they allow of that doctrine proclaming themselves to be the only Saints the holy people and the godly party the generation of the just and separate from their brethren as impure creatures Therefore the Independents do not walk in that old way of righteousnesse the old Puritans of ENGLAND walked in who made no separation in the worst times from the publike Assemblies or ever refused to pray with their Christian brethren and therefore in this point they have not outstripped them nor overgrown them from which I boldly conclude that herein that Predicant did abuse the world in saying that there is no difference between the Independents and the old Puritants of ENGLAND For the old Puritans were humble self denying men and the Independents are pharisaicall boasters of their own holinesse and sanctity and therefore in this their way is not the way of righteousnesse but a great aberration from it Again the old Puritans of England though never so learned and never so sufficiently furnished with all accomplished abilities of divine knowledge which many of them by their indefatigable pains study and industry and by their prayers unto God night and day and by their continuall waiting upon the Ordinances and Gods blessing upon all their endeavours had attained unto so that they were taken notice of by all men both in the Universities and amongst all the learned to be incomparable men many of the which I could name yet not any one of them ever preached either in publike or private without great study and prayer yea and without a speciall call and they alwayes with Saint Paul exercised their Ministery in fear and much trembling 1 Cor. 2. ver 3. saying with him 2 Cor. 2. 16. Who is sufficient for these things Those holy and godly Puritans though transcendently learned yet were always conversant in all holy duties especially in preaching and prayer with fear and trembling thinking themselves never sufficiently enough provided for for those duties And truly Saint Paul's example is worthy alwaies to be looked upon who though he were immediately inspired by God himselfe and had alwayes the assistance of his spirit and ten thousand times more learning then all the Independents put together yet he preached alwayes with fear and trembling and cryed out who is sufficient for these things Now if we compare the Independents and their Predicants with the old Puritans of England we shall find the old Puritans alwaies and in all things imitating the example of holy Paul and the other Apostles in their Ministery which they had a command to follow Phil. 3. ver 17. who intruded not themselves rashly upon the Ministery as the false Apostles and Seducers usually did and as all the Independents and Sectaries daily do they cryed out who is sufficient for these things and how can any preach except he be sent Rom. 10. saying No man taketh this honour unto himself but he that is called of God as Aaron Hebr. 2. 4. Those old Puritans were all men of Saint Paul's spirit they durst do nothing without a call nothing without great study nothing without their parchments and books imitating Saint Paul in this who would alwaies have his parchments with him that is his books bring me my parchments saith he they preached not without fear and trembling this was the continuall practice of the old Puritans they could never be seen in a Pulpit before they had some dayes prepared themselves by prayer and study and yet after all this they would then cry out Who is sufficient for these things Whereas all the Independents and Sectaries assert that every man may preach and every man of them is sufficient and many also hold that women may preach yea and to manifest that they are all sufficient for these things and for the dispensing of the great mysteries of Heaven which the very Angels desired to pry into they run through Town and Country and wheresoever they come get up into the Pulpits and preach with such impudencie impiety and blasphemy as it is not lawfull to name their very doctrines being so destructive to all piety goodnesse and good manners and Ruffian like they go in their hair and apparrel and so insolent and proud they are that one would rather take them for Luciferians then Saints and such unbeseeming expressions they have in their prayers to God as would terrifie a truly consciencious and godly man to hear them as not long since one of them in London publickly speaking unto God in his prayer said Right Honorable Lord God which kind of expressions as they are blasphemous so ridiculous exposing Religion and the sacred Ordinances of God to ludibry and derision But yet this is the dayly practice of the Sectaries through the Kingdome far different from that of the old Puritans of England and therefore in this point of fear and reverence and of an holy awe of Gods divine Majestie and a reverend adoring of the ministery and mystery of the Gospell the way of the Independents is not that either of the holy Apostles or of the old Puritans there being as vast a difference between them as between light and darknesse and therefore the way of Independency in this particular also is not the way of righteousnesse but the way of rebellion and impudency Againe the old Puritans of England had all of them a reverend opinion of all in authority and did ever beleeve that there was no power but of God and that all powers were ordained of God Rom. 13. and they beleeved that every soule ought to be subject to the higher power and that whosoever resisted the power resisted the Ordinance of God and for that their Rebellion they should receive to themselves damnation and they ever believed that every soule ought to be subject unto authority not onely for wrath but also for conscience sake this was the Doctrine of the old Puritans of England and their practice in yeelding continuall obedience to them and praying for them is knowne to all men yea they did acknowledge that as all power was given unto Jesus Christ in Heaven and Earth Matth. 28. Psal 2. so they did beleeve that all power in Church and State was derived from him as the head of all Principalitie and power who had said Prov. 8. 15. 16. By me Kings raigne and Princes decree justice by me Princes rule and Nobles yea all the Iudges of the earth c. this doctrine the old Puritans of England had learned and taught and were obedient unto as having precept upon precept for it as from the words above quoted out of the thirteenth of the Romans so out of 1. Pet. chap. 2. verse 13 14. who said submit your selves to every Ordinance of man for the Lords sake whether it be to the King as supreme or unto Governors as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evill Doers and for the prayse of them that doe well for so is the wâ—ll of God that with well doing yet may
Antitode to it in the same place and for farther answer to your meager and slender detractions take notice that I value not what you or any Adversaries can say concerning my tautologies if handling the same thing often be thought a tautologie with you for this is my resolution that wheresoever and as often as I find an adversary hath a tongue to speake against the truth or a pen to write against it were it an hundred times in the same place or in the same page I will God assisting me answer them upon the place I find them and that instant I will never refer the Reader to what I have said before in any other place concerning that point for I for my part think it a kind of lazinesse to spare any paines in so weighty businesses and things of so high concernment as these are yea I think there is but little zeale in that man that shall hear the truth either often blasphemed or spake against that will not as often stand up in defence of it and contend for it according to command Iud. 3. to his uttermost ability yea it would be a means to perswade unstable men that there were some strength in the Arguments of the enemies or that they are more diligent to sow errors tares then I should be diligent to root them out oppose them if I should not as often reply as they cavil and object therfore for my particular it never troubles me what any of youcan say to me about my tautologies which are not vaine repetitions to any that love often to heare the same truth well confirmed for allthis will but witnesse and declare to all men that I am a carefull man to uphold the truth and to resist gain-sayers besides any man may sooner reade a reply many times then turne to an other place where it was formerly spake of and answered to withall there will in a severall answer to the same objection in an other place be found some variety both for argument and language which many times begets other excellent notions which more and more confirmes men in any truth Besides this hath ever beene Gods owne method which they that are taught of him Iohn 6. ought to imitate often to repeate one and the same Law as what he taught his people in Exodus he often reiterates in the same Booke and not in that only but in Leviticus and Numbers and repeats the whole Law againe in Deuteronomy and that often to the end they might remember it the same may be saidof al the holy Prophets through the whole Bible who often reiterate repeat the same things that the people may not pretend ignorance and this I say is Gods own method and therfore worthy of our imitation yea and Christ himself used this method in his preaching and dictating unto his Apostles by his Holy Spirit who writ foure Evangels of what he hath both done and suffered for us often repeating the same thing yea all the holy Apostles and pen men of holy Writ used the same method as is to be seen through the Acts all their holy Epistles repeating the same things according to their several occasions as when either the same errors sprang up in other places or began to increase where they were so wen and started up yea Paul professeth of himselfe Phil. 3. verse 1. that to him it is not grievous but for them safe to write the same things The same method did Saint Peter use as yee may see in his second Epistle and therefore it is no error in me often to repeate the same things and to inculcate and reinforce the same Arguments especially if it be occasioned by your selves that by this meanes the truth for which I contend may be the more confirmed and errors may be the more confuted and overthrown But withall let mee say thus much unto you by the way that although I am constrained through your vaine tautologies often to handle the same truths yet it is with such variety and in so diverse a way manner and stile as it will not bee grievous or tedious to all those that shall reade it with honest hearts where they will well perceive that what I have answered more briefly in one place I have more fully handled in an other that if it be possible I might give full satisfaction to all docible and ingenuous men that will be satisfyed either with Scripture or reasons Now if in this dispute there be any expressions that may displease any of you you of all men may well excuse them knowing how great your provocations of me have beene especially if you consider that all this contention is for the defence of the truth of God which yee all have sought to corrupt and adulterate with your traditions in whose quarrell and for the maintenance of whose honour it becomes every man to be more zealous and fuller of animosity then for his owne and therefore if I take liberty to speake more freely in shewing the vanity impiety and wickednesse of the Deceivers and Impostors of these times in which we live it is but to use the same method the holy Prophets and blessed Apostles have used against the false teachers of their times who have expressed themselves in language equivalent to whatsoever they shall find in any part of my Booke Yea you your selves if you but looke upon my Brother Burtons Vindication or upon any of his Pamphlets or indeed upon any of your own scriblers in maintenance of your owne vaine errors and novelties or upon Iohn Goodwyn your famous Cretensis or the last Vindication that came out against Reverend Master Edwards you shall find them as full of unsavoury expressions as ever people writ against any men withall writing also with such elated spirits and with so course language as is possible for any men to vent themselves withall they ordinarily beginning and continuing their Pamphlets with pride and ending them with cursing as in that late Vindication appeareth where the Author page the first saith I thought it might not be amisse speaking of learned Master Edwards to spend an houre or two upon this vaine man Here wee find the height of pride insolency and disdaine and in the 30. page he hath these words concerning the same man The Lord rebuke turbulent and violent spirits here he ends with cursing causelessely whereas there is no more turbulent and violent spirits now upon the earth then this of that Author and all those of your fraternity as all their practices and noysome fruitlesse and vilipending scriblings can witnesse who daily write against their Christian Brethren for their zeale to the truth with a greater spirit of pride insolency and elation and with more contempt and disdaine and that out of selfe conceitednesse then ever the Prelates did continually slighting under-valuing and contemning those men they are not worthy for any merit or true learning to be compared with or named the same day they
do they not as they falsly accuse them first prove them to be enemies of Jesus Christ and his Kingdom and not a godly and an honest Presbyterie and then as in duty they are all bound earnestly in the first place seeke to God that he would send faithfull Labourers into his Vineyard and secondly to authority that they would set up an honest and a godly Presbyterie and give unto them full power that they may be as so many Angels to gather out of Christs Kingdom every thing that offends according to the Word of God which all the knowing godly Presbyterians Ministers and people do heartilydesire that so no truly tender consciences may be scandalized this I say were the duty of them all and not to make suppositions needlesse requests to those that have neither power nor authority to doe it But the Independents are so farre from this that they have made it their designe hitherto to hinder the worke of Reformation by raysing up questions continually as being alwayes unsatisfied and by seeking to stirre up the people in their preachings and Pamphlets against the Presbyterians and that meerly to oppose retard and keepe off a setled government in the Church of God saying what haste is there of that and in the meane time they fish in our troubled waters and yet their strongest and most effectuall baits wherewith they allure and catch the poore silly fishes I meane the simple and unstable people is this to tell them that there is not any Church government setled and that as they have waited many years already so they may waite as many more and be as farre off from Discipline and a through Reformation as they now are saying withall if they doe waite to have a Presbyterie set up what if it be not a good one and what if they have not power to gather out of Christs Kingdome every thing that offends affirming that as it is uncomfortable so it is absolutely sinfull to live without the Ordinances which amongst the Saints and none but Beleevers in their Congregations they may injoy Thus whiles the Independents doe labour and endeavour with all their might to oppose the setling of Church government they make the want thereof the most powerfull and prevalent Engine and Argument to draw the people into their way and upon the occasion of these Interrogatories or queries and of these Ifs and An ds of my Brother Burton and his confedertes I shall set downe some of their Independent practises well known to many thousands in this Kingdome besides my selfe by which their ingratitude both to God and men and the restâ—esnesse of these mens spirits will the better appeare to all such as are not blinded with a previous or prejudicated opinion So that all men of discerning spirits by beholding their juglings and unwarrantable proceedings may learne to shun them and to take heed of them and all their by-wayes It is well knowne that in the time of the Prelats power the removall of a very few things would have given great content unto the most scrupulous consciences for I my selfe can speake thus much not only concerning the conscientious Professors here in England but the most rigid Separatists beyond the Seas with many of which I had familiar acquaintance at home and abroad and amongst all that ever I conversed with I never heard them till within these twenty yeares desire any other thing in Reformation but that the Ceremonies might be removed with their Innovations and that Episcopacy might be regulated and their boundlesse power and authority taken from them and that the extravagances of the High Commission Court might be annihilated and made void and that there might through the Kingdom be a preaching Ministery every where set up This was all that the most that I was then acquainted with desired in the Reformation of Church matters Indeed within this sixteene yeares I met with some that desired a more full Reformation and yet if they might have injoyed but that I now mentioned they would have beene very thankfull to God and authority and have sate downe quietly But yet I say the extreamest extent of their desires reached but to the removall of all the Ceremonies and Innovations the taking away of the Service Booke and the putting downe of the High Commission Court which was called the court Christian though it was rather Pagan and the removall of the Hierarchy root and branch and the setting up and establishing of a godly Presbyterie through the Kingdome this was I say all and the uttermost Reformation that was required by the most scrupulous men then living that I knew yea I can speake thus much in the presence of God that Master Robinson of Leiden the Pastor of the Brownist Church there told mee and others who are yet living to witnesse the truth of what I now say that if hee might in England have injoyed but the liberty of his Ministry there with an immunity but from the very Ceremonies and that they had not forced him to a subscription to them and imposed upon him the observation of them that hee had never separated from it or left that Church This I can depose so that all men may see the very dispensing with the ceremonies would then have given great content to the most austere professors how much more may any man suppose would they have sate down satisfied if but the very ceremonies then might have bin removed Surely if the Prelats had not beene infatuated and had they but in those things a little connived and would have abated somewhat of their rigour for ought I know they might have never been questioned but they might have injoyed all their honours and greatnesse and whatsoever they could have desired and that with the good liking of all the people had they I say but dispensed with those needlesse vanities and had they but favoured honest and godly Ministers and set up Lights I meane good Preachers in the darke places and corners of the Kingdome they would have beene beloved and reverenced of all men and no man would have envied their Magnificence yea I am most assured had they but favoured good and godly men the whole Kingdome would have beene their friends and whereas they all at last petitioned against them they would have supplicated in their behalfe that they might still have continued in their authority But through their owne pride and from an ambition of Lording it over their brethren and by their tyrannicall practices and licentious living they have brought confusion upon themselves and beene one of the principall causes of all the miseries and distractions and of all the blood-shed that the three Kingdomes are now involved with and for ought I can discerne our Independent Predicants now treading in their steps and seeking to be the sole and onely men and to set up their new government which is more groundlesse then that of the Prelates if the Lord of his infinite power and goodnesse prevent
worship for here in expresse words the place where they met is specified and it is said to be the Temple I appeale to the wisdome of any learned man or but of a rationall Christian whether this be a candid or ingenuous way of arguing That because 3000. Christians that were newly converted might meet together in the Temple of Jerusalem Ergo all that believed in Jerusalem that were converted by Iohn the Baptist and all that believed by Christs ministery and miracles and all that were converted by the Apostles and the seventy Disciples before Christs sufferings and all that were after his Resurrection converted for twenty years together by the Ministry of all the Apostles and all the other Ministers of the Gospell they might yet all meete in any one place or Congregation to partake in all acts of worship and to edification I refer this I say to the consideration of any Learned man or any intelligible Christian whether this be an ingenuous way of arguing I believe if one should argue against them after the same manner they would laugh at him If one should thus dispute Within these seven years all the Independents continued daily with one accord in such a place and they all met together in one congregation Ergo there is but one congregation and but one Church still of Indeperdents in London and they all meet together in one congregation Would not the Brethren make themselves as merry with such a way of disputing as they have made others sad with their way of arguing yes doublesse The truth is their way of arguing is not to their owne honour to speake but favourably of it as will appeare For should I grant unto them that at that time this place of Scripture speakes of there had beene no more Believers in Ierusalem but those hundred and twenty names specified in the first Chapter of the Acts and these three thousand new Converts and accord also unto them that all these did meet together in on place and in one congregation and did partake in all the Ordinances which notwithstanding I cannot grant them for divers reasons for in the same place it is said That although they continued daily in the Temple yet they brake bread from house to house that is to say some of them did daily meet to hear the Word in the Temple and then followed their severall imployments and others in private and they had the holy Communion or Sacrament in severall houses from which it is manifestly evident that then when there were newly added to the Church but three thousand Believers they had many and severall congregations and assemblies and without all doubt as the multitudes of Believers increased they were still distributed into more congregations for it is said They brake bread from house to house that is they had their assemblies and meetings in severall houses and places besides the Temple and in those severall houses they had not only the preaching of the Word and Prayer but the administration of the Sacrament and communicated in all the Ordinances which they could not do in the Temple as afterward will appeare and all that I now say is evident from the 41. Verse of the same Chapter to the 47. But I say should I silence my own reason and suffer it to speake nothing and should I grantto our Brethren that there were but three thousand and that these three thousand Believers might all meet in one congregation and partake in all the ordinances to edification would it follow that when ten thousand were added unto them and twenty thousand more to them and thirty thousand more to all these would any may think or believe that ten thousand men can meete in one congregation to edifie and to partake in all the Ordinances much lesse when there is so many thousands more added to them that they could still meete in any one place or congregation I thinke no man that hath not abdicated his understanding will so conclude So that all men may see not onely the weaknesse of this argumentation but the strength of truth For this very weapon with which they had thought to have defended themselves and wounded the Truth they wound themselves and overthrow their own tenent as God willing I shall more fully by and by make appear But out of Chap. 5. our Brethren conceive they have a very strong and invincible Argument where it is related That after Ananias and Saphira were miraculously taken away for lying unto the Spirit of God It is said That great feare came upon all the Church and upon as many as heard these things And by the hands of the Apostles were many signes and wonders wrought among the people and they were all with one accord in Solomons Porch Ergo say they the number of Believers in Ierusalem was not so great but that they might all meet together in one congregation for the place where they did meet is set downe viz. in Solomons Porch and it is further specified That they were all with one accord in that place This is their Argument faithfully and truly set downe and with the best advantage for their cause But to speake the truth this kinde of arguing hath no force in it neither doth it beseem grave men to trifle thus in the matters of God and Religion For should I grant unto them that all the Beleivers that then were in Ierusalem and had been converted by Iohn the Baptist and by Christ and all his Disciples before the Passion and Sufferings of the Lord Iesus Christ and the three thousand converted by the first Miracle and Sermon of Peter after they had received the gift of the Holy Ghost and the five thousand after by the second Miracle and Sermon and after the new additions of so many multitudes of Believers both of men and women by reason of the miracle wrought upon Ananias and Saphira his Wife and the other miracles that the fifth Chapter speaketh of should I say grant that all these might yet have met in one place and in any one congregation to communicate in all the Ordinances which all reason forbids me to yeild to will it follow that when there were additions upon additions and that of multitudes of Believers that they might still meet in any one congregation to edification and have communicated in all acts of worship For in all reason we may conceive had we no testimony out of the holy Scripture to back it that if eight thousand were converted besides multitudes both of Men and Women with a few Miracles and Sermons and if at the first Preaching of the Gospell after the Resurrection there was such a great encrease and such a multiplication of Christians all understanding I say perswades that in the space of twenty years there will be innumerable multitudes added daily to the Church when the miraculous working of wonders with the same doctrine still continued and with all the same reason will dictate to any man That
Jerusalem then before for although I should grant that this persecution was very great in respect of the intention of the persecutors as reaching to imprisonment and death of all sorts chap. 22. verse 4. and although I should likewise accord that in regard of the extent of it it reacheâ—h to all sorts both Preachers and Christians because it is said They were all scattered abroad through all the Regions c. except the Apostles both which notwithstanding I cannot yeeld unto for some reasons following but I say should I grant all this yet I affirme that this persecution rather made more Congregations in Ierusalem then fewer then there were before though they might be smaller and lesser then so to wast them and bring them to such a paucity as they might all meet in one Congregation for this their division was a cause of their multiplication at home and abroad as I said before and will afterwards appear And even as it was here in England in the time of the Prelates power when any assembly of those they called Puritans were at any time found together they were haled before Authority as the whole Kingdome can witnesse and these people were all scattered yet so as they still had their meetings in lesse numbers and whereas before they met perhaps a hundred in a company now this hundred was divided into three or four severall assemblies which were so many severall Churches for in all these they enjoyed all the acts of worship and did partake in all the Ordinances as fully as if they had been in the most crowded assemblyes but this they did for their own safety and that there might not be such notice taken of them for commonly if men see a good company of people goe into a house and none of them come out again they will by and by gather that there is something there to be done more than ordinary and that there is some exercise of Religion or some consultation and plotting about some designe or other and therefore it stirs up the people to take more notice of it and then they begin to examine the occasion of that concourse and to pry into their proceedings whereas if they come but in slender companies they conceive it to be some ordinary entertainment and think no farther of it so that they then more peaceably enjoy the society and fellowship one of another without any interruption which they could not so well have done if they had come in greater assemblies and companies And even so it was among the Beleevers and Christians in Ierusalem in that persecution they could not now meet in the Temple nor possibly at their wonted meeting houses and yet even then they had their assemblies no terrours could make them forsake the companying of themselves together For in that persecution that is spoken of in the 12. of the Acts we finde the Church assembled in severall places for they were praying in the house of Mary verse 12. there was one Congregation to which Peter comes and relates unto them the manner of his delivery and bids them go and tell it James and the brethren and there was another assembly and without doubt Peter went unto a third for he would not goe among the enemies and it stands with all reason that in this persecution also they were as zealous as then and therefore did not forsake the assembling of themselves together Neither would the Apostles be idle who gave themselves continually to prayer and the ministring of the Word which they could not have done if there had been but as many Christians in Ierusalem as could all have met in one place and in one Congregation for one or two of the Apostles could have preacht unto them all and then to what end or purpose did all the other Apostles tarry in Ierusalem who in all their motions and stayes were directed by the Spirit of God unlesse it were to comfort and support the Church there in the heat and rage of this persecution when they had scattered their other teachers from them From all which it may evidently appear that there was a very great multitude of beleevers at this time in Ierusalem and that they were not diminished or scattered though all their Pastors and Ministers saving the Apostles were And I have very good reason to induce me to beleeve That this persecution did not extend to all Christians promiscuously and that all the Beleevers were scattered and disperst except the Apostles as our brethren conceive For if wee consider the usuall method of the persecuting Jews and the manner and custome of all the enemies of the Church in all ages wee shall ever observe that they chiefely aymed at the taking away and extirpating of their teachers and Ministers and those that instructed them So the Iews malice was greatest against the Prophets in all ages as we may see Matth. the 5. verse the 12. For so they persecuted the Prophets and in the 23. of Matthew our Saviour saith verse 29. Woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees hyprocrites because ye build the tombes of the Prophets and say if we had lived in the dayes of our Fathers wee would not have been partakers with them of the blood of the Prophets and therefore ye witnesse unto your selves that ye are the children of them which killed the Prophets Wherefore behold I send unto you Prophets and wise men and Scribes and some of them you shall kill and crucifie c. Here our Saviour Christ declares what method they had formerly used in their persecutions and that was chiefely to persecute their teachers and what method they would for the future take and that was principally To kill and crucifie the Prophets Wisemen and Scribes which Prophesie of Christ was here in this persecution manifestly fulfilled for here it is said They were all viz. their teachers scattered abroad and persecuted except the Apostles It was I say ever the method and custome of persecutors to ayme principally at the rooting out and taking away of those they supposed were ablest to teach and instruct the people and this enraged them against Iohn the Baptist and Christ himselfe and that made them at this time so mischievously to persecute their Ministers and Teachers Neither do I read in all the New Testament before thss persecution that as yet they were come to the massacring of the common people they had slain the Lord of Life and stoned Stephen and after in the 12. of the Acts we read How Herod slew James and because it pleased the Jews he proceeded to take Peter they alwayes had their eyes upon their teachers and haled them to prison as they did Peter and Iohn in the 4. of the Acts but for the people the onely punishment they under-went till this persecution was this That they were cast out of the Synagogues if any of them did publickly professe Christ Indeed in this persecution their violence extended to the haling of men and women to prison
not despise But for all such as pharisaically boast themselves of their own righteousnesse God will despise and resist especially when they come far short of the Pharisees righteousnesse who fasted ordinarily twice or thrice a week and gave tythes of all they had and were very bountifull and charitable to the poor and did many other things praise worthy whereas all the Il-dependents are so far from giving tythes of all they have as they would not willingly that any other should give them writing books to the contrary and that bitter ones and for the many other acts of holinesse in the Pharisees as fasting deeds of charity the world knows they are not so frequent in them towards their poor brethren that dissent from them but in running from sea to land and from one place to another to make Proselytes and seduce the people they are very like the Pharisees and in boasting and glorying of their own righteousnesse in this they â—qualise if not exceed the Pharisees and Justiciaries of old and if they repent not God will have a controversie against them for God resists the proud and will give grace unto the humble and in the 30 of the Proverbs ver 72. God saith there That there is a generation pure in their own eyes and yet they are not purged from their filthynesse Gods people were ever humble but the Il-dependents are not as will by and by appeare in the sequell The third part now to be proved viz. That the Il-dependents do both falsly and pharisaically boast themselves when they call themselves the pretious and holy servants of God c. Now that they boast and glory of their own holinesse and that they are the onely people and the godly party all that are acquainted with their language and have heard their Sermons and have seen their books can bear witnesse with me of the truth of that I now charge them with neither can the Il-dependents themselves deny it And that they falsly glory and boast of their own righteousnesse holinesse and sanctity is my taske now to prove which by the grace of God I will do running through all and every severall branch of their gloriations And to begin with the first when they call themselves the onely pretious servants of God and the godly party in this their glorying I say they as falsly as Pharisaically boast which will evidently appear if we duly examine who in Gods dialect are a holy people and the onely holy servants of God In the 1 of the Corinthians chap. 7. ver 34. The Apostle there describes who are the holy people they saith he are such as care not for the things of the world but for the things of the Lord how they may be holy in body and spirit They were such as being bought with a price studyed how they might glorifie God in their bodyes and in their spirits which were the Lords 1 Cor. 6. ver 20. And how they might cleanse themselves from all filthynesse of the flesh and spirit perfecting holinesle in the fear of God 2 Cor. 7. ver 1. The holy servants of the Lord are such as present their bodies a living sacrifice holy acceptable unto God as their reasonable service and that from the consideration of Gods great mercyes unto them Rom. 12. ver 1. They pressed toward the mark to the high calling of God in Jesus Christ Phil. 3. 14. Whose conversation was in Heaven ver 20. Those Saints minded not earthly things but being contented with food and rayment they esteemed godlinesse the greatest gain 1 Tim. 4. Gold and silver saith Peter I have none Acts 3. He studied onely to be holy and regarded not the world The life of all the godly and holy party was above in heaven according to that of Solomon Prov. 10. They were not groveling upon the earth nor regarded not the things of this life they were changed from that they were before they were now no longer conformable to this world but they were transformed by the renewing of their mind that they might prove what is that good that acceptable will of God Rom. 12. ver 2. According to that of Paul Eph. 23. 24. They were renewed in the spirit of their mind they had put on the new man which after God is created in righteousnesse and true holinesse Yea they were renewed in knowledge after the Image of him that created them Coloss 3. ver 10. In a word all the truly holy and godly party have an universall change wrought in them their understandings witts and affections are changed they are all heavenly the whole frame of their lives and conversations are changed they are all heavenly so that they by all their actions declare they are such as really minde nothing but heavenly things they are mortified men they seeke not great things nor they intangle not themselves with earthly businesses they onely mind heavenly things where Christ sitteth at the right hand of God Coloss 1 2 3. No sooner was Levi called from the receipt of custome but hee relinquished and left the world and followed Christ The same did Zacheus distributing that hee had liberally to the poore and manifesting to the world by giving full satisfaction to all men that could say they were damnified by him that now hee minded nothing but heavenly things the things of the Lord how he might be holy in body and spirit which were the Lords and this was the practise of all the holy servants of God in all ages they were heavenly minded lowly humble meeke they were of one mind having compassion one of an other they loved as brethren they were pittifull and courteous they rendred not evill for evill or rayling for rayling but contrariwise blessing knowing that they were thereunto called that they should inherit a blessing they refrayned their tongues from evill and their lips spake no guile they eschewed evill and did good they sought peace and ensued it 1 Pet. 3. verse 8 9 10 11. they loved without dissimulation they abhorred that which was evill and cleaved to that which was good in honour they preferred one an other Romans 12. verse 9. in Lowlinesse of mind they esteemed of others better then themselves Phil. 2. ver 2. 3. they wete all heavenly minded men who regarded no worldly things neither doe we ever reade in all the sacred Scriptures that any of the holy Prophets or Saints of old were taken up with the world or aspired to the Honours and Dignities of the same but chose rather to suffer affliction with the people of God then to injoy the pleasures of sinne for a while yea they esteemed the reproach of Christ greater riches then all the treasures of Egypt they chose rather to wander about in deserts in sheeps skins and goats skins naked despised and contemned in the caves and dens of the beasts of the earth then to dwell in the greatest affluency of worldly things they slighted all the world and all the Glory of it
may we suppose were then in the Church at Ierusalem when many more great congregations and Assemblies of Beleevers were dayly added to that Church and when the holy Word of God in expresse termes in the 21. chap. of the Acts saith There were many ten thousands of beleevers there without all controversie there must needs at that time be a mighty many of Assemblies and Congregations and yet in the very infancy of it and when there were but five thousand beleevers as my brother Burton and Saint Hanserdo do both witnesse they then had divers Assemblies and Congregations and communicated in severall private houses and brake bread from house to house that is to say in every house And therefore I have now great hope that not onely Mr Knollys will confesse the brethren have acknowledged That there were many Congregations and Assemblies of beleevers in the Church of Ierusalem but that Sir I. S. his scrupulous conscience also will be satisfied about this point especially when it commeth ratified not onely by Scripture but by the testimony and witnesse also of my brother Burton and Saint Hanserdo But if Sir I. S. shall still persevere in the error of his wayes and shall be so far from beleeving that there were many Congregations and Assemblies of beleevers in the Church of Ierusalem as he will yet swear there were no more Saints there then could or did dayly all meet in one place or congregation then I will conclude of him that he is a gentleman very fit to be made a Knight of the post whether I send him to be whipped out of his grolleries Having for the gratifying Mr Knollys and Sir I. S. and for the undeceiving of all cordiall and well affected Christians and such as desire to know the truth been the more large in this controversie I shall now refer my selfe and all that I have said concerning my first and second propositions to the judgement of every indifferent Reader whether I have not sufficiently proved not onely that there were many congregations of beleevers in the Church at Jerusalem but that it is likewise acknowledged by the brethren that there were many Assemblies of them there if any credit may be given either to my brother Burton or to Saint Hanserdo and if they shall judge that I have sufficiently proved it both from Scripture and Reason and from the testimony of two prime witnesses of the Independent party against whom there can be no just exception by any of the Congregationall way they being of their own fraternity Mr Henry Burton and Saint Hanserdo by name I shall again challenge Mr Knollys his promise who hath ingaged himselfe That if I could by the expresse word of Scripture evince there were many congregations of beleevers in the Church at Jerusalem that he would relinquish his grollish opinion of Independency Now therefore when I have done it both by Scripture and the two witnesses above specified I say again I challenge his promise and if he notwithstanding all I have writ will not abandon this his error I shall never esteem him to be either a man of faith or common honesty and shall for ever hereafter proclaim both himself and all such teachers as he is fighters against God and his truth and resisters of his holy Spirit and such as withhold the truth from the people in unrighteousnesse And so I conclude this second Proposition and come now to see what they have to say to the third My third Proposition is this viz. That the Apostles and Presbyters Governed Ordered and Ruled this Church consisting of many congregations and Assemblies by a common Councell and Presbytery This is my third Proposition which is evident out of many places of the Acts and sundry other places of holy Writ some of which with my Arguments I shall here relate in order as they were first set down in my book called Independency not Gods Ordinance the which Mr Knollys I. S. and my brother Burton indeavoured to Answer unto And after I have faithfully related the Arguments I deduced from those severall Scriptures by which I then made good my third Assertion I shall also truely set down the Answer of Hanserdo Knollys and I. S. to all those Arguments The places therefore of Scripture with my Arguments gathered from thence are these following Acts 11. 27. And in those dayes there came Prophets from Ierusalem to Antioch and there stood up one of them named Agabus and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth through all the world which came to passe in the dayes of Claudius Caesar then the Disciples every man according to his ability determined to send reliefe unto the brethren that dwelt in Iudaea which also they did and sent it to the Presbyters by the hands of Barnabas and Saul Here in these last words we see that the Presbyters and none but the Presbyters received the Almes for it is said They sent it to the Presbyters by the hands of Barnabas and Saul which sufficiently proveth That the Presbyters in all Churches were the men in government as who had the Ordering and authority of appointing unto the Deacons how they should distribute those monyes that they might be best improved and disposed of which is an act of government as all men that know what belongs unto government will acknowledge Now should it be granted that these Presbyters here spoken of were the Presbyters of Iudaea which notwithstanding is not specified but onely the distressed brethren in Iudaea yet had it been in expresse words set down That the Almes had been sent to the Presbytery of Judaea the Presbytery of Ierusalem must necessarily have been included in it as being the Metropolis of Iudea and it was an ordinary thing for the Churches that were abroad and particularly that of Antioch to send to the Apostles and Presbyters of Ierusalem as we may see Act. 11. ver 22. and Act. 15. And by all probability Paul and Barnabas brought these Almes to the Presbyters of Ierusalem for he in the fifteenth chapter of his Epistle to the Romans maketh mention of a contribution that was made in Macedonia and Achaia for the poor Saints in Jerusalem Whether the Apostle saith he was going to Minister unto them and desired the Romans to pray for him that he may be delivered from the unbeleeving Jews and that his service for Jerusalem might be accepted of the Saints which by the learned Interpreters is generally taken that Paul speaketh of this time and that they were then sent to Ierusalem from Antioch But howsoever it should be understood that these almes were sent to the Presbyters in Iudea yet these two conclusions necessarily result from it The first that this expression comprehends also the Presbyters of Ierusalem as being the chiefe City of Iudea The second that the Presbyters in all Churches were the men to whom the government and ordering of businesses was committed and in whose hands the power and authority lay of
Apostles and not as Members for that present of the Presbytery of Antioch now all men know that they that are sent as Messengers by command and appointment as they were were not greater then those that sent them which is one of the reasons all orthodox Divines use against Peters Supremacy in that the Apostles which were in Ierusalem Acts 8. 14. sent him and Iohn to Samaria and therefore they conclude that the Colledge of Apostles had authority over him and that they were not subject to him And the same may be concluded concerning Paul and Barnabas that they were subject to the command of the Church And it is yet more evident out of the second verse of the 15 chapter of the Acts Where it is said that when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissention disputation with them that then they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Ierusalem unto the Apostles and Elders about this question out of the which words every one may observe these conclusions following First that Paul and Barnabas used not any transcendent extraordinary and Apostolicall authority in that Church neither did they challenge unto themselves an infallible authority for the deciding of that difference which they might have done if they had then and there acted as Apostles and put forth their Apostolicall power yea which is more it is in terminis said that Paul and Barnabas had no small dissention and disputation with them intimating by those words that they argued and debated the matter by Reasons and Arguments as the other ordinary Presbyters of that Church did which they would never have suffered if they had acted there as Apostles and with an infallible authority and this is the first conclusion may be gathered out of those words to prove that Paul Barnabas acted there as ordinary Presbyters and were not onely at that time subject to that Church but Members of the same The second conclusion that may be gathered out of those words is this That they were sent as the other ordinary officers and the same commands laid upon them that were laid upon the other Now if they of Antioch had looked upon Paul and Barnabas as extraordinary Messengers indued with Apostolicall authority they would have made some difference between them and the certain others spake of in that place but sending them all with equall authority and with one and the same Message and making no distinction between them it sufficiently proveth that they of Antioch in this imploiment lookt upon them but as ordinary Presbyters The third thing observable is this that Paul and Barnabas with those certain others were sent as well to the Elders or Presbyters at Ierusalem about the question as to the Apostles for so runs the text they were all sent unto as having equal authority and as the ordinary Governours and Councellours of the Church and as to such as sat by one and the same Commission Writ or Charter and governed with a joynt consent and by a Common Councel and Agreement And therefore they are all to be considered as ordinary Presbyters in that Councel and Synod and all this I say may be gathered out of that text But there are many other Arguments to prove it because the Presbyters all of them and that all along through the whole debate acted as authoritatively as the Apostles For as the Presbyters were sent unto as well as the Apostles and assembled themselves accordingly v. 6. So they did decree and write the Epistle as well as the Apostles ver 22. 23. and Act. 16. 4. they are called also the decrees of the Apostles and Elders and Act. 21. the Presbyters say Wee have written and concluded manifesting unto all the World that they in that Synod sat and acted by the same authority and were assisted and guided by the same spirit the Apostles were as sitting by the same Commission or Writ And therefore when the holy Ghost makes no difference between them in respect of their authority but only in regard of their names it is a very great rashnesse in Mr Knollys and those of his fraternity to say that the Apostles acted not as Presbyters which is indeed to confute the Scripture and all this to delude the poore people Many Arguments more might be produced to prove that the Apostles acted as Presbyters and were no more then guided by an Apostolicall and infallible spirit then the other Presbyters but for brevity sake I shall only name one more which is this in that they stated the question and debated it from the holy Scripture in the ordinary way disputing Con and Pro arguing and reasoning what they should write and what they should judge of that busines as it is apparent in the 7. verse and many more places in that Chapter by their deliberate suffrages and discourses in that Councell and having by searching the Scripture saith the Holy Ghost found what was the good and acceptable will of God thereupon they say it seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us as any Synod or Councell of Divines upon the like assurance of Scripture warrant may doe Now I affirme had the Apostles at that time acted by an apostolicall and infallible Spirit a when they writ the holy Scripture and not as Presbyters they would never have admitted any disputation nor entred into a serious debate and consultation what they should write and judge of that matter but would speedily have dispatched the busines and by their Apostolicall authority and that infallible Spirit they were led with they would have decided the matter and either have said thus saith the Lord as the Prophets of old did or take notice that what wee write are the commands of the Lord dictated unto us by the Spirit of God and would never have gone to consult with others about it or debated the matter by Arguments and reasons which when they did it is a sufficient Argument to prove that the Apostles acted as Presbyters in that Councel and therfore from all that I have now said it is apparently evident that all the Apostles at Ierusalem acted as Presbyters and that the other Presbyters had equall authority and power with them notwithstanding all Master Knollys his bable And this shall suffice to have spake by way of answer to that part of his fond cavill and now I come to reply to his Grolleries concerning the votes and suffrage of the people in the Church at Ierusalem whom Master Knollys joyneth with the Apostles and Elders and makes them equall with the Elders in authority misconceiving what is meant by brethren there his words are these page 13. The Doctor saith hee might have also considered that the Brethren even the whole Church the multitude how many soever the Doctor can make of them were present as well as the Presbyters Act. 15. 4. 12. 22 23. 25. 27 28. and so have made the Brethren the multitude even the whole Church independent also
all resolved to have the liberty of their consciences or else they would make use of their swords which they have already in their hands So that most certain it is the Religion of too too many of them is a meer faction c. Now what these two have affirmed can be corroborated by other witnesses and if in your account he be an Incendiary that in detestation thereof hath set down their words by way of repetition to discover the danger of permitting such lawlesse spirits to go on in their unwarrantable wayes what great Incendiartes are they that have imagined such things in their hearts and boldly spoken those words with their mouths For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh Matth. 12. 34. Luke 6. 45. as it can be proved Independents have done and so much the two witnesses you spake of said and no more for they accused not that Army which God hath honoured with many Crowns of admirable Victories c. But you say they cast fiery flashes and flames which do fly in the face of that Army c. Truly this is no other but a false Comment made by your selfe from which you draw an evill inference and then you cry out as a man overcome with passion saying these words are not to be born but I leave say you the judgement thereof to the wisdome and justice of the Parliament whose former freeing of you extends not to cleare your words from being Incendiary Thus farre you Brother I professe I am heartily sorry to see that you my Quondam Fellow Sufferer should so much forget your selfe as not only bitterly unworthily and most falsly thus to inveigh against mee but also to insinuate into the Parliament as if they could not manifest their wisdome and justice except they passe their judgement and censure me according to your bill of Information This violent prosecution and your Canterburian expressions make not me alone but all other solid Christians wonder at your spirit for you may please to call to mind how one once professed he would not passe any sentence against You my Brother Prynne and My selfe but left us as he said to the wisdome and justice of the Court which was in the judgement of all that heard his whole speech to pronounce us so highly guilty that if the Lords there present did not severely censure us they would shew themselves neither wise nor just This president you have exactly followed against me but it will never Crown your head with honour and for the Parliament it is their glory to slight troublesome informers for should they hearken to every information invented and drawn up by the unsatisfied and turbulent spirits of some Independents it would cloud their wisdome and totally eclipse the shining of their Justice in our Horizon But you cannot there obtain an Order to have your Bill taken pro confesso and gain so much of the Parliament that I should not answer for my selfe therefore I may and will speak for my selfe in my just defence and shew how unjustly you have accused me And here I deny your Charg in every particular circumstance But before I returne my answer thereunto you having given me such a Theam to speak upon as the due acknowledgement of Gods goodnesse in raising us up deliverers when City and Country were sorely afflicted and heavily oppressed on every side in speaking of Gods providentiall care and severall actings in way of mercy to his people I cannot omit by way of thankfulnesse to God and men to declare how that in the first place City and Country are deeply ingaged for ever next unto divine goodnesse to honour and highly esteem those Lords Knights Gentlemen and Citizens who in the beginning of the Kingdomes troubles like the Governours of Israel and the Princes of Issachar did offer themselves willingly among the people Judges 5. 9. 15. whos 's very appearing in the cause was then of such concernment that as it made the hearts of all who were truly godly to praise God for them so thereby God made them the preservative of City and Country Insomuch that upon serious consideration we shall find that those Noble Lords and all those brave Commanders that adhered to them who as Zebulon and Napthali jeoparded their lives unto the death in the high places of the field and exposed themselves to reproach Judges 5. 18. are not to be over lookt and their gallant undertakings obscured under a Sable cloud of unthankfulnesse nor to be buried in the grave of Oblivion For when the Kingdome was in greatest danger then God made use of them to preserve Citie and Countrey raysing an Army by Land and setting forth a Navie at sea under the commands of the Right Honourable thrice Illustrious Faithfull Valiant and for ever to be highly honoured Lords Robert Earle of Essex and Robert Earle of Warwicke whom hee made by sea and land instrumentall for the good and welfare of the Kingdome and the truth is at this day neither preservation nor safety could have beene expected in Citie and Countrey as things then stood had not these two Renowned Lords and Heroes so nobly and undauntedly appeared in the cause undertaken the charge and care upon them one to be Admirall of the Navie at sea the other to be Generall of the Parliaments forces by Land For this their undertaking was in such a juncture of time that had they out of selfe respects declined it unlesse the Lord by a miracle had withstood and over-throwne our enemies Citie and Countrey in all probability long before this time would have beene over-run and possessed by them and no man should now have had peace in his going out or comming in But by the valour vigilancie and faithfulnesse of our then Noble Admirall our Seas were safe-guarded by which meanes forraine enemies were awed home-bred enemies weakened by surprizing many Ships Armes Ammunition Instruments and Preparations for warre which were sent over into England for the destruction of Citie and Countrey besieged Townes were by him relieved as Lyme Plymouth c. So that God made that Noble Lord by Sea the preservative of Citie and Countrey which lay open ready to be destroyed by cruell and bloody enemies And as the Earle of War wicke by Sea so had not the Earle of Essex being Generall of the Parliaments Armies by Land beene an experienced Commander faithfull to their cause and with a most Heroick and undaunted courage stood to the Battle at Edge-hill when by report whole Regiments ran away and through feare deserted him there now would have beene no safety in Citie and Countrey What had become of Citie and Countrey when Bristow was lost aud Gloucester closely besieged which though it was a long time even beyond expectation valiantly maintained by Colonell Massie the then Governour thereof that ever to be honoured Gentleman had it not by the care and valour of that Noble Lord beene seasonably relieved it could not possibly have held longer out
but must have beene delivered up unto the Enemie and have beene made a prey for the Spoylers and then what peace or safetie would Citie or Countrie have injoyed In a word what had become of Citie and Countrie if that Army under his command and so gallantly incouraged by him had not incountered the enemies of our peace and through Gods mercie victoriously discomfited their Forces severall times as at Newbury and at other places Truly it is by all that will not manifest to the whole world that they are ungratefull to God and unthankefull to men ever to bee acknowledged that the Earle of Essex the Earle of War wicke with those gallant Commanders and Citizens in that Armie and Navie commanded by them deserve the first place of honour to be our preservers some of whose names I shall by and by set downe though I can never sufficiently set forth their praises and their merits and to these many other worthy Generals must bee added with all those gallant Officers and Commanders under them who commanded severall Armies Regiments and Companies by Commissions from the Earle of Essex as the Right Honourable thrice Illustrious Faithfull Valiant and for ever to be highly honoured Lord. Edward Earle of Manchester The Earle of Denby The Earle of Stanford The Earle of Peterborrow Generall of the Ordnance at Keinton The Lord Robert Lord Martiall of the field The Lord Fairfax and his son Sir Thomas Fairfax his Excellencie now Captaine Generall of the Forces raysed by the Parliament The Lord Gray The Lord Willoughby Sir William Waller Major Generall Sir Arthur Haslerig Sir William Brereton Sir William Balfour Generall of the Horse Sir John Merrick Generall of the Ordnance Sir Philip Stapleton Lievetenant Generall of the Ordnance Sir Samuel Luke Colonell Governour of Newport-Pannell Sir Robert Pye Collonel Sir Edward Dods-worth Knight Commissary Generall for the Musters of the Cavallary with the Earle of Essex Lord Generall His Excellencie Sir Iohn Gell. Sir Edward Peatoe Lievtenant Generall of the Ordnance at Keinton Sir Iohn Meldrum Collonel Major Generall Skippon Collonel Massie Collonel Hollesse Collonel William Davis Collonel Iames Sheefeild Collonel Thomas Shefeild Collonel Richard Graves Collonel Dolbier Collonel Brown Collonel Essex slaine at Keinton Collonel Morgan Collonel More Collonel Rossiter Collonel King Collonel Poyns Collonel Terrell Collonel Dodson Collonel Goodwin Major Hercules Langerish All these and many hundreds more whose names are unknown to mee none of the which were then Independents yet whose fame for their noble chivalry and gallantry in all their imployments will live when Mortality is dead and truly for every one of these I have by name set downe they are all of them men accomplished for all heroicall vertue and such as of whom severally for their most excellent service and severall engagements even in difficultest times I could make a large Discourse and yet that would not sufficiently set forth their due prayses for these first Actors under-went the heate of the day and by their valour quelled the Enemy as I have heard the Cavaliers themselves acknowledge and therefore all those noble Heroes and gallant Commanders as I said before have all of them primary right to that title Isay 58. 12. to be called the Repairers of the breach the restorers of our pathes to dwell in for as much as when we were in great fears and unavoydable ruin did seem to threaten both Church and State then God moved all their hearts to appear in his cause and made them the preservative of City and Country Whose undertakings performances faithfulnesse valour and Noble prowesse ought to be predicated and recorded that future generations may know their deliverers and admire Gods goodnesse who gave them magnanimous spirits to appear and expose themselves to danger for the Kingdomes safety in such a time when the people were generally secure ignorant of the miseries that were like to befall them and their posterity and so deluded with promises and protestations that the greater part in most Counties withstood their own good the peace and welfare of Church and State And when the men in England lived delicately and had been so long dandled in the lap of peace that very few none in comparison had ever seen the formidable face of a reall fighting Army nor had ever beheld the furious countenance of bloody war whilst she encountreth with her enemies but were unacquainted and altogether unexperienced with warlike affaires and marshall discipline yea when City and Country were in great distractions and eminent danger and when all things both by sea and land were to be accomplished for the preservation thereof with all manner of disadvantages and the greatest hazzard and difficulty that men could possibly meet withall and therefore I say again all these brave men have the primary right to be called the repairers of the breaches the restorers of our pathes to dwell in And next unto these illustrious ones I pray good Brother looke upon the famous Citie of London and on all the true hearted citizens in it who stood close to the Parliament in the most dangerous times and first rescued their Members questioned and preserved them all from the jawes of imminent danger and after that exposed themselves their lives fortunes and liberties in their quarrell and stucke close to their cause supplying them continually with Men Monies and Ammunition and all manner of warlicke accoutrements without whish the whole Kingdome had beene miserable Yea in their owne persons in the Citie and in the Field they hazarded all their lives in the Parliaments and their countries service so as they also may justly challenge a share in the next place to those noble Worthies above mentioned to be counted the Repairers of our breaches and Restorers of our paths to dwell in and therefore I shall desire you Brother and all those of your Fraternity to give the next place of honour to this Renowned Citie And whiles I am now speaking of such as have deserved well and merited the name under God of being preservers of our pathes to dwell in I pray let us not forget out brethren the Scots whose faithfull service deserves eternall gratitude and an everlasting memory who also stood in the breaches when we were but in a low condition who for our assistance exposed their own lives fortunes and countries to the fury and rage of many a potent enemy and indured incredible hardship at home and abroad undergoing many miseries and that at such a season of the year as was enough to have killed them to lie in the field and made their Country a prey for the spoilers who used barbarous and mercilesse cruelties upon them many of their brave and gallant commanders and gentlemen also dayly loosing their lives and wallowing in their own blood and all for our preservations and therefore they may under God duly challenge the third place of honour to be reputed the Repairers of our breaches and Restorers of our pathes to dwell in whose kindnesse
the great and deep Charge you have brought against me wounding truth thorow my sides upon the due deliberation thereof I plainly perceived without dishonouring God and being cruell to my self I could not be silent for that my taciturnity might cause truth the ways of God to be evil spoken of and give an occasion to censorious spirits to vote me guilty of those Malversations wherewith you so slily unjustly have accused me all which my soul hates and ever did utterly abhor therefore although I was forwarder to pity your passion and more desirous to pass by your miscarriages then to take notice of them or divulg the weaknesses and too too grosse failings of you my Brother yet your Charge being of a high nature and published in Print it necessitated me to reply lest I should seem to approve of the murthering of my good name So that meerly to preserve the life thereof you have extracted from me these lines that men may know it lies upon you to prove it for I stand upon my justification and protest against every one of your foul Calumnies as notorious untruths And likewise that all who fear the Lord may be fully assured however you have rendred me to the world as one who hath a name to live but am dead so that I may stink in the opinion of such as are holy yet I do live to my God who I doubt not will discover the bottome and mystery of this iniquity For herein you have dealt with me as the Papists did with Reverend and Learned Mr John Calvin raising and publishing untruths accusing him for a scandalous walker and as guilty of abominable sins making his very name odious And by their false reports they blinded the eyes of the people causing them stil to imbrace continue in Error and so hardned their hearts against him that they would not hearken unto nor beleeve those precious Gospel-truths which he maintained but as their wicked practices were discerned by all that with humble hearts received the truth in the love thereof that they might be saved so I am confident the Lord Jehovah will bring forth my righteousness as the light and my judgement as the noone day Psal 37. 6. And will cause mine adversaries to be clothed with shame and to cover themselves with their own confusion as with a mantle Psal 109. 29. that all the World may see and know your Charg hath no truth in it but is an Independent plot invented and spread abroad to defame me and cause the people to suspect slight and disregard those sound Scripture truths I hold forth and constantly maintain Thus far I have answered your false accusations And in the presence of God I solemnly protest this is a true answer Brother I would here gladly dismisse the Reader for willingly I over look many of your invectives without mentioning of them But I find two or three passages more to which you engage me to speak for the clearing the truth of what I have written in my Postscript Page 68. concerning Independents as also to answer a complaint you have made against me And lastly to resolve two quaeries which you have propounded unto me and in these I shall endeavour fully to satisfie you and all men But first as a Phisitian and a faithfull Friend avoyding all flattery I cannot but truly relate unto you the dangerous condition I find you in for I assure you I feel your pulse beates very high and I see you have a vein puft up with windy matter and I perceive you are swoln with pernicious and corrupt humors and that Choler exceedingly abounds in you insomuch as you breath forth â—â—rong revilings and defamings against those that never wronged you and make loud exclamations as if I were a man of no Religion Piety Wit or Learning because I have as for truths sake I was induty bound truly stated the Question of difference between the Presbyterians and Independents and made it appear that INDEPENDENCY is not GODS ORDINANCE nor grounded on the holy Scriptures and that the practice of Independents and the way they plead for will prove destructive to Church and State Now as I am grieved to see it so I wonder at the suddain distemper and great heat you are fallen into which makes you talk so much and that against me by name more then against others wherereas before I writ and since many have and one more especially in part discovered the sinfull practices of Independents the evill and unwarrantablenesse of their new way And how ever you are generally blamed for rushing out upon the Theatre to oppose him by name it being a work in the judgement of all wise men fitter for any other man to have undertaken then your selfe because of some more then ordinary tye of friendship between you and him yet you have bridled up your fury against his person although you say in your Appendix he ranks your words under the head of his first Section containing divers seditious scandalous libellous passages against the Authority and Jurisdiction of Parliaments Synods and temporall Magistrates in generall c. Now here is exceeding great wrong done unto you if your words are not of such a nature and might you be the sole Judge I am perswaded you would pronounce them not guilty notwithstanding you do not revile vilifie and falsly accuse the Author thereof But on me you have let loose your fury and have fallen upon me so passionately who was once a Fellow Sufferer with you that it hath sadded the spirits grieved the hearts and given great offence unto all that are truly godly who walk in that old way and the known paths of holinesse which Gods word doth plainly direct and lead them into and contrarywise you have opened the mouthes of the wicked and given cause of rejoycing to such as are without by your bitter expressions and false accusations brought against me one of your Quondam Fellow Sufferers But Pag. 26. you please to say that I have much exaggerated vilifications upon the Independents And notorious is that I say in my Postscript Pag 68. as by experience I know not any Indepâ—â—dent in England two onely excepted that do not as maliciously and implacably hate the the Presbyterians as the mortallest enemies they have in the world c. To this Brother I answer I vilifie none I have spoken the truth but because I see you take such great exceptions at these words I shall prove the truth of them from your own Tenents or make it appear you are not the only Saints for I have said nothing there but what the professed judgment of those Independents I know I still keep within the bounds of my own knowledg and their practise inciteth me to beleeve And if there be any Independents that differ from their judgement and practice I know them not two only excepted as I said before But for those Independents who being in the company of such as are truly godly yet
my gratitude to him whom the Lord made an instrument of good unto me and also that those who have and do exercise crueltie and insult over Prisoners may be convinced of their sinfull doings and know that humanity and courtesie to all but more especially to any in distresse is not onely highly pleasing to God but the honour of a man to the worlds duration This is a true Answer to your complaint wherein I doubt not but I have given satisfaction to all sober-minded Christians yea to all that have but common humanitie and understanding to whom to their great griefe it doth apparently appear that since you walked in your new way you have accustomed your selfe to speak of men that differ from your opinions in a blasting and detracting language by which you endeavour to make the vertues that such men are clothed withall seem to the ignorant to be the garments of vice and to render them odious if they will not turn Independents and Sectaries I am now come to your quae ies and here I cannot but confesse I stand astonished to see the humour you are fallen into the libertie you take to calumniate the strange devices you have to delude withal the aspersing discourse that proceedeth from you O Brother Brother I beseech you recollect your self look back seriously consider whither your anger leads you and how passion hath darkned your Judgement and quenched that fire of brotherly love whose flames would have consumed all your evill thoughts for love thinks no evil surely then you had not the spirit of brotherly love when you propounded those quaeries for they are wholly made up with carnall reasonings and evill surmises being altogether as voide of charitie as of Christian experience and truly I could wish I might passe them over in silence but your publishing and doubling them as if they were not to be gainsaid inforc me though unwillingly to replie thereunto lest by my silence many be deceived with your false glosses my sinceritie to the truth suspected by such as know me not and God be robbed of his due praise and glory therefore upon these considerations I have undertaken the work and to undeceive the world to your first quaerie which is Whether I discovered unto the Cavaliers some of that bitternesse of spirit against the Independents I answer this is a cunning deceiveable question whereby you delude poore ignorant harmelesse people baring them in hand as if there were a vast difference and great disagreement between the Cavaliers and Independents which is quite contrary for there is a direct harmonie betweene the Independents and Cavaliers of all sorts whether malignant or popish Cavaliers and the truth is to speake against Independents to Cavaliers may purchase displeasure to any man sooner then gaine him favour for I know and many can testifie the same that the Cavaliers doe generally applaud the Independents and indeed they have reason so to doe for they drive on the Cavaliers great designe with as much earnestnesse as themselves yet they have done it with farre more Iesuiticall policie doing it under the pretence of holinesse and so have beene lesse discerned by many in their destructive practises But their cunning undermining both Church and State doth now daily more and more very manifestly appeare and is discerned and bewayled of all who have not the eye of reason blinded with selfe-ends and by-respects and for preferments sake will connive at and side with any party But who ever prudentially conscienciously and judiciously examine and take a view of their proceedings they plainely see and confesse that the Independents have exceedingly laboured to set forward and daily doe indeavour leaving no wayes unattempted to effect that thing which was and is the Cavaliers grand designe for it is well knowne that the Cavaliers did make it their great and one of their chiefest designes to have Bishops and all the Prelaticall faction continued that so Popery though it were not by a Law set up and established in this Kingdome yet it might be countenanced and privately authorized by them which is all one with the toleration in effect that the Independents doe so plead seeke after and contend for calling it Liberty of Conscience Thus while they strive to get an unlimited which is an irreligious and unlawfull Liberâ—y they set forward the Cavaliers designe to the full and act for them with all their power and should the Independents obtaine their desire herein the greatest part of the Cavaliers worke would be done to their hand for then Cavaliers Papists Prelates Malignants Turkes Iewes and Heathens would all pretend that they beleeve serve and worship God according to the Light they have received and as they are perswaded in their Consciences is agreeable to Gods Word and Will and Conscience is a tender thing and ought not to be forced so that by the same rule in equity a toleration and Liberty of Conscience cannot be denyed to any of them if once granted to the Independents and Sectaries of our times who for the greatest part of them are as erroneous if not worse in their Doctrine as the Papists and Prelates many of them as blasphemous as the Turkes and Iewes and live as without God in the world and the malignant party knowing this very well doe therefore all of them Cavaliers Papists and the profanest Malignants in the Kingdome looke upon the Independents and speak of them usefull as their friends and unanimously agree upon all occasions to withstand the Presbyterian government that way being too strict and holy for any of them yea the Independents and they doe all joyne together as one man with one voyce pleading and crying out for a toleration liberty of conscience or an indulgence without any limitation that so every man may beleeve and serve God as it seemes good in his owne eyes under the name of tendernesse of conscience Now the Independents practices and the way they plead for being thus knowne to be very pleasing and acceptable to the Cavaliers whether Popish or otherwise then surely had I discovered any bitternesse of spirit against Jndependents it might have exasperated their spirits against mee it could never have extracted pitie or favour nor have drawne any applause from them therefore it is cleare that was not the cause But know the onely cause which moved some of the Cavaliers after J had for the further tryall of my patience and the manifestation of my faithfulnesse for a long time indured strict and close imprisonment in the Goale of Yorke to shew me favour was the gracious working and over-ruling power of God vvho inclined their hearts to deale kindly vvith me his faithfull servant Thus have I given you a true ansvver to your first Querie I come now to the second which you propound in these words Or was it some Courtly Compliance with Papists preferring them before Independents or Protestants that made those Popish Cavaliers so much to applaud you To which I answer that
part of this last Querie is the same with the former for here you speake as if to slight the Independents were a sure way to obtaine favour and applause from Popish Cavaliers truly you flatter your selfe if you thinke your subtill dealing herein is not seene when as it is so notoriously known that any man who speaks against Independents may be scorned but never applauded by Popish or any that are Cavaliers for they applaud the Independents whom they hold to be more subtill and powerfull to effect the thing they chiefly ayms at and desire then themselves and it is well knowne and can be proved that they will run and goe to doe any Malignant a favour yea they will joyne with the wickedest Cavaliers against a Presbyterian to doe him a mischiefe But having cleared this truth in my Reply to your first Querie I hasten to the other part of this where you start the Question Whether the favour I received were not by my courtly compliance with Papists preferring them before Protestants c. To which I answer that my constant perseverance in holding forth the true Protestant Religion where ever I lived at home and beyond the seas is sufficiently knowne to all the godly faithfull orthodox Christians that inhabited in any of those parts where I have dwelt and so farre have I ever beene from any courtly complying with Papists or preferring them before Protestants as some in England at this day can testifie that when I lived in forraine nations my zeale was so great for the Protestant Religion that with no little hazard I have maintained it for all the while I travailed abroad and continued in Popish Countries which was many yeares it fared with mee as with the Apostle Paul while hee waited at Athens Act. 17. 16 17. my spirit was stirred in me when I saw the Cities and all the Countries wholly given to Idolatry therefore carrying my life in my hand I daily disputed with Papists and those they accounted the devout persons Priests and Iesuits against Popery maintaining the Protestant Religion insomuch as it was only the goodnesse of my God that kept me safe giving them no power to hurt mee further J answer you the Bookes that I have written against Popery in Latine and in English are yet extant and they doe witnesse and will to future generations that the Author of them disputed against and disclaimed Popery and earnestly contented for the faith which was once delivered unto the Saints Iud. vers 3. yea the many disputations I have held with Priests Jesuits and people popishly affected in England not onely while I injoyed my liberty but also when by the Prelaticall popish party J was for maintaining the true Protestant Religion and standing for the peace and welfare of my countrey cast into severall prisons viz. in the Gate-house at Westminster in the Castle of Launceston in Cornewall in the Castle in the Isle of Sylly in the Goale of Leicester in the Goale in the Citie of Yorke in Hemsley-Castle in Yorke-shire Lastly in Knasebrough-Castle in Yorke-shire Yet through Gods supporting grace in none of all these prisons could the cruelty pride and fury of men which in Yorke and Sylly was my daily portion either make me forget my integrity or daunt mee in the least for their rage and power I feared not neither did I ever forbeare to justifie godly Protestants nor decline any opportunity to dispute with Papists but improved it to the uttermost to shew the great idolatry and vanity of their Religion as many who were prisoners with mee in some of the fore-named places can testifie And I am confident that the Popish Cavaliers with whom I have beene a prisoner and others of them that have discoursed and reasoned with me in matters of Religion will give this testimony that they ever found me constant to my principles unmoveable in the Protestant Religion and as farre from complying with Papists or preferring them before Protestants what ever I suffered or under-went as light is from darkenesse in its greatest brightnesse Moreover Brother I would not that you should be ignorant how that I have beene as frequent in disputations writ as much in confutation and at all times and in all companies have appeared as forward and earnest against Papists and have ventured my life to maintaine the Protestant Religion as freely as any Independent I know in England and that in the worst of times yea when those who are now the chiefe independent Rabbies to avoyd suffering for truth would not stand to appeare in her behalfe but went out of the Kingdome and like the parents of the man that was borne blind Joh. 9. 21. Left her to speake for her selfe then J helped to maintaine truths cause and was not afraid nor ashamed to suffer in so good a quarrell but resisted her opposers Papists Prelates Arminians and Formalists in their erroneous Doctrines and Popish practises even unto blood I am become a foole in glorying you have compelled me 2 Cor. 12. 11. for so many reproaches which you have cast upon me and such groundlesse Queries could never have proceeded from any that had not beene guided should I say by a traducing spirit truly that word would come short fully to explaine and set forth the sinfull subtilty of them therefore I will not undertake to set down what spirit it was and what name it will beare I shall onely shew what it was not and leave it to such as are godly wife and experienced Christians to spell out the name thereof Now it is very evident that it was not the spirit of brotherly love that would have silenced yea annihilated such thoughts in the first conception for as brotherly love thinks no evill much lesse dares it devise and publish falshood yet more evill and greater falshood then you have not only thought as it plainely appeares but published against me and that deliberately none could ever have imagined for you render me a scandalous Walker as vile as vile can be and here you question whether I have not complyed with Papists and Popish Cavaliers and preferred them before Protestants Thus with your windie Independent policie you blast my good name raise doubts cloud my sincerity darken and overshadow my faithfull constant perseverance in the truth and wayes of God to make me be thought a man infamous and of no Religion but such dealings are absolutely contrary to brotherly love therefore it is very clear to the understanding of all that you were not guided by that spirit And as your quaeries were made without brotherly love so they seem to be altogether voyd of Christian experience being wholly filled with evill surmises scrued up to their height by the hand of carnall reason and uttered by the tongue of sinfull suspicion For I beseech you consider how it comes to passe that you who have been a Prisoner one of my Quondam Fellow Sufferers when you heare that I being a Prisoner under the command and power of