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spirit_n act_v holy_a zion_n 43 3 10.1811 5 false
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A56668 A further continuation and defence, or, A third part of the friendly debate by the same author.; Friendly debate between a conformist and a non-conformist Part 3. Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707. 1670 (1670) Wing P805; ESTC R2050 207,217 458

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Book who confutes this Exposition of the word z 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as not apposite to the place it properly signifying saith he a proof which renders a thing evident or demonstrates it from certain and necessary reasons Such were the Supernatural gifts of the Holy-ghost But the making men of our belief and perswading them to receive what we say is no certain and necessary proof that we speak nothing but the Truth No man can affirm that who considers any thing and therefore the Apostle speaks of such a sensible demonstration or proof as I mentioned without which they could not know certainly that there was a Divine Spirit in the Apostles So the word is plainly expounded Act. 2.22 Jesus of Nazareth a man approved * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 denu●●●●ated to you to be of among you by Miracles Wonders and Signs which God did by him c. From whence I gother that the thing whereby he approved himself to them or demonstrated he was of God was the very same whereby the Apostles demonstrated his Religion viz. Miracles Wonders and Signs all the gifts of the Holy Ghost N. C. But do not the Dutch Annotators expound it otherwise C. They seem to understand by Spirit the secret operation of the Spirit in mens hearts though by Power the same that I do In which they follow Erasmus in his Paraphrase and Theophylact hath something to the same effect though he presently betake himself to the Interpretation of St. Chrysostom before named But how an inclination to believe a thing or a perswasion wrought in me of it should be a Demonstration i. e. a proof that the thing is true which I am perswaded of or inclined unto is as I told you past my understanding And therefore having such good company I shall believe notwithstanding all his barking that they were the extraordinary visible effects of the Spirit either in our Saviour or his Apostles or others who believed which were the Demonstration by the means of which the Holy Ghost convinced the understandings and bowed the wills of unbelievers to become Christians N. C. I thought Grotius only had be●● on your side and Philagathus tells us he perceives if Grotius be for you as 〈◊〉 it were God himself you are ready to say who shall be against you a Pag. 10. As if y●● were bound to swear whatsoever Grotius b Ib. saith C. I remember his words and they are another notable Demonstration of the Hypocritical modesty that is the shameless boldness of this man who will venture to say any thing merely out of his own head which he thinks may disgrace me and indeavour without any proof to make the world believe that I pin my Faith on Grotius his sleeve and make him in stead of a God This he repeats I cannot tell how often as he shall hear anon with a witness and I will repeat it too only out of that great forge where the rest of his Book was wrought his own imagination For I protest sincerely it is more than I know if that be his Interpretation which I gave you nor did I in all my life to my best remembrance consult with him about it Though I must tell you if I had I should in Mr. Baxter's judgment have consulted one of the five most judicious Commentators that ever wrote on the Scriptures c Beza Grotius Pilcator Musculus Deodat Five of the most judicious Commentators I think that ever wrote on the sacred Scriptures Second Postscript af●er his Disput about Right to the Sacraments p. 539. But as judicious as he is in his opinion I would have you know that I would never have followed him without more reason than his bare affirmation The naked truth is that the very propriety of the words and the drift of the Apostles discourse carried me without any help to this Exposition Spirit every body knows who hath studied signifies commonly extraordinary gifts If he will not be at the pains to examine it I will quore him an Autority for it which he often vaunts of and that is Master Baxter who tells you that he who will observe carefully the language of the Holy Ghost shall find this word Spirit or Holy Ghost is most usually in the New Testament taken for the extraordinary gifts of that Age d Vnreasonableness of Infidelity p. 12. As for the word Power you heard what Musculus said But beside I have noted in my small Observation that when our Saviour was sent into the World he was anointed with the Holy Ghost and with Power Acts 10.38 and that he told his Apostles as the Father sent him so he would send them Joh. 20.21 From whence I concluded that they were to be anointed also with the Holy Ghost or the Spirit and with Power as he had been And so they were for as at his Baptism the Spirit of God descended on him like a Dove Mat. 3.16 so on the day of Pentecost which was the day of their Baptism Acts 1.5 they were all filled with the Holy Ghost prophesying and speaking with tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance and presently working a great Miracle upon the Creeple and with great power giving witness of his Resurrection e See Act. 2. v. 4.17.25 Act 3. v 2 c. Act. 4. v. 33. This I thought was the Demonstration of the Spirit and of Power whereby our Lord was approved and demonstrated in his life time to be the Son of God and by which afterward they proved his Resurrection from the dead and so the Truth of his Religion Spirit I take to comprehend the gift of Tongues Prophesie Interpretation of Tongues and all the rest except doing Miracles which in Scripture is called by the name of Power Thus I observe they are distinguished Gal. 3.5 He that ministreth the Spirit and worketh Miracles among you doth he it by the works of the Law c. where all gifts besides Miracles are called the Spirit And the Author to the Hebrews saith that God did bear witness to the Apostles Preaching both with Signs Wonders and divers Miracles and also with Gifts or Distributions of the Holy-Ghost according to his own will These and such like considerations were sufficient to perswade me to incline to that sense of the words which I gave you But when I attended to the scope of the Apostles discourse I had no doubt left in me nothing so well agreeing with it whatsoever this man prates as that Interpretation For the Spirit and Power is that which proved the Truth of the Apostles Preaching better than any Syllogisms or artificial Orations could do which he therefore calls a Demonstration in opposition to those ways of perswasion which deserved not that name Now what should that be which was the Reason and Cause of Belief Since it is certain the Spirit did not inwardly perswade men to believe without any reason Could some me●● belief of the Doctrine prove that
of your own party to the very skie to magnifie their gifts their zeal their sincerity their self-denial their tenderness of Conscience their pains taking together with their sufferings though never so small And on the other side to disparage ours or at the best to speak very coldly of them though never so pious and learned nay to shake your heads sometimes and lament their Ignorance in the mystery of Christ the meanness of their spiritual gifts the formality of their pravers their unedifying preaching and as it is to be feared their straining Conscience to comply with the times N. C. Pray let 's have no more of this C. Why may I not tell you a few other Devices that have been in use to win and keep your Proselytes As to brag of your numbers to spread stories and lyes by your Agents and correspondents from one end of the land to the other to fill every Country with the very same tales to possess the people against the writings of those of our way to give glorious titles to your own Books to cry up your sufferings as if they were for the cause of Christ to call all things you do not like I dolatry Antichristianisme Popery and such like odions and frightful names nay such hath been the tenderness of some of your hearts as to threaten your poor neighbours they shall have no work at least to deny to imploy them unless they will come to your meetings N. C. Now you calumniate to purpose C. It was a thing notorious in the late times as Mr. Edwards assures us and I have cause to think this evil humour is not spent but rather encreased But be that as it will you have a number of far more efficacious Arts then this As to vaunt of the power of your preaching of the glorious appearance of God among you and of the multitude of Converts to you to bespatter all that oppose you to perswade the people it was good livings that made so many turn Conformists and that they have lost their gifts and are much decreased in their graces at least you have thought good to terrifie them and bid them take heed for they have lost the prayers of thousands But if any adventure to write against you wo be to them Whatsoever they were before immediately they become the enemies of God and all goodness The people are told that they strike at the power of godliness through your sides and that they reproach Religion when they reprove your Superstition Every reprehension is called railing and hatred to the people of God and whatsoever fault they find it is done on purpose you say to bring all godliness into contempt In short to suppress you is to suppress the Spirit and but to speak against your affected language is to be desperately profane for who ever saw the beauty of Sion and the glory of the Lord filling the Tabernacle but in your Congregations Let any man go about to contradict this it is but pouring out half a dozen Scriptures against him nothing to the purpose and he is confuted nay one word will do the work and he shall be thought to write rarely and to come off like an Angel who can but say The Lord rebuke thee N. C. You had as good hold your peace for I beleive nothing that you say C. I can prove in every particular by true and faithful histories that this hath been the humour of your Sect. N. C. Save your self the labour I have no time nor list to hear you C. Nor to read good Books but only to babble as your Answerer doth out of your own head Did you never see a little Book called A wise and moderate Discourse concerning Church Affairs N. C. No. C. It was Printed in the beginning of our Warrs 1641. And I find it since put among my Lord Bacons Works there you may find several of these things noted First saith he * Speaking of the Oppugaers of the present Ecclesiastical Government they have appropriated to themselves the name of zealous and sincere and reformers as if all others were cold minglers of holy things profane men and friends to abuses Nay if a man be indued with great vertues and fruitful in good works yet if he coneurre not fully with them he is called in derogation a civil and moral man and compared to Socrates or some Heathen Philosopher Just contrary to St. John who would have called such a man Religious and told such as many of them that h● vainly boasts of loving God whom he hath not seen who loves not his neighbour whom he hath seen St. James also saith that this is true Religion to visit the Father less and the Widdow So as that which is but Philosophical and moral with them is in the phrase of the Apostle true Religion and Christianity And as in affections they challenge the said virtue of zeal and the rest so in knowledge they attribute 〈◊〉 themselves light and perfection The Church of England in King Edwards daies wa● but in the swadling cloaths or in the Cradle in Queen Elizabeths time but in it infancy and childhood The Bishops h● somewhat of the Day break but the M●turity and fulness of light is reserved fo● themselves And as they consure virtu●● men by the names of Civil and Moral 〈◊〉 those who are truly and godly wise a● discern the vanity of their Assertions they term Politicians and say their Wisedome is but carnal and savouring of mans Brain And in like manner if a preacher speak with care and meditation ordering his matter distinctly and inforcing it with strong proofs and warrants they censure it as a form of preaching not becomming the simplicity of the Gospel and refer it to the reprehension of St. Paul speaking of the enticing words of mans wisdome You may read there a great deal more to the same purpose if you have a mind to see your own picture But nothing methinks is more memorable then the blind rage and fury which the discovery of a most impious cheat excited in some of your predecessors hearts There was a young Preacher pretended to a power of Casting out Devils which he began to assume in the year 1586. and more openly professed 1597. This made a great noise of glory lights lamps and shining beams which now appeared in the work a Discovery of the fraudulent practices of John Darrel c. A● 1599. p. 19. It was given out to be a marvel●us work a mighty work of the Lord Jesas which all that loved him in sincerity must be careful to publish a matter of as great consequence and as profitable to all that sincerely professed the Gospel as ever any was since the restoring it amongst us b Ib. p. 16. And though first her Majesties Judges and then her commissioners in causes Ecclesiastical found by the free confession of the party said to be dispossessed that it was a meer cheat and a wicked combination to abuse the
his own like that which follows p. 8. You bring in the N. C. saying the King is a Tyrant But what will not he be bold to invent who dare tell you p. 10. that I knockt so hard not only upon the Act of Indemnity which I have show'd you is notoriously false but upon all overtures for peace and accommodation that he was not able to lye still when part of my business was to show the way to it and when it was fit for you to expect the favour you desire If we say not what pleases him it seems we had better hold our peace If he like not our propositions he will make no bones to say we offer nothing nay are against all peace and accomodation with them They must have their own way and be set at Liberty as he tells us before they will try to make us and you friends and then it is but upon condition neither if we will refer it to them and be bound to stand to their award g They are his own words p. 220. 221. Such another ugly lye is that which immediately comes after this that I reflect obliquely upon most eminent persons and insinuate that they never deserve to be loved or trusted more notwithstanding his Majesties confidence in them This he found in the same place where he met with all those Stratagems and Maximes he tells you of in the following pages as that I would put down Religious conference and bring men out of conceit with experiences and have spiritual preaching laught out of Countenance h P. 16 17. of the Preface and that I have used my wit to abuse earnestness in Prayer preaching of the love of Jesus Christ and using of Scripture language i Page 31. Ib. with a number of other such like things which are such gross lyes that they cannot be forced from my words by doing violence to them and putting them upon the Rack For I told you in plain termes what experiences the Apostle commands and when Religious conference is profitable to our selves and others and what it is to preach spiritually c. which I do not mean to repeat over again for his conviction In stead of that I will recommend to his consideration one Stratagem which he doth not think of though he is very expert in it and though it be a Stratagem of Satan who as Acontius might have inform'd him in a Book bearing that Title k S●●●ns Stra●ag●●es Book 2. p. 50.52 translated 1648. prompts men to cavil at one anothers words in their disputes whereby opposition is made not so much against what is affirmed as against what the opposer hath by a false Interpretation feigned to himself which kind of practice tends to nothing saith he but to provoke the Adversary and to make a mans self ridiculous by opening a Window to himself whereout to cast a thousand follies not a jot to the matter in hand Yet some men as he adds are exceedingly conceited of themselves if misinterpreting their Adversaries words they can infer some great absurdity there from Howbeit this custom ought to be left to vain Sophisters who as another excellent writer observes l Mouns Balzac can make use of true propositions to infer an erroneous conclusion and like petti-foggers still cite the Law to Authorise their injustice Such a Caviller is this Philagathus between whose Maximes Aphorisms c. and my propositions there is as wide a difference as we find oft-times between the Text and the Commentaries the meaning of the Author and the Criticismes of Grammarians So he will confess himself if he will but take the counsel of Acontius and forsaking the Devil with all his Works report what I say without addition diminution or alteration I can warrant only my own words which are sound and innocent as the other writer speaks in the like case not those of my Adversary which are full of malice and rancor For what I have written I am responsible and am ready to maintain it but all the Visions and fancies that come into other mens heads are not in my power nor am I accountable for them If Philag will say that I affirm one of W. B. Sermons is not so good as a Play m Preface p. 20. c. what remedy is there who can defend themselves from being abused by such squint-ey'd Readers I cannot make my words plainer than they are which were only these that the Sermon about the Cupboard of Plate and Gods departing from us c. hath more of fiction in it than many of the Playes n Friend●● Debate 190. What ever other words I should go about to place in the room of them he may as well deprave as he hath done these and many other throughout his whole Book making them depose such things as were never in my thoughts But now we have to do with the Preface in which there are so many falsities of this Nature that if I could find the like in my Book I should think as Dr. Corn. Burges saith in another case o Antidote against AntiSobrius p. 31.1660 that it deserved the reward of the Hangman and I would either burn it my self or hire him to d● it for me It would tire you to hear them all and therefore I will only add that notorious one which you find in the first of those Stratagems of Satan which he hath invented to cast that blame on us which justly lyes upon themselves It is this that we have brought all the practical Divines such as Scudder Culverwell Rogers c. quite out of Request that now adays there is no enquiring after those kind of Books p Presace p. 12. N. C. He only tells you that a grave Book-seller told him not long since that the Rational Divines as some would have them called had brought all our practical Divines c. C. Take heed you do not falsify too He hath made this lye his own in these words which follow q Ib. page 13. Sure I am the writings which you have taught the World to set at naught have been as great Seminaries and nurseries of Religion as most in the World N. C. Is it not too true C. There cannot well be a more impudent falshood For it was the canting of some among your selves which first struck those Books out of your peoples hands and destroyed those great Nu●series which he speaks of They made them believe there was a greater Gospel-Light now broken forth than had been since the Apostles times that they brought them more glorious Discoveries of the love of God and held forth free grace more clearly and fully and that there was both a freer streaming of Christ's Blood to poor sinners laid open and a more plentiful powring out of the Spirit in these latter dayes than our Fore-Fathers had seen In short that there was more of Law and of Mount Sinai in those old Preachers and now more of Gospel and
Mount Sion in themselves This was one of those things which turned their eyes from Authors now named to look for some greater thing which these new Teachers had to reveal to them N. C. I must confess I have heard some of our own Divines complain of this But I doubt you have helpt to make the people reject those Authors as weak and frivolous and to listen to what new Rational Doctrine your selves are about to bring as he tells you p. 13. C. He talks idly and spitefully opposes his own imaginations to the plain and manifest truth They were laid aside and other Books come in their stead before those whom he strikes at begun either to preach or write And some of those very Ministers of yours who complained of the New lights and Discoveries have contributed to it not a little by affecting of new words and fine phrases and devising Sauces for that food which those old Divines delivered in a plainet and more simple manner These many people began even then to long for when Mr. Rogers his Book was writ as we may learn from one that prefaces to it Mr. Fr. Merbury there tells us that some professors in those dayes liked none but such conceited Cooks as this Philagdthus who commends so heartily T. VV. Sances and tells us an Anchove or two gives the gravy a fine relish and rather then fail can be content with Carriers Sance an Onion to get a man a better stomack to his meat r All these are his words p. 50. But he himself did not like them as he tells us in these words the rest of the professors which ●e like wanton children and begin to play with their meat and brook nothing but conceited writing and speaking are to be bewailed And therefore he desires the good Readers in the conclusion of that Epistle to receive Mr. Roger's provision made for them of wholesome meat not caring for conceited Cookery but rememtring that hunger is the best sauce for beavenly food This is a plain demonstration to me that this buisy Informer and Reproover hath not been conversant himself in those Writers which he so much commends but is one of those who hath laid them aside though he be no Rational Divine I dare say for him At least he is never the better for them being one of those that writes not elegantly but conceitedly if ever any man did and that labours hard in this phantastick trade of Cookery which those grave Writers did so solemnly condemn Witness the bread and butter I told you of before the hot broth of reproof which he talks of p. 123. The Beef and Bacon the Rabbets and Chickens which he fetches in to make a savory Mess of W. Bs. bowl of Pottage f pag. 264. and 265. and the conceited jest which he makes a shift to strain at last out of a Galimaufry of Latine and English compounded together for which he would be soundly firkt if he were I know where and at every lash be told in his own language that he had both jus in re and jus ad rem too far more then any boy in the School N. C. Did not you bring in your Cheese too in the Epistle to your Reader C. And I take it neither for an out-stretched Allegory u Like his discourse of this matter which takes up 3. pages l. p. 264. c. as he would have it nor an unhandsome resemblance Others I am sure who are no bad judges think it as far from conceited as they think him from being witty N. C. You must consider the matters about which he write are not very grave and so it may be pardonable if he be a little phantastical C. No I thought all this while he had been defending the use of these Sauces in T. W's Book of Repentance and such like that have taken the place of those better writers Which are the less acceptable to many of you for another reason that he thinks not of being I have cause to think but little acquainted with them N. C. What should that be C. They resolutely maintain the lawfulness and usefulness of a Form of prayer which now is so much despised if not abhorred and withal approve of the publique service of our Church and commend some other things which are now neglected N. C. Can you prove what you say C. I tell you nothing but what my eyes have read Mr. Rich. Rogers for instance whom p. 13. he sets in the first place in his seven Treatises x Commended by Mr. Culverwel one of the Authors Philag praises dedicated to King James in the beginning of his raign tells you * Treat 3. chap. 4. that the Publique Prayers solemnly offered to God in the congregation and praysing God with Psalmes is one of the publique helps to Godliness to be used by every Christian In the which saith he if that mind be in us with the which we have been taught to come to all holy exercises and so be prepared for them who doubts but that we may receive much help by them Yea ☜ and the better a man is the more he shall profit by them And when a man doth not profit it is partly of Ignorance partly from a prejudicate opinion and rash zeal which makes men give themselves to slight and negligent hearing of and attending to them And then having answered the objection of those who said the Ministers in some places were ignorant and unreformed Sots and idle drones in philag language p. 284. and resolved that notwithstanding we ought to joyn with them in prayers He proceeds to satisfy those that said a Minister should use no set form of Prayer but as he is moved by Gods spirit To such he saith It is a fond error so to think N. C. I know many would not like those words C. I told you so but hear his reason For as there be necessary things to be prayed for of all men and alway and those are the most things which we are to pray for So there may be prescript forms of prayer made conceming all such things Which being so what letteth that in the Reading of such prayers either of confession of sin request or thanksgiving what letteth I say that the hearers heart may not profitably go with the same both to humble to quicken and to comfort For is the reading it self unpure when the Minister in his own behalf and the peoples uttereth them to God I speak not you see of the matter of prayer but of reading it for if the matter be naught the pronouncing of it makes it not good any more then reading doth if it be good and pure being uttered and pronounced the reading cannot hurt it or make it evil And further to satisfy them they may know that in all Churches and the best Reformed there is a prescript form of prayer used and therefore they who are of a mind that it ought not to be must separate themselves from