euer yet practized in the true church of Christ since the very first time the Gospel began to be preached among them And these Exorcizings also by some others of speciall account are distinquished or intituled thus namely they are either archicall apostolicall ecclesiasticall or infanticall Howbeit respecting perspiâ—uity or plainesse and for that especially they come all to one and the selfesame period we do rather the more purposely retaine our own order rehearsed before Exorcistes But tel me I pray you were there no other sorts of Exorcizings at any time practized but these fower which your selfe haue expressed Orthodoxus Yes there hath euer beene and will be to the end of the world a certeine conterfeite or fained faculty pretended by some for expelling the possession and power of the diuel and the same also vndoubtedly proceeding from a preposterous emulation or rather from an apishimitation of that selfesame extraordinary power apparantly euident in the Apostolicall or primitiue church For in all ages of the world some certeine od persons are wonderfully affected with either glory or gaine at the least These men therefore perceiuing how easie a matter it was and how glorious a thing with the faithfull for any to haue power ouer diuels they eftsoones attempted or at least they pretended the selfesame power in themselues Yea and which more is euen satan also for the better enthronizing of himselfe in the seate of God as also for a more easie establishing of all his dangerous errours he in like manner attempted an apish imitation of this the admirable power of the Lord for the expelling of diuels And this his pestilent purpose he might so much the more easily effect by how much he plainely perceiued that the miraculous faith did not necessarily require such special persons only as were vpright with God and righteous before men Perceiuing therefore that the very hipocrites also and reprobate wretches men fit for his purpose might fully participate with that selfesame speciall power for the admirable expelling of spirits and diuels as well as the other Satan himselfe he also vndertooke that selfesame enterprise and began by himselfe and his instruments to practise the like And this said counterfeit or fained facultie for expelling the power of spirits and diuels is also foretold Namely Satanicall Ethnicall Iudaicall and Papisticall Lycanthropus What meane you by the Satanicall facultie Orthodoxus That selfesame Thrasonicall brag or that Spanish-like Brauado wherwith the diuel adiured our Sauiour Christ as though by his great wordes he could skar or by his Exorcizing power he would binde our Sauiour himselfe beyond the vtmost borders of Egypt saying I adiure or coniure thee thou Christ that thou torment me nothing at all Howbeit his successe in that proude enterprise was not vnlike to the proude Spaniards successe in eightie eight for notwithstanding any their magicall skill or Thersites-like vaunts they were both constrayned to get home by weeping crosse with confusion and shame to themselues Pneumatomachus And what meane you by the Ethnicall facultie Orthodoxus That Satanicall pretended power which Satan did seeme to practise by heathenish persons as by his organicall instruments for that speciall purpose howbeit such as were strangers and forreiners from the Church of Christ. These men notwithstanding by christals by rings by stones by hearbs and such other like fooleries they would seeme to doe something in shew at the least Philologus And what meane you by the Iudaicall facultie Orthodoxus That selfesame Satanicall violence which the diuell also by those his pharisaicall organons endeuoured to establish and to communicate from hand to hand vnto all the posterity following And these Iudaicall adiurations they were so much the more dangerous by how much the patrones and professors thereof did in outward appearance at least more neerely approch to the Church of God And for that also by an execrable and blasphemous prophaning of that sacred and vnexpresable name of the Lord tetragrammaton they verie pestilently pretended the powerfull establishment of their pestilent practises Yea and which more is so soone as the holy name of our Sauiour Christ began to be admirably and powerfully published abroad they eftsoones also abused that glorious name in euery of their said exorcismes adiurations or coniuring attempts Imagining the honorable name of Iesus to be much more powerfull for that speciall purpose then the name tetragrammaton was euer before And hereof it came also to passe that the seuen sonnes of Sceua the Iewe being stirred vp with a like counterfeit zeale did thereby vndertake to adiure the diuels to their cost Exorcistes Not so for Cyprian very flatly affirmeth that the diuels gaue place to their said coniurations Orthodoxus No such matter at all appeeres in the text Nay it telleth vs rather that the euill spirits ranne violently vpon those Coniurours ouercame them and preuailed against them insomuch as the Coniurours fledde foorth of that house all naked and wounden Nowe these kindes of Exorcismes were very ordinarie among manie in those daies which were not of the Colledge of Christ yea and some of them also but reprobates Which declareth plainely vnto vs that the gift of myracles was then indifferently bestowed vpon good and bad so farre off was it that any holines of that instrument effected the worke Lycanthropus And what meane you by the papisticall facultie Orthodoxus That selfesame presupposed Satanicall power which was compounded partly of Gentilisme and partly also of Iudaisme as a verie mingle-mangle or hotchpotch of all the Magicall sorceries of satan consolidate fully in one filthie confection to the more dangerous deceiuing of vnstable and ignorant persons For first they had their lygatures their herbes their consecrated verum their rootes
more especially procure an apparant effect of spirituall graces to shinefoorth in some soule where they shone not before therefore the spirit of God may then be said truely to enter into such a soule because the efficacie thereof doth more effectuallie and more apparently breake foorth to the view of our eies And euen after this selfesame sort I assure you we are to vnderstand in this place the vertue going foorth from our Sauiour Christ to the curing of others because the Diuine vertue it selfe perpetually existing in the person of Christ at that verie same instant did more effectually cause health in those the diseased parties So then howsoeuer this place may serue verie fitly to shew foorth the efficacie of Christ his vertue in curing diseases it helpeth nothing at all to vnderprop your pestilent opinion of a vertue or power essentially proceeding from your owne or anie mans person for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels Exorcistes But tell me I beseech you was that miraculous curing of people by those selfesame touchings of Christ a worke of his Diuinitie onely or of his humanitie also Physiologus This I must shew you for certeine that Leo himselfe verie flatlie affirmeth all the miraculous actions effected by Christ to be effectually wrought by his Diuinitie onely For seeing saith Leo there are vndoubtedly in the person of Christ two distinct or essentiall natures the one Diuine which shineth foorth by extraordinarie miraculous actions and the other humane which doth solely vndergoe all offered iniuries It foloweth necessarily that looke how the humane nature applieth it selfe to the vndergoing of iniuries euen so the diuine nature disposeth it selfe to the effecting of myracles But the humane nature alone applieth it selfe to the vndergoing of iniuries because to suffer at all is a thing vtterly opposite to the nature of the Deitie therefore the Diuine nature alone it likewise disposeth it selfe to the admirable effecting of miracles because the effecting of such surmounteth the compasse of Christ his created humanitie according to that of Dauid Ichouah alone doth wondrous things Againe the miraculous actions they do highlie exceed the whole power of any created nature But the humanitie of Christ it is onely a created nature therefore the humanitie of Christ of it selfe can effect no miraculous actions Lycanthropus This I suppose is vndoubtedly true and without contradiction at all Physiologus It is so I confesse being warely and wiâ—ely vnderstood else there may lie some exceptions against it For the comparison it holdes verie fitlie in this one respect Namely that as the humanitie of Christ alone was a reason or cause of his vndergoing the offred iniuries so surely the Diuinitie of Christ alone it was also the reason or primarie efficient cause of his effecting the miraculous actions Howbeit that selfesame comparison it holdeth not so currantly in a second respect For howsoeuer it is no waies repugnant vnto the humanitie of Christ to be also an effector of miracles instrumentally yet is it quite contrarie vnto the Diuinitie of Christ to suffer afflictions in any respect I meane either principally or instrumentally because the diuinitie it selfe is wholy impassible Although yet I dare not denie but that in an onely especiall regard of the supposed identitie or communicable proprieties of both natures in the one person of Christ that which is truely said of the one may be as true said of the other For first respecting the whole person of Christ it is not vntruely said that the Godhead did suffer againe respecting the whole person of Christ it may as truely be said that this childe meaning Christ created the heauens Because Christ himselfe is that eternall word of the father whereby all things in the beginning were created and made And therefore that sentence of Dauid who saith that Iehouah alone doth wondrous things it is not so to be taken as happily you would haue vs imagine For the word alone in that place it excludes not the humanitie of Christ as any instrumentall but onely as a meere principall agent in working woondrous things Exorcistes But sir notwithstanding this your cunning distinction it is verie apparant that euen the humanitie of Christ alone as a principall agent it selfe did worke sundrie miraculous cures in sundrie diseased persons for so many as but touched his bodie yea or the hemme of his garment they were presently healed Now then if those selfesame touchings of Christ did not effectually worke in those the aforesaid cures it must necessarily follow that Christ did something in vaine But Christ he did nothing in vaine therefore euen those the aforesaid touchings themselues did effectually worke in those the forenamed cures Howbeit those sensible touchings they were onely meere actions of Christ his humanitie therefore Christ his onely humanitie did principally and effectually worke in all those the forenamed cures which succeeded those sensible touchings Physiologus Christ he healed so many as handled him spiritually by the apprehension of faith not all such as onely but touched him corporally by corporall sense Otherwise if onely a sensible touching of Christ or his garments had principally and effectually beene able of it selfe alone to worke those selfesame cures then Iudas that kissed him the souldiers that stripped him the high priests seruants that smote him yea and the rest of the people that thronged and pressed vpon him had beene euerie of them also effectually amended of all their maladies Howbeit saith Beda onely those men alone doe truely and effectually handle our Sauiour Christ who spiritually receiue his faith and his loue in their harts So then for a more plaine vnderstanding of our matters in question it shall not be amisse to proceed more exactly vnto a more orderly consideration of all miraculous actions and this also in a double respect Namely either principally or instrumentally First if we take due consideration of the working of miracles principallie I meane according to their primarie or proper efficient then are we bound without contradiction to beleeue and confesse that all miraculous and supernaturall actions do highly surmount the whole power of euerie creature whatsoeuer and are onely peculiar to Iehouah himselfe who alone doth woondrous things Yea this is vndoubtedly true that no one supernaturall action how simple soeuer in shew may possiblie be effected by any other power principally but by the onely supereminent power of El-shaddai alone I meane that al-sufficient omnipotent and almightie Iehouah himselfe Who is an vnmeasurable mountaine of goodnes the onely true cherishing dug that is neuer drawne drie yea and who only accomplisheth whatsoeuer he wils in heauen and in earth at what time in what place and after what maner best pleaseth himselfe Howbeit if we respect the working of miraculous actions but instrumentally I meane onely according to their secondary or instrumentall cause then must we in
so it seemes againe by your speach that the Apostles of Christ were neuer acquainted before with any of those principall spirits which made them so vnreadie in that vnwoonted occurrent wherewith they were then ouertaken Besides that a man might greatly woonder how your selfe should so readily perceiue the diuell at Mahgnitton to be a diuell of that selfesame kinde in meeting with him so fitly at the first onset of all by your prayer and fasting were it not that by your long experience you are now growen such an experimented practitioner concerning the Infernall hierarchie as both you know how to conuent before you eche seuerall diuell in his seuerall kinde and which way to conuince him by his speciall name Neither may this be deemed any matter impossible for your selfe to effect at this present who a dozen yeeres since at the least could coniure foorth seuen at a clap by their seuerall names Telling the beholders thereof in what moment of time ech diuell tooke his leaue and by what speciall name he was properly called Surely this makes many wise men imagine that either you are a man profoundly experienced in the Cabalisticall craft or that else you haue too too strangely a long time deluded the simpler sort In bearing them falsely in hand that onely by your prayer and fasting you doe fully apprehend an extraordinarie power from the Lord for the powerfull expelling of diuels whereas Christ the true wisedome of the father doth tell vs that such an extraordinarie power is onely apprehended by a speciall faith Affirming withall that this speciall faith it hath prayer and fasting annexed vnto it as the onely supporters thereof and no actors at all in the admirable effecting of any such accident Exorcistes Oh then I perceiue you haue a long time mistaken my meaning For howsoeuer I vrged the holy exercise of prayer and fasting as an appointed meanes for the powerful expelling of spirits my purpose therein was neuer to exclude the action of faith it being an effectuall apprehender of that selfe same extraordinarie power of the Lord which so powerfully effecteth the worke Orthodoxus If this be your meaning we shall haue you at a non plus before it be long For seeing now you make faith an actor in that your preposterous enterprise doe tell vs directly what faith you meane Whether the historicall the iustifying or the miraculous faith for the dead faith I am certaine it was not Exorcistes Neither could it be the historicall faith because that hath onely a speciall relation but to the bare historie of the Bible it selfe without any apprehension at all of the power of God As for the miraculous faith that is thought to be ceased long since And therefore it was and is onely a iustifying faith which apprehended that power of the Lord by vertue also whereof any godly Minister or others might as effectually haue performed that action as I did my selfe Orthodoxus I am iust of your minde for that matter Howbeit if an only iustifying faith may effect such an action then hath that faith some certeine word concerning such workes with a speciall promise of such an effect But in all the whole Scriptures neither word nor promise concerning such purpose is any where extant and therefore the iustifying faith could not possiblie effect such an action Exorcistes Yes sir the iustifying faith it hath an apparant word and a promise both concerning such matter and that also from our sauiour himselfe who told the possessed childs father that if he could beleeue it his faith should vndoubtedly haue an effect because all things are possible to him that beleeueth And therewithall vpon the profession of the fathers faith our sauiour did presently expel the euil spirit from his sonne Orthodoxus You huddle vp your reckoning without your host and must therefore be enforced to reckon afresh For be it supposed our sauiour in that place doth vndoubtedly speake of a iustifying faith yet is it certeine that Christ meaneth not there the Exorcists faith but the faith of the parties possessed And so by consequence it was not your owne but the yoongman his faith at Mahgnitton that draue foorth the diuel Exorcistes Very true his faith apprehending but my faith effecting the action Orthodoxus You do ouer grosly forget your selfe For not long since it was the supernaturall power of the Lord that effected the action your owne faith apprehending onely that effectuall working power Howbeit your iustifying faith now it being but a bare apprehender before is become the powerfull effectour and the possessed mans faith the bare apprehender of that admirable action Notwithstanding whatsoeuer you dreame of Christs words concerning faith for the action he speaketh there onely of a faith in the partie the verie want whereof was that which hindred his owne disciples from effecting the worke And for this onely respect our sauiour in that partâ—ie alone reprooueth the incredulitie of that faithles generation who hauing had so long experience of his diuine operations were yet no better in the faith then the heathenish infidels Yea such a grosse incredulitie was also the very maine cause why our Sauiour himselfe at Nazaret either could not or would not worke many myracles Not that his ineuitable power was vnable of it selfe to ouerswaie their palpable impiettie but for that the Lord hauing solemnly decreed the powerfull effecting of those admirable actions by an interposition of the parties owne faith apprehending his power and by other good meanes correspondent thereto their owne vnbeliefe and hardnes of hart had so much as they might verie fearefully foreclosed the bottomles fountaine of those his spirituall graces from flowing among them Whereas on the otherside he readily yeeldeth to the timely requests of such as beleeue whatsoeuer they craue concerning those admirable actions By all the premisses then it is too too apprantly euident that Christ in this place he speaketh onely of the parties possessed and not of the Exorcistes faith at all Exorcistes But Christ afterwards told his Disciples that their owne vnbeliefe was the cause why they could not cast foorth the diuell Protesting withall that if they had but so much true faith as one graine of mustard seed they should haue beene able thereby to remooue mountaines out of their places Orthodoxus Do you vnderstand Christs words in that place of the iustifying faith alone Exorcistes Yea why not Orthodoxus Aske you why not Why man by this meanes you would bring vs in doubt of the Apostles iustification and which more is you do verie blasphemously derogate from the authoritie and dignitie of their authenticall writings Exorcistes Nay sir I call not their iustification in question but do onely declare what was the principall stoppage to that speciall action namely the not effectuall working power of their owne faith for the present Orthodoxus Well yet by the tenour of your speech you would haue vs imagine at least that the
iustifying faith of Christs disciples did oftentimes ebbe and flowe with the moone because howsoeuer the same was alwaies inherently dwelling within their harts the efficacie thereof for that present was suddenly falne to a verie low ebbe And which more is we must by the purport of your speech be further perswaded that verie many whom Christ in the generall iudgement will finally and iustly reiect as workers of iniquitie they had once notwithstanding the true iustifying faith in themselues howsoeuer they finally fell from the same For many of them also did in Christs name as effectually and as powerfully driue foorth the diuels from people possessed as did any of the rest how holy soeuer And so by consequence howsoeuer the callings and gifts of God to saluation be without repentance verie manie notwithstanding they may and do loose their iustifying faith and finally fall from the grace of God This as it strengthneth verie shrewdly the popish opinion of falling from grace so doth it mightily weaken that vndoubted assurance of the sauing faith in all the elect Exorcistes Let it strengthen or weaken whatsoeuer it will verie certaine I am that the iustifying faith may effect such a worke Orthodoxus If you meane such a worke as your faith effected at Mahgnitton of late we are growne to an issue Howbeit if you imagine that the iustifying faith may miraculously driue foorth a diuell then all the elect how vnexpert soeuer they also are sufficiently able to cast foorth spirits and diuels if they please For they are all mutually interessed in the selfesame iustifying faith and do iointly participate with all the prerogatiues thereof whatsoeuer as well as any of the rest Yea then those other preachers also who seuerally and at sundrie times did deale with the partie possessed they might as effectually haue dispatched that matter as you did your selfe vnlesse haply you imagine them but reprobates concerning the faith Besides all this if the driuing out of diuels from men be as you would haue vs imagine the vndoubted effect of a iustifying faith it must necessarily folow that so manie as cannot effect such a worke they may doubt of their iustification in Iesus Christ. Yea and those other Preachers also who eftsoones before and with your owne selfe at that present attempted the matter in vaine they may begin to make some scruple of conscience concerning the soundnes of their iustification for their faith could effect no such worke Briefly if the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels be in deed as your selfe doth auouch the essentiall effect of a iustifying faith then surely that selfesame effect so highlie surmounting verie many of the rest it would vndoubtedly haue beene reckoned vp in some one of those places at least where the other effects of that faith are purposely registred by the spirit of God Howbeit this powerfull expelling of diuels is not anie where mentioned amongst those other essentiall fruits of iustifying faith and therefore the same is no essentiall effect of anie such faith Exorcistes But in the xvj of Marke this powerfull expelling of spirits or diuels is principally put downe as an infallible effect of the faith of the Gospell For after our Sauiour Christ had spoken these words he that beleeueth and is baptized he shall be saued he that beleeueth not shall be damned then he addeth foorthwith and these tokens shall follow them that beleeue In my name they shall cast foorth Diuels speake with new toongs take away Serpents drinke any deadly thing without hurt yea and but euen lay their hands on the sicke and they shall recouer Loe all these you see are most admirable eflects Yet such I assure you as doe vndoubtedly succeed a iustifying faith in Iesus Christ. Orthodoxus I doe greatly mislike your assurance for these matters how admirable soeuer in shew they are no essentiall effects of a iustifying faith Neither were they at any time absolutely or simply but after a sort as it were the signes or tokens of faith and serued only for that primitiue age wherein the Gospel of Christ was first to be preached abroad in the world That selfesame primarie preaching of the Gospell hauing by the vnsearchable prouidence of God such signes and tokens euen purposely annexed vnto it as trumpets or criers to summon all sorts of hearers vnto the kingdome of Christ. For euen as Moses his lawe in mount Sinai and throughout the wide wildernes did gaine a woonderfull auctoritie vnto it selfe by reason of the manifold miracles effected by Moses and Aaron which said miracles notwithhanding so soone as the people of Israell possessed the promised Land did foorthwith determine So surely those selfesame miraculous actions which in the primitiue church did credit and grace the Gospell of Christ so soone as the Gospell it selfe was vniuersally published abroad in the world they foorthwith did cease and grow out of vse By all which it is verie apparant that those admirable effects they were onely but temporarie and personall prerogatiues more especially appertayning to some speciall persons accordingly as it seemed good to the Lord to bestow them himselfe in the seuerall distributions of those his seuerall graces Howbeit because those speciall graces thus personally bestowed on some few did publikely tend to the publike profit of all the elect and for that those admirable actions so admirably effected by some one peculiar person did generally serue for an vndoubted confirmation of the faith in all it therefore pleased the holy Ghost in that place indefinitely to name the beleeuers themselues as though that which was done by some one or a few had beene generally effected by all the faithfull Exorcistes Howsoeuer he speakes but of one or a few of the faithfull very certeine I am that the miraculous actions mentioned there they are such essentiall tokens as do vndoubtedly succeed the sauing faith of the Gospel Orthodoxus That those tokens succeeded the preaching of the Gospel we do neuer deny but whether they do follow the preaching of the Gospel as the essentiall effects of that iustifying faith which mutually belongeth to all the elect is the very issue of the question betweene vs the which I am willing if you please that Maister Beza doe determine for vs both in this sort To another is giuen faith by the same spirit This is not that faith saith Beza which belongeth indifferently to all the beleeuers in Christ for the Apostle in this place entreateth onely of some certeine speciall gifts of the spirit and therefore this speciall faith it hath a speciall relation vnto the effectuall power of God in working of miracles so far foorth especially as some speciall persons endued with that special gift were especially directed therin by some secret motion from the spirit of God This therefore is that faith which we call in the schooles the miraculous faith whereof an expresse mention more especially is made in the seauenteene
faith is most generall and reacheth euen to the reprobates in so much as satan also himselfe is thought to enioy it according to that of Iames. Thou beleeuest there is one God thou dost well the diuels also they beleeue and tremble The second kind of faith is onely that sauing faith of the Adopted sonnes by which they are firmely incorporate saued in Christ. Of this faith the Euangelist speaketh not heere neither yet can they that haue this sauing faith effect any miracles by vertue thereof The third kinde of faith is onely a particular faith in some certaine speciall persons and the same not alwaies in force but hath her speciall times and peculiar reasons annexed vnto her This kinde of faith may fitly be called a particular or singular faith it being the singular gift of the holy Ghost and hauing from thence her singular directions as the Apostle declareth saying to another is giuen faith by the same spirit The which without doubt must in no wise be vnderstood of the iustifying faith because this being peculiar to some one or a fewe the iustifying faith it belongeth indifferently to all the elect This miraculous faith it saueth none nor changeth the minde neither is any man bettered thereby the woorth of one haire Yea and it is also eftsoones bestowed vpon manie reprobate persons who will say vnto Christ in the general iudgement Lord Lord haue we not by thy name prophesied and by thy name cast out diuels and by thy name done manie great workes to whom he will answer I neuer knew you depart from me yee workers of iniquitie Againe saith the Apostle If I had al faith so as I could remooue mountaines and haue no loue I am euen as nothing Of this faith our Sauiour speaketh in the place you alleage saying If you had faith so much as is a graine of mustard seede and should say to this mountaine remooue hence to yonder place it should foorthwith obey you By all these testimonies it is very apparant that Christ in that parcell of Scripture which you produce for your purpose speaketh nothing at all of the iustifying faith in Iesus Christ. Exorcistes Howsoeuer your selfe doe conclude and those your contestes may seeme to confirme those tokens which Christ puts downe in that place they are I am sure the essentiall signes or effects of a iustifying faith Orthodoxus Although by reason of a selfe conceit the iudgement of learned diuines be vnable to ouersway your setled partinacie concerning this point yet let the absurditie of your owne speech enforce you at the least to forsake such a palpable errour for shame For if the tokens put downe in that place be indeed and in truth the essentiall and ordinarie effects of a true iustifying faith as you would beare vs highly in hand then surely this palpable absurditie must necessarily ensue so absurd an assertion Namely that either there are none now in these daies of the Gospell who may truely be said to be iustified or that now at the least we haue the true iustifying faith in another edition quite differing from that which was then in the primitiue Church For verie certeine I am that no Christians now how holie soeuer are able by the onely efficacie of their iustifying faith to driue out a spirit or diuell in any possessed howsoeuer your selfe durst so boldly I will not say blindly aduenture vpon such a woonderfull worke Exorcistes Sir you doe ouer grosly abuse me with girding quippes I would you knew it I did not blindlie vndertake that admirable enterprice as your selfe doth bluntly imagine Orthodoxus My imaginations herein are nothing so blunt as the bluntnes of your cause doth require For if the vndertaking of such an admirable enterprise without some apparant directions and warrant from the word be but a walking in darkenes yea a verie desperate and a blinde rushing vpon the worke it selfe then I hope I do not grosly abuse you with girding quippes because it is lawfull to call darkenes darkenes But your selfe did vndertake that admirable enterprise without any apparant directions or warrant at all from the worde as hath beene sufficiently declared and therefore you rushed but blindly vpon that woonderfull worke So then the premisses you see being dulie considered you are now enforced perforce to confesse that either you draue foorth no diuell at all from the yoongman at Mahgnitton or that else you draue him foorth at the least by the onely meanes of a miraculous faith Howbeit the miraculous faith you may at no hand auouch in that action because you disclaimed the same but euen now as a thing ceased long since Exorcistes Not so I onely affirmed that the miraculous faith it was thought of some to be ceased long since but told you not what opinion I hold my owne selfe concerning that matter Orthodoxus Are you opinionate then concerning this point Let vs heare I beseech you your proper opinion and tell vs without anie doubling whether you hold for certeine that the miraculous faith is yet still continued in these daies of the Gospell Exorcistes If I auouch the continuance thereof it is no heresie I hope Orthodoxus A man by the course of your speech may giue a shroud gesse concerning the length of your foote Howbeit the night is farre spent and I am ouer wearie to hold out the controuersie without a breathing fitte at the least Let vs therefore breake off for a little short space and then set vpon it afresh For I am vnwilling to giue ouer the conference now before the matters be brought to some better perfection Lycanthropus Gods name be blessed for your Christian care in doing vs good and we willingly yeeld to your motion Orthodoxus Arise then let vs go walke a turne or two in my parlour Philologus We attend on your person The end of the ninth Dialogue The tenth Dialogue THE ARGVMENT Whether a miraculous faith apprehending the power of God for the powerfull expelling of Diuels be yet still continued What a true miracle is And whether the working of miracles be now fully determined in the Churches of Christ The speakers names PHILOLOGVS LYCANTHROPVS PNEVMATOMACHVS PHYSIOLOGVS ORTHODOXVS EXORCISTES Orthodoxus A Pennie-woorth of ease I perceiue is woorth a pennie Oh how this little recreation hath reuiued my wearied spirits Do not you also verie sensiblie perceiue the self-same effect in your selues Physiologus Yes sir blessed be God for the same For my owne part I feele my selfe as liuely in bodie as sharpe in conceit yea and as fit for the conference as I was at the first beginning Lycanthropus The same I dare say for my selfe and the rest Orthodoxus Let vs then go roundly to worke Come on Exorcistes tell vs in good sadnes doe you hold it for certaine that the miraculous faith is yet still continued in these daies of the Gospell Exorcistes What reason haue you to imagine the contrarie Orthodoxus What reason I will giue
the powerfull execution of which Processe he so canuassed that cumbersome Spirit as he was glad to betake himselfe to the vttermost borders of Aegypt and euer since then the countrey hath beene free from such dangerous bug-boyes and therefore you may boldly submit your selfe Exorcistes If I submit to this motion my credit is crackt in the world Orthodoxus Why stand you so much vpon your outward reputation before the face of the world against the plaine euidence of your inward conscience in the presence of God Or why will you in this case especially so fondly respect the flying reports of phantasticall felowes What will it preiudice your person though blind ignorance should cancell your credit in the transitorie tables of worldly mens harts when your owne conscience doth not rase foorth your name from the euerlasting Booke of the liuing Put case that those good reports which the world doth affoord you be not found to be faithfully registred in the closet of your conscience then what other effect can they cause in the same but an inward tormenting torture Put case againe that those bad reports wherewith the vile world would besmeere your credit among men be found vtterly false in the consistory of your secret conscience Oh what an exceeding great ioy will be resident there and keepe in the same a continuall feast So then if your owne conscience accuse you not you must not so greatly regard the causeles contumelies of cinicall censurers as that for the same you care not to torture your conscience with continuall torments Neither may you be perswaded that other mens lying reportes are esteemed more authenticall before the tribunall seat of Christ the righteous Iudge then the approoued testimonie of your owne conscience which stands there to be acquited in iudgement The premisses therefore considered I would aduise you rather to respect conscience then fame for fame may oftsoones be forged but so can conscience neuer and therefore submit your selfe Exorcistes Alas sir I am by the verie force of your speech so fearefully distracted as I wotte not which waies to turne me For if I stande out as hitherto I haue done you will repute me to be peeuishly obstinate on the otherside by submitting my selfe to your motion I should but confirme the Bishop in their badde opinion concerning my cause Who suspecting me to be confederate with the boie in some cosening practise haue hitherto handled me too too hardly Orthodoxus Your setled pertinancie in so apparant an vntruth hath bred in euerie of them that bad opinion and your peeuish persisting therein doth more fully confirme them in such a conceit Touching their hard proceeding against your person if you simply respect the cause they could do no lesse then they did although yet respecting especially your place and calling it were to be wished that as well on their as on your owne behalfe a more considerate regard had beene giuen to the maine cause it selfe without any such eger persute or preposterous apologies cōcerning matters of fact For then so soone as it had been made apparantly euident that there are now no possessions at all your standing out in the matter would foorthwith haue beene nipt in the head Whereas they now suspecting perhaps that you had some sinister purpose to manage your publike fasts by such a pretended false miracle haue shewed the more sharpenes and your selfe on the otherside surmizing it may be that they onely maligning the puritie of your pretended profession haue continued so much the more obstinate All which inconsiderate courses and preposterous practises would haue beene fitly forestalled if betweene you all the cause it selfe had beene cleered Howbeit the remedie comes neuer vnseasonablie which may fully effect the cure and that I assure my selfe may yet be accomplished by your dutifull and humble submission Exorcistes Sir notwithstanding anie your patheticall perswasions the premisses considered I may in no wise submit Physiologus Master Orthodoxus that which hath beene hitherto spoken may fully suffice to perswade any reasonable person affecting the sincere truth with freedome of conscience Howbeit this fellow I perceiue he is wholie ouerswaied with some spiced singularitie or with a peeuish selfewill at the least in not submitting himselfe to that truth which he is vnable to answer for any thing hitherto heard You haue I confesse beene toiled too much respecting especially your present meditations for the Sabaoth daies exercise and therefore it shall not be amisse to put an end to our conference In the meane time let Exorcistes repaire to his familiar friendes and those of his faction how many or mightie soeuer Let him intimate our whole discourse to their approoued iudgements Let them dulie consider and exactly perpend the seuerall points and then let them in a more mature deliberation deuise with themselues whether it be better for the man to submit or still to stand out as he doth If they aduise him to yeeld a submission we haue our harts desire and God the whole glorie If otherwise they will haue him standfast to his tackling Let then signifie the manner how with the time and place for our meeting and we will be readie from time to time to conferre with them to the full if they accept of our offer Lycanthropus This is in my simple conceite a Christian motion Pneumatomachus If they dislike they shall greatly discredit their cause Physiologus They are bound to praise God for your Christian care Orthodoxus Well then in the meane time we will pray vnto God to enlighten our iudgements to make vs wise to sobrietie and to giue vnto vs the spirit of discretion that we may be able to discerne the things that differ and to approoue only of those things which are pleasing to God in Iesus Christ and so I take my leaue for the present 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Soli Deo gloria 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 A summarie Table of all the principall points the speciall matters the seuerall syllogismes and the sundrie expositions of such places of Scripture as are any way pertinent to the maine purpose it selfe The first Dialogue pag. 1. CHristian conferences and their commendable vse pag. 2. Sommers his supposed passions put downe 4 Mans nature is euer desirous of Nouelties 6 Christian exercises must be begun with praier 7 Pneumatomachus what it properly signifieth 8 That there are essentiall spirits and diuels 9 Angels are celestiall creatures created of God ibid. Spirits and diuels supposed to be nothing else but the good or euill motions in men ibid. Angels supposed to be none other thing els but the sensible signes of Gods woonderfull power ibid. It is dangerous to denie the essentiall being of spirits and diuels 11 Man is endued with a spirituall and immortall soule ibid. The originall fountaines or grounds of all errors 12 Physiologus and what the same signifieth 13 Philosophie is not simplie forbidden Col. 2. 8. ibid. The true vse of Philosophie expressed ibid. The minde what
appointed praier and fasting an onely effectuall meanes for the powerfull expelling of diuels he notwithstanding all this doth make a speciall choice of persons of places and times for the more orderly effecting of euerie such admirable enterprise Orthodoxus Your answeres without doubt are suddenly fallen to such deadly debate among themselues as the one is readie to pull out the throate of the other by reason of some bad disposition or present defect in your memorie For praier fasting ere while was the only appointed meanes to expel the power of the diuel and now the efficacie thereof is restrained to places times It was not long since a publike ordinance appointed generallie for all men and now it is imposed vpon some speciall persons Not long since it might well be effected by the partie himselfe and his parents but now the powerfull dispatch thereof is peculiar onely to preachers and pastours Not long since it was an ordinarie power incident to any godly Minister or others but no Minister now how godlie soeuer hath the good hap to hit on that matter saue onely your selfe Thus then you see that as the disease so also the cure it doth ebbe and flowe with the Moone Howbeit these doubtfull vncerteinties doe sauour verie shrewdly of some legerdemaine at the least And howsoeuer your selfe auouching that God maketh speciall choise of persons of places and times woulde cunningly shelter your cause vnder Augustines credite verie certeine I am that the same is onely a Iesuiticall iuggling deuise and therefore it deserueth the selfesame answere with theirs For be it that the Lord as Augustine saith doth make a speciall choice of persons of places and times for the orderly effecting of euery such admirable action this prooueth not that the power of working myracles continueth still to this present Onely it sheweth that whensoeuer the Lord worketh any woonderfull worke he is free to make choise of persons of places and times as seemeth best to his wisedome And therefore admitting all this for a truth do tell me withall by what meanes you are certeine that the Lord made speciall choise of your selfe for such speciall busines Exorcistes Why sir the verie effect it selfe doth fully declare the truth of the matter for I cast foorth the diuell Orthodoxus Be it that some such effect as your selfe surmizeth did forthwith succeed your saide enterprize yet forsomuch as your selfe did no more in the matter then was ordinarily incident you say to any godly preacher or others how comes it to passe that those other performing the very selfesame things you performed your selfe no such admirable effect should follow their labors Was it for that the rest of the Ministers were all but vngodly wretches in comparison of you Or was it so rather for that those Ministers fearing the Lord aright the Lord would not suffer their innocent soules to be falsly seduced by any such sleights or for that you your selfe being at that time more destitude of grace had for the present some power to effect such a false deceiueable signe to your greater condemnation without speedie repentance Exorcistes Howsoeuer I may not impure a lesse measure of godlinesse to others neither yet arrogate any more to my selfe then to any of the rest verie certeine it is that onely my selfe had then the speciall power to expell the diuell Physiologus Master Orthodoxus let me argue this point Come on Exorcistes If your owne selfe as you say had then a more speciall power to expell the diuell by prayer and fasting then any of the rest that your said power it must needs be a vocall or personall power at the least My meaning is that such a speciall power it proceeded either from your prayer or your person but not from your prayer at all for the others also they prayed and fasted as deuoutly as you did your selfe albeit in vaine and therefore your prayer of it selfe it could haue no more power then theirs vnlesse hapily you haue some speciall prayer for that speciall purpose beyond the rest of your brethren Yea and when all comes to all it was not your prayer but your preaching it should seeme that expelled the diuell Againe if such a speciall power proceeded from your person alone then surely that selfe same personall power it was either some naturall or supernaturall power at the least Howbeit a meere naturall power it might not possibly be because no created or meere naturall power may possibly extend foorth it selfe to any such supernaturall action as hath been sufficiently shewed before Exorcistes That followeth not For the body of Christ it was vndoubtedly a created or true naturall body and yet notwithstanding there went vertue or power from out of the same for the admirable curing of people And therefore if it so seemed good to the Lord for the glory of his name why might not some power in like manner proceed from my person for the timely expelling of that spirit or diuel Physiologus Besides your shamelesse pride in matching your body with the body of Christ you do monstrously mistake the very point of your purpose For do you imagine that there went any power essentially from out of the body of Christ for the admirable curing of any Exorcistes I make no question thereof And the scripture it telleth vs plainly that the whole multitude thronged to touch him for there proceeded vertue out of him and healed them all Physiologus Though it be said in the text that vertue proceeded out of Christ to the curing of many yet that must not be vnderstood as though any vertue essentially existing in the naturall body of Christ did passe foorth essentially from him vnto others in that selfesame absolute number no but this proceeding of vertue from the bodie of Christ vnto others is so farre foorth to be accounted a going foorth as the effect may be said to proceed from the cause Or it is to be interpreted according to the maner of a cause producing an effect The which are said to go foorth the one from the other in as much as the verie cause it selfe doth apparantly shine foorth in that selfesame effect which it worketh And euen after such a manner we must vnderstand this matter in question Because the Diuine vertue it selfe essentially existing in the person of Christ did effectually procure present health to the parties oppressed Otherwaies how must that text be vnderstood which telleth vs that the wisedome of God being but one the same can do all things it selfe that it renueth all and entreth eueh into the holie soules making them the friends and prophets of God Now sir because it is said he entreth into the holie soules must we therefore imagine the holie spiriâ— of God to be any where now where it was not before not so for the same of necessitie at all times and seasons is euerie where present Howbeit because the holie spirit of God doth then