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A14227 An ansvver to a challenge made by a Iesuite in Ireland Wherein the iudgement of antiquity in the points questioned is truely delivered, and the noveltie of the now romish doctrine plainly discovered. By Iames Vssher Bishop of Meath. Ussher, James, 1581-1656.; Malone, William, 1586-1656. 1624 (1624) STC 24542; ESTC S118933 526,688 560

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and love unto our most deare friend Lastly Pope Innocent the third or the second rather being inquired of by the Bishop of Cremona concerning the state of a certaine Priest that dyed without Baptisme resolveth him out of S. Augustine and S. Ambrose that because he continued in the faith of the holy mother the Church and the confession of the name of Christ he was assoyled from originall sinne and had attayned the joy of the heavenly country Upon which ground at last he maketh this conclusion Ceasing therefore all questions hold the sentences of the learned Fathers and command continuall prayers and sacrifices to bee offered unto God in thy Church for the foresaid Priest Now having thus declared unto what kinde of persons the Commemorations ordained by the ancient Church did extend the next thing that commeth to consideration is what we are to conceive of the primarie intention of those prayers that were appointed to be made therein And here we are to understand that first prayers of Praise and Thankesgiving were presented unto God for the blessed estate that the partie deceased was now entred upon whereunto were afterwards added prayers of Deprecation and Petition that God would be pleased to forgive him his sinnes to keep him from Hell and to place him in the kingdome of Heaven which kinde of intercessions howsoever at first they were well meant as we shall heare yet in processe of time they proved an occasion of confirming men in diverse errors especially when they beganne once to be applyed not onely to the good but to evill livers also unto whom by the first institution they never were intended The terme of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a thankesgiving prayer I borrow from the writer of the Ecclesiasticall Hierarchy who in the description of the funerall observances used of old in the Church informeth us first that the friends of the dead accounted him to be as he was blessed because that according to his wish he had obtained a victorious end and thereupon sent forth Hymnes of thankesgiving to the authour of that victory desiring withall that they themselves might come unto the like end and then that the Bishop likewise offered up a prayer of thankesgiving unto God when the dead was afterward brought unto him to receive as it were at his hands a sacred coronation Thus at the funerall of Fabiola the praysing of God by singing of Psalmes and resounding of Alleluia is specially mentioned by S. Hierom and the generall practise and intention of the Church therein is expressed and earnestly urged by S. Chrysostom in this maner Do not we prayse God and give thankes unto him for that he hath now crowned him that is departed for that he hath freed him from his labours for that quitting him from feare he keepeth him with himselfe Are not the Hymnes for this end Is not the singing of Psalmes for this purpose All these be tokens of rejoycing Whereupon hee thus presseth them that used immoderate mourning for their dead Thou sayest Returne O my soule unto thy rest for the Lord hath dealt bountifully with thee and dost thou weepe Is not this a stage-play is it not meere simulation For if thou dost indeed beleeve the things that thou sayest thou lamentest idely but if thou playest and dissemblest and thinkest these things to be fables why doest thou then sing why doest thou suffer those things that are done Wherefore doest thou not drive away them that sing and in the end hee concludeth somewhat prophetically that he very much feared lest by this meanes some grievous disease should creepe in upon the Church Whether the doctrine now maintayned in the Church of Rome that the children of God presently after their departure out of this life are cast into a lake that burneth with fire and brimstone be not a spice of this disease and whether their practise in chanting of Psalmes appointed for the expression of joy thankfulnesse over them whom they esteeme to be torme●ted in so lamentable a fashion be not a part of that scene and pageant at which S. Chrysostom doth so take on I leave it unto others to judge That his feare was not altogether vaine the event it selfe doth shew For howsoever in his dayes the fire of the Romish Purgatorie was not as yet kindled yet were there certain sticks then a gathering which ministred fuell afterwards unto that flame Good S. Augustin who lived three and twentie years after S. Chrysostoms death declared himselfe to be of this minde that the oblations and almes usually offered in the Church for all the dead that received baptisme were thankesgivings for such as were very good propitiations for such as were not very bad but as for such as were very evill although they were no helpes of the dead yet were they some kinde of consolations of the living And although this were but a private exposition of the Churches meaning in her prayers and oblations for the dead and the opinion of a Doctor too that did not hold Purgatorie to be anie article of his Creed yet did the Romanists in times following greedily take hold of this and make it the maine foundation upon which they laid the hay and stubble of their devised Purgatorie A private exposition I call this not onely because it is not to be found in the writings of the former Fathers but also because it suteth not well with the generall practise of the Church which it intendeth to interpret It may indeed fit in some sort that part of the Church-service wherein there was made a severall commemoration first of the Patriarches Prophets Apostles and Martyrs after one maner and then of the other dead after another which together with the conceit that an injury was offered to a Martyr by praying for him was it that first occasioned S. Augustin to thinke of the former distinction But in the supplications for the spirits of the dead which the Church under a generall commemoration was accustomed to make for all that we●e deceased in the Christian and Catholicke communion to imagine that one and the same act of praying should be a petition for some and for others a thankesgiving only is somwhat too harsh an interpretation especially where we finde it propounded by way of petition and the intention thereof directly expressed as in the Greek Liturgie attributed to S. Iames the brother of our Lord Be mindfull O Lord God of the spirits and of all flesh of such as vve have remembred and such as we have not remembred being of right beleefe from Abel the just untill this present day Do thou cause them to rest in the land of the living in thy kingdome in the delight of Paradise in the bosoms of Abrahā and Isaac Iacob our holy fathers whence griefe sorrow sighing are fledd where the light of thy countenance doth visit them and shine for ever and in the Offices compiled
most forcible of all the rest those wherewith the simpler sort are cōmonly most deluded might carry some shew of proofe that Christs flesh blood should be turned into bread wine but have no maner of colour to prove that bread and wine are turned into the flesh and blood of Christ. The truth of the second appeareth by the four●h verse in which we finde that this fell out not long before the Passeover and consequently a yeare at least before that last Passeover wherein our Saviour instituted the Sacrament of his Supper Wee willingly indeed do acknowledge that that which is inwardly presented in the Lords Supper and spiritually received by the soule of the faithfull is that verie thing which is treated of in the sixth of Iohn but wee denie that it was our Saviours intention in this place to speake of that which is externally delivered in the Sacrament and orally received by the Communicant And for our warrant herein wee need looke no further then to that earnest asseveration of our Saviour in the 53. verse Verily verily I say unto you Except yee eate the flesh of the Sonne of man and drinke his blood ye have no life in you Wherin there is not onely an obligation laid upon them for doing of this which in no likelyhood could be intended of the externall eating of the Sacrament that was not as yet in being but also an absolute necessitie imposed non praecepti solùm ratione sed etiā medij Now to hold that all they are excluded from life which have not had the meanes to receive the Sacrament of the Lords Supper is as untrue as it is uncharitable And therefore manie of the Papists themselves as Biel Cusanus Cajelan Tapper Hessels Iansenius and others confesse that our Saviour in the sixth of Iohn did not properly treat of the Sacrament The third of the points proposed may be collected out of the first part of Christs speech in the 35. and 36. verses I am the bread of life hee that commeth to mee shall never hunger and he that beleeveth on me shall never thirst But I said unto you that yee also have seene me and beleeve not But especially out of the last from the 61. verse forward When Iesus knew in himselfe that his Disciples murmured at it hee said unto them Doeth this offend you What then if you should see the Sonne of man ascend up where hee was before It is the spirit that quickneth the flesh profiteth nothing the words that I speake unto you are spirit and life But there are some of you that beleeve not Which words Athanasius or whosoever was the author of the Tractate upon that place Quicunque dixerit verbum in filium homi●is noteth our Saviour to have used that his hearers might learne that those things which hee spake were not carnall but spirituall For how many could his bodie have sufficed for meat that it should be made the food of the whole world But therefore it was that he made mention of the Sonne of mans ascension into heaven that he might draw them from this corporall conceit and that hereafter they might learne that the flesh which he spake of was celestiall meat from above and spirituall nourishment to be given by him For the words which I have spoken unto you saith he are spirit and life So likewise Tertullian Although he saith that the flesh profiteth nothing the meaning of the speech must be directed according to the intent of the matter in hand For because they thought it to be a hard and an intolerable speech as if he had determined that his flesh should be truly eaten by them that hee might dispose the state of salvation by the spirit hee premised It is the spirit that quíckneth and so subjoyned The flesh profiteth nothing namely to quicken c. And because the Word was made flesh it therefore was to be desired for causing of life and to be devoured by hearing and to be chewed by understanding and to be digested by faith For a little before he had also affirmed that his flesh was heavenly bread urging still by the Allegory of necessary food the remembrance of the fathers who preferred the bread and the flesh of the Egyptians before Gods calling Adde hereunto the sentence of Origen There is in the New Testament also a letter which killeth him that doth not spiritually conceive the things that be spoken For if according to the letter you do follow this same which is said Except yee eate the flesh of the Sonne of man and drinke his blood this letter killeth And those sayings which everie where occurre in S. Augustines Tractates upon Iohn How shall I send up my hand unto heaven to take hold on Christ sitting there Send thy faith and thou hast hold of him Why preparest thou thy teeth and thy belly Bele●ve and thou hast eaten For this is to eate the living bread to beleeve in him He that beleeveth in him eateth He is invisibly fedd because he is invisibly regenerated He is inwardly a b●be inwardly renewed where he is renewed there is he nourished The fourth proposition doth necessarily follow upon the third For if the eating and drinking here spoken of be not an externall eating and drinking but an inward participation of Christ by the communion of his quickning spirit it is evident that this blessing is to be found in the soule not onely in the use of the Sacrament of the Lords Supper but at other times also It is no wayes to be doubted by anie one saith S. Augustine that every one of the faithfull is made partaker of the body and bloud of our Lord when he is made a member of Christ in Baptisme and that hee is not estranged from the communion of that bread and cup although before he eate that bread and drinke that cup hee depart out of this world being setled in the unitie of the body of Christ. For he is not deprived of the participation and the benefite of that Sacrament when hee hath found that which this Sacrament doth signifie And hereupon wee see that diverse of the Fathers doe apply the sixth of Iohn to the hearing of the Word also as Clemens Alexandrinus Origen Eusebius Caesareensis and others We are said to drinke the blood of Christ saith Origen not onely by way of the Sacraments but also when we receive his word wherein consisteth life even as hee himselfe saith· The words which I have spoken are spirit and life Vpon which words of Christ Eusebius paraphraseth after this maner Doe not thinke that I speake of that flesh wherewith I am compassed as if you must eate of that neither imagine that I command you to drinke my sensible and bodily blood but understand well that the vvords which I have spoken unto you are spirit and life So that those very words and speeches of his are his flesh and blood whereof who
thinke will take the paynes to get him a new heart and a new spirit and undertake the toylsome worke of crucifying the flesh with the lustes thereof if without all this adoe the Priests absolution can make that other imperfect or rather equivocall contrition arising from a carnall and servile feare to be sufficient for the blotting out of all his sinnes Or are wee not rather to thinke that this sacramentall penance of the Papists is a device invented by the enemie to hoodwinke poore soules and to divert them from seeking that true repentance which is onely able to stand them in stead and that such as take upon them to helpe lame dogges over the stile after this maner by substituting quid pro quo attrition in stead of contrition servile feare in stead of filiall love carnall sorrow in stead of godly repentance are physicians of no value nay such as minister poyson unto men under colour of providing a soveraigne medicine for them Hee therefore that will have care of his soules health must consider that much resteth here in the good choyce of a skilfull physician but much more in the paines that must be taken by the patient himselfe For that every one who beareth the name of a Priest is not fit to bee trusted with a matter of this moment their owne Decrees may give them faire warning where this admonition is twise laid down out of the author that wrote of true and false repentance Hee who will confesse his sinnes that he may finde grace let him seeke for a Priest that knoweth how to binde and loose least while he is negligent concerning himselfe he be neglected by him vvho mercifully admonisheth and desireth him that both fall not into the pit which the foole would not avoid And when the skilfullest Priest that is hath done his best S. Cyprian will tell them that to him that repenteth to him that worketh to him that prayeth the Lord of his mercie can grant a pardon hee can make good that which for such men eyther the Martyrs shall request or the Priest shall doe If we inquire who they were that first assumed unto themselves this exorbitant power of forgiving sins we are like to finde them in the Tents of the ancient hereticks and schismaticks who promised unto others libertie when they themselves were the servants of corruption How manie saith S. Hierom which have neyther bread nor apparell when they themselves are hungry and naked and neyther have spirituall meates nor preserve the coate of Christ intire yet promise unto others food and rayment and being full of wounds themselves bragge that they be physicians and doe not observe that of Moses Exod. 4.13 Provide another vvhom thou mayest send that other commandement Ecclesiastic 7.6 Doe not seeke to be made a Iudge lest peradventure thou be not able to take away iniquitie It is Iesus alone who healeth all sicknesses and infirmities of vvhom it is written Psalm 147.4 He healeth the contrite in heart and bindeth up their soares Thus farre S. Hierom. The Rhemists in their marginall note upon Luke 7.49 tell us that as the Pharisees did alwayes carp Christ for remission of sinnes in earth so the Hereticks reprehend his Church that remitteth sinnes by his authoritie But S. Augustin treating upon the selfe same place might have taught them that hereby the bewrayed themselves to be the off spring of Hereticks rather then children of the Church For whereas our Saviour there had said unto the penitent woman Thy sinnes are forgiven and they that sate at meate with him began to say within themselves Who is this that forgiveth sinnes also S. Augustin first compareth their knowledge and the knowledge of the woman thus together Shee knew that hee could forgive sinnes but they knew that a man could not forgive sinnes And wee are to beleeve that all that is both they which sat at table and the woman which came to our Lords feet they all knew that a man could not forgive sinnes Seeing all therefore knew this shee who beleeved that hee could forgive sinnes understood him to be more then a man and a little after That doe you know well that doe you hold well saith that learned Father Hold that a man cannot forgive sinnes Shee who beleeved that her sinnes were forgiven her by Christ beleeved that Christ was not only man but God also Then doth hee proceede to compare the knowledge of the Iewes then with the opinion of the Heretickes in his dayes Herein saith he the Pharisee was better then these men for when he did thinke that Christ was a man he did not beleeve that sinnes could be forgiven by a man It appeared therefore that the Iewes had better understanding then the Hereticks The Iewes said Who is this that forgiveth sinnes also Dare a man challenge this to himselfe What saith the Heretick on the other side I do forgive I doe cleanse I doe sanctifie Let Christ answer him not I O man when I was thought by the Iewes to bee a man I ascribed the forgivenesse of sinnes to faith Not I but Christ doth answer thee O Heretick Thou when thou art but a man sayest Come woman I doe make the safe I when I was thought to be but a man said Goe woman thy faith hath made thee safe The Hereticks at whom S. Augustin here aymeth were the Donatists whom Optatus also before him did thus roundly take up for the same presumption Vnderstand at length that you are servants and not Lords And if the Church be a vineyard and men be appointed to be dressers of it why doe you rush into the dominion of the housholder Why doe you challenge unto your selves that which is Gods Give leave unto God to performe the things that belong unto himselfe For that gift cannot be given by man which is divine If you think so you labour to frustrate the words of the Prophets the promises of God by which it is proved that God washeth away sinne and not man It is noted likewise by Theodoret of the Audian hereticks that they bragged they did forgive sinnes The maner of Confession which he saith was used among them was not much unlike that which Alvarus Pelagius acknowledgeth to have beene the usuall practise of them that made greatest profession of religion and learning in his time For scarce at all saith hee or very seldome doth any of them confesse otherwise then in generall termes scarce doe they ever specifie any grievous sinne What they say one day that they say another as if every day they did offend alike The maner of Absolution was the same with that which Theodoricus de Niem noteth to have beene practised by the pardoners sent abroad by Pope Boniface the ninth who released all sinnes to them that confessed without any penance or repentance affirming that they had for their warrant in so doing all that power which Christ gave unto
his spirit in the mouth of his Prophets and of Noë in particular when God having said that his Spirit should not alwayes strive with man because he was flesh did in his long suffering wait the expiration of the time which he then did set for his amendment even an hundred and twentie yeares For which exposition the Aethiopian Translation maketh something where the Spirit by which Christ is sayd to have beene quickned and to have preached is by the Interpreter termed Manphes Kades that is the Holy Spirit the addition of which epithet wee may observe also to bee used by S. Paul in the mention of the resurrection and by S. Luke in the matter of the preaching of our Saviour Christ. for of the one we read Rom. 1.4 that he was declared to be the Sonne of God with power according to the Spirit of Holinesse or the most holy Spirit by the Resurrection from the dead and of the other Act. 1.2 that hee gave commandements to the Apostles by the holy Spirit Thus doth S. Hierome relate that a most prudent man for so he termeth him did understand this place He preached to the spirits put in prison when the patience of God did wayte in the dayes of Noë bringing in the flood upon the wicked as if this preaching were then performed when the patience of God did expect the conversion of those wicked men in the dayes of Noë S. Augustine more directly wisheth us to consider least happily all that which the Apostle Peter speaketh of the spirits shut up in prison which beleeved not in the dayes of Noë pertaine nothing at all unto Hell but rather to those times which hee compareth as a patterne with our times For Christ sayth he before ever hee came in the flesh to die for us which once he did came often before in the spirit to such as hee pleased admonishing them by visions in the spirit as hee pleased by which spirit hee was also quickened when in his passion hee was mortified in the flesh Venerable Bede and Walafridus Strabus in the Ordinarie Glosse after him set downe their mindes herein yet more resolutely He who in our times comming in the flesh preached the way of life unto the world even he himselfe also before the flood comming in the spirit preached unto them which then were unbeleevers and lived carnally For by his holy spirit hee was in Noë and the rest of the holy men which were at that time and by their good conve●sation preached to the wicked men of that age that they might bee converted to a better course of life The same exposition is followed by Anselmus Laudunensis in the Interlineary Glosse Thomas Aquinas in his Summe and diverse others in their Commentaries upon this place Yea since the Councell of Trent and in a booke written in defence of the faith of Trent Doctor Andradius professeth that hee thinketh this to bee the plaine meaning of the place In which spirit he himselfe long since comming that we may not imagine that hee now first undertooke the care of his Church did preach unto those spirits which now in prison doe suffer the d●served paines of their infidelitie forasmuch as they would not beleeve Noë giving them good counsaile and building the Arke by Gods appointment notwi●hstanding the patience of God did wayt for them very long to wit a hundred yeares or more which accordeth fully with that interpretation of S. Peters words which is delivered by the learned of our side In which spirit hee had gone and preached ●o them that now are spirits in prison because they disobeyed when the time was when the patience of God once wayted in the dayes of Noë vvhile the Arke was a preparing 1. Pet. 3.19 20. But there were diverse apocryphall scriptures and traditions afoot in the ancient Church which did so possesse mens mindes with the conceite of Christs preaching in Hell that they never sought for anie further meaning in S. Peters words as that sentence especially which was fathered upon the Prophet Esay or Ieremy and from whence if Cardinall Bellarmines wisedome may be heard it is credible that S. Peter tooke his words namely The Lord the holy one of Israel remembred his dead which slept in the earth of their graves and descended to them to preach unto them his salvation and that blinde tradition which Anastasius Sindita doth thus lay downe immediatly after his citation of S. Peters text It is now related among the old traditions that a certaine Scholler using many opprobrious speeches against Plato the philosopher Plato appeared unto him in his sleepe and said Man forbeare to use opprobrious speeches against mee for thereby thou hurtest thy selfe That I was a sinfull man I doe not denie but when Christ descended into Hell in verie deede none did beleeve in him before my selfe Nicetas Serronius reciteth this out of the histories of the Fathers which whether it bee to bee beleeved or no I leave saith he to be judged by the hearers as if any great matter of judgement should be requisite for the discerning of this to be as Bellarmine doth censure it a fable or as Dionysius Carthusianus before him an apocryphall dreame The like stuffe is that also which was vented heeretofore unto the world in the apocryphall gospell of Nicodemus to say nothing of that sentence which is read in the old Latin edition of the booke of Ecclesiasticus I will pearce all the lower-most parts of the earth and behold all that are asleepe and enlighten all them that hope in the Lord. which although it be not now to be found in the Greeke originall and hath perhaps another meaning then that to which it is applied yet is it made by the author of the imperfect worke upon Matthew one of the chiefe inducements which ledd him to thinke that our Saviour descended into Hell to visite there the soules of the righteous The tradition that of all others deserveth greatest consideration is the article of the Creed touching Christs descent into Hell which Genebrard affirmeth to have beene so hatefull to the Arrians that as Ambrose reporteth upon the fifth Chapter of the epistle to the Romanes they struck it quite out of the verie Creed But neither is there the least footstep of any such matter to be seene in S. Ambrose and it sufficiently appeareth otherwise that the Arrians did not onely adde this article unto their Creedes but also set it forth and amplified it with many wordes so farre off were they from being guiltie of suppressing it For as the Fathers of the first generall Councell held in the yeare of our Lord CCCXXV at Nice in Bithynia did publish a Creed against the Arrians so the Arrians on the other side in the yeare CCCLIX set out a Creed of their owne making in a Synod purposely kept by them at Nice in Thracia that by the ambiguitie of the