formes and representations of things raised vp and conserued in those selfesame commotions are eftsoones exhibited to the phantasie or imaginatiue facultie at the verie same instant the commotion was made yea and eftsoones also euen in that selfe same manner and order wherein it pleaseth the disturber of our spirits and humours to conuaie those selfesame representations By which said meanes verie many and sundrie visions do foorthwith appeere to the phantasie as we may plainly perceiue in so many as are fearefully affected with Phrenesies Yea and which more is the matter it selfe may be brought to such issue as those selfe same representations which are inwardly conserued in the imaginatiue facultie they may and are eftsoones recalled to the externall senses themselues In so much as the partie preposterously affected therewith doth verie strongly imagine that he vndoubtedly beholdeth those selfesame things with his eies which were apprehended before in the phantasie imagination or common sense and are conuersant wholy therewith whereas in deed and in truth there was neuer any such matter existing essentially in outward appearance 3. Lastly many like admirable matters may verie easily and as it were with a trice be foorthwith effected both by diuels and by cogging companions either by the assistance of some precompacted confederacie or through the onely supply of some local motion Wherein partly by watchwords and partly also by the present exchange of one thing for another many admirable actions in an outward sensible seeming and by a nimble conueyance both may be and are eftsoones effected by seducing make-shifts and iuggling mates Now then all these the forenamed sundrie manners of working many admirable matters in outward shew how strange soeuer they seeme to the beholders themselues they are simply no miracles at all howsoeuer respecting our shallow reasons and stinted iudgements it pleaseth the Lord eftsoones to entitle them so in the sacred scriptures Come on therefore Exorcistes now that you haue sufficiently heard what a miracle is as also of the sundrie sorts of miracles doe tell me with whether of both these sorts of miracles aforesaid you do range your supposed admirable action wrought at Mahgnitton I meane whether we must esteeme the same a true or false miracle A true miracle you may not affirme it to be both because the same is vtterly destitute of all those the former essentiall causes of miracles and for that no such thing at all was euer effected as hath beene and shall be shewed at large Againe a false miracle I beleeue you will neuer auouch it to be for feare of being forthwith concluded some such cunning Impostor as hath only by iuggling sleights and falfe legerdemaines a long time bewitched the minds of the simple Exorcistes I account it no miracle in any respect And surely if your selfe or any other haue conceiued thereof as of a miracle and thereupon also haue thought hardly vpon it for that the miraculous actions are thought to be ceased you are therein by your patience verie deepely deceiued Physiologus Why sir is not the driuing out of Diuels a miracle Exorcistes In deed to cast out diuels by a commanding word so as one no sooner commaundeth the spirit to goe out but foorthwith he departeth as Christ and his Apostles did this I confesse is not onely a miracle but of them the greatest Howbeit by meanes of prayer and fasting to driue out Satan or rather to entreat Christ to whom all power is giuen in heauen and in earth to cast foorth Satan is no miracle at all Physiologus And why so I beseech you Exorcistes Because of the meanes that is vsed For whatsoeuer is brought to passe by meanes that same is no miracle because of that saide meanes be it neuer so woonderfull as might be shewed but for breuities sake by a thousand instances Physiologus You are either a great frend vnto breuity or breuity a good shelter to your wether-shaken cause at the least Notwithstanding for that you go about by a bare pretence of meanes to make a mere nullity in many miraculous actions as shal be shewed hereafter this I must be bold to tel you as it were by the way that either I wholly mistake your meaning or your selfe do vtter you wot not what For if by the word meanes you vnderstand such a meanes as hath essentially in it owne selfe some energetical force either naturally or artificially for the orderly effecting of matters namely such a meanes as hath in it selfe naturally some naturall consonancy concerning the action entended as hath naturall foode for the orderly conseruation of our naturall being or if otherwaies you vnderstand such an artificiall meanes as hath in it selfe artificially an apt correspondency vnto the purposed businesse as hath the carpenters axe to the hewing and squaring of logs then you say true Because any thing effected by such essentiall meanes hath in it â—elfe no extraordinary or supernaturall power how admirable soeuer in shew but is ordinarily effected by mere naturall or artificiall meanes at the least and therefore howsoeuer a woonder yet no miracle in any respect Howbeit if by the word meanes you vnderstand some such supposed phantasticall meanes as neither naturally nor artificially hath in it selfe any ability disposition or aptnesse at all to any such action entended as are all created or mere naturall meanes whatsoeuer to euery of those extraordinary and supernaturall actions which wholly concerne the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels then this your speech respecting especially the point of our question is too to absurd and sencelesse Neither shall you euer be able though you set breuity aside for the present and take what leasure best liketh your selfe to giue vs herein so much as one onely true instance out of all those your pretended thousand instances whereof you so brauely vaunted before Exorcistes You goe about I perceiue very sleightly to ouerslip the maine point of my argument by this your cunning new-coined distinction of meanes Physiologus Nothing lesse I assure you And therefore seing you are so resolute do frame your owne argument that you may foorthwith receiue an answere directly vnto it Exorcistes I frame it thus Whatsoeuer is brought to passe by meanes that is no miracle But the driuing out of diuels by praier and fasting is brought to passe by meanes therefore the driuing out of diuels by praier and fasting is no miracle Physiologus First make plaine the ambiguous terme meanes in your maior proposition and tel me plainely whether you vnderstand thereby any such essentiall meanes as either naturally or artificially at least hath in it selfe some energeticall force for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels Exorcistes I vnderstand not any such essentiall meanes at all but such a meanes rather as doth accidentally befall the action entended that selfesame accidentall meanes not hauing any further force in it selfe for expelling the diuel then pleaseth the Lord to blesse it withall
a corporall matter both may be and is also so farfoorth in the power of the diuel as appertaines to a local motion this al men do hold And therefore the diuels by their owne proper power and without any perceiuance at all to humane sense they might through some such local motion take away with a trice the sorcerers rods from the ground and put in their place true naturall serpents taken by them from else where And this vndoubtedly they might doe in a moment through the agility and nimblenesse of their owne proper nature For euen as the mind of a man it being a spirituall substance can easily accomplish her animall operations and as it were with a thought so surely the diuel he being also a spirituall essence he is able much more speedily to accomplish his spirituall actions and in far shorter time Lycanthropus As though the diuels so couertly and with such vnspeakeable speed could conuay true naturall serpents in place of the rods but some must needes haue perceiued the same Physiologus The diuel you know he is an inuisible creature Besides that this we see plaine in our owne experience that a Iuggler by meanes of such local motion and through the nimble conueiance of his onely hand he can so sleightly and so cunningly conuey one thing in place of another as the beholders themselues they do not onely not perceiue the legerdemaine but which more is they are vndoubtedly perswaded that the Iuggler he hath essentially transformed the first matter in sight into some other substantiall forme Now then if a meere mortalman by the onely nimblenesse of hand can so easily effect such admirable matters why should we imagine the same impossible for spirits and diuels Pneumatomachus Wel sir proceed in the pursute of your purpose Physiologus Lastly spirits and diuels being naturally nimble and swift as was showed before they might by a local motion apply true naturall actiues to naturall passiues vpon which application there would vndoubtedly ensue like naturall effects As for example wood fitly applied to fire by the hand of a man fire is foorthwith ingendred in the matter of wood And yet that fire so engendred is efficiently engendred by the fier it selfe as by a naturall and proper agent although yet withall that selfsame fier is also ministerially effected by the very hand applying the same And euen so without doubt the diuels they might easily apply some naturall matter preexisting in a neere disposition to the forme of true serpents and withall subiecting the said matter vnto some proper agent might by such meanes engender true naturall serpents and vnperceiueably put them in place of the rods whereas yet those said serpents so engendred were efficiently engendred by some proper agent although withall they might truely be said to be ministerially effected by the sorcerers themselues as by the verie hand of the diuell effecting the same Euen as also the husbandman by applying and mixing wheat with earth may ministerially be saide to bring foorth the said wheat himselfe Yea and these things may spirits and diuels more easily and more speedily accomplish then men may possibly doe for many respects First because they vnderstand the power of naturall causes much better then men Secondly they are much more nimble then men in gathering and applying those naturall causes Lastly for that those naturall causes so assumed of diuels may also by them be applied to farre greater and more woonderfull effects then possibly they can be by men Lycanthropus You affirme incredible things For how could the diuels possibly finde either serpents or any other matter in a neare disposition to serpents for that so sudden an ingendring and placing of true serpents in place of the rods Physiologus I speake not incredibly at al if you rightly consider as you ought that the diuels were especially assisted herein with a towfold power namely with the power of nature and with the power of obedience Lycanthropus What meane you by the power of nature Physiologus None other thing els but that diuine action of nature wherin the Lord God from the worlds beginning doth of true matter measurably compounded by a determinate agent through a local motion effected also in time euen voluntarily procreate some certeine determinate effects Nowe then the ordinarie assistance of this selfesame naturall power doth ordinarily befall to men to spirits and diuels in all ordinarie and naturall productions of formes so farre foorth especially as they by a naturall knowledge are able rightly to comprehend compound and applie the same Yea and the assistance of this selfesame naturall power was not wanting at all to the diuels in those their appearances of true naturall serpents as was shewed before Lycanthropus And what meane you by the power of obedience Physiologus I vnderstand thereby that extraordinarie subiection wherein all things without determination or repugnancie doe euen readily submit to the will of God as to the onely supereminent soueraigne ouer all causes formes and effects whatsoeuer This selfesame power of obedience not onely the Lord himselfe immediately and with no preexistence of matter almost doth exercise by himselfe alone euen from the beginning but euen howerly also by holy men and by good Angels and diuels doth administer the same So that whensoeuer the Lord commandeth any strange action surmounting the ordinarie power and course of nature to be foorthwith effected then doth he extraordinarilie take vp the aforenamed persons as the onely fitte instruments of that his diuine and supernaturall power Nowe then this power of obedience albeit the same doth not ordinarily attend vpon the pleasure and becke of men or of diuels yet the diuels vndoubtedly they had at that present by some secret priuiledge from God the extraordinarie assistance also thereof in those selfesame appearances of true naturall serpents Yea and this also according to the secret decree and counsell of God who hauing predetermined the destruction of Phaaroh did by this meanes harden his hart and so made a passage to the timely execution of his iudgements vpon Phaaroh himselfe and all the Egyptians Exorcistes Notwithstanding these two presupposed powers assisting the diuell in those your supposed appearances me thinke it is cleere by the text it selfe that the Sorcerersrods were truelie transformed to serpents and I argue it thus If those rods were no true serpents but serpents onely in an outward appearance then is not that true which is set downe in the text namelie that the sorcerers Likewise they cast downe their roddes and they were turned into serpents Physiologus I answere you thus It is vndoubtedly true whatsoeuer is set downe in the text and may verie well stand with that which I say For be it it supposed the Sorcerersrods were turned as you say into serpents yet were they not truely so turned I meane they were not existingly but appearingly turned into serpents And this distinction is verie fully borne foorth
sorts of workers Commonlie and indifferently I confesse an author in a more common and more ample signification howbeit a fauourer only of good and a director of all actions whatsoeuer to the good of his children and glorie of his name As more plainly appeareth in the person of Iob whom the diuell could no further afflict then the Lord had appointed By all that which is spoken it is therefore verie apparant that notwithstanding anie thing hitherto heard the actuall affliction of Saul it might something be lessened though the actuall possession of satan if anie such there was still continued Exorcistes Well sir I argue it further thus If a melodious sound may effectually procure such an apt disposition in the minde of a man as may make it more able to receiue and recouer afresh some supernaturall gift being lost before then may it much more procure such an apt disposition in the body of man as may euen vtterly disable the same from the speedie apprehension of any such naturall affliction as is naturally inflicted by satan But the first is vndoubtedly true as appeereth in Elisha the man of God who onely by hearing a melodious harmonie recouered foorthwith the supernaturall gift of prophesie and therefore also the other in like manner is apparently euident For an actiue vertue hauing an abilitie in that which is greater it hath much more abilitie in that which is lesse Yea and this also verie fitly accordeth with the text it selfe which telleth vs plainely that when Dauid but handled his harpe the euill spirit departed foorthwith from Saul Physiologus Howsoeuer your antecedent befitteth your humour the same I assure you is vtterly vntrue For first the prophet Elisha he had not vtterly lost the supernaturall gift of prophesie as your selfe verie falslie and fondly imagine howsoeuer being somthing disquieted in minde by reason of the wicked kings presence he perceiued himselfe vnapt for the present to any such spirituall enterprize And for that onely respect he purposely required that some cunning musition by playing and singing before him might quiet his troubled minde and quicken his dulled spirits for his better enabling afresh to that so sacred and so blessed a busines Againe if the Prophet as you falslie affirme had euen vtterly lost indeed that selfesame supernaturall gift then surely the sensible sound of a melodious harmonie had beene vtterly vnable of it selfe to recouer the same Because created vertue such as that musicall harmonie was it could not effectually extend it selfe to the timely apprehension of any such supernaturall action or habite as prophesying is Onely it might be some meanes to reuiue and to quicken the appaled spirits of the prophet Elisha for the better preparing of him to that action but againe to recouer that supernaturall gift of prophesie being vtterly lost it had beene vtterly vnable Notwithstanstanding all this let vs admit your antecedent for currant which will neuer be prooued so yet your consequent or inference enforced from thence is too too weakely confirmed by the rule you alledge Telling vs incōsiderately that any actiue vertue hauing an abilitie in that which is greater it hath an abilitie also in that which is lesse This rule I assure you it concludes not your cause no it commeth short thereof by manie degrees in as much as the same is not vniuersally true but holdeth onely in things essentially subordinate in one and the selfe-same kinde and not else For this is no good consequent A man is able to beget a man therefore he is also able to beget an asse Neither is there any sequell in this A man is able to carrie a great stone therefore he is able also to carrie a great fire Thus then you may plainely perceiue by all the premisses that the actuall affliction in Saul it might something be lessened though yet the actuall possession of satan if any such there was still continued And therefore this the example of Saul who was eased a time by Dauid his handling the harpe it concludeth no absolute dispossessing of spirits and diuels by any created sensible or meere naturall meanes whatsoeuer Exorcistes Well sir how lightlie soeuer you esteeme of these matters it is vndoubtedly true that my selfe dispossessed the yoongman at Mahgnitton yea and this onely by meanes Physiologus By what meanes I beseech you Exorcistes Euen by the onely meanes of fasting and praier Physiologus But whether was it done by your fasting alone or by your praier alone or by your fasting and praier togither Exorcistes Not by any meanes of either alone but by a mutuall concurring of both in that selfesame action Physiologus Put case you had attempted the worke by your praier alone what then woulde your endeuour therein haue beene voide Exorcistes Yea no doubt For by that extraordinary exercise of fasting my praier it became the more forcible and my spirit was made the more powerfull in the timely performance of that admirable enterprise Physiologus So then the whole efficacy of that selfesame action as your speech doth import it depended especially and onely vpon the extraordinary exercize of your fasting alone as vpon that which gaue a power to your praier and which made your spirit the more apt to that enterprise O absurd and sencelesse opinion This sauoureth very shrewdly of the Montanists errour who did attribute so much to their voluntary exercise of fasting and praier as for that selfesame respect they inuented their adusting and drying vp diets for the more forcible effecting of those ther fondly affected fooleries And were therefore very fitly termed temperate continent persons So surely your selfe at this present in this your pretended dispossession of spirits and Diuels you make your extraordinarie exercise of fasting the onely efficient cause of that selfesame supposed dispossession of the diuell at Mahgnitton For first you dispossest him forsooth by the onely meanes of fasting and prayer But your prayer you say it became the more forcible and your spirit was made the more apt by the extraordinarie exercise of your fasting it selfe therefore the extraordinarie exercise of your said fasting it selfe was the onely efficient cause of that selfesame supposed action For whatsoeuer doth make another thing to be such as it is that same thing no doubt is much more so it owne selfe But your extraordinarie exercise of fasting it made your prayer more powerfull and your spirit more apt for that selfesame dispossessing of Satan therefore your said extraordinarie exercise of fasting it was the onely efficient cause of that selfesame dispossessing of Satan This not onely mannageth much the Montanists errors as was shewed before but which more is it doth verie shrewdly support the superstitious and Popish opinions of fasting Who not onely repose to much spiced holines in the voluntarie vsage thereof but make it withall verie satisfactorie for sinne and propitiatorie for the silly poore soules departed to purgatorie Whereas
possession we tolde you was ment an essentiall or personall entring in men the which we vtterlie reiected as a palpable vntruth absurd in Philosophie and vnsound in Diuinitie as by vnanswerable arguments authenticall authorities and plaine euidence of Scripture was apparantly prooued vnto you Telling you further that if such a reall possession be granted the same must be either a mentall or corporall possession The real-ment all possession we flatly denied Because else the possessed mans minde it must needs be a locall-receptacle essentially and substantially comprehending the diuell for the present which by the verie swaie of arguments the authoritie of writers and plaine euidence of Scriptures we fully confuted And this also in effect was the verie summe or scope of our second conference Exorcistes I remember it well Orthodoxus Then next concerning the reall-corporall possession that also we reiected as fond and friuolous it being a matter neuer purposed by the Lord himselfe in the first creation of bodies For else the minde it selfe must be vniustly charged to answere all those her animall and organicall operations which without any her consent and approbation are violently enforced vpon the possessed mans bodie or if the possessed himselfe being freed from those operations the diuell alone should be called to account for the guilt of those actions then something concerning the possessed himselfe should be acted by him to no purpose Besides that such a real corporall possession the diuell being onely a spirituall substance cannot possiblie be perceiued of the possessed himselfe but onely effectiuely and therefore there can be no sensible perceiuance of any such essentiall possession vnlesse we retaine the Platonists opinion concerning corporall diuels A thing directly opposite to reason to the testimonie of writers and the plaine euidence of sacred Scriptures And this also as I take it was in effect the summe of our third conference Exorcistes I may with no good conscience denie it Orthodoxus Then next because your selfe so earnestly insisted vpon the reall corporall possession it was further declared vnto you that if the same should be granted the diuels then they must necessarily haue such a kinde of possession either by assuming to themselues some true naturall bodie or by transforming themselues into some true naturall bodie at least Their assuming of true naturall bodies wee flatly reiected as an opinion too too vnreasonable absurd and most senslesse whether we vnderstand the same of bodies created before or of bodies then foorthwith to be created And that therefore the diuell his tempting of Euah by the Serpent the Angell his deliuerie of a sensible speech by Baalam his Asse the diuell his supposed assuming of Samuels bodie with such other examples and Scriptures which verie manie doe most ignorantly vrge for this matter they are too too grosly and fondly abused as we prooued vnto you by arguments by writers and by the sacred scriptures And this also if I be not fowly deceiued was in effect the summe of our fourth conference Exorcistes I dare not denie any part thereof Orthodoxus Then next for the diuell his transforming of himselfe into any true naturall bodie we declared vnto you the impossibilitie and most palpable absurditie thereof notwithstanding the Sorcerers rods transformed as you thought into true naturall serpents the supposed transfiguring of Nebuchad-nezzer into an oxe with such other examples Shewing you withall by the conference of places that that place of Scripture which speaketh of Satan his transforming of himselfe into an Angell of light was misunderstood of the most Neither may the same or any like places of scripture be litterally vnderstood of any essential transformations because that work was neuer in the power of a diuel No he cannot possibly transforme him selfe into any true forme whatsoeuer if Christ his argument concerning the non visibility and palpability of spirits and diuels be without contradiction which it could not be if the diuel was able but onely in outward appearance to transforme him selfe into any true forme whatsoeuer as wee proued by reason by fathers and by the canonicall scriptures And this also was in effect the summe of our fift conference Exorcistes I wil at no hand contradict your report Orthodoxus Hauing thus dispatched the supposed real possession of spirits and diuels we entred then into a like serious consideration of their actuall possession shewing you first what it was and then next the seuerall parts thereof Namely either a mentall afflicting and greeuing or a corporall tormenting and vexing We shewed you further that this actuall possession was onely in vse in the daies of Christ and of his disciples Howbeit the maine ends thereof namely the declaration of Christ his deity and the confirmation of his glorious Gospel being in those daies very effectually accomplished the possession also it was by our Sauiour himselfe verie fully and finallie determined Yea and the determination of this actuall possession we confidently auouched notwithstanding any one matter pretended by you for the perpetuitie thereof as was directly prooued by force of argument by the plaine testimonie of ancient writers and the ineuitable euidence of the sacred Scriptures And this in effect was the summe of our sixth conference Exorcistes It was vndoubtedly so as you say Orthodoxus And then next because you insisted still vpon the perpetuitie of actuall possession by an argument drawne from common experience in all that beheld your supposed action wrought at Mahgnitton wee prooued directly vnto you that this their supposed experiēce it could be accoūted no currant experience in deed Both because manie like admirable matters may be demonstrated from meere naturall causes effects and diseases and for that also a meere naturall experience when the same is brought to the best it may be no competent Iudge in such supernaturall matters A thing opposite to Diuinitie to Philosophie to Physicke to Nature to Lawe and to Conscience as may verie plainely appeere whether we respect the action it selfe or the manner of doing the same Then after all this we came to entreate of Satan his power of obsession which consisteth especially in an outward assaulting and circumuenting or in an inward suggesting and tempting And this also in effect was the summe of our seuenth conference Exorcistes The whole truth thereof is without contradiction Orthodoxus Hauing thus handled the power of spirits and diuels whatsoeuer we came next to entreat of that extraordinarie working power whereby their saide power was subdued Shewing you directly that the same was either immediate in Christ the stronger or mediate in some certeine speciall persons extraordinarily mooued to that selfesame busines Againe the mediate power we told you it was either Apostolicall I meane in the Apostles themselues an admirable extraordinarie good meanes to confirme their extraordinary preachings or else Ecclesiasticall that is in the seuentie Disciples and some others succeeding And that therefore this Ecclesiasticall power it was more especially to be considered againe in
the selfesame cause So then it is not the martyrdome it selfe but the cause of the martyrdome that maketh a martyr You are not therefore simply to reioice in suffering but in suffering especially for righteousnesse sake And who is it I pray you that can harme you at all if only you follow the thing that is good On the other side what praise is it vnto you if when you be iustly buffetted for your owne faultes as herein you haue been you take it patiently But if when you do wel which vndoubtedly you should do in yeelding submission if then I say you suffer euil vndeserued by vndergoing with patience the cynical censures of some giddy conceitours this is thankworthy and acceptable before the Maiesty of our eternall God And therefore this your primary respect for not submitting your selfe it is you see very fond and preposterous Exorcistes Yea but by this my submission I should giue our aduersaries great occasion to insult ouer the brethren afresh in farre better causes then this as we found by experience how highly they triumphed ouer the intended discipline of late by reason of Hackets Arthingtons and Copingers seductions Orthodoxus If your owne dealings in these your preposterous courses doe as deepely discredit the holy ordinance of praier and fasting as Hackets seduction disgraced in the iudgement of some the entended church discipline I hope then you will neuer account much lesse entitle them aduersaries to sincere religion howsoeuer opposite to these your practises that shal seeke by due meanes to suppresse the irregularity of your intemperate humour Otherwise if these your disordered attempts haue ministred iust occasion for any to insult ouer the brethren as you say afresh in far better causes then this when you see such fearfull effects to follow your fooleries you may neuer blame the insulters themselues but your owne indiscretion Howsoeuer I do aduise you in all loue to reckon this late-giuen occasion as the very principall among the rest of your sins and make it a perpetuall meanes to your better humiliation before God and men As for the inconsiderate and vnchristian insultings of any ouer good and Christian causes let not their euil dealings that way make you to constant in euil Exorcistes But yet sir by this so vnseasonable a submission of mine I should scandalize the zealous professours and offend sundry honorable and noble personages both Lords and Ladies with diuerse others of good estimation who fauouring rightly the reformation haue mightely affected my cause and bountifully mainteined my person and state Orthodoxus Your conscionable reiecting of an inueterate error and your zealous entertaining of a newly reuealed truth can euer scandalize such sincere professours as are zealously and rightly religious As for offending any honorable personages or others in any account who wishing reformation haue hetherto affected your cause and mainteined your person know this and know it for truth that if those honorable personages euen in a sincere regard of some holy reformation haue hitherto affected your cause so far foorth at the least as they supposed the same to be sound and good then doubt not at all but that they wil much more affect your holy and hoped conuersion so soone especially as their enlightned iudgements shall once but soundly perceiue the infallible truth Yea and which more is they will then be much more forewards in supporting your person and state then euer before Otherwise those your maintainers they might be supposed to affect your cause and to support your person in an onelie malcontentednes rather against the persons of some in authoritie then in any true mindednes towards reformation indeed And which more is you your owne selfe by persisting as you doe in your errour you may be supposed of all as you are shrewdly suspected of some to be rather their humorist in an onely respect of their hier then anie their approoued martialist to mannage these matters in any right reuerend regard of their honours This therefore you see is but a sielie respect to hold you from such an holy submission Exorcistes Yea but by such my submission I shoulde foorthwith depriue my selfe from all Ecclesiasticall functions For this is held an vndoubted truth among the preciser sort that a man so groslie falne doth make foorthwith a flat nullitie of his former ministerie Orthodoxus Put the case that some concerning this point are much more peeuishly precise then prudently wise will you therefore in an onely regard of their itching humours refuse to do good to your selfe and manie others of more temperate spirits For tell me I praie you who is able to make a flat nullitie in any mans ministerie but he alone who enableth and calleth whomsoeuer he will to the ministerie Exorcistes Verie true as you say respecting simplie his gifts and graces there is none able to make a flat nullitie in anie mans ministerie saue onely the Lord. Howbeit respecting the orderly execution and vse of those gifts the Church she may and she ought to make a flatte nullitie in the ministerie of such are groslie falne Orthodoxus If there be none other stoppage at all to this your submission but onely the feare of forgoing your ministerie this feare I hope it may soone be remooued For if none but the Lord be able to disable your gifts then none without warrant from the Lord is able to disable the orderly execution and vse of your gifts But no such warrant haue anie from the Lord in all the Bible Besides that if the Lord bestoweth and continueth his gracious gifts in anie being orderly called before to the ministerie for the edification of others who may without warrant disanull and discontinue the orderly execution and vse of those gracious gifts in anie being orderly continued in the ministerie for the edification of others For if vnfained repentance doth set an offendour in statu quo prius in his former estate with God and man notwithstanding any his former offences why should not an vnfained repentance set a poore minister being falne by occasion in statu quo prius in his former estate with God and man for the orderly vse of his ministerie notwithstanding anie his former offences Otherwise why did not the Church in former times disanull and discontinue the orderly execution and vse of gifts in Dauid in Peter in Paul in Iohn Marke in Demas and diuers other both ordinarie and extraordinarie persons In all whom did breake foorth no lesse apparant disorders then this one of yours yet the Lord continuing in them his gracious gifts the Church still enioyed the vse of those gifts Discharge you therefore a good conscience by testifying truely your vnfained submission and then if the Ecclesiasticall gouernors vpon aduised deliberation shall deeme it conuenient to emploie you afresh in the vse of your gifts let those your preciser sort set vpon them if they please for such their imployment of one so groslie offending In the meane time
Hermes Trismegistus Hugo Cardinalis Harmonia confessionum Henricus Iaakob Hortus sanitatis I IOsephus Isidorus Iacobus Pamelius Iohannes Brentius Iohannes Drusius Iohannes Chrysostomus Iohannes Caluinus Iohannes Piscator Iohannes Auenarius Iohannes Ferus Iohannes Wierus Iohannes Wulcurio Iohannes Bromyard Iohannes King Iohannes Bodin Iustinus Martyr Iulius Scaliger Iohannes Darel Iohannes Gorraeus L LAmbertus Danaeus Leonardus Culmanus Leonardus Fuchsius Laurentius Codmanus Lauaterus Leuinius Lâ—mnius Ludulphus Lucas Lossius Legenda aurea Lucianus M MArtinus Bucerus M. in historijs Methodius Michael Psellus Marcilius Ficinius Malmesburius Malleus mallificarum Marcus Vigerius Moses Barsephus Moses Pellacherus N NIcephoras Nicholaus Lyra. Nicholaus Hemingius Nichol. Selneccerus Narration of Darel O OTho Casmannus Origines P PAulus Frisius Patricius Paulus Aegenitus Paulus Burgensis Petrus Martyrus Petrus Lambertus Petrus Thyreus Philosophus Pellicanus Philippus Barough Plinius Plutarchus Pompanatius Prosper Proclus Pythagoras R R. D. Kimhi Rodulphus Gualterus Robertus Rollocus Reginaldus Skotus Rhemish Testament Robertus Pontus Ruffinus S SEbastianus Martyr Stenchus Eugubinus Strabus Sanhedrin editio Basiliens T TErtullianus Thomas Aquinas Theophylactus Theodoretus Theodorus Beza Theupolus Timotheus Brichtus Tatianus Thomas Cooperus W WOlfgangus Muscul. Wilel Minatensis Wilelmus Fulke Wilelmus Perkins X Xantis Pagninus Z Zozomenus FINIS The seuerall arguments of the seuerall Dilogues following in order The first Dialogue pag. 1. The Argument 1 THat there are essentiall Spirits and Diuels as appeereth plainelie from their essentiall creations and effectuall operations Their spirituall and substantiall being The second Dialogue pag. 31. The Argument 2 THe power of Spirits and Diuels Their possession what it is with the seuerall parts thereof And whether the Diuell doth essentially enter into the possessed mans minde or not The third Dialogue pag. 64. The Argument 3 WHether Spirits and Diuels doe essentially enter into the possessed mans bodie or not And whether for that purpose they haue peculiar to themselues their true naturall bodies The fourth Dialogue pag. 99. The Argument 4 WHether Spirits and Diuels can assume to themselues true naturall bodies What bodies they are said to assume And how those Scriptures are to be vnderstood which be for this purpose produced The fifth Dialogue pag. 165. The Argument 5 WHether Spirits and Diuels can essentiallie transforme themselues into any true naturall bodie And how those Scriptures are to be vnderstood which many produce for that purpose The sixt Dialogue pag. 131. The Argument 6 OF actuall possession what it is And whether Spirits and Diuels in these daies of the Gospell do now actually possesse either the minde or the bodie by any extraordinarie afflicting or vexing The seuenth Dialogue pag. 199. The Argument 7 COmmon experience what it is Whether the actuall possession of Spirits and Diuels especially that supposed in the yoong man at Mahgnitton may be prooued thereby And of the Diuell his power of obsession The eight Dialogue pag. 232. The Argument 8 OF the vndoubted true force for the timely subduing of this the forenamed power of the Diuell Whether any created meanes may therein preuaile And whether praier and fasting haue any power in themselues to effect such a worke The ninth Dialogue pag. 263. The Argument 9 WHether praier and fasting be established by Christ as a perpetuall ordinarie meanes for the powerfull expelling of Spirits and Diuels Whether the power therein be a vocall or a personall power Or whether a true iustifying faith apprehending some supernaturall power of God doth effect that worke The tenth Dialogue pag. 304. The Argument 10 WHether a miraculous faith apprehending the power of God for the powerfull expelling of Diuels be yet still continued what a true miracle is And whether the working of miracles be now fullie determined in the true Churches of Christ The eleuenth Dialogue pag. 339. The Argument 11 A summarie recapitulation of all the premisses verie concludentlie repeating and proouing the precedent purpose with a patheticall perswasion to subscribe to the vndoubted truth thereof A briefe Analysis or summarie resolution of this present treatise the same affoording vnto vs Certaine Dialogicall discourses declaring especially 1. that there be spirits diuels this prooued from 1. Their essentiall creation 2. Their effectuall operation 2. What we haue to consider in them namely 1. Their power the same being a power either 1. Of possession and this also is either 1. Reall the same being either Mentall 1. essentially in the mind Corporal 1 essentiallie in the body by their assuming of true naturall bodies their traÌ„sforming of true bodies 2. Actuall this also either by a mentall afflicting and grieuing a corporall tormenting vexing 2. Of obsession which stands either in an outward assaulting and circuÌ„uenting inward suggesting and tempting 2. The subduing of that power by a power 1. Immediate and this in Christ. 2. Mediate by others this either Apostolicall hauing from Christ a power ouer diuels Ecclesiastical it being in the church either Primitiue wherin the continuaÌ„ce of that power Successiue wherin the compasse of that power DIALOGICALL discourses of SPIRITS and DIVELS The first Dialogue THE ARGVMENT That there are essentiall Spirits and Diuels as appeareth plainely by their creation and operation Their spirituall and substantiall being The speakers names PHILOLOGVS LYCANTHROPVS PNEVMATOMACHVS PHYSIOLOGVS ORTHODOXVS EXORCISTES Philologus WHat Lycanthropus and you maister Pneumatomachus my olde companions well mette at this present From whence come you whether walke you so fast if a man may be bolde to enquire the same at your hands without offending your persons or hindering your busines Lycanthropus We come euen now from that famous citie Mahgnitton my good friend Philologus and are presently trauelling towards the Iland of Eirtwab with speede vpon verie speciall and vrgent busines concerning the glorie of God and the good of his Church Philologus What newes from Mahgnitton I pray you Lycanthropus Newes sir the strangest newes I assure you that hath been heard of this hundred yeeres Philologus What newes is that Lycanthropus Of a yoong man there Who being reallie possest with a Diuell was very strangely or rather miraculously deliuered by prayer and fasting Philologus How strange newes soeuer the same seemeth to vs verie certaine it is as appeeres in the Gospel that Diuels haue been driuen foorth by prayer and fasting Howbeit that the Diuel should now in these daies of the Gospell haue a reall possession in any is greatly doubted of the most and very flatly denied of some Lycanthropus The real possession of Diuels may iustly be called in question if Pneumatomachus his opinion be canonized for currant who very confidently auoucheth that there are neither Spirits nor Diuels at all Which being so howe should there be a reall possession of Diuels in any Philologus Verie true for Diuels must first be before they can haue a reall possession in men But Pneumatomachus he holds I am sure no such opinion vnlesse it be for argument sake Pneumatomachus Yes I am verie confident
essentiall being The rather because euery creature else how contemptible soeuer being once created it hath an essentiall substance and if the basest of all then much more the Angels they being indeed such excellent creatures Pneumatomachus Well goe to how next from their effectuall operations Orthodoxus Thus their operations haue beene and now are apparantly euident to all the world whether we respect the Lord or his church So that for any to doubt of their essentiall being is to call in question the sun-shine at mid-day and as wel may he denie their operations whatsoeuer Pneumatomachus Good sir is this your substantiall proouing of Angels and Spirits I denie that the Lord God euer created any Angels at all and then to what purpose doe you vrge their supposed operations Orthodoxus Sith you so confidently denie both Spirits and Diuels tell me what you imagine those to be which we generally hold for Spirits and Angels Pneumatomachus Sir I take those your supposed spirits for none other matters at all but the good or euill motions and affections arising in men as also those your imagined Angels I hold them to bee nothing else but the sensible signes or tokens of Gods vnspeakeable power Orthodoxus You do then conclude it should seeme that our faith concerning those matters is grounded altogither vpon bare supposals and idle imaginations of wandring braines I like well your plainnes in laying open your minde although I alowe not your pestiferous opinions iumping so pat with the Parepateticall and Sadusaicall sort Who flatly denying either Angel or Spirite do confidently auouch that there is nothing immortall in man which is a verie dangerous gulph of hell that deuoureth and swaloweth vp all sound diuinitie and sincere knowledge of God For first by opposing your selfe against all the essentiall spirits and powers of the Lord what doe you else in effect but implicatiuely reiect the essentiall being of the holy Ghost and then next you do also by consequence verie flatly deny that there is any God at all for what I pray you is God but a Spirite Pneumatomachus Nay sir howsoeuer I oppose my selfe to the catholike opinion of Spirits and Diuels I do confidently auouch and confesse that there is one true euerliuing God of an incomprehensible inuisible and spirituall essence distinguished into the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost And moreouer concerning men and my selfe I do with like confidence verie cleerely acknowledge that euerie of vs also are essentiallie endued with spirituall and immortall soules Orthodoxus You cannot faithfully finally hold these infallible truthes from your hart but you must and will presently banish those other palpable errours from out of your brest For euen as Aaron his rodde deuoured foorthwith the counterfeite rods of all the Egyptian Sorcerers so surely these your confessed truths concerning the essentiall spirits and powers of the Lord being faithfully held from the hart will in the end I doubt not be another Aaronicall rodde to confute and confound those other Sadusaical sorceries wherewith the Diuel hath so dangerously bewitched your soule Lycanthropus Verie true if he be not to opinionate therein Pneumatomachus Sir howsoeuer I haue beene hitherto opinionate in this speciall point I am notwithstanding very loth that reason should be ouerruled by will or that the holy truth of God should giue place vnto errour and therefore proceed I beseech you in the timely vnfolding of this hidden mysterie Orthodoxus With very good will wherein also for your speedier conceiuing of that which is spoken we will first lay open the originall fountaine from whence this errour floteth abroad and then next hauing fully answered your arguments we wil directly prooue vnto you both Spirits and Diuels Exorcistes A very excellent order For there by first you shall cleere our iudgements and then next you shall the more fully confirme vs in the infallible truth Lycanthropus That is certainly so But what thinkes Pneumatomachos Pneumatomachus I acknowledge no lesse and do promise withall to giue an attentiue eare to whatsoeuer is spoken Orthodoxus Well then to proceede therein accordingly this I dare boldly affirme that your Parepatetical opinion or rather that this your Sadusaicall sorcerie concerning the non being of Spirits and Diuels proceedeth directly from a two-folde false ground Namely first from the naturall corruption of your proper minde and secondly from a carelesse misconstruing of some certeine places of Scripture Both which saide false grounds albeit I could and might well relate them my selfe yet because the first is rather Philosophical then Diuine I do purposely put ouer the prosecuting thereof as of al other like points to this my good brother if it please him to trauell therin reseruing the latter to entreate of my selfe Physiologus Sith it is your good pleasure to haue it so I will gladly giue my endeuour to satisfie the man so it seemeth him good Pneumatomachus With all my hart if first you will tell me who you are and what is your name Physiologus I am I assure you a friend to the truth and my name is Physiologos Pneâ—matomachus In very good time be it spoken But may I be bold by the way to aske you a question without offence Physiologus Propound at your pleasure and aske what you please Pneumatomachus Was not your name also purposely giuen to purport vnto vs your proper nature For Physiologus you say is your name which vnlesse I be fowly deceaued is as much to say as a babler or pratler of naturall Philosophie or it signifieth rather some notable discourser of naturall causes I hope you are none of those cogging companions of whom the Apostle doth wish vs beware who goe purposely about to spoile men with Philosophie and vaine deceit Orthodoxus Nothing lesse For the man I assure you is both a sound Philosopher and a sincere Diuine Neither would I haue you once to imagine that Paul doth there purposely oppose himselfe to all true Philosophie whether naturall or morall no but reprooueth rather that false and counterfeit Philosophie which hauing onely an appearance of truth and not the substance of truth it selfe is cunningly foisted in by cogging companions to spoile and deceiue mens mindes of the truth indeed For otherwaies all true Philosophie is the speciall gift of God and a principall helpe to Diuinitie so far foorth especially as she is made a submissiue Moderatour in naturall causes and not a commaunding Mistres ouer Diuinitie Then I assure you shee comes in her naturall kinde and thrice happie is he that hath a true insight into her according to that old accustomed saying Foelix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas The wight that could all causes skan Might count himselfe an happie man Now then such a Philosopher is this and therefore be bold vpon my warrant to harken freely vnto him concerning the first ground of your errour Pneumatomachus I credit your words let him therefore proceede in his purpose Physiologus
a blush that God and spirits haue visible formes and corporall substances And thereupon you doe rashlie conclude that spirites and Diuels must necessarily be euen such as your selfe by those places suppose or none at all But now because you your owne selfe with your corporall eies did yet neuer behold any such corporall Diuels as you by those Scriptures haue grossely imagined therefore you doe flatly resolue with your selfe that there are neither spirits nor Diuels at all Pneumatomachus Why what other thing else should those corporall formes attributed to spirits Diuels in the sacred scriptures import but either that Diuels and spirits are visible substances if those scriptures say true or that there are at the least neither spirits nor Diuels at all as I haue hitherto held Orthodoxus That the scriptures say true being truely vnderstoode no true harted Christians may dare to denie That there are also both spirits and Diuels though in truth and in substance they haue no such visible formes as those places of Scripture do literally import shall be prooued anone In the meane time this I must tell you for truth that those scriptures which attribute to God and spirites a corporall forme as eies eares hands feete bodies wings such like may at no hand be expounded literally but must rather be metaphorically and spiritually vnderstoode of vs. So that by any those corporall formes we may not grossely conceiue in God or in spirites such corporall members appertaining especially to their essentiall being but we must spiritually vnderstand â—hereby those their supernatural vertues operations and actions which by such corporall formes are metaphorically commended to our humane capacities And without doubt such a carnall misconstruing of scriptures was the onely maine cause which made the silly old monkes in elder times to fall fearefully into the palpable errour of the Anthropomorphites who by vnderstanding such scriptures literally did groslie attribute to God such humane actions and passions as are proper to men The holie scriptures then I perceiue they may not be interpreted hand ouer head neither are they in euery place to be opened literally Orthodoxus Nothing lesse for so should you fall into a thousand absurdities And therefore vnlesse you will purposely shew your selfe a swinish Saducee or impudently make your selfe knowne a monkish Anthropomorphite be now ashamed I beseech you of this palpable grossenes and hold confidently with the catholike church that there are essentiall spirites and Diuels Philologus Pneumatomachus howe goeth the matter Pneumatomachus That which hath beene hetherto spoken doth sufficiently set foorth a twofold ground of erronious opinions Howbeit this my opinion concerning the non being of Angels or spirits appeares not for any thing heard as yet to be erronious at all And I yet verely thinke as before that Diuels are none other thing else but those good or euill motions in men which doe maruellously comfort or afflict their minds Orthodoxus Thinke you so as you say Goe to then tell me I pray you what was the Serpent that tempted our grandmother Euah in Paradice Was that any good or euill motion in Euah If so then tel me further whether you thinke that motion was within or without her If within her how came the temptation then from the Serpent and from without her altogether But if it came from without her how should then the temptation be iustly accompted any motion of hers sith the same cannot truely be said to arise from within her Againe if you take Diuels to be but the good or euill motions in men what thinke you that tempter was who tempted Christ in the wildernes Was it thinke you any motion in Christ If yea then whether was it an euill or a good motion An euill motion you may not auouch it to be because Christ being free from all sinne could not possibly haue in him any euill motion at all As also it were verie absurd to affirme it a good motion for how could that motion be good which tempted Christ vnto euill Moreouer if you take Diuels for the good or euill motions in men what thinke you then that Legion was wherewith the two men were possessed Could the motions of men craue leaue and enter into a whole heardship of Swine And what became of those motions when they were cast foorth by our Sauiour Christ Were they drowned together with the Swine in the Sea If so what then became of the men themselues from whom as you dreame those motions arose Were they dead all the while their mindes were bereft of their motions For the minde you know is in perpetuall motion Or if those men all the while and euer after their motions were cast foorth and drownd in the Sea remained still in their liuely estate it should seeme that Spirits and Diuels are some other essentiall powers then the bare motions and affections arising in men Briefly if Diuels be nothing else but the good or euil motions in men what thinke you those tormentours to be which vexe and torment men in Hell with the Diuell and his Angels Yea and doe tell me I pray you what goeth to Hell the good or euill motions If only the euill what then must become of those other which were good in the man For sith none in this life can possibly be either so good or so euill but that they haue in them both good and euill motions it cannot otherwaies be but that either the good and euill motions in men must after this life be monstrously confounded together or else if the good motions goe roundly to Heauen and the euill vnto hell then the bodie and soule must be diuided part vnto heauen and part vnto hell like an indiuiduum vagum or some litle new nothing that hangs in the ayre To be short if man with his good and euill motions together goeth foorthwith either wholy to heauen or wholy to hell how then should his ioyes or his torments be either absolute or endlesse Because looke how fast his good motions doe minister comfort vnto him so fast at the least his euill motions will afflict and torment him Phylologus Surely Pneumatomachus this opinion I see is so absurd and so sottish as euen a sucking babe would blush to be taynted therewith Lycanthropus A sucking babe blush yea it is such a stale ridiculous iest as might make euen a mad man to hide his head in a corner Pneumatomachus Verie true and I also my selfe am now ashamed thereof Notwithstanding how soeuer it is certaine that spirits and Diuels be more then the good or euill motions in men it appeares yet for any thing heard that those your supposed Angels are nothing at all but the sensible tokens or signes of Gods power Orthodoxus What meane you by the sensible tokens or signes of Gods power Pneumatomachus I vnderstand thereby those extraordinarie iudgements of God which demonstrate vnto vs the incomprehensible maiestie and might of his power
you the same by probable reasons Orthodoxus I proue it thus 1. The Angels they are either created or vncreated but not vncreated therefore created They cannot possiblie be vncreated substances for then they should also be infinite Howbeit Angels they are finite creatures for their actions are finite yea and then also their power it is finite But if they be of a finite power then also of a circumscriptible essence Moreouer it shall plainely appeere anon in place conuenient that Angels are finite creatures and definitiuely also in some certeine place which thing can not possible accord to any vncreated essence at all And therefore Angels they are not vncreated substances 2 Secondly I prooue it thus If Angels be vncreated then are they eternall but not eternall therefore not vncreated That they are not eternall it is verie apparant For then should they be such as haue neither beginning nor end of their essence as also their essence or nature it selfe should then be such as hath nothing in it either first or last But this agreeth onely to God himselfe and not to any creature in heauen or in earth And therefore if there be Angels then were they created and if created then created no doubt within the sixe daies as was shewed before And thus much for the proofe of this point by probable reasons Pneumatomachus Well Let vs heare next the testimonie of fathers concerning this Question Orthodoxus Withall my hart Wherein also for breuities sake I will onely but rehearse their names and referre you to the consideration of their seuerall treatises The authors be these Methodius Epiphanius Athanasius Augustine Eucherius Theodoretus and Damascenus All these doe verie confidenly auouch vpon speciall occasions and against the Manicheis the Priscillianists and other such heretikes that the Angels whatsoeuer were the vndoubted workmanship of God howsoeuer their creation is not apparantly layd forth in the sacred Scriptures Yea The Councels of Laterane and Bracha both do ioyntly determine that the Angels are created of God and are not eternall in so much as if any shall hold the contrarie they conclude him accursed of God Thus then you see it apparantly euident by Scripture by reasons and the testimonies also of sundrie fathers that Angels and spirits being finite creatures of God were vndoubtedly created within the sixe daies Pneumatomachus But in what day of those sixe were they created Orthodoxus Touching the verie day it selfe there is some difference in iudgement among the Diuines some hold they were created the first day and some the second But whether of both is not certainely concluded although it may probably be gathered they were in verie deed created the secondday thus That they were created before the third day may plainely be proued by the words of the Lord vnto Iob saying Where wert thou when I layd the foundations of the earth Declare if thou hast vnderstanding Who hath layd the measures thereof if thou knowest Or who hath stretched the line ouer it Where upon are the foundations thereof set Or who laide the corner stone thereof When the starres of the morning praised me and all the sonnes of God reioyced The Lord in that place by the sonnes of God vnderstandeth the Angels and spirits affirming moreouer that euen they also did celebrate his name with praise so soone as he had layd the earthes foundation Now the earth Moses saith was made the third day and therefore if the Angels on that day sang prayses to God it followeth necessarily they were then created before for how should they sing prayses before their creation But it is vnlikely they were the first day created because nothing on that day was created saith Moses but the confused Chaos from whence the rest of the creatures were orderly formed and that primarie light which separated the night from the day If followeth therefore that they were all created the second day together with that celestiall firmament vnder whose name is also contayned that supreme heauen which is called the third heauen paradice or the heauen of the blessed And this thing also is yet more plainely expressed by the words of our Sauiour Christ who saith that the kingdome of heauen was prepared for the elect 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the worlds foundation that is after the Lord vpon the very first day had created the Chaos aforesaid then by and by from out of that Chaos was brought the firmament as Moses affirmeth which the Lord God prepared for all the elect By all this it is euident that Angels and Spirits they are essential creatures of God created also within the six daies and so by consequence your vnanswerable argument is answered you see to the full Pneumatomachus I acknowledge no lesse But sir hauing layd downe the mayne grounds of my errour and answered directly my arguments it remaineth by promise that now likewise you produce your owne reasons to prooue plainely vnto me both spirits and Diuels Orthodoxus Verie true And therefore hauing first remooued the olde rubbish which ouerturned the rule of your reason it commeth now verie fitly in place to shew further vnto you that the Angels of God whether good or euill are truely essentiall and substantiall spirits as may plainely appeere by these following reasons first from their sundry names attributed vnto them thus 1 Names they are the signes and notions of things Which names when they signifie any thing properly subsisting of it selfe then that thing also it selfe is a substance no doubt But the Angels they are set forth by sundry names which do signifie substances For first they be called Angels that is to say messengers but a messenger or a minister appointed cannot but be a subsistance Also they are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is intellectuall powers but that which hath vnderstanding and knowledge is vndoubtedly a substance Briefly they be called Satan that is an aduersarie also Diuels that is accusors also strong armed men also the God of this world the princes and powers of the ayre the gouernours of this world murderers roring lions the dragon the old serpent so forth All which seueral names do vndoubtedly signifie a thing subsisting wherein is a power from whence proceedeth an action and therefore there are essentiall spirits and Diuels 2 Againe if spirits and Diuels were onely but the secret motions and affections of men then vndoubtedly so many famous actions as the Scriptures record and the same also externally to the outward senses could in no wise accord vnto them but the consequent is false for the Scriptures apparantly and without any trope doe celebrate their office and record their sundrie actions namely that they stand before God serue him execute his precepts and iudgements that they doe daily assault tempt torment circumuent and seeke to deuoure vs and so foorth But how should these or any one of these
actions be possibly performed of such as are not in deed true substances 3 Againe things created in them selues and not in an other subiect yea and so as they subsist of them selues alone those things vndoubtly haue a true subsistance But spirits and Diuels they are so created no doubt as they subsist in them selues neither are they inherent or inexistent in any other subiect whatsoeuer and therefore spirits and Diuels they haue vndoubtedly a true subsistance 4 Againe whatsoeuer liuing creature is endued with reason vnderstanding and will that must needs be some thing of it selfe subsisting but spirits and Diuels they are liuing creatures endued with reason vnderstanding and will and therefore somethings no doubt of themselues subsisting 5 Againe nothing can possiblie persist in the truth nor nothing can fall from their first estate vnlesse the same be some essence subsisting of it selfe and pertaker also of vnderstanding and will But some of the Angels doe perseuere in the truth and some againe haue fallen from the same and therefore Angels and spirits are some essences subsisting of themselues and pertakers also of vnderstanding and will 6 Againe if spirits and Diuels were onely but the euill motions and affections arising in men it shoulde be absurde either to distinguish their numbers or to expresse their seuerall actions but the consequent is false as all that feare God will confesse and therefore also the antecedent it selfe 7 Againe whatsoeuer doth speake assault suggest tempt afflict torment and circumuent to deuoure that must necessarilie be a subsistance But spirits and Diuels doe so for they spake to Euah they assaulted Achab and suggested an vntruth into all his prophets they tempted Christ they afflicted and tormented Saul they made Iudas to hang himselfe they seeke to winnowe and fanne men yea to circumuent al the children of God to destruction and therefore spirits and Diuels must necessarilie be some subsistance 8 Againe if Angels and spirits be onely but accidentall affections and no true substances in deed then neither shall we after this life be anie true substances for the scriptures affirme that after the resurrection we shall be like to the Angels in heauen Now then if Angels and spirits be not true substances in deed shall we also cease to be substances 9 Againe Aristotle he prooues this world to be perfect for that it consistes of all those things which can be desired therein or which may in any wise appertain to the perfection thereof Howbeit to the perfection of the whole there is required therein three seuerall sorts of substances the first inuisible the second visible and the third partly inuisible partly visible The second sort namely the visible substances are the heauens the elements and all things made of the elements The third sort namely the substances partly inuisible and partly visible are men who consist of a soule and body togither the soule inuisible and the bodie visible Now then if Angels who are of themselues inuisible should not be substances then should there be wanting to the world inuisible substances and so the worlde should be vnperfect But the world it is perfect as all both Philosophers and Diuines do affirme And therefore Angels they be substances inuisible and spirituall 10 Lastly common experience from the beginning of the world to this present hower hath apparently approued vnto vs that there be Angelicall spirits and Diuels and therefore not to be denied of any vnlesse he will shew himselfe a swinish Saduce or some monkish Anthropomorphite as was shewed before And thus haue you briefly heard my seuerall reasons which prooue vnto you both spirits and Diuels Pneumatomachus Sir by that which you haue spoken I am now throughlie perswaded that Angels are indeed essentiall and spirituall substances Howbeit this one thing doth trouble me greatly namely that seeing all Angels were equally created according to the true image of God no one of them all may truely be said to be euill Orthodoxus You do well in deliuering your doubtes but goe to frame your argument Pneumatomachus I frame it thus A thing created to the image of God cannot be nor may not be said to be euill But all Angels and spirites were in the beginning created all alike to the image of God therefore no Angell or spirite either can be or may be said to be euill Now sir if none of them can or may be said to be euill how should there be any Diuels at all Orthodoxus Verie true as you saie if that which you seeme to conclude were as truely concluded Howbeit I answere thus First concerning your proposition I say That so farre foorth as any thing created to Gods image hath truelie that image keepeth and looseth it not so farre foorth and so long anie such thing may not truely be saide to be euill Now next to your assumption I answere thus All those Angelicall spirits so created of God they did not retaine and holde falt that true image of God wherein they were first created but willingly reiected and fledde from the same And therefore I distinguish thus Angels created in the beginning according to the true image of God did either perseuer in that originall integritie or else they wilfully fell from the same The one sort are finally confirmed in that selfe-same goodnes wherein they were first created and therefore good Angels the other sort loosing their first goodnes are hardened in that selfe-same euill whereinto they first fell and therefore euill Angels So then to imagine that the euill Angels also notwithstanding their euilnes must still shewe foorth that selfe-same image of God from which they fearefully fell is nothing else in effect but to confound the formes of their distinguished kindes For it is one thing to be created good and another thing still to retaine that selfe-same goodnes The one is past the other is present And the vanitie of that childish conceite may be made euident by the like reason thus All men are created in Adam to the image of God But Atheists and vngodly ones are men therefore Atheistes and vngodly ones they shewe foorth the image of God Here is more in the conclusion then was put in the premisses For this onely shoulde folowe namely that Atheistes in as much as they are men were first created according to the image of God but in that they are now falne they do resemble the image of the Diuell Pneumatomachus Sir my iudgement concerning these points is now I praise God so cleerly enlightned as my neighbour Lycanthropus my selfe may wel be at one being both fully resolued I hope in that selfe same controuersie which we held so hotly as we came from Mahgnitton Lycanthropus If you be therein at one with your selfe you are also at one with me For I was resolued before and your selfe now confesfesseth that there are essentiall spirits and diuels Pneumatomachus Yea I doe freely confesse
away my cogitations are violently taken from me I meane morashe lebabi the possessions of my hart That is those happie and comfortable cogitations which my soule in a good conscience by the blessing of God did chalenge to it selfe by a peculiar right or possession In like maner from iarash ariseth the word morashah which signifieth properly such a kinde of possession as people enioy by a certaine peculiar right as appeareth in Deuteronomie where the people say thus Moses commanded vs a law morashah kehillath Iaakob I meane a peculiar inheritance for the congregation of Iaakob That is such an inheritance as shall passe by an hereditarie right or possession among the house of Israel from generation to generation The like vse of this word morashah doth euidently appeare by those seuerall quotations of scripture which we haue purposely put downe in the Margine By all which it is verie apparant that albeit the holy Ghost should haue purposely vsed any one of these Hebrew words to expresse your pretended possession of Diuels yet could you not haue concluded from thence any such an essentiall inherencie of Diuels in the bodies of men as you would beare vs in hand Licanthropus But doth not the Greeke word which the Septuagint vseth to expresse the word iarash import so much Orthodoxus Nothing lesse I assure you For from that word iarash ariseth orizo and orixomai which signifies to bound or determine the territories and possessions of land From thence also is deriued these following nownes namely orion and orismos which signifieth a bondarie a definition or constitution Also this word exorizo that is to exterminate or to disherite Also exorismos which betokenth an exile or banishment From whence also ariseth verie fitly the inheriting or dishinheriting or rather if you please the possessing and dispossessing of heirs The Gretians in like sort they vse another word called cleronomia which signifies properly an inheritance or rule of possessions Briefly albeit the holy Ghost in the new testament hath sundry words to set out the possession of things as appeareth by the places put downe in the Margine yet could no one of them all haue fitted your turne or possibly haue extended it selfe to this your pretended purpose By all the premisses then it is verie apparant that if the holy Ghost had euer determined to establish your supposed essentiall possession of Diuels he wanted not proper and significant wordes to expresse his said purpose Albeit notwithstanding if he had purposely put downe any one of these wordes either Hebrew or Greeke to import a possession vnto vs yet woulde no one of them all in any congruent speech haue euer beene able to auouch that essentiall inherencie of Diuels in the bodies of men which your selfe woulde fondly conclude from our English translation without any warrant at all from the originall text Lycanthropus Though none of the Euangelistes haue precisely put downe in any one of those places no such word at all as may properly expresse the essentiall possession of spirits and Diuels perhaps yet they haue some other word else equiualent therewith in sence Orthodoxus Perhaps no and without al peraduenture they haue not For the very word it selfe which the holie Ghost obserueth in euerie of those your quoted Scriptures is Daemonizoménoi which with all true interpretours both Latine Italian French and English is ordinarily and vsually translated Demoniakes that is men Diuillished I meane actually afflicted tormented or vexed with Diuels But no one of them all did euer translate it thus namely men essentially possessed with Diuels inherently in them Yea this very word Daemonizoménos is not onely so translated but is so also vnderstood of the most iudiciall and soundest Diuines For not any one of them all do vnderstand the same of essentiall possessions but euery of them do take it to signifie onely some such extraordinarie actual affliction vexation or torment as Satan himselfe by the speciall appointment of God doth effectiuely inflict vpon men for a time If you haplie doe call the truth of that which I speake into question let their seuerall writings be exactly considered and then tell me whether any one of them all do vnderstand by Demoniakes any such persons as are essentially possest with a Diuell inherently in them as your selfe very fondly imagine and not such rather as by the extremitie of those their actuall torments are become outragiouslie furious cruell and quite out of order Thus then by all the premisses it is very apparant you see that neither by a proper significant terme nor by any other word else equiualent therewith neither yet by the translations of learned Interpretours or the exquisite iudgement of soundest Diuines you may from those your quoted scriptures in any possible or congruent order vndertake to conclude as you doe the essentiall possession of spirits and Diuels but must necessarilie take them onelie for such Demoniakes or diuellished persons as are actually afflicted tormented or vexed by Satan Lycanthropus Why then shoulde the translatour so presumptuously put downe the word possession if no such thing be apparant in all the originall Orthodoxus That there is no such matter there as your selfe supposeth you haue sufficiently heard before Neither did the translatour himselfe as it seemes intend any such essentiall possessions but onely an actuall vexation by Satan howsoeuer he did to careleslie put downe the word possession as a worde more familiar amongst vs. No surely it is certaine the Euangelist himselfe he neuer entended such essentiall possessions by the word Daemonizoménoi but onely an actuall affliction vexation or torment And therefore the other two Euangelistes Marke and Luke reporting with Mathewe those selfesame stories concerning the aforesaide Demoniakes they vse not the worde possessed at all But those whom Mathewe intituleth Demoniackes Marke termeth a man hauing an vncleane spirite and Luke he saith there mette Christ a man who had a Diuel a long time Making it a matter meerely indifferent and alone in effect to be a Demoniacke and to haue a Diuel or an vncleane spirite as for the word possessed they neuer vse it neither is the same found throughout the originall applyed to Diuels And vndoubtedlie these words possession or possessed being carelesly thrust into the texte hand ouer head by our English translators is not the leaste occasion that the whole world by a common receiued errour from hand to hand hath beene so vniuersallie possessed with manie grosse errours concerning the Diuel his supposed possession in man Moreouer whereas you boldely affirme that the Euangelist Mathew in euery place els where like occasion is offered doth vsuallie obserue the selfesame phrase that is not so For speaking of the woman of Canaans Demoniacke daughter he saith not haue mercy on me for my daughter is pitifully possessed but my daughter is miserably vexed with a Diuel Exorcistes What then I pray you doth your selfe vnderstand by the Diuel his power of possession Orthodoxus By
by nature reiecting al maner of compulsion although yet by perswading and alluring they may after a sort be saied to encline and to moue the mind Now then this their enclining you see it consists not in anie essentiall possession but onely in an effectuall operation whereof we wil discourse to the ful when we come to entreate of actual possession In the meane time do now cease for shame to auouch any longer the mental possession of diuels Lycanthropus Wel sir howsoeuer you denie the mental possession of diuels I doubt not but they may haue a corporall possession in men Orthodoxus This point will require a large discourse And therefore let vs here giue ouer a time till after our supper and then if you please we will conferre thereof for an hower or two Physiologus Your motion is good and we willingly yeeld Orthodoxus Then let vs in Gods name arise and depart to my house to a schollers repast Philologus The Lord be blessed for that which he sends Lycanthropus We will willingly attend vpon you The end of the second Dialogue The third Dialogue THE ARGVMENT Whether Spirits and Diuels do essentially enter into the possessed mans bodie And whether for that purpose they haue peculiar to themselues true naturall bodies The speakers names PHILOLOGVS LYCANTHROPVS PNEVMATOM'ACHVS PHYSIOLOGVS ORTHODOXVS EXORCISTES Orthodoxus HAuing seated our selues in order I would very willingly know what it is that Lycanthropus requireth-concerning the corporall possession of diuels Physiologus Good sir he is old enough to expresse his owne minde let him therefore speake for himselfe Lycanthropus Yea sir I am of age I hope to tell my owne tale howsoeuer I meane not to make you my Proctor Physiologus If you would I were like to speake verie sparingly in so badde a cause vnlesse you could haply corrupt my conscience with a left-handed bribe Lycanthropus Howsoeuer your selfe may haply stand in some neede of a proctorly bribe my cause it standes in no neede of bribe-pursing Proctor Orthodoxus I like not these girding quippes for howsoeuer they demonstrate some sharpenesse of witte they argue much want of a charitable patience Besides that they are nothing to the purpose we come for and therefore good Lycanthropus goe directly to worke and tell me what you desire to know concerning the corporall possession of spirits and diuels Lycanthropus My desire is to know whether spirits and diuels do essentially enter into the bodies of men Orthodoxus For answere hereunto it shall not be greatly amisse first to shew what the corporall possession of diuels is supposed to be and then next to declare mine owne opinion concerning that point Lycanthropus What I pray you is the corporall possession Orthodoxus It is that whereby the diuell is supposed of some euen really and essentially to enter into and substantially and inherently to dwell in the possessed mans bodie during the whole terme of that his tyrannicall dominion ouer the man whom he so really and personally possesseth Lycanthropus This supposed possession of diuels I suppose is vndoubtedly sound but what is your owne opinion cōcerning this point Orthodoxus My opinion is this namely that the diuels neuer had anie such reall possession in men but onely an actuall possession Lycanthropus Conclude you then that the diuels haue in men no corporall possession at all Orthodoxus If by corporall possession you doe meane that the diuels essentially enter into and inherently dwel in the possessed mans bodie I see then no reason at all but that I may boldly conclude it Neither do I perceiue how your selfe should euer be able to contradict the infallible truth thereof For verie certeine I am that no such essentiall possession is any where extant in all the Bible Lycanthropus Oh yes sir in euery place of the Bible almost especially there where those matters are handled it is said the diuels entred into them that they enter in and dwell there that Christ charged the diuell to come out of the childe and to enter no more into him and so foorth All which places doe plainly demonstrate that the diuels haue really a corporall possession in men at the least Orthodoxus I see no such matter demonstrated frō any of those places Lycanthropus No doe What I pray you can be more plaine then this come out and enter no more into him Is there not a most plaine opposition betweene entring into and going out from And are not the words in the originall and enter no more into him What can be more plaine I beseech you Orthodoxus That there is an apparant opposition betweene entring into and going out from I freely confesse the words also in the originall I plainely approoue although yet I graunt from thence no reall possession Else how vnderstand you this place in the Apocalypse where the Lord saith and I will enter in vnto him What now because the holy Ghost there vseth the verie selfesame word of entring into must we therefore thus grossely imagine that the Lord God he also essentially entreth into the harts of so many as open vnto him by faith and repentance that were too too absurde Also where it is said that after Iudas receiued the soppe then Satan entred into him Albeit the verie selfesame word of entring into be vsed here also yet may we at no hand conclude that therefore the diuell had in him an essential possession no for the holy Ghost else where doth otherwaies expound himselfe saying that the diuel had now darted or thrust into Iudas his hart to betray his maister Making the entring of the diuell into Iudas his hart to be nothing else but a suggesting or thrusting of the entended treason into him as was shewed before Whereupon it is verie apparant you see that this going out and this entring in of the diuel may not so grossely be vnderstood of any real or substantiall possession but onely of an effectual and powerful operation Lycanthropus Nay sir by your patience there is more to be vnderstoode therein then onely an effectual operation For the Euangelist saith thus and entring in they do dwel there Now then dwelling in a place you know it doth not onely presuppose an essentiall entrance into that selfesame place but concludeth withall a real possession there where the partie possessing doth really inhabite Orthododoxus Howsoeuer you insist vpon the bare words of entring and dwelling yet no real possession but onely an effectual operation must be vnderstood thereby Otherwaies what thinke you of this place where our Sauiour saith If any man loue me he wil keepe my word and my father wil loue him and we wil come vnto him and dwel with him Now then to vse your owne reason dwelling in a place you know it doth not onely presuppose an essential entrance into that selfesame place but concludeth withall a real possession there where the partie possessing doth really inhabite And so by consequence if we strictly tye our selues vnto words
then the father and the sonne both do really and essentially inhabite in the harts of so many as obserue the word which how absurd it is to auouch your selfe may consider Besides that if you so strictly doe tye your selfe to the obseruation of words how vnderstand you this scripture The good Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul and an euil Spirit of the Lord came vpon him Would you haue vs to imagine fromhence that king Saul himselfe was really possest with an euill spirit or a diuel Lycanthropus Yea what other thing else Orthodoxus Then may we by the same reason conclude that Saul also before that time was really possest with the good spirit of God For when Samuel annointed him king it was said in like sort that the spirit of the Lord should come vpon him Againe that the spirit of the Lord it came vpon Saul Yea then may we likewise conclude that Dauid also himselfe he was really possest with the good spirit of God for it is said that after Dauid was annointed the spirit of the Lord came vpon him Now then tell me I pray you whether you thinke that Saul and Dauid were really possest with the good spirit of God and that the spirit did essentially enter into them Lycanthropus I vnderstand it euen so I assure you Orthodoxus Why man besides the absurditie arising thence the verie letter it selfe importeth a quite contrarie sence to that which you seeme to insert For the wordes of the text are not thus the spirit of the Lord entred into them but the spirit of the Lord came vpon them both Howbeit whether it had beene the spirit of the Lord entred into them or came vpon them it is al one in effect and may in no wise be vnderstood of anie essential possession but of an effectual operation of that spirit of God whether good or euil For in euerie of those places the word in the original is tsalac Which Ierome translates leaped vpon them Lyra he hath entred forciblie vpon them Pagnine he hath rested vpon them Tremellius he hath rushing vpon them Montanus he hath prospered vpon them None of al these howsoeuer they differ in termes they dreame not you see of anie real possession at al. Yea and the word tsalac also it selfe if we respect the natiue signification is properlie to be translated thus The spirit of the Lord preuailed had prosperous successe did happelie proceede or prospered greatlie in Saul and in Dauid al which hath relation to the efficacie and not to the essence of the spirit at all Otherwise if notwithstanding al this your selfe wil needes vnderstand in that place an essential entrance or real possession the grosse absurditie thereof may more plainlie appeare by the conference of this one with some other places of scripture where the selfesame word is also in vse As first where Eleazar saith vnto Laban hinder you me not sith the Lord bath prospered my iourney Would you expound it thus hinder me not sith the Lord hath caused my iorney verie really and essentially to enter into me Againe where it is said that whatsoeuer the godlie man doth it shall prosper Should we translate it thus the godly mens waies shal substantiallie enter into him Againe where the holie ghost saith vnto Salomon prosper thou with thy glorie Should we expound it thus let thy glorie substantiallie and reallie possesse thy person Briefly where Ieremie complaineth thus why doe the waies of the wicked prosper must we imagine that the waies of the wicked doe enter essentiallie into their bodies and soules that were to to absurd And yet in such a strict tying of our selues to the word we may by as good reason enterprete these places thus as those other of Saul and of Dauid the holie ghost vsing especially in euery of them al but one and the selfesame word Exorcistes If the scriptures be so intricate concerning these pointes what waies were we best to take for the vnderstanding of them aright Orthodoxus You must not be haled hedlong an end with an inueterate opinion receiued hand ouer head from hand to hand without further search or due trial of the trueth of the matter but must verie hartelie pray and most conscionablie depend vpon the holie spirit of God for a true vnderstanding and wisedome herein For seeing the proper nature of spirites and diuels is not in the sacred scriptures so exactly so plainely set downe as that thereby we may certeinly know them euen as they are in their proper and essential being we must therefore most humbly endeuour our selues very faithfully to imbrace and constantlie to beleeue the true sence of the scriptures concerning these points yea euen in such simple sort as the holy spirit of God who is the Lord of all spirites hath set downe the same Alwaies remembring this that spirites and diuels they are in the scriptures euermore spoken of as of spiritual substances howsoeuer for the onelie helpe of our slender capacities they be sometimes more groslie expressed by parables and metaphors and in a more sensible or corporal manner then otherwaies they are in themselues And therefore whereas it is said that the spirit of the Lord came vpon Balaam Othoniel Gedeon Iphthah Sampson Saul Dauid Azariah Ezechiel and others Moreouer where it is said that the Lord seperated the spirite of Moses and put in vpon the seuentie Elders againe that the spirit of Eliah was double vpon Elisha that Caleb had a spirit farre differing from the rest of the Israelites and that Daniel he had a more excellent spirite then al the rest yet that selfesame entrance into that resting vpon that multiplying that doubling and that excellencie of the spirit is not to be vnderstood of any real or essential possession but of an effectual and powerful operation of that selfesame spirit concerning the speciall worke for which it was sent So as although the spirites of the Lord whether good or euil are said to be giuen by proportion and nomber yet not the substance or quantitie but the condicion or qualitie of the spirit it selfe must be alwaies presupposed and ment thereby which is a point that I would haue you especially to consider throughout our whole conference concerning spirites and diuels Lycanthropus This I confesse is a verie good caution concerning the condition qualitie and operation of spirits Howbeit for any thing hetherto heard I can at no hand be perswaded but that the diuell albeit mans minde be free doth really and essentiallie enter into the possessed mans bodie Physiologus Goe to imagine that this your supposall were euerie waie sound and then do tell me withall what the diuell doth in the possessed mans bodie Lycanthropus What doth he there verie vntowardly I warrant you for euen in that selfesame bodie and by the helpe of that body he doth effectually accomplish and execute those
their coniecturall opinion Howbeit for a further declaration heereof I do answer with Gregorie Beda Damascene the Schoolemen and others who doe all iointly affirme that euen as the knowledge of spirits and diuels in comparison of our knowledge is verie excellent and woonderfull large although yet in comparison of God the same is but shallow and shorte so surely those the supposed bodies of spirites and diuels in comparison of our earthly and palpable bodies may fitlie be saide to be spirituall whereas yet in comparison of the omnisufficient and incircumscriptible spirit of spirites they may after a sort be saide to be corporall And this our censure concerning corporall spirites being rightly vnderstood as it ought to be that is being graunted comparatiuely may very well stande with the truth For certeine it is that Angels are not spirites purely simple as God is most simple neither are they infinite and incircumscriptible spirits as God alone is but are marshalled within their proper dimensions and bounds All which being graunted it doth not thereupon necessarily folow that therefore Angels they are not created incorporall finite spirits and such as after their manner are limitted definitiuely within their proper dimensions but this rather folowes thereof namely that therefore spirits and diuels they are not most simple most infinite illocal nor omnipotent powers For the specialls do alwaies retaine the common nature of their generall and therein they fitly accord howsoeuer by reason of some repugnant formes they doe otherwaies dissent among themselues And thus your Fathers you see both old and new they are fully answered concerning their supposed mannaging of this your opinion of corporal spirits or diuels Philologus Are you able Lycanthropus to reply to his answere Lycanthropus I am vtterly vnable But sir sith you so confidently do hold that spirits and diuels are incorporall let vs heare your reasons and authorities concerning this point Orthodoxus With very good will my reasons are these First spirits and diuels haue not flesh and bones saith Christ as you see me to haue Wherein it is very apparant that there is one substance of humane bodies and another of spiritual powers Spirits they haue neither flesh nor bones therefore they cannot be comprehended with the sight of the eie nor handled by the sense of feeling both which are proper to the sensible perceiuing of humane bodies Againe the Lord saith the Apostle hath made his spirits his messengers and his ministers a flame of fier The which place albeit Dauid doth properly vnderstand of the operation of winds yet for as much as the Apostle applieth the same to the Angels it is not to be doubted at all but as the name Spirit so likewise a spirituall essence appertaineth vnto them Againe we read that a legion of diuels namely sixe thousand sixe hundred sixtie and sixe possessed the man in the Gospell whom Christ deliuered But if diuels be corporall substances and doe essentially enter into the bodie of man it is vtterly impossible that there should so many be crouded together and all contained at once within the narrow corners of an humane bodie Exorcistes Some doe hold there was in deed but one onely diuell in the possessed whose name was Legion Orthodoxus As though it were possible that one onely diuell could be really inherent in two seuerall persons at once Besides that it is verie apparant in Marke and in Luke that there was not one but many diuels yea and Mathew also exchanging the name of one into many he saith the diuels besought Christ that they might goe into the heard of swine Exorcistes Sir I onely haue shewed you what some others doe hold but proceed in your purpose Orthodoxus I proceed thus The spirits or soules of men are incorporall therefore spirits and diuels are also incorporall For if the reasonable soule or spirit of a man be not corporall in any respect I meane if it be neither solide nor palpable as are the earthie and terrestriall bodies neither yet subtile or slender as are the airie and celestiall bodies then without doubt spirits and diuels they are likewise incorporall because they also are spirits For the nature and definitions of a spirit and a bodie do altogither and in euery respect differ betweene themselues And thus besides those Philosophicall reasons which Physiologus propounded before you haue hetherto heard from the Scriptures such seuerall arguments as doe verie plainely conclude the non being of corporall spirites or diuels Pneumatomachus Beleeue me Lycanthropus before we began this our conference I doubted greatly of the essentiall being of spirits and diuels Howbeit now I am cleere in that point and by this discourse doe farther perceiue them to be admirable and woonderfull powers Lycanthropus Verie true as you saie But sir let vs heare I beseech you your authorities also concerning this point Orthodoxus With verie good will Wherein I assure you that this our opinion concerning incorporall spirits and diuels is generallie receiued in the church of God approoued by the consent of many Diuines and confirmed fully from the Laterane Councel Lycanthropus For the generall receite thereof in the Church I make little doubt but let vs heare now your seuerall authorities Orthodoxus Content First Dionysius writeth thus Wee account not saith he the celestiall and deified powers or spirits to consist of innumerable feete or to haue a manifold countenance neither yet to be like vnto liuing and corporall creatures albeit the sacred Scriptures in speaking of them doe vse these Poeticall and fained formes Chrysostome he saith the Seraphimes are called spirits that is incorporall and supernaturall powers And a little after he saith they be called fierie or flaming creatures because their substance is most pure Augustine be defineth them thus Angels and diuels are spirituall powers incorporall substances inuisible insensible reasonable intellectuall and immortall the good ones they are shining and impassible the euill ones blacke and passible Theodoret he saith that God created the vniuersall nature of incorporall substances constituting decreeing and ordeining their said nature to be intellectuall and also immortall Andreas of Ierusalem he saith that Angels and spirites are all without their bodies Gregorie also he saith in like sort that spirits and diuels they haue no flesh Isidore he saith that Angels and diuels according to their nature are called spirits Damascene he saith that Angels and spirits are intellectuall substances euermore mooueable and free by the arbiterment of their proper power incorporall the ministers of God obtaining immortalitie by grace not by nature the portraiture bounds of whose substantiall being onely the creatour of spirites he knoweth himselfe Carolus magnus he saith the essentiall substance of Angels and diuels is immortall because they be spirits by nature Vigerius Saonensis he saith that Angels are all of them spirituall substances without any bodies at all consisting of vnderstanding and will and
therefore they are euerie of them called Angels as it were by a Christian name Culmannus he saith that Angels are not corporall but spiritual substances because they be spirits For a spirit is not a substance consicting of elements or hauing flesh and bones in which onely respect the Scriptures do call them ministring spirits Briefly Bernard he saith the verie wals are vnable to withstand the Angelicall spirits but that all bodies how solide or palpable soeuer they are vnto them verie penetrable Loe heere we haue summoned a grand-Iurie of ancient Fathers who haue all with one generall consent giuen vp their verdit concerning the non being of corporall spirites and diuels Go to therefore Lycanthropus what say you them Lycanthropus I saie they are all good men and true Orthodoxus Waell then I hope you will yeeld this question namely that spirites and diuels they haue not materiall bodies peculiar to their essentiall being but are altogither simple and incorporall substances and that therefore their essentiall being in men if the same should be granted can neuer be perceiued by corporall sense and so by consequence no corporall possession at all Lycanthropus I yeeld no such matter vnto you Orthodoxus Why man it was the determination of that grand-Iurie of Fathers whom you acknowledge for good men and true Whereupon their verdit was foorthwith authentically recorded and may not now by any orderly course be reuersed Lycanthropus It may be they were to inconsiderate and rash in giuing their verdite and therefore let vs heare your Laterane Councell concerning this matter in question Orthodoxus What man must the credit of a grand-Iurie of Catholike Fathers be made to depend vpon the approbation of a generall Councell Well then the Laterane Councell doth flatly confirme that Angels or spirits they are incorporall created of God and were not eternall before al beginnings but created onely in time By all the premisses then you may plainly perceiue by swaie of argument by plaine euidence of Scripture by authoritie of Fathers yea and by the whole consent of a generall Councell that spirits and diuels are incorporall substances and that therefore if diuels doe essentially enter into the bodies of men as your selfe do fondly imagine they enter not so by any bodies of their owne because they haue no bodies at all Lycanthropus Whether diuels haue bodies or no bodies it makes no great matter verie certaine I am they haue a reall possession in men and I prooue it thus Spirites and diuels they can essentially assume to themselues true naturall bodies therefore they can essentially enter into the possessed mans bodie Orthodoxus Are you fledde on the sodaine from the diuell his reall possessing of bodies to his essentiall assuming of bodies Can you find no fast footing to setle your selfe vpon that you thus plodde hether and thither from point to point as a man fearefully distracted or suddenly fallen in a maze Lycanthropus Yes sir I haue fast footing I warrant you for whatsoeuer I hold although yet now I rather desire to heare what you are able to say concerning the diuell his essentiall assuming of true naturall bodies Orthodoxus Well then I perceiue your store is not great being thus constrained to spend on the stocke Howbeit because this matter wil craue a longer discourse then the present time will affoord let vs therefore goe take our naturall rest and meet here againe betimes in the morning to discourse this point to the full Physiologus Your motion is good for vs all Philologus Very true as you say And therefore we three wil repaire to our Innes to take our rest and meete you God willing to morrow by six of the clocke Orthodoxus Wel then let vs forthwith arise and depart The end of the third Dialogue The fourth Dialogue THE ARGVMENT Whether Spirits and Diuels can assume to themselues true naturall bodies What bodies they are said to assume and how those Scriptures are to be vnderstood which be for this purpose produced The speakers names PHILOLOGVS LYCANTHROPVS PNEVMATOMACHVS PHYSIOLOGVS ORTHODOXVS EXORCISTES Philologus LYcanthropus I haue this night in my sleepe beene so strangely troubled about thy last argument as if thou take heed to thy selfe I verily beleeue thou wilt giue them the foile Lycanthropus I am so perswaded my selfe howbeit if I be conquered therein I haue another in store that will trouble them more then that by a thousand fold Pneumatomachus Make much of your arguments against the intended skirmish and all little enough for you are to encounter with sharpe sighted aduersaries Lycanthropus Be as sharpe as they will they shall be sure to receiue as hot as they bring But behold where they come Orthodoxus What sirs God giue you good morrow You haue preuented our purpose which was to haue perused an author or twaine before your comming Howbeit sith you are all so readie Goe to Lycanthropus propound your argument to vs. Lycanthropus I propound it thus Spirits and Diuels they can essentially assume to themselues true naturall bodies therefore they can essentially enter into the possessed mans bodie Physiologus We haue hetherto denied and your selfe was vnable to prooue any reall or substantiall possession at all and would you now thus cunningly insinuate some essentiall entrance of diuels vnder the pretence of assumed bodies Which assuming of bodies if it should be denied would perhaps be as hard to prooue as any the points before Philologus What sir would you beare vs in hand it were hard to prooue that the diuell can assume to himselfe a bodie That was neuer yet doubted of any and dare your selfe vndertake to denie the same Physiologus I vndertake no absolute deniall thereof but onely do here make it a Question Howbeit sith your selues are so resolute concerning this point doe tell me what bodie the diuell doth assume to himselfe Whether a true naturall or phantasticall bodie Pneumatomachus Surely a true natural bodie or none at all Physiologus If a true naturall bodie then tell me further whether it be a bodie created before or to be newly created Lycanthropus It is a bodie created before Physiologus If you hold it a bodie created before then tell me yet further whether you take it to be a liuing or dead mans bodie Exorcistes I take it to be some liuing mans bodie if any at all else how should it possibly serue the diuels purpose Physiologus I woonder you should so grossely imagine an impossible matter For where hath the diuell receiued power from the Lord to dispossesse liuing soules of their organicall bodies And what must become of that liuing mans soule all the while the diuell assumeth his bodie it selfe to serue his mischieuous purpose Moreouer it is verie absurde to suppose that the diuell can possibly assume to himselfe any liuing mans bodie Because the Lord hath so vnchangeably established such an inseperable vnion betweene the soule and bodie of a liuing man as vnlesse the bodie and soule be substantially vnited
it is not woorth a rush Beleeue me I wot not what to say in the matter Lycanthropus Neither do I my selfe I assure thee Orthodoxus Well then hauing answered your arguments concerning the diuell his essentiall assuming of bodies Let vs now heare your seuerall authorities if you haue any Lycanthropus I haue authorities some Howbeit either such as are answered before or such as doe but barely propound without any proofe or such at the least as your selfe by your subtile newe coined distinction of essentially and effectiuely will easily shift ouer And therefore I had as leaue they lay still as rise vp and fall Orthodoxus Let them rise vp or lie still at your pleasure for me Howbeit to the end your selfe and the rest do not vniustlie surmize that I seeke to shift ouer your forces by subtile distinctions yea and those also such as I haue newly coined my selfe I am therefore verie well willing the maister of sentences determine this point if it please you to heare him and so may you see the distinction is not new but renued Exorcistes You shall doe vs all a very great fauour therein Orthodoxus Marke then and you shall heare him at large This also saith he is woorthie due consideration namely Whether spirites and Diuels corporal or incorporal doe substantially enter into the bodies of men and essentially slip into their mindes or whether only they are therefore said to enter into men for that by the permission of God they doe exercise in them the force and effect of their malice by oppressing and vexing them or by haling them headlong into sinne at their pleasures That they enter into men and being expelled perforce goe out of them againe the Gospel doth plainly declare affirming that Diuels being entred into some were cast forth by our Sauiour Christ. Howbeit whether they entred into them substantially or rather were said to be in them effectiuely there lieth the point and the same is not yet apparant vnto vs. Gennadius entreating hereof saith thus We beleeue not that the Diuels by an effectual operation doe substantially or essentially enter into the minde but rather by an effectual application and by a violent oppression are neerely vnited vnto them For essentially to slip into the mind is onely possible for him who alone created the minde who subsisting of his owne nature and being also incorporal is capable alone of his creature Loe hereby saith he is insinuated vnto vs that serpents and Diuels doe not essentially slip or enter into the mindes of men Beda in like manner vpon that in the Actes where Peter said to Ananias why hath Satan filled thy hart writeth thus It would be throughly considered that nothing can replenish or fill vp the minde of a man substantially saue only the creating Trinitie who according to the operation and instinct of his owne will doth alone replenish and satisfie the minde with all things created Howbeit Satan also he filleth the hart of a man not by entring substantially into the man or into any his senses neither yet by insinuating himselfe essentially into his hart for that power if any such be appertaineth only to God but by craftie and fraudulent guile he draweth the minde through a malitious effect and by his sugred charmes into a whirlepoole of euils and by that meanes he filleth the hart Thus farre he Wherein you may plainly perceiue that this Distinction was not newly coyned by me but concluded of old and that also I auouch no more in this matter then others haue affirmed before me Philologus Beleeue me sir this iumpeth in euery respect so patte with your proper opinion as a man might iustly imagine the one had begotten the other But are there any moe of this mind Orthodoxus Yea Chrysostome he saith the Diuel compelleth not by force nor essentially toucheth any but saith only cast downe thy selfe backward For suggest he may but compell he cannot And therefore saith Lyra the Diuel he is called a deafe and a dumbe spirit not formally but effectiuely in that by a powerfull operation he maketh men deafe and dumbe For Torment or vengeance saith Musculus is only in Gods hand and not in the hand of the Diuel The Diuel hath in deede a ministerie but no arbitrarie power Now then the ministerie it consists not of an absolute auctoritie but of a subiected seruitude And albeit saith Gregorie the depraued will of Satan be euer vniust yet his deputed power is neuer vniust because although he hath a will of himselfe yet hath he his power onely from God And therefore whatsoeuer he desireth to worke vniustly that if at any time he effect it God permitteth most iustly So then the Diuel ought neuer to be vniustly feared because he is vnable any further to deale then he himselfe is permitted Briefly Hermes Trismegistus very confidently auoucheth that an humane soule cannot receiue any other then an humane bodie neither yet can it light into a bodie that wanteth reason of minde From whence we may argue thus If an humane soule be capable only of an humane bodie then also an humane bodie is capable only of an humane soule and so by consequence vncapable of an essentiall Diuel but the first is true by Trismegistus his iudgement and therefore also the latter And in very deed seeing Satans assaults are spirituall why should we imagine saith Skot that the Diuel who is a spirit and therefore inuisible and insensible can be sensibly seene knowen perceiued or felt essentially of a naturall man Or that he should contrarie to his nature become corporal being by Gods appointment ordeined and created to a spirituall proportion They that doe thus vnderstand things spoken of the Diuel according onely to the literal sense they may as well conclude that trees in times past did call a parlament speake one to another and choose them a king by mutuall consent Thus then these and many others you see doe iointly conclude concerning this point Physiologus These are sufficient to satisfie such as are not wilfully wedded to their willes Pneumatomachus Surely for my owne part I rest fully â—atisfied Philologus And for my part also I am quite out of doubt But Lycanthropus you told Pneumatomachus me in the beginning of this our present discourse that if this argument taken from the diuel his assuming of bodies would not suffice to proue an essentiall possession of diuels you had another in store that would trouble Maister Orthodoxus more then this doth by a thousand fold It were good you propounded the same Orthodoxus Very true And therefore if you imagine you haue something in store which may make more for your purpose propound it and spare not Lycanthropus This then it is Spirits and diuels they can essentially transforme themselues into any true naturall body and therefore they can also essentially enter into the possessed mans body Orthodoxus What are you fled on the suddaine from
assuming of bodies to the transforming of bodies your store then I perceiue is not great and it seemes you are almost drawen dry Howbeit because the handling of this point will craue a large discourse Let vs therefore breake off for the present And hauing with some small pittance refreshed our selues then wil we conferre hereof to the full til dinner be readie if you like of the offer Pneumatomachus Sir we like whatsoeuer you feele best for your selfe and therefore respect your owne health and we three in the meane time will repaire to our Innes and after will meet you afresh Orthodoxus Nay surely as we haue iointly ioyned together in spirituall repast so will we not sunder our selues in our corporall sustenance all the while our controuersie continueth And therefore if you doe like the thinne diet of schollers let vs in Gods name goe all together Philologus It is much to troublesome vnto you and chargeable both but sith you wil haue it so we will all iontly attend on your person Orthodoxus Let vs then arise and depart The end of the fourth Dialogue The fifth Dialogue THE ARGVMENT Whether Spirits and Diuels can essentially transforme themselues into any true naturall bodie And how those places of Scripture are to be taken which manie produce for that purpose The speakers names PHILOLOGVS LYCANTHROPVS PNEVMATOMACHVS PHYSIOLOGVS ORTHODOXVS EXORCISTES Orthodoxus SIth nature by the good blessing of God is something refreshed let vs now for a while keepe close in my parlour with ful purpose to proceede in our conference till dinner be ready and then after walke forth in the aire to recreate our spirits Physiologus With very good will and therefore linger not the time but go an end in your purpose Orthodoxus Goe to then Lycanthropus repeate your argument Lycanthropus I repeate it thus Spirits and diuels they can essentially transforme themselues into any true naturall body therefore they can also essentially enter into the possessed mans body Orthodoxus Proue your antecedent Lycanthropus What sir do you flatly denie that the diuell can essentially transforme himselfe into what bodie he please I am fully resolued to hold this point whatsoeuer be said to the contrarie Orthodoxus Your vnreasonable resolution is vnto vs no reasonable conclusion neither is the question betweene vs what you wil hold but what you are able to prooue concerning this point And albeit I doubt nothing at al but that you for your owne part will hold verie much till it comes to the pinch yet we hope you will change your purpose if once you be made to perceiue that none but your selfe are of this opinion Lycanthropus Yes sir all the world I am sure iumpes pat with me in this point and verie certeine I am I shall gaine your consent to the same in the end Orthodoxus Howsoeuer you seeme confident in the common consent of the world your gaine I assure you is not like to be great by any such a supposed grant as you haplie imagine from me Lycanthropus Will you not grant that diuels may essentially transforme themselues into what bodies they please Physiologus Master Orthodoxus let me answere this point if you please Come on Lycanthropus what is the thing you would haue granted vnto you Lycanthropus Why this namely that diuels may essentially transforme themselues into a true naturall bodie Physiologus Such a grant we may yeeld you at no hand because euen Philosophie her selfe is flat opposite to it who will neuer admit any such a confused participation of essentiall formes For as essence it selfe is impartible and vndeuidable or rather a certaine incommunicable and singular matter so surely the essence and vnitie of things being preserued intier essentiall formes they cannot possiblie be cnumōicated transferred or passed ouer from that substance it selfe whereof they are formes into any other substance or matter to giue the same also an essentiall forme Because not onely the constituting forming or framing but euen also the destruction of substances doth essentially arise from the forme it selfe And looke whereunto there is giuen a forme conuenient and proportionable to one onely essence thereunto also must necessarily be giuen an vndoubted true essence Because a proper forme is the principall part of essence yea and as some learned Philosophers doe flatly affirme it is the whole essence or nature of the thing it selfe And therefore if spirits and diuels be at any time essentially transformed into men then do they foorthwith cease for that time to be spirits and diuels and may truely be said to be men Lycanthropus I doe not well conceiue your meaning Physiologus I will further explaine it thus If there be any such essentiall transforming of spirits and diuels into men as your selfe doth imagine then vndoubtedly that selfe same essentiall transformation it is either according to the body alone or according to the body and soule together If according to the body alone then that selfe same transformed body it should at one and the selfe same time become both the body of a man and the body of a diuell which were to to absurde to imagine If according to the body and soule together then either the whole man both body soule must be essentially transformed into the very essence and nature of a diuell or the diuell he must needes be essentially transformed into the very naturall body and soule of a man at the least which none but mad-men will euer affirme Againe if that essentiall transformation be effected according to the body alone then howsoeuer that selfe same body be not for the present the body of a man but is wholy transformed into the very essence and nature of a diuell yet the soule of that man must either be forced to forsake his owne body and so bring present death to the body it selfe because death is nothing else but the dissolution of soule and bodie or else the same soule it must necessarily passe from out of it owne body into the very essence of a diuell and so by consequence there must needes be a meere confusion of spirituall substances or two essentiall formes in one and the selfe same body at once which were absurde to auouch and vtterly impossible by any created power to be euer effected Lycanthropus Let Phylosophie be opposite or what she will very certaine I am the diuell can essentially transforme him selfe into any true naturall body Physiologus What man will you in deed oppose your selfe to true Phylosophie then I perceiue you respect not at all the operations and powers of nature But goe to let master Orthodoxus heare what one reason you haue in true diuinitie to mannage your said resolution Lycanthropus What one reason quoth you why man the diuell he can essentially transforme him selfe into an Angell of light therefore how much more into any true naturall body Orthodoxus You are mightily mis-led herein by mistaking the word metaschemarizetai That is to say he transmuted transfashioned
man and euery liuing thing with their proper nature substance forme constitution qualities and gifts and directeth their wils faculties and powers accordingly so hath he alotted to spirituall creatures their owne substance and properties seuerall alone to themselues and appointed them their lawes and limits beyond which they cannot possiblie passe the bredth of an haire And therefore as it is absolutely against the ordinance of God that I should flie like a bird or swim like a fish or creepe like a worme or become another creature in forme to that which by nature I am insomuch as if God would giue me leaue I could not possiblie do it for it were flat contrarie to his owne ordinance and decree yea and euen opposite to the naturall constitution of that bodie which he hath created and giuen me so is it vndoubtedly incredible that either a diuell should be essentially transformed into a man or a man substantially turned into a diuell or that either of both should reallie change themselues into any other nature substance forme constitution qualitie or gift then those verie same which they haue by creation yea or that they should possiblie applie those which they haue to any other end or vse then that which God himselfe naturally decreed and directeth them vnto Otherwise either God should be contrarie to himselfe which is farre from him or else those things must needs be supernaturall and so a true miracle in whom soeuer Neither yet is Gods omnipotencie hereby qualified but the diuell his impotencie is rather manifested and more liuely declared Who hath no further power then that which God from the beginning hath appointed vnto him and the same also consonant to his owne nature and substance The diuell I confesse may well be restrained from his naturall faculties power and will but being Gods minister beyond the same he cannot possiblie passe the bredth of a pinne neither yet any other waies or further imploie his endeuour then onely in that verie worke which the Lord from the beginning hath enabled him to do Which is that he being himselfe a spirit may vitiate and corrupt the spirit of man and therein also he is diligent enough howbeit for the doing heereof he cannot substantially alter his forme at all Philologus I haue heard many very confidently affirme that the diuell hath appeared to them in the likenes of a man a cocke a catte or a dogge Orthodoxus Yea but how are those confident affirmers certeinly sure that the man the cocke the catte or the dogge whose likenesse they sawe in appearance was indeed and in truth either spirit or diuell and not rather the Legerdemaine of some coniuring Priest or cousening companion For if a diuell can indeed essentially transforme himselfe into the likenes figure or shape of a man a dogge a catte a mouse or a toade whie can he not also transforme a man a dogge a catte a mouse or a toade into the likenes figure or shape of a diuell sith there is a like reason and possibilitie of both Howbeit we may not beleeue saith Augustine that a mans bodie can by any Arte or power of the diuell be transformed into the lineaments of a beast much lesse into the forme or substance of any infernall diuell Besides that if spirits and diuels may possiblie transforme themselues into an humane bodie then could not Christ his argument propounded to Thomas be currant good where he saith behold my hands and side and put thy finger into my hands and thrust thy hand into my side and be not faithlesse but faithfull All this how truely soeuer deliuered by Christ could neuer in truth haue satisfied Thomas concerning the resurrection of Christ if it be true in deed that diuels can truely transforme themselues into true naturall bodies For Thomas remayning vnsatisfied might boldly haue answered thus oh sir why doe you will me to handle your hands and sides that is no certeine argument to demonstrate vnto me your rising againe from the dead Because spirits and diuels you know they can truely transforme themselues into true naturall bodies and therefore notwithstanding such an experimentall or sensible knowledge you may rather be some transformed spirit or ghost to deceiue me then my Lord and my God which came for to saue me Thus then you see that if these essentiall transformations be concluded for currāt Thomas his incredulity for any thing heard might passe vncontroled Exorcistes Though the diuell cannot alter his forme substantially yet may he change the same in shape or figure I doubt not and such a distinction hath Bodin saying The essentiall forme namely reason it selfe is not changed but onely the outward shape or figure Orthodoxus Bodin he strikes it dead no doubt For here he maketh the diuell a cunning iugler who by casting a miste before mens eies can giue to spirituall substances what outward figure and forme he please Howbeit till Bodin be able to demonstrate truely vnto vs that the diuell may haue power to alter essentially a spirituall substance we will neuer acknowledge any possibilitie of transforming their shape or formes at all Exorcistes Well yet Augustine subscribes to such transformations Orthodoxus He doth I confesse Yea those and other like matters are so common in many of his workes as I am driuen to suspect they were rather cunningly foisted in by some cunning popish coniuring Priest to credit his cosening practises then carefully inserted by Augustine himselfe to set foorth a truth Howsoeuer I say with Cardanus that how many of those transformations Augustine saith he hath seene with his eies so many I am content for the reuerence I owe him to giue credit vnto All the rest I account but Cabalisticall conceits and no better in effect then foolish toies to mocke an Ape Yea and so much the rather because Augustine himselfe affirmeth those transformations to be but phantasticall and that they are not according to the veritie but according onely to their outward appearance Lycanthropus Yet such then according to outward appearance Orthodoxus I alow no such supposed appearances made by diuels because I find no such power giuen them by God in all the scriptures Besides that if we admit that diuels may take onely but formes or shapes vpon them though not the very substance it selfe of a true naturall body yet then also Christ his argument made else where vnto his disciples had not been sound in euery point saying thus handle me and see for a spirit it hath not flesh and bones as you see me to haue Setting downe visibility and palpability as things opposite to the nature of spirits and diuels reducing his disciples in discerning of spirits to the iudgment first of their eies and then next of their hands and arguing thus Spirits can neither be seen nor felt but I may both be seen and felt therefore I am no spirit And then next he reasoneth a disparatis thus A spirit it hath
neither flesh nor bones but I haue both therefore no spirit Putting down there you see very apparant and manifest properties to seperate himselfe in shew from a spirit And therefore if spirits and diuels haue power by any possible meanes to transforme themselues but into the onely outward formes and shapes of true naturall bodies though not substantially transformed in deed yet could not that which Christ concludeth haue soundly established the disciples faith concerning the true body of Christ. Because they by reason of such supposed apparitions remaining still doubtfull might haue fitly replied thus Good sir though spirits and diuels haue not substantially flesh and bones and therefore no true and substantiall bodies yet can they truely transforme themselues into the outward shapes and formes of true naturall bodies and so notwithstanding we may be deceiued in an onely outward appearance These exceptions you see the disciples of Christ they might iustly haue made neither if these transformations be vndoubtedly true might Christ so sharply haue blamed their vnbeleefe Lycanthropus Spirits I confesse they are not palpable but only visible and therefore not the seing without the handling might wel haue satisfied Christ his disciples Orthodoxus Yea but whatsoeuer you imagine of the other disciples if you rightly way and exactly consider the text it selfe with the seuerall circumstances you may plainely perceiue that the fault of Thomas his incredulity was secondly bewraied and condemned for that the durst neither credit the vewe taken by the other disciples nor trust his owne eies concerning the truth of Christs body For saith Christ because thou hast seen not because thou hast felt thou beleeuest Also blessed are they that beleeue and see not and not they that beleeue and feele not Giuing thereby to vnderstand that our corporall eies may truely discerne betweene a spirit and a true naturall body which were not true if spirits and diuels could possibly transforme themselues into any visible shapes or formes of true bodies for thereby the sence of seeing might soone be deluded And in very deed it is very erronious for any to imagine that the eies may possibly be deceiued in discerning between spirits and diuels and true naturall bodies as appeareth by sundry scriptures Wherein Christ very sharply reprooueth his owne disciples for not crediting the iudgment of their owne eies in such a case Which could not I say be a certeine rule if spirits and diuels can truely and essentially transforme themselues into true naturall bodies or but change themselues into the true shapes and formes of such bodies And this I beleeue doth break the very neck of those your supposed transformations of spirits and diuels whatsoeuer Lycanthropus This that you say is vndoubtedly true and yet still me thinke the diuell should haue power so to transforme himselfe either in substance or appearance at least although I my selfe am vnable to render any one reason thereof Orthodoxus It is verie ridiculous saith one for a man to leaue manifest things and such as euen by naturall reason may soundly be prooued and so to seeke after vnknowen things which by no likelyhood may be conceiued nor yet tried out by any rule of reason but Good Lord how light of credit is the wauering minde of man How vnto lies and tales his eares attentiue all they can Lycanthropus Good maister Orthodoxus I am drawen by the very force of your speech into a maruelous perplexitie For when I examine the weight of your reasons propounded I am driuen to denie the transformation of spirits and diuels but so soone as I returne to the necessarie consideration of my present distressed estate then that former new-bredde conceit is cut in the necke and squashed quite Orthodoxus And why so I praie you Lycanthropus Surely sir because I my selfe am essentially transformed into a woolfe I make no question but that diuels can also substantially change themselues into any true naturall bodie Orthodoxus Verie true as you say the one is euery way as possible as is the other Lycanthropus Why then alas the Lord be mercifull to vs for what man in the world may possiblie be free from their malice Philologus How now Lycanthropus are you indeed in good earnest doe you verilie imagine you are essentially transformed into a woolfe now surely this is the oddest iest that euer I heard Lycanthropus Nay nay alas it passeth a iest for I finde it and feele it to true by experience Physiologus Well said Lycanthropus now I perceiue your name was not giuen you for nought it being so proportionablie answerable to your phantasticall nature You are called Lycanthropus that is a man transformed to a woolfe which name is verie fitlie deriued from the verie disease it selfe that disorders your braine called Lycanthropia Which worde some Physitions do translate Daemonium Lupinum that is a wooluish Demoniacke others Lupina melancholica and Lupina insania that is a wooluish melancholie or a wooluish furie and madnes And it is nothing else in effect but an infirmitie arising vpon such phantasticall imaginations as do mightâ—ly disorder and trouble the braine Lycanthropus An infirmitie say you It is a verie strange and fearefull infirmitie that can so essentially transforme a man into a verie naturall woolfe God blesse euery good man from such kinde of infirmities Physiologus Had you liued in such a time as beasts and beares woolues were supposed to speake like men it had beene an easie matter I perceiue to perswade you that you are a woolfe Lycanthropus Yea but how are you able to perswade me the contrarie Physiologus That may easily be done by describing briefly vnto you the verie true nature of that the aforesaid diseases which so fearefully affecteth your minde with these phantasticall imaginations and fond conceits Lycanthropus I praie you then describe it plainly vnto me Physiologus With verie good will Wherein you must principally consider that the verie first matter which causeth Lyâ—anthropie or this wooluish Demoniacke consisteth in the very selfesame matter or stuffe that maketh in any other man else a melancholike humour for either of both are melancholike persons Howbeit the peculiar cause it selfe which more especially procureth Lycanthropie is either that kinde of melaâ—choly which ariseth properly of choler adust or that which comes of a simple and naturall melancholie Sometimes also it proceedes of an impostume of bloud in the braine but verie seldome of bloudadust Now then that Lycanthropie which ariseth onely of the abundance of a simple melancholie as it is for the most part the verie woorst of all therefore is called Lupina insania a wooluish furie or madnes so is it commonly seated in the exteriour parts of the braine and hath an operation not vnlike to the matter of a desease called Karabitus which is a hotte impostume of the head seated in the verie ventricle of the braine it selfe causing choller adust and the melancholike matter verie much
as he please For if he be anie waies able there is no doubt of his willingnes in working of mischiefe That if he hath done them before at Mahgnitton he is then able to doe them againe my reason is this namely for that euerie art or action presupposeth alwaies an essentiall power in the artist or actor himselfe Your Apologie therefore reporting as it doth for infallible truth that the diuell in the yoongman at Mahgnitton either did or could possibly accomplish such impossible actions you your selfe must be able to demonstrate by what possible meanes he might possibly effect them which I verily supposse you cannot possibly doe For this you may not be ignorant of that to euery action is required the faculty and ability of the agent the aptnesse of the patient or subiect with a conuenient and possible application of true matter and forme Now then first for the diuel the supposed agent of those your impossible actions he is not omnipotent but an impotent a finite and circumscriptible spirit and his power whatsoeuer it dependeth vpon the analogy and consonancy of his mind and body if he had any at all Howbeit with his mind he can doe no more but vnderstand and will and with his body if he had any at all he could accomplish no more then the very bounds and ends of corporall sense would suffer and the faculty of his nature extendeth vnto and therefore his naturall power whatsoeuer it cannot possibly stretch foorth it selfe to the powerfull effecting of any such supernaturall actions as doe infinitely surmount his naturall and finite faculty his sense his vnderstanding and will So then here wanteth you see first the faculty and power of the efficient it selfe for the possible effecting of those impossible actious wherewith you would mannage your pretended actuall possession Whereupon I infer that if no such supernaturall power at all may be prooued in the diuel his supposed possession then no such supernaturall actions in truth may possibly proceede from the same notwithstanding any your printed reports For in all reason there can be no greater vertue in the thing caused then is in the cause it selfe or in that which proceedes from the benefit of the cause But you in your printed apology doe make the diuel his supposed actuall possession the principall effiâ—ient cause of all such supernaturall actions as were ministerially effected you say by the yong man at Mahgnitton and therefore the said power being finite you cannot possibly conclude from thence any such admirable matters as you would beare vs in hand Neither may you conscionably perswade vs to entertaine for sound truth whatsoeuer you report concerning that point especially if we will credit our owne experience and sense vnabused the rules of philosophy and sound diuinity Now next for any aptnesse in the yoong man at Mahgnitton whom in any wise you will haue the proper patient or subiect of those strang and impossible actions how should there possibly be found in him any aptnesse or inclination at all to any such supernaturall matters he himselfe being but a meere naturall creature consisting naturally of body and soule endued onely with meere naturall faculties and circumscribed no dout with meere naturall bonds And therefore you see it is vtterly impossible for him to haue any further aptnesse or inclination that way then his naturall faculty extendeth vnto and may possibly proceede from the very sway and reache of his owne proper nature Briefly concerning some conuenient and possible application of true matter and forme for the orderly effecting of those your supposed supernaturall actions such a conuenient and possible application is much more impossible then any of the rest Both because no such true matter for those your supposed supernaturall actions was euer preexisting in nature and for that also the true forme it selfe for a conuenient and possible application thereof must needs be supernaturall surmounting by much the naturall power of the diuel And so by consequence those your printed reports they are you see no sound demonstrations to conclude vnto vs the certeine truth of such supposed supernaturall actions Exorcistes Why are you so loth to beleeue that which so many beheld with their eies Physiologus Because I see not how they should possibly behold that with their eies which you would haue me beleeue with my hart contrary to diuinity to philosophy to physick to nature to law and to conscience 1. For first the working of miracles in all sound diuinity is ceased long since neither was the diuel euer able to effect any miracle whatsoeuer he pretended in outwarde appearance 2. Besides that no one reason in all Philosophie may possibly be yeelded for the confirmation of a matter so impossible in reason 3. Againe howsoeuer the yoong man was said to vse ointments in working his feates yet verie certeine I am that no one Physicall receipt may by arte be prescribed for the possible effecting of such impossible actions 4. Nether yet may a circumscribed nature at any hand extend herselfe beyond her owne naturall bounds to the admirable accomplishment of such supernaturall matters 5. Moreouer because there is nothing possible in Law which in nature it selfe is absurd and impossible the Iudge therefore notwithstanding any thing confessed before by the parties he is not to attend or regard whatsoeuer those partiall reporters haue published in print or otherwaies reported to be done by the diuel at Mahgnitton but he must strictly examine and in equitie alowe rather of that thing which is substantially prooued to haue in deed and in truth by him beene effected or which at the least might naturally and possiblie fall within the full power of the agent to do 6. Lastly whatsoeuer the yoong-man may haplie report concerning the supposed accomplishment of any such supernaturall actions by himselfe or the diuell he is not in conscience to be beleeued therein whether his iudgement be sound or vnsound I mean whether he be wel or but wild in his wits For first be it supposed the man were sound in his iudgement yea and so well in his wits as possiblie he might be yet were there no conscience at all to credite a cousoning companion so vnconscionablie auouching such incredible actions But if as may rather be deemed he was someway intoxicated or not well in his wittes when he reported such matters abroad then tell me what conscience or what wisdome it were to credite for infallible truth the crazie confession of a crazie weake braine in matters especially so absurd and so opposite to the orderly course of nature For this I take to be Lawe namely that when the errour of iudgement or the blindnes of will dependeth vpon some secret disease or naturall infirmitie the mens actions then in such kind of cases are in all tender compassion to be carefully pitied but their confessions at no band to be conscionablie credited
power from the Lord to subdue the actuall possession of diuels during especially that primary age immediately succeeding the Apostles of Christ And this also for the more admirable watering of that selfesame Gospel of saluation so admirably planted before by Christ himselfe and his chosen Apostles Lycanthropus And how next in consideration of the churches successiue Orthodoxus The ecclesiasticall mediate power more especially respecting the churches successiue was some certeine imagined faculty ability or force in some certeine peculier persons for the timely expelling of spirits and diuels from out of newly borne infants before their admission to baptisme Hauing also for that speciall purpose their Exorcists and Exorcismes peculierly appointed thereto Which said order or rather disorder of Exorcizing in as much as it wants the warrant of the word and for that also it foisteth very odly into the church such new found offices and officers as neuer were planted by Christ it was neuer yet iustifiable in the court of conscience and we woonder not at all though the same being no plant of the almighty his planting be now plucked vp quite by the rootes Loe these be those seuerall sorts of Exorcizings which were euer yet practized in the true church of Christ since the very first time the Gospel began to be preached among them And these Exorcizings also by some others of speciall account are distinquished or intituled thus namely they are either archicall apostolicall ecclesiasticall or infanticall Howbeit respecting perspiâ—uity or plainesse and for that especially they come all to one and the selfesame period we do rather the more purposely retaine our own order rehearsed before Exorcistes But tel me I pray you were there no other sorts of Exorcizings at any time practized but these fower which your selfe haue expressed Orthodoxus Yes there hath euer beene and will be to the end of the world a certeine conterfeite or fained faculty pretended by some for expelling the possession and power of the diuel and the same also vndoubtedly proceeding from a preposterous emulation or rather from an apishimitation of that selfesame extraordinary power apparantly euident in the Apostolicall or primitiue church For in all ages of the world some certeine od persons are wonderfully affected with either glory or gaine at the least These men therefore perceiuing how easie a matter it was and how glorious a thing with the faithfull for any to haue power ouer diuels they eftsoones attempted or at least they pretended the selfesame power in themselues Yea and which more is euen satan also for the better enthronizing of himselfe in the seate of God as also for a more easie establishing of all his dangerous errours he in like manner attempted an apish imitation of this the admirable power of the Lord for the expelling of diuels And this his pestilent purpose he might so much the more easily effect by how much he plainely perceiued that the miraculous faith did not necessarily require such special persons only as were vpright with God and righteous before men Perceiuing therefore that the very hipocrites also and reprobate wretches men fit for his purpose might fully participate with that selfesame speciall power for the admirable expelling of spirits and diuels as well as the other Satan himselfe he also vndertooke that selfesame enterprise and began by himselfe and his instruments to practise the like And this said counterfeit or fained facultie for expelling the power of spirits and diuels is also foretold Namely Satanicall Ethnicall Iudaicall and Papisticall Lycanthropus What meane you by the Satanicall facultie Orthodoxus That selfesame Thrasonicall brag or that Spanish-like Brauado wherwith the diuel adiured our Sauiour Christ as though by his great wordes he could skar or by his Exorcizing power he would binde our Sauiour himselfe beyond the vtmost borders of Egypt saying I adiure or coniure thee thou Christ that thou torment me nothing at all Howbeit his successe in that proude enterprise was not vnlike to the proude Spaniards successe in eightie eight for notwithstanding any their magicall skill or Thersites-like vaunts they were both constrayned to get home by weeping crosse with confusion and shame to themselues Pneumatomachus And what meane you by the Ethnicall facultie Orthodoxus That Satanicall pretended power which Satan did seeme to practise by heathenish persons as by his organicall instruments for that speciall purpose howbeit such as were strangers and forreiners from the Church of Christ. These men notwithstanding by christals by rings by stones by hearbs and such other like fooleries they would seeme to doe something in shew at the least Philologus And what meane you by the Iudaicall facultie Orthodoxus That selfesame Satanicall violence which the diuell also by those his pharisaicall organons endeuoured to establish and to communicate from hand to hand vnto all the posterity following And these Iudaicall adiurations they were so much the more dangerous by how much the patrones and professors thereof did in outward appearance at least more neerely approch to the Church of God And for that also by an execrable and blasphemous prophaning of that sacred and vnexpresable name of the Lord tetragrammaton they verie pestilently pretended the powerfull establishment of their pestilent practises Yea and which more is so soone as the holy name of our Sauiour Christ began to be admirably and powerfully published abroad they eftsoones also abused that glorious name in euery of their said exorcismes adiurations or coniuring attempts Imagining the honorable name of Iesus to be much more powerfull for that speciall purpose then the name tetragrammaton was euer before And hereof it came also to passe that the seuen sonnes of Sceua the Iewe being stirred vp with a like counterfeit zeale did thereby vndertake to adiure the diuels to their cost Exorcistes Not so for Cyprian very flatly affirmeth that the diuels gaue place to their said coniurations Orthodoxus No such matter at all appeeres in the text Nay it telleth vs rather that the euill spirits ranne violently vpon those Coniurours ouercame them and preuailed against them insomuch as the Coniurours fledde foorth of that house all naked and wounden Nowe these kindes of Exorcismes were very ordinarie among manie in those daies which were not of the Colledge of Christ yea and some of them also but reprobates Which declareth plainely vnto vs that the gift of myracles was then indifferently bestowed vpon good and bad so farre off was it that any holines of that instrument effected the worke Lycanthropus And what meane you by the papisticall facultie Orthodoxus That selfesame presupposed Satanicall power which was compounded partly of Gentilisme and partly also of Iudaisme as a verie mingle-mangle or hotchpotch of all the Magicall sorceries of satan consolidate fully in one filthie confection to the more dangerous deceiuing of vnstable and ignorant persons For first they had their lygatures their herbes their consecrated verum their rootes
their holâ—â— water their salt and such other odde reliques after the manner of the Ethnickes and obserued in euerie of their adâ—urations the heathenish Exorcismes their consecrated christals their sacred rites their magicall ceremonies and coniuring charmes Then next from the Iewes they had also the sacred names of their God tetra-grammaton of Angels of Patriarkes of Christ of the Apostles and holy Martyrs of God that the diuell by such glorious appearances might the more grosly delude and bewitch with strong illusions the mindes of the Infidels Loe these in effect are those other sort of Exorcismes or Coniurations which were couertly brought in by the cunning of satan at any time since the Apostolike or Primatiue age Now then do tell â—et Exorcistes I pray you among whether of these sortes of adiurations you do range or consort that your supposed dispossessing of satan from the yoongman at Mahgnitton Exorcistes Not among any of those fower last rehearsed for they are but Satanicall and diuelish by whomsoeuer effected Orthodoxus Neither may you presume to consort the same among any of those other declared before for they were all supernaturall by whomsoeuer effected and continued onely in that primatiue age as hath beene and shall be apparantly prooued Yea and you your owne selfe haue elsewhere confessed that the miraculous curing of feauers palsies leprosies diseases and that driuing out of diuels by Christ and his owne Apostles gaue credit to the glorious Gospell Which said Gospell of Christ being alreadie so fullie confirmed by the Apostles preaching and theis miracles folowing must now be entertained by faith without any such heathenish expectation or curious requiring of woonders as the â—uill and adulterous nations do daily demaund Exorcistes Howsoeuer you catch holde of any my scattered sentences verie certeine I am and fiue hundred are able to witnes that I draue foorth a diuell from the yoongman there Orthodoxus You are certeine and fiue hundred are able to witnes that you bore them in hand you wrought such a feate But how is your selfe or any one of those fiue hundred able to auouch on their oathes that indeed and in truth you draue foorth a diuell sith diuels are such inuisible and impalpable spirits as cannot possiblie be discerned by any sensible meanes Exorcistes I doe freely confesse there can be no sensible appearances of any their essentiall departures from men because spirites and diuels they are onely of a spirituall inuisible and impalpable being Howbeit that the yoong-man at Mahgnitton was vndoubtedly dispossessed of satan the signes thereof doe confirme which are crying aloud rending sore and leauing as dead these signes were seene and heard at the instant of his deliuerance And therefore from thence I doe reason thus Where there was crying aloud rending sore and leauing as dead there were the vndoubted true signes of the dispossessing of satan But in the yoongman at Mahgnitton there was crying aloud rending sore and a leauing as dead therefore there were in the yoongman at Mahgnitton the vndoubted true signes of the dispossessing of satan Orthodoxus I answere you thus Where there is crying aloud rending sore a leauing as dead there are the vndoubted true signes of the dispossessing of satan But in mania in phrenesies in the mother in conuulsions in Catalepsies in Epilepsies and Lunacies there is crying aloud rending sore a leauing as dead therfore in euery of the aforesaid diseases there are the vndoubted true signes of the dispossessing of satan So theÌ„ by this you see it is very apparant you must likewise coÌ„clude that so many as are sicke of the aforesaid diseases they are actually also possessed of Satan because in euerie of them also those your supposed infallible signes of dispossession are verie apparant or else you must be enforced to confesse that crying aloud rending sore and leauing as dead they are no such vndoubted true signes of the dispossessing of satan as you would beare vs in hand they be Exorcistes Why man they are the vndoubted true signes put downe by the blessed Euangelistes to declare the like dispossession performed else where by our Sauiour himselfe For so soone as Christ had but said to the diuell thou dumbe and deafe spirit I charge thee come out of the childe then foorthwith the spirit hee cried and rent the childe sore and came out of him and the childe was as one being dead insomuch as many said he is surely dead See now I beseech you whether these be vndoubted true signes of the dispossessing of Satan Orthodoxus Well goe to If we must in any case account them the vndoubted true signes of the dispossessing of satan then do tell me I pray you whether we must take them for the precedent or the subsequent signes of such dispossessions I meane whether we must account them such vndoubted true signes as doe onelie preceed and go before the action it selfe or such rather as do necessarily succeede and folow the same Exorcistes Euen for such vndoubted true signes as doe necessarily succeed the dispossession it selfe otherwaies how could they be certeine signes of a certeine deliuerance the deliuerance it selfe not fully effected And so the Euangelist Marke he puts them downe as the subsequent signes of that selfesame action Orthodoxus But yet the Euangelist Luke he telleth vs plainely that while the childe was comming to Christ and or euer that Christ began to adiure or command the diuell to depart the diuell he rent and tore the childe Thereby declaring vnto vs that those cryings aloude those rendings and tearings and that leauing as dead are rather the vndoubted true signes of Satan his actuall possession then of any his dispossession at all So then howsoeuer the Euangelist Marke doth put downe those matters partly preceeding and partly succeeding the action it selfe Verie certaine I am it was neuer his purpose to haue them esteemed as vndoubted true signes of euerie the dispossessions of Satan whatsoeuer but rather to be taken as the infallible effects of that selfesame speciall action which Christ at that present performed Otherwise if these cryings these rendings and this leauing as dead must necessarily confirme vnto vs the certaintie of euerie dispossession of Satan in whomsoeuer then how should we be assuredly perswaded concerning the certaine truth of all other the dispossessions of Satan in whom those the aforesaid signes are not found Namely of those whom Christ performed in the Gergesenes of those which the seuentie disciples effected and of that which Paul accomplished in the Pythonist with sundrie other besides for in no one of those the dispossessions of Satan are any of those your vndoubted true signes reported and yet we doubt not at all of their certaine deliuerances The premisses therefore considered we may verie fitly retort your reason vpon you thus In those adiurations whatsoeuer where there was no crying aloude no rending sore nor no leauing as dead there were
no vndoubted true signes of any dispossessing of Satan But in all the adiurations which concerne the aforesaid examples there was no crying aloude no rending sore nor no leauing as dead therefore in all the adiurations which concerne the aforesaid examples there were no vndouted true signes of the dispossessing of satan Thus then it is very apparant you see by all the premisses that vnlesse you will purposely fall into palpable absurdities you may at no hand auouch that those cryings those rendings and tearings and that leauing for dead are the vndoubted true signes of the dispossessing of satan No you must rather perswade your selfe they were purposely reported for speciall and proper effects of that speciall and proper action of Christ and not considerately put downe for perpetuall and vndoubted true signes of all the actuall dispossessings of spirits and diuels in whomsoeuer Notwithstanding be it supposed which will neuer be prooued that your selfe did vndoubtedly driue foorth a diuel from the yoongman at Mahgnitton and that some cryings aloude some rendings sore and some leauing as dead were then also the speciall effects of that your supposed speciall action doe here tell vs I pray you after what speciall manner you effected the action Whether onely by meanes or by a miraculous manner Exorcistes Surely euen onely by meanes and not by any miraculous manner of working at all Physiologus Good Maister Orthodoxus let me argue this matter a little Come on Exorcistes doe you hold in good earnest that diuels may bee driuen foorth from men and that onelie by meanes Exorcistes I am very confident therein I assure you Physiologus Make your mind plaine before we proceede And tel me I pray you whether spirtts and diuels by very natural or corporall meanes may be truely dispossessed and driuen from men Exorcistes Yea euen by very naturall or corporall meanes Physiologus Why man spirits and diuels they are meere spirituall creatures But such is the proper condition of spirituall creatures that all corporall matters whatsoeuer they come short thereunto by many degrees and therefore we may boldly conclude that those corporall or sensible things can work nothing efficiently in spirits and diuels can offer no violence at all vnto them nor possibly expell them from any their actuall possessions Exorcistes Yes sir I am able to demonstrate this matter by an argument of comparison thus There is one and the selfesame condition of spirits and of liuing mens soules for they are both of them spirituall essences But euen by a meere corporall or sensible meanes may some violence be offered to liuing mens soules yea they may thereby eftsoones be separated quite from their bodies and therefore euen to spirits also by meanes of some corporall or sensible matter there may eftsoones some violence be offered and they also may be expelled quite from their actuall possessions in man Physiologus Your argument of comparison it consisteth not of such pares as are equally alike in euerie respect no it halteth downe right in that selfesame point wherupon it is more especially grounded and therefore it enforceth no necessarie conclusion vpon vs at all For the condition of spirits and of liuing mens soules howsoeuer alike in spirituall essence it is vtterly vnlike respecting the bodies whereupon they both worke Soules they are properly conioyned to their owne proper bodies as the verie first essential forme thereof appointed by God howbeit spirits not by any proprietie but by vsurpation rather they are onely actually there as the afflictors or tormentors permitted by God So then for those former respects the soules of liuing men doe necessarily require in those their owne bodies some such certaine dispositions and qualities as the diuels themselues they being no true essentiall formes of those bodies require not at all And therefore spirits or diuels they may actually afflict and torment those selfesame bodies of men how vnfitly soeuer they finde them whereas the soules of men vnlesse those their said bodies be aptly proportioned and fitted thereto they cannot informe them at all Exorcistes Sir howsoeuer you enforce a disparison betweene spirites and soules concerning especially their dealings with bodies and thereby would frustrate the force of my argument verie certeine I am that spirits or diuels they may be driuen foorth from mens bodies and that onely by meanes Physiologus But by what meanes I beseech you whether by an vncreated or by a created meanes Exorcistes Not by any vncreated meanes at all For how can I possiblie practise that thing which is either vncreated or not existing in nature Physiologus Then you do flatly conclude that spirites or diuels they may actually be dispossessed euen by a created or meere naturall meanes Exorcistes Yea so much I flatly conclude Physiologus This then I must tell you for certeine that you doe very fondly conclude you wotte not what For this is vndoubtedly true that no created or naturall meanes whatsoeuer may efficiently extend themselues to any such supernaturall actions as do anie way concerne the dispossessing of diuels Because all such supernaturall actions they proceed not at all from any power of nature but from the onely power of obedience By the onely efficacie of which obedientiall power euen any thing of euerie thing may easilie be effected although yet in an onely respect of the mightie Iehouah himselfe the sole and onely efficient thereof For albeit the Saints of the Lord namely Moses and manie others are saide to effect supernaturall actions yet therein wee must rightly vnderstand that onely the Lord alone he workes that by his Saints which he workes by himselfe And therefore in saying as you do that spirits or diuels they may be dispossessed from men by any created or naturall meanes you do therein very ignorantly auouch you wot not well what Exorcistes Yes sir I wot well what I say and am able to demonstrate the truth thereof by many examples Physiologus Let vs heare your examples which make for this matter Exorcistes With verie good will First therefore Iosephus verie plainely reporteth that when Titus and Vespasian besieged Ierusalem there was an Exorciste that time in the hoste who by a certeine stone in a ring deliuered many that were possessed of Satan Moreouer Eleazar the Hebrew as the said Iosephus recordeth he vsed certeine Exorcismes which were inuented and made by Salomon for the expelling of spirits and diuels namely ringes rootes herbes and such other like sensible matters But the stone in the ringe those rootes and those herbes they were onely created and meere naturall meanes therefore some onely created and meere naturall meanes it hath and may haue in it selfe an actuall power for the dispossessing of spirits and diuels Physiologus Why doe you not also alleage that which the said Iosephus and Aelianus also reporteth concerning the herbe Cynospastus being otherwaies called Aglaphotis which hath they say a certeine speciall operation for the powerfull expelling of spirits and
catholike faith doe iointly auouch that spirits and diuels are of an Angelical nature and that howsoeuer by malice corrupted their naturall faculties doe still remaine absolute in them we may consequently conclude that therefore no sensible matter or corporall vertue is able of it selfe directly or indirectly to effect in them any such action they beeing properly of a spirituall substance So that the diuels themselues they cannot by any such created or corporall meanes be compelled to any thing much lesse may they be violently expelled from their actuall possessions in men Although yet I dare not deny but that by a diuine and supernaturall power whether immediate or mediate they may be dispossessed or driuen from their hold Exorcistes But the very text it selfe doth plainely auouch that when Dauid did play on his harpe the euill spirit of the Lord departed from Saul Physiologus My answere is this It is generally doubted and our selues do flatly deny that Saul was euer essentially possest with either spirit or diuel Howbeit because you labour with tooth and naile to prooue the dispossessing of Demoniakes by an onely created or meere naturall meanes and thereupon also would threape vpon vs a supposed essentiall possession in Saul go to let it for arguments sake be granted which will neuer be prooued that Saul in deed was so possest as your selfe do happely imagine what then infer you thereof Exorcistes I infer from thence his vndoubted dispossession and that also by the onely bare meanes of a melodious instrument For Dauid but plaid with his harpe and the euil spirit of the Lord departed from Saul Physiologus Howsoeuer your selfe may conceiue of the matter it is doubted of some whether the euil spirit did euer depart from Saul neither is any man bound to beleeue the same as a certeine truth For this is vndoubtedly true that a man may be alwaies actually possessed and yet not alwaies apprehend the violent or actuall outrage of satan Besides that if Saul had been dispossessed in deed yet that selfesame dispossession was effected neither by the inherent holinesse of Dauid himselfe nor by any supposed helpe of his harpe For a meere created nature it hath of it selfe no possible power to expel the possession of spirits or diuels as was shewed before no that is onely an extraordinary and supernaturall work of the Lord. Exorcistes Yea but the text it telleth vs plainely that when Dauid once handled his harpe the euil spirit of the Lord departed from Saul Physiologus That is the euill spirit he shewed not his outragious force as before in Saul Vnderstanding thereby that the torments of Saul through the melodious sound of Dauids harpe they might for the time be something abated though the euill spirit it selfe if any such there was not vtterly expelled from Saul himselfe and thus much also affirmeth the text Namely that when Dauid did handle his harpe king Saul was refreshed or eased Yea and the seruants also of Saul they accordingly aduised him a little before to procure to himselfe some excellent harper that when the euill spirit should vexe him the said harper might play with his harpe And wherefore I pray you to expell the diuell nay but to ease the king for the present Exorcistes How should the king be eased at all and the spirit not expelled out of his bodie Physiologus Verie well I assure you For this we may boldly auouch namely that by meanes of a melodious sound or some other like sensible matter such as are actually afflicted of Satan they may haue their afflictions for some season abated notwithstanding the actuall possession of Satan it selfe be not vtterly expelled and this also in a double respect First because the action of all actiues are euermore actuall in a predisposed patient in such a subiect I meane as is proportionably appliable and fitted before to the orderly apprehension of those selfesame intended actions For spirits or diuels they cannot essentially alter any one qualitie in a corporal matter when and so oft as it pleaseth themselues they onely may effect some such kinde of thing by meanes of some corporall actiues And for that selfe-same consideration when they would afflict any man with their actuall torments they doe eftsoones respect the naturall disposition of some corporal matter whereupon they may worke their intended effects Knowing this by experience that in euerie such matter as naturally hath in it the selfesame naturall qualities a transmutation of qualities may more easily be effected by much And hereof also it is that certaine Lunatike persons are eftsoones verie strangely and diuersly afflicted at some one time more then another according to the variable disposition of the Moone it selfe as was shewed before Because the Moone being predominant ouer all moist bodies and the braine also of man it being naturally more moist then any part else the said braine is therefore more apt at one time to receiue the actions of Satan then it is at another according to the variable dispositions of the Moone it selfe being then more effectuall in them â—uen as also we see by dayly experience that all shel-fish in the seas they are at the increase of the Moone verie full and eftsoones againe by the onely decrease thereof they become verie emptie So surely the diuell he obserueth those selfesame seasons wherein the bodies of men being weake are more subiect to sicknesses and abuseth those times to his pestilent purposes And therefore euen as by the onely obseruation of meere naturall causes the diuell he may aggrauate his actuall torments in men so surely on the other side by the onely bare meanes of a melodious harmonie or some other such sensible matter there may be procured in the bodies of men such an apt disposition as is lesse subiect by much to those the operations of Satan And so by consequence those sefesame afflictions or torments which were actually inflicted vpon them by Satan they may verie well be abated or lessened notwithstanding the diuell his actuall possession be not vtterly expelled Lycanthropus In what respect else may their said torments be abated Physiologus Secondly this said mitigation of satan his actuall torments inflicted on men it may very easily be effected also if we but consider aright as we ought that to the actuall afflicting of any there is required in the patient an apt apprehension of the intended affliction For euen as delectation or pleasure is none other thing els but the coniunction of some conuenient actiue to some conuenient passiue with an apt apprehension of the present delight in so much as where there is no such apprehension there is no delectation so surely in affliction or heauinesse which is the coniunction of some conuenient actiue to some conuenient passiue there must needs be an apt apprehension of the obiected affliction otherwise where such apprehension is wanting there the affliction is
no affliction at all Whereupon it doth necessarily follow that euen as that which diminisheth the apprehension diminisheth also the affliction it selfe so surely on the other side that which encreaseth the apprehension it encreaseth also the delectation intended But a melodious sound or musicall harmony it draweth vnto it the minds attention and therewithall retracteth the same from the offered affliction And so by consequence it might very well lessen those torments which satan did actually inflict vpon Saul in as much as it drew the minds attention vnto it and withdrew the same for that present from any such apprehension of the torments inflicted but by no meanes in it selfe the same might vtterly expell the actuall possession of the spirit in Saul if any such were Exorcistes If those torments actually inflicted by satan might something be lessened then might they also be totally remooued For seeing that spirits and diuels as your selfe doth affirme are vnable at their owne pleasures to alter the essentiall qualities of any true naturall matter to serue their owne turne but must doe it by meanes of some corporall actiues it followeth consequently that they are also of themselues vnable to afflict any man actually but must do it by meanes of some such corporall actiues as are able very aptly to dispose the passiue matter it selfe to an apt apprehension of the afflictiue action in the party possessed And then according to your owne reason a little before such a disposition by corporall or sensible meanes may eftsoones be wel procured in the body of man as may make the same body become vtterly vnapt for the present to apprehend any the actuall torments of satan As for example the disease called mania which as Damascene reports is a perpetuall fury very mightely disposed to an alienation of mind and so by consequence a disease very apt to the speedy apprehension of any Demoniacall affliction enforced vpon it And yet notwithhanding this said Demoniacall passion proceeding thence as the same may by sensible meanes and physicall medicines be mightely abated so may it in like manner be thoroughly and perfitely cured it being as physitions affirme an infirmity eftsoones very curable But the disease it selfe being perfitely cured that former disposition of the body which was naturally enclined to the speedy apprehension of those selfesame Demoniacall torments so answerable vnto it is in like manner remooued or staied and so by consequence the actiue affliction of satan it may be vtterly expelled from men by an vtter expelling before of the passiue disposition correspondent thereto in the party possessed Now then if a melodious harmony hath in it selfe an apparant efficacy for the present appeasing of passions and greefes of the mind and for the timely procuring of present delights as experience approoueth and Augustine flatly affirmeth it followeth consequently that that selfesame melodious sound which by a sensible or meere naturall quality did vndoubtedly alter the mental passions in Saul the same might also quite change the minds inclination so farfoorth at the least as that selfesame disposition which was naturally inclineable before to the speedy apprehension of satan his actiue affliction was vtterly remooued and thereby also the foresaid affliction it was throughly and perfitely cured Physiologus Wel sir. Thus much first you do fully confesse in your answere namely that by a melodious sound or some sensible meanes there may wel be procured in the bodies humours of men such an apt disposition as the torments actually inflicted by satan may vndoubtedly be abated or lessened Howbeit from thence also you would further inferre that therefore those the said torments actually inflicted by Satan they may in like manner be totally expelled The reason of which your said inference is vndoubtedly this Namely for that by an vtter remoouing of the passiue disposition apprehending those torments inflicted the actiue operation of Satan is likewise vtterly remooued And so when the diuell to our seeming afflicteth no more we must then be perswaded that the euill spirit is vndoubtedly departed from thence and the partie possessed is quite deliuered This I suppose is the verie summe of your inference and the reason also it selfe wherewith you would mannage the matter Exorcistes Yea sir it is wholie the same Physiologus Then this I must tell you for truth that your assertion it is too too absurde and grounded altogither vpon phantasticall and idle conceits For first you imagine there can be no actuall possessions at all vnlesse some naturall disposition or passion at least do offer before hand a free passage thereto This I assure you is vtterly vntrue as may plainly appeere in the person of Saul himselfe of whom we entreate For he in all perfection of nature excelled his brethren by much or any man else in that age He being a goodly yoong man and faire so as among all the children of Israell there was none more goodly then Saul being also from the shoulders vpward much higher then any any in Israell Thus then you see there was no such redundancie of humors nor no other such naturall defects in Sauls constitutiō as might make him the more naturally disposed to the speedie apprehension of any those actuall afflictions which satan inflicted vpon him And yet notwithstanding all this the text it telleth vs plainely that the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul and an euill spirit was sent from the Lord to vexe him withall Secondly you doe no lesse fondly imagine againe that the diuell he is quite gone and departed when he doth not apparantly and actually afflict the possessed The vntruth of this idle conceite we neede not discouer at all it being more apparantly euident then the Sunne-shine at mid-day For the diuell eftsoones he slippeth aside according to sensuall appearance when yet in deed and in truth he still continueth his actuall residence Yea this your idle conceit as it fighteth directly with the faith of those Scriptures which affirme an actuall afflicting but by times and by turnes so doth it cracke the whole credit of that your falslie supposed possession in the yoong man at Mahgnitton who as your owne selfe confesseth and many others can testifie was onely afflicted by fittes and but at seuerall seasons Thirdly you do as fondly imagine that the parties howsoeuer possessed of satan they are neuer actually afflicted vnlesse there be naturally in them before a passiue disposition for the timely apprehension of the intended actuall possession which is euery way more false and vntrue then any of your other conceits Because neither the actuall possession nor the actuall affliction do necessarily proceed from any affection or disposition in nature or from any the absolute power of the diuell but from the onely prouident appointment the powerfull permission and predominant purpose of the onely omnipotent God Who is ergon synergos that is a free and effectuall worker in the workes of all
the powerfull execution of which Processe he so canuassed that cumbersome Spirit as he was glad to betake himselfe to the vttermost borders of Aegypt and euer since then the countrey hath beene free from such dangerous bug-boyes and therefore you may boldly submit your selfe Exorcistes If I submit to this motion my credit is crackt in the world Orthodoxus Why stand you so much vpon your outward reputation before the face of the world against the plaine euidence of your inward conscience in the presence of God Or why will you in this case especially so fondly respect the flying reports of phantasticall felowes What will it preiudice your person though blind ignorance should cancell your credit in the transitorie tables of worldly mens harts when your owne conscience doth not rase foorth your name from the euerlasting Booke of the liuing Put case that those good reports which the world doth affoord you be not found to be faithfully registred in the closet of your conscience then what other effect can they cause in the same but an inward tormenting torture Put case againe that those bad reports wherewith the vile world would besmeere your credit among men be found vtterly false in the consistory of your secret conscience Oh what an exceeding great ioy will be resident there and keepe in the same a continuall feast So then if your owne conscience accuse you not you must not so greatly regard the causeles contumelies of cinicall censurers as that for the same you care not to torture your conscience with continuall torments Neither may you be perswaded that other mens lying reportes are esteemed more authenticall before the tribunall seat of Christ the righteous Iudge then the approoued testimonie of your owne conscience which stands there to be acquited in iudgement The premisses therefore considered I would aduise you rather to respect conscience then fame for fame may oftsoones be forged but so can conscience neuer and therefore submit your selfe Exorcistes Alas sir I am by the verie force of your speech so fearefully distracted as I wotte not which waies to turne me For if I stande out as hitherto I haue done you will repute me to be peeuishly obstinate on the otherside by submitting my selfe to your motion I should but confirme the Bishop in their badde opinion concerning my cause Who suspecting me to be confederate with the boie in some cosening practise haue hitherto handled me too too hardly Orthodoxus Your setled pertinancie in so apparant an vntruth hath bred in euerie of them that bad opinion and your peeuish persisting therein doth more fully confirme them in such a conceit Touching their hard proceeding against your person if you simply respect the cause they could do no lesse then they did although yet respecting especially your place and calling it were to be wished that as well on their as on your owne behalfe a more considerate regard had beene giuen to the maine cause it selfe without any such eger persute or preposterous apologies cōcerning matters of fact For then so soone as it had been made apparantly euident that there are now no possessions at all your standing out in the matter would foorthwith haue beene nipt in the head Whereas they now suspecting perhaps that you had some sinister purpose to manage your publike fasts by such a pretended false miracle haue shewed the more sharpenes and your selfe on the otherside surmizing it may be that they onely maligning the puritie of your pretended profession haue continued so much the more obstinate All which inconsiderate courses and preposterous practises would haue beene fitly forestalled if betweene you all the cause it selfe had beene cleered Howbeit the remedie comes neuer vnseasonablie which may fully effect the cure and that I assure my selfe may yet be accomplished by your dutifull and humble submission Exorcistes Sir notwithstanding anie your patheticall perswasions the premisses considered I may in no wise submit Physiologus Master Orthodoxus that which hath beene hitherto spoken may fully suffice to perswade any reasonable person affecting the sincere truth with freedome of conscience Howbeit this fellow I perceiue he is wholie ouerswaied with some spiced singularitie or with a peeuish selfewill at the least in not submitting himselfe to that truth which he is vnable to answer for any thing hitherto heard You haue I confesse beene toiled too much respecting especially your present meditations for the Sabaoth daies exercise and therefore it shall not be amisse to put an end to our conference In the meane time let Exorcistes repaire to his familiar friendes and those of his faction how many or mightie soeuer Let him intimate our whole discourse to their approoued iudgements Let them dulie consider and exactly perpend the seuerall points and then let them in a more mature deliberation deuise with themselues whether it be better for the man to submit or still to stand out as he doth If they aduise him to yeeld a submission we haue our harts desire and God the whole glorie If otherwise they will haue him standfast to his tackling Let then signifie the manner how with the time and place for our meeting and we will be readie from time to time to conferre with them to the full if they accept of our offer Lycanthropus This is in my simple conceite a Christian motion Pneumatomachus If they dislike they shall greatly discredit their cause Physiologus They are bound to praise God for your Christian care Orthodoxus Well then in the meane time we will pray vnto God to enlighten our iudgements to make vs wise to sobrietie and to giue vnto vs the spirit of discretion that we may be able to discerne the things that differ and to approoue only of those things which are pleasing to God in Iesus Christ and so I take my leaue for the present 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Soli Deo gloria 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 A summarie Table of all the principall points the speciall matters the seuerall syllogismes and the sundrie expositions of such places of Scripture as are any way pertinent to the maine purpose it selfe The first Dialogue pag. 1. CHristian conferences and their commendable vse pag. 2. Sommers his supposed passions put downe 4 Mans nature is euer desirous of Nouelties 6 Christian exercises must be begun with praier 7 Pneumatomachus what it properly signifieth 8 That there are essentiall spirits and diuels 9 Angels are celestiall creatures created of God ibid. Spirits and diuels supposed to be nothing else but the good or euill motions in men ibid. Angels supposed to be none other thing els but the sensible signes of Gods woonderfull power ibid. It is dangerous to denie the essentiall being of spirits and diuels 11 Man is endued with a spirituall and immortall soule ibid. The originall fountaines or grounds of all errors 12 Physiologus and what the same signifieth 13 Philosophie is not simplie forbidden Col. 2. 8. ibid. The true vse of Philosophie expressed ibid. The minde what