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A69024 A replie to a relation, of the conference between William Laude and Mr. Fisher the Jesuite. By a witnesse of Jesus Christ Burton, Henry, 1578-1648. 1640 (1640) STC 4154; ESTC S104828 423,261 458

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so fit as his own Day of Rest which he hath Commanded to be sanctified weekly of us if we be his people and he the Lord our God who hath redeemed us in his holy and eternall Law and in which day we resting do partake and communicate of his holy and eternall rest begun here by Christ and consummate in heaven in that pangúrei solemne Generall Assembly and Congregation of the first borne written in heaven Heb. 12.23 And to conclude if the ten Commandements belong to us Christians under the Covenant of Grace then certainly the 4 th Commandement which commands to keep the Sabbath of the Lord our God which is the Lords day Now by this which hath been spoken you may examine how farre you and your Church of England have erred in the foundation that is in this and other fundamentall points of Faith at least if those Acts ●dicts and Books that have been published against the aforesaid Doctrines shal be avowed for the Doctrines of the Church of England as they are pressed And if with Rome you be thus fallen holy you are not by your own confession nor onely so but Hereticall yea more then that Infidel For in the same page you say If the Church can erre quite from the Foundation then she is nor Holy nor Church but becomes an Infidell Now we have proved that to erre in one or more though not in all fundamentall points of Faith is to fall quite off from the foundation But if you thus cease to be holy how are you the Church of Christ still as you say For holinesse is essentiall unto and so is of the Difinition of the true Church of Christ I beleeve the Holy Catholicke Church And so of every particular Church if it be a true member of the true Catholicke it is holy For Eadem est ratio totius partium If the whole be holy so every member and part But the whole true Church is holy For 't is Christs body mysticall whereof he the Head he the root and we the Branches and if the root be holy so are the branches as the Apostle saith And he saith againe The Temple of God is holy which Temple ye are And I say Christ being the Head and the Church h●s body the spirit of holinesse and sanctification flows down from the Head to all the m●mbers as the Oyle powred on Aarons head went down to the skirts of his clothing which was a type of the holy anoynting oyle of Christs spirit powred on him which he communicates to all the members of his misticall body even as a mans head communicates of Animal spirits of motion to all the parts of his body as we touched before Except with Bellarmine you will have a dead member to be a true member Indeed a dead member of a dead body is a true member of that body And certainly if a Church cease to be holy it ceaseth to be a Church of Christ any more● But I pray you what should move you to say thus Though the Church ceaseth to be Holy yet ceaseth not to be a Church of Christ. You have it not from the Schoole of Divinity not scarce can you rake it out of the puddle of the Iesuites themselves But haply you might suspect that the Church of Rome might be proved to be fallen quite from the Foundation as hath been already proved before and therfore your Charity would provide one refuge for it that though thus she ceaseth to be holy yet not to be a true Church still But you may doe well to study this point a little better how to make it good How a Church may cease to be Holy becoming Hereticall and yet be a Church of Christ still L. p. 141.142 Those Errors that are dyed in Graine cannot consist with holinesse of which Faith in Christ is the very Foundation And therfore if we will keep up our Creed the whole Militant Church must still be holy P. This confirmes what before I concluded of the Church of Rome as no Church of Chhist because by your own verdict not holy For her Errors and that in the fundamentall points of Faith are all dyed in graine so as they will never change colour nor looke of another hue For both they are of no small antiquity and since their first hatching they have been by sundry Councels confirmed and at last most irrefragably in the Councel of Trent as hath been shewed For as those things which you elswhere instance Worship of Images first erected in the 2 d Councel of Nice the seventh Generall Transubstantiation first Decreed in the Councel of Laterian under Innocent the third and the taking away of the Cup in the Sacrament first decreed in the Councel of Constance so the Title of Antichrist of Vniversall Bishop and Head of the Church obtained first by Boniface 3. above a thousand yeares agoe with many or most or all the Rest of Popery have been ever since their severall erections upon all occasions more and more ratified never any corrected and by generall practice upheld and against all opposition and conviction stiffly maintained Are they not dyed in graine then And if so you confesse they consist not of holinesse But say you if we will keep up our Creed the whole Melitant Church must still be Holy Here you enterfere againe For notwithstanding all that is said or I suppose can be said you will have the Church of Rome to be holy still as being a member of the Church Militant in despight of the Pope But let her be a member of your Church Militant is she therfore holy Say not you your Church Militant may fall into errors so as to cease to be holy And if the Church of Rome hath thus fallen hath she not for her part ceased to be holy But not if she keep up the Creed What call you that To hold the letter of the Creed and to deny the Faith of it so we have proved before She hath lost the Faith of Christ the foundation of Holinesse Ergo she hath lost Holinesse Ergo lost the Essence of a Church Ergo she is not in the compasse of your Creed I beleeve the Holy Catholicke Church L. p. 142. I say it and most true it is That it was ill done if those who ere they were that made the seperation P. It should be most true if you doe but say it Yet we find not all to be most true you say How true this is I know not yet Let us here I remember a little before you performed a thanklesse office for the Protestants in making an Apology for them as not the first in the fault of this seperation Which I answered And here you put the fault on those that made the seperation who ere they were which might be aswell the Protestants as the Papists But speake out L. p. 145. For my part I am of the same opinion for the continuing of the Schisme that I was for
be so mortified as to be dead to these things and not any more to suffer themselves in such things to be vassalized by men which to doe is to deny Christs death and so to fall away from Christ not holding the Head that is not holding Christ as the Apostle Saith v. 19. And therefore he chargeth Saying Let no man beguile your reward or the Crowne of your victory as the word imports in a voluntary humility c. That is Subject not your selves to mens devises in matters of Religion though they have never so faire pretences of voluntary humility and devotion for so you suffer your selves to be spoyled of your Crown that you fight for as Christ Saith Hold fast that thou hast that no man take thy Crown Thus we see that it is a matter of no small moment and consequence to be subject to Mans devises in matters of Religion and Gods worship when it is a denyall of Christs death yea a falling from Christ and so a loosing of our eternall Crown And here againe on the other side such as wil be Masters of Ceremonies in the service of God may take notice of their damnable pride and presumption in daring to bring into bondage the people of God whom Christ with his own precious blood hath redeemed from all such Slavery And for matter of decencie Is it decent for a Judge set over a Province by the King or Supreame Magistrate with expresse written Laws how to govern and no otherwise to take upon him to rule them as he list and to yeeld what service to the King he pleaseth Or is it decent that one King subordinate to a higher as Emperour or so as King Herod was to Caesar Augustus should presume to make Laws to bind Caesars Subjects without any expresse warrant so to doe Now all earthly Princes are subordinate to Christ as his vice-gerents who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords Nay more then this Christs Kingdome here on earth is Spirituall and the Laws therof altogether spirituall enacted by his Spirit and recorded in the Scripture Is it decent then that earthly Powers or Princes or Priests how ever styled should make Laws according to their carnall fancies for the government of this Spirituall Kingdome and the service of God who wil be served in Spirit and Truth Yea in this Spirituall Kingdome Christ our King keeps his perpetuall residence by his Spirit immediatly and that in the heart soule spirit and conscience of every one of his Subjects and Saints the true beleevers So the Apostle But Christ as the Son ●ver his own house whose house we are c. And you are the Temple of the living God as God hath Said I will dwell in them and walke in them and I wil be their God and they shal be my people Wherfore come out from among them and be ye Seperate Saith the Lord and touch not the unclean thing and I will receive you And I wil be a Father unto you and ye shal be my Sons and Daughters Saith the Lord Allmighty And Know ye not that ye are the Temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you If any man defile the Temple of God him will God defile or destroy For the Temple of God is holy whose Temple ye are And Ye are built up a Spirituall house an holy Priesthood to offer up spirituall sacrifices acceptable to God by Iesus Christ. Now is every true beleever the Temple of God a Spirituall house over which the Son of God ruleth as King and in which he dwelleth and walketh in which also spirituall Sacrifices and Services are offered up in Christs Name as himselfe hath commanded in his word And is all strange service devised by men a profaning of the Temple of God as the Scripture every where teacheth And must Gods people Seperate themselves from all such profanesse and touch no unclean thing by subjecting themselves to profane ordinances of men whereby they should cast off God for their Father and Christ for their King and the Holy Ghost from his residence and dwelling in them Then how not onely undecent but unholy profane and impious is it for any sort of men whatsoever to impose the devices of their own brains upon the Consciences of Gods people in the worship of their God What is this but to thrust Christ out of his Throne as before and to set up an Antichristian Throne of Tyranny like Caesars Image in the Temple the abomination of desolation in the living and spirituall Temples of Iesus Christ Thus Christ being that O●kodespotes the Father of the Family of God is it decent for any Steward Such whose Office you doe usurpe of his own head without warrant to give carnall Lawes to the Family for their spirituall Service to their Lord and to beat them if they refuse to conforme unto them Secondly neither is it according to Order for men to Set up Ceremonies in Gods service First because they have no order from God so to doe So as God may Say unto them Who required these things at your hands And In vain they worship me teaching for Doctrines the Commandements of men Againe 'T is the greatest violation of Order in the World for any Man to usurpe and exercise a Tyranny over his Fellow-Servants which the Lord hath expresly forbidden and which he will most severely punish And of all Tyrannies in the world is not this the greatest and most intolerable to hold under the yoake of bondage the Consciences of Gods people in the observation of humane rites in the worship of God from all which Christ hath freed them by the shedding of his blood And will a King think it to be according to Order and not the highest degree of rebellion for a Subject to usurpe his Throne Can it then be either decent or orderly for any power on earth Prince or Priest or altogether to invade Christs Throne and therein exercise their Tyranny over his people Certainly such as doe so 't is just with God to thrust them out of their Thrones and to breake the Staffe of their Tyranny wherewith they beat his Children over their heads Thus this Scripture the Same weapon which you violently wrest and take out of Gods Armory to beat us withall we vindicate out of your hands and turne both edge and point against your usurped Tyranny And so being beaten out of the maine Fort which you had violently seased you can have small confidence in the rest But you goe on and Say Ceremonies in Religion the ancienter they be the better So they may fit Time and Place We all know your Lordship to be no small adorer of venerable and hoary Antiquity in point of Ceremonies Indeed Salomon Saith The hoary head is a Crown of glory if it be found in the way of Righteousnesse Els not And Tertullian an ancient writer of the Church Saith Antiquity without