you vs of this as a consideratioÌ„ to reduce us to your church when we because such Atheists wicked ar coÌ„trary to Gods wil suffred among you doe separate from your Church 3. Agayn who be those godly ministers and people you mean If such as are called Puritans they haue I suppose moe adversaries theâ— freinds in your church yea the publick state alwes and canons of your church are against them and all that know the truth of God and theâ—r estate aright haue just cause to blame them for theâ—r long halting and dissembling If the Prelates be those godly minâ—sters they haue in regard of their vnlawfull places and proceedings many good people for their aduersaries both within and without the land and your selues also which suffer for sâ—paration in your church By neither of these two contrary factions among you ar men ordinarily conuerted unto Christ both sorts setting your selues against the true way of Chrâ—st for gathering and gouernmenâ— of the Church and worship of God and so do hinder mens saluation and deserâ—e to be not approued but reproued in the name of the Lord. The 5. Consideration 5. GOD hath giuen witnâ—â— for the truth of our ministerie by the vndoubted tâ—stimony of his gracious presence and approbation of the same by his gifts of 1. sanctifiâ—ation 2 knowledge 3 spirit of discerning 4. of vtterance 5 of power and authority in teaching 6 effectuall and ordinarie â—alling and begetting to the faiâ—h of God and bringing them from darknâ—s to light from the old man to the nâ—w from the flâ—sh vnto the spirit which ministery of ours begat you â—lso if ever you were truâ—y bâ—gotten in the spirit by Gods mâ—rcie hath begotten me other hâ—s vnworthy seruants Answer 1. THe Papists will say as much as all this and more too if words will serâ—eâ— for the ministery of their church they boast of theâ—r Friers Iesuâ—ts holines knowledge utterance authority in teaching and their maruelous effects in conuerting to Christianity the Indians other â—eâ—thens all ouer the world Yea what religeon glorieth not in tâ—e sanctitie gifts and effects of their ministerie But Gods word must try all 2. The ministerie of â—our Church being Archbishops L. Bishops Deanes Archdeacons c Priests and Deacons as is to be seen in the books statutes and canons of your church you brâ—ng not here any one word of God or text of scriptures which are his testimonies to witnes for the truth of your ministery and this is indeed worthy to be considered of vs of al that shall read your Considerations 3. Your own brethren heretofore confessed and complayned to the Parliament that you lack in England a right ministery of God that the ministers are neithâ—r proued elected called nor ordeyned according to Gods word This testimonie being true how then doth God giue witnes for the truth of your ministery 4. The witnesâ—es that you bring if they be examined wil say little ar nothing to this purpose For 1. The gift of santification is a common note of Christianity 1. Thes. 4.3 1 Pet. 2.9 and therefore no speciall note of a ministery This was Korahs argument when he would haue vsurped the Priesthood All the congregation is holy euery one of them why may they not therefore be Prâ—ests Num. 16.3.10 But what saith the scripture No man taketh thâ—â— honour to himselfe but he that is called of God as Aaron was Heb. 5.4 2.3 The second and third 2 knowledge 3 of the spirit of discerning are also generall for the whole church and not speciall for the ministerie Rom. 15.14 Phil. 1.10 Yea some in the flock may have a greater measure both of sanctification and of knowledge then the Pastor or teacher or any Officer It cannot be denied but Barsabas had knowledge as wel as Matthias yet was he not therefore an Apostle Act. 1.23.26 and they whose genealogies could not be found had knowledge as wel as the other Prâ—ests yet were they not therâ—fore kept in the Priesthood Ezra 2.62 Boast not you therefore of your knowledge but shew vs yoâ—r genealogies in the scriptâ—res There be a great many in your ministerie called dumb Priestâ— whâ—ch are but bare readers by whose meanes many people perish for want of knowledge these testimonâ—es will be dumb for them yet your â—â—urch proclaymeth them to be â—rue ministers Your best ministerâ— of whose knowledge you boast shew themseluâ—â— ignorant or worse in the 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 â—lanting of a church whâ—les they will haue it as their â—ractise proueth with commixâ—â—re of al form without separation whereaâ— they cannot shew any true church since the beginning of the world but was of a separaâ—ed people Gen. 61.2 12 1. Lâ—v 20.23.24 Ezr. 6 21. Act. 2 40.41 19 9. c. 4. 5. The fowrth and fift 4. vttâ—rance with 5 power authority in teaching are needfull in such as are ministers but no neceâ—sarie proof of a true ministerie For had not the false Apostles and Prophets utterance and power that preached wâ—th eloquence and wisdom of words dâ—sgracing the Apostles and Prophets of the Lord 2 Cor. 10.10 11.13.15 1. Kin. 22. â—4 Ier. 23.31 28.1.2.10 11. 2 Tim. 3.8 Your ministers many preach not at al many preach to mayntain the pompous prelacie laudable ceremonies of your Church and they that prâ—ach best shew little power or authority For how many yeers haue they been preaching for Discipline and against some corruptionâ— of your church yet nothing preuailed but are further now at last then they were at the first Who knoweth not that the prelates haue closed vp the mouthes of many Ministers that the prophesie of Esaias is verified vpon them Isa. 56.10 and yet you boast of theâ—r utterance auâ—hority in teaching But lamentable ministers are they â—ll and the best of them may be seen to be but briers and to haue betrayed the authority of Christ For when they took the Order of Priesthood as they call it they solemnly promised euen before the Lord and by his help that they would giue their faithfull diligence alwayes so to minister the doctrine and sacraments and the discipline of Christ as the Lord hath commanded as this realm hath receiued the same according to the commandements of God so that they mought teach the people committed to their care and charge wâ—th all diligence to keep obseruâ— the same They promised also reuerently to obey their ordinary other chief ministers is to whom the gouernmeÌ„t charg is commited ouâ—r them following with a glad mind and will their godly admoniâ—ion and submitting theÌ„seluâ—â— to their godly juâ—gement Yet your forward preachers as they are esteemed doe not minister the doctrine sacraments and discipline of Christ as thâ— Lord hath commanded but sue and wait for authority from the Magâ—strate to haue that whâ—ch they count the true discipline of Christ erected in theâ—r parishes which because the ciuill Magistrate doeth not they practise
life which serue to heal the nations with if he offer to touch the Egyptian vlcers that appeare in your worship church-government ministerie ceremonies c. he is presently thrust out of dores and if he dare but affirme these or any of these to be disceases and botches in your body sinns against God or repugnant to his word he is excommunicated ipso facto by the decrees of the whole representatiue church of England And are you willing now to be healed Nay if any among you not medling with the publike estate of your church but feeling or fearing his own particular sowl sicknes doe resort to a physician whose receipts are not after the common sort for aduise about his health or of friendship and acquaintance to see him he is subiect to the censure and thunderbolt of your church Witnesse the late practise in Norwich where certayn citizens were excommunicated for resorting vnto and praying with Mr Robinson a man worthily reverenced of all the city for the graces of God in him as your selfe also I suppose will acknowledge and to whome the cure and charge of their sowles was ere while committed Would any vnmercifull man haue dealt so with his bondslaue in a case of bodily sicknes But hereby all may see what small hope there is of Curing the Kanker of your church THe second question is Are they themselues healed then where were they healed where were they called where were they regenerate and begotten to Christ was it not in the womb of this our church and by means of the immortall seed of Gods word that is dayly sown in our church a holy church a church of God where in ordinarily men are called and brought to God The winde bloweth where it will and we heare the sound thereof but know not whence it cometh and whether it goeth so is every one that is bâ—rne of the spirit To your demaund then I answer we werâ— câ—llâ—â— being in Bâ—â—ylon your Church I meane which restreyneth the 〈◊〉 by vnriâ—hteousnes there was our regeneration begun Where we faâ— in darknes and in the shadow of death the light of God appeared and 〈◊〉 vs lâ—fe If you yet inquire how this was I refer you to 〈…〉 brouâ—ht light out of darknes and daylie bringeth forth the 〈…〉 treasâ—re and his wayes are past finding out for as I knâ—w 〈◊〉 tâ—e way of the winde nor how the bones doe grow in the womb of her that is with childe so know I not the work of God that worketh all If you demaâ—nd of the means it was doubtlesse the word and spirit of the Lord without which there is no calling no regeneration Now where you ask how then we can deny that to be a true church wherâ—in 〈◊〉 men are called and brough to God I answer first you take vp more thâ—n we lay down when you say â—rdinarily for the ordinary and common fruit of the word among you is through your own corrupt handling and hearing of it euell and not good the many walke the broad way and Gods calling is like to that which the Prophet sayth one of a city and two of a tribe in resâ—ect of the worldly multitudes Secondly all the Saincts are not begotten vnto Christ in the wombe of a true particular church for when the Apostle preached among Pagans conuerted many I would know in the womb of what church they were begotten they were first conuerted vnto Christ before euer they were in any other church then that Ierusalem which is aboue the mother of all the elect Let vs come to later times your selues when you began to be a church of protestants in what particular womb were your people begotten I suppose if in any it was in the womb of your mother church of Rome where they had both receiued Baptisme the seal of regeneration and been catechised in Christian religion and then look how your selues can deny that to be a true church or be free of vnthankfulnes towards her that bare you But you prosecute your cause against vs and would driue vs eyther to say there is indeed a true ministery of the word among you but it is not powrfull to any but our selues or els that we were not called in your church but since we left you To the first I answer there is no necessity that we must grant a true ministery for first we hold that the true word may be put in Balaamites mouthes and a false ministery may through Gods wondrous grace beget faith in his elect if you say otherweise you will shake the foundation of your English church layd by Austâ—â— the monk Pope Gregories Apostle and damn all your late fathers vnder the Roman Clergie Secondly we â—ie not the grace of God in the true church to the ministers lips knowing that men by other meanes are often conuerted to the Lord. And if your ministers in England hold that men cannot be begotten to Christ among them but by their preaching you may take vp your Letanie which causlesse you vse for vs and say from this horible and bellish pride good Lord deliuer them As they cannot restreyn the winde from blowing so much lesse the spirit of God from breathing out of other places then ministers mouthes To the second also I answer that it is one thing to be called in your church as you speake and another thing to be called by your church or ministery as I thinke you mean It is written Reu. 18.4 Goe out of her my people you see here Gods people were in Babylon and are called ovt of the same not by Babel it selfe or any minister of it buy by a voyce from heauen So we might be called in your church though not by the same And thus we haue not bard our selues from pleading against you as you would bear men in hand neyther yet shew you of whom or wher you had that which you say we all stoutly answer and stifly stand to it namely that we leau your church meerly only out of conscience c. We haue a better ground if you would receiue it euen the Law of the Lord that so commandeth both vs and our consciences Conscience is the blinde Papists common plea but we know that mans conscience is as much defiled as any other part or power of his sowl or body and therefore it may be no rule of our actions but the law of God onely which is pure perfect and vndefiled Yet you wil needs proceed and say then we had conscience before we left you I answer yea or els we would not haue left you Thinke you that your predecessors had no conscience when they left the Popish church Then where say you of us and minde whether the Papists will not say as much of you where came they to that conscience and care of their saluation but in our church You are answered before we had it in your church as Gods
King of the church of England p 74. c. not the spowse of the same pag 42. c Compulsion to the faith and church vsed in Engl. but vnwarrantable pag 120.78.131 c.. p 133 Constitution of a church pag 98.99 K. Edwards reformation of religion and how it was accepted pag. 120.133 Foundation Christ and Fundamentall truth pretended and discused pag 34.123 c. 126.117 c Gifts proue not a true ministery pag 13 c. Matter of the church of Engl. pag 106. Ministery of the church of Engl. pag 108 c. A Papist argument against the church of Engl. pag. 111. Pattern of planting a church pag. 44. Popular gouernment obieâ—ted and answered pag. 101 c. Popes authors of many ordinances now in Engl pag. 137 c. Positions concerneng a true church pag. 65 c. Profession in Engl. contrary to their estate and praâ—tise pag 124 c Reformation by the Kings of Iudah p. 134. c Reformed churches alleged for approbation of the church of Engl. and answered pag. 9 10.22 c. 48 51 â—2 c. 128 129. Repentance not truely preached or practised in the church of Engl. pag. 45. c. 56. c. Separation proued necessary p 5 22 granted by our aduersaries pag. 1 Synns suffred how they defile the church pag. 101. c. Spirits of the Prophets subiect to the Prophets scanned pag. 28.29 Testimonies of the ministers of Engl. against the estate of that church concerning The people pag. 2.107.108.59 60 62.122.125 126.127 The ministery and ministers pag. 3.11.112.81 114.119 136 142 143. The worship pag 3 The church gouernours pag 4 Worship of God in the church of England polluted pleaded for against pag. 137. c CONSIDERATIONS Touching the poynts in difference betvveen the godly 〈…〉 people of the Church of England and the seduced brethren of the separation A Separation we deny not from the corruptions of the Church wherein we liue 1 in iudgment 2 profession 3 practise 1 of teaching euâ—ry part of truth and righteousnes 2 of performing the things we teach 3 of reprouing every part of sin and error 4 and absteyning from all corruptions of life and dâ—ctrine for which particulars so many of both parts haue suffred and doe suffer so many things But the difference is we suffer for separating in the Church you out of the Church And this to be true you know vnlesse you will cauill against your own conscience and knowledge Answer WHO so examineth these your Considerations and weigheth them in the ballance of equitie may finde them wanting in many poynts touching the differences between your Church and vs that separate froÌ„ the same and insufficient in the poynts that are handled to perswade any wise hart to returne vnto you You ouerpasse 1 the hierarchie of your spirituall Lords the prelates with their vnder officers which reign ouer you 1 and the forme of Gods worship by your Leitourgie or seruice booke set vp and vsed in all your parishes These are two mayn exceptions that we make against you though you dissemble them in this your writing and insist vpon other two 1 the people and 2 inferior ministerie as I conceiue you as if these onely were the poynts of difference between vs and you Which whether you haue done of ignorance or of fraud rather to deceiue your reader I leaue it vpon your conscience to consider of Againe the two things that you take vpon you to handle you for down in these termes the godly Ministers and people of the Church of England whereas our separation is from your Church in generall wherein many vngodly ministers and people are to be found standing in commixture or confusion rather as one body with those which are estemed more godly and religeous and therefore you deale not syncerely to make our separation to seem but from apart and those the godly Agayn whereas there is a scisme in your Church by two contrary factions at warr with your selues Conformitans and Puritans as you stile one another you deale not plainely to tell vs whither party you meane to defend but lead your reader into clowdes and mâ—st speaking of godly miâ—isters and people not naming who or where they are That thoâ—gh one may gueâ—se whome you mean yet you write so generâ—lly covertly that if danger or in conuenience come by any thing you haâ—e sayd yoâ— may sâ—ifâ— it of to eyther side for your best aduantage A 〈◊〉 you deny not from the corruptions of the Châ—rch whâ—rein 〈◊〉 liue yet 〈…〉 not what those corruptions are which behooued you to haâ—e done if you woulâ— haue effeâ—ted oâ—r retâ—rne vnto you For we are uerily perswaded that they are nothing bâ—t your corruâ—tâ—ons 〈◊〉 we haue separated froâ— and therefore cannot reioyne our selues vnto you till they be remoued And seeing you may minde some things to be corruâ—tions in your Châ—rch and we othersome it cannot be we should well accord till particulars be related which therefore if you write agayn we pray you in your next to set downe Yet for the present it is well that the truth hath wrung out such a testimony from yovr own mouth and pen whiles you grant and deny not such a separation in generall as you mention to the branches whereof if you will stand and abide also by whâ—ch you haue heretofore wrâ—tten I doubt not but the discreet reader will see your bat ell is â—ot so much against vs as against your selues the sword which you haue dra◠〈◊〉 slay svch as be vpright of way doth enter into the verie hart of your own Church the bâ—wes which you haue bent at us are broken For â—e forsake your Church for this mayn corruption that all sorts of profane and wicked men haue been and are both they and their seed receiued into and nourished withâ—n the bâ—some of your Church contrary to the first couenant of our redemption wherein God with his owne mouth proclaymed perpetvall emnity and warr against the Serpent and his seed which the women and her seed should wage though with the brusing of the heel thereof Gen. 3. Contrary also to the example of all Gods Churches since the world begann who alwayes were seperated from the vngodly as the scriptures shew Now that this is a corruption aâ—ong you your selues haue taught saying and complayning that in the Church are swarmes of Atheists jdolaters Papists erroneus and hereticall sâ—ctaries witâ—hes charmers sorcerers murtherers theeues adulterâ—rs liers c Also that among you the holy Saccraments are communicated with the Papists the holy misteris of God profaned the Gentiles enter into the Temple of God the holy things are indifferently communicated with clean and vnclean circumcised and vncircumcised Againe that there be thâ—wsands which be men and women growne which if a man ask them how thâ—y â—halbe saued they cannot tell As for wickedness in pride envy haâ—red and all sinns that can be nâ—med almost it deth ouerflow and yet
force If your people were truelâ—e regenerate they would not sinne mâ—stike me not I know the remainders of sinne dwell in the best men and draw them to that they neyther would not ought but as thâ— Apostle sayth He that is borne of God sinneth not And seing so many and great sinns reign in your best assemblies how can you say you are regenerate for I haue before manifested that ordinarilie people are kept and continued among you in an vnholy communion with the wicked and irreligious and nourished with sâ—perstition and idolatrâ— these and the like things are no tokens of true regeneration Mr Iohnsons confession is before treated of and will not import that which you would infer The causes and meanes ordeyned by God to beget faith are not by Esa 55 11 Râ—m 10.17 proued to be among you For there is spoken of the word going out of the Lords mouth but your minâ—sters are not the Lords mouth because they haâ—e not from him their calling sending and authoritie to preach bâ—t haue it from his enemie Antichrist and as the Apostle saith how shal thâ—y preach except they be sent Neither are they as the Lords mouth because they separate not the precious from the vile Ier. 15 19. Neyther are the infallible effects of faith c. proued by Gâ—l 5 6 â—2 to be in the true members of yâ—ur best assemblies For seing faith is there sayd to work by loue and there is no loue of Christ vnlesse men keep his commandements and his commandâ—ments are not kept in your idolatrouâ— assemblies it cannot be affirmed that you loue the Lord if so you contineâ— continew in sinne or that you haue true faith But rather seing the contrary works of the flesh which the Apostle there mentioneth adultery fornication c idolatrie witchcraft hatred c. contentions seditions heresies c. are found in the true members of your church for all among you are baptised and all baptised are true members you are more rightly to be reputed vnregenerate and vnsanctâ—fied in that your sinnfull and confused estate Neyther haue you Christs power in your best assemblies to cast out the wicked from among you but they are fostered fâ—d and blessed with your word prayers sacraments c. and such as absteyn from your idolatrie and from communion with the wicked you hate reproach excommunicate and persecute that your church is indeed a mother to the profane But a stepmother to the faithfull The 6 argument THose Churches for whome the Churches of God reiâ—yce are true Churcheâ— 2. Thes. 1.4 But our best assemblies are such for whome the churches of God reioyce Ergo. The reason of the proposition is because the churches of God haue the spirit of discerning a true church and ministery from a false as Ioh 10.27 5. Maâ— 24 24 1 Cor. 14 32. and 10 15· 1 Ioh. 4 1· The assumption is true because all the churches of God reioyce in our best assemblies and haue giuen vs the right hand of fellowship and testimony of a truâ—â—hurch hauing ioyned our publick confession with their Harmony Answer THIS argument is one and the same with the third of your first Constlerations saue that it hath gotten the fashion of a syllogisme The in sâ—fficiencie of this reason I haue there shewed and thether doe referr the reader Further here I answer that you turne the testimony of the reformed churches to your best advantage yet neyther with equitie nor good successe For they joy not for your best assemblies more then for your worst but for your Church in generall and the confeâ—sion of the same They rejoyce for every Bishop Priest and Deacon and for every Parish that maketh such confession as Bishop Iewel in his Apologie hath set down Part of which Apologie they haue vnited with their Harmâ—nie And why bring you them as approuing your best assemblies onely Your Lords the Prelates may truely say you doe them wrong to apply vnto your selues the applause which other churches giue to their Apologie They wil tel you in your own words the churches of God haue the spirit of discerning a true church and Ministery from a false But the reformed â—hurches haue discerned the nationall church of England whereof the Archbâ—shop of Cant· is Pastorâ— to be a true church they haue discerned the Diâ—cesan Bishâ—ps in England as well as the Parish Priests to be true Ministers and reioyce as well for their Sees as for yoâ—r Parishes hauing joyned these all alike in their Harmony And what will you that suffâ—r sâ— many things for sepâ—rating in yâ—ur châ—rch as yoâ— sâ—yd answer to your right reverend Fathers against whome like vnnaturall children yoâ— hauâ— striven so long and would have them with their jâ—risdâ—ctâ—on â—ut out of your church thâ—t the Pâ—râ—sh priest or Deacon mâ—ght Lord it alone More particularly I answer yoâ—r first propostion is vnsound cannot be proâ—ed from the scripture you allege 2 Thâ—s 1.4 from which text yoâ— must conclude on this faâ—hâ—on Pâ—ul and Siluanus and Timotheuâ— reioyced of the Thesalonians in other churches of Gâ—d because of their pacience and faith in all persecutions c. Therefore the reformed churcheâ— reioycing for the church of England it must needs be a true church The conseqâ—ence is denied True churches may err in their judgment of an other church especialy if theâ— be not rightly informed of the statâ— thereof as the reformed churches are not by that your Apologie Moreover he that mindeth the things recorded of that church 1 Thes. 1 3 6 7 9 c. and the different estate to be seen in your church may soon perceiâ—e their is no lâ—ke cause of joy for you â—s for them that if there be a lâ—ke effeâ—t it is in error The reason of the proposition is no better confirmed by the scriptures you allege For when Chrâ—â—t sayth Iohn 10 27 5. Mâ— sheep hâ—ar my voyce and they will not follow a stranger doeth he send his sheep to other flocks to try their shepheards by or if I see my shepheard to be a thâ—ef a hireling a wolf mâ—st I commit my sowl vnto hâ—m because other shepherds wâ—ll giue him the right hand oâ— fellowship In the other scriptures say nâ—t the Apostles to the particular churches and persons iudge ye what I saâ— try ye thâ— spâ—rit and beleeue not euery spirit But you would not haue our selues to iudâ—e or try but to send over sea and hear what other churches iudge if they apâ—roue we must not disalow You may as wel bid vs. put out our own eyes that other men may lead vs and as soon will we follâ—w you in that as in this your popish counsell We have learned to liue by our own faith and know that every man shall beare hâ—s own bâ—rden and answer for himself to God But you will tell vs if we can iudge and discerne the true church others can doe it also and better I
Anwser THe assumption or 2 part of your argument that such are the Ministers of your best assembliâ—s is denyed for these reasons 1 In Ephes 4. it is sayd He that is Christ gaue but your ministers are giuen by the Bishops and for disobedâ—ence to them are taken away agayn from your parishes Christ never gaue such hirelings 2. The ministers mentioned in Eph. 4 are Apostlâ—s Propets Evangelists Pastors and Teachers Your minâ—sters are none of these but Priests Parsons Vicars c. whose very names besides their offices calling c. shew them to be from Antichrâ—st 3. Your ministers gather not the Saints but persecute and scatter them as we know by experieÌ„ce they gather or keep being gathered a coÌ„fused idolatrous multitude svch as is in their parishes the right way of gathering a church by separation from the world they know not or will not acknowledge 4. They doe not the work of Christs ministery which is aright to dispense the word seales censures c according to the scriptures but the work of Antichrists ministery in reading the service book marying burying churching of women the like as in your Leiturgie other church books are set down 5. They edify not the body of Christ but build and fortify the tower of Babel their confused assemblies which were constituted of ignorant idolatrous papists and other profane the very body of Antichrist but the way of truth and such as walke therein are evill spoken of by your Ministers as their books sermons conferences c dayly shew For all which reasons the right conclusion of your argument should be this that the ministers of your best assemblies are the ministers of Antichrist To proue your assumption you giue vs your bare word saying they do gather the Saints from the reprobats making a manifest separatioÌ„ c. This is to proue the same by the same they doe so because they do so wheras all the world may may see they doe not so For the church of Eng. and parish assemblies thereof from which we haue departed consist of all sorts of persons the ministers stand priests by law to the whole parishes whereof all are partakers of the holy things of God every one baptized c. and can you say they are not then builded in and with your church And for separation we know your priests nor the whole parish cannot excommunicate any be they never so blasphemous wicked or licentious that power is in the Bishops courts And how few are excommunicated for their heresies blasphemies atheisme or wicked life who knoweth not but for wel doing you haue excommunicated many And further if any of your ministers should goe about to make a separation or gather any other churches or assemblies then are already by the lawes of the land established and allowed they are ipso facto excommunicated by force of the Canons of your church made in Anno 1603. Can. 9 11 1â— So still the open wicked remayn edified with the rest in your church there is no such separation as you against all mens knowledge doe pretend Your argument therefore is no better then as if Ieroboams priests should thus haue pleaded Those priests that teach Iacob Gods iudgements and Israel his law that put incense before the face of God and and bâ—rnt offrings vpon his alter are the true priests of God Deut 33.10 But these things doe we therefore we are true priests If you say their assumâ—tion is false the like is sayd of yours and your works plainly proue your assumption most vntrue The 4. Argument THose ministers by whose ministery and preaching the overthrow of the kingdome of Antichrist is effected are the ministers of Christ. But such are the ministers of our best assemblies Ergo the true ministers of Christ The proposition is proued 2 Cor 10 4 5.2 Thes 2.8 Reu 14.6.7.8 18 12. 11 3 11. The assumption is manifest for that the ministers of our best assemblies haue weakned and thrown down and doe still fâ—ght and prevayl against the kingdom of Antichrist by the power of Christ 2. Thes 2 8 and Satan cannot cast out Satan Mark 3.23 Answer THere is no cause or person so bad but many haue store of such arguments as you bring for your ministers wherein you assume take for granted that which is most needful to be proued if we wil not beleeu your bold affirmation contrary to our knowledge and the truth of your estate your ministery hath nothing to justify or confirme it The assumption of this argument I deny for your ministers haue not throwen down Antichrists kingdoâ—e but sought rather to hold it vp Here in sted of due proof you tel vs it is manifest for that the ministers of your best assemblies haue weakned c the kingdome of Antichrist Thus again you prou the saâ—e by the sain say that is manifest which is most obscur vnknown uÌ„to vs to discouer your falsehood I wil briefly shew how the scriptures that you bring for your propositioÌ„ do disprou your assumptioÌ„ The weapons of our warfare sayth the Apostle 2 Cor 10 4 5. are not carnall but mighty through God to cast down holds casting down the imaginations and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God c. But the weapons of your ministers warfare haue been carnal not mightie through God For against the remaynders of Antichrists kingdome among you they haue sued to Parliaments that the arm of fleâ—h might throw down the prelates their courts and corruptions but when the state hath not hearkned to them what haue your ministers done but submitted themselues to their spirituall Lords or at least weise ceased their warfare against them and in their sermons and writings haue turned the edge of theâ—r sword against vs that haue departed from Babylon And what haue they throwen down by their preaching these half hundred yeares Is there any of their Romish abuses that they haue got reformed any one of the rabble of Antichristian officers courts canons c. cast out of the Church Nay themselues now are caâ—t out if they speak or write any more against them as they did in times past Doe not all their people stand still in subiection vnder that Leitourgie prelacie priesthood and popish ecclesiasticall gouernment which were set ouer them at the first They haue warred with the Antichristians as did Israel with the Canaanites when they were mixed among them and learned their works and serued their idols which were their ruine Therefore are these enemies become thornes to the sides and pricks to the eyes of your best ministers and people vexing them in the land wherin they dwel as God did threaten Num. 33 55. So when th' Apostle sayth 2 Thes 2.8 that the Lord shall consume Antichrist with the spirit of his mouth and abolish him with the brightnes of his comming may we not hereby learne that Gods spirit is not in your ministers mouthes seing they
haue not consumed or abolished the Antichristian prelacie and other abominations of that man of sinne nay it is evident they maynten Antichrist for haue they not al receiued their ministery from the prelates promised obedieÌ„ce to their ordinaris yet your preachers wer woÌ„t to say the prelats ar AntichristiaÌ„ Agayn if your ministers had in them the spirit of the Lords mouth they would ere this time haue made a separatioÌ„ from the wicked popish sinful generation for God sayd vnto Ieremie if thou take away the precious from the vile thou shal be as my mouth But this doctrine of separation your ministers wil neyther teach nor suffer to be taught but lock vp the kingdome of heauen as much as they can that men may not enter they blame vs for nothing so much as for separation when nothing is more needfull to be done if we will keep the couenant of our God and maynteyn that war which his own Maiestie first proclaymed between the womans seed and the serâ—ents Gen. 3 15. so vnlike your ministers be to the mouth of God As vnlike they are also to those Angels and witnesses Reu. 18. 14. 11. whâ—ch cried the downfall of Antichrists pompous church and ministerie and called al Gods children out of it saying Goe cut of her my people but your ministers cry that men should tarry within as the potters that contrary to Gods commaundement dwelt with the king of Babel for hâ—s work and such as are gone out they labour to bring back agayne saying that with them is the true doctrine of saluation their errors ar not fundamentall their corruptions abolish not from Christ all reformed churches apâ—roue of theâ—r church and ministery and many such Babilonian songs haue we heard among them And whereas in Reâ— 14 there followed an Angel that with a lowd voyce threatned all those that worshipped the beast and his image and receiued his mark in forehead or in hand your ministers themselues stand vnder that wrath whiles the mark of the beast is so open in theâ—r foreheads by that false ministery of priesthood which they haue receiued from the Bishops whose vnlawfull authority and iurisdiction they submit vnto and teach men to doe the like in whâ—ch respect they cannot excuse themselues from worshipping the Beast seing that hierarchie and prelacy‘ is by the light of Gods word and by the aâ—teâ—tation of the Christian reformed churches and by your own confession heretofore found to be Antichrâ—stian if the Pope be Antiâ—hrisâ— Râ—me be the throne of the Beast Thus men may see that your ministers are far from overthrowing Antichrist kingdome your selfe haue shewed a good reason why Satan cannot cast out Satan The 5. argument THose ministers which are the sauiour of death to the wicked and life to the godly are the true ministers of Christ 1 Cor. 2.16 Such are the ministers of our best assâ—mblies Ergo true ministers of Christ. Answer THis naked argument hath not a ragg to help to couer the falsehood of the aâ—â—umption wherefore â—t may soon be stript and let goe I disprâ—ue that which you haue asâ—umed thâ—s Your minâ—sters are not the saviour of death to the wicked because they suffer them in the bosome of theâ—r church by their sacraments and blessinâ—s confirme them in their sinns doe not excommunicate the profane or vicious liver but let them remayn in mixture with the rest and plead for such a people to be the true church of God They are not the sauour of life to the godly because they preach not the way of lâ—fe trâ—ely by separating from idolaters and idolatry and gathering to a hâ—ly communiâ—n in the faith and obedience of the gospel Bâ—t whileâ— they persecute preach and write against Gods children which prâ—ctise the orâ—inances of his couenant and by fayr pretexts and tolorable reasons seek to draw them back to their confused assembliâ—s they are lâ—ke those whome the Lord reproued thus And will ye pollute me among my people for handâ—uls of barly and fâ—r peeces of bread and to stay the soules of them that should not die and to giue life to the souleâ— that should not liue in lying to my people that heare your lyes Ezek 13.19 The 6. Argument THese ministers that are hated of all men for the sake of Christ are the true ministers of Christ 1 Cor. 4 9 10.11..12.13 2. Cor. 6.4.5 6.8 Mat. 10 â—2 Such are the ministers of our best assemblieâ— Therefore true ministers of Christ. The MINOR is proued for that thâ—y are hated of the most part and of the most evil of all sorts as were the Apostles and desciples of Christ. Consider what I say â—nd the Lord giue thee understanding in all things 2 Tim 2.7 Answer THis your last reason comes al too late and wil help your ministery nothing For by the discussing of your former arguments We haue seen that your ministers câ—nnot proue their office calling or entrance into the sheepfold by Christ neyther administer they according to his testament but after their owne invented leitâ—rgie lawes and Cannons So that if they be hated of all men in respect of their ministery they are not hated for Christs sake seeing they haue none of his ministery hated it may be they ar of many so are Frâ—ars and Monks and the rest of Anti-christs clergie so it is written that the ‡ whore shall be hated made desolate and naked her flesh eaten and shee burned with fyer but it is the cause not the suffering which makes the martyr Whereas therfore your minor is proued by a bare affirmation onely that so it is as is your manner of disputing you must take a better course and proue things otherwise ere we will yield for the Arrian and Anabaptists and all sorts of religion wil Plead that both they and their ministers are hated for Christs sake but every tree is knowne by its fruits Yet haue yea no such cause to complayn of hatred for the ministry of your Church is aproued and reioyced for as your selfe while are sayd of all the forreyn reformed Churches in the world and at home wee know how it is reuerenced honoured and obeyed Your cheifest ministers being acknowledged for spiritual Lords and right reverend Fathers the inferiour priests as sound and excelent Divines followed and flockked after by the people And how they are provided for by rich Bishoppricks fat benefices al ouer the Land besides their dayly intertainment at great and rich mens tables who is there among you that knoweth not These are not signes of hatred Therefore let him that readeth consider indeed what you haue sayd and the Lord giue him vnderstanding in all things O England ISRAEL thy Prophets are like the foxes in the wast places Ezek. 13.4 Positions concerning a true Church INtending to set down some arguments against the corrupt estate of the present church of England I thought it profitable to prefix some few positions as a