so fit as his own Day of Rest which he hath Commanded to be sanctified weekly of us if we be his people and he the Lord our God who hath redeemed us in his holy and eternall Law and in which day we resting do partake and communicate of his holy and eternall rest begun here by Christ and consummate in heaven in that pangúrei solemne Generall Assembly and Congregation of the first borne written in heaven Heb. 12.23 And to conclude if the ten Commandements belong to us Christians under the Covenant of Grace then certainly the 4 th Commandement which commands to keep the Sabbath of the Lord our God which is the Lords day Now by this which hath been spoken you may examine how farre you and your Church of England have erred in the foundation that is in this and other fundamentall points of Faith at least if those Acts â—dicts and Books that have been published against the aforesaid Doctrines shal be avowed for the Doctrines of the Church of England as they are pressed And if with Rome you be thus fallen holy you are not by your own confession nor onely so but Hereticall yea more then that Infidel For in the same page you say If the Church can erre quite from the Foundation then she is nor Holy nor Church but becomes an Infidell Now we have proved that to erre in one or more though not in all fundamentall points of Faith is to fall quite off from the foundation But if you thus cease to be holy how are you the Church of Christ still as you say For holinesse is essentiall unto and so is of the Difinition of the true Church of Christ I beleeve the Holy Catholicke Church And so of every particular Church if it be a true member of the true Catholicke it is holy For Eadem est ratio totius partium If the whole be holy so every member and part But the whole true Church is holy For 't is Christs body mysticall whereof he the Head he the root and we the Branches and if the root be holy so are the branches as the Apostle saith And he saith againe The Temple of God is holy which Temple ye are And I say Christ being the Head and the Church hâ—s body the spirit of holinesse and sanctification flows down from the Head to all the mâ—mbers as the Oyle powred on Aarons head went down to the skirts of his clothing which was a type of the holy anoynting oyle of Christs spirit powred on him which he communicates to all the members of his misticall body even as a mans head communicates of Animal spirits of motion to all the parts of his body as we touched before Except with Bellarmine you will have a dead member to be a true member Indeed a dead member of a dead body is a true member of that body And certainly if a Church cease to be holy it ceaseth to be a Church of Christ any moreâ— But I pray you what should move you to say thus Though the Church ceaseth to be Holy yet ceaseth not to be a Church of Christ. You have it not from the Schoole of Divinity not scarce can you rake it out of the puddle of the Iesuites themselves But haply you might suspect that the Church of Rome might be proved to be fallen quite from the Foundation as hath been already proved before and therfore your Charity would provide one refuge for it that though thus she ceaseth to be holy yet not to be a true Church still But you may doe well to study this point a little better how to make it good How a Church may cease to be Holy becoming Hereticall and yet be a Church of Christ still L. p. 141.142 Those Errors that are dyed in Graine cannot consist with holinesse of which Faith in Christ is the very Foundation And therfore if we will keep up our Creed the whole Militant Church must still be holy P. This confirmes what before I concluded of the Church of Rome as no Church of Chhist because by your own verdict not holy For her Errors and that in the fundamentall points of Faith are all dyed in graine so as they will never change colour nor looke of another hue For both they are of no small antiquity and since their first hatching they have been by sundry Councels confirmed and at last most irrefragably in the Councel of Trent as hath been shewed For as those things which you elswhere instance Worship of Images first erected in the 2 d Councel of Nice the seventh Generall Transubstantiation first Decreed in the Councel of Laterian under Innocent the third and the taking away of the Cup in the Sacrament first decreed in the Councel of Constance so the Title of Antichrist of Vniversall Bishop and Head of the Church obtained first by Boniface 3. above a thousand yeares agoe with many or most or all the Rest of Popery have been ever since their severall erections upon all occasions more and more ratified never any corrected and by generall practice upheld and against all opposition and conviction stiffly maintained Are they not dyed in graine then And if so you confesse they consist not of holinesse But say you if we will keep up our Creed the whole Melitant Church must still be Holy Here you enterfere againe For notwithstanding all that is said or I suppose can be said you will have the Church of Rome to be holy still as being a member of the Church Militant in despight of the Pope But let her be a member of your Church Militant is she therfore holy Say not you your Church Militant may fall into errors so as to cease to be holy And if the Church of Rome hath thus fallen hath she not for her part ceased to be holy But not if she keep up the Creed What call you that To hold the letter of the Creed and to deny the Faith of it so we have proved before She hath lost the Faith of Christ the foundation of Holinesse Ergo she hath lost Holinesse Ergo lost the Essence of a Church Ergo she is not in the compasse of your Creed I beleeve the Holy Catholicke Church L. p. 142. I say it and most true it is That it was ill done if those who ere they were that made the seperation P. It should be most true if you doe but say it Yet we find not all to be most true you say How true this is I know not yet Let us here I remember a little before you performed a thanklesse office for the Protestants in making an Apology for them as not the first in the fault of this seperation Which I answered And here you put the fault on those that made the seperation who ere they were which might be aswell the Protestants as the Papists But speake out L. p. 145. For my part I am of the same opinion for the continuing of the Schisme that I was for
your soule the guilt of the bloud of JESUS who under Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession and so of all his Prophets Apostles and Martyrs But you will say BURTON had no such speciall mission and commission as the Prophets had No Could not you see that he was extraordinarily raysed up by GOD and by him extraordinarily assisted both in his Sermons and in his Book and in his free and undanted Spirit in his appearance and Answer before so many Terrible ones in that Court and in that fiery tryall on the Pillory and other tryalls wherein he carryed himselfe from the First to the Last with that constant magnanimity that he seemed rather a Triumphant then a Patient Can you ascribe this to any humane strength of a poore impotent Man wrastling and warring against such a dreadfull and direfull host of Adversaries and not to the sole and extraordinary support of the Spirit of Christ in him So as when being a Spectator of the Tragedy as you had been the maine Author wherein you thought to glut your eyes with such a Spectacle and to make your selfe even drunken with his bloud were you not on the contrary amazed and confounded to see a Man on the Pillory triumphing over your incomparable cruelty Did not your Conscience then at least check you and tell you that you did then Pillory Iesus Christ in his Servant as it were nayling him afresh to the Crosse and putting him to an open shame But you goe on Saying Now in the midst of these Libellous outcryes what some Divines of great note and worth in the Church of England c. 'T is no hard matter to Divine of what stamp your Notable and worthy Divines in the Church of England be But I passe them by as unsaluted it being obvious to all men what kind of Divines doe merit to be accounted of you of Note and Worth in the Church of England who are and must be either Arminian or Popish or both Flatterers and Sycophants Proud and Profane persons by which they are most noted and known and whose worth is valued according to the rate of the magnitude or multitude of their Fat Benefices Prebends Deaneries Prelacies or other dignities and according to their great Scholarship show'd in their seldome preaching in their own Cures and their curious and quaint Rhetorizing in the Court where the plainest part of the Sermon is down-right-rayling against the Puritans and the base and grosse flattering of the Court. â—ut what of these your worthy divines First they come to your Lordship Well that 's but good manners to expresse their officiousnesse though but with a complement Secondly not together but one by one not one knowing of anothers coming Every one thinking perhaps to prevent other in so notable a piece of Service and so to promerit all the thanks Well thirdly What 's the matter of this casuall or rather miraculous confluence To perswade with you to reprint this your Conference in your own name But cui bono To what purpose For it would vindicate your Reputation being generally known to be yours Now least your Lordship may run into a strong misconceit as if this strange concurrence of persons and Spirits not one knowing of anothers coming or occasion were from some Constellation of the Starres or rather from Divine Providence for your good you know your Brother of Chichester protested in his Appeale that he had never read Arminius and yet how pat did he hit upon and hold all the Arminian Points as if he had been an old Disciple of Arminius his Schoole By what Spirit trow you was this But to the point All this was to vindicate your Reputation With whom With Jesuites Certainly not with any good Christians Yet this you labour too with laying on colous enough But this Art of writing against Jesuites is now grown so stale and triviall as in these dayes it begets new Suspicions of a Popish Spirit especially when it once comes forth under the Authority or Name of Canterbury Yet haply your Divines are Astrologers observing the Constellations of the times and thereupon divining or conjecturing what fearefull events might come of it and those perhaps prognosticating and ominating little good to your Lordship upon whom they saw a generall bad and malignant Aspect to be cast might strain their wits and use their strongest reasons to perswade you to use the best meanes to prevent the worst whereof they imagined this their motion to be the best And therefore they might perhaps frame their Speech in such a like forme as this My Lord we observe abroad what discontents possesse most men against your Grace about these late Innovations in the Church as they call them and you know the Truth of Religion as they apprehend it as also the Liberty of their Consciences are with the Puritans of high estimation and men will not easily part with them especially those that be Zealous indeed as accounting them their best freeholds Such especially as acknowledge no other King over their Soules and Consciences in matters of Faith and Gods worship as we have heard them say but onely CHRIST And they have shrowd Arguments herein for themselves And you see what necessary occasions and exigents may constrain the King to call a Parliament and how farre that being a meanes to fasten and confirme the Subjects affections to his Majesty now especially upon this Defection of Scotland may draw the King to be willing to give his People contentment in permitting them that purity in Religion in Faith and Discipline which Christ and his Apostles they say have taught and left them without which they say they cannot be freed from the Yoake of Antichristian or humane Ordinance for we use but their words and how dangerous this may be to your Grace whom they have marked out as the maine Active Agent or Instrument in disturbing their peace and distracting their minds and trenching upon their said Liberty as they account it And considering how the whole Land generally groaneth under many heavy Grievances as People now adayes account Grievances as their deep Sighs do interpret their minds and of these your Honour is reputed one of the Prime Movers And however your Lorship may haply conceive that if ye be put to a pinch your Book your late Conference set forth against Fisher will prove sufficient to ward off and beat back all accusations annent Religion yet my Lord it is not put forth in your own Name they may Question whether it be yours or no and say that being namelesse you may in time disclaime it if ever you can bring your pious purpose for peace to passe And besides 't is now a long time since it was Printed and so is forgotten Wherefore our humble advise with all due Submission to your Lordships pregnant wisedome is that your Grace would revise correct and more fully expresse your selfe in some things in the said Book and so republish it in Print under
to a Hive of Bees you say Now the King and the Priest more then any other are bound to look to the Integrity of the Church in Doctrines and Manners and that in the first place And a little after Now in this great and busie worke the King and the Priest must not feare to put their hands to the Hive though they be sure to be stung The Kings case as King Davids is to be stung with Bees but when it comes to the Priest the case is altered they come about him like Waspes or like Hornets rather All sting and no honey there And all this for no offence nay sometimes for service done them would they see it c. P. However you may please your selfe in your conceits in playing with this your similitude of Bee-hive yet perhaps upon a review of all circumstances you will begin to discerne no small incongruity except you can salute it with Similitudo non currit quatuor pedibus A Similitude runs not upon all foure For first A Hive of Bees you know is a kind of compleat Common-weale within it selfe Such is Christs true Church The Chiefe and great Master-Bee in this Hive is Christ and his holy Spirit A Christian King who is in and of the Hive is under Christ a kind of Subordinate Master-Bee whose Office it is to see that the expresse voyce and Law of Christ and that alone both touching Doctrines and Manners be duely observed both by the Ministers and People and that the Delinquents and Offenders be either reformed or punished according to the same Law of Christ. As for the Priest whom you name and set Cheeke by Jowle with the King and that twice here for fayling let me tell you that the New Testament and so the true Christian Church knoweth not neither acknowledgeth any Priest besides Christ who is as the onely Altar so the onely Priest of his Church as is noted before And did not I say That Altar and Priest would ever goe together Here you are up with your Priest And who is this Priest Even no lesse then the Metropolitan of all England Poore humble Priest But a Priest however Otherwise what should you doe with your Altar we spake of if you had not a Priest to it And having an Altar and Priest you must needs have a Sacrifice too els all would be lame As Isaack said to his Father My Father here is fire and wood but where is the Sacrifice So you may Say we have here an Altar and Priest we must have a Sacrifice too But I say the true Church of GOD acknowledgeth no Priest but Christ as no Altar no Sacrifice but Him Onely indeed all true beleevers are called and made of GOD Kings and Priests and a royall Priesthood as were also the beleeving Jewes under the Old Testament to whom Moses saith Ye shal be unto me saith God a Kingdome of Priests and an holy Natiâ—n As for Aarons Priesthood it is abolished and swallowed up in our onely High Priest Iesus Christ made a Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedech Yet every beleever is a Priest to offer up Spirituall Sacrifices to God by Iesus Christ. Which shews a plain difference between Christs Priesthood and our royall Priesthood For We offer up Spirituall Sacrifices to God by Iesus Christ but he by himselfe offered the Sacrifice of himselfe to GOD for us So as not even Ministers of Gods word are otherwise Priests but as they are beleevers onely in their publick Ministry they are the mouth of Gods people in offering up to GOD Spirituall Sacrifices of Prayer and thanksgiving by Iesus Christ. But your Priesthood my Lord is a new Order of humane Ordinance and Ordination not found in nor founded upon Gods word and therefore a false and unlawfull Priesthood For no man takes this honour upon him but he that is called of GOD as was Aaron But your Priesthood hath no calling from GOD. Nor doth the New Testament once call a Minister of the Gospell hierùs Sacerdos Priest It calls them Presbutèrous indeed Presbyters or Elders but never hiereis Sacerdotes Priests for hiereùs is properly such a Priest as offereth a slaine Sacrifice as hiereion is a Sacrifice that is slaine And thus are you Priests in Sacrificing either Christs body as in the Masse or els the Bodies of his Saints who are in this respect accounted as Sheep for the Slaughter Rom. 8.36 Let therefore the Church of Rome and yours of England if ye will have her Priests Altars Sacrifices as for the true Church of Christ she admitteth none of all these And though you yoak your Priest or as at after your very aliâs the Archbishop of Canterbury with the King yet we must put kasma méga a vast difference and disparity between them For first a Christian King or Magistrate Supream is as we touched before both within and of the Hive but the Priest you speake of is quite without the Hive and none of the Hive no Priest of Christs true Church but an intruder Droane Waspe or Hornet Secondly good Christian Princes executing their office aright are Nursing Fathers to the Church and helpe to bring in supply to the Hive and guard it from vermine and weather but your Priest even the whole Generation and swarme of them are Step-fathers to the Bees and are Droanes eating up the Honey as you confesse here of some if not Waspes and Hornets also Stinging and Killing the Bees or chasing them out of the Hive into some hollow tree in the Desert Lastly the King doing his office in and to the Hive is loved reverenced and obâ—yed by the Bees and they yeeld him a Tribute of their Honey But when your Priest puts his rough hand to the Hive the Bees are ready to fly about his eares as not acknowledging any such Usurper And have you never read nor heard that if one that is chaste come among the Bees not offering violence unto them they will never offer to sting him but if an adulterous person come amongst them they will quickly smell him out and be all about his eares And be sure Christs Bees cannot brooke such Priests as smell of the whore of Babels Smocke and commit spirituall whoredome with her or have any hankering affection after her And therefore mervaile not if as you say when it comes to the Priest the Bees come about like Waspes or Hornets all sting and no honey for your Priest there And you seem to speak it feelingly Surely if you deale roughly with the Bees and begin to lay about you they wil be about your Eares Therefore be not curst unto them least you make them as angry as a Bee Thus by your patience I have truely and genuinely applyed your Similitude As for the occasion what ever it be or may be whereupon you bring it in and so apply it so much complaining of the Bees for their stinging as if you felt the present
Pope not to be Antichrist and no necessity of frequent Preaching and none to preach but Bishops and Deanes and that onely and especially at the three Solemn times in the yeare Also another Book intituled the Femall Glory as full fraught thoughout with the most grosse blasphemous Idolatrous Popish Stuffe as it can hold and this in plain English allowed by one of your Chapleins or of London house and for ought I heare not yet suppressed or call'd in Besides many other of the same branne some whereof are printed but kept up under deck not daring yet to peep forth till the Storm as in Starre Chamber you call'd it raysed by BURTON and others be over and least they should be made Popish Martyrs in Smithfield as Salis his Devotions were which for feare were burned as afore Under your Primacy hath there not been a mighty stirring and stickling for the seting up of Altars c. yea of Images too and Crucifixes and that in Collegiate Churches or Chappels both in Oxford you being Chauncellour and in Cambridge where you want not a Vice-Chauncellour and which you indeavour in all the Churches of England Under your Primacie have not your pregnantest wits and profoundest Divines been set aworke to write Books to unmorallize the 4th Commandement for the perpetuall keeping of the Lords Sabbath day and so unbind Christians from the sanctification of the Lords day and their Books allowed by your Authority and Dedicated to great ones and much applauded by your Faction Under your Primacie have not your Doctors also written stoutly for your Altars and that even unto blasphemy Saying that the use of the Altar is to sanctifie the Sacrifice and without an Altar the Sacrifice is not Sanctified or dedicated by the Bishop Under your Primacie began not Ministers to be Suspended Silenced Excommunicated put out of their Benefices and Cures of Soules for refusing to read the Book of Liberty for Sports on the Lords day and to set up Altars in their Churches at their Ordinaries Command These these my Lord being thus doe you complaine of unsettlednesse Who hath troubled the Fountain The Wolfe above at the Spring head or the Lamb below To recollect then and recapitulate these things When Profanation of the Lords day is by publick Edict allowed when the Articles of Religion are made as the Delphick Oracles to be taken two contrary wayes when the Doctrines of Gods Grace are universally restrained and forbid to be preached when Popish Books publickly allowed in Print and Orthodox Books against Popery restrained when Altars set up in all Churches where there was none before when Books published by Authority to disanull Gods Morall Law when Books allowed publickly to maintain the seting up of Altars in Churchs when Godly Ministers by multitudes put down for not yeelding to those things which are contrary to the Laws of God and man and all this in the State of England where from the first Reformation such as it was have been universally and constantly maintained both by writing and preaching the morality of the 4th Commandement for the sanctification of the Lords Day the Articles of Religion concerning Grace to have but one Orthodox sense the free and unrestrained preaching of Gods word and confuting of all opposite Errours that the Pope is that Antichrist that the Lords Supper was to be celebrated onely at the Lords Table that Ministers Conformity was extended no further then was limited by the Law all these things considered in the tumult of so many bold Innovations Innovation I cry you mercy Renovations I should say of old Popish ragges and outcast reliques for you disclaim Innovation against Gods law and Mans law what settlement what peace what tranquility can be expected and then again al these new Attempts for Uniformity and Conformity coming in under and with your Primacie can they vindicate your Reputation from a generall opinion of your being the most perillous and pernicious Instrument of unsettling and troubling the State oâ— the Land and of Religion and you may if you will take Scotland in to boot with generall discontents and heart burnings to see the State of Religion thus turned topsie turvie And doe you complain notwithstanding that you cannot attain to an Orderly Settlement Stay my Lord be not so eagre See Scotland first settled before you proceed further in the settlement of England least you unsettle all Be not deceived in the confidence of your own active brain and borrowed power And see also how your Booke will take For Certainly therein you have run your selfe upon the Pikes get off as you can Your Reputation if you meane it for the Repute to be a good Protestant unlesse you meane it that you would be accounted what you are a member of one and the Same Church with Rome is now bound to the Stake ready to be Sacrificed for a whole-burnt Offering For what your Ordinary practises proclaimed to the world of you now in your Book you stick not openly to professe that you desire for the Church and State of England to be reconciled to the Sea of Rome So as your Book besides the turbulent matter in it like the Trojan horse full of armed enemies could not possibly have been borne into the world in a more unhappy time then now when you see two Kingdomes all in a combustion which the Sprinkling of your Romes Holy water wil be so farre from quenching or allaying that it will prove rather as Oyle to increase and feed the flame But GOD give the King the Spirit of Wisedome and Iudgement to see into these things betimes both for the preventing of further mischiefes and for the reuniting of the great rent between his two Kingdomes But as Iehu said to Iehoram when he asked Is it peace Iehu What peace said he so long as the Whoredomes of thy Mother Iezabel and her Witchcrafts are so many So what peace can be expected in the Land where such an Uniformity and Settlement is required as is so repugnant to the Laws of Christs Kingdome and conformable to Antichrists Tyranny and conducible to a reconciliation with that old Iezabel of Rome Certainly the case being so as Deborah said in her Song They chose new gods then was warre in the gates So when a Nation falls to advance higher and higher a new and false Religion where it had been formerly in some good measure cast out to set up Idolatrous and Romish Altars whereby Christ the true and onely Altar of true Christians as hath been shewed is denyed and renounced and to cry down Gods holy Commandements and to oppresse Gods holy Word in the Ministry of it and to persecute Gods faithfull Ministers and People and like the Aegyptians to oppresse Gods People more and more with intolerable burthens of humane inventions to the great reproach of Christ and the throwing down of his incommunicable Royall Soveraignty over his Church and People in matters of Faith and the worship of God Can peace or settlement
did locally in Soule descend into Hell the place of the damned without any proofe from Scripture is Sin My reasons are these 1. Because this opens a gappe to men to beleeve humane Traditions to be of Faith to Salvation as of equall credit and authority to the Scriptures Now it cannot be proved that the Creed it selfe with its forme and words and Articles and Title called The Apostles Creed is other then a humane Tradition or that the Apostles composed the Creed Secondly This argues as a too high estimation of a thing humane as if it were autópistos of selfe-Credit so a too base estimation and undervaluing of the holy Scripture as if they alone were not the Rule of Faith or not to be relieâ— and rested on alone for all matters concerning Christian Faith So as to give Credit to any thing else besides the Scripture as of equall Authority with the Scripture as you make your Creed to be and not examining it by the Scripture is a detracting from the Authority of Scripture and consequently a denying of the Scripture to be the Sole Rule of Faith For the Creed it is either a part of the Scripture or not a part if it be not a part of Scripture as indeed it is not then all the Articles of Faith in it being but a small abridgement of Christian Faith and so of necessity and in comparison of Scripture it selfe very obscure and Scanty are to be proved and illustrated from Scripture the Sole Rule of Faith and Tryall of all Truths Thirdly in Particular to beleeve Christs descent in Soule into hell locally must stand with some reason and analogy or proportion of Faith layd downe in the Scripture For Christ did or suffered nothing but the Scripture shews the Reason Cause and End of it For instance Isaiah Saith To us a Child is borne to us a Son is given So the Angel to the Shepheards To you is borne this day a Saviour which is Christ the Lord. This then shews the End of Christs Incarnation namely for our Salvation Then for his Death He was delivered up for our Sins And Forasmuch as the Children were partakers of flesh and blood he also himselfe likewise took part of the Same that through death he might destroy him that had the power of dâ—ath that is the Devil And deliver them who through feare of death were all their life time subject to bondage So for his Resurrection He rose againe for our Iustification So for his Ascention It was that he might send the Holy Ghost and goe to prepare a place in heaven for all his So for his Sitting at Gods right hand There he makes Intercession for his people rules as King his Church in preserving protecting governing his people and makeing his and their foes his Footstoole But for any such thing as Descent into hell neither is it found in the Scripture nor much lesse any reasons given there of it Indeed Peter Speaking of Christs Resurrection alledgeth Psal. 16. Thou wilt not leave my Soule in Hell So in the English In the Hebrew it is commonly taken for the Grave not for the place of the damned But will you take Peters exposition of it Speaking by Christs owne Spirit This saith he David Seeing before Spake of the Resurrection of Christ that his Soule was not left in Hell neither his flesh did see Corruption So then this place Psal. 16. was by the Holy Ghosts owne Interpretation a Prophecie of Christs Resurrection from the Grave and not of any Descent into Hell the place of the damned For he is not said to rise out of hell as you say he went downe into Hell nor to ascend out of Hell as you beleeve he descended into Hell Will you have a particular Article of Christs descent into Hell and shall you not need another Article for his Ascent out of Hell againe And the Apostle saith Christ descended Eis tà katótera mère tes ges to the lowest parts of the Earth which is spoken of his humiliation to the Death and the Grave but here is no word of his Descent into any such place as Hell the place of the damned But admit your Faith to be true that Christs Soule descended locally into Hell I aske to what end or purpose Can you shew any Reason from Scripture for this Will you say his Soule went thither to suffer Surely that had its Consummatum est upon the Crosse there it was finished Will you say he went to triumph over the Devil in his owne Dâ—nne That was also done on his Crosse as on his Triumphall Chariot And can you give any reason why Christ should descend into hell in regard of us What that so he might deliver our Soules out of Hell Surely this also was done in his Death And againe if it were necessary that Christs soule should goe locally into hell to deliver our soules then also it was necessary for his body to descend into hell to deliver our bodies from thence For he came to redeem our bodies as well as our soules Or what els can you Say Certainly what ever you can invent the Scripture will presently discover the vanity of it But for my part I dare beleeve nothing concerning Christ and my Salvation but what the Scripture hath revealed But the Scripture hath revealed no such thing as the Descent of Christs Soule into Hell locally But you will then object unto me Do I not beleeve my Creed and every Article in it I answere I doe Why then say you Doe I not beleeve the Article of Christs Descent into Hell I say I doe being understood or expounded according to the Scripture and the Analogy of Faith therein How is that Christ dyed and in his Passion he suffered the Torments of Hell in his Soule on the Crosse and in the Garden But his Descent into Hell is set after his buriall And doe you not know that the ancient Heathen used to put Hádes for the state of the dead So as katelthein eis hadou is to goe or to abide in the state of the dead which Christ did for 3. dayes and then arose againe and revived So as the Article shewes the continuance of Christs being dead and buried till his Resurrection Againe you know the Nicene Creed mentions onely Christs buriall and no Descent into Hell and Athanasius his Creed katelthen eis hadou He Descended into Hell without speaking a word of his buriall All which doe confirme what I say that christ in being buried remained so long in the State of the dâ—ad his soule seperated from his body and being said to Dâ—scend into Hell hades signifying also the Grave thereby is meant his being buried for so long a time till his rising againe As it is said in the next Article The third day â—e rose againe from the dead that is from the Grave where he abode in the state of the dead Now I have given
those plagues written therein and threatned against Reprobates and Devils shal be most certainly inflicted in beliefe whereof they tremble What have they this Faith given them of God and is the Holy Ghost the Sole Infuser of it or any Infuser of it at all And yet I say This historicall faith is that which you Speake of here For you do in that 16 th Section consisting of about 30 leaves in folio Speake of that Faith alone which beleeves the Scripture to be the word of God the onely subject of that long and tedious Discourse wherein you have spent so much sweat to so small purpose And the words immediately preceding doe shew this And your words immediately following are to confirme it which you alledge out of Stapleton Saying The Holy Ghost did not leave the Church in Generall nor the true members of it in particular without Grace to beleeve what himself had revealed and made credible Wherupon you inferre a little after Till the Spirit of God move the heart of man he cannot beleeve be the object never so credible Thus we see your mind at full what Faith what Gift of God what Grace this is which you Say none but the Holy Ghost giveth to his Church namely not that faith not that gift of God not that Grace not that worke of the Holy Ghost whereby a man comes to beleeve in Christ and to be indued with the Grace of Regeneration and Sanctification the proper worke and gift of the Holy Ghost whereof the Apostle speaketh in the fore-cited place but such a faith such a grace as the Councel of Trent professeth and aloweth and so that which Stapleton and all other Pontificials write of which is common to all wicked men and Reprobates as we have elswhere fully proved L. p. 75. The world cannot keep a man from going to weigh the Scripture at the Ballance of Reason whether it be the word of God or not For the word of God and the Book containing it refuse not to be weighed by Reason And pag. 76. For Reason by her own light can discover how firmely the Principles of Religion are true but all the light Shee hath will never be able to find them false P. 'T is â—rue that mans naturall Reason being not bridled by grace is so head-strong that the world it selfe cannot restrain it within its owne bounds but will be medling But yet though Reason be not excluded from giving her voyce and assent to the Scripture yet She must know her place She must come in the Reere of all and as a hand-maid not as a Mistresse Nor is it Reasons office to bring her ballance to weigh the Scriptures whether it be the word of God or not for herein She hath no negative voyce but onely of assent So as in this respect as a Judge Gods word refuseth to be weighed by Reason much lesse can it be true that Reason by her own light can discover how firmly the Principles of Religion are true For mans Reason being but Naturall and Gods word Supernaturall there is no proportion between them and Reason can no more judge of Scripture in this respect then a blind man can judge of colours So as Reason must not come in with her ballance and weights till a man be illuminated by the Scriptures themselves and by the Spirit of God and then being convinced of the truth thereof She gives her full assent that the Scripture is the word of God The Apostle saith The naturall man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God neither can he know them because they are Spiritually discerned How say you then That Reason by her own Light can discover how firmly the Principles of Religion are true Point blanke against the Apostle The Lord openeth the heart of Lydia to attend to the things spoken of Paul Now if the naturall man by the light of his naturall reason receiveth not nor is thereby capable of the things of the Spirit of God contained in the Scripture but that they are foolishnesse unto him untill God open the heart and reveale those things by his Spirit as the Apostle saith then Reason cannot judge of Scripture by her owne light For what is Reasons light in a naturall man Surely darknesse it selfe unto Spiritâ—all things Ye were once darknesse saith the Apostle Darknesse in the very abstract Mans naturall understanding and Reason darknesse And therefore as Christ saith If the light that is in thee be darknesse how great is that darknesse And Rom. 8.5 They that are after the flesh tà tes sarkòs phronousin doe savour the things of the flesh but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit Spirituall things are as unsavory to a naturall mans Reason as wholesome meat is to an aguish palate They are unto him morÃa foolishnesse saith the Apostle And Rom. 8.6 The wisdome of the flesh is death and ekthrà emnity against God and it is not subject to the Law of God neither indeed can be Ye saith Ieremy Every man is brutish in his own knowledge Can you then hale the Scripture to the barre of mans naturall Reason which is brutish to be judged by it whether it be Gods word or no And David saith Surely men of low degree are vanity Yea say you Men of low degree but not so men of high degree of learning and parts But take all with you Surely men of low degrâ—e are vanity and men of high degree are a lye to be layd in the ballance they are altogether lighter then vanity What men of low degree vanity and men of high degre a lye Yea Surely yea altogether lighter then vanity it selfe being â—ayd in the ballance But in what ballance In the uneven ballance with the false Scales of your naturall Reason No but in the Ballance and with the weights of the Sanctuary your Reason must be weighed And this ballance of the Sanctuary is the Scripture If then your Reason must be weighed at the ballance of the Scripture and there be found too light yea lighter then vanity yea altogether lighter then vanity yea Surely altogether lighter then vanity yea a very lye then what weights can your Reason bring being altogether lighter then vanity it selfe whereby to weigh the Scriptures Or how shall Reason which is a lye with her unequall Ballance and false weights weigh verity it selfe But if all this will not put you out of conceit of your naturall Reason as an incomptent Judge of Scripture to be the word of God which must needs argue the truth of Scripture that mans Reason is blindnes darknes emnity against the truth brutish vanity a ly altogether lighter then vanity it self give me leave a little to put you to it You perswade your selfe that you can by the strength and light of your naturall Reason judge or weigh the Scripture whether it be Gods word and discover how firmely the Principles of Religion
begin at the Tradition or Authority of the present Church or els there is no dealing with you But what if we shall propose a better manner and way of propounding the Scripture as a Credible object fit for beliefe And this we shall doe God assisting overthrowing your false way and vindicating the onely right and true safe and sure way that will certainly lead us to this beliefe That the Scripture is the word of God And for a ground hereof I lay down the Contradictory of your words for my true Position which is this That the light which is in Scripture it selfe is bright enough it can and doth of it selfe beware sufficient witnesse to it selfe For proofe hereof The Scripture is the witnesse of Christ as is said before and a witnesse must be a sufficient and competent witnesse without all exception els 't is rejected Now the Scripture is without all exception it is a holy true and faithfull witnesse free from all vice or defect It is pure and perfect so as it needs nothing to be added to it So Salomon Every word of God is pure Adde thou not unto his word least he reprove thee and thou be found a lyer Adde thou not Ergo it is a most perfect and competent witnesse Againe as the Scripture is every way a Competent and sufficient a perfect and Compleat witnesse without all exception So it brings full and cleare Evidence with it for that whereof it is a witnesse For this Salomon saith All the words of my mouth saith Wisdome are in righteousnesse there is nothing froward or perverse in them they are all plaine to him that understandeth and right to them that find knowledge The Scripture is plaine cleare and evident So Peter saith Ye have a bebaâ—oterón tòn prophetikon logon a most sure word of Prophecie whereunto you doe well that ye take heed as unto a light that shineth in a darke place The Scripture then is a most sure witnesse and it is a light that shineth The light is not in it as the fire in the flint but it a light shining forth as the light of the Sun Thy word saith David is a Lamp unto my feet and a Light unto my path And The entrance of thy words giveth light it giveth understanding unto the Simple The very first entrance or gate as the word signifieth of Gods word doth illuminate and give light it giveth understanding to the Simple the rude and ignorant it enlightneth the eyes Now all this could not be without a light that shineth and that clearely too such as upon the first entrance of it giveth light and understanding to the simple But how comes this light of the Scripture to shine forth I Answere First of its own proper nature Let but an unregenerate Man read the Scriptures and he shall feele such a Convincing light in them as he will perceive there is a Divine power in them But this light of Scripture by Gods owne appointment shines forth more bright and is more effectuall when it is preached Of this the Apostle saith If all prophecy that is preach the word of God as in that place and there come in one that beleeveth not or one unlearned he is convinced of all he is judged of all And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest and so falling down on his face he will worship God and report that God is in you of a truth Now whence is all this Conviction and Confession but from the power of Gods word preached So Heb. 4.12 The word of God is quicke and powerfull and sharper then any two edged Sword piercing even to the dividing asunder of Soule and Spirit and of the joynts and marrow and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart This this is that that dazleth mans clearest reason convinceth and confoundeth his Conscience and as a mighty Engine batters down and layes levell Strong holds and all high things that exalt themselves against the knowledge of God bringing into Captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ as the Apostle speakes And is Gods word the Scripture preached in the power and purity of it a discerner of the thoughts and intents of mans heart Then let that man tell me whether without any more testimony this be not the very word of God And that there is in it Theiónti a divine Spirit and power that thus can search into the inmost bowels and secrets of mans heart So as as the Samaritan woman said to her neighbour Come and see the man that hath told me all that ever I did is not he the Christ So a naturall man thus convinced and confounded by the power of Gods word and Secrets of his heart discovered may he not now truely report and say Come and heare that word which hath discovered unto me all the Secrets of my heart must not that needs be Gods owne word So as this Discovery is it not by that native operative effectuall and resplendent penetrating lihgt shining in the Scripture the beames whereof are displayed in the Ministry of this word of God what is it then that enforceth and even extorteth this assent and confession from a naturall man but the cleare evidence of Gods word preached that the Scripture is the word of God which is so preached And to bring this a little neerer home and set it closse against your owne Gate What Say you my Lord for I must deale plainly with you seeing you are so bold with the Scripture will you be tryed by this word of God whether it have not sufficient Light in it selfe and of it selfe even to convince your owne heart and Conscience that the Scripture is the word of God I say in and of it selfe without all those circumstances which you put as necessary previous inducements to this beliefe whereof your Church Authority is ever the Prime Will you be content but to make tryall of your selfe in this Case How is that Why doe but once come into some obscure poore Parish Church where there is a good Zealous and Orthodox Preacher and come disguised as Ahab at the Battell of Ramoth Gilead in a private manner not in your Pontificalibus with your long Sattentraine carried after you et magna comitante Caterva a troope of gallants at your heeles So as none takes notice of you much lesse the Preacher and come your selfe in person not sending your tà o'ta your Long Eares I meane your Scouts and Spies Informers Promoters Priests or Pursuivants Delators and Sycophants for these will seldome tell you the truth of things But I say come your selfe in a private disguise and so stand muffled up in the Croud and hearken diligently to the Preacher first how he doth o'rthotomein tòn lógon divide his text aright as it were anatomising and ripping up the bowels of it and then how fitly he grounds his docttrines or points of Instruction upon his
to all the faithfull As the Apostle Saith Whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope But on the other side this beliefe that the Scripture is the word of God being in a Reprobate or wicked man the stronger it is in a perswasion and conviction that it is Gods word and so a word of truth the greater terrour it strikes into him when he considers of those fearefull judgements punishments and torments of hell therein denounced against all impenitent persons As Felix trembled when he heard Paul reasoning of judgement to come And Agrippa said to Paul en olÃgo somewhat or almost thou perswadest me to be a Christian when Paul had said unto him Beleevest thou the Prophets I know that thou beleevest So that a wicked man may be throwly convinced in his Conscience that the Scripture is the word of God he may certainly be perswaded of it and that hoes en horámati as a thing visibly before him and he apprehends it as too true But that place of the Apostle We see here dì ainìgmatos as through a darke Saying it is not to be applyed to this Faith that is in a wicked man For the Apostle there speakes of true beleevers We Saith he now doe see through a glasse darkly but then face to face now I know in part but then shall I know even as also I am known So as there he speakes of the estate of the godly here comparatively to their estate of glory hereafter and that concerning their knowledge and spirituall vision of God here and hereafter Here we doe with Moses see but Gods back parts in comparison to that we shall see when we shall see him face to face here we know him at the best but imperfectly but then we shall know even as we are knowne in full perfection And yet so great and glorious is our knowledge of God in the State of Grace that the Apostle saith We all with open face beholding as in a glasse the glory of the Lord are changed into the same Image from glory to glory even as by the spirit of the Lord. So glorious is the Image of Christ in every new-Creature or regenerate man had men but eyes to see it But this by the way On the other side againe as some naturall and morall men may have a certaine evidence of an Historicall Faith thus farre that the Scripture is the word of God and so he trembleth at it So others again and such as think themselves great Clerks and glorious Priests may perhaps see but en skotómati blindly in a brainsick miorim or giddinesse so as their head swimming with wâ—imses the eyes of their understanding being darkened or rather blinded with the god of this world they imagine the world goes round with them and while they so much dispute of the Authority of the present Church in clearing a mans understanding to beleeve the Scripture to be the word of God the conclusion is that they can bring never a good Evidence to prove that themselves have any faith at all You goe on and Say Now God doth not require a full demonstrative knowledge in us that the Scripture is his word and therefore in his Providence hath kindled in it no light for that but he requires our faith of it and such a certaine demonstration as may fit that When shall vaine words have an end as Iob Speaks You have reproched the Scripture these 10 times and therein blasphemed God and are not ashamed as he Speaks in another Case God doth not require Say you a full demonstrative knowledge in us that the Scripture is his word No Doth he not But he requireth such a faith in us which hath in it a full demonstration of knowledge For such is Saving Faith whereof we formerly Spake it is a demonstration of things not seen it is a plerophorÃa a full assurance Now whereon is this faith grounded Is it not grounded upon the Scripture And if this full demonstration of faith be grounded on the Scripture is there not such a full demonstrative knowledge in the Scripture For alwayes the Foundation must have a full latitude and depth proportionable to beare up the building which is layd upon it Faith then being a full demonstration and the Scripture being the foundation of it the Scripture then must have in it a full demonstrative knowledge and if such a full demonstrative knowledge be in the Scripture God requires in us also such a full demonstrative knowledge as is sutable to that full demonstration of Faith As the Apostle saith I know whom I have beleeved And our Saviour joynes knowledge and faith together saying That ye may know and beleeve And so the Apostle speaking of beleevers saith Which beleeve and know the truth And that which in other places is attributed to faith is Ioh. 13.3 attributed to knowledge This is life eternall that they may know thee the onely true God and Iesus Christ whom â—hou hast sent And the act of beleeving is typed out by an act of the eye in seeing to shew that beleeving is a seeing and knowing As Joh. 3.14 15. As Moses lifted up the Serpent in the wildernesse even so must the Sonne of Man be lifted up that whosoever beleeveth in him should not perish but have eternall life Where beleeving in Christ lifted up upon his Crosse hath relation to those in the wildernesse who being stung with the fiery Serpents looked up upon the brazen Serpent upon the Pole which Moses by Gods appointment lifted up and looking upon it they lived There being then such an affinity or rather unity or union between Faith and knowledge Faith being a certain knowledge of the thing beleeved which is the Scripture and faith being begotten by the word of God which is therfore call'd the word of Faith both because it is the seed of Faith and the ground wherin it is rooted and every seed having in it the nature of that which springeth of it it necessarily followeth that there is in the Scripture a full demonstrative knowledge and consequently God requireth in us such a full demonstrative knowledge as whereby we are fully assured and know certainly that the Scripture is the very word of God And this full demonstrative knowledge is in true Faith which apprehending and imbracing Christ the beleever by the same Faith doth know assuredly that that Scripture by the heareing wherof preached he came to beleeve is the very word of God And there is such a necessity of this full demonstrative knowledge to be in every beleever it is both de esse of the beâ—ing of a beleever and also de bene esse of his well-beeing That it is of the beeing of a beleever we have proved out of Scripture because it is of the very beeing of Faith And secondly it is necessary for
the Scripture doth suo jure vindicare challenge as her own right and which no man can take from her And if Theologie must borrow or begge this principle Of whom Of the Tradition of the Church Beware of that For then the Borrower should be servant to be Lender as Solomon saith And to Begge it were worse But if Theologie have this principle of her owne and it in the Scriptures possession what need she goe either to begge or borrow it and that of those who can neither give or lend it And if this be a Principle that Scripture 〈◊〉 the word of God What use of your Church Tradition For Principles are not to be denied But you denying that this can be beleeved without the Tradition of the present Church doe first induce unto it then you are one of those that deny Principles And Contra negantem Principia non est disputandum we are not to dispute against him that denyeth Principles but in this case to hold him as an Heretick and to deale with him as the Apostle admonisheth A man that is an Hereticke after the first and second Admonition reject knowing that he that is such is subverted and sinneth being a'utokatákritos selfe-condemned L. p. 105. The evidence of supernaturall Truths which Divinity teaches appeares not so manifest as that of the Naturall though in themselves more sure and infallible P. Appeares not true indeed to a naturall man Here you speake by experience But to the spirituall man this evidence appeares very clearely for as the Apostle saith The Naturall man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishnesse unto him Neither can â—e know them because they are spiritually discerned But he that is spirituall judgeth all things as Solomon also saith Evill men understand not judgement But they that seeke the Lord understand all things L. p. 106. Faith is a mixed Act of the Will and the understanding and the Will inclines the understanding to yeeld full approbation to that whereof it sees not full proof Not but that there is full proofe of them But because the maine grounds which prove them are concealed from our view and folded up in the unrevealed Councel of God God in Christ resolving to bring mankind to their last happinesse by Faith and not by Knowledge That so the weakest among men may have their way to blessednesse open P. 'T is true that Faith being the life of the soule anima animae as Aug. speaks doth informe and quicken all the faculties thereof as the Will Understanding Reason Affections so as the Will doth no more incline the Vnderstanding to assent this being the opinion of those Schoolmen that hold the Will to be the seat of Faith as others do hold the Vnderstanding Then the Vnderstanding doth the Will or Reason the Affections But Faith being that Grace which quickneth the whole soule and in it all the faculties as aforesaid it is this Faith Principally that inclineth all the whole soule with all its faculties to yeeld their unanimous assent unto it And yet I deny not a mutuall reciprocation and interchangeable cooperation which is between these faculties as in the naturall man so in the spirituall man regenerate by faith For as in the naturall man somtimes the Vnderstanding inclines the Will somtimes the Will the Vnderstanding sometimes Reason inclines the Affections and somtimes the Affections incline Reason and that oftentimes with great violence to a wrong object the like working there is among the sanctified faculties of the soule Regenerate somtimes the Vnderstanding inclining the Will somtimes the Will the Vnderstanding and sometimes the Affections incline both as the Apostle saith speaking of zeale for God Whether we be besides our selves it is to God or whether we be sober it is for your Cause For the love of Christ constraineth us And the affections of the Apostle towards Christ were so strong in him that they carryed his Vnderstanding Will and Reason along with them with strong hand when notwithstanding he was told of dangers yea bonds abiding him at Ierusalem and earnestly desired of his Friends not to goe thither he answered What meane ye to weep and to breake mine heart For I am ready not to be bound onely but also to dye at Ierusalem for the Name of the Lord Iesus And Christ himselfe was so full of holy Zeale and strong Affections as he was carryed with a wonderfull violence of them insomuch as they said of him that he was madde And his friends one time went to lay hold on him saying he was besides himselfe And many of Christ his Servants his Ministers being carryed with a strong love of Christ and zeale for his glory expressed in their courragious witnessing of the truth against wicked men the enemies thereof although their Vnderstanding apprehend the danger and their Will could be content to live in peace yet the Affection here carries all along with it and they willingly follow because the same Faith guides and carries all along with it whence it comes to passe that the affection here to Christ and to truth being as it were the Leader of the rest the Vnderstanding Reason and Iudgement least appearing in the sence of the world men are thereupon so apt and prone to Censure such Ministers of indiscretion But this may shew the inward opperation of the faculties of a regenerate soule how one works upon another reciprocally and one inclines another somtimes the superiour faculties the inferiour and somtimes the inferiour the superiour but Faith is the principall agent working in and inclining all It is not then the Will that alwayes inclines the Vnderstanding but the Grace of Faith which infused doth at once both illuminate incline and draw both the Will and Vnderstanding to rest in the saving truth of God apprehended by Faith This Faith I say doth so illuminate the whole soule with all its faculties as that it selfe brings meat in the mouth as ye say even a full proofe in it selfe of the things beleeved so as now not onely the affiance of the Will but the affiance and certain knowledge of the Vnderstanding doe rest themselves in the cleare evidence which Faith it selfe bringeth with it which evidence hath the ample and sure Testimony both of the word of God and of the Spirit of God whose worke it is For this saving Faith never goes alone but is both ushered in and wrought and accompanied with the word and Spirit of Christ. For so soon as Faith is conceived in the soule it unites to Christ and so it hath communion with Christ together with his Spirit mimediately so as both the Will and the Vnderstanding and the whole soule heart and affections so soon as Faith possesseth them which Faith is a plerophoria full assurance of the things beleeved and a cleare evidence of them though not seen as before is shewed there is withall exhibited both in and with Faith a full sufficient
non sinit esse sui Some secret sweetnesse in mans native home Draws him to mind it still where ere become L. Ibid. In a corrupt Time or Place 't is as necessary in Religion to deny falshood as to assert and vindicate truth Indeed this latter can hardly be well and sufficiently done but by the former an affirmative verity being ever included in the negative to a falshood P. Then I hope in a corrupt Time and Place is it not necessary in Religion to deny your falshoods and to assert and vindicate the Truth by you so undermined and oppugned And your own Words here are sufficient to leave your Deeds without excuse L. p. 157. If it be a Cause common to both parties a third must judge and that is the Scripture or if there be jealousie or doubt of the sense of the Scripture they must either both repaire to the exposition of the Primitive Church and submit to that or both call and submit to a Generall Councel P. The Scripture That 's honest as I noted before Yea and submit to and rest in that which you say not But of the Scripture the onely Judge of all Controversies we have spoken sufficiently before and so for matters of jealousie or doubt and not either to your Primitive Church or to a Generall Councel For further Answere we shall have further occasion L. p. 171. Pope Urban 2 at the Councel held at Bari in Apâ—lia accounted my Worthy Predecessor S. Augustine as his own compâ—â—â—e and said He was as the Apostolicke and Patriarch of the other world so he then turned this Iland P. As worthy as your predecessor Anselme was and though now one of Romes Saints yet he was against your Priests Marriage But perhaps therfore the more worthy And he was so holy it seems that he said he never repented him of any thing in all his life but about the eating of some Fish one time But if the Pope gave your Worthy Predecessor the Title of Apostolicke and Patriarch of the other world of England why should not the same Title descend to his successors And it seems you are not a little affected with it For you say A Primate is greater then a Metropolitan and a Patriarch then a Primate And none were above Patriarch but Pope If then you succeed Anselme in his Patriarchate of the other world you are in the next degree to succeed him that is Papa totius Orbis But how ever you glory in these titles I assure you for my part I shall ever preferre a good honest Cobler that feares God above them all For he hath an honest calling you none And you all are persecuters of them that truly feare God and so enemies of Christ. And though you would be called Apostolicke yet to be Metropolitan Primate Patriarch Pope are all swelling Titles of pride which the Apostles never knew and which Christ expresly forbids as hath been noted and will be more As followeth L. p. 175. The calling and Authority of Bishops over the Inferiour Clergy that was a thing of known use and benefit for preservation of unity and peace in the Church P. For this you cite Hierome But you omit his other words where he saith That your Diocesan Bishops for of such onely the Question is were brought in but humana praesumptione non Institutione Divina by humane Presumption not by Divine Institution or Gods Ordinance and this as men presumed in Schismata remedia for a remedy of Schisme But it proved to be Schisma magnum the Great Schisme that made up the body of Antichrist the Great Rent from Christ filling up the Mystery of Iniquity as hath been shewed And out of Ieromes Sacerdos Priest where he saith No Priest no Church you conclude in the Margent so even with him No Bishop no Church As if to be a Priest must needs be a Bishop And idid you say This was to settle in the minds of men from the very Infancy of the Christian Church as that it had not been to that time contradicted by any In the very Infancy of the Church But your Prelacy was but an Infant then and Innocent in comparison to the Giants now We shewed before how this Mystery wrought even in the Apostles times which they knockt down yet still Satan kept it afoot The use of it hath great Antiquity but the Apostles condemned it as a meere abuse and Christ as Heathenish And you talke here of use but you are not able to shew us any Authority from Scripture either from Apostolik Ordinance and Example The Apostles indeed before Christs Resurrection were blindly ambitious of being chief in Christs Kingdome and Christ told his two kinsmen Iames and Iohn They asked they knew not what and yet Mark tells us that Christ asking them what they reasoned of by the way they were ashamed to tell him as being selfe-guilty of pride and ambition and still when he had but newly told them of his Passion to be at Ierusalem they not understanding what it meant were still at it afresh who should be the chiefe but after that Christ was risen again and his holy Spirit was breathed into them then they were of another mind they never after contended who should be chiefest but rather who should be â—umblest and hoâ—yest and most painfull and faithfull in the spirituall Kingdome of Christ in the execution of their Apostolicall Charge Which argues plainly that the Prelacy is a meere carnall thing a temporall Kingdome contrary to Christs Kingdome which carnall men voyd of Christs Spirit and Grace are blindly ambitious of calling their Prelacy an Hierarchy or hoâ—y Government or Kingdome but know not what holinesse or Christs Kingdome meaneth And doe we see any men in the world of any ranke whatsoever more Lordly more proud more ambitious more covetous more profane more corrupt then those of the Hierarchy Take the best of them now in England the most learned of them have they any zeale or courage for the truth now when they see Religion and the Faith of Christ turned topsie-turvie Doe they not all seeke their own not that which is Iesus Christs And when your Chapleins gueld their Works have they any virility left in them to maintain the truth of that which they have written If their Metropolitan doe but speake the word is it not with them as in the Comedy of the Parasite Ait quis Aio Negat Nego But what say I of those Prelates that are fallen upon the very Lees and Dregges of the worst and last times Alas in the first Generall Councell of Nece under Constantine in the Infancy of the Church as you call it what hot contentions among the Prelates one against another What bundels and fardels of complaints brought they into the Councel before Constantine Enough to set all in a combustion had not the Emperour the more wisely put all their Bills and mutuall complaints in a combustion by burning them in a faire fire
Moris-dances teach us Nemo saltat sobrius could the very Heathen say No man Danceth that is sober And as an English Author saith licenced too but in diebus illis A Dancer and a mad man different but in the duration And to helpe to shake this Foundation yet more you have licenced Books that do unmoralize the Fourth Commandement as before as antiquated now and of no force to bind us Christians to the observation of a seventh day or the Lords day which we have proved before to be the Rest-day or the Sabbath day of the Lord our God Iesus Christ. And did not your Tyranny suppresse all Truth all your Doctors had been ere now answered to the shame of their Divinity-Profession and the confusion of their accursed Opinions and Blasphemies against the holy Truth and eternall Law of God Well here you are charged with shaking this Great Foundation of Faith and Religion And though my Name be not here to the Bill which therfore you wil be ready by another Bill to make a Libell yet as I sayd before I say againe let the King be but pleased to send forth a Proclamation commanding the Author of this Charge to come forth and avouch it before the High and Honourable Court of Parliament where he shall have a faire just unpartiall and honourable hearing and where your Lordship shall as well stand at the Barre as your Accuser and you shall see your Antagonist dare shew his face But to prevent the trouble of Calling a Parliament you will answere this is none of Your doing 't is the Kings Edict and of King Iames before him and now by the Kings speciall command republished Is it so And therein are the Foundations of Faith and Good Manners shaken And that not onely in overthrowing the Morality of the 4 th Commâ—ndement by Dispensaton of profane sports but by dispensing with youth to use their libâ—rty on that day without controule of their Superiours as Parents or Masters who if they shall hinder them the Magistrate shall punish them and so the 5 th Commandement which is a Foundation of Good Manners in all obedience due to Superiours is shaken if not pull'd down to the ground as the Aprentices of London were wont on Shrove-Tuesday to pull down Infamous houses Is all this so Why then did you not step in as good Azariah and withstand the coming forth of such an Edict and tell the King It pertaineth not to Thee ô King to set forth such an Edict to dispense wâ—th Gods Holy Morall Eternall Commandements whereby the Foundations of Faith and Good Manners are shaken least thereby shaking the Foundations both of Church and Common-Wealth you doe through Gods just wrath bring your own Kingdome to suddain ruine But did you at all interpose your selfe Or did you use Prayer and Patience rather undergoing the Kings displeasure then being either Agent or Instrument in the publishing of such an Edict No such thing For it was the handsel of your Primacy to publish the Edict as being the best Office whereby you could testifie your thankfullnesse for so high a Preferment For why should you here leave the King alone in so weighty a Cause when you tell us before that the King and the Priest more then any other are bound to looke to the Integrity of the Church in Doctrine and Manners and that in the first place And would you now leave the King in the lurch to doe that whereby the Foundations of Faith and Good Manners are shaken and the Church in Doctrine and Manners corrupted But you were an Instrument at least and that at both endâ— of the businesse As for Prayer and Patience you were willing to leave them to others that had more need and could make better use of them to wit those poore honest Ministers who seeing the danger of their publicke reading of the said Booke in their severall Congregations so straightly imposed by the Prelates and thâ—inâ— the Kings Name wherein they well understood that the very Foundations of Faith and Good Manners are shaken so as their reading of it to their people would make themselves accesâ—ary to all the mischiefe that might come thereby as whereby the wrath of God must needs be greatly incensed against the whole Land did thereupon refuse to read it committing the Cause to God in Prayer and arming themselves with resolved Patience to indure all the Censure and punishment threatned in the Booke and left to be inflicted by the Bishops As not long after the Bishops thunderclap of threatning they feele the thunderbolt it selfe by Suspension Silencing Excommunication Dispossession out of their Benefices Cures Houses Freeholds Dispersion of Family Wife and Children now exposed to the wide world and made a Prey to Wolves and Lyons Here is indeed the Patience and Faith of the Saints Here is use of their spirituall Armour Prayer Patience Teares the onely weapons of their warfaire against such enemies so as if Solomon the Preacher were now alive he might see his words as truly and fully verified in these times as ever they were in his I returned saith he and considered all the Oppressions that are done under the Sun and behold the teares of such as were oppressed and they had no Comforter and on the side of their Oppressors there was power but those had no Comforter But it is well that you left the poore soules those weapons which you could not take from them but with their lives Prayer and Patience Although how doe you labour to deprive them even of Prayer when you will not suffer them to pray together that suffer together in and for the same Cause but your Beagles hunt them out And would you not reduce all Prayer and conjure down the very Spirit of Prayer by confining it to the prescript letter and form in your Service Book where there is never a Prayer for poore afflicted and distressed soules in such a Case complaining of the Bishops Cruelty and Tyranny over them So as you see they patiently suffer they use no opposition by force And yet what say you to one of your Predecessors who when the King would not agree to his Nobles in the casheering of his Favorites who were his Privy Councellors to the ruine of his Realme he being then but Lord Elect of Canterbury took with him his Clergy and went to the King and threatned him if he would not yeeld in the matter he would Excommunicate him Neither I suppose are you of opinion with once a Brother of Winchester who in a Book of his published by Authority and Printed at Oxford hath these words If a Prince should goe about to subject his Kingdome to a forraigne Realme or change the forme of the Common-wealth from Empery to Tyranny or neglect the Laws establlished by common consent of Prince and People to execute his own Pleasure In these and other Cases which might be named If the Nobles and Commons joyne together
and needs the Churches mouth and if it be dead as being not living Certainly it can be no fit Iudge at all except ye will admit of a Judge that is both blind and dumb and dead As three Romans being sent in Ambassage one a Foole an other a Coward the third having the Gout Cato told the Senate they had sent an Ambassage that had neither Head Heart nor Feet And such a Judge would you make the Scripture But 't is visible you say So are your dumb dead and blind Images in your Churches they are visible and very conspicuous when the Scripture oftentimes can neither be seen nor heard Now to your Generall Councels L. p. 192. And surely what greater or surer Iudgement can we have where sense of Scripture is doubted then a Generall Councel I do not see And pag. 211. The making of Canons which must bind all particular Christians and Churches cannot be concluded and established but there to wit in a Generall Councel P. 224. I said The Determination of a Generall Councel erring was to stand in force and to have externall obedience yeelded to it till evidence of Scripture or a Demonstration to the Contrary made the errour appeare and untill thereupon another Councel of equall Authority did reverse it And pag. 226. Now suppose a Generall Councel actually erring in some point of Divine Truth I hope it will not follow that this Errour must be so grosse as that forthwith it must be known to private men And doubtlesse till they know it obedience must be yeelded Nay when they know if the Errour be not manifestly against fundamentall verity in which case a Generall Councel cannot easily erre I would have A. C. and all wise men consider whether externall obedience be not even then to be yeelded And p 227 Therfore it may seem very fit and necessary for the peace of Christendome that a Generall Councel thus erring should stand in force till evidence of Scripture or a Demonstration make the errour to appeare as that another Councel of equall Authority reverse it And ibid. No way must lye open to private men to refuse obedience till the Councel he heard and weighed And p. 261. A Councel hath power to order settle and define Differences arisen concerning Faith This power the Councel hath not by an immediate Institution from Christ but it was prudently taken up in the Church from the Apostles example Act 15. And ibid. If the Councel be lawfully Called and proceed orderly and conclude according to the Rule the Scripture then the Dâ—finitions therof are binding but not from calling another Councel to reverse or abrogate the former Asts upon just cause P. 346. 'T is true that a Generall Councel de pace facto after 't is ended and admitted by the whole Church is then Infallible for it cannot erre in that which it hath already clearly and truely determined without Errour After 't is confirmed 't is admitted by the whole Church then being found true it is also Infallible that is it deceâ—ves no man And p. 347. For a man upon the pride of his own Iudgement to refuse externall obedience to the Councel was never lawfull nor can error stand with any Government P. 357.358 Christ did just intend to leave an Infallible certainty in his Church to satisfie either Contentious or Curious or presumptuous spirits And therfore in things not fundamentall nor necessary 't is no matter if Councels erre in one and another and a third the whole Church having power and meanes enough to see that no Councel erre in necessary things c. If it erre in things necessary we can be Infallibly assured by the Scripture the Creed the 4. first Councels and the whole Church where it erres in one and not in another And pag. 360 For one Faith necessary to Salvation a most infallible certainty we have already in the Scripture the Creeds and the 4. first Generall Councels to which for things necessary and fundamentall in the Faith we need no assistance from other Generall Councels P. 378. I submit my Iudgement with all humility to the Scripture interpreted by the Primitive Church and upon new and necessary doubts to the judgement of a lawfull and free Generalâ— Councel And I absolutely make a lawfull and free Generall Councel Iudge of Controversies by and according to the Scripture And p. 386. I have expresly declared that the Scripture interpreted by the Primitive Church and a lawfull and free Generall Councel determining according to these is judge of Controversies P. Thus in your Commending of Generall Councels you are very large that I may not say lavish too And surely in one respect especially you have great Reason for your Generall Councels must consist of Prelates onely so as in exalting Generall Councels you magnifie your Prelacie But I remember a saying of Basill that in his Observation he never knew any good to come of Generall Councels of Bishops who when they met in Councel were more zealous and eagre for their own particular Honours and Dignities then of the Church of God And as Bernard saith Totus fervet Ecclesiastiâ—us zelus sola pro Dignitate tuendâ— All the zeale of Church-men is infâ—amed altogether for the advancing and upholding of their Dignity But let us now take a briefe view of your words which we will collect and reduce to certain summary Heads First That Generall Councels are the supreme Iudge of the sense of Scripture when and where 't is doubted p. 192. Secondly that the Canons and Decrees of Generall Councels bind all Christians of necessity p. 211. Thirdly yea though Generall Councels determine Errors yet that requires at least externall obedience Fourthly That Generall Councels erring in some points of Divine Truth yet you hope it will not be so grosse as to come to the common view or if it doe yet obedience must be yeelded p. 226. onely except the Error be not manifestly against the fundamentall Verities Fifthly That a Generall Councel hath no power from Christ to be Iudge in Controversies but the Church prudently tooke it up from the Apostles example Act. 15. Sixtly That the Difinitions of Generall Councels bind being according to the Rule the Scripture yet that those may be reversed by an after-Councel Seventhy A Generall Councel in things clearely and truly determined cannot erre but in that is infallible Eightly That it is pride not to obey the Councels Difinitions yea unlawfull and not standing with any Government Ninthly That Christ intended to leave an Infallible certainty in his Church but not to satisfie contentions or curious or presumptuous spirits Tenthly That it is no matter if Generall Councels erre in one two three c. things not fundamentall nor necessary Eleventhly That for necessary Faith to Salvation we have an Infallible certainty in the Scriptures Creeds and 4. first Generall Councels to which for things necessary we need not the Assistance of any other Generall Councel Twelfthly That the Scripture interpreted by the
they renounce all such lords Aske them againe why they subject their Consciences soules and bodies to the will and lust of man in will-worship forbidden by the Apostle ô they answere they never knew that before and now that they know it they repent of it and from henceforth they renounce it and resolve to loose rather life and all then they will doe so any longer Thus even a good Christian through ignorance may for a time in a dangerous errour but so soon as he is convinced of it he will not for all the world continue in it So he that hath true saving faith in Christ resting on Christs merits alone for his justification he neither will nor can be brought to beleeve that he must be justified by his works For this is against the very nature of saving faith which rests onely on Christ renouncing all other respects So that 't is impossible that any true member of Christ should by any errour be so seduced as to be seperated from Christ for he is preserved by the spirit of Grace by the power of God through faith unto salvation So that as the whole body of the Church of Christ so every particular member of this body hath the certaine and infallible seale of the Spirit of Truth given him of Christ according to his promise purpose and intention for all truth absolutely necessary to salvation having both his Spirit and word to guide them into all truth Finally 't is very true being taken in a true sence that Christ never intended to leave an infallible certainty in his Church to satisfie either contentious or curious or presumptuous spirits And if not presumptuous spirits certainly not such spirits as usurpe a Prelaticall and Lordly Authority and to sit as visible Iudges of Scripture in Generall Councels imposing upon all men a servile yoake of obedience to their Decrees whether right or wrong true or false Nay to such presumptuous spirits God hath given eyes not to see and hath made their hearts fat not to understand the truth not to see the light that shineth in his word and therfore they say it is darke and speake disgracefully of it So as the presumptuous is properly yours As for the contentious and curious these are they that contend for the truth against your undermining and oppugning of it and are curious â—o search and sound the bottome of that Mystery of Iniquity which is cunningly yet grosly enough folded up in the voluminous leaves of this your Booke So as for these so contentious and curious Christ did intend to leave an Infallible certainty in his Church to satisfie them and to assure them of the Truth so as not all the opposition and contradiction in the world can beate them from it To the Tenth you make no matter of it if Generall Câ—uncels erre in one or a second or a third so it be not in things necessary In other cases it makes no matter if they erre And what matter is it then if there be none of your Generall Councel at all For you confesse that they may possibly though not easily erre in things necessary and in fundamentall points of Faith and yet obedience must be given If then it be no matter if in other things they erre onâ—e twice thrice yea or if you will in a hundred things take all these together and the world should be free from many dangers if it were rid of Generall Councels altogether But in the meane time you make no matter of it if in so erring they load the world with an intollerable burthen of errours which all men must bow their necks under till another Generall Councel doe free them and perhaps in stead of freeing them may lay as much more load upon them Truly my Lord if you had not a liberty to talk with your pen what you please and a strong opinion also that whatsoever you write or speake must needs be of every body highly applauded as if all you write were Oracles you would never have suffered such foule blots to have dropped from your pen. But 't is no matter If you erre in this and that and another c. aswell as your Generall Councels so as we knowing them may not in obeying or assenting erre with you To the Eleventh you say for necessary faith to salvation we have the Scriptures Creeds 4 first Generall Councels So then being furnisht of necessaries what need we any more I think the Apostles rule for temporall things may hold well in spirituall he saith having food and rayment let us therewith be content So Having all things necessary for faith to salvation let us use these well and bâ— content not affecting to be loaden with a multitudo of humane devises which Prelaticall Councels Courts and Canons put upon us And are Generall Councels so Cheape as that you should keep such a doe having no Necessaries to trouble them withall But it seems you have some other necessaries besides those of faith that will require a Generall Councel For you tell us pag 211. The setling of the Divisions of Christendome as the reconciling of England with Rome the making of Canons which must bind aâ—l particular Christians and Churches cannot be concluded 〈…〉 but there to wit in a Generall Councel Why but there For the Church of England you may doe what you please onely you desire perhaps a Generall Councel to conclude for Altars and other utensils and so ease your shoulders of the envy and crime of Innovation but for that also you have a sufficient put off as is shewed before But the reconciliation and setling of the Divisions of Christendome will conclude all But still the Scripture with you is not alone sufficient for necessary faith to salvation without the Creed and at least the 4 first Generall Councels Why was the Scripture before there were any either Creeds or Councels And was not the Scripture then alone sufficient for all things necessary to salvation The Creeds and Councels are not to be added to the Scripture as if without them it were not an absolute and compleat Rule As for the Creeds they were for the summe and substance of them extracted from Scripture and must still be reduced to Scripture for their true sense and interpretation as before And for the Decrees of the 4 Generall Councels we approve of them no further then the Scripture warrants them And therfore though Twelfthly you humbly submit to the Scripture as it is interpreted by the Primitive Church and Generall Councels and not els yet we submit our faith onely to the Scripture as it is interpreted by it selfe and by the spirit of Christ speaking and breathing in it which by the Scripture interprets the Scripture unto us as Augustine doth well observe in his Second Book de Doctrina Christiana And herein you shew your faith not to be Divine but humane as which you submit not meerly to the Scripture but unto the Iudgment of men as
confirming of them and establishing of the throne of the Beast and power of Antichrists Kingdome against Iesus Christ. Nor were it a hard matter to demonstrate this by many instanecs which for the present I omit In the meane time How prove you here your As little Question Or how come you to name This spirit of Truth in the Scripture What after all that you have said before of the Scripture that it is not bright enough that it hath no light till it be lighted by the Authority of the present Church and the like come you now to confesse that The spirit of Truth is in the Scripture Told you us not a while agoe That the Scripture is no living Iudge What not living when the spirit of Truth breaths in it Is not the spirit in the Scripture living And is not a Iudge a living Iudge when and while his spirit is in him What nothing but absurd and sencelesse contradictions with you Nothing but Babilonish language But thus we may see into what gulfes of perplexities they plunge themselves that presume and undertake to exalt their high imaginations against the Truth of God And you say againe A Generall Councel hath not this Assistance to Infallibility but as it keeps to the whole Church and Spouse of Christ whose it is to heare his word and determine by it As it keeps closse Why is it not your Catholicke Churches Representative How can it then but keep closse being of the same Body and spirit with your Church Secondly speaking here of the whole Church the Spouse of Christ you doe equivocate applying that to a false Church which is univocè univocally proper and peculiar to the misticall body of Christ. For your whole is Prelaâ—icall that of the Hierarchy and none other which we have before proved to be the Synagogue of Antichrist which heareth not Christs voyce but as your Church is pleased to interpret it and to give it Authority And that which you say of your Generall Councâ—ls may be truly said of any particular Assembly two or three met in Christs name which doth not erre being led by the spirit of Truth in the Scripture Christ himselfe according to his Promise being in the midst of them No nor yet any particular single Beleever erreth being so led So as you speake to no purpose when you say A Generall Councel cannot erre in that wherin it hath already determined according to the Scripture the vanity wherof we shewed before But the conclusion is you still leave the the Infallibility of your Generall Councel unresolved upon yea and nay sometimes affirming somtimes denying except your negative be according to that Rule in Logicke That one Negative is of more Force then a thousand Affirmatives L. p. 213. Sect. 27. My Answere was That the Councel of Trent was not onely not legall in the necessary conditions to be observed in a Generall Councel but also that it was no Generall Councel P. Though this be true you say yet the Councel of Trent was so legall according to Romes own Law that it wanted no conditions observable to make it in that behalfe not onely a legall but a Generall Councel too And secondly so Generall for the Romane Catholicke Church of Rome that all the Decrees thereof doe bind all Papists to a necessary obedience and conformity unto them and that under Anathema And your Rule is That a Generall Councells Decrees and Canons bind all Christians and a Provinciall Councels Decrees bind all of that Province And therfore I hope you will grant that the Papall Councel of Trent is of force to bind all Papists who acknowledge and accept the Pope for their Head or Primate So as though it were not a Generall Councel in the largest sense yet it was a Generall Councel for the Roman Catholicke Church which say they is the onely Catholicke Church And with which say you the Church of England is one and the same Now this I doe here touch by the way as whereof I shall have occasion to make some use anon though perhaps your thus Arguing against the generallity of Trents Councels is one of those Passages which you think may be an ingredience of the salve of your Reputation But this I say by the way L. p. 227. It may seem very fit and necessary for the Peace of Christendome that a Generall Councel thus Erring should stand in force till evidence of Scripture or c. P. This passage I cited before upon occasion among sundry other of like nature and now I repeat it onely for this to shew how your zeale for Peace made you forget Truth For still you are telling us of Peace and Truth or Truth and Peace But here your Peace stands single without Truth What Peace without Truth For you say It may seem very fit and necessary for the Peace of Christendome that a Generall Councell erring should stand in force What will you force a Peace against Truth by an Authorised errour O blush for shame L. p. 254. Suppose they Key of Doctine be to let in Truth and shut out errour and suppose the Key rightly used infallible in this yet this infallibility is primeâ—y in the Church in whose person not strictly in his own S. Peter received the Keys P. Suppose Do you make it but a supposit on that the key of Doctrine is to let in Truth and shut out Errour So it seems with you when you use that Key of your Doctrine to shut out Truth and let in errour as both your Practises and writings do shew But what is this Key of Doctrine Is it not the sincere Preaching of Gods word And then this Key is rightly used and here is the use therof Infallible But say you this Infallibility is primely in the Church How Can we get no other language from you Still all Primely in the Church Certainly not at all in your Antichristian Church where the spirit of errour raigneth and where the whole bunch of Keys hangeth at the Prelates gâ—râ—le As Pope Paschall 2. when he rode in Pompe had his seven Keys hanging at his girdle the Chiefe wherof was to open and shut Paradise to whom he pleased But we say still that this infallibility is primely in the Scripture and not in the Church not in Christs own Church For the Scripture containes that infallible Truth which the Ministeriall key Christs own ordinance and voyce openeth to the Church or Congregation of Gods people And this Ministeriall key Christ committed to Peter not simply as sustaining the person of the whole Church but chiefly and properly as he was an Apostle and Minister of Christ to preach the Gospel in which respect also he might represent the person of all faithfull Ministers of the Gâ—spel rightly and truly called to the Function to whom Christ did in Peter as afterward he did in all the Apostles commit and entrust the key of knowledge of the Doctrine of Christ to be used and imployed to that end to
answered Tamen Romanus est yet he is a Romanist And this Romanist is like the Colloquintida in the pot of pottage of which the young Prophets said to Elizeus Ther 's death in the pot Or like the flye in the Apothecaries box of oyntment it marres and corrupts the whole oyntment And a man may say of your Roman Christians or Christian Romanist which you will as one said of a wicked Prelate who was also a Temporall Prince as you be when he gloryed of his greatnesse as being both a Prelate and a Prince or Earle What shalbecome of the Bishop when the Earle is in hell So what shal become of your Romanist as a Christian when your Christian as a Romanist is in hell L. p. ibid I am willing to hope there are many among them which kâ—ep within the Church and yet wish the Superstitions abolished which they know and which pray to God to forgive their errours in what they know not and which hold the foundation firme and live accordingly and would have all things amended that are amisse were it in their power And to such I dare not deny a possibility of Salvation for that which is Christs in them though they hazzard themselves extremely by keeping so closse to that which is Superstition and in the case of Images comes too neare to Idolatry P. Your Hope and Charity may be much but in this can doe but little But 't is possible that some may keep within the Confines of that Church-Dominions and more powerfull Principality and yet not be of that Church as those seven thousand in Israel forementioned Of such if any such there be we may well hope of their salvation although they cannot live in those places where Popery beares sway but with much danger to their bodies and estates and some to their soules too As I perswade my selfe for all your diligent Inquisition and hunting with your Hounds Beagles and Prosecutions or if you will persecutions in your High Commission and other spirituall Coâ—ts there are many poore honest soules in England that truly feare God and abhorre your superstitions and oppressions but in regard of their bodies and estates cannot be but in dayly danger of falling into your Lyons denne if but once detected But for others who are sensible of your Tyrannicall yoake and groane under the burthens of your superstitions and Ceremonies yet have not the heart and courage of the spirit of Christ to with-draw their necks but indure all your bondage so they may injoy the fleshpots of Aegipt however they may wish to be free yet you know the Proverbe Wishers and Woulders And so of those in the Church of Rome some Errours some may see and be sensible of them and wish them removed but in the mean time will they nill they they must undergoe them and that even against their Conscience so as me thinks this should somwhat abate and snibbe your willingnesse to hope of any possibility of salvation for such as against their Conscience and for worldly respects live in known errour Nor can he possibly avoyd it so long as he lives in and of that Church For as Solomon saith Can a man take fire in his bosome and not be burnt Can one goe upon hot coales and his feet not be burnt so who so toucheth a whorish woman shall not be innocent Now he that lives in and of the Romish Church lives in the whores bosome and is a member of the whore And perhaps many a one feeling how hot the bosome is wisheth he were out of it but hath not the Power being as Solomon saith plunged into a deep pit The mouth of a strange Woman is a deep pit he that is abhorred of the Lord shall fall therin And once in 't is hard getting out Nor all a mans wishing will doe it But say you he prayes to God to forgive him his Errours that he knows not What then Is he the nearer salvation when he still lives in the errour that he knows and onely wisheth to be amended And doth not many a man live in a known sinne as whoredome or drunkennesse or the like and being convinced of the foulenesse of it and the many evils it brings upon him wishes he could leave it and prayes God to forgive him and yet lives in it still Is he ever the neare to mercy Nay he is the further off as being habituated and hardened in his sin known sin wherein he lives unpenitently Wheras Solomon saith He that confesseth and forsaketh his sins shall have mercy But he that hideth his sins shall not prosper And you here bring some Papist in confessing the errours which he knows not as praying God to forgive them but never a word of his confessing and praying God to forgive those errours which he knows and wherein he lives So here is a hiding of his known errours But it were too grosse to bring him in confessing and deprecating God for his known errours wherein he still liveth and though he wish them amended in the Church of Rome yet amends them not himselfe nor doe you tell us that he doth so much as wish them amended in himselfe and therfore you prudently forbeare the mention of any such thing as his praying to have his known errours forgiven For that should put a man into a desperate case shuting him out of all hope and possibility of salvation to mock God to his face in praying to have those Errours and sins forgiven him in which against his Conscience he both liveth and resolveth no other though he wisheth but to dye But yet say you such hold the foundation Christ. How As they that held him fast when they crucified him For such as live in known sin and errour they as the Apostle saith * crucifie to themselves the Son of God afresh and put him to an open shame Such holding of Christ is not to hold him as a foundation but to overthrow the foundation For Christ dyed not to hold to deliver us from the punishment of sin but from the guilt and dominion of sin by working in us Faith and Repentance So as to professe Christ and to want these yea to live in known sin and errour onely with a faint wishing of amendment is not to hold the foundation Christ but to make him a false foundation as if he were a Saviour of such as so live in known sin and errour as they resolve no other but to live and dye in it And we have proved before that Romes Religion quite overthrows the foundation Christ so as none living and dying in the Faith of that Church can be saved and the more he knows it and yet lives in it the greater is his damnation though he wish never so much to have the errour amended But you say Christ hath a part in them I answere with the Apostle The Foundation of God stands sure and hath this seale The Lord knoweth them that are his and