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A87595 A sober word to a serious people: or, A moderate discourse respecting as well the Seekers, (so called) as the present churches. Wherein the difference between them touching visible administrations, is discovered and discussed: and may serve as a plea for the nations ministery. / By a lover of truth and peace. Jackson, John. 1651 (1651) Wing J78A; ESTC R202618 52,789 71

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the Word which requires outward obedience so far as the demonstration and power of the Spirit comes so far are we taught and enabled outwardly to obey Now the demonstration of the Spirit is as I conceive the Spirits evidencing and making manifest the true intent and minde of the Apostles in the Ministery as it did evidence and make manifest its own minde in their Administrations when they did administer Now the Apostles they spake by the Spirit and had the minde of Christ He therefore that will interpret their minde in their Ministery which was none other but the minde of Christ must do it by the power demonstration and evidence of the same Spirit by which they spake which was unerring and infallible 1 Cor. 2.11 12 16 Who knows the minde of a man but the spirit of a man c. Again though it might be supposed that there were a clear demonstration of the Spirit yet without the power of the same Spirit believers were not sufficiently furnished to obedience Luke 24.45 49. Act. 1.2 4. Acts 10.38 This Power I take to be a power of Authority as well as Ability Matth. 28.18 and this Authority and Ability are both required at least in some of the branches of a believers obedience In particular the business of the Ministery and the Administrations which are particular to a Church I conceive are such as unto which there is required in whomsoever they may concern a clear understanding by the Spirit so as to be able to say I have the minde of Christ and Thus speaks the Lord and not I. A true Power of Authority as well as Ability to do that work which they say by the Spirit is their duty to do Luke 24.45 49. Acts 4.7 Matth. 9.6 8. A clear evidence and manifestation thereof not onely in themselves but to manifest to others for their profit 1 Cor. 12.7 Now if there be such Believers who not onely touching their own personal estate and condition but also touching Visible Administrations of Publike Worship can say in truth by the Spirit We have the minde of Christ and This speaks the Lord and not we and have also a true and lawful authority to act those things they say they know I shall leave such persons to the trial of their spirits and not doubt but to be able to see that spirit demonstrating it self to the world either in them or others to the praise and glory of the God and Father of spirits In the mean time I shall conceive that whatsoever in the Word is required of believers to do personally as believers that ought to be endeavoured after by every one that is truely so But whatsoever is relatively appropriated to persons as such and such due regard is to be had to God's Order and Dispensation there according to the limits and bounds he hath set Better it is to be fed of Ravens or fast fourty days then distrusting God's provision turn stones into bread Read 1 Sam. 13.11 12 13 a fair pretence but he that believeth maketh not haste Quest Whether those Signes and Wonders whereby God manifested his presence with the Apostles Quest were not rather to confirm their Word and Doctrine then to bear witness to their persons being sent Heb. 2.4 Answ It is in my understanding a truth Answ that those Signes and Wonders were to confirm their Word and Doctrine Mark 16.20 but the case is evident that the works which God wrought by them were not onely to confirm their Word but also to testifie of their Persons that they were sent of God Joh. 5.36 The works which the Father hath given me to finish the same works that I do bear witness of me that the Father hath sent me compared with Joh. 20.21 As my Father sent forth me so I send forth you Joh. 17.18 If the Father sent forth Christ and the works which Christ did testified of him that he was sent of God Joh. 11.42 then Christ sending forth his Disciples as the Father sent forth him Acts 4.13 14 16 the works which they do testifie of them that they are sent of Christ as the works which he did testified of him that he was sent of God 2 Cor. 12.12 The signes of an Apostle were wrought among you c. Quest Seeing gifts are given to profit withal Quest and talents to be improved How according to Rule and Order may the Saints edifie one another and improve their talents for the honour of Jesus Christ out of a Church-estate 1 Cor. 12.7 Answ Such as the gifts and talents be which are given Answ such must the improvement of them be for the honour of Christ I pray you consider the Scripture you have quoted 1 Cor. 12. Where those gifts of the Spirit which are there spoken of are to be found there need not be any care taken how to improve them out of a Church for surely then and there will be a glorious Church where and when those gifts of the Spirit are given to profit with Where there is given by the Spirit a word of Wisdom a word of Knowledge a gift of Faith a gift of Healing a gift of Miracles a gift of Prophecie a gift of discerning of Spirits a gift of Tongues and Interpretation of Tongues when the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every one to profit withal as the Scripture expresseth then there will be an Orderly Administration and an Effectual Operation to the honour of Jesus Christ In the mean time I could desire the Lord's people to consider of that thing they call Gift or Gifts and try by what Name or Title they may be distinguished or called Whether any of these before mentioned or some other If not these but some other I would consider what it is Whether it be given to them to believe Phil. 1.29 to hope joy suffer pray to distribute to the Lord 's poor to bear the burden of the afflicted to mourn over the desolations of the Israel of God to wait for the Day of Restoration to long to groan in expectation for the Day of the Lord. Now if the gifts you speak of be of the first kinde mentioned in 1 Cor. 12. they bring manifestation enough with them to direct to the improvement of them and where-ever they are found surely a Church of Christ is not far off If they be of the later sort I conceive the Spirit of the Lord whose gifts they are is not wanting to manifest to such to whom they are given how they in their measure may be improved to the glory of him that is the author of them But yet a few words more particularly to what I conceive may be the scope of the Question The Apostle in 1 Cor. 10.6 11. speaking of the Jews and that which befel them saith Those things happened to them in types and Whatsoever was written before-time was written for our learning Now it is to be noted that in their travelling condition while they were
These two were the Grand and Capital and Comprehensive Institutions and appointments of the Lord Jesus unto which He gave gifts for the perfecting of the Saints But whether the present Ministery and the present Churches be those Ordinances of His which He then instituted and appointed and not rather something like them or instead of them is the matter in Question The persons called by the name of Seekers having compared them with the Word of God and not finding them to conform thereunto dare not joyne issue in the present practice of them which of it self is ground sufficient yet that it may appear that this ground and reason is not without Reason somewhat is to be added by way of Demonstration and Evidence There have not been wanting those which have taken paines to prove the Affirmative and to reprove the Negative sharply It 's necessary to consider of those proofes seriously and endeavour to apply those reproofes as profitably as may be to state the matter in question as fairely and truely as the present Capacity is abilitated and can extend to First I finde it 's most generally taken for granted that Disciples quâ Disciples or as others say Disciples able to preach the Gospel have power and are commanded to Baptize Matth. 28.19 and upon this ground it 's practised and this is all the Ministery that I can finde is acknowledged by some Secondly that Believers may incorporate themselves and become a Church is by others affirmed from Joh. 1.12 That being made sons by believing they have power to become the sons of God in state which I suppose is meant that Believers have power to estate themselves into visible Sonship or else I know not what to make of the distinction Others express the same thing with other words much different proving a Church and Ministery upon other Principles and Grounds From all which as I differ in the Matter so I shall in the Method desiring to lay down something Positively from these Scriptures submitting to the judgement and censure thereof judging it most profitable rather then to take notice of the several Objections I have seen with the Answers to them Knowing well that Truth is truely evidencing and convincing and if this shall approve it self so it will save labour of answering those Objections though something will be spoken to them also in their place Our blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ who himself was the Great Apostle of his Father as well as the High-priest of our profession Heb. 3.1 whilst he was to perform his Father's work Rom. 15.8 whose Messenger or Apostle he was as being set apart and sent forth for that purpose Joh. 6.38 39 40. Joh. 12.49 and spake and acted according to the commandment he had received from the Father In the performance of which Ministration or Service he was pleased to single out some certain persons from amongst others whom he appointed and authorized to wait upon him in that Ministration or Service Those he termed Disciples or Apostles Matth. 10.1 When he had called to him his Disciples he gave them power c. Now the names of the twelve Apostles were these c. These twelve Jesus sent forth and commanded them saying Go not into the way of the Gentiles but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and as ye go preach 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Vers 16. Behold I send you forth c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 These twelve were such as he ordained from amongst others Mar. 3.13 He went up into a mountain and called to him whom he would and they came unto him And he ordained twelve that they should be with him and that he might send them forth to preach Luke 6.13 And when it was day he called to him his Disciples and of them he chose twelve whom he also named Apostles These Disciples were not meerly such as were followers of Christ and had learnt of him as Scholars but such as himself out of others had Chosen Called and Ordained that they should be with him and that he might send them forth to preach which accordingly he did and named them Apostles as Matth. 10. and Luke 6. doth evidence And what Commission he had the same he gave to them As he saith of himself I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel so he commanded them not to go to the Gentiles nor into the way of Samaria but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel Matth. 10.5 Besides these he likewise sent forth the Seventy with like Power and Commission to preach the Gospel and to confirm it by Miracles as Himself and the Apostles also did But in a more especial manner did the Twelve converse with him upon all occasions as his assidual attendants or houshold-servants During the time of his Administration upon earth and when he was about to finish the work which the Father sent him to do so far as concerned his personal presence he delegated that power the Father had committed to him into the hands of them those very persons whom before he had ordained to be with him Matth. 28.18 19 20. Now the time approaching wherein the Mosaical Dispensation was to expire and the Christian Church and its Worships to be introduced in the stead thereof our Lord Jesus having fulfilled all righteousness as touching the Law gives commandment that the Gospel be preached to all Nations baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit Touching the persons to whom Christ did delegate the power and authority of Preaching and Baptizing much is written as hath been hinted before Some say To Believers as Believers Some say To Disciples as Disciples Some say To Preaching Disciples Some say To Disciples able to preach the Gospel so as to bring over souls to believe and be baptized Others speak in other expressions It is too much to follow them in all There be four things I shall desire may be enquired into the discussion whereof will take in most of the Scripture which any way give light to the understanding of this Subject and which may occasionally answer many Objections which otherwise require particular discussion I shall propound them by way of Question First Whether Christ did not commit the Preaching of the Word and administration of Baptisme to a Ministery Secondly What the nature and end of that Ministery was which the Lord Jesus appointed to succeed him Thirdly Whether there be any pattern of any visible Congregated Church under the Gospel without or before a Ministery or Baptisme Fourthly Whether the present Ministery and present Churches may be acknowledged the Ministers and Churches of Christ according to the first Pattern To the first of these That Power and Authority to Preach and Baptize was committed to the Apostels or to the Eleven Disciples as to a Ministery might be demonstrated First From the Equity of it which appears in the Respect or Care which