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A15093 The way to the true church wherein the principall motiues perswading according to Romanisme and questions touching the nature and authoritie of the church and scriptures, are familiarly disputed, and driuen to their issues, where, this day they sticke betweene the Papists and vs: contriued into an answer to a popish discourse concerning the rule of faith and the marks of the church. And published to admonish such as decline to papistrie of the weake and vncertaine grounds, whereupon they haue ventured their soules. Directed to all that seeke for resolution: and especially to his louing countrimen of Lancashire. By Iohn White minister of Gods word at Eccles. For the finding out of the matter and questions handled, there are three tables: two in the beginning, and one in the end of the booke. White, John, 1570-1615. 1608 (1608) STC 25394; ESTC S101725 487,534 518

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worketh outwardly the things that are good but by a reciprocall aspect it seeth it selfe and yeeldeth assurance to the subiect In which sence Saint Austin o De trinit l. 13 c. 1. saith Euery man if he haue faith seeth it in his heart or seeth it not if he haue none And again p Lib. 8. c. 8. He that loueth his brother knoweth the charitie wherewith he loueth him better then he knoweth his brother whom he loueth 8 This is proued by the saying of Saint Paul q Rom. 8.15 We haue receiued not the spirit of bondage to feare any more but the spirit of adoption whereby we cry Abba Father and the same spirit beareth witnesse with our spirit that we are the sonnes of God Whereunto it is ridiculous to answer that this testimonie which God giueth vnto vs by his spirit is but coniecturall that is to say such as stirreth vp our vnderstanding onely vpon probable coniectures to beleeue which yet are subiect to error For so Gods spirit should manifestly deceiue vs and the spirit of bondage to feare should remaine still and his spirit should teach vs to cry Father when we are not his children and finally in giuing testimony be subiect to the same fallibilitie that ours is The same Apostle r 2. Cor. 13.5 saith Proue your selues whether you are in the faith examine your selues know ye not that Christ is in you except ye be reprobates To what purpose should men examine themselues if they can find no infallible certaintie for they might reply againe we haue tried our selues and find Christ to be in vs by faith and charitie but we are neuer the neare we may be reprobates for all this and thy preaching hath done vs no good for the Papists tell vs our knowledge is but coniecturall and our examination cannot secure vs from feare or error which were absurd Againe he saith Å¿ Eph. 1.13 After ye beleeued the Gospell ye were sealed with the holy spirit of promise and Saint Iohn t 1. Ioh. 3.19 We know that we are of the truth and before him we shal make our hearts confident u 4.13 Hereby we know that we dwell in him and he in vs because he hath giuen vs of his spirit x 5.13 I haue written vnto you that beleeue that ye may know ye haue eternal life This sealing sheweth that the elect haue the very marke of God vpon them whereby they are infallibly distinguished from the world and the knowledge thereof which is attributed to them declareth that they see the seale and so consequently cannot be deceiued as he that seeth his seale vpon his goods thereby infallibly and not by coniecture onely knoweth them to be his owne But saying we know we haue the truth we dwell in him we haue eternall life we make our hearts confident he sheweth plainly how false it is that faith and loue cannot be knowne to be present without reuelation For all this he saith we know by that which is written and if we knew it but morally and probably without full assurance then we should be confident euen by Gods owne appointment in that which might deceiue vs. Againe Stapleton y De Iustificat l. 9. c. 13. in marg confesseth that Saint Paul pronounceth the same certaintie of other mens saluation that he doth of his owne and therefore we may haue assurance of grace and perseuerance as well as he had for z 1. Cor. 7.40 Rom. 8.38 2. Tim. 4.8 in diuers places he sheweth that he was assured of Gods spirit and grace and eternall life 9 You shall heare what the ancient Fathers say touching this matter a Hom. 17. pag. 248. Macarius saith Although they are not as yet entred into the whole inheritance prepared for them in the world to come yet through the earnest which they now receiue they are as certaine of it as if they were already crowned and raigning Neither do they thinke it strange that they shal thus raigne together with Christ by reason of the abundance and confidence of the spirit And why so Euen because being yet in the flesh they haue the tast of the sweetnes and the efficacie of the power thereof The diuell couered the soule of man with a darke veile but afterward cometh grace and putteth off that veile wholly whereby hereafter the soule is purified and made able with purenesse to behold the glory of true light and the true Sunne of righteousnesse as it were lightening in his heart Saint Austine b In Psal 149. post med saith There is a kind of glorying in the conscience when thou knowest thy faith is sincere thy hope certaine thy loue without dissembling Saint Austine therefore tooke it for granted that these things might be knowne Hierome not the ordinary doctor of that name but a Greeke writer c De baptism pag. 3. saith that as a woman with child feeleth the springing thereof in her wombe within her so the baptized by the ioy and comfort and reioycing which is wrought in the heart know that the spirit of God dwelleth in them the which they receiued in their baptisme Gregorie the Bishop of Rome d Dial l. 1. c. 1. saith The minde filled with Gods spirit hath her most euident signes euen vertue and humilitie the which if they perfectly meete in the mind then it is plaine they giue testimony that the holy Ghost is present Bernard e Epist 107. saith Who is iust but he that returneth loue to God who hath loued him The which is done when the spirit by faith reuealeth to a man the eternall purpose of God concerning his future saluation Which reuelation is nothing else but the infusion of spirituall grace whereby the deeds of the flesh are mortified and the man prepared to the kingdome of heauen Let these speeches of the ancient be well looked into and it will appeare they contain all that I haue affirmed touching the certainty of grace and saluation 10 And to what purpose do our aduersaries take such paines and deuise such shifts to answer them They say these and such like places proue there is a certaintie on Gods behalfe but not on ours as if God reuealing his certaintie to vs did not thereby create in vs the like as when a man looketh his face in a glasse he imprinteth in the glasse the same forme that is in his face They say we haue an experimentall or morall knowledge but not an infallible certaintie not assurance of faith and such like This they answer and their friends sit down contented with it whereas notwithstanding when they haue wrangled what they can they say the very same that I haue layd downe and if their words shew it not I am content you beleeue me no more For first touching the discerning of our selues whether we be in grace f Altisiod sum l. 3. pag. 165. Alexan. 3. part pag. 254. the eldest and best learned Schoolmen that I
to enlighten the people so blind and ignorant are their minds But that which Andrew said There is a boy here which hath fiue loaues two fishes must be vnderstood of the rank of Saint Peters successors that which is added make the people sit down signifieth that saluation must be offered them by teaching them the seuen sacraments 16 And whereas the Iesuite vrgeth so diligently that somethings are hard to be vnderstood yet this proueth not that the truth therefore cannot be tryed by onely Scripture because one place thereof expoundeth another which if the Iesuite will deny he must be disputed with as he that holdeth the fire hath no heate in it for against such an absurd assertion we vse no reasons but onely bid the man that holdeth it put his finger into the fire and he shall presently see whether his opinion be true or no. So let triall be made and the Iesuite shall soone see whether the Scripture be so obscure that one place thereof cannot interpret another m De Doctrin Christian lib. 2. c. 6. Austin saith There is almost nothing amōg these obscurities but in other places one may find it most plainly deliuered n Hom. 9. in 2. Cor. Chrysostom saith The Scripture euery where when it speaketh any thing obscurely interpreteth it selfe againe in another place o Comment in Esa c. 19. Hierome saith It is the manner of the Scripture after things obscure to set down things manifest that which they haue first spoken in parables to deliuer afterwards in plaine terms p Regul contract qu. 267. Basil saith The things which are doubtfull and in some places of Scripture seeme to be spoken obscurely are made plaine by those things which are euident in other places And finally q In Gen. ca. 2. Steuchius a Popish Bishop confesseth God was neuer so inhumane as to suffer the world in all ages to be tormented with the ignorance of this matter the sence of the Scripture seeing he hath not suffered one place to be in al the Scripture but if we consider it well we may interpret it For as Theodoret saith the Scripture vseth when it teacheth vs any such high matter to expound it selfe and not suffer vs to run into error Digression 11. Prouing that the Scripture it selfe hath that outward authoritie whereupon our faith is built and not the Church 17 The Canon law r Dist 37. c Relatum saith expresly The diuine Scriptures containe the whole and firme rule of the truth and out of themselues the meaning thereof must be taken So that wel may the Church by her ministery commend the rule to vs and instruct vs how to secure our consciences out of the Scripture but by it authoritie it cannot assure vs. Our faith must resolue it selfe into the authoritie of the Scripture For the authoritie of the Church in respect of vs dependeth on the authoritie of the Scriptures and is examined thereby The Church by her authoritie cannot perswade all men which heare it but the spirit of God in the Scriptures alwayes doth The Scriptures alwaies had their authoritie euen before the Churches came to them the words of the Scripture are ſ Luc. 8.11 1. Pet. 1.23 an immortall seed t 1. Cor. 2.4 the demonstration of the spirit and power u Heb. 4.12 that which is liuely and powerfull x Luc. 24.32 making our hearts to burne within vs y Ioh. 5.36.39 it giueth greater testimony to Christ then Iohn Baptist could z 2. Pet. 1.18 19 a voice from heauen is not so sure as it a 1. Ioh. 5.6 it is the spirit that beareth witnesse to the truth thereof b 1. Ioh. 5 9. and if we receiue the witnesse of men the witnesse of God is greater Finally our Sauiour c Ioh. 5.47 saith They which beleeue not Moses writings will not beleeue him and is the Churches authoritie greater then Christs d Ioh. 5.39 The Scriptures testifie of Christ e Ioh. 20.31 being written that we might beleeue in him f 1. Ioh. 5.10 and he that beleeueth in him hath a witnesse in himselfe g 2. Cor. 1.22 The earnest of the spirit is in his owne heart wherwith God hath sealed him h Ephes 2.20 We are all built vpō the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Christ himselfe being the head corner stone in whom all the building is coupled together by the spirit i 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Basil in psa 1●5 In all humane arts there be certaine principles which are knowne of themselues and beleeued for themselues without any further demonstration The Scripture containeth the principles of our faith and shall not we beleeue them or cannot we know them infallibly of themselues without we let in the authoritie of the Church 18 Where then is the Iesuites credamus Deo in the captiuating of our iudgement in obsequium Christi Yea the very k Magist 3. dist 23. Scot. 3. dist 23. q vnica Ock●● 3. q. 8. art 3. Gabr 3. d. 23. q 2. lit g. h. schoolemen say that faith is either Acquisita suasa gotten by discourse of reason and testimonie of the Church or Infusa inspirata immediatly put into our hearts by the holy Ghost inforcing the mind without further testimonie to yeeld obedience Now l Deut. 29 4. Mat. 16 17. the faith we haue of the points in Scripture is of the latter kind and so consequently not relying on the testimonie of the Church whose authority is but a created thing distinct from the first veritie m Princip fid doctrin lib. 8. cap. 20. saith D. Stapleton Alexander Hales n Part. 1. q. 1. memb 1. fides suasa inspirata saith Faith perswaded ariseth from the probabilitie of reason and faith inspired beleeueth the first truth for it selfe and this faith is aboue all knowledge * Et ad hanc disponit accept●o doctrinae sacrae and the acceptation of the holy doctrine disposeth vs to it So that our conscience stayeth it selfe o Sed vt verè plenè credat necesse habet soli veritati primae purae nudae penitus inhaerere nullā certitudinem extrinsecam requirendo Altisiod Sum. li. 2. pag 71. quem vide latiùs l. 1. praef onely vpon this diuine authoritie being of greater efficacie to perswade and hold vs then either the Church p Gal. 1.8 or an Angell from heauen 19 Let God himselfe q Lib. 5. ep 31. saith Ambrose teach me the mystery of heauen which made it not man who knoweth not himselfe whom may I beleue in the things of God better then God himselfe So also saith Saluianus r De prouid l. 3. All that men say needs reasons and witnesses but Gods word is witnesse to it selfe because it followeth necessarily that whatsoeuer the incorrupt truth speaketh must needs be an incorrupt witnes of it self Finally let these words of ſ Confess
the holy Ghost Now to be inspired of God and to be the true word of God is all one The former is written we see expresly of all Scripture therefore of euery booke and therefore the latter is also written 4 If the Iesuite reply but where is it written that these bookes which we haue be the same of whom it is said they are inspired of God or how know you the Scripture that telleth you so is the word of God I answer this is nothing to the purpose for he desireth onely to know where it is written that these bookes be the word of God and I answer him by naming the places out of the bookes themselues Digression 12. Wherein it is shewed that the Scripture proueth it selfe to be the very word of God and receiueth not authority from the Church 5 It is another question how I know this Scripture that saith so of it selfe to be the word of God for this is knowne first and principally by the illumination of Gods spirit as by the inward meanes f 1. Cor. 12.7.11 and is giuen to euery man to profit withall which worketh all things in all men and then by the testimonie of the scriptures themselues which is the outward meanes which openeth the eyes of the godly the testimonie of the Apostles and Prophets that penned them as Gods secretaries and the ministery of the Church inducing vs to assent These three latter being onely the instruments euery one in his owne order whereby God doth enlighten vs. 6 So that the certaintie of the Scripture is not written indeed with letters in any particular place or booke thereof but g See Scot. prolog in sent q. 2. Cameracens 1. q. 1. art 2. part 2. concil 1. the vertue and power that sheweth it selfe in euery line and leafe of the Bible proclaimeth it to be the word of the eternall God and the sheepe of Christ discerne the voice and light thereof as men discerne light from darknes sweet from sowre h 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Basil epist 1. ad Naz. and know children by their fauour resembling the parents the puritie and perfection of the matter the maiesty of the dispensation i Non mouent non persuadēt sacrae literae sed cogunt agitant vim inferunt Legis rudia verba agrestia sed viua sed animata flammea aculeata ad imum spiritum penetrantia hominem totum potestate mirabili transformātia Ioan. fr. Pic. Mirand exam van doctr gent. li. 2. cap. 2. Which speech of Picus is reported and commended by Posseuinus in Ciceron c. 11. the maiestie of the speech the power that it hath ouer the conscience the certaine prophecies the strange miracles contained in it the great antiquitie beyond all bookes the admirable preseruation of it against time and tyrants the sweete harmony of euery part with other the diuels rage against them that follow it the vengeance that hath pursued all such as haue not obeyed it the successe of the faith contained in it the readinesse of so many millions of men to confirme it with their bloud the testimony of aduersaries and strangers for it the simplicitie of the writers all this and much more shining to vs out of the Scripture it selfe I hope is another maner of assurance then the Church of Romes lying traditions 7 Therefore the Iesuites collection is idle if we must needs admit some other rule beside the Scripture to assure vs that there is any Scripture at all why should we not admit the same to assure vs which is the true sence for we admit both alike that is to say as we reiect the Church frō being the rule of exposition so do we also disclaime the authoritie thereof in canonization But the Iesuite is of another mind holding possible that vnlesse the authoritie of the Church did teach vs that this Scripture is canonical it should be of small credit with him as k Lib. 3. de authorit Scripturae Hosius speaketh or All the authoritie which the Scripture hath with vs dependeth of necessitie on the Churches as saith l Hier. l. 1. c. 2. Pighius or as m Epist Synod respons de authoritate Concilij pag. 700. Crab. the Councell of Basil saith That is called the holy Scripture which the Church declareth to be holy not onely the decrees and opinions of the Church be authen●icke and such as we must without contradiction stand vnto but also her deeds and customes must be vnto vs * Instar habeāt sanctarum scripturarum in steed of the Scriptures for the Scripture and the Churches custome both require the same affection and fashion or as Wolfangus Hermannus said and n Vbi supra Hosius defendeth his saying as good The Scripture is of no more authoritie then Aesops Fables but that the Church and Popes approue it All which if the Iesuite hold too then you may see what he requireth when he saith we must put some other rule then the Scriptures to assure vs both of the Scripture and of the true sence 8 But in what a miserable case are these men thus presumptuously to tell their followers that which at another time when they are out of the heate of their disputations they dare not stand to but vtterly renounce for o Catech. cap. de praecep eccl nu 16. Canisius saith We beleeue adhere and giue the greatest authoritie to the Scripture for the testimonies sake of the holy Ghost speaking in it p De verb. Dei lib. 1. cap. 2. Bellarmine saith Other meanes may deceiue me but nothing is more knowne nothing more certaine then the Scripture that it were the greatest madnesse in the world not to beleeue them the Christian world and consent of all nations with whom they haue bene in credit so many ages can witnesse they containe not mens inuentions but heauenly oracles q 3. dist 25. dub 3. Biel saith The Catholicke verities without any approofe of the Church of their owne nature are vnchangeable and vnchangeably true and so are to be reputed vnchangeably Catholicke r Comment in Tho. tom 3. p 2. 31. Venet. Gregory of Valence saith The reuelation of the Scripture is beleeued not vpon the credit of any other reuelation but for it selfe D. Stapleton confesseth two things concerning this matter which bewray the weaknesse of the Iesuites assertion ſ Defens Eccl. authorit aduer Whitak l. 1. c. 9 first that all the former writings of the Bible may be assured to vs by the latter as for example the old Testament by the authoritie of the new t Triplicat inchoat aduers Whitak in admonit Secondly that the inward testimonie of the spirit is so effectuall for the beleeuing of any point of faith that by it alone any matter may be beleeued though the Church hold her peace or neuer be heard Now if the former may receiue authoritie from the latter then we may be assured of them otherwise then by
5 when he said I would not beleeue the Gospell vnlesse the authoritie of the Church did moue me For though the testimonie of the Church by reason of mens infirmitie afore they beleeue be requisite to draw them on to consent to the Scriptures as children afore they can go hold themselues by the side of a stoole and so learne to go yet is not the credite of the Church or authority of men the thing whereby we know and distinguish the Scripture from other writings but the authoritie of Gods spirit is it that by the help of the Church worketh faith in vs. Digression 19. Touching the place of S. August cont epist. fundam cap. 5. and the matter which the Papists gather from it 4 The Papists haue a principle among them that the Scriptures receiue all their authoritie from the Church meaning thereby g Rhem. Gal. 6.2 that they are not knowne to be true neither are Christians bound to receiue them without the attestation of the Church h Ioan. de Turrecr suꝑ dist 9. Noli meis nu 4. Which testimonie declareth vnto vs which be the Scriptures and which not i Baron annal tom 1. an 53. nu 11. so that by the tradition of the Church all the Gospel receiueth his authority and is built therupon as vpon a foundatiō and cannot subsist without it Yea k Bosius de sign eccl tom 2 pag. 439. some of them write that the Scripture is not to be reckoned among such * Principia principles as before all things are to be credited but it is proued confirmed by the church * Quasi per quoddam principium as by a certain principle which hath autority to reiect allow Scripture And l D. Standish Treat of the Script c. 6. probat 3. a countriman of ours hath left written that in three points the authoritie of the Church is aboue the authoritie of the Scripture The second is for that the Church receiued the Gospel of Luke and Marke and did reiect the Gospels made by his high Apostles Thomas and Bartlemew The which speeches of theirs when the Papists haue expounded how they can yet this will be the vpshot that in all discourses concerning religion the last resolution of our faith shall be into the Churches authoritie 5 For confirmation whereof they bring you see this of Austine I would not haue beleeued the Gospel vnlesse the Churches authority moued me In which words he speaketh of the time past afore he was conuerted and according to the phrase of his countrey putteth the preterimperfect tense for the preterpluperfect tense meaning thus I had not now beleeued the Gospell and bene a Christian but that the Church by her reasons perswaded me thereunto speaking onely of the practise of Christians who by their perswasions conuert many to the Gospell And that he speaketh of the time p●st when he was an vnbeleeuer it is plain not onely by viewing the place but by the testimonie of a learned Papist m Can loc l. 2. c. 8. pag. 34. who saith Austine had to do with a Manichee who would haue a certaine Gospell of his owne without controuersie admitted therefore Austine asketh what they will do if they chance to meet with one * Qui ne Euangelio quidem credat which beleeueth not the Gospell and by what arguments they will draw him into their opinion n Certè se affirmat non aliter potuisse adduci vt Euangeli●m amplect●ret●● quàm Ecclesiae authoritate victum Verily he affirmeth that ●e for his part could not otherwise be drawne to embrace the Gospel but being ouercome with the authorie of the Church therefore he doth not teach that the credite of the Gospell is founded on the Churches authoritie Whereby it is plaine that Austine propoundeth himselfe as an instance of one that beleeueth not which he could not be when he wrote this but by speaking of the time past And though it were throughly proued that he spake of himselfe being a Christian and in that estate said he would not beleeue the Gospell vnlesse the authoritie of the Church moued him yet were it not proued hereby that he meant the present Church as it runneth from time to time or the Church of Rome or any other place as it now standeth For if some Papists misse it not he meant the Church which was in the Apostles times which saw Christs miracles and heard his preaching Durand o 3. d. 24. q. 1. in litera o. saith That which is spoken concerning the approbation of the Scripture by the Church is meant onely of that Church which was in the Apostles time Of the same mind are p Dried de var. dogm l. 4. c. 4. Gers de vita anima Occham dial l. 1. part 1. c 4. others whereby he may see that Austine giueth a kind of authoritie to the Church but it is not that Church which should serue his turne Neither is the authoritie giuen large enough to reach the Popish conceit or the Iesuites conclusion if we had not the testimony of the Church we could not be infallibly sure that there were any Gospell at all nor know these bookes to be Scripture for Canus a Doctor of his owne q Vbi supra confesseth I do not beleeue that the Euangelist saith true because the Church telleth me he saith true but because God hath reuealed it And r Triplicat incho 〈◊〉 uers Whitak in Admon Stapleton The inward testimonie of the spirit is so effectuall for the beleeuing of any point of faith that by it alone any matter may be beleeued though the Church hold her peace or be neuer heard And ſ Comment theol tom 3. pag. 31 Gregorie of Valence The reuelation of the Scripture is beleeued not vpon the credit of any other reuelation but for it selfe And t q●● Sent. 1 q. 1. art 3. pag 50. li●eta C. ●●ce Greg. Arimin prolog n sent q. 1. art 3. pag. 4. Cardinall Cameracensis The verities contained in the Canon of the Bible onely are the principles and foundation of Diuinitie and receiue not their authority by other things whereby they may be demonstrated And therefore this testimonie of Austine proueth not that he beleeued the Gospel through the Churches authoritie as by a Theologicall principle whereby the Gospel might be proued true but onely as it were by a cause mouing him to credite it as if he should say I would not beleeue the Gospell vnlesse the holinesse of the Church or Christs miracles did moue me In which saying though some cause of his beleeuing the Gosp ll be assigned yet u Compare this w●● the place of Bozius alledged in the beginning of this Digress letter a. no former principle is touched whose credite might be the cause why the Gospell should be beleeued These speeches of our very aduersaries which the truth it selfe hath wroong from them deserue to be obserued the more because
why the second cause produceth such an effect Shall we from these speeches conclude against them as the Iesuite doth against vs that man therefore hath no freewill and that he cannot do otherwise then he doth and that God is the author of sin And yet no Papist aliue can shew any doctrine or writing of ours that more vehemently insinuateth such conclusions then these speeches do for they ascribe vnto Gods will an absolute soueraignty ouer ours to moue determine and restraine it and the actions thereof which is all that we say and the verie point the Iesuite cauilleth at 47 But it is obiected that if our will be no freer then thus how can it be possible we should do otherwise then we do for God moueth and inclineth it yea determineth and limiteth it I answer that if the saying our will is limited by God giue any occasion of danger our enemies that accuse vs are as guiltie thereof as we For these are their words besides that I haue set downe immediatly before p Occham 1. d. 38. quem sic refert Alm. c. 1. that when our will produceth any act it is not in the power thereof at that instant not to produce it q Almain Moral c. 1. tract 2. That the will can do nothing but God will haue it so to do r Vall. de lib. arb quē refert Chemnit loc tom 1. p. 440. That there is no power at all in our will but Gods will worketh and effecteth all things ſ Dom Ban. 1. part q. 19. art 10. That God determineth our will by his immutable counsell c. t A●im 2 d. 26. q. 1. That all men need the speciall helpe of Gods grace to do any thing that good is This determination of our will by the gouernment of Gods will goeth as far against free-will as any thing that we say and therfore if our doctrine leade men to be carelesse and desperate how will they excuse their owne The meaning therefore is not that God by his prouidence infuseth any constraint into the mind of man to inforce it or any error to seduce it or imposeth any necessitie to binde it but onely that he inclineth and ordereth it to worke freely that which he hath foreseene and determined for his own glorie and besides his preseruing the facultie thereof moueth and applieth it to the obiect and worke that it willeth or nilleth Which maner of inclining I thinke no Papist will deny For Thomas u Contra. Gent l. 3. c. 89. saith Man cannot vse the power of his will but so farre forth as he worketh in the power of God x Ib. c. 91. And all our choise and will is immediatly disposed of God And y Bell de lib. arb l. 3. c. 18. the Iesuites confesse that whether men will or no yet can they not peruert the order of Gods prouidence set downe from all eternitie to do at any time that which God absolutely will not or not to do what he absolutely willeth Which words you see restraine all our libertie to Gods pleasure and exclude not the precedencie of his will to determine ours Yet are not our actions made necessary thereby so that we cannot do otherwise then we do because Gods will is the first mouing cause willing no effect in the creature of absolute necessitie but according to the condition of the second causes and no effect is called necessarie of the first and remote causes but onely of the second and nearer as z Tho. cont Gent. l. 1. c. 86. l. 3 c. 72. Capreol 1. d. 40. art 3. concl 3. the Schoolemen teach in this question 48 By this that I haue said you may perceiue that though our aduersaries take vpon them to be great patrones of free-will yet when the matter cometh to scanning they are forced to subiect it again to Gods prouidence as much as any Protestant doth and their so doing is lyable to the same difficulties that the Iesuite obiecteth against vs. For a De gr lib. arb l. 4 c. 11. the Iesuites say Man is not holden to haue freewill in choosing and consulting because he can do it of his owne strength but because the cooperation of God being allowed he can do it And b Greg Arimin 2. d 26. q. 1. 2. the best learned Schoolemen they haue thinke Our will vnable to any good till God send his speciall grace thereunto Shall I now conclude they debarre all care in consultations and make men desperate because the wil is vnable when grace is wanting and we can do nothing of our selues till God inable vs If I should my conclusion were the very same against them that theirs is against vs that is to say wrongly inferred c Vide Dom. Bannes 22. qu. 10. art 1. pag. ●90 lit c. For though I cannot by mine owne strength rise vp from sinne nor do any good till Gods grace preuent my will yet an earnest care whereby I deliberate is that meanes which the spirit vseth to preuent me and therefore if I will be saued or reclaimed from sinne or confirmed in grace I must admit deliberation as the first motion that God casteth into my minde for the effecting hereof and not stay till I finde some violent and sensible compunctions inforcing me but accept euen that small motion of care and consultation the which to cast away is to reiect Gods offer inuiting vs to our vprising Next though we haue no power to conuert our selues yet all men haue power to vse the outward meanes and libertie to heare the voice of Gods word and spirit inuiting them to consider of their estate which is sufficient to make them vnexcusable if they resist it God worketh some things in vs without vs some things in vs and with vs some things in vs and by vs. In vs without vs good motions which by his spirit he casteth into vs as we lie plunged in sin whereby he awaketh vs and biddeth vs thinke of our vprising In vs and with vs a good will to receiue those motions and not to resist the spirit In vs and by vs all such good workes as the motion of his spirit teacheth vs to do And thus in the greatest bondage of our will we make roome for care and consultation euen in spirituall things otherwise then the most of our aduersaries do in c Whereof reade in the next Digress●● 62. their doctrine of the merit of congruitie whereof d Bav de vi●● imp l. 2. c. vlt. one of themselues saith truly They go not the right way to worke who aspiring to walke after the spirit place the hope of a better reformed life in the commadement of the law and freedome of their owne will 49 Or if the Iesuite according to the common error among the vulgar of his side imagine we make men desperate and carelesse in their actions because we teach no man is elected or reprobated because of his
might be here in the sacrament yet it was not in the beginning so manifestly beleeued as concerning this conuersion o D. 11. q. 3. §. Quantum ergo ad istum But principally this seemeth to moue vs to hold transubstantiation because concerning the sacramēts we are to hold as the Church of Rome doth where in the margin it is noted that our faith as concerning this sacrament is onely by reason of the Churches determination And he p §. Ad argumenta pro prima addeth We must say the Church in the Creed of the Lateran Councell vnder Innocent the third which beginneth with these words FIRMITER CREDIMVS declared this sence concerning transubstantiation to belong to the veritie of our faith And if you demand why would the Church make choise of so difficult a sence of this article whē the words of the Scripture This is my body might be vpholden after an easie sence and in appearance more true I say the Scriptures were expounded by the same spirit that made them and so it is to be supposed that the Catholicke Church expounded them by the same spirit whereby the faith was deliuered vs namely being taught by the spirit of truth and therefore it chose this sence because it was true q Canon lect 41. Biels words are to the same effect Which sheweth the point was neither holden nor knowne vniuersally in the Church before the Lateran Councell and that then it began to be receiued as a matter of our faith And yet since that time these men enquiring so boldly into the congruēcie of the opinion and casting so many dangers about it they shew plainly that they mistrust the proceeding of the Councell though they may not disclaime it Durand r 4. d. 11. q. 1. saith It is great rashnesse to thinke the body of Christ by his diuine power cannot be in the sacrament vnlesse the bread be conuerted into it But if this way which supposeth the bread to remaine still were true de facto many doubts which meet vs about the sacrament holding that the substance of bread remaineth not were dissolued But forsomuch as this way must not de facto be holden since the Church hath determined the contrary which is presumed not to erre in such matters therefore I answer the arguments made to the contrary holding the other part which saith the bread is changed Would our aduersaries thus backwardly come into the opinion if they had seene it to haue bene holden in all ages before in the Church or is it not rather an infallible signe that it was brought into the Church by the strength of some mens conceits without all warrant either of Scripture or fathers the want whereof so dazled those that imbraced it that they could see no reason for it but are all glad to lay it vpon the necke of a silly Pope in his Lateran Coūcell Besides ſ Scot. 4. d 11. q. 3. Bell Euchar. l. 3. c. 23. they confesse There is no Scriptare to inforce it vnlesse ye bring the Church of Romes exposition that is to say the Popes authoritie in whom t Turrect tract 73. quest q. 49. they thinke the power of the vniuersall Church in determining matters of faith principally resides if not alone u 3. part q. 75. art 1. p. 153. Caietan laieth downe diuers opinions holden among the Schoolemen touching the conuersion neuer a one whereof reacheth the transubstantiation and disallowing such as expounded Christs words This is my body metaphorically he saith his reason is because the Church hath vnderstood them properly I say the Church saith he because in the Gospell there is nothing that compelleth vs to vnderstand them properly headdeth that the conuersion of the bread into Christs body we haue receiued of the Church Now put all this together that we beleeue transubstantiation vpon the authoritie of the Church and this Church was Pope Innocent in the Councell of Lateran before which time there was no certaintie nor necessitie of beleeuing it and the Councell might haue chosen another sence of Christs words more easie and in all appearance more true for there is no Scripture sufficient to conuince it and the contrary were liable to fewer difficulties let this I say be put together and it will plainly shew that this point came in contrary to that which was vniuersally holden in the ancient Church because things vniuersally holden were certainly knowne and expresly beleeued without all this ado § 48. Let him shew also what countrey there is or hath bene where Christian faith either was first planted or continued where some at least haue not holden the Romane faith as we can shew them diuerse places especially in the Indies Iaponia and China countreys where theirs is scarce heard of The Answer 1 This is answered before sect 46. nu 2. where I shewed that when countries were first conuerted frō Paganism which was for the most part in the Primitiue Church the present Romane faith was not knowne but the Church of Rome in those daies professed the same that we do and consequently the nations conuerted by it and professing the faith thereof were conuerted to our religion and professed it For the Iesuite deceiueth himselfe with the name of Romane faith wherewith in the beginning all nations indeed vnder heauen communicated but then it was not the same that now it is as I haue plainly demonstrated in the former sect digress 49. And although since the change many nations haue still retained the same faith with it yet that iustifieth not the faith because the said faith growing on by steps and peecemeale was a generall apostasie and the mysterie of iniquitie working throughout the whole Church so that of necessitie there must be some in all places to follow it As when a generall rebellion groweth throughout a kingdome the rebels haue partakers in euerie towne and yet the possession is not proued theirs by that but onely the greatnesse and strength of the rebelling faction is shewed The Papacy that is to say the Roman faith in as much as it differeth from vs is not imagined by vs to be in another Church distinct in place and countries from the true Church of Christ but we affirme it to be a contagion raigning in the middest of the Church of Christ it self and spreading throughout the parts therof wheresoeuer and annoying the whole body like a leprosie in which disease though all the parts be affected yet the inward and vitall parts retaine their operation and still worke to expell the leprosie which at the length they do In this case the man is possessed indeed with a vile contagion but yet the man remaineth there still though the contagion be not the man And the contagion possesseth euery part of him some more some lesse being vniuersally spread ouer the body and yet hereby it is not proued to be the true nature and sound constitution of the bodie but a preuailing humor and when
of Christs continuall presence no assurance of his holy Spirits infallible assistance yet it is not possible that such a grosse heresie could arise and ouerwhelme the whole world without some resistance The Bishops and Pastors could not be so simple or so vnmindfull of their dutie but they would first note such an euident contrarietie to the ancient and vniuersally receiued faith and noting it would with common consent resist contradict and finally according to S. Paules rule Gal. 1. accurse it If therefore this could not happen nor neuer did at anie time in like case that any such grosse error or heresie did or could arise without noting and resisting what reason can anie one haue to say that this hath happened at Rome and yet can bring no writer that did note the thing the time and person and what opposition was made against it as in all heresies that haue truly sprong vp of new we can do If there could not a little ceremonie be added to the Masse but that it was set downe in historie when and by whom how could the whole substance of the Masse which consisteth in consecration oblation consumption of the sacred hoast be newly inuented and no mention made when where or by whom or that there was such an inuention at all If also historiographers were not afraid to note personall and priuate vices of Popes which they might well thinke those Popes would not willingly haue had published why should they haue feared to haue recorded anie alteration in religion which if it had bin had bene a thing done by themselues publikely in the view of the whole world So that we may well conclude that if Christian religion had since the Apostles time altered in Rome it would haue bene recorded in histories as other such alterations are and if they should now happen would be But no mention being made in anie storie that such an alteration was it is sure no such was at all no such change of religion being at all it is euident that the same faith and religion which was in S Pauls time hath alway continued and is there now that which was there then was the true faith as appeareth by that high commendation which S. Paul hath left written of it therefore that which is there now must needs be the true Catholicke faith and that company which professeth it must needs be the true Catholicke Church The Answer 1 It must be remembred that the point which the Iesuit in this place driueth at is to proue his Romish Church Catholicke that is denying no point of doctrine which in former times was vniuersally receiued of the Catholike Church but holding the very same without any change To proue this he hath here furnished a popular speech well conceited it seemeth by himself and much reported I perceiue by the vulgar of his side and because it fully expresseth the conceit of our countrie Papists touching the antiquitie of their religion and containeth many speeches vsed by them in maintenance of their heresie and omitteth nothing of that which can be said against vs in this point therefore I will answer it from point to point plainly and directly desiring the reader to marke me diligently and intreating my aduersary whosoeuer he be in the cause not to shut his eyes against reason when it is ready to conuince him nor to mistake any thing that I shall say but to apply it and compare it to that which is obiected as all Christian and moderate minded men in pursuite of the truth and peace ought to do 2 The whole is thus contracted There neuer was in times past nor neuer shall be in times present or to come any alteration from the true faith to grosse heresie such as the Roman religion is supposed to be but foure things fall out withall 1. Some space of time may be shewed in which the said heresie was not visibly known 2. The time may be assigned when it began to rise and the truth to faile 3. The persons are recorded that brought it in 4. The Bishops and people are knowne that note it resist lament and curse it But there is no record extant that any of these things happened to the faith of the present Church of Rome Ergo It is the ancient Catholicke faith without any change I answer that both the Propositions are false The first because many times the truth hath bene changed into error where the circumstances mentioned cannot be giuen The second because in many things holden by the Church of Rome at this day we can out of good records assigne the time of the alteration with the circumstances This my answer I will apply particularly to all that the Iesuite saith as it lieth in order and so confirme it reducing euery thing to one of the Propositions whereto it belongeth 3 First he requireth vs to shew some space of time wherein the Romane Church was not visibly knowne euer since Christ as he can shew many hundred yeares wherein our Church was not This demand is satisfied already in the 47. sect and shall be further answered in that which followeth where that which he saith to proue it is disproued And though the Protestants confesse their Church to haue bene inuisible as I haue expounded Digression 17. yet that will do the Iesuite no good because we obiect more against his Church then so which obiection he may easily assaile with bragges and confidence but can neuer answer with truth and good diuinitie as shall appeare 4 Next he biddeth vs shew when the Romane Church failed in the profession of the ancient faith which once it had Rom. 1.8 and who began the new wherto I answer that these two circumstances when and by whom may be shewed in diuers points which is sufficient to disproue all the rest See below nu 8. inde where I name both the time and persons that changed some points which being so there is no reason why the remainder of that religion the authors whereof are vnknowne should be iustified vnder pretence that we shew not the precise circumstances of the alteration for we giue sound and sufficient reason why we need not do it and to prepare the Iesuite and his partakers to the hearing thereof I propound a Plutarch that famous probleme which in times past the Greekes debated so curiously The ship Argos wherein Iason sailed for the golden fleece at his returne the voiage being ended was laid vp in the road for a monument where decaying by little and little they alwaies peeced it anew where it wore away till in the end the whole substance of the old vessell was gone and nothing remained thereof but onely the reparations successiuely made in the roome of the old Now the question was this whether this ship say it were Saint Peters to gratifie the Iesuite were the same that he sailed in when he liued or another new one diuers from it And whether my wise Athenian could precisely tell when