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A87595 A sober word to a serious people: or, A moderate discourse respecting as well the Seekers, (so called) as the present churches. Wherein the difference between them touching visible administrations, is discovered and discussed: and may serve as a plea for the nations ministery. / By a lover of truth and peace. Jackson, John. 1651 (1651) Wing J78A; ESTC R202618 52,789 71

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the Word which requires outward obedience so far as the demonstration and power of the Spirit comes so far are we taught and enabled outwardly to obey Now the demonstration of the Spirit is as I conceive the Spirits evidencing and making manifest the true intent and minde of the Apostles in the Ministery as it did evidence and make manifest its own minde in their Administrations when they did administer Now the Apostles they spake by the Spirit and had the minde of Christ He therefore that will interpret their minde in their Ministery which was none other but the minde of Christ must do it by the power demonstration and evidence of the same Spirit by which they spake which was unerring and infallible 1 Cor. 2.11 12 16 Who knows the minde of a man but the spirit of a man c. Again though it might be supposed that there were a clear demonstration of the Spirit yet without the power of the same Spirit believers were not sufficiently furnished to obedience Luke 24.45 49. Act. 1.2 4. Acts 10.38 This Power I take to be a power of Authority as well as Ability Matth. 28.18 and this Authority and Ability are both required at least in some of the branches of a believers obedience In particular the business of the Ministery and the Administrations which are particular to a Church I conceive are such as unto which there is required in whomsoever they may concern a clear understanding by the Spirit so as to be able to say I have the minde of Christ and Thus speaks the Lord and not I. A true Power of Authority as well as Ability to do that work which they say by the Spirit is their duty to do Luke 24.45 49. Acts 4.7 Matth. 9.6 8. A clear evidence and manifestation thereof not onely in themselves but to manifest to others for their profit 1 Cor. 12.7 Now if there be such Believers who not onely touching their own personal estate and condition but also touching Visible Administrations of Publike Worship can say in truth by the Spirit We have the minde of Christ and This speaks the Lord and not we and have also a true and lawful authority to act those things they say they know I shall leave such persons to the trial of their spirits and not doubt but to be able to see that spirit demonstrating it self to the world either in them or others to the praise and glory of the God and Father of spirits In the mean time I shall conceive that whatsoever in the Word is required of believers to do personally as believers that ought to be endeavoured after by every one that is truely so But whatsoever is relatively appropriated to persons as such and such due regard is to be had to God's Order and Dispensation there according to the limits and bounds he hath set Better it is to be fed of Ravens or fast fourty days then distrusting God's provision turn stones into bread Read 1 Sam. 13.11 12 13 a fair pretence but he that believeth maketh not haste Quest Whether those Signes and Wonders whereby God manifested his presence with the Apostles Quest were not rather to confirm their Word and Doctrine then to bear witness to their persons being sent Heb. 2.4 Answ It is in my understanding a truth Answ that those Signes and Wonders were to confirm their Word and Doctrine Mark 16.20 but the case is evident that the works which God wrought by them were not onely to confirm their Word but also to testifie of their Persons that they were sent of God Joh. 5.36 The works which the Father hath given me to finish the same works that I do bear witness of me that the Father hath sent me compared with Joh. 20.21 As my Father sent forth me so I send forth you Joh. 17.18 If the Father sent forth Christ and the works which Christ did testified of him that he was sent of God Joh. 11.42 then Christ sending forth his Disciples as the Father sent forth him Acts 4.13 14 16 the works which they do testifie of them that they are sent of Christ as the works which he did testified of him that he was sent of God 2 Cor. 12.12 The signes of an Apostle were wrought among you c. Quest Seeing gifts are given to profit withal Quest and talents to be improved How according to Rule and Order may the Saints edifie one another and improve their talents for the honour of Jesus Christ out of a Church-estate 1 Cor. 12.7 Answ Such as the gifts and talents be which are given Answ such must the improvement of them be for the honour of Christ I pray you consider the Scripture you have quoted 1 Cor. 12. Where those gifts of the Spirit which are there spoken of are to be found there need not be any care taken how to improve them out of a Church for surely then and there will be a glorious Church where and when those gifts of the Spirit are given to profit with Where there is given by the Spirit a word of Wisdom a word of Knowledge a gift of Faith a gift of Healing a gift of Miracles a gift of Prophecie a gift of discerning of Spirits a gift of Tongues and Interpretation of Tongues when the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every one to profit withal as the Scripture expresseth then there will be an Orderly Administration and an Effectual Operation to the honour of Jesus Christ In the mean time I could desire the Lord's people to consider of that thing they call Gift or Gifts and try by what Name or Title they may be distinguished or called Whether any of these before mentioned or some other If not these but some other I would consider what it is Whether it be given to them to believe Phil. 1.29 to hope joy suffer pray to distribute to the Lord 's poor to bear the burden of the afflicted to mourn over the desolations of the Israel of God to wait for the Day of Restoration to long to groan in expectation for the Day of the Lord. Now if the gifts you speak of be of the first kinde mentioned in 1 Cor. 12. they bring manifestation enough with them to direct to the improvement of them and where-ever they are found surely a Church of Christ is not far off If they be of the later sort I conceive the Spirit of the Lord whose gifts they are is not wanting to manifest to such to whom they are given how they in their measure may be improved to the glory of him that is the author of them But yet a few words more particularly to what I conceive may be the scope of the Question The Apostle in 1 Cor. 10.6 11. speaking of the Jews and that which befel them saith Those things happened to them in types and Whatsoever was written before-time was written for our learning Now it is to be noted that in their travelling condition while they were
which shal not break my head But if thou shalt be found reproaching in stead of reproving and wounding in stead of smiting I hope my God will teach me to say as he did also vers 3. Set a watch O Lord before my mouth and keep the door of my lips Reader thou art desired to correct these Errata with thy Pen. Pag. 2. lin 37. for 26. 5 read 46. 5. p. ibid. l. 17. adde the. p. 5. l. 1. for these read the. p. 7. l. 31. for certain numbers read a certain number p. 20. l. 12. for cast r. cost p. 25. l. 9. for 12. 8. r. 21. 8. p. ibid. l. 33. for Translations r. Translators p. 33. l. 2. for person r. persons p. 36. l. 7. for had r. was p. 39. l. 12. adde of p. 47. l. 24. for 2 Cor. 4.5 r. 1 Cor. 2.4 5. p. 48. l. 15 for particular r. peculiar p. 57. l. 25. for 10. 25. r. 11. 25. A SOBER WORD TO A SERIOUS PEOPLE AMongst those many Discourses which have offered themselves to Publike View in these discoursing Times there have not been wanting several that have asserted the Saints priviledges in their enjoyment of Ordinances Some Moderately Others more Smartly and with less Moderation though with no less Confidence The Entertainment these Discourses have met with I am apt to believe hath been as various That which I have observed in them is that they have frequently taken notice of some that differ from them calling them Seekers Touching whom many things are said by way of Answer to several Objections which are said to be theirs though it be not so demonstrable from any thing yet extant which they if any such there be have owned as theirs Nevertheless in the serious perusal of those very Objections and their several Answers which are exhibited to Publike view there doth seem to lie something not so clear on the Answerers part as is imagined and as were to be wished To shew in all things where this Shortness doth seem at least to lie would require more time then is alotted to me in respect of other employments I shall therefore abbreviate many things and as briefly as I can shall endeavour to shew where I have observed the main difference to be placed The Seekers I do finde are charged with this That they are a people who deny all Ordinances and the Evil of that Evil is laid down and aggravated by several Persons in several Books and in the last most of all These are again distinguished into such as are against all Ordinances or that see not sufficient ground for the present practice of Ordinances or such as are above and beyond Ordinances For the former those which are against i. e. contrary to them they are very improperly called Seekers For the later they which are above and beyond them these are so far from Seeking that they are rather Possessors Enjoyers and Attainers then Seekers properly so called The third sort are such as not seeing a sufficient ground for the practice of Ordinances are said to seek them And is it not their Mercy that most High should give them a heart to seek him for wisdom and counsel and directions touching those things they see not sufficient ground for the present practise of And is it not according to the Apostle's Rule If any man want wisdom he should ask or seek it of God who giveth liberally and upbraideth not In a good sence it is a good thing to be a Seeker In a bad sence it 's not to be applied to them which seek the Lord in sincerity for wisdom how to walk before him Of this sort of Persons and this sort of Seeking this present Discourse onely treats And touching them it may be observed that these Seekers so called are not alike unsatisfied concerning the practise of all Ordinances There are onely some wherein they see not sufficient ground for their present practise There are others which they themselves do practise Viz. First They believe that it is an appointment from the Lord Jesus and that wherein they ought to excercise themselves in searching the Testimonies of the Holy Writings of Truth concerning the minde of God touching things to be believed and practised So did the Eunuch and God met him therein Act. 8.28 to the 25. according to Isa 46.5 Secondly They judge the same touching Prayer and distributing to the necessity of those that want according to Act. 10.1 2 c. hoping to enjoy God both in the former and latter duties and Ordinances of his This is not onely practised personally and privately but as occasion offers by coming together into some place on the First-dayes and at other times as their hearts are drawn forth and opportunity is offered Their ends in so doing and grounds for so doing are these First That they may be Instruments in the hand of the Lord to stir up the grace of God in one another by mutual conference and communication of experiences according to Mal. 3.16 Heb. 10.22 23 24 25. Secondly That they may poure out their complaints to the God and Father of Spirits for the further revelation of himself according to Act. 1.4 16 17 20. Ezek. 36.37 Jam. 5.6 Thridly That they may keep alive and hold out in their measure their witness and testimony against the false and waite for the manifestation of the true Lord Jesus in his pure Ordinances of Ministery and Worship according to Daniel 3.16 17 18. Dan. 6.10 Psal 137 thorowout Expressing their deep sence of the want of what they enjoy not behaving themselves as persons having neither power or gift to go one before another by way of Eminency or Authority but as Sheep unfolded and as Souldiers unrallied waiting for a time of gathering and restitution to the knowledge of what as yet they understand not and the attainment of this is the end of their seeking and to this they stirre up and provoke one another and herein they desire to be found hoping firmely to the end according to the first of Pet. 1.13 Owning nor acknowledging no other visibe Teacher but the Word and Works of God on whom they wait for the Grace which is to be brought at the Revelation of Jesus Christ By which it doth appear that though they come not up to the full of what others say they enjoy in respect of Ministery and Worship yet they are not against them or beyond or above them But comparing such as say they are and have such by the Scriptures of Truth declare themselves to be desirers though not discerners of them Such who though they cannot say they sing the Songs of Sion yet do hang their Harpes upon the Willowes and weep at the remembrance of her to see how like a Plowed field she lies and how her Stones lie covered over with Rubbish Those other Ordinances wherein they do not see sufficient ground for their Practice may be comprehended in these two The present Churches and the present Ministery
its pristine and primitive Constitution as well to respect the Nations which are without viz. the out-casts of Israel together with those worshippers of the Sun and Moon the Moors and Indians and the people that know not God nor have ever heard the sound of him nor of the salvation which through Christ Jesus he holds forth to Mankinde as well as that sort of Ministery which it 's supposed is found among good people who judge they are in Church-estate already though indeed they are both but the fruit of the same ascension and both respect the same end Ministery and duration or continuance For as the Saints already such are not come to a perfect man in Christ and therefore have need of an edifying feeding Ministery so the number of them which are to be gathered are likewise not compleated and therefore need a gathering and breeding Ministery the one without the other being not perfect especially the later not without the former Forasmuch as the Ministery for the World as it was first given namely to the Apostles in these words Go ye into all the world or Teach all nations so it was comprehensive and took in the later and stood sometimes without it they holding out the brest of consolation and confirmation to those to whom they had been as a womb parental or instrumental in conversion Therefore in a return of mercy as in point of Ministery it would be considered Whether the first Apostolical and National Ministery be not again to be looked for hoped for and longed for and prayed for and that by way of eminency not onely for Sion's sake and for Jerusalem's sake but also for the Nations sakes the Kindreds Tongues Peoples those who know not God considering that there is a time wherein John having eaten the book was to prophesie again before many people and nations and tongues and kings Rev. 10. ult And the Angel which he saw flying in the midst of heaven was to preach the ancient Gospel to every nation kindred tongue and people And this was to follow Antichrist's universal over-spreading of the earth for after he had prevailed so far as to cause all both small and great rich and poor bond and free to receive his mark and that no man might buy or sell but he that had received the mark and that all the world wondered after the Beast Rev. 13.3 16 17. after this great power and prevalencie of Antichrist then should the ancient Gospel be preached to every nation kinred tongue and people that dwell upon the earth Rev. 14.6 and then should follow the fall of Babylon v 8 there followed another Angel saying Babylon is fallen is fallen and this should be that Angel Rev. 18.1 2 which should come down from heaven with great power and enlighten the earth with his glory and should cry mightily with a strong voice saying Babylon the great is fallen according to that of the Apostle 2 Thess 2.8 Then shall that wicked be revealed whom God shall consume with the spirit of his mouth and destroy with the brightness of his coming And whether this be not that Ministery which the Lord will send forth to gather his chosen ones from the four corners of the windes Mar. 13. forasmuch as after that the false Christs and false Prophets shall arise and shall shew their seducing signes and wonders to deceive if it were possible the very elect vers 22. and that great tribulation shall happen the sun darkned and the moon not give her light Then shall the Son of man come in the clouds with great power and glory and shall send his Angels or Messengers and shall gather together his elect from the utmost parts of the earth From all which it were to be desired that the Lord would stir up the hearts of his people to cry mightily to him and give him no rest till he accomplish the work of gathering together his number out of all Nations Kindreds Tongues and Peoples the utmost parts of the Heathen being given to Christ as his peculiar inheritance Psal 2.8 and because from the rising of the sun to the going down of the same God's name shall be great among the Gentiles Mal. 1.11 Object Object If this be true which hath been spoken then we must expect more Apostles but it is said in 1 Cor. 4.9 that those were the last Apostles Therefore there can be no ground to expect any more Answ Answ 1. That Scripture concludes not against what hath been spoken as will appear when it is examined The word which is rendered there last 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is in Luke 14.9 taken for the lowest or meanest 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding go sit down in the lowest room And this signification of the word may very well agree with that which is the Argument of this Chapter 1 Cor. 4.9 and so it seems to be carried I think God hath set forth us the Apostles last i. e. lowest or vilest as it were men appointed to death For we are made a spectacle unto the world to Angels and men We are fooles for Christs sake but ye are wise We are made the filth of the world and the off-scouring of all things to this day Let it be considered whether all these several expressions do not more properly agree to the word as it is rendered the lowest or basest then to the word last Apostles Secondly If the word he to be taken for the last yet it doth not necessarily inforce it self to be understood of the last of what shall be but the last of what hath been therefore it is rendred novissimus the newest as our English Dialect will infer the last garment or newest garment are Synonimaes In 2 Pet. 2.20 it 's rendered not last but later And 1 Pet. 1.20 speaking of Christ it 's said He was made manifest in the last dayes Heb. 1.2 it 's said In these last dayes God hath spoken unto us by his Sonne Which last dayes may not be so understood as if they were so the last that there were no more dayes to succeed them for there hath been sixteen hundred years of dayes since that time past and gone neither may I conceive those Apostles were the last or so the last Apostles that there should no more come after them understanding them to be Messengers sent forth as the term Apostle imports for then I would inquire By whom should the out casts of Israel be gathered or the Nations converted to the faith of Christ Jer. 32.37 38. Jer. 23.3 Mar. 13.10 Matth. 24.14 If there be any Nations of the World Kindreds Tongues and People to whom the Gospel hath not been sent it must be done to fulfill the Word of the Lord. And by whom shall it be done but by such Messengers which shall be endued with like power of Evidence and Demonstration both of Tongues and Gifts as the first Messengers or Apostles had to preach