Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	absolute_a	according_a	act_n	72	3	6.0319	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A33377	Mr. Claude's answer to Monsieur de Meaux's book, intituled, A conference with Mr. Claude with his letter to a friend, wherein he answers a discourse of M. de Condom, now Bishop of Meaux, concerning the Church.; Reponse au livre de Monsieur l'évesque de Meaux, intitulé Conférence avec M. Claude. English	Claude, Jean, 1619-1687.; Bossuet, Jacques Bénigne, 1627-1704.	1687 (1687)	Wing C4591; ESTC R17732	130,139	128

evidently contradicts that Principle which denies there is an absolute submission due to the sentence of the Church Of this the Discipline it self was a confirmation in that it appointed no Excommunication for such as stood out against the determinations of a Consistory and Provincial Synod and yet did for such as refused to submit to the decrees of a National one The same proceeded he is plain from that Letter Missive to the National Synod For how can men promise and swear submission to whatever should be agreed upon and yet not suppose a full and perfect Submission owing to the Church To urge this Submission proceeds from a perswasion that God will preside in it by his Spirit and his Word and to swear upon this account is to urge that this perswasion is grounded upon God's express Promise to direct his Church in her last determination by his Holy Spirit and after an Infallible manner This very thing said he is plain from the National Synod of Charenton's Act against the Independents The Reason they make use of that suffering their Principle to take place might produce as many several Religions as Parishes concludes for an absolute Obedience to the decisions of Synods since allowing private persons to examine the last determinations there might spring not only as many several Religions as Parishes but as many as there are persons and consequently no means would be left for preserving the unity either of the Faith or of the Church For what relates to the Deputies nominated by the Synod of Saintefoy to go and confer with those of the Ausburg Confession he said he did sincerely acknowledg that the Synod tho it gave them never so large a commission did not however intend it should ever be in their power to subvert all and if I may so say to turn things topsy turvy That he believed the Synods meaning was really that whatever was done by the Deputies should be referred to them and that there is a necessity all things of this nature should be ratified But still it was very amazing and a thing which Mr. Claude had not answered to that they should proffer to insert their Deputies conclusions with the Lutherans in their publick Confessions of Faith For this argued them doubting as to their Confession of Faith which yet they tell us contains nothing but the pure Word of God and in that there can be nothing that requires a change c. Do you think Sir said he that the Articles of your Confession of Faith may be changed When M. de Condom had left off speaking Mr. Claude said he would answer to each particular of his discourse and intreated he would please to hear him quietly And first of all he said That M. de Condom put a wrong construction upon that Article of the Discipline which declares that if men do not acquiesce in the decisions of a Consistory nor those of a Provincial Synod Things shall continue in the same posture till a National one be convened in which a full and final resolution shall be given by the Word of God and they who refuse to acquiesce in This shall be cut off from the Church For the reason of This said he is not either that there ought not to be the same care taken that the Consistories or Provincial Synods determinations should be made by the word of God as well as those of the National nor that this Word hath not as much Authority at one time as another whether declared in a consistory or Provincial Synod or a National one nor that a full and perfect obedience is not due to this only precisely considered as such But this method of proceeding added he was constituted for two reasons very different from what you pretend First because it is highly probable that the search made into Gods Word concerning the matter in controversy may be less exact and sagacious in a Consistory than it would in a Synod composed of all the Ministers in a whole Province and so again by the same reason less exact and sagacious in a Provincial Synod than in a National which is usually made up of all the most ingenious and learned men in the Kingdom The other Reason is That men may possibly be prepossest against a Consistory so as not to hearken to it so readily and impartially as they should which is not so likely in respect of a Provincial Synod which will be thought less apt to be sway'd by interest passions or personal prejudices and consequently they will be more quietly heard Lastly these kind of passions and private Interests being still less likely to happen in a National Synod consisting of persons living remote from one another and coming from all quarters of the Kingdom 't is very probable men will not be prepossest against them and consequently that they will receive the Word of God at their mouths that they will be more ready to learn and better disposed to obey them He said therefore that this method was taken for the avoiding as much as was possible two inconveniences one was to prevent the last determinations being given lightly inconsiderately or with any mixture of humane passion and Interest The other that the parties concerned might not be hindred by any personal prejudices from hearing and receiving the Word of God with that obedience and faithful submission which is owing to it But it could by no means be infer'd from hence that according to the meaning and intention of the Discipline it was not always God's Word as such but the Authority of the Assembly to which that Obedience must be paid And moreover that the decision of a National Synod was for this reason called the last and final decision because according to humane methods and the present course of things there is nothing beyond it to which we can have recourse As for the Letter of Mission to the National Synods he replied that did not infer an absolute submission any more than the Act of their Discipline did because there was in it the express condition of Judging according to the Word of God in these words Being perswaded as we are that God will pr●side over you by his Holy Spirit and his Word As to the Reason which the Synod of Charenton urged against the Independents this he said did not at all imply a blind and implicit obedience That the dependence which particular Churches have upon Colloquies and Synods was an external Order which tho it had not any sure and infallible means of preserving the Church in the unity of the Faith was however of mighty convenience and use towards the doing it And we ought always to take it for granted that God's Blessing will go along with it as being an order constituted by himself That the Independents by throwing off this Order do deprive themselves of these means and wilfully expose themselves to the great inconvenience of having as many several Religions as Parishes so that the Synod had good

band and that which constitutes the Church we are driven to maintain one of these three things Either that such a profession does confer the spirit of Christ Or without Christ's spirit one may still be his Or that the things which make it to be a Church do not yet make it to be Christ's The first of these would be absurd For what more so than to assert ' That a bare profession of Christianity confers the Spirit of Christ At this rate every Hypocrite is a partaker of that Holy Spirit The second That one without Christ's Spirit may still be his directly contradicts Saint Paul's assertion which positively declares That he who hath not Christ's Spirit is not his And for the third That the things which make it to be a Church do not yet make it to be Christ's it may be M. de Condom may not like this himself I for my part look upon it as a very strange position For can one say that what precisely constitutes the Church does not make it Christ's This is as much as to say that the Church is not his Body nor his Spouse nor his well-beloved nor any of all those things the Scripture calls it In a word 't is to say that it is not considered in this quality any part of his concern If M. de Condom frame to himself such a Church as this let him at least give us leave to enquire why he does afterwards appropriate the promises to it For what right can the Church have to these if as such it be not Christ's nor hath Communion with him These two Propositions are evidently destructive of one another If the Church as such be not Christ's it has no share in his promises if it hath then it is his as a Church Let him chuse which he please if the first our Controversie is at an end for to what purpose should we disspute of a Church which he says is Jesus Christ's and yet is not his nor hath any title to the promises If the second let him not talk any more of a Church considered as such being constituted by a bare outward profession For this not conferring Christ's Spirit cannot make the Church his or if it can St. Paul does not say true when he tells us expresly That if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of his IX The sundry passages of Scripture concerning Hypocrites who cloak themselves with such an outward profession abundantly prove them not to be of Christ's Church He that saith he is in the light and hateth his brother is in darkness And a little after In this the children of God are manifest and the children of the Devil whosover doth not righteousness is not God neither he that loveth not his brother Again afterwards He that loveth not knoweth not God for God is love St. Jude speaking of these Hypocrites calls them Spots in our feasts of charity clouds without water trees without fruit twice dead plucked up by the Roots Jesus Christ himself says In the last day he will profess unto them he never knew them What colour then have we for making such members of the Church which is Christ's Body But that place of St. John removes all the difficulty They went out from us but they were of us for if they had been of us they would no doubt have continued with us but that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us What a plain difference is here made between being among us and being of us being among us is proper for Hypocrites that are mixed with the Faithful and joyn in the same profession Being with us is sincerely and truly to be of the Church for which something more than an outward profession is requisite X. We read in Scripture of a twofold Call one by the meer Preaching of the Word commonly termed an outward Call the other by the Preaching of the Word and the Holy Spirit both stiled an inward Call Of the first our Saviour speaks when he says Many are called but few chosen Of the second St. Paul Whom he did predestinate them he also cased and whom he called them he also justified Now the Church whose very name implies a Call must needs have been the effect of one of these two just mentioned But if defined by a bare profession it cannot refer to one or other of these nor can it answer the design of either It does not fulfil the end of the first for the Preaching of the Gospel does not call men to a meer Profession of believing Jesus Christ's Doctrine A Hypocrite is so far from complying with this Call that he rejects and mocks at it It does not refer to the second Call because the Spirit which calls with the Word is a Spirit of Regeneration and not bare profession What Call shall we refer it to then I know not any third the Scripture mentions not any and the nature of the thing will not admit of any We can consider God in such a case but according to two different capacities either as a Law-giver commanding exhorting promising and threating or as an absolute disposer of Events and so bringing to pass in us the thing he commands us But whether commanding us or whether working in to he never stops at a bare profession he goes on to the truth of Holiness and Faith his Word enjoyns it his Spirit produces it So that whether soever of these two Calls you suppose the Church to obey it must either proceed to a true Conversion or be no Church for the proper and natural signification of the word is a Called Society but no one ever called it to an outward profession and no more XI I suppose it is a maxim among all Christians That Jesus Christ hath no more Churches than one and that this on Earth together with that in Heaven make but that one thus much we learn from the Trent-Catcchisin it self A sure method then of discovering the true nature and essence of the Church upon Earth would be to search into that in Heaven for it is plain were these of different natures they would be no longer one but two Churches of a several species Thus much I think must be granted and so likewise must the Conclusion I deduce from it viz. That either the nature of the Church Triumphant must exist in a bare profession or that of the Church Militant cannot If the Churches Unity here below be a Unity of Profession an external Unity only and the internal one be but accidental then the Unity of the Church above must be External too and no more and that Internal one resulting from the agreement of hearts and wills no more essential to it than to this below Otherwise as was said before they must be two different Churches Let them be so kind then to clear this Point Whether we must believe that a true Piety true Regeneration and true Holiness are

a full and final resolution of the case shall be given by the Word of God and such as refuse to submit to this shall be excommunicated Secondly he produced a formulary of a Letter Missive to the National Synods framed in the Synod of Vitre and which was to be a pattern for all the Provinces to follow for the future by which they promise submission to all the resolutions of that holy Assembly to obey and execute every particular of them as being perswaded says the Formulary that God will preside there and lead you into all truth and equity by his Holy Spirit and by the Rule of his Word Besides that he produced an Act of the National Synod held at Charenton in the Year 1644. where the Independents opinion is condemned who will not allow that particular Congregations should depend upon the Authority of Colloquies and Synods but that every one should be governed by Laws within it self Now this Act expresly declares that that Sect opens a door to all manner of irregularities and extravagances that it deprives men of all means of remedying disorders and would if admitted make as many several Religions as Parishes Lastly he produced an Act of the National Synod at Sainte-foy by which upon occasion of some overtures for a re-union with those of the Ausburg Confession the Synod assigns Deputies to go and confer with them to whom full power is granted to agree upon and determine whatever points should be debated whether in matters of Doctrine or any other thing that might concern the Good and Peace of all the Churches even so far as to consent that their Decisions should be inserted in their Confessions of Faith From all which he inferred That even those of Mr. Claude's Religion did acknowledg a necessity that in order to the preservation of Unity in the Church men should submit their Judgments and pay an entire and absolute obedience to Ecclesiastical Assemblies without leaving themselves at liberty to examine their determinations or judg whether they were agreeable to the Word of God or no and that upon refusal of this Obedience it was just to proceed to Excommunication That this was exactly what the Church of Rome would have and that she desired no more But that we nevertheless in our disputes with her advance a quite contrary Principle He therefore entreated from Mr. Claude a distinct answer to this Point and would quietly hear what he could say to it Adding moreover that Mr. Claude ought to be the more ready to reply upon this subject because no new thing was proposed to him the same Acts and the same consequences that he now deduced from them being to be found in his Exposition of the Catholick Doctrine Mr. Claude first of all replied That although his coming thither was not with intentions to hold a Conference strictly and by rule yet he was extreamly glad that he had now an opportunity given him of testifying to M. de Condom how much he esteemed his person and that having no particular worth of his own he thought it a great honour that a Prelate of M. de Condom's Character should single him out to engage in Controversy with him That he would endeavour to give him satisfaction in each of the points now propounded to him and that if in the following part of the Discourse any expression should escape from him which might be offensive to M. de Condom he protested before-hand that it should be much against his will and design To this M. de Condom replied in very civil and obliging terms and Mr. Claude then resuming the discourse told him That in general whatever he had alledged just before did by no means infer such a blind and entire submission to the determinations of Ecclesiastical Assemblies as the Church of Rome pretends to impose That we must distinguish between two sorts of Authorities the one supream and unlimited the other limited and depending to the former we owe a full and perfect obedience to the other a conditional one only The former M. de Condom was sensible is by the Protestants attributed to God alone speaking to us in the Holy Scriptures and that the second was it they allowed the Pastors of the Church considered either single and by themselves or met together in a Synod or Council That their Authority being only Ministerial is restrained two ways one is That they must frame their decisions not of their own heads nor after their own fancies but according to the Word of God the other That they must always allow the persons under their Jurisdiction the priviledg of examining those decisions that so they may know whether they be really agreeable to God's Word Whence it follows that the obedience due to them ever goes upon this condition that they have not swerved from the Word of God That the Authority of Pastors and Assemblies composed of such cannot extend further than that of our Parliaments in the State of France who are not empowered to alter old Laws and enact new ones and whom we are priviledged nay obliged to disobey so oft as their Injunctions are prejudicial to the King's Service and the Allegiance we owe him That the Authority of Church-Assembles can at most be but as that of Fathers over Children because both God and Nature have invested Fathers with it The Fathers have a right to Act in their Childrens names because they have a right of Educating and Commanding them and the Scripture frequently enjoyns to Children a readiness to learn and obedience to their Fathers yet does it not follow from hence that Children are not priviledged and obliged to examine their Fathers Instructions and Commands whether they be true or false just or unjust and what shall appear to be false and unjust that to reject That nevertheless the Authority of Pastors and their Assemblies is really very great as is likewise that of Parliaments and Fathers notwithstanding their Authorities are under some limitations That the Pastors are as publick Trustees for the keeping God's Word appointed to study and meditate upon it continually thence to deduce necessary truths for the peoples improvement and to save private men a labour which they cannot always attend to because diverted and perplexed by the business of the World That so long as the Pastors discharged this Duty well the people were obliged to obey and submit to their words but when they deviated from it they were to be looked upon as false and treacherous persons Afterwards he came particularly to those Acts M. de Condom had urged and told him That the Clause of Submission contain'd in the Letters Missive to National Synods must be understood according to this Principle and under these Limitations because grounded upon this Supposal That all things would be managed there according to God's Word For those expressions Being perswaded that God will preside among you and lead you into all Truth by his Holy Spirit and by the rule of his Word do imply a