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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	absolute_a	according_a	act_n	72	3	6.0319	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A28848	A relation of the famous conference held about religion at Paris between M. Bossuet, Bishop of London, late tutor to the Dauphin, and Monsieur Claude, minister of the reformed church at Charenton at the Countess of Royes house in the presence of several persons of the first quality at the request of Mademoiselle de Duras, daughter to the famous Marshal de Turenne, she being then upon changing her religion / translated from the French copy, as it was lately published by Monsieur Claude.; Conference avec M. Claude minstre de charenton, sur la matier̀e de l'eǵlise. English	Bossuet, Jacques Bénigne, 1627-1704.; Claude, Jean, 1619-1687.	1684 (1684)	Wing B3790; ESTC R15735	27,560	22

of his Church by his Holy Spirit after an infallible manner Nay and this said he appears in the act of the national Synod of Charenton against the Independants for the reason then and there alledged That if their principle was suffered there might be as many Religions as Parishes concluded for the absolute Obedience to the decisions of the Synods since if it was allow'd to particulars to examine the ultimate decisions not only then might be as many Religions as Parishes but as many Religions as Persons and that by consequence there would be no way to preserve the Unity of the Faith or the Unity of the Church As for what concerns the Deputies which the synod of Sainte foy nominated to go and confer with those of the confession of Augsbourg he said he did faithfully acknowledg that how full power soever the synod might have given them the intention however of the Synod was not that it should depend of them to overturn all or to put if he durst make use of that expression the Cellar in the Garret and the Garret in the Cellar that he really beleived that the synod meant that what they effected should return to them and that in such sort of things a Ratification is allwayes necessary But that it was a very amazing thing and to which M. Claude had not made any answer that this synod had offered to insert in the Confession of the Faith what the Deputies concluded with the Lutherans For this is making a doubt of the confession of their faith of which we were however told that it contain'd nought else than the pure Word of God wherein nothing was to be changed D' ye think said he one can change the articles of your confession of Faith M. de Condom having ceased speaking M. Claude said that he would answer to all the points of that discourse and desired him to afford him a peaceable audience Whereunto in the first place he said that M. de Condom does misapprehend the Article of the Disciplines which bears that in case they do not acquiesce in the decision of the consistory nor in that of the provincial synod things shall remain in the same state untill the National where shall be taken the last and final resolution from the Word of God to which those who shall not acquiesce shall be retrenched from the Church For it is not said if either that the Decisions of the consistory and of the provincial synod ought not to be made by the Word of God in like manner with those of the National or that this Word has not an equal authority whether that it be declared either by the consistory or by the synod of the Province or by the national synod or that it be precisely to it alone in as much as such that we ow an entire obedience But this order added he was established for two reasons very different from that which you have pretended the one is that therein appearance that the examination of the Word of God upon the point of question shall be made in the consistory with less exactness and light than in a synod composed of all the Ministers of a province nay and with less light and exactness in a provincial then in a national synod which is commonly sound to be composed of all the most sagacious and most able persons in a Kingdom The other Reason is That People may have prepossessions against a Consistory which shall hinder 'em from listening to it with all due docility whereas it will not be so in regard of a Provincial Synod which will be look'd upon as less interessed and more empty of Passions and personal Prepossessions and by Consequence they will hearken to it more peaceably In short those sort of Personal Passions and Interests having still much less room in a National Synod composed of Persons far distant who assemble from all parts of the Kingdom in all probability People will not entertain any prejudice against them and by consequence will receive the Word of God from their mouth with more docility and listen to 'em in a better disposition He said then that this order had been taken for the avoiding as much as possible two inconveniences the one That the final Decision might not be made lightly inconsiderately out of passion and a humane Interest The other That the prepossessions against the persons might not be an Obstacle in the Parties to give Ear to and receive the Word of God with Obedience and Submission of Faith which is owing it But that from thence it could not be concluded that in the sense of the Discipline it was not alwayes according to the Word of God in as much as such and not to the authority of the Assembly that the Obedience ought to be rendred That as to the Rest the Decision of the National was called Ultimate and Final because that in the humane Order and in the present state of things there was no going further As for the Letter-missive to the National Synods he made answer That it did no more Conclude the absolute Submission that the Act of the Discipline since that the Condition of Judging according to the Word of God was therein expressed by these Terms Being persuaded as we are that God will Preside therein by his Spirit and his Word As to the reason alledged by the Synod of Charenton against the Independants he said That it did not suppose a blind Obedience That the Dependance which particular Churches have of Coloquies and Synods is an Exteriour Order which tho' it does not contain an Exteriour and infallible Means to preserve the Church in the Unity of the Faith does not fail nevertheless to be of very great use for that very purpose and that it is ever to be presumed that the Blessing of God will accompany it since it is an Order which he himself has Established That the Independants who reject this Order deprive themselves of this means and expose themselves willingly to that inconvenience of having as many Religions as Parishes insomuch that the Synod had reason to make them this Reproach That there is no saying of the same thing of the Principle of the Protestants which by rejecting the Blind Obedience and absolute Submission does nevertheless preserve the outward means useful and proper for the maintaining the Unity of the Faith And as to what M. de Condom has said That without the absolute Obedience there might happen to be as many Religions as Parishes he owns it might so happen humanly speaking notwithstanding the practice of the order and Ecclesiastical Assemblies for humane Wit is of it self subject to an infinite number of Errors But that this cannot happen if a regard be had to God who Blessing the outward order and communicating to his truly Faithful and Elect one and the same Spirit maintains them by that means certain and infallible in the Unity of one and the same Faith and by consequence in that of one and

A RELATION OF THE Famous Conference HELD ABOUT RELIGION AT PARIS BETWEEN M. Bossuet Bishop of Condom late Tutor to the Dauphin AND Monsieur Claude Minister of the Reformed Church at Charenton AT The Countess of Royes house in the Presence of several Persons of the first Quality at the Request of Mademoiselle de Duras Daughter to the Famous Marshal de Turenne she being then upon Changing her Religion Translated from the French Copy as it was lately Published by Monsieur Claude LONDON Printed by H. C. for Thomas Malthus at the Sun in the Poultrey 1684. A TRUE AND EXACT ACCOUNT OF THE FAMOUS CONFERENCE BETWEEN THE Bishop of Condom AND Monsieur CLAUDE An Account of what passed in the Conversation which the Bishop of Condom the Dauphins Tutor had with Monsieur Claude at the Countess of Royses house in the presence of Mademoiselle Marchalle de Lorge the Countess de Roys Mademoiselle de Duras the Marquiss de Miremont Mademoiselle de Roucy and Monsieur Cotton SOme dayes before this Conversation Mademoiselle de Duras went to see Monsieur Claude whom she told she had some Scruples about Religion and took out of her pocket a Paper which had been given her containing some passages of S. Augustin touching the Eucharist to which M. Claude made answer and then fell to showing her by other passages that the Doctrine of that Father upon this Subject was the same with what was taught at Charenton and herewith she seemed satisfied On the morrow Monsieur Claude chancing to see her at the Countess of Royses house after a pretty long Discourse she told him she could wish he would have in her presence a Conference with some Roman Catholick Doctor or other M. Claude made answer That this was in no wise practised that such Conferences might have Dangerous consequences and that she knew very well that the State of those of the Reformed Religion in France and in particular at Paris obliged 'em to use many measures of Prudence and of Pre-caution But said she What course would you take if by Chance you met with any of those Gentlemen and that you were urged upon Points of Religion sure you 'd not abandon your Cause In such a case said M. Claude I would avoid entring into Dispute as much as possible I could but being forced to it I would give a Reason of my Faith and in those unforeseen Occasions people are not us'd to flinch and run away But why added he d' ye ask me this Question That 's not the matter in Dispute Two daies afterwards th● Countess of Roy● told M. Claude how endeavours were us'd to ●ave him meet as if i● wer● by Chance with M. de Condom and how she had thought it fitting to give ●im ●otice of that Design If I we●● to meet said he with any one I should rather choose it should be with M. de Condom than any other Because he is a Wise Honourable and Understanding Man and for whom I have a great Esteem and Consideration but being as I am a Publique Person methinks this ●usiness does deserve to be well ●ho●ght on and weighed Sho●●ly after he gave an account of this business to two of his Frie●ds an● the● all thr●e we●t to visit a Person of Quality of an extraordinary Merit and consummated Prudence with whom it was concluded that this Rencounter with M. de Condom was absolutely to be avoided The Reasons were that People already knew Mademoiselle de Duras was wholly disposed to Change her Religion that according to all appearances she only demanded a Conference to do it with the more Sol●mnity and to make use of it as a Pretext and that what success soever it might have 't would not hinder her from Changing or from saying she had not been satisfyed and that the Gazette also would not fail to make it an Article The Person of Quality who was consulted took upon him to visit the Countess of Roye and make her relish these Reasons And she relish'd 'em indeed and eas'ly comprehended their Strength But notwithstanding all she could do i● lay not ●n her power to disswade Mademoiselle de Duras from her first intention This Lady compla●ned highly of being abandoned saying this was e'en what she had often been reproach'd with that the Ministers dare not appear before the Catholick Doctors To which she added Tears to touch the Countess her Sister by all manner of means proceeding even to protest that if People did but know what Good this would do her they would certainly have this Charity for her This obliged the Countess of Roye to endeavour the bringing about the Interview of M. de Condom with M. Claude and she did it to that purpose that M Claude found himself as it were forced to grant it her that so he might not be exposed to the insult of those of the contrary Religion She assured how M. de Condom had told her that he wished this Interview might be by form of Rencounter that it might not be published in the world and that there might be no affecting to speak of it on either side Tuesday the first of March about two a Clock in the afternoon M. Claude went alone to the Countess of Royes houses whither came presently after Madame la Mareschalle de Lorge Mademoiselle de Duras M. le Marquis de Miremont and M. Cotton About a quarter of an hour after M. de Condom came alone The first Civilities being over and all the Company seated M. de Condom adressing his speech to M. Claude told him That he had been desirous of seeing him to propose to him some things of the practice of those of his Religion which he thought entirely contrary to their Principles That those things consisted first of all in an Article of their Discipline which orders That in case there arises any Contention touching the Doctrine the Question shall be decided in the Consistory by the Word of God and that in case they do not acquiesce it shall be removed to the Provincial Synod and from thence to the National Synod where the entire and final Resolution shall be made by the Word of God and to which those who shall refuse to acquiesce shall be Excommunicated That in the second place he produces a Formulary of Letter-Missive to the National Synods drawn up in the Synod of Vitre for to be thence forward followed in the Provinces by which People promise to Submit themselves to all that shall be resolved on in that Holy Assembly to be obedient thereunto and to execute it from point to point being persuaded says the Formulary That God will provide therein and conduct you by his Holy Spirit in all Truth and Equity by the Rule of his Word That besides this he produced an Act of the National Synod of Charenton held in 1644. wherein is condemned the Opinion of the Independants who will not allow that particular Churches depend on Colloquies and Synods but that every one may govern

that a blind obedience is to be paid to the decissions of the assemblies nor that it was the sense of the Synod of Charenton As for the deputation which the synod of Sainte Foy made of four persons to go confer with those of the confession of Augsbourg and to whom it gave a full power you cannot draw from thence said he any advantage For it was with those Deputies as with Ambassadours which the King sends with full power to propose treat and conclude as Plenipotentiaries which are sent to negotiate the Peace How full soever their power be and tho' they are called Plenipotentiaries the condition is always naturally understood that they shall do nothing contrary to the true interest of their Authorizers to whom what they do must necessarily revert for to be approv'd and ratifyed without which nothing would de done that they ought to be understood that full power given by the Synod to its Deputies for the hearing of those of the confession of Augsbourg for the receiving their propositions their complaints their overtures to make the like to them reciprocally to receive from them illustrations and return the like nay and to agree with them if possible but not to be the absolute Masters of the Faith nor to receive blindly all they should have concluded For in such sort of things the cause of recourse to the Authorizers and the necessity of ratification is naturally understood To which M. Claude added this consideration that if the point in question was the true sense of an act of the Roman Church of a Canon for example of the Council of Trent M. de Condom would doubtless find it more just to receive it from him than from M. Claude because the thing in dispute was the sense of a Church whereof M. de Condom is a member and that in all probability he ought to understand it better than a man that is not so I expect then from you My Lord Bishop said he the same equity which if you 'd receive from me the sense of the Acts in dispute at least unless the sense I give 'em be contrary to that of the Doctours of my communion or evidently illusory or contrary to our other principles but if the sense I give of those acts has nothing of that methinks you have no right to reflect it nor to fancy to your self any other M. de Condom renewing the Discourse said that he would begin where M. Claude had ended because that he had said in the last place seem'd to have some justice and truth at first tho' it had nothing at all of solidity That what M. Claude said would be true if the point in issue was no more than explaining their rights and the manner or administring the Word and the Sacraments in that he should think him better informed and that he did not at all intend to hinder him from explaning it as he pleas'd the sense of those who had set up their discipline and made the acts he urg'd That he knew they denyed that they ought to submit themselves without examination to the judgment of the Church But that he pretended this absolute submission was so necessary that those very people who denyed it in speculation could not forbare establishing it in practice that thus they were fallen into a contradiction and that 't was what he pretended to prove and wherein he was not obliged to beleive M. Claude For if the thing in dispute was to show any contradiction in the sentiments of the Catholick Church he would not urge for authority it's explication nor hinder M. Claude from drawing from the terms of the Councils such conclusions as be thought fitting M. de Condom making then pawse M. Claude reply'd that since 't was certain that those who had made the acts in dispute deny'd that people should submit themselves without examination to the judgment of Ecclesiastical assemblies he had at least this advantage that by M. de Condoms own confession the explication he gave to those acts was conformable to the principles of the Protestants who had made them and that it was much more reasonable to receive it than to fancy to one's self a sense which entangled 'em in a contradiction that if the thing in dispute was any act of the Church of Rome he would make no difficulty to receive the sense which M. de Condom should give thereof conformable to the principles of that Church unless the very words of the act should oppose it in which case he might induce the contradiction and if M. de Condom was upon those terms in regard of the acts alledged it would be easy to see upon what terms he established that pretended contradiction M. de Condom said how that was no difficult matter to make out That he made it consist in regard of the discipline in that on the one side it required that the decision of the Doctrine should he made in the consistory by the Word of God that it also understood that it was performed in the provincial Synod by the Word of God as well as in the national and that on the other it requir'd that if they did not acquiesce to the decision of the consistory or to that of the provincial Synod things should remain in the same state until the national Synod where it sayes shall be performed the entire and ultimate Resolution by the Word of God to which if they do not acquiesce they shall be retrenched from the Church Which clearly show'd that the acquiescing which was required for the decision of the national was founded not upon the Word of God precisely as such for the decision of the Consistory and that of the synod of the province had been also made by the Word of God precisely as such and nevertheless the appeal was allowed of But that it was founded upon the Word of God in as much as explained and interpreted by the last judgment of the Church that is to say upon its being the last and final resolution and by consequence upon the authority of the assembly considered in it self Now this is said he a manifest contradiction to the principle which denyes the absolute submission to the judgment of the Church that this was confirmed by the discipline which did not order any Excommunication against those who do not acquiese in the decisions of the consistory and of the provincial Synod and yet ordained against those who refuse to obey those of the National The same thing said he appears by that letter-missive to the national Synod For how can we promise and sware we will submit to all that shall be resolved therein without supposing we ow to the Church an entire and absolute submission Say that we submit thereunto upon the perswasion we have that God will preside therein by his Spirit and his Word and upon this sware that is to say that upon this perswasion is founded on an express promise that God will conduct the last judgment

shunning pride and presumption make men blind themselves for if there be not an absolute obedience owing to particular Doctors as M. de Condom did aver it there is then neither pride nor presumption in believing it may so happen that one may understand the sense of the Scripture better than them tho' people are obliged to presume Charitably probably that this will not happen That it was the same thing in regard of the Assemblies which not being of themselves infallible ought not to pretend to have an absolute obedience paid them being a thing which is only owing to God that St. Paul himself had said there was no dominion over the Faith of the Corinthians M. de Condom said this passage was ill alledged and ask'd M. Claude if he did not think an absolute Obedience was owing to Saint Paul M. Claude made answer that an absolute Obedience was owing to things divine which Saint Paul taught and not to his person neither is it said M. de Condom to the persons who compose the Councils we pretend that Obedience to be paid but to the Holy Spirit which conducts 'em according to what the Council of Jerusalem said it has pleas'd the Holy Spirit and us When the Holy Spirit said M. Claude appears in the Decisions of the Councils as it appeared in the Doctrine of Saint Paul and in that of the Council of Jerusalem we ought to render them that Obedience and not otherwise Now it appears therein when their decisions are framed according to the Word of God M. de Condom insisted there was no question about the Word of God but about the true sense thereof M. Claude said t●is distinction was of no use for the true sense of the Word of God and the Word of God are but one and the same thing There M. de Condom return'd to the Independants and said that upon the principle of M. Claude there was no way to avoid Independantisme nor prevent the being as many Religions as Parishes as many Religions as heads That the Independants did not reject the Assemblies for instructions but that they would not allow the Assemblies should decide by authority and that the pretended reformed were conformable to them He repeated over and over the same thing a pretty while to which M. Claude reparteed what he had already answered that in truth there was no humane means certain and infallible to hinder the errors of the with of man but that there was one divine and infallible which was the Holy Spirit which God communicated to his true Beleivers and that the Synods and other Assemblies were useful means and proper for that purpose and that the Independants had only been condemned because they rejected these last and not because they would not allow the Assemblies should decide with an entire and absolute authority that tho' the Protestants did not allow Assemblies a soveraign and illimited authority they allowed them however all the authority that Ministers and the Dispensers of the Word of God can have This would be disputing everlastingly said then M. de Condom I ask you once again Sir if you believe meer particular Persons can understand the sense of the Word of God better than the whole Church Assembled in a Council M. Claude said he had already answered him to that viz. that it did not commonly so happen nay and that People were obliged to hope better from the Ecclesiastical Assembly but that it might nevertheless happen that humane passions and worldly interests prevailing in an Assembly the Decisions would not be squared therein according to the truth There 's no having recourse said M. de Condom to humane passions nor to worldly interests you must answer in a word to the question and say yes or no. Humane passions and worldly interests said M. Claude are very reasonably urg'd upon this subject for those are the principal causes of erroneous Decisions but since you will not allow 'em to be spoken off to you I le answer you by distinguishing and saying that God does not allow that this ordinarily happens but that in absolutely speaking it may happen M. de Condom said he demanded but that and how 't was the greatest of all absurdities to beleive it may come to pass a meer particular person may better understand the sense of the Scripture better than a whole Church Assembled in Council M. Claude made answer how he wondered he should tax us of so great an absurdity what was but an effect of the freedom of God in the dispensation of his Grace That if the point was concerning humane Lights there would be absurdity in saying that a meer particular person had more understanding than a whole Assembly and that this would be a principle of pride and presumption But tho the thing in issue was the Lights of the Holy Spirit which breathes where it pleases and which God may possibly not give to a whole Assembly when he shall give it to meer particular persons that this same thing had effectually hapned in the time of Jesus Christ according to what he himself had said in Matt. I give thee thanks O Father Lord of Heaven and Earth for that thou hast concealed those things from the Wise and Vnderstanding and hast revealed them to the little That the whole Judaick Church had determined in its Assemblies that Jesus Christ was an impostour That it was nevertheless not only a Church out the only Church in the world invested with all the authority of God who had founded nourished and brought it up untill that time that God had instructed it by his Apostles had made in the depositary of his Oracles That with a just Title it gloryed in a succession of two thousand years that its Assemblies were in the former and Jesus Christ Himself own'd it they are seated said he in the Chair of Moses all the things they shall bid you keep keep them and do them That nevertheless this Church had determined the most Capital and most Criminal of all Errours which was to reject Jesus Christ as a wretched person and an impostour that then it must necessarily have been said that meer particular persons might better understand the sense of the Scripture than the whole Body of the Church Assembled and that if the principle of M. de Condom was true namely that one must have an absolute submission for the Decisions of Ecclesiastical Assemblies without attributing to ones self the right examining 'em it would be to condemn Jesus Christ and all those who should beleive in him For according to this Principle Jesus Christ ought not to address himself to the People after the Decisions of the Church which were contrary to him neither ought the People to have given ear to him since they were no longer allow'd to examine what had been decided nevertheless added he I. C. did not forbare preaching to the People and converting several the People also listened to his motion notwithstanding the Decisions that were

Scripture and I ask you by what principle that Child beleives the Scripture to be Divine that the Book of Canticles for Example where there 's not a Word spoke of God is divine Either that child that 's a Christian who has received the Holy Spirit and the Faith infused by Baptism and is a member of the Church doubts of the Divinity of the Scripture or does not doubt of it if not he beleives it then Divine by the Authority of the Catholick Church which is the first Authority under which he lives if he doubts of it a Christian may then doubt of the truth of the Scripture M. Claude made answer that he might have something to say upon M. de Condoms supposing that every child baptized received the Holy Spirit but that he would not insist upon what is spoken by the by nor deviate from the principal subject in question wherefore he 'd be contented with making some reflections upon what M. de Condom had just urg'd The first said he shall be that probably the first knowledge which the Holy Spirit gives to the Child of the Catholick Church is by his Creed wherein he says Credo Sanctam Ecclesiam Catholicam Never theless in the Creed this Article is posteriour to the Articles of Doctrine since it begins with God the Father Almighty and continues with Jesus Christ and with the Holy Ghost after which comes the Catholick Church Now it appears clearly from thence that Faith of the Doctrine does not depend on the Authority of the Church for otherwise the symbole must have been compos'd after an other manner and say at first I beleive the Catholick Church and by the Catholick Church I beleive in God the Father c. My second Reflection said he is that you cannot suppose as you do that first authority under which the Child begins to live is that of the Catholick Church for certain it is that the first Authority under which a Child lives is that of his Father or that of his Mother or if you will that of his nurse and how that of the Church can only come afterwards and in some sort by dependance on th● other Now from thence it follows that this first Authority which is the Paterna may as well conduct the Child to the Scripture as to the Church In the third place said he there is nothing more easy then to retort your argument against your self Either the Child Baptized doubts of the Authority of the Church or does not doubt of it if he does not doubt of it he beleives it then by the authority of the Scripture for he cannot by any other way beleive it of Divine Faith and by consequence it is not the Church which makes us beleive Scripture but it is the Scripture which makes beleive the Church which is that we aim at If he doubts of it see here then a Christian who has received the Holy Spirit and Faith infused by Baptisme and who is a member of the Church who can doubt of the first authority on which depends the rest of the Faith That the Child cannot beleive of Divine Faith the Authority of the Church but by that of the Scripture I prove it for if it is not by the Scripture that he beleives the Church and its authority it is then either by way of inspiration and enthusiasm or by the Authority of his Father of his Mother or of his nurse or by argument drawn out of the very Nature of the Church It cannot be out of enthusiasme for the Holy Spirit does not act in that manner Neither can it be by the Authority of the Father or the Mother or Nurse for you see this would be to establish those sorts of authorities for the first principle of Faith neither can it be by proof and arguments drawn out of the very nature of the Church for as in your argument you suppose the Child has not yet read the Scripture I suppose also in mine that he has not yet Meditated upon the Nature of the Catholick Church and knows only its name It then remains that the Child believes the Catholick Church by Scripture which is what you do not allow off or does not beleive it at all and that he doubts it which is the same inconvenience you would have thrown me in in regard of the Scripture Here a body may say with truth that M. de Condoms Wit was not in its usual state and how that freedom which is natural to it was sensibly diminish'd He undertook to maintain that the first Authority under which a Child lived in respect of Religion was that of the Catholick Church and not that of the Father or Mother M. Claude replyed that there was no denying a thing so clear as that that the first Authority in respect of Religion is that of the Father or Mother who took the first care of the Education of the Child or that it was from them that the Child learnt the first time that there was a Catholick Church to which he ought to range himself or that there was a Scripture which was Divine and to which he ought to submit himself Now the point being to know by what means the child might believe the Authority of the Catholick Church he had only to chuse either the way of Enthusiasm or that of the Paternal Authority or that of the Scripture which might instruct him M. de Condom replyed the faith of the child in the Authority of the Church was divine because 't was the Holy Spirit that formed it in him M. Claude reparty'd that the thing in debate was not the cause efficient which produced that Faith in the child but the argument by which it was produced that if M. de Condom understood that the Holy Ghost produced it in the child without proof and without argument it would be a kind of Enthusiasm and yet the Holy Ghost did not act in that manner M. de Condom said that in effect there were Motives of credibility to which M. Claude replyed that if he gave the child time to examine the Motives of credibility by the Authority of the Church and to perceive the force of 'em he also would give the same child the time to examine the Motives of credibility for the Authority of the Scripture and to perceive the force of them and this being so he must renounce his argument which suppos'd the child as not yet having read the Scripture But is it not true said M. de Condom that in this state either the child doubts or does not doubt of the Divinity of the Scriptures But said M. Claude is it not true that in that state either the child doubts or does not doubt of the authority of the Church for if you suppose the child before his having read the Scripture I suppose him also before his having read the Motives of credibility for the authority of the Church You are obliged to answer to my argument and the same