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A82528 A friendly debate on a weighty subject: or, a conference by writing betwixt Mr Samuel Eaton and Mr John Knowles concerning the divinity of Iesus Christ: for the beating out, and further clearing up of truth. Eaton, Samuel, 1596?-1665.; Knowles, John, fl. 1646-1668. 1650 (1650) Wing E121; Thomason E609_16; ESTC R205964 49,997 66

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In those days shall Iudah be saved and Ierusalem shall dwell safely and this is the name wherewith she shall be called Iehovah our righteousness Also the City Ierusalem is called Iehovah Ezek. 48.35 And the name of the City from that day shall be Iehovah is there Yea the Altar which Moses erected when the Amalekites were discomfited is called Iehovah Nissi The Lord my Hunter Exodus 17.15 I know you will not say that the Church is the most High God much less the Altar or City Ierusalem yet you may see that the Incommunicable name Iehovah is communicated to them How your inference concerning Christ may be justified is yet not evident but remains dubious not onely for the commonness of the name but also because this Iehovah is said to be raised by another v. 5. THE Scripture which occupies the next place hath been already insisted on wherefore that which follows being Iohn 8.58 John 8.58 Before Abraham was I am is now to be spoken to Answ The words rightly understood will no ways countenance your inference from them In the words we have a Grammaticall Figure which they call Enallage whereby one time is put for another as here the present tense for the praeter Am for Was Before Abraham was I was and so they note out and signifie one or both of the things that follow 1. That Iesus Christ was instituted and revealed before Abraham had a being If we take the word I to signifie the Whole of Christ there is a necessity that the words be thus understood for Christ according to the flesh was not in being before Abraham was That he was revealed before Abraham was is clear and evident for the seed of the woman at the beginning was made known to Adam That he was ordained before Abraham had a being is from Scripture not a little manifest as 1 Pet. 1.20 And by the same reason he may here be said to be before Abraham was as he is elsewhere called the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world Rev. 13.8 2. That he had a reall being and existence before Abraham was this cannot be asserted of whole Christ and therefore according to this Exposition the Figure Synecdoche whereby the whole is put for a part must be understood in the Text. It is granted by all that contend for and by some that deny the Divinity of Jesus Christ that he had a being and existence before Abraham was but what this being was is the onely doubt Some affirm that Jesus Christ before he was born of the Virgin Mary had no other existence but in the Godhead and was onely to be considered as the Son eternally begotten of the Father Others assert that this conceit is neither Scriptural nor Rational but unsound and absurd and that he had a created being before Abraham was yea that he was the first creature and so Lord of all That this Controversie may be decided I shall lay down three Positions 1. That whole Christ doth consist of flesh and spirit Position 1 Every man is constituted of two parts flesh and spirit 2 Cor. 7.1 Iam. 2.26 and so is Christ as in Rom. 1.3 4. where the Apostle speaking of whole Christ mentions nothing but flesh and spirit According to the flesh that is the body of Christ he was of the seed of David But after the spirit of holiness he was the Son of God He that can finde another part besides those two or any nature besides what belongs to his flesh and spirit may have liberty to bring forth for ought I know what he may find out Position 2 That Christ before he took upon him the seed of Abraham did exist onely according to the spirit He had no being but a spiritual one But this is no controversall thing being on all hands concluded for truth The onely disagreement is whether this spirit of holiness after which Christ is the Son of God doth signifie the Divine Nature and Godhead or else the soul which was created or formed and did exist distinct from the flesh or body of Christ Wherefore the third Position is Position 3 That the Spirit of Christ according to which he was the Son of God is a Creature To support this take these Reasons 1. Because to affirm that the Spirit of Christ did exist distinct from his body and may be spoken of as a person is not in the least absurd For the spirit or soul of a man may exist distinct from the body and is spoken of as a person What are those spirits of just men made perfect Heb. 12.23 but the souls of good men glorified in Heaven whose bodies were in the graves In Luke 23.43 saith Christ to the Thief This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise Thou that is thy soul or spirit shall be with me that is with my spirit in Paradise 2. Because the titles which most properly belong to Christ before he took flesh do hold him forth to be a Creature first he is called the Son of God Luke 1.35 Now this title informs us of his Inferiority to God his Existency of God and his Superiority over all things 1. It holds forth his Inferiority to God God is his Father but a son is inferiour to a father and by the Law is bound to honour and obey him Wherefore Christ confesseth that his Father was greater then he Iohn 14.28 My Father is greater then I. And professeth that he did honour his Father Iohn 8.49 Iesus answered I have not a Devil but I honour my Father and ye do dishonour me That this might be put past all doubt he is called the Son of the Highest Luke 1.32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Highest and the Lord God shall give unto him the Throne of his Father David And therefore not the Highest for there can be but one Highest and he is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ 2. This title Son of God proclaims his Existency on God A Son is of a Father and therefore the being of a Father is before the being of a Son God as he is a Creator is the Father of all Eph. 4.6 And all men as creatures are Gods off-spring Acts 17.28 Angels and Men who are principall creatures are called the Sons of God Job 38.7 Luke 3 38. They that hold the Deity of Christ do affirm that the Son was of the Father by an Eternall Generation But what this Generation is they cannot declare and therefore call it ineffable Yet M. Perkins will tell us that the Son was generated of the Father in that the Divine Essence was communicated to him But who can tell what this Him was to whom this Essence was communicated And who can affirm that this Essence was communicated to this Him and yet assert and evidence that he was never without it And that he was God and yet distinct from the Essence for it is said that the Essence was communicated to Him Where Scripture
That which you add from the third verse of this Chapter will finde elsewhere a fitter place to receive an Answer in NOw I come to Matth. 28.20 Matth. 28.20 Lo I am with you always to the end of the world Answ Sir from the scope of your Paper it is easily seen what you would inferr hence but as yet the Reason of your inference lies in the dark the meaning of this phrase I am with you always unto the end of the World is no more then this I will do you good whilest ye remain imploy'd in my work My Authour in this Exposition is old Jacob no bad Interpreter Gen. 31.3 the Lord commanded Jacob to return into the Land of his Fathers and to his kindred and for his encouragement adds to the promise thus I will be with thee which Jacob in chap. 32.9 thus expounds I will deal well with thee or I will do thee good Jesus Christ is present with his Messengers or deals well with them when he doth instruct comfort strengthen or protect them and all these works he doth in his absence by his spirit whom the Father hath sent in his Name Joh. 14.26 Let me only for brevity sake instance in the work of instruction Christ instructed his Apostles but not immediately for the spirit which came in Christs Name and received of his was the Instrument by which Jesus Christ did the work John 16.13 14 15. When he the spirit of truth is come he will guide you into all truth for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear that shall he speak and he will shew you things things to come He shall glorifie me for he shall receive of mine and shall shew it unto you all things that the Father hath are mine therefore said I Hic locus de modo praeseutiae spiritus quo se suaque nobis communicat caeterum corpore abest Beza in loc he shall take of mine and shall shew it unto you Christ is now in Heaven sitting at the right hand of God and is present with the Saints in Earth by the spirit and glorious influences of grace and mercy John 14.16 17 18. This kinde of presence by the spirit Beza and others understand to be intended in Matth. 28.20 REv. 2.2 is now to be minded Rev. 2.2 whether it doth joyn with the fore-going Texts in speaking any thing by way of Justification to your Assertion or not Answ Christ could not say you at so great a distance know all the works of the Churches as meer man What could he not Is any thing too hard for the Lord What could the Prophet Elisha know at a very great distance what the King of Syria said in his bed-chamber And yet cannot Christ know at a distance He hath the spirit to wit wisedom power c. given him without measure John 3.34 And therefore can know beyond what we can conceive And yet is not the most high God for his knowledge is of another John 5.30 I can of mine own self do nothing as I hear I judge and my judgement is just because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which hath sent me Though he always knew all things necessary for the perfect discharge of his Offices yet there was a time when he was excluded from the knowledge of the hour and day of judgement Mark 13.32 The words from the Greek are these But of that day and hour no one knoweth neither the Angels which are in Heaven Nor the Son unless the Father Hence it is plain that the Father onely knew the day and hour of Judgement and that the Son himself was at that time excluded from the knowledge of it therefore this knowledge was not originally of himself nor always perfect COl 1.15 Col. 1.15 I finde next in your Paper but have already spoken to it yet was willing here to mention it least you should think I had forgot it Sir this Text you say holds forth the Eternal Generation of Jesus Christ I pray consider it again and by your next let me hear what part thereof it is in which Christs Eternal Generation may be seen THe next Scripture is Col. 1.16 Col. 1.16 with John 1.3 To which I shall add John 1.3 being reserv'd for this place Answ Sir here you harp upon two other strings and think they sound that alowd in your ears which you have entertained in your thoughts to wit that Jesus Christ is the most high God But pray Sir consider whether your Conclusion be the Eccho of those Texts or else of your own thoughts onely But you seem to gather this Argument from the words to manifest the verity of your thoughts He by whom all things were made is the most high God But all things were made by Jesus Christ Therefore Iesus Christ is the most High God I shall answer to your Major by distinguishing betwixt the Agent Principall and Instrumental That there may be in one and the same work one Principal and another Instrumentall Agent none will deny But whether there were in the work of Creation one Principall and another Instrumentall is a thing to be proved That the Father was Principall therein and so the most high God comes not under debate But whether the Son was onely Instrumental in that great work of Creation is the Controversie and must be the subject of our present inquiry I affirm that Iesus Christ was onely an Instrumentall Agent in the Creation of the worlds The Reasons by which I shall at this time guard mine assertion from suspition of errour are these that follow The first is drawn from the silence of all creatures The book of the Creatures as well as the book of the Scriptures Ex Creatioue agnoscitur Deus sed non Deus pater fil spir si quoni im vis illa efficiens quia mundus fuit creatus pertinet ad Essentiam Dei non ad subsistentiam ejus personalem Amesius speak forth with open mouth this sacred truth that there is one first cause and Principall Agent of all things Of a Trinity of Persons in Unity of Essence as Principal Agents in the work of Creation the whole Creation is wholly silent Wherefore our Divines acknowledg that God is known from the Creation but not God the Father Son and Holy Spirit because that efficient power by which the world was created belongs to the Essence of God not to his personall subsistence Yet by their leave God is a Person all actions being proper unto persons and therefore by their grant the works of Creation hold forth but one Agent who must needs be the Principall if not the only Agent therein for it is not imaginable that if there were then one Principall Agent they should not all be equally discovered by the work being equally concerned in it Therefore if Christ were an Agent he was but an instrumental one The Second Reason proceeds from the verdict of pure