through Presbytery and Independency will soone gird themselves to battle in those Notions and we shall never want enough of Presbytery and Independency till they undo us after our own fashion and if they cannot kill us as Cavaliers and Malignants in this new way they may kill us as Presbyters and Independents And surely they will have so much Iesuitisme as never to let us starve for Hereticks and Schismaticks the Iesuits run commonly over to the Lutherans and raile there against Calvinists and so they never want matter for division in Germany it is the great design of Conclaves and Popish Councels to practice upon States in their own religions and customes and to turne us back into Popery by being Protestants amongst us and to raise up new troubles by changing the old and by transfiguring their enmity Satan himselfe can be an Angell of light when he cannot passe as a power of darknesse and where works he thus but in the children of disobedience And Brethren let us not let our enemies in at back-doâ—res of Presbytery and Independency let us not undo our selves when God would save us let us see that these workings are but the old designe in a new Forme The last reason is People are not wholly undeceived in their present Ministers And to that end consider 1. That these Ministers who tell them thus and preach thus are neither as Aaron was nor as the Prophets were nor as the Apostles were nor have such an infallible gift nor spirit of discerning so as their words and Sermons are no more to be beleeved then the words of the Scripture proves and people are to trie all and to trie spirits and so trust and now friends not beleeve Sermons too suddenly because their Sermons are not very Scripture but interpretation to their light and light may be darkned with carnall reason and interest 2. That these Ministers who preach so for Presbytery through bloud and persecution now did but a few yeers since preach as confidently for the Service-book for Bishops or against the Presbytery our Brethren of Scotland 3. That these Ministers that preach nothing but Presbitery Government and Divine Right yet never tryed it in their lives nor lived in the experience of it but have it by report and by Idaea or modell or Landship from other Countreys and some specious Scriptures 4. That these Ministers who would presse the Covenant against Popery and Episcopacy root and branch yet will be content though Bishops be unlawfull to say the Bishops hands which ordained them are not and that Bishops could make them Ministers of Christ though they were Antichrist themselves and that Episcopacy could make a lawfull Ministery 5. That these Ministers who preached against Deanes and Archdeacons and Prelates as unlawfull can be content very well with their maintenance their tythes are not popish nor the profits nor revenues are not against Covenant people look a little into these men that hold there is no popery in any thing that makes them rich or maintaines them is this the doctrine of the crosse and selfe-deniall 6. That these Ministers who preached against Pluralities yet now a mastership of a Colledge and a great Living or two of some hundreds a yeer with Chaplainships as they commonly have and two or three great Lectures in conjunction with a great Living is not Plurality nor must be accounted so Nay for a Presbyter to have two livings is no plurality now but for a Prelate to have them is undoubtedly so By the same tenure the Prelates formerly lived at Court and in Lords houses and held Livings as they in the Assembly now by their attendance there 7. That these Ministers who pretend to so much light and certainty of truth yet after two yeers reasoning and proofe have not been able to prove their way of Government from Scripture so as there are so many excellent Quaeries propounded from the Honourable Parliament which lye unanswered unlesse the Ministers intend to resolve the Parliament some other way by making the tumults more and their answers lesse for their books and Sermons speak no lesse Was ever Reformation but where the Red Dragon is in the Pulpit preached for in so much bloud and I pray friends are all things so true as they tell you our greatest and wisest Counsell can see no such thing in it yet and since you expect your Government from the Parliament I pray go not before them in your judgements but stay and examine as they do 8. That the mystery of the Popish Ministery hath ever been to lead the people and stir up the people either by merit or martyrdome or ministery and therefore the poore soules of England had given away all their Lands once to Monks and Friers and would all fight for the Holy Land and the Kings and Princes their power to do with as they pleased and all was as the Priest said for Religion too all as the Holy Church said and now merit martyrdome and ministery carry all before them yet in some measure though not in so much England hath seen so much as to take much of their lands again and Tythes again from the Ministery and the Parliaments have seen so much as a little to debate Religion with the Synods and this Parliament hath seen more by how much they have reasoned disputed quaeried with their Ministers When did ever England see so much liberty before when durst Parliaments talke with their Ministers till now And friends let not the old Popish things of merit martyrdome and ministery carry us away as they did I remember an excellent saying reported of Generall Lesley to our Nobles and Gâ—ntry when they were ready to fight for Bishops to this purpose Shall we lose our bloud for so many fat Swingers And I pray are not these the Sons of the Swingers according to ordination ordained and called by Bishops Is our bloud too good for Bishops and not for Presbyters as some think 9. That these Ministers who seem to close with those whom they so lately called and preached against as Malignants and Cavaliers yet cannot love them or use them otherwise then in designe to help up with the Government and then leave them und persecute them under the same Notion with us as Hereticks using them now as the Israelites did the Gibeonites as hewers of wood and drawers of water and then what will become of these poore soules who having helped up the Presbyters into the roome of the Bishops to be sure they shall neither have Common-prayer-book nor Surplice nor Bishops nor Sacraments for the Directory shall keep out the Common-Prayer-book and Presbyters shall keepe out Bishops and Elders shall keep out all Communicants of such and such sins and Vniformity will keep out Conformity And if ye hope for better by the bustle and differences and sideings Issues and successe are in Gods hand not in ours Ye may know when ye begin but not when ye end and they will be first in
Some Drops of the Viall powred OUT IN A SEASON WHEN IT IS Neither Night nor Day OR Some Discoveries of Iesus Christ His Glory in severall BOOKS viz. 1. The New Quaere 2. The Opening of the Vindication 3. The Smoake in the Temple 4. The Groanes for liberty 5. The Divine Right of Presbytery discussed 6. An End of One Controversie 7. Reasons for Vnity Peace and Love And Shadowes flying away All which Books are here reprinted in one Booke entirely after the severall Impressions of them and presented to the Reader 1 King 19. 11 12. But the Lord was not in the Winde and after the Winde an Earthquake but the Lord was not in the Earthquake and after the Earthquake a fire but the Lord was not in the fire and after the fire a still small voice and the Lord was in that By John Saltmarsh Preacher of the Gospell LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS 1646. TO HIS EXCELLENCY Sir THOMAS FAIRFAX Generall of all the Forccs raised for the PARLIAMENT Right Honourable THe severall pieces thus rallied were never writ in my own power or appointment but I had commonly some juncture of Providence and something of a Spirit not my own upon me for I observed I could not write when I would my Springes were not in me nor could I end when I would till I had finished this Testimony and for something of God here I am sure there is enough of man of my selfe Thus is Gods appearing while we are in the Body he was in Christs which had no sin but he is not so in ours which are full of sin I have some few things to say and they ars things of duty from me and of truth to you that God hath filled the story of your life with himselfe with his Power Wisdome and Love and all that he may be your fulnesse and that you would glory in the Lord Let me remind you how you have seen him from Leedes to Bradfoorth to Wetherby to York to Hull even from Yorkeshire to Lincolneshire from thence to Naseby and so through the Conquest of Cities Towns Castles through so much almost as a Kingdom comes to And now after all this enter into your rest even the love of God the Son of God and there refresh your selfe in his light in his glory in the bosome of his love there are pleasures for evermore this is a piece of your coursest worke to beare the Sword for him who is the Power of God upon Earth for the punishment of evill doers in the world the more glorious worke is your Spirituall where Principalities and Rulers and Spirituall wickednesse in high places flesh and bloud are all against you and yet you above them all in him through whom you are more than Conquerour even him that loved you Sir Let it be not your busines only to Conquer as a man but as a Saint not as a Souldier but as a Christian not in the spirit of man but of God Let not a sin a lust a temptation stand more before you in the body then an enemy in the field gird on your spirituall Armour your Shield of faith your brestplate of righteousnesse your Sword of the Spirit your Helmet of Salvation and put on your white lining which is the righteousnesse of the Saints and follow him who rides on the white Horse in a vesture dipt in the bloud of his sufferings whose name is the Word of God and tell me if ever there was Glory like unto this Glory I cannot reckon the mighty men of valour in the world any thing but a worldly glory which if it dyed not with them or some ages after them yet can live no longer than the life of the world all these things are perishing but to be a man of the holy Spirit a man borne of God a man that wars not after the flesh a man of the Kingdom of God as well as of England Thus you shall live beyond time and age and men and the world gathered up into the life which is Eternall and was with the Father Sir Your dwelling now is much in the shadow of death and amongst the Graves and therefore so live in Christ your life that you may have one life more then men can kill men can only kill the man not the Christian. Sir I will not praise you but blesse God for you and his Image in you this will make great men love God and not themselves to speake of them as his not as their own Now Sir so warre that you may be still a man of peace in the midst of battell and of compassions in the midst of sufferings never wearing your Laurell without some Olive that all may know when you act as a Magistrate and as your selfe when you act from power or when from love from Justice or when from mercy So love as you may love God and Christ in men more then men and the Spirit in any more then the Forme either of Presbytery or Independency Thus Brethren who can now scarcely love one another because of that shall love you and shall learne to love one another from you Noble Sir Your humble servant IOHN SALTMARSH A New Quaere At this time seasonably to be considered as we tender the advancement of TRVTH PEACE Viz. Whether it be fit according to the Principles of true Religion and State to settle any Church-Government over the Kingdome hastily or not and with the Power commonly desired in the hands of the Ministers By IOHN SALTMARSH Preacher of the Word at Brasteed in Kent 2 Cor. 10. 8. Our authority which the Lord hath given for Instruction and not for destruction LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Signe of the Black Spread-Eagle at the West-End of S. PAULS 1646. A Quaere Whether it be â—it according to the Principles of true Religion and State to settle any Church-Government over the Kingdom hastily or not and with the Power commonly desired in the hands of the Ministers _1 THe Rules laid down in the Word for practicall Obedience are these in part Let every one be fully perswaded in his own mind Rom. 14. 5. ver 23. and whatsoever is not of faith is sin Now the setling of any Government upon a people who are yet generally untaught in the nature and grounds of it is to put upon the people the practice of that wherein it is impossible they can be fully perswaded in their minds and so either on a necessity of sin or misery 2 There is great danger of bringing people under a Popish implicite Obedience by forcing on a practice of that which they scarce know or know but in part And this is against the Nationall Covenant to side with any Principles of Popery And we know it by experience that the people have been ever devoted to any thing the State sets up all the disputes or conscience of the common people usually ending in this Whether it
dictinction in the distribution which they have so long breathed after and rejoyced in the expectation of and their condition upon these Principles are no better now in their so much desired-for-Reformation then it was under the Prelates and Common-Prayer-Book which holds the doore more close against sinners then the Vindication or they ought to do upon these his principles And secondly The full and finall determining a Scripture of this kind or any other to one particular sense is not agreeable to that Spirit of Wisdom and of God which is an infinitely abounding Spirit and like the Sun is full of beames and continuall springings of light nor do the Interpretations of the Word appeare all at once the same Scripture which many ages ago gave out one beame of light gave more in the ages after and more now as the eyes of our understanding are enlightned so as Scriptures are not to be bounded in our sense nor the elevations of spirit taken by the short rule of our spirits which is contrary to these Scriptures 2 Pet. 1. 20 21. 2. Cor. 5. 16. Phil. 3. 12 13 15 16. Ephes 3. 18 19. 1 Cor. 2. 14 15. Vindication Fol. 41. If the Sacrament be only a setling or confirming Ordinance of true Grace when and where it is already begun then it were altogether impertinent and ineffectuall unto civill carnall Christians therefore doubtlesse it is and was intended by Christ for a converting Ordinance to all such as those Inference Whence we may infer That the Sacrament being a converting Ordinance may be given to all unregenerate persons in or out of the Church for if it be a converting Ordinance the consequence lies cleare that no sinners of any sort kind quality condition in or out of the Church ought to be denied it nay to have it administred as well without the Word as with it it being of equall power with the Word for converting as the Vindication faith and that who holds otherwise are mistaken And though there be a distinction premised of converting to the Faith or formall profession and a converting to a spirituall sincere Faith in Iesus Christ yet this distinction makes not any thing against the Sacrament to be given before the Word even for conversion to the first Faith or faith from Paganism which neither Scriptures nor practice of Christ or any Disciple of his from Apostles to the seventy and so down through any age to our own that ever I could read on practised and yet the principles laid down in Fol 38. will infer such a consequence naturally and truly for the Vindication saith in Fol. 38. That the Word and all Ordinances are alike for conversion and if so the Sacraments may be used as well to convert from Paganism and administred singly by themselves as the Word by it selfe may be taught Secondly The Vindication saith That it is doubtlesse to be given to all for else it had been an impertinent and ineffectuall thing to administer to close Hypocrises that are carnall Christians Whence we may infer That because the Counsels of the Lord in all his Administrations do not clearly appeare but through the Vindications of his own suppositions and premises therefore he concludes fully That it were impertinent and ineffectuall when as there appeares no such end at all in the institution of it but rather two other ends One which himselfe laies down as occasionall or evidentiall for the damnation and hardening some though I scarce allow him that that Ordinances of mercy and grace are properly active to condemnation The other which he never thinks on in his Book is this That God having left no infallible Rule for discerning hath ordered it by a pure Gospell-rule which if wicked men will come up to they hazzard greater condemnation Further we may infer That things may be called impertinent and ineffectuall which are instituted of the Lord when the reasons of the Lords Institution appeares not to us and that we may put our own suppositions and ends upon any administration in the Word when his ends are not cleare to us nay and conclude against any other end then that of our own conjecture or supposed probable reason which I am confident is too too grosse to be in the learned Author Intentionally though not consequentially in his Vindication But the ends which I clearly gather from the Analogie of things in Gods dispensation are these Why the Sacrament though according to the institution delivered to Hypocrites yet is no converting Ordinance God having left no infallible Rule of discerning his but only a Rule for outward evidences the Ordinances must either be administred to all walking according to the Rule of outward evidences or to none and according to that Rule Hypocrites may come in and do yet that is no sin to the Administrator nor Communicants so long as Administrations be ordered according to that Rule and Gods End of his revealed Will shewed Secondly The worke of sifting and reaping of dividing betwixt the Tares and the Wheat the Sheep and the Goats is the work of the great day of the Son of man and therefore though Ordinances be administred here to Hypocrites yet at the time of the finall discerning the communicating of Hypocrites shall be visited in judgement and greater condemnation upon them So as there is no need of framing it into any Notion of a converting Ordinance lest otherwise it prove impertinent or ineffectuall for if the close Hypocrites be finally impenitent ones God reckons for a greater sin if not yet it is no more impertinent then the Word is to all the children of God who yet never partake truly of it till converted Thirdly That the distinction of his into the first conversion from Papanism to Faith and secondly from a formall Faith to a true sincere Faith in Jesus Christ which is the corner Stone in his building is a distinction and certain degrees which we have not in any such Notion in the Word nor if it were doth it appeare that the Scriptures place administration upon the bottom of any such distinction though he doth it But suppose I grant it yet a formall profession then as he contends for and many other was not such as is now since Kingdoms were Christiaâ—ized but a profession then was according to the Rule of evidence till the contrary appeared as in all the first gathered Churches as in Simon Magus Ananias c. And formall profession then was as much as a kind of powerfull profession now for then it was persecution to take up an Ordinance or Name of Christ and now it is faction on the Law of the Land as well as the Law of the God to professe Christ neither were the whole Counsels of the Spirit of Christ brought forth then to make up the rule of evidences as afterwards but they were brought forth by degrees till the whole Scriptures of the New Testament were finished And we are now to take the whole Counsels of God concerning
Administrations as laid down in the whole New Testament and not by parcels though so much as they did professe in the first time of gathering were rule enough then to them when no more was revealed yet not to us now who have a full Gospell for our learning And this mistake or want of just consideration of times and Scriptures is the ground of all the mistakes Vindication Fol. 41. Why should not the Sacrament doe the like since Gods Spirit equally breathes and works in all his Ordinances and may and doth regenerate and beget grace in mens souls Inference Whence we may infer That it is lawfull according to this Principle to beleeve That if one Ordinance convert any other may whether God hath instituted so or no. We know the Lord hath appointed and ordered every Ordinance to its nature kind and use and Gods institution is to be the rule of our beleeving and reasoning and practising not because such a thing works so therefore any thing works so as that thing works The Author himselfe reasons against this in another place and that there is no right inference but in things of the like kind and under the like precept as thus The Word is able to convert therefore all Preaching and Prophesying is able to convert but not therefore the Sacraments can convert Vindication Fol. 41. The Sacraments are by all Divines whatsoever and the very Directory pag. 52. ever enumerated among the means of Grace and Salvation Why then should they not be the means of converting Inference Whence we may inferre That it is warrantable to expound Divines and the Directory contrary to their intent and meaning and to inferre conclusions from them to prove things which are not only very disputable but unwarrantable as far as any Scripture makes appeare either in any plaine precept or president and especially to turne the Directory being a Publike forme made by the Assembly so much against their sense and meaning as appeares by divers of their judgements of late is an attempt much like that of expounding a Law or Ordinance of Parliament in a private sense not in their own and this quotation of a Directory in this kinde is enough to make it all questionable and to draw on a necessity of a publike interpretation upon it Vindication Fol 41 42. That receiving Sacraments is usually accompanied with effectuall means as serious examinations solemne searching out of all open and secret sinnes with confession contrition humiliation prayers of pardon secret purposes and vowes sundry pious and soul-ravishing meditations of Gods mercy exhortations admonitions by the Ministers And why is not the Sacrament a more fit and apt Ordinance to regenerate convert ungodly and scandalous sinners then the bare Word preached Inference Whence we may infer That there are certaine preparations and qualifications in men meerly unregenerate which are here lifted up into something more then naturall or carnall workings or filthinesse of the flesh as prayers for pardon of sin pious and soul-ravishing meditations with humiliation contrition confession c. Now I would faine know what there is in man before the glorious light of Jesus Christ hath opened his eyes and brought him out of prison out of darknesse into light What kind of prayers can such make What pious meditations can such have of Gods mercy in Christ What contrition is there in such What humiliation Without faith it is impossible to please God and the carnall minde is enmity against God nor is it subject to the Law of God nor indeed can be and they that are in the flesh cannot please God What is all this then of prayers When as the prayers of the wicked are abominable What are all those flourishes and noise of vowes and purposes and contrition and meditations of an unregenerate man when they all are but glorious sins Doe men gather Grapes of Thornes or Figges of Thistles Why should nature be made proud with these expressions And any ground laid for boasting And whereas it is said that the Sacrament is a more apt means to convert then the bare Word preached we may infer some derogating and diminution or lessening implyed here of the Ordinance of the Word or Ministery because it is said Then the bare Word as if so be that the Word were a bare Word when it comes in the power of salvation to regenerate when the Spirit quickens it and makes it a Word of truth of grace the power of God unto salvation and we see the Word or Ministery it selfe is called The Preaching of faith The Ministery of Reconciliation The Sacrament is not called so any where though no lesse glorious neither And Christ and his Apostles and Disciples went every where preaching the Word but not administring the Sacrament but only there where the ministery of the Word had first brought them under the power of the Gospell-Order and Rule for Ordinances of a more spirituall institution Vindication Fol. 4â— That because we behold Christs death and passion more visibly represented to our eyes and hearts in the Sacrament and remission of sinnes more sensibly applied to us then in any other Ordinances therefore it is certainly the most powerfull Ordinance of all others to regenerate and covert with many Scriptures to prove conversion by representation Inference We may infer That because the Lord hath instituted his signe of Bread and Wine in the Supper to his owne end therefore it will serve to any end That we can prove of our owne imagining upon certaine rationall conclusions from Scripture or reason without particular Scriptures authorizing or appointing it to such an end and therefore all these grounds consequences and notions which are formed upon a likelihood and probability are nothing to prove any direct use of the Sacrament to such an end without as I have said a speciall Word Precept or Practise or just Consequence from Scriptures directed to such a proof for else there is scarse any thing but we may reason into a notion of likelihood but faith must have better grounds and not of private interpretation and the Scriptures that are alleadged must not be to prove that things of lively representation may most affect the soul and have done so but that these Scriptures are plainly or powerfully directed by the Spirit of God to prove the very Institution of the Supper to that end which none of those Scriptures prove that are alleadged in Fol. 42. Vindication Fol. 43. That God doth as effectually teach convert and work grace by the eye as eare and therefore were the Sacraments Sacrifices Types Miracles c. Why should not then the visible expressions of Christ in the Sacrament now have the like effectuall converting power Inference We may infer as we have done before That all these are but Why should nots no words of Institution or Authority in the Scripture for it But further the Legall Sacraments c. were carnall and more to the sense and more of representation but these are more
in the spirit under the Gospell we worship now in spirit and in truth not by representations as under the Law And therefore it is that the Gospell-Ordinances are so few so plaine and poore to the eye that the soule may not be taken up with the signe but with things spirituall And we may observe that as little as can be of outward elements are made use on as in Baptisme meere water and in the Supper Wine and Bread and the first Ordinance is called the Baptisme of the Spirit not of water and the Bread and Wine The Communion of the Body and of the Bloud of Christ not Bread and Wine And faith the Apostle If we have known Christ after the flesh henceforth know we have no more And further What is it that is said of grace comming in by the eye This is the way the Papists let in Christ having made the eye rather the Organ for conversion then the eare Now Faith commeth by hearing and therefore all their Idolatrous Pictures their Imagery and theabicall representations are all for the eye and bringing in Christ by Obtick or sense and making conversion to be by perspective and working only an historicall faith And further What is it that is said of working grace by the eye As if the carnall part could advantage conversion by any power there but such a power as is meerly carnall and naturall What can all these signes of the Lord Iesus doe upon a blinde soul as all unregenerate men are What are the glorious colours to him that hath no eyes to see The signes of bread and wine are given for working symbolically or by signe upon a soule or understanding spiritually enlightened before and having a discerning and therefore it is that the Apostle saith He that eats and drinks unworthily eats and drinks damnation to himself not discerning the Lords Body which if the Supper had been a converting Ordinance the Apostle would not have charged the unworthy from receiving but rather have encouraged them in their receiving that of unworthy they might have been made worthy But you see he cals for a right discerning of the Lords Body first which cannot be a calling of the unregenerate or unconverted to a partaking because they have no right discerning of the Body of Christ but by the sense first converted Vindication Fol. 44. 1. That the most humbling melting soul-changing sin-purging mollifying meditations of all others are from Christs death and passion c. and therefore c. 2. Afflictions and corporall punishments are converting Ordinances therefore c. 3. That unworthy participating is a meanes of spirituall hardening and so by the rule of contraries a worthy receiving an instrument of conversion 4. All the ends of it are as appeares so spirituall see his Scriptures that how is it possible it should not be Gods intention and Christs Ordination to be a converting Ordination 5. Conversion is a turning of the whole man unto love obedience of God in Christ from the love of the world c. and what engine more powerfull for the forecited respects or spirituall ends 6. Experience in every Christians conscience whose preparations and approaches to this Sacrament were the first effectuall means of their conversion yea they had not been converted if debarred from it Inference We may inferre upon the first That there are soul-melting meditations in a soul unconverted or unmelted and that there are soul-changing meditations in a soul unchanged which the Scriptures never speak on such waies of conversion are no waies in the Word that we read on but hidden paths for the spirit of mans devising Secondly that because afflictions are therefore Sacraments are that is because one thing is therefore another thing is This is but the Old Argument But God may sanctifie any thing at his own pleasure to make way for Conversion and yet that no instituted Ordinance for conversion neither Because some have been converted when afflicted when sick when poor therefore will you first go afflict them and make them sick and poore taking all they have from them that you may convert them and so make them standing Ordinances Thirdly Is a rule of contraries a rule in the Scriptures or in Logick But it is said Worthy receiving is an instrument of Conversion that is Conversion is a meanes of Conversion who can receive worthily till in Christ till converted 4. But all the ends of it are spirituall and how is it possible but then it should convert This How is it possible is like that of Why should it not both of one strength to prove it for though the ends be never so spirituall yet if there be no warrant for any such institution as conversion all the reasons extrinsecall or strange consequences as all such are cannot institute an Ordinance none but God and Christ and therefore the Popish Arguments built upon such forreigne and externall though rationall consequences are not immediate nor intrinsecall enough to warrant any thing of their will-worship 5. But â—â— is a powerfull engine Yea but only for what it is instituted and oâ—dained nor is it lesse excellent because it converts not because every thing is beautifull in its order and place and law of creation 6 But the experiences of Chrictians witnesse who had never been converted if not at the Sacrament But what Christians are these What kind of experiences are these I question the truth of all such conversion who have only such experience as this because that such experience crosses the Word and way of the Spirit and those are no right experiences which are not Scripture-experiences But some had not been converted if debarred from it This is a strange assertion against that of the Word The spirit bloweth where and when it listeâ—â— and some are called at one houre of the day some at another and how is it cleare that the Sacrament converted such or not some other act of the Word at that time or about it Shew me that Christian among so many that can evidence his act of conversion meerely barely singly immediately from the act of communicating and then there is something proved to justifie an experience of Conversion at such a time but still not to justifie the Sacrament an Ordinance-Conversion and so to be used Vindication Fol. 46. Is any Master or Parent so unnaturall and sottish to deny his children or servant wholesome meat to feed their bodies And shall any Minister be so irrationall or inconsiderate in denying the spirituall food Inference Whence we may inferre That the Vindication takes all unconverted persons by this comparison to be alive and spiritually quickned or else it were as he sayes unnaturall sottish irrationall to give them food And if they be unconverted as he pleads for then who is so unnaturall sottish irrational or inconsiderate as to give them any Men onely hold forth food to the living and not to the dead Vindication Fol. 46. Physitians had an errour to deny drink
c. And those Families the children of the Bond-woman and of the free never bearing but persecuting each other So as all of pure spirituall constitution cannot but experimentally finde a spirituall nature in themselves working them into a more glorious fellowship then that of the world The sum of the Argument If then there be two contrary natures of Spirit and Flesh if these cannot nor never could in experience of all Ageâ— and according to the truth in Scriptures and example of all there beare each other into the same spirituall society or fellowship if nature it selfe in the creatures run out into antipathies and sympathies that is into particular gatherings and separations mutuall opposings and resistings of each other when together Then spirituall and unmixt Communion and Fellowship from the world and men of the world is warrantable But all this is undeniably true to the experience of all Therefore spirituall unmixt Communion and Fellowship from the world and men of the world is warrantable II. Argument from the Power of Spirituall Ordinances and Dispensations THe Gospel-Ordinances brought into the World a power and spiritual Law in them though in degrees and measures and severall givings out as in Johns time and his Disciples in Christs owne time and his Disciples and in the Spirits time and according to these times of manifestation believers were wrought upon in Johns time they came out to the Baptism of Water in Christs and his Disciples to the preaching of the Word in the Spirits time to the Bâ—pâ—â—sme of the Spirit to a more mighty and glorious working and all these times of Gospel-manifestation had a prevailing losse and more upon the believers of these severall times in drawing them out from the World in part though weakly in Johns time it is said Then came out unto him all Judea yet though they were Baptised of him they gathered not off into such particular societies as after The Kingdome of God then was but at hand in Christs time though his preaching was powerfull yet he let out the glory of his spirit but sometimes with the Word reserving his more glorious manifestations for other times and even here though Christs preaching gathered in his Apostles and Disciples into some particular and neerer way to himselfe yet not many more nay he rather left many partly in that mixed condition of society he found them and so the Disciples Commission which was given was to preach but little yet of Church gathering but by way of Prophecy as in Matt. 16. and 18. The Kingdome of God was but yet at hand not come In the Spirits time then the Kingdome of God was come and then a mighty operation and measure of the Spirit was powred out and then the believers through the powerfull working were brought more off from the World and began to gather in closer to Christ and one another And now all power was given to Christ which was not before his Resurrection and now he sets up a Kingdome All power is given into my hands and now the Kingdom begins to be set up in the hearts and practice of believers and the Spirit to mold and cast the believers into Brotherhoods and societies and the forme of a Kingdome and now the Laws and spirituall policy are given out for ordering this Kingdome And we see how the people of God in Rome Corinth Ephesus Galatia drew off from the world in the things of the Lord. We see then how the Word did begin to worke Believers into a fellowship from the world and the more the spirit was given the more and more off from the world in all these severall times And it is a rationall truth and a clear conclusion even to meer reason that the more Christ and his Spirit is in any the more neer and close they will gather up to heaven and walkings with God and the more Christward any one is the more off still from the multitude of the world And thus the Ordinances of Jesus Christ in which the Spirit breathes so powerfully worke men off from the mixed world into fellowship with the Lord and that spirituall fellowship makes them rejoyce more in one another then in any other that are more carnall The more men live to Christ the more they dye to the world and are formed into the fellowship of his death and Resurrection The sum of the Argument If then the Ordinances and Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ had ever a power in some degree of prevailing upon the soules of Believers according to the manifestation of the Spirit and if this Spirit flowing from God and Christ carry up the soule to God and Christ according to the measure given to those Beleevers and if the more they are carried towards Christ the more they must come off from the world Then Congregationall or Church-order wherein Beleevers are gathered into fellowship with God in Christ and one another from the world in the things of the Gospell and unmixt communion is warrantable But all this is undeniably true from the Word Therefore Church-fellowship and unmixt Communion is warrantable Argument III. IF mixed communion and society came in upon the Apostacy and falling away and Parochiall Congregations were formed up afterwards from such mixt Communion If as Antichrist prevailed so darknesse and corruption prevailed upon Beleevers If Churches were called Golden Candlesticks before and a Fellowship of Saints and the Body of Christ and Kingdom of God till they grew mixed If the mixt Congregations by Parishes came in first by Dyonisius Bishop of Rome in the yeare 267. and in England by Honorius Bishop of Canterbury and people were only made Congregations by conveniency of situation and the Law of Civill Policy If Parishes were first the seats of Popery and after the seats of Prelacy and now fall under the Presbytery in the same kind and Notion of a mixed multitude Then mixt and Parochiall Congregations are not that way and order of Christ for Ordinances which was the Primitive way revealed and practised in the Gospell But all this is undeniably true from the best Historians Therefore not mixt Communion and fellowship but pure and unmixt is the only Ordinance of Christ Now I shall leave you for the present and commend particulars unto you and the Kingdom the one A Rule of Evidences for Spirituall Communion drawn from the Scriptures the other A remarkeable passage in the Book of Vindication The Rule of Evidences for Spirituall-Communion MAtth. 15. 26. Chap. 18. 19 20. Joh. 10. 16. Acts 2. 44 46. Chap. 19. 9. Rom. 1. 7. Chap. 16. 17 18. 1 Cor. 1. 1 10. Chap. 5. 4 5 11 13. and 12. 12 13 14 20 25 27 2 Cor. 5. 6 7. Chap. 6. 14 15 16 17. Gal. 5. 9 10 12 13. Chap. 6. 16. Ephes 4. 3 4 25 Chap. 5. 1 2 11 12 21 30. Pâ—il 3. 15 16 17. 1 Thes 3. 6. 2 Thes 3. 14. 1 Tim. 6. 3 4 5. 2 Tim. 3. 5. Tit. 3.
of Church-power as is pretended That none ought to communicate in the Ordinances of Christ till first baptized Exceptions against the grounds of the new Baptism 1. THat those places commonly taken for the Commission for Christs Baptisin as Mat. 28. 18. Mar. 16. and where they that now baptize ground their Commission and practice hath no such thing in it For the Baptism there is a Baptism in the Name of the three Persons of Father Son and Holy Ghost and not the Baptism of Jesus Christ alone which the Apostles only baptized in by water as in Act. 2. 28. Act. 10. 48. Act. 19. 5. Act. 8. 16. Rom. 6. 3. where it is still said Baptize in the Name of the Lord Jesus or of Jesus Christ and a Name of any more Persons is not the least mentioned So as to baptize as they commonly baptize in the Name of Father Son and Holy Ghost for Jesus Christs baptism is contrary to the full practice of all that baptized by water as they do as in Act. 2. 38. Act. 10. 48. Act. 19. 5. Act. 8. 16. c. and a confounding Scriptures together viz. severall institutions and practices 2. That baptizing in Matth. 28. 18. cannot properly nor in the word and letter be understood of baptizing by water because there is no more mentioned in the letter or Scripture then meerly the word baptizing and to expound it as they do by a baptizing by water is to put in a consequence and interpretation of their own for Scripture which way of consequences they condemn in all others Presbyterials c. as Will-worship and traditions of men and justly too Now there being no water nor any circumstance in the Text to make out any sense of water as in other places it is an usurpation vpon the Spirit and the Word to put such a sense so infallibly and peremptorily upon the Word which Jesus Christ himself uses in other significations then that of water as in Matth. 20. 22 23. Matth. 3. 11. 1. Cor. 12. 13. 1 Cor. 10. 2. all these places are of Baptism and baptizing yet not one of them of baptizing by water but of Metaphorical and figurative Baptism by his sufferings by the Holy Ghost by the Spirit by the cloud and Sea 3. That Matth. 28. 18. Mar. 16 c. are rather and far more probably to be expounded of the Spirits Baptisme or the Baptism of the Holy Ghost because it seems to be prophesied on by Joel 2. 28. Isai 44. 3. where the Holy Ghosts Baptism is promised to come by Christ and in Matth. 3. 11. Act. 1. 5. Joh. 1. 33. prophesied on to come by John and Christ himself to his Disciples and was fulfilled in Christs Institution and power which he gave in Matth. 28. 18. by baptizing with the Holy Ghost which the Apostles did accordingly practice and by their Ministery was given as in Act. 8. 17 and Mark. 16. 16 17. compared with Matth. 28. 18. doth shew that the Baptism in Matth. 28. 18. is a Baptism of gifts as Mark. 16. 15 16 17. 4. That the Baptism of Jesus Christ by water was only in the Name of Jesus Christ as appears in all the places where such a Baptism was practised as in Act. 2. 38. Act. 10. 48. Act. 19 5. Act. 8. 16. Rom. 6. 3. all which is a Baptism only in the Name of Jesus Christ of the Person of the Son not of the Father Son and Holy Ghost as they now practise and which was never practised as appeares in all the Apostles and Disciples practise 5. That the forme by which they baptize viz. I baptize thee in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost is a forme of mans devising a tradition of man a meer consequence drawn from supposition and probability and not a forme left by Christ to say over them at the dipping them in the water If Christ had said When you baptize them say this over them I baptize in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost and unlesse Jesus Christ had left this forme thus made up to their hands they practise a thing made up by themselves and drawn or forced out of Jesus Christs words in Matth. 28. 18. 6. That to preach in the Name of Jesus Christ or to do things in the Name of Jesus Christ is not alwaies in that grosse manner as it is taken viz. naming Jesus Christ or the Father Son and Holy Ghost over them But in the power vertue efficacy Ministery of Jesus Christ or the Persons of the God-head of Father Son and Holy Ghost as in these Scriptures Matth. 28. 20. Mark 13. 6. Joh. 14. 3. Act. 19. 15 16. Joh. 17. 6 11. Act. 9. 14. Revel 11. 18 So here they are at some more losse 7. That though I deny not but water is a signe and one of the witnesses that beare record and in the Word though not yet cleare yet neither can Christs Institution of water and his own Baptism in his own Person be made appeare out of all the New Testamont nor can the Apostles practise by water yet be fetched from such a particular Institution unlesse from Iohn's And if so I am sure they are then at as great a Controversie one with another concerning John's Baptism and Jesus Christ's making them to be two severall Baptisms 8. That every common Disciple cannot so baptize as the first Disciples did because not gifted or qualified as they were And there is as much necessity to make out the Truth in the same power and way of evidence to an Antichristian estate as to a Jewish and Heathenish and with a Word written as well as preached speaking and writing lying both equally open to question and exceptions without a power glorious working in the behalfe and to the reputation of it Nor is there any one Disciple in all the New Testament preaching and baptizing by way of authority but he was able to make out the truth of his calling and dispensation either by miracle or gifts There are but three Exceptions and they have no weight in them 1. Ananias was a Disciple I answer Yea but he restored sight to Saul and had vision 2. Philip did no miracle to the Eunuch I answer We can neither conclude he did nor he did not from the Word for it is silent but he did miracles in Samaria 3. They that were scattered went every where preaching I answer Who they were or how they preached or what power they manifested is not laid down in the Word neither for nor against The Word is silent 9. That there is not such an Officer as Administrator in the whole Word but Apostles Evangelists Prophets Pastors Teachers Elders Rulers Deacons c. and therefore Administrator is an unholsome Word 10. None ought to give Baptism now because there is none can give the gift of the Holy Ghost with it to make up that glorious supplement of
experementally known 15. These Scriptures we have as they are do make a Discovery of such a way of Religion as reason never yet in any age attained to The men of purest reason as your old Philosophers never attained further then the knowledge of something infinite which they did not know and a Religion of humane or morall righteousnesse and purity and some sacrifices of atonement c. And there is not any Religion in the world Jewish or Turkish but they are made up of carnall principles and are founded upon reason and nature but this Gospell Religion hath opened a new way of righteousnesse in one that is both God and Man in a most rationall though infinite way of salvation and a way of Worship crosse to all methods and wates of reason and the world opening new waies by a new Spirit purifying naturall reason into more divine and glorious notions then ever it yet attained bringing in a way of beleeving and placing a Religion upon a spirituall perswasion called Faith which is more proportionable to an infinite God and an infinite way and depth of salvation then reason ever invented viz. for the soule to beleeve upon one even Jesus Christ in whom God hath laid up all love and fulnesse and so for man to become one with him who is God and Man and there cannot be a more rationall way for man to become one with God then by one who is both God and Man 16. That though there be not such glorious powrings out of Spirit and such gifts as Beleevers both may and shall have yet all Beleevers ought to practice so far of the outward Ordinance as is clearly revealed they may 17. That the Scriptures or Gospell of the New Testament being as many hundred years old as from the Apostles even in that Originall we have them no very materiall differences in Copies as it seems and though they have passed through the great Apostacy yet they have not had the power to corrupt them materially in their Originall to advantage their heresies and corruptions which very constant preservation of Truth in the midst of the very Enemies of Truth is both a constant and standing miracle of it selfe and so we need not stay for a Ministery with miracle being we have a Word with miracle which in its matter subject power speaking of God of his Son God and Man of his Spirit the Actor in man from both by waies of outward Ordinances of the depths windings and workings of reason c. is of as much efficacy to perswade as any thing else we can have and the way of the pure Spirit is a more glorious way of operation then any other of a visible sensuall nature And God may be more glorified by quickning and spiritualizing a word and using the spiritually glorious Ministery of that then of man and they are far too low who look for their originall teaching from man and not from the Word and Spirit CONCLUSION I Have drawne out this map of each opinion that your eye may travell over that in an houre which otherwise you might be a yeare in going over Thus each are discovered in a narrow yet full Discovery and I thinke all that are divinely rationall will see no such cause to thinke that each hath attained so far that either they should presume in their degree or look down from the pinacle of an infallibilitie upon each other I have set the strength and weaknes of each opinion before it self that on the one side as it may glory so on the other side it may fear and be humble All I wish now is that we be all so far one at least in infirmity and this Common weaknesse as may be a ground of Common embodying and associating against the Common Enemy or Grand Antichrist as in States when they are at lowest have least factions and when weakest are most peaceable with one another The Gospell or New Testament of JESUS CHRIST proved undeniably to be the very Word of God without Miracles to assure us of the particular duties in it Because there are some men now of more reason then sound belief I cannot but in a spirituall rationally way beare witnesse to our salvation in the written Word 1. IF there were not a Word or Will of God revealed in Lawes and Ordinances written God were worse provided then the Lawgivers of Nations and Kingdomes and the World were left to their owne wils which is esteemed ridiculous in the eyes of all the Nations of the world in their very politick condition 2. The Laws and Ordinances contained in the Word or New Testament beare only the Image of a God in their holinesse purity righteousnesse glory infinitenesse eternity immortality which are all with many more things of like excellency there which are as the beams of light to the Sun or so many things of God revealing God 3. The Word is so tempered into a middle nature betwixt God and man as no Word can be more revealing the most glorious spirituall infinite things from a God in a meane literall figurative comparative significative way to man 4. To have a standing Word as the Gospell is is more for the glory and authority of a God then any ministry of man though with miracles and signs because such a Word where none can joyn themselves as Authors or Parties as in other wayes of dispensation by men men may joyne themselves doth undoubtedly hold forth most of God and of divine Authority and thus to maintaine or preserve a Law or Word in the world is not so much with God as for King and Princes to maintaine Statutes and Lawes in their Kingdomes 5. A Word as the New Testament is may be as well a way and dispensation to an infinite God to make out himself by as any other either of dreame or vision or Revelation or Oracle all being but wayes of a naturall straine and condition no more then the Word 6. The very manner of dispensation or writing is such as hath the authority power wisedome counsels of a God the whole businesse of it being a work discovered to be begun by God and amongst men to let forth the glory of God the mercy love and wisdome of God and the way by the Son of God and Spirit of God and all to be glorified with God and thus treating only of things divine and a work divine in a way divine 7. We must either give up our selves to this Word wholly or not at all and then let the world and experience judge what kind of Religion reason at large unbounded or unenlightened will bring forth by the former paterns of Heathenish and Gentilish Religion 8. Why should it not be thought the most clean and direct way for God to manifest himself to man by Word Gospell and Epistle and so by an infinite and invisible power and hand commend and conveigh it from age to age from generation to generation as well as for men to make out
their art reason knowledge experience into books and words written to their owne and other generations 9. This Gospell of Iesus Christ places Religion upon a more glorious transcendent way to sute with an infinite God then ever any device of man or reason could invent viz. upon faith upon a beleeving or spirituall perswasion wrought by the same God by which men are carried out into depths of infinitenesse and glory no way measurable nor discernable but by this way of beleeving and there could never have been an engine contrived which could have gone from man into God but this of faith by God himself nor more for the advantage of the glory of a God taking all from the creature employing it wholly upon a God 10. There is more reason in this Gospell or New Testament in the way of Religion which it holds forth by Iesus Christ then ever could be thought on by the reason of man as for instance Each mans internall conscience hath a light or law in it which condemnes or accuseth for murther c. Now if there be accusations against whom is the offence committed but against somthing infinite and what way is there more divinely rationall to apply to the justice of such an infinite being on God offended but by one who is both man and God even Iesus Christ So as the mystery of salvation is such as even reason it self cannot contradict or gainsay though it cannot comprehend to leave the world inexcusable in their unbeliefe because it commands them to beleeve in one whom in reason they cannot deny to be a way proportionable betwixt God and themselve for salvation 11. It carries things in such a rare way of mercy of justice of love of piety and as it is a salvation from God to man so it is a salvation managed by one who is God and Man and every thing belonging to it is accordingly mixed or tempered of Word and Spirit of power divine and outward dispensation or ordinance and all this for man who is of a mixed nature of flesh and spirit Thus things are carried in a way of proportion and sutablenesse so full so sutable and compleat and serviceable as the invention of men could never devise 12. It discovers reason to it self in all its workings and wayes in its purity and corruption in its vertues and vices conscience bearing witnesse to the Laws and Commandements of it it purifies and spiritualizeth reason and brings it into such a way of communion with God as the souls that reade it and are exercised in it seem to be new-borne to receive in another nature an immortall and incorruptible seed 13. It manages all the designe of salvation contrary to nature and the world upon contrary principles dispensations and hands by a Person poore humble and crucified for the good by Ministers and Dispensers meane and contemptible Fisher-men Tradesmen c. yet inspired by graces contrary as selfe-deniall humility love to enemies by conditions contrary as weaknesse affliction poverty suffering dying carrying a treasure a comfort a riches a life a glory under all these 14. It is accompanied by continued or standing miracles though miracles of a more spirituall nature as discovery of the counsels and hearts of men as conversion from sin mortification of sin changing natures from evill to good planting in new dispositions inclinations affections into the soul Now if such charges and conversions were in materiall or sensible things as from water to bloud from water to wine how would it astonish Which in spirituals in more wonderfull though only lesse discernable and not to be so sensibly perceived preserved by its very enemies the Roman cruelty of Emperours and Antichristian Traditions 15. It refers the discovery of all Truth in it self to the Spirit of God which no word but the Word of God would do and will not take in men into glory with it self which miracles do which are done by the hand and ministry of man and the Spirit in this way must needs be a more glorious Interpreter of the Will of God then the meer ministery by man and miracles can be by how much it is of a more spirituall nature and it is more excellent to seek things in the Spirit then in any outward dispensation which as it comes more immediately from God so it comes in more immediately upon men and to take in Truth by sense and sight or miracle is rather to know Christ after the flesh 16. Yet after all the Word it self is the best way to bring in evidence and discovery in its 〈◊〉 half to the souls of those that will come under the power â—peâ—atâ—on and experiments of it under the enlightening convictions impressions of it in the reading hearing and meditating of it These things are written that ye may beleeve And they that are thus exercised are above all miracle and are perswaded enough by it self without the help of an outward work 17. To these I adde the testimonies of the most ancient in witnesse of it Dionysius Areopagita thought to live in the times of the Apostles and not daring to take his Divinity any where but from these Scriptures Irenaeus who was in the yeare 180 affirming the fulnesse of these Gospell-Scriptures and accounted them the Pillar of Truth So Tertullian who lived 1400 years since doth accordingly witnesse to their perfection Origen Athanasius Chrysostome Constantine the Great in the first Nicene-Councell with thousands others all along to our own age 18. The Iewes whose very Testament and condition answers to every Prophesie and Gospel-Scripture 19. The many of those most eminently ancient learned and godly who have shed their bloud in testimony of it 20. The power of God going along with it 21. The Confessions of the most learned in that confesse that the Originall Copies are not corrupted but continued pure One Argument from the Nationall Covenant for Liberty of Conscience yet with all subordinate and just obedience to the State ART I. THe first Branch of the Covenant is That we shall sincerely really and constantly c. endeavour c. the Reformation of Religion in the Kingdoms of England c. in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government according to the Word of God c. ART II. The second Branch of the Covenant That we shall in like manner without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of Popery c. Superstition Heresie Schism c. and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound Doctrine c. Now from these I argue 1. Each one is personally and individually bound by the Covenant and in his owne proper conscience is obliged to endeavour a Reformation according to the Word of God and so far to the example of the best Reformed Churches as they are agreeable to that Word I hope no further Now who shall be the Iudge and Interpreter of this Word of God to each mans conscience in the things of God but he who is Lord of the conscience
in things immediately divine and spirituall The consciences of men are under a spirituall and immediate Interpreter of the Word even the Spirit of the Lord in all things of spirituall cognizance as every Scripture-truth or Truth in the Word is and this is not only strengthened and cleer from the Word but from a testimony which some when they read may know better then many others By the Clause According to the Word of God we understand so far as we doe or shall in our consciences conceive the same to be according to the Word of God Now each man standing thus ingaged in his owne particular and in his own proper conscience by a Covenant recommended and imposed each is bound to bring forth the evidence of their consciences in particular concerning this to which they are covenanted So as I or you being covenanted against Popery Heresie and according to the Word of God you and I stand bound by our own private consciences to reveale to the State who hath recommended such a Covenant unto us what our consciences interpret according to this Word against Popery or Heresie unlesse there could be one universall or publike infallible Interpreter of the Word of God and Truth who might determine concerning Heresie and the Word of God and whose determinations is as in the formerly inspired Apostolical teachers we may rest So being thus ingaged by Covenant we are at the same time by one and the same Act bound to liberty of conscience in these particulars of the things of God And if there should be any persecution for the pious modest and peaceable liberty so taken and practised whether would it not clearly and undeniably follow that our consciences are not under the Lord Iesus and his Spirit immediatly in the things of God but under the interpretations of men And surely that one Clause according to the Word of God is most providentially inserted for if we be so closely covenanted to the Word of God how tender ought we to be lest in this dark season of our discerning we oppose somthing of the Word and so in ignorance persecute what we covenant to maintaine I wish our Assembly would presse this equally with the Covenant in their Sermons Object But must every one be the Interpreter of the Covenant Answ Nay not every one in every thing The Magistracy in all things of a civill cognizance and in all spirituall things which go out from their meer spirituall condition into a morall offence as injustice or evill transgression into tumult or disturbance of publike or private peace actually and expressely not interpretatively for so the Nations interpreted the Iewes as troublers of the State and the Iewes Christ and his Disciples as movers of sedition The Papists and Prelats interpreted the Nonconformists or reproâ—ched Puritans as factious and tumultuous So as in all things of Morall Civill or Secular cognizance which the Magistrate hath clear rule for to walke by He ought to interpret and proceed by partly because he is the Legislator and so is the best Interpreter and can best resolve us in things of Law and publike liberty and in morals his duty lies out more cleerly but in meerly divine and spirituall interpretations of Truth and Gospell-mystery the Lord Jesus and the Spirit of Jesus Christ are both the Legislators or Law givers and Interpreters to the conscience Obj. But shall there be no power to compell consciences into Uniformity Answ I shall give light to this by propounding a Case Suppose the severall godly parties or beleevers were equally principled for persecution or non-toleration and were equally numbred and were equally strengthened by parties of Magistracie on their side what would come forth according to such principles I sigh to consider There would be edge against edge authority against authority power against power and all the State or Kingdome involved into bloud and confusion So as we must consider things according to their principles not according to their temporary or occasionall advantages Object But you give not enough to the Magistrate Answ Yea more then any He that gives him that which God hath given him gives more then any that pretend to give him the most The pretenders that bid for the Magistrate at this time are 1. They that put him as an help and government in the Church as some viz. they of the Erastian way 2. They that make use on him but as an help to the Church extrinsecally and by way of forraigne assistance as others viz. they of the Presbyteriall way 3. They that give him power over body goods over all morall and civill behaviours of men Professors and Beleevers of what sort soever of what opinion soever as I and the rest of our Brethren do praying with all manner of supplication that under them we may lead a peaceable godly and quiet life Obj. But why dare you not ingage civill Magistracy in Religion over consciences as some others do Answ Yea in all things morally good and evill God hath ingaged them and hath set the Law and Light of nature and conscience in all people to side with them condemning and excusing what they and their Law doth condemne and excuse and thus to beare witnesse with their dominion and power But in things of pure Gospel-mystery and Evangelically good or evill I dare not ingage them whatever others doe over consciences because I give more to their just power and because I dare not draw them into such principles which hath broken more Magistracy then all the other plots and devices of men For things of Worship which are laid up in the pure simple mystery in the Light of the Spirit not of nature as all meer Gospell-mystery is to ingage the Magistrates Sword into these is rather a way to dash them against every mans conscience and so in time to lay in a fatall power or a fatall suffering We know that power which makes Kingdoms soundest in their Dominion and most lasting is the truest and wholsomest and surely that which ingages them lest into that part of the soule the conscience which can lest endure to be oppressed is the safest and most peaceable To my Reverend learned Freind M. LEY One of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster Author of a Book called The Resolution of the New Quere published by Master Saltmarsh SIR I Shall give you a publike account according to your publike charge in your leafe concerning me That I intended to make you my Censor for some Papers which I did not publish Page 1. Sir those Papers were an Answer to Master Fullers last Book and the Question about Reformation betwixt him and me being so out of all Question as Master Herle serveth and â—e as I heard being dead made me rather put up my Arrows into their Quiver then shoot them at such a mark For my contending with you in this I hope it is but as that of Paul and Barnabas and Paul and Peter a contention of Brethren not
Pastors I write against but the way There may be a Moses in Pharaohs Court a Ioseph in Poâ—phar's house a Cornelius or devout man though out of the Church a Luther even in Rome till the Lord enlighten So as government and discipline is a Churches right and priviledge not the worlds and Nations priviledges as so and then Where are all your quoted Texts which are applied Surely that of Corinth is the Churches and that of Ezekiel and Proverbs makes not for the discipline of a Church at all Master Ley's Resolution Page 16 17. He makes a comparison betwixt materiall and spirituall buildings as stone and timber should not be clapt together in the one soone in the other 1. Similitudes may illustrate but not prove any thing 2. Conformity betwixt materiall and spirituall things is not to be carried too far 3. In materiall buildings or the Temple there is not only squared stones but peeces and rubbish which have their use not so in the spirituall all things there are homogeneall and square and living stones c. 4. Those that he accounts rough and unsquared are in some conformity though not so polished as others 5. The best stones are not to be taken from the rest to make up a building by themselves as in seperated Congregations 6. Let him shew any such example in the New Testament where when there was a mixture of holy and prophane as in Corinth i Cor. 11. 21. the Apostles gathered out the holy part 7. That of Axes and Hammers hath a mysterious truth in it but not to his purpose viz. That the spirituall building is built of the soft and secret whispers and motions of the spirit Reply To that of the similitudes I fully agree with you they illustrate better then they prove To that of not carrying a conformity betwixt materials and spirituals too high I agree with you in that too yet not so fully for Iesus Christ the great Prophet of the Gospell preached the glory of the Kingdome in materiall comparisons in salt water leven mustard-seed sowers husbandmen vines vineyards c. To that of spirituall buildings which you say are to be made up only of squared living stones I agree with you and here the controversie might be ended If your Temples shall be of living stones the controversie is granted But because I will not seem to mistake you I beleeve the spirituall building you mean and I are not the same here You mean as it appears the invisible spirituall or Church mysticall and yet there all is not so Homogeneall and of the same kind neither The head of the body is both God and man and one member like one star differs from another in glory But we are speaking of the spirituall building or Church here which is the Image of the Church above and as that is of true reall essentially spirituall living stones so the Church below is to consist at least of such as visibly and formally appeare so and therefore the Apostle cals them in his Epistles Saints and called to be Saints And to that of your peeces of Rubbish in the materiall building It is true But what is that to Salomons Temple which my comparison drives up to How much Rubbish can you prove in that type nay square stones pure Cedar gold c. to figure out the Gospell-building or Temple as in Heb. 9. So as your rubbish is only in your owne allusion not in mine To that of your unpolished stones in your Parishes which may fit the Temple now I answer It must be then only such a building as the materiall one you speake on which is made up of rubbish and broken peeces and if that be according to Christs patern let these Scriptures in the margin with many more determine And for their submitting indeed there is a nationall blinde traditionall obedience in them I cannot call it Gospell submission To that of the best stones not to be taken out to make up a building I answer I am sure we are to take in no ill unhewne unpolished and the Scripture cautions and practise are cleare c. then judge you what the stones must be Nor doe we so picke and chuse as if all stones were to be square alike or equally polished that is not in any materiall building Though we would take in no rubbish yet we take in stores differently squared As in the body one member differs from another the eye and hand and foot c. and members lesse honourable 1 Cor. 12. so in the body of the Church every one according to his measure and as every one hath received Nor do we stand so for the first polishing as you pretend You make as if we set up such degrees of perfection as were only the degrees of the invisible or mysticall body when it is meerly in the degrees of visible Gospell-perfection By this you would make the carnall to abhor and the weaker to stumble and be offended as if the doore of our Churches were not open for any such whom you imply were of a temper meerly Spirituall and of a size of our owne not the Scriptures Let the doores of our Churches be as strait as you imply I am sure your doors are set open or rather cast off the hinges but a pure Gospel-entrance is neither too wide nor too narrow We know there is smoaking flax and bruised reeds measures of grace If they can willingly submit to Iesus Christ their Law-giver and walk as members of the body here they may receive polishing and have honour and building up and many other degrees of perfection which the Saints of God obtaine when they are in fellowship with the Father and the Son To that of your challenge that I should shew any such example in the New â—â—stament of taking out the best when there was a mixture of holy and prophane I answer Those were Gospel-Churches gathered by the Word and Spirit into Gospel-fellowship and when you make your Parishes to appeare such Churches then I shall tell you more till then I suspend your challenge The world and an Antichristian Nation are both under Christs fan for gathering them out To that of a mysterious truth you speak on in the Axes and Hammers I agree with you in that and because of the mystery I therefore quoted it And whereas you summe up all the mystery into the soft whisperings and motions of the Spirit you can hardly warrant us or secure us that your interpretation is the whole mind of the Spirit and that very interpretation of yours is part of it the very same I aime at viz. to shew how the Gospel-building is softly gathered and made up by the Ministery of the Word and Spirit and not with Axes and Hammers tools of a compulsive forcing sharp and authoritative nature as c. Master Ley's Resolution Page 17 18 19. For that of his c. whore he makes Christs description of himself c. to be against the establishment
is no better then the first 3. Prove the other Reformed Kingdoms to be Reformed Churches as Churches are taken in the Gospel and their Paterns pure Gospel-paterns which by your owne you acknowledge to be in part prudential or humane as well as Evangelical and Divine and then your reason may have some force in it Till then you see with all you can doe you cannot prove but Christs government was divers years in bringing forth by himself and his Apostles and so by your owne account you ought not to be before them unlesse you assume fuller Revelations of truth then they did Let the Reader judge whether any of these makes for the setting up your government or the taking down my reasons To your last That this Reformation hath proceeded by slow paâ—es and degrees What Would you prove it by its slow proceedings to be Christs Government and therefore to be setled That were a strange kind of reasoning Because Christ proceeded by degrees in giving out the glory of his Kingdom here therefore every thing that proceeds by degrees is Christs Government Here is some kind of Logick indeed as you say but no Scripture as for instance He that saies such a one is a living creature saies truly He that saies such a one is a beast saies he is a living creature Therefore will it follow He that saies such a one is a beast saies truly So He that saies Christs Government proceeded slowly saies truly He that saies your government proceeded slowly saies truly Therefore He that saies your government is Christs government saies truly What have you got now by your Logick Whereas you say in your second Christ gave gifts and qualifications for government I answer If you and your Parishes have such gifts and qualifications as in Ephes 4. 1 Cor. 12. set it up when you please if not what haste Master Ley's Resolution Pag. 26 27. Now to his Rules and Considerations of Prudence The more time saith he for trying spirits the lesse danger to that State c. I answer 1. It is the duty of a State not only to try spirits but to rule them And rather to rule them then to trie them Prov. 29. 15. and the longer they live without the yoke of Discipline the more enormous And for trying all things there is a due proportion of time to be observed Though it hath been the ill hap of our Chureh c. to have the government fluttering on the lime twig at Westminster when it should be on the wing of actuall execution all over the Kingdom 2. He makes it a dangerous matter for the State to involve it selfe into the designes of Ecclesiasticall power But unseasonably applyed to Presbyteriall-government because both Popish and prelaticall power is abjured by it by covenant 3. Whereas he saith There can be no danger in the not too sudden incorporating c. since Moses is not alive c. a new star may arise It is a groundlesse conceit refuted already and for that of Moses c. he bâ—wrayeth his designe to debarre the government for ever and for that of a new star arising it prepares the way for some Barchochebas who pretending to be Jacobs Star mislead the Jews and was called Benchozba the son of a lye Reply You prove against me 1. That people ought to be ruled rather then tried c. 2. That sometime is to be allowed for triall 3. That the government hath been fluttering too long at Westminster 4. That there is no danger to feare the Presbyteriall government which hath abjured Popery c. Dominion by Covenant 5. That some of this is refuted already 6. That my designe is to debarre it for evâ—â— 7. That a new Star is a misleading star To your first I reply It is true in civill government rule there rather then trie But what is that to Church-government or Discipline The rule there is the will of God which is the only rule in government and legislative power in the Church and that is Trie all things before either you rule or be ruled To your second Some time you will allow I see for triall but you ought not to measure and deale out time but by the Standard of the Word and before you call for such quick obedience as you do and as the Apostles did prove your power and truth and conclusions and by such Apostolicall and infallible evidence and then it is our sin if we submit not And let the time you deale out not be like that of States and Armies in their Treaties who are finall and peremptory in the seasons they set You cannot set such time the Spirit breaths when and were it listeth To your third What is that to the present Discipline what the Covenant abjures Covenant and Discipline are two distinct things a Covenant may abjure in word what yet a government may practice indeed Nor is it enough to abjure Popery in grosse but in every part parcell And now having abjured it is not enough to sit down in that satisfaction that we have sworn against Popery but to search out lest we be forsworn in the practice of it Such a duty begins from the time of abjuring and it lies not only upon the State to find out Popery but every one in his own particular is ingaged you and I and every Covenanter and therefore seeing you have ingaged thousands by conscience against Popery and to endeavour c. you are bound to give the same conscience liberty to bring in its result and enquiry else you make it a snare and trouble to Israel and not a Covenant And now I professe here a just and undeniable liberty by Covenant to bring forth all of Popery Prelacy or truth they know To your other Why should ye speak of governments fluttering on a lime-twig at Westminster Sure the State or Parliament may deserve better of any of the Assembly then to be thought their retarders or lâ—me twigs How have they honoured them above their Brethren printing their ingagements to the world before every Sermon calling them into so neere a capacity with themselves though Divines have been unfortunate before and their Predecessours raised in the curtesie and piety of former States and Parliaments into a Law and power above their Brethren which I hope our Brethren will remember and beware of But because I would not wholly interpret you into so dangerous a sense against the State it may be you may call your dissenting Brethren the lime-twig which if you do you are contrary to your own Argument for you argued but lately the slow proceeding into a very warrantable and Scripture-way and will you now marâ—all and defile your Argument with a lime-twig and bewray rather your slow proceeding to have been of constraint then conscience To your other That this is already refuted I say no more but as you have formerly refuted so I have formerly answered To your other That my designe by that of Moses is to
debarre it for over I answer Yea forever would I debarre a government not clear from the Word and not one haire would I debarre a government that had the name of Christ in Scripture-letters engraven upon it pure Gospell-principles and proceedings To your other That a new-star is to prepare for a misguider and your story of Barchochebas upon it it hath more light somnesse then light in it But why should you be so pleasant with my expression of truth by a Star It is the very allegory of the Spirit Christ cals himselfe the morning star the light which springs from above The Spirit is called the day-star arising in our hearts and the Spouse is attired in a crown of twelve stars Nor do I call to any to look for a new created star of truth but an old yet new appearing star to us one of those stars in the Gospell-firmament which the Clouds of Tradition and Ignorance hinder us from seeing And now what of your story But what way is most likely to mislead That which b 〈…〉 you prove and try all things and accordingly follow or that which saith This is the way compell them to come in not only as the Gospell compels in the Parable by a Spirit of power but by a civill power not a power of word only but of State too and so tw-sting the Gospell with the Law and humane authority with divine Master Ley's Resolution pag. 27 28 29. To his other prudent all rule which is That he makes the Civill and Ecclesiasticall power so linked that if there be motions in the one there will be no quietnesse in the other I answer 1. He aimes at the perpetuall prohibition not at a temporall forbearance only He carries it on so as if we must allow him the authority of a Politick Dictator 2. What if they reciprocate interests must the Civill State leave every man or Congregation to be governed Judg. 17.6 3. Because disturbances are communicated therefore the Civill State ought to settle the Ecclesiasticall that it may enjoy its own peace theâ—olleration â—olleration of the Protestants of France Henry the fourth being a Protestant though a revolter and recovering his rights by the arms of Protestants he could do no lesse in humanity then allow them their Religion though now tollerated because the trust est friends to the Crown of France For that of the State being most free where the conscience is least straitned If free in indulgence to all Religions he complies with the Author of The Bloudy Tenet If free from commotions experience in severall Ages and Countries prove the contrary For that of his Parable of the Teares and the Wheat If there must be such mixtures tollerated what warrant have they to pluck the Wheat from the Tares nay Wheat from Wheat in their now gathering Churches Reply You prove against my reason the compliance and nearnesse of the Civill and Ecclesiasticall power occasioning motions in each other 1. By the authority I assume of a Politick Dictator But what doth my assuming prove against the complyaney and motions of the two Powers This is no proofe against the two Powers of Church and State but against use I hope you conceive not they are concentred in me a private Divine as you call me nor would I give any thing out in way or Magistrality but evidence you and I and Assemblies of men are not infallible 2. By my aiming at the perpetuall prohibition But what doth this prove against the compliancy and motions in the two powers This is still against me not against my reason And further because I suggest a reason of not embodying the Civill and Ecclesiasticall Powers too suddenly therefore saith he I aime a 〈…〉 perpetuall prohibition How doth this follow I aime to prohibit it rebus sic stantibus therefore for ever I aime to prohibit it because as yet neither the Discipline appears to be all Christs nor the Parishes fit matter for Churches therefore I prohibit it for ever Is this good reasoning They that do over-desire the enjoying any thing do measure time by eternity and weeks by Ages and take a little deferring for everlasting Why is his Charets saith Siferah's mother so long in comming 3. Because they reciprocate Interests therefore is every Congregation to be left at liberty Yea at liberty in Spiritualls and not as they will but as the Gospell perswades the will Yea and because they reciprocate Interests therefore to be left at liberty say you Rather because they reciprocate Interests to be cautious how they mingle and incorporate Interests too soon And if any just liberty may arise to the people of God from such State-pauses why not such a liberty Should the Churches be ever persecuted and have no rest It was not so under the first Persecution Then had the Churches rest Because say you disturbances are communicated therefore settle the Ecclesiasticall that the civill may enjoy peace But can you secure the Civill from the Ecclesiasticall in peace ought you to have a State-being or a Church-being first Is this good reasoning Because disturbances are communicated therefore order it so that the Civill may be within the Line of communication or of Ecclesiasticall disturbances by clasping and incorporating them together So as it follows better thus Because they reciprocate Interests therefore take heed how you establish because the State cannot but establish a way something of its own in the Ecclesiasticall To that of Henry the fourth's humanity which you presse because the Protestants helpt him by arms I answer Let but the same humanity be copied out by the State here and presse for it here as you do there and we are agreed Surely you have the same and greater ingagements Your Brethren whom you call Schismeticks and Hereticks have not been sparing of Arms and Bloud in the high places of the field and in a Cause more glorious with successe more admirable with courage as gallant And sure they have been found as trusty friends to this State as the Protestants to the State of France You say That State is rather free in indulgence as the Bloudy Tenet then free from commotions c. For the freedome contended for by The bloudy Tenet when I undertake to prove his freedom at large then put us together till when deale fairly I could as easily draw something of yours under the Line of Prelacie but I would not force any mans notions much lesse yours You see of what stamp the Liberty is I contend for And for Commotions let the world judge if all the broyles and combustions kindled not from the Coales on the Alia and from the flame of an Ecclesiasticall Interest such as you contend for For that of the Tares and Wheat c. where you charge us with mixture tollerated or rather with plucking up Wheat from the Tares c. in Church-gathering I answer We tollerate no mixture but in the world where Christ himselfe tollerates as in the same Paâ—able not
in the Church And for our plucking it is not plucking but gathering and calling out Your words are of more violence then the Word will beare that is more properly plucking which is a destructive pulling out a bloudy Separation a plucking of Persecution such a plucking as some contend for and would requite our gathering with plucking and take us all not for a mixture of Tares and Wheat but all for Tares You say we gather out the Wheat it is well you observe that we have Wheat amongst us which some of your Brethren will searce allow us and you very hardly Master Ley's Resolution pag. 29 30 31. His other politike consideration is this Our Parties or dissenting Brethren now together and clasped by Interest c. I answer 1. No clasping in the Camp must loose us to division in the Citie 2. Mr. Saltmarsh in his Politike adviseth to represse factions c. 3. The delay hath occasioned a multiplication of Heresies and Schisms 4. Many disposed to division heighten their spirits to contumacie and contempt To that other of his it is possible while time is given opinions may be sooner at peace I answer 1. Possibility is no pleae against probability nay cleare experience that by the Brethrens amiable carriage they have driven on their designe with a politike activitie and gained more by their adversaries slownesse than the goodnesse of their cause To that of his Fire let alone under wood and so to dye out c. I answer 1. Will fire under drie wood quench it selfe or the setling of a Government be as the Bellows 2. The contrarie is plaine by examples of Anabaptists and other Sectaries in Germany whom Luther at first mediated for with Frederick Duke of Saxony but after he was glad to stir up the Princes and people of Germany for extinguishing a common combustion To that of his c. The contentions of Brethren are like the Bars of a Caestle Prov. 18. 19. I answer 1. This is his seale to his politike Aphorisaâ— But will the bars of a Caestle be taken by letting alone We have not found it so in our wars c. Reply To your first That we must not claspe in the Camp and divide in the city You say well we are to agree or clasp both in Camp and Citie and to divide in neither To your second Mr. Saltmarsh in his Politikes I told you before I dare not allow my selfe the priviledge of an Aphorism of light then when it was rather night than day with me as I told you You know Pauls regenerate part or law of his mind quarrelled with the law of his Members so doth mine so Luther Augustine c. To that of delaying occasioning Heresies Whether may not your setling things thus be as great an Heresie as you complaine against Be sparing You may call these Truths which you now call Heresies Paul preached that Doctrine after which before he destroyed To that of many heightning their spirits into contempt Do not aggravate against your Brethren remember your own professed ingenuity in these words I would not excite Authority to needlesse severitie To that of the Brethrens politike advantage on your slow pace and amicable carriage as you say Give not over your amicablenesse for that their policie is no warrant against your dutie and if they be politike blame them in print For my part I hate to see in any too much of man in the businesse of God but if some of the Brethren be politike what is that to the rest who waite for the Spirit in the simplicity of their own But it may be you mistake the advantages and put their encreasing upon Brethrens policie which is the power of the Gospell You know in Christs time many beleeved on him and the people went after him and yet not policie but his power gathered them To that of your fire and drie wood and that your setling a Government would be no bellows Who are the dry wood you meane and what fire and what by the bellows I fit be this that the setling a Government will quench our contentions yea and it may quench more then it ought even something of the Spirit may be quenched by it Persecution may put out many a Candle of the Lords lighting and many a coale kindled from his Altar But take heed there be not more fire in the bellows then in the wood To that of the Anabaptists and Sectaries quenched by Luthers mediation I dare not beleeve your Historian nor take all against them from the Pen of an enemie He that takes the Parliaments battells from an Oxford Pen shall read nothing but Rebellion rather than Religion And me thinks I observe much here in your observation to the contrary We may rather think that Germany is a field of bloud to this day for shedding the bloud of so many consciences for some points of difference And for Luthers mediation against them Look well and tell me how much the Lutheran there have advanced in the Reformation Have they not rather stood like Joshua's Sun where he left them Let England take warning by Germany To that of the Brethrens contentions which are like bars of a Castle and must not then be let alone you say as in our Wars Yea go on take these offended Brethren these Castles in your military way but then let your Warfare be spirituall your weapons not carnall put on the armour of light c. and take them by a Gospel-siege and we are satisfied But it you take them with the power of the Magistrate with swords and staves as they took Christ if you come in this Gospel-Controversie to to take them as the Parliament takes in their Towns and Cities by force of Arms and compulsive Artillery as your instance seems to imply take heed lest you shed more spirituall bloud to that under the Altar that never ceases to cry How long Lord how long Master Ley's Resolution Page 32. To that he saith We have not yet any experience of our new Clergy Answ How can there bee experience of them if there be no government to try them withall Reply So as you will have an hazard run both in State and Church for a new experiment upon the Ministers but sure your Statists will tell you it is not safe trying experiments with State they are too vast bodies for that What thinke you of that Physician that will cast his Patent into a disease to try a cure on him You know the old morall adagie Turpius ejicitur quam non admittitur hospes One is sooner kept out then cast out Master Ley's Resolution Page 32. To that It is not safe trusting a power too far into those hands Answer He need not much feare the government will be so qualified so disposed for the persons that manage it c. Reply These are faire promises It is pitty that government should ever be set up that cannot tell before hand how well it will carry it selfe Oh I
We are not of those that speake evill of dâ—gâ—iâ—ies or despâ—se government unlesse you count your Presbyterie to be that government and dignitie spoken on by the Spirit and that remaines to be proved That which cannot be proved to be a Scripture-government cannot challenge a Scripture-law to defend or secure it You say If the Byas run most towards government it is but as it should be Yea if towards a Scripture-government else it is as it should not be and not as it should be You say The Bishops government 's put down some must be set up and that is Presbytery But there is one set up already a civill Parliament arie government and will you set up another above that or cordinate with that Will you set up one government to rule another or tutour another And must you needs set up as large a Dominion as the eivâ—ll Power hath Must our Presbytery be full as ample as high and supream as our Parliament Will no lesse territory or Kingdom serve it but all England Whole Nations Must Christs government be just as broad and long as the worlds You find not the golden Read for the Temple of that length Now Reader judg which government affects Dominion Which brings in whole Nations under the Scepter of it Poore Scripture-government can be content to sit down in a Village To the Church in thy house saith the Spirit In a City as Corinth and over but a few there the Saints only in fellowship to the Church in Corinth In a Countrey not over a Countrey so the seven Churches in Asia not to the Church of Asia or the Church Asia a Church taking in halfe part of the world Sure if Christ would have had such a Nationall compreliensive Church he could have converted King and Princes first and they should have given up their Scepterâ— and Kingdoms to Jesus Christ in the way of a Presbyterian Nay it ought to have been so Jesus Christ was bound in the way of righteousnesse to have be un the practice and modellâ— to us over whole Kingdoms having not left it in precept in the whole Gospell and we ought either to have had practice or precept to order and command us in what we obey You say If other Truths be set by it is by those that so oppose Government and not by the Presbyteriall I see the Presbytery must be in no fault Happy men that have nothing but Truth on their side You wish I had more caution in my mind and paper and â— shorter Refutation had served Cautions are not amisse both for you and me and I think you had need of more caution of the two by how much more vast and nationall the Government is you manage You that put yokes upon whole Nations in a day had need to have the cautions of a yeers provision laid in before hand And for your Refutation of my paper do not beare witnesse of yourâ—selfe let Truth judge bet wixt us and let the Reader pray for a spirit of discerning to judge both what is Truth and which is Truth that which you or I affirme Nor will I say I have made here a Refutation of yours If I have done well What have I that I have not received And if I have not the Lord enlighten and enable me to refute my selfe Master Ley's Resolution pag. 36 37 38. To that of his that the matteriall Temple was more clearly left and known then the Gospell paterne c. Answer 1. He would not be thought to side with Sanballat and Tobijah and so endeavours to shew some considerable difference 2. If it beâ—toâ— soon now for the Government will he set a time for it when it will be seasonable or will he have it stay till it be a matter all building or till we have inspired Prophets 3. It cannot be of too quick dispatch if we set it up by the dictates of the Holy Ghost in the New Testament nor the determination sudden if after consideration with Scriptures with the best Divines and collation of the exactest paterns after long debates in the Assembly of Divines where the dissenting and liberty to object and lastly received by Parliament 4. By the builders speciall regard hath been had to Jesus Christ for Foundation c. And now by Master Saltmarsh his consent the work may go on c. Reply You say I would not seem to side with Sanballat and Tobljah You say true I would not But every building is not Temple-work And though I would not with knowledge hinder the Temple of the living God yet if another kind of frame were in building I would do my best to hinder and be no Sanballat neither But they are Sanballats not whom man but whom the Lord counts so But surely they hinder more that set up another kind of Temple then Christs then he that advises to look well that all be right and Temple-worke that is set up To the difference I made of the materiall and Gospell-paterns you say nothing and that is the only considerable It may be as you said by me you are best able to deale with the other You say I should set a time then for the setting it up Yea I shall set you a time yet not in mine own authority but Christ's When your Patern is all Gospell and your people all qualified in that Gospellpatern then is my time for setting up and then is Christ's time too Nor would I stay you for a materiall building as you say You know I call you on to the Gospell I am very far from turning you back to the Law I call you on to Christ I would not turn you back to Solomon And for the inspired Prophets you tell me I stay for and would have you stay too Is not that a very Gospell-way to stay for the Spirit 's coming into the servants of the Lord Take heed of denying inspired Disciples You know it is part of the fâ—lâ—illing of the great Prophecie Acts 2. Indeed some of the Prelates many of them being uninspired themselves and having little of the Spirit or none would needs say therefore All inspirations and Spirituall enlightnings c. were ended in the Church because ended in them and because they were so carnall themselves they thought none was Spirituall And you remember how they made Laws even against the Spirit in Prayer I speake thus only to remember you who spoke most against inspiration and the Spirit lest you may let fall some words which may be taken up by some of that way to countenance them in their Invectives Not but that I esteem of you as one inspired your selfe in a measure and having the Spirit of God in you therefore I know the Spirit will be very tender in opposing the Spirit You say you ought to dispatch the Government because you have followed the dictates of the Holy Ghost of the Assembly and Parliament Then let me put one Question Why is it not called Christs Government Why
hath it not a Jus divinum a Divine Right put upon it if all be of the Holy Ghost in it But I would not mistake you you say only that all is by the dictate of the Holy Ghost of the Assembly and Parliament So it is but part then by your own confession of the Holy Ghost the rest is of the Assembly and Parliament You say The builders have had speciall regard to Jesus Christ the Foundation I will not suspect the Counsels and Debates of any of the builders I know the Disciples of Christ were true Disciples though they had not all of the Spirit at one time which they had at another I hope and I pray that the Lord will make up to the builders what of the Spirit he hath not given them that they may both see to build right and see where they have builded wrong and so pull down againe as well as set up And whereas you say The building may go on by Master Saltmarsh his own consent I say your building will go on it seems whether Master Saltmarsh consent or no. Master Ley in his capacity is better able to put it on at this time then Master Saltmarsh is to put it off to another time unlesse the Lord who is above all and hath the mighty even the Princes of the earth to command work for his own glory above all that we can or think Master Ley's Resolution pag. 38 39 40. To the second Objection and Answer of Heresies and Schisms and so they might have done from Iohn's first Sermon he saith 1. Why doth he begin with Iohns first Sermon Were not the Esseans c. Hereticks and Schisma icks See Epiphanius c. 2. He makes Pauls Epistles the terminus ad quem which from John's first Sermon to the last make up Twenty nine yeers After the Epistles he brings in the sending the Spirit c. which was but five yeares after the first Sermon of John Baptist 3. Before the end of the Epistles that Government was not which we find in Scripture and if so the Church-Government was not long suspended 4. Nor would it prejudice our expedition People of that Age could not be so easily gathered as with us they may be 5. What was long in establishing in Primitive times cannot be said to be hastily done now after so many discussions and deliberate resolutions Reply You say first Why begin I for Hereticks and Schismaticks from John's first Sermon I begin there because there began the mystery of the Gospell And yet I shew you that no Government began with that Gospell manifestation by which I made appeare that if Government had been of such morall necessity why was it not given out with the Gospels first giving out Now you prove in a chronologicall discourse the space of time from Johns Sermon to Pauls Epistle to make the time appeare for Government And after you have summed up all the time and periods and find it no two or three yeers work you conclude People of that age could not be so easily gathered as now Nor the long establishing then to be an hasty establishing now And now after all this discourse and ravellings out of time from Johns Sermon c. What have you gained Not that the Government was soon setled Then you have proved much to my advantage and in a clearer and fuller computation then I did the contrary So as you have only been taking some learned paines if you well observe and the Reader well observe you to prove that the Government at first was not suddenly cast into modell nor brought forth in practise which is the very thing I aimed at and truly your pains in it have been more exact then mine and I thank you for it But you say It ought not to be so now nor can it be said to be hastily done now that was done so long ago You say true in that But you know the same Spirit must reveale it that formed it and it formed it at first by degrees and the way of Revelation hath been more year's then the first farming reckon but your Antichristian years as exactly as you have done your first Christian and Primitive yeares and you may be more satisfied So as all both the first Revelation of it from Prophesies and the latter from Antichristianism makes all for the not hastening which I aimed at Indeed if you can as infallibly assure us this forme and modell is the very forme then given out it were very true that you say That it cannot be said to be hastily done now what was done so long agoe viz. If it be that very one which was done so long ago For your exception against me concerning my placing the giving of the Spirit so late if you interpret sense by the strict order of words you will lose many a Scripture truth in the words as you well know Master Ley's Resolution Page 40 41. To that of Heresies c. he saith What if they do not ster up their Patrons against the State c. but they busily poyson the soules of the people and shall they if as Paul Best be suffered to blaspheme and reproach and perturb the publike Peace An Indulgence much like old Elies c. If Truth be not more precious then Peace why doth our Saviour say He came not to send peâ—ce And why do the Fathers contend so against the Arrians about a letter And why we so with the Romish Religion rather then be at peace with them For that of morall transgressions he would have the Magistrates set on Set on By whom We have not such meane thoughts of the Magistrate as to make mention of him in such terms of disparagement And for all his Disciplines regulating men for religious walking there will be worke enough for the Magistrate to bring them under civill tryall for câ—ntumaâ—ie c. Reply You say What If hereâ—ies stir not up they poyson souls If they poyson let the Gospel-antidote be applied then and no other way which the Gospell will not beare noâ— allow there is the sword of the Spirit and weapons not carnall but mighty and spirituall For that of old Elies indulgences which you speak on you are still looking upon Moses though you tell us of Christ Make the Kingdome of Israel and of England the same a Iewish and Christian State the same and then we shall allow you both Elies sin and his sons maintenance by tythes offerings You say Truth is more precious then peace yet there is a peace precious as well as Truth even the Peace of Christ as well as the Truth of Christ But to the businesse You would prove Truth to be precious to the disadvantage of Peace and therefore you bring in the Fathers against the Arrians and us against the Papists and Christ against Peace But what would you prove Would you prove that truth ought to be established against peace and peace to be no way to truth Surely truth and
will have a body sutable pure Not only is the visible body of Christ thus pure but every truth of Christ bears the Image of Christ every truth of his hath something of himself in it who is Truth it self I am the Truth saith Christ every beam of light is light every truth is a sparkle of truth it self Thus we may judge of truth by what of Christ we see in it They who break a Chrystall may see their face in every peâ—â—e and parcell so in every thing of Christ there is an Image of Christ either of his purity or holinesse or love or humility or meeknesse c. The Presbyteriall Government and the Worlds of the same equall Dominion VVHat kind of Church-government is that which will set up it selfe with the Civill and State-government even co-ordinate with it if not to the ruling and tutoring of it which hath as large a Dominion as the other which is as full as ample as high and as supream which no lesse territorie then a Kingdome will serve then a whole Nation Muâ—â— Christs Government be just as large as the worlds which Government affects Dominion which brings in whole Nations under the Scepter of it This or that little one in the Scripture which sits downe sometimes in a house to the Church in thy house sometimes in a City as Corinth and over a few there to the Church in Corinth in a Countrey not over a Countrey to the seven Churches in Asia not to the Church of Asia or the Church Asia a Church a fourth part of the world Sure if this Nationall and comprehensive Church were the patern we should walk by Why did not Christ begin first at Kings and Princes and so bring Nations and Kingdomes and make Churches of them But we see no such thing he begins lower at the base and weake and foolish and few and raises up his Kingdome from the bottome of the world and not from the top or pinacle of Princes Kingdomes and Nations The Nationall and Congregationall Church-covenant both lawfull or both unlawfull HOw can a Church-covenant be unlawfull if the Nationall-covenant be warrantable and why doe any plead against that who are for this A Covenant is condemned in the Congregationall Church and yet commended in the Nationall Now How can a Church-covenant be both true and false Is a great Church-covenant lawfull and a little one unlawfull a Nationall Church-covenant warrantable and a Congregationall unwarrantable But Covenantâ— in their nature were a dispensation more of the Olâ— Testamenâ— strain a Nationall Church had a Covenant to gather them up into their Nationall way of worship and were under the Laws of an externall Pedagogâ—â— and now the spirituall dispensation being come even the Gospell of Iesus Christ there is a fulnesse of spirit let out upon the Saints and people of God which gather them up more closely spiritually and cordally then the power of any former dispeâ—sation could the very Covenant of God himself of which the former were typicall and Propheticall comes in nakedly upon the spirits of his and drawes them in and is a law upon their inward parts sweetly compelling in the consciences with power and yet not with force with compulsion and yet with consent and surely where this Covenant of God hath its kindly and spirituall operation there would need no such externall supplement as before but because of the hardnesse of our hearts it is thus from the beginning it was not so the spirit tyed up thousands together then Let States then have any prudentiall security any designe of sound wisdome to consoraâ—e people together but let the Church only be gathered up by a Law of a more glorious and transcendent nature by the pure Covenant of God himselâ— with the souls of his We receive and give out Truth by parts MEn are to be judged and followed according to the degrees of light they receive and if any have some light that light is not to be used as an advantage to all their other darknesse as if all their darknesse might passe under that one beame of light The light rises upon the Prophets as the Sun upon the Earth it is dawning and morning and noon with them Thus came the Gospell Iohn preached Repentance Iesus Christ Faith and Repentance Iohn came with Water Christ with the Spirit and first in Parables and after in power the Apostles they knew first Christ for Messiah then that he should suffer and die and rise againe and then the Kingdome of God Luther knew first that Indulgences were unwarrantable and after that Popery was Antichristianism and Rome was Babylon and works could not justifie and after conscience was not to be compelled in spirituals Thus we grow from Faith to Faith to the fulnesse of stature in Christ to a perfect man in him growing with the increasings of God The Kingdome of God is like a little leven like a grain of mustard seed So as while we see but things in degrees we are neither to be too sudenly admired by others nor our selves All Covenanters are bound to contribute to Religion as well as State VVHosoever hath Covenanted is bound to assist the Publike to his utmost in every Condition and Calling and Place and Way accordingly from naturall abilities to his relations from one relation to another even to all to that of Christian and Spirituall his Prayers Counsell Notions with Countributions of all sorts Civill Naturall Temporall Spirituall He is bound by Covenant to discover malignity in State in Church enemies to God as well as man endeavours to any thing of Popery and Prelacy under what visage habit form of Words of Doctrine Discipline be it Presbytery or whatever if repugnant to the Word of God as we are perswaded in conscience who have personally Covenanted The breathings and speakings of the Spirit are not to be quenched Every season is for the Lords service in season and out of season Watchman watchman what of the night The Spirit is powred upon sons and daughters Synods of men are not infallible Not because more men more of the Spirit The liberty of the subject is that of soule as well as body and that of soul more deare precious glorious The liberty wherein Christ hath made us free Be not ye then the servants of men in the things of God We are to try Truth and so receive it in its Degrees ENquiries for Truth ought to be according to Scripture-rule and that rule lights us on to the triall of all things and proving spirits and judging between the precious and the vile The water that is mingled with the wien the Tares with the Wheat will require sound tryall lest we make but an exchange of one Error for another The Apostles waited for the Spirit the Bereans searched the Word we are bidden to trie and prove The Prophecies of seducers false Christs Antichrist with lying wonders are as reall cautions given out by the Spirit The examples of former Ages Luther
acknowledge and yet that there is a Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Presbytery which are but Prudentiall and humane or mixed Judicatures according to such a distinction and yet are allowed by them a Power Supreme and coercive to the Divine Right of the Congregationall Presbytery which is the first and immediate subject of the Divine Right of Presbytery as they themselves acknowledge And now whether doe not their owne principles controll that pretended Divine Right they plead for and set up a Presbytery of Charity and Prudence over the Presbytery in the particular Congregation which they say is only of Divine Right 4. How can that Presbytery whose constitution is so questionable challenge such a Divine Right As first their Presbyters or first constituting Principles are ordained by a questionable power viz. that of Bishops Their Ruling-Elders by a power as questionable viz. by a Rule or Ordinance of Parliament prudentiall for triall for election because of the generall corruption in this Kingdome both in Ministers and people not by that very Apostolicall Scripture-Rule or Institution of Jesus Christ Their Congregations Parishionall and of politick constitution not Congregationall according to Scripture Their way of constituting this present Presbytery extraordinary by such an Assembly without precept or example for such a Way in the whole New Testament from whence the whole Order of that dispensation ought to be framed and not from the Law or Old Testament or some cases of necessity in the State or Church of Israel by way of Analogy as they say in their Modell to the Parliament The Primitive Elders and Apostles were qualified immediately from the Spirit with gifts proper to such a Ministration which these Presbyters and Elders being not but most by gifts and habits of Art and Science acquired by industry therefore these present Presbyters cannot challenge the same power for Church-Censures without the same Spirit gifting them and anointing them to such a power and administration in the Church but ought to be content meerly with a mixed and partly prudentiall power because of the mixture of their anointing and gifts if they will needs have such a Government set up for Christ's which is not all Christs and most of that all very questionable whether of Christ or no. For all their proofs alleadged from Scripture for the Presbytery by Divine Right or of such Presbyters as were ordained either by Christ himself as the Apostles or by a power from the Apostles or from such who in that power received from the Apostles did ordaine or by a power in the Church or Congregation preceding such a power and accompanying such a power Now this present Presbytery can neither make it selfe appeare to be so purely ordained nor have they the Church or Congregationall power so preceding or accompanying such an Ordination nor is that act of Imposition of hands by which their present Presbyters stand Ministers a meere signe of setting apart or meerly significative but an Institution for gifts to be conferred under the Law it was an empty and bare Rite but under the Gospell it cannot be proved to be such an empty Rite Gospell-signes being but few full and ministeriall to the spirit not meerly significatively-visible as the Institutions and Rites under the Law were So as all being thus questionable still in this present Presbytery how can they so Apostolically challenge such a Divine Right their present constitutions being mixt questionable fallible not one and the same with that primitive pure certaine constitutions and practices Whereas it appears in their Scripture-proofs that both in Jerusalem Ephesus Crete c. the Presbyters and Elders did constitute c. and were most consulted with and advised and therefore they assume the same power and so force out rather then prove out their frame of their present Presbytery from such practices I desire the Brethren to tell us whether the Word of the Gospell was then wholly in Scripture or writing but partly in the Spirit and gifts or teaching and therefore the Eldership of the Churches then were so gifted as to direct constitute advise and from the ministration of gifts in the Eldership c. the Institutions formes and Rules were given out into Scripture or writing which Scripture or written Word is now in the place of that infallible Primitive Eldership and therefore for any Presbytery or Eldership to assume now such a power as the first did they doe not only without warrant substitute themselves to such a Presbytery or Eldership which stood by another anointing or spirit of gifts then themselves doe but they sit downe in the throne with the very Scripture or written Word of God casting a shadow upon the glory and infallibility of that Word by that present authority and power which they now challenge in the interpretation of that Word in their Presbytery because by such a sure and certaine power as Divine Right allowes them they having not a sure and infallible Spirit for Church-censures or the execution of such a power may put forth a certaine sure executive power by an uncertaine unsure and fallible spirit And so how proportionable a power of Divine Right is with a Spirit not purely Divine and how proportionable a power of Church-censures acted by a gift not purely the Spirit 's but rather the Vniversities and Schooles and to joyne such an Eldership so with the infallible Word or Scripture which for want of that primitive or pure anoynting by gifts shall controule the pure Word of Truth by an Interpretation lesse then Truth I leave to all the world of beleevers to judge How such a visible power and Judge as a Nationall Assembly of such a Presbytery can be set up which must judge all the Churches and Congregations of Christ all the Magistracy and State-power in the Kingdom they assuming to themselves a spirit of judging and discerning of sins And whether by this power the Parliament of England shall not fall under the cognisance interpretation and censure of such an Assembly for some sins which they as a Civill power may commit especially dealing in Ecclesiasticall causes And then how far such a Nationall Assembly may manage such crimes to the heightning of their own interest and to the troubling the interest of the State amongst the people I let all judg who know how the same visible Ecclesiasticall Judge is condemned by all the Reformed Kingdoms under another notion viz. of the Antichrist and Pope and Councels And how that Antichristian power and Judge in Ecclesiasticals hath troubled this and other Kingdoms to the imbroiling them by excommunications into Wars and commotions as in our Histories c. and hath at length taken up other weapons then the Word to make good their Ecclesiasticall censures and interests And whether this visible forme of Classicall Provinciall Nationall Oecumenicall be any other then the like Papall Episcopall power differing only in forme in Consistoriall Provinciall Nationall Oecumenicall Counsels and Synods the like spirit
in one and the same Kingdom would be considered when such an Interest growâ—s up from its infancy and first Reformation into a fuller and more perfect man And whether their petitioning of a power from the State to compleat and make them an Eldership and Presbytery doth not imply a power in the State more or rather as fully Ecclesiasticall as their Presbytery for can the State give them any Ecclesiasticall power and have none it selfe so as according to these Principles the State is Ecclesiastical as well as they and so not to be denied the power of Commissioning with them or else t is a meere contradiction to pray for power from those to their Eldership and Presbytery which they say is a Government and Power entirely Ecclesiasticall and compleat in it selfe and so as they either pray for that which they have of their own already or else pray for that from the State which they cannot give them Petition It belongs unto them by Divine Right and by the Will and appointment of Jesus Christ which with the help of superiour Assemblies in cases of appeale or in all administrations therein will prevent through the blessing of God all the feared inconveniences Inference Whence we may infer that the Presbytery and Eldership of a Congregation is of Divine Right c. yet that Divine Right is perfected and compleated by that which is not of as pure Divine Right as it selfe viz. Superiour Assemblies and so becomes neither purely Prudentiall nor Divine but Mixt and so is neither good Divine nor good Humane Right Petition And the Magistrate to whom we professe the Church to be accountable for their proceedings in all their Elderships and Church Assemblies and punishable by him with Civill censures for their miscarriages Inference Whence we may inferre that the Civill Magistrate is neither over nor under the Presbytery and where they place it who can tell by this Petition of theirs for over it the Magistrate is not for they say Commissioners over them are not sufferable and under it they say the Magistrate is not for their Eldership and Presbytery are to be accountable to the Civill power for their miscarriages and how at the same time they should subject their Churches in their mal Administrations to the Magistrates power of judging and yet challenge such an entire sole supreame and Ecclesiasticall Judicature is a mystery becomming the learning of that same Assembly to reveale which first begun it Principles against the Divine Right o◠〈…〉 present Presbytery extracted from the Reasons 1. THey are no such Presbyters of Jesus Christ as the first were because ordained by an Antichristian power of Bishops nor were Bishops true Presbyteres nor those who joyned with them in their Ordination who were made by them nor is there any succession of Ordination but it implies both a Perpetuall Visible Church and a true Church Ministery and Ordinances under Antichrist which all are to be proved by them 2. If there were any such true Church invisible under Antichrist to which they succeed in their Ministery then it must appeare that they succeed that very invisible Church and that that very invisible Church had a true Ministery or Presbytery in it for men may be Saints or good men yet not good Presbyters or Ministerially sent 3. As they now in their practice will not account any for true Presbyters but such who can prove to them their personall Ordination from them so we demand of these Presbyters an account of their personall succession accordingly which personall succession if it be false and interrupted any where in the Line must needs be all false from such a point where the first interruption was made 4. Though Christs promise is enough to ground a perpetuity of Church and Christs presence yet not of his promise made good to such particular men or to their pretended succession 5. They that challenge a Divine Right to the power they act by must act by a gift as Divine and infallible as their right and power and thus did the primitive Presbyters and Elders therefore the gift being but mixt their right or power is but mixt accordingly and not Divine 6. They who were Elders or Presbyters in the first Churches as Ierusalem c. were gifted by a spirit which taught the very infallible Word which is now written or Scripture and so they then did constitute advise counsell in the place of this written Word and all Scripture Formes and Institutions were then in the gift and persons but no such thing can be said of any Eldership or Presbytery of men now 7. They who set up an Eldership or Presbytery now of Divine Right to constitute ordaine counsell c. do joyne to the Word written or infallible Scripture a Power lesse infallibly gifted who by such a Divine Right and Power pretended shall controle the Word of Truth by Interpretations of that Word lesse then Truth which is not consistent with the glory of the Word 8. There is no Eldership or Presbytery in Scripture but either the Churches Act did precede it act it or accompany it by precept or practice which makes the Divine Right of the Presbytery questionable uncertain unsafe because of a contrary Scripture and Precept 9. The Eldership and Presbytery which are brought for instances are questionable first for the Persons who were not such very Presbyters as they would imply but Apostles Evangelists c. or otherwise ordained either by Apostles or Church or otherwise gifted by speciall unction or else an Eldership of eminency not of Office 10. They hold this Divine Right is in the first subject in the Congregationall Presbytery and yet they set up a Classicall Provinciall Nationall Presbytery to compleat and controle this of the Congregationall and how this their Divine Right can be subjected thus to a Right lesse Divine is unreasonable and unscripturall to imagine 11. Suppose such a power as a Nationall Presbytery collected from all parts of the Kingdom every Congregation having an Interest or part there and this Presbytery so Nationall and Collective informed by a Divine Right for judging sins c. shall not this Nationall Presbytery take cognizance of States if sinning Ecclesiastically as well as others and if so what proceeding what cenâ—ures will follow from such a body as universall as the body of that State and of as much Interest in the Kingdom as they and of more interest by how much more Divine a Right they act by and by how much neerer they are seated to the conscience and how Kingdoms have been embroyled by such an Ecclesiasticall Interest Histories will tell ye 12. So as in this straite when Parliament is perswaded of no Divine Right Assembly of a Divine Right and the Dissenting brethren of another Divine Right is not the way this to let the Parliament have their Liberty of Conscience to settle no Divine Right by a power and the Assembly to use their Liberty in a Divine Right with all that
will peaceably joyne with them in the Kingdom under that Power and not to trouble the Magistrate further and the other Brethren as peaceably to enjoy their other Divine Right as the Brethren of the Presbyteriall way theirs and all alike under the same Civill Power and neither of them with it and all other Reformed Kingdomes in unity of the Spirit and love to one another Principles destructive to their present Petition extracted from the Inferences 1. The Presbytery now not so distinct in gifts and office but the Magistrate may rule with them THe Eldership and Presbytery in the primitive Churches had a spirit anointing them to such Administrations but now as the anointing is not so nor is the Office pure peculiar and distinct the Magistrates and Parliament have gifts as spirituall as there are any now in the pretended Presbytery and may therfore as well put forth a Power in their Churches or Congregations as they unlesse their Churches Officers and Gifts were more Christs then they are 2. The Magistrate may better rule then the Eldership or present Presbytery The Magistrate is unquestionably a power of God and the present Presbytery are Officers questionable in their Offices Gifts c. Therefore the Magistrate may more lawfully put forth a Power coercive to sin then they 3. Vniformity in the Word of God is the Vniformity of Churchâ—â— They that presse the Covenant for Vniformity so penally as they do make it a snare of compulsion not in the Word of it but in their Interpretation of that Word unity in the Spirit makes up the want of Uniformity in the Letter Kingdoms are to be no more compelled to Vniformity in Laws Ecclesiasticall then in Civill but may walke together as Beleevers so far as they have attained that clause according to the Word of God makes roome for the severall statures of Christ and measures of light in the Covenant and they that agree in that are truly Vniforme for it is the Vniformity with the Word not with one another but so far as we are all alike in that Word which is the very Vniformity of the Kingdom of Christ 4. The Magistrate as they now make him is Ecclesiasticall as well as they They that ascribe a Power to any to compleat and actuate them in their Ministration do acknowledge that very Power by which they are informed to be in those that so informe and compleat them so as the very Petitioning a State for Power and qualification for Eldership and Presbytery doth imply a Presbyteriall and Ecclesiasticall Power in that State and if so the Magistrate may as well govern in that Church as any ruling Officer they have 5. The present Presbytery in mystery both over and under the Magistrate They that are a Magistracy neither over nor under the Presbytery tell me in what spheare or where rule they for over it they are not Commissioners they say are contrary to the Word and under it they are not for their Presbytery is accountable as they say unto â—â— so as they who are so much in the dark with their Government do with Magistracy they know not what and would place it they know not where The Position being a safer way for the Magistrate then the Erastian and how the Presbyteriall Brethren cannot justly exclude him from ruling with them according to the present constitution both of the pretended Church and Presbytery THat the Magistrate or Parliament cannot be excluded from Government in this present Presbytery as the present Assembly would exclude them because this Kingdom of England is not a Church in Gospell-order but a Kingdom of Beleevers in generall and because their present Presbyters and Elders are no true Presbyters of Jesus Christ according to Gospell-order and till both this Nationall Church and Officers be that very Kingdom of Christ and those very Officers of Christ the Magistrate may as lawfully yea more lawfully rule then any other pretended Officer Minister or Elder amongst them for Magistrates have the whole Kingdome of the world allowed them from God for their place of Government And this Kingdom of England being but a Kingdom or world of Beleevers not a Church they may as they are powers of God rule amongst them Jesus Christ being only King and head in that Church or Kingdom which is more his own and the Magistrates Kings for him in that Kingdom which is the worlds or lesse his own so as the Presbyteriall Brethren cannot exclude the Civil power from governing with them according to the unsound constitution of their Church Ministers and Elders nor till they have proved the truth both of their very Church Ministery and Eldership for all Scripture proofes of Eldership and Presbytery is respective to the true Presbytery and Eldership according to Truth not to every pretended Presbytery and Eldership of the Nations so as till the very Constituting Principles of Presbytery be proved â—â—ue no Scripture either alleadged for Presbytery belongs to them nor any other by which they would exclude the Magistrate as from the Church of Christ Conclusion These few things I have writ to draw forth the strength of others in a thing of this Nature which is of high concernment in the things of Gospell-order as any point now abroad for surely it is not a Vniversity a Cambridge or Oxford a Pulpii and Blacke gowne or Cloake makes one a true Minister of Iesus Christ though these are the best things in the composition of some the Mystery of Iniquity hath deceived the world with a False and Artificiall unction for that true one of the Spirit and the Ministery hath beene so cloathed with Art and Habit that if the Apostles should live again and preach in that plainnesse they came they would be as despised for we wonder after the Wise the Scribe and the Disputer of this World FINIS An End of ONE CONTROVERSIE BEING An Answer or Letter to Master Ley's large last BOOKE called LIGHT FOR SMOKE One of the Assembly at WESTMINSTER Which he writ lately against me In which the Summe of his last Booke which relates to the most materiall Passages in it is gathered up and replied to By Iohn Saltmarsh not revolted as Master Ley saith from a Pastorall Calling but departed from the Antichristian Ministery by Bishops and now a Preacher of the Gospell Isa 5. 20. Woe be to them that put darknesse for light Acts 19. 32. Some therefore cried one thing and some another for the Assembly was confused and the most part knew not wherfore they were come together Ver. 41. And when he had spoken this he dismissed the Assembly LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS 1646. THE Law of Nature giving a man leave to speake fairely in his owne just defence and the Law of Grace requiring him to speake zealously in the defence of Truth I thinke it equall that this answer to Mr Ley should be printed April 15. 1646. John Bachiler The LETTER
only to the old man not to him who after God is created in righteousnesse and true holinesse To the 8. Nor am Ilesse a Disputant in Divinity because against Forms of Art and Logick as you say I may dispute in Christs Schoole though refused in the Schoole of Tyrannus And if you will challenge me in any poynt of Philosophy I shall not refuse you there in Logick or Forms of Art They are Forms only for the wisdom of men not the wisdom of God Nor dare I take my discoveries of Christ from Reason nor seek the glory of him in Forms so much below him and fashion the Creator like to the Creature who is God blessed for ever You and I must die more to vaine Philosophie to the wisdom of the Greek to the rudiments of the world I allow Learning its place any where in the kingdoms of the world but not in the Kingdom of God To the 9. For my being a Vbiquitary as you say in beleefe and your proofe of this from the severall Opinions stated in my Book Can you be so unfaithfull to that Book Can you who would be counted an Orthodox and a Divine thus force and compell those Opinions upon me or not rather upon the Paper only where they were printed Because I stated the Opinions of man am I therfore a man of all those Opinions The best is the world may convince you of this and of my purpose in that And now you are thus unfaithfull in a little I may suspect you for more Are you one of those who pretend to be in the Mount with God and to give Laws for Religion Can we trust you in the more excellent mysteries of the Father while you trifie thus and deceive the Brethren To the 10. For my being an Antinomian If to say we serve not in the oldnesse of the Letter but in the newnesse of the Spirit If to say The Law was given by Moses but grace and truth by Jesus Christ If to say We are not under the Law but under Grace If to say We are delivered from our enemies that we might serve him without fearâ— in holinesse and righteousnesse If to say The Commandement is holy qust and good If to say Shall we sin that Grace may abound God forbid If this be Antinomianism I am one of that sort of Antinomians I know no other for my part though you have filled the world with a noise if this be Heresie so worship we the God of our Fathers nor have I mis-quoted any but only singled out that truth from many in one leafe before they spoyled it in the next and like Pilate who asking only what truth was would not tarry by it but departed To the 11. And for my unstablenesse If to be sometimes darknesse and now light in the Lord If to put off the old man with the former lusts and to put on the new If to come out of Babylon when the Spirit cals If to adde to faith vertue to vertue patience to patience godliness c. If to grow in the encreasings of God to a fulnesse of stature in Christ If leaving things that are behind and pressing to things that are before be unstablenesse let me be alwaies thus changing till he who can only change our vile bodies fashion me like unto his glorious body To the 12. Nor do I glory I hope in the quick dispatch of what I do but do not you as well over deliberate as I over dispatch and glory in that But are you no better acquainted with the Spirit in the things of God Are we to be ever consulting with flish and bloud did the Disciples and Brethren when they spake the Word of God tugge first amongst so many Schoole-men so many Fathers so many moderne Divines so many Commentators so many old Poets as you do Or rather only with the Word and Spirit and power of Christ and for that of your Poetrie and your Brewer I desire not to shew so much of the old-man or former corruption as to sparkle so lightly with you To the 13. For my Interposing being no delay to the Government as you say Why do you say then in other places I presented you with a former Book against M. Saltmarsh his Remora And again Mr Saltmarshs Quaere to retard the establishment I pray now be friends first with your self before you be too much an enemie to the truth or to me and though I cannot stand in the way of the establishment I am the least in my Fathers house I am but as the fliâ— upon the wheele yet truth is mighty and of that power as it can weigh heavie upon your Chariot-wheels when you would be driving into the red Sea of persecution and pursuing Israel To the 14. Whereas you say you are wished to be better imployed then in writing they are your friends indeed that wish so you cannot be worse imployed I am sure then in speaking ill of your brethren in advancing your selves in Lordino it over the heritage in tryumphing upon the vantage ground of your place and power in supplicating and at the same time judging the Magistrate or in a word intreating them that they may rule not you or your Presbytery but whom you allow them from your Presbytery And for others undertaking me as many as please for I feare not an host nor a multitude of pen-men I see more for us then against us I know this present Presbytery may have many pensioners there are such great livings of hundreds a yeers to spice the Government the silver shrines had many that cried great was Diana in the Ephesians Master Leys Treatise 1. THe subordination of Assemblies is made good by the learned Book of Mr Rutherford against the Congregationall Independency 2. The subordinate Presbyteries are not Churches out of Churches as yours are not in such singularity with free choyce more conveniencies in Parishes more for preservation of Peace more agreeable to the Apostles Acts 15. more authorized by Parliament That tythes are spoken against by those that scruple not at slander or sacriledeg that they usurp upon God and his Ministers that alienate them from his Worship and Service That Old men are more honourable then the Young therefore called Senators Elders Sages that Dreams are more glorious then Visions because of more Communion with God in the sleep then waking and because of many Divine things revealed in dreames and that John was old when he had his vision That it is lawfull to jest at mis-application of Scripture by Gods example in Gen. by Eliahs by others c. That the other Church-Government comes not under such tryals of the Parliament as Presbytery but is set up without their authority That Gospell-patternes are as much in the Letter as the Legall because written That Mr. Prinn Dr. Bastwick Mr Burton Mr Lilburne were cruelly used by the Bishops Mr Lilburne whipped from Fleet-Bridge to Westminster so cruelly
flying away to a Book of Mr Gataker one of the Assembly intituled A Mistake c. and the Book of the namelesse Author called The Plea both writ against me And a very short ANSWER in a word to a Book by another namelesse Author called An After-reckoning with Master Saltmarsh and to Master Edwards his Second Part called Gangrena directed to me Wherein many things of the Spirit are discovered Of Faith and Repentance c. Of the Presbytery And some things are hinted to the undeceiving of people in their present Ministers By John Saltmarsh Preacher of the Gospell Acts 7. 26. Sirs ye are brethren why do ye wrong one to another LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS 1646. Reader IN this Answer to Master Gataker I conceive thou hast a taste of the true Notion both of the sweetnesse and glory of the Gospell Imprimatur May 26. 1646. IOHN BACHILER To the Right Honourable the Lord Maior Aldermen and the Common-Councell of the City of LONDON Right Honourable MAny who call themselves Ministers and Prophets of God accuse us of Heresie and Schism before ye But I hope ye will take notice they are but men as we are and of like passions with us neither Apostles nor Prophets of the first Baptism or gifts of the Spirit Yet if the Priests and Elders or any Oratour as Tertullus accuse Paul to Festus or Agrippa be cannot but answer for himselfe I have but few words to speak to ye Noble Citizens That ye would in that Spirit which is of God judge the Doctrines of Men and single them from Traditions Customes Councels Synods Interests Ye are bid to try the spirits whether they be of God or no. Try whether it be according to God for some Ministers and those not Apostles to call others Hereticks who beleeve not as they beleeve What will become then of the strong and weak Christian of the children fathers and young men Trye whether they ought to preach to ye to suppresse all but themselves since they are not infallible but may erre and where is the Remedy then if they erre Who shall judge the Iudges Try whether this make for unity of spirit to allow no more fellowship nor brotherhood then in Horme and practice And what will they have ye do if Formes should alter For States may change England hath done so Try whether this make for the glory of Christians to persecute or banish as they would have ye all but themselves May they not as well tell ye that God hath made England only for men of the Presbytery or one opinion to live in and worship in And where find they that Trye whether some by their daily Invectives from Presse and Pulpit against Independent's and others bring not in the Popish Designe in another Forme to divide the godly party both Presbyterian and Independent and so to ruine all Try if all such Doctrine as they commonly preach and write to ye resolve not it selfe most into their own interests profits place power And what doth the Scripture and Histories tell ye of that And now I have done praying for ye That ye may be still a free City and not disputed by the miscelany of Logick and Divinity of some into bondage That ye may be still populous and not your streets growing with grasse through any un neighbourly Principle of Persecution which must needs lose ye many and much resort from this famous City under the name of Hereticks not letting such live beside them That ye may be a peaceable City and not raised up and dashed by any breath of men against the other and greater part of your selves the Parliament England hath long enough broken it selfe against its own walls let it now be our strength to sit still and to stand still and see salvation And since the Lord hath let the most of the successe of the Presbytery which is so much desired come thorow the hands of those and that Army whom they have told ye over often were Hereticks let this be but taken notice on by ye what God hath told ye in the successe of that Army and I trust ye will never regard the Messengers by whose hands the Presbytery in a kind came by beating them out of doores Thus rests he Who would rejoyce in your Peace Prosperity and GOSPELL-unity JOHN SALTMARSH REASONS FOR Vnity Peace Love THe Nations and Kingdoms of the world shall bring their glory to Christ and be at peace with all his according to the Prophesies isai 11 6 7 8. Revel 21. 26. Isai 49. 23. And how happy is that Nation or Kingdom which shall be first in this truth and have rather a peace of Prophesie than Policie a peace of God than man How happy shall this Kingdom be to fulfill any of this Prophesie of peace to one another and to the Saints That all Kingdoms and Nations and Princes and People prospered according to their love to Christ and his Pharaoh for Ioseph Ahasuerus for Mordecai Artaxerxes for Nehemiah and the people of the Iews and those Nations have been ever nations of bondage and tyranny to themselves which became so first to the Saints That Ierusalem hath been ever a burdensome stone and a cup of trembling to all that oppressed her and the stone cut out of the Mountaine without hands too mighty for all the Mountaines of the world And the bloud of the Saints where-ever spilled and where ever found in literall or mysticall Babylon never left crying till that very place had bloud given them to drink for in her was found the bloud of the Prophets That the true Peace indeed is more spirituall and comprehensive then men usually think it and takes in severall natures nations people languages of every tongue and kindred so severall spirits consciences judgements opinions not a Peace only of such or such an Opinion not a Peace only of such or such a Society of such or such a Body not a Peace of Presbytery only nor Independency only nor Anabaptisme only but a Peace of All so far as that all or many may be one which is that unity of spirit in the bond of peace That true Peace is an enemy to all selfish interest and selfish preservation and selfish unity or selfish peace because that when Uinity Peace Preservation gathers up from that common interest Peace and Unity to which they are appointed by the law of Creation and Institution and becomes only their own and not anothers their own peace their own unity their own preservation they breaking that law of the Spirit and Communion of their first Creation each perishes in their single private and unwarrantable way of saving themselves And the eye saith unto the hand I have no need of thee and the head to the foot I have no need of you That there is no such impossibility of being one under divers Opinions as we are made beleeve no more then there was for
those that eat flesh and those that eat herbs for those that regarded a day and those that regarded it not for those that used milke and those that eat stronger meat for those that were zealous of the Law and those that were more in the Gospell to be one or together or to please one another to edefication Did Paul bid the eaters of flesh call the eaters of herbs hereticks or them that regarded a day the others that regarded it not hereticks or them that were zealous of the Law them that were of the Gospell Heretickes or thus Flesh-eaters and Day-regarders and Legalists as we doe Presbyterians Independents Anabaptists That there is so much in every one of these wherein they appeare to stand in need of one another that the Presbyterian cannot say I have no need of the Independent nor the Independent I have no need of the Presbyterian nor either of them say we have no need of you Anabaptist For the Presbyterian may need the Independent because he is for a purer Communion of Saints then he They both the Anabaptist because he baptizeth Beleevers as the Apostles alwayes did They both the Seekers because none of them have these Ordinances by the first patterne in the Word as by Apostleship and Baptisme of Spirit Nor these the Presbyterians because there may be some gift some power of the Spirit some principle of Administration in them which may help the Body and the Common-wealth or Parliament All these because they are all members of the same State That Love is the more excellent way revealed then either the way of Gifts or Ordinances and therefore no gift or ordinance is to be preferred before love Love neither envies nor vaunts nor behaves it self unseemly but beareth all things and hopeth all things and this is that love which is of God and extends it self as God and comprehends and embraces men not as this man or that man meerely not as a man of this or that opinion but because it is love from the fountaine of infinite love it flowes upon all and hath a kind of peace with all and loves all God is love and therefore just and unjust good and bad are taken into something of him seeing he giveth to all things life and breath and all things and the more this love is amongst men the more they love as God and the more large in love and universall in love That love which is only to one kind is but low narrow and naturall the meer love of creatures as creatures but that love which can love those of other kinds as Presbyterian Anabaptist Independent is not that love of a creature only so as the more we love any that are not as we are the lesse we love as men and the more as God That the first and most glorious and spirituall unity is that of spirit and therefore things that are outward formall and perish with using nor any Ordinance were ever made an hinderance to that unity let not Christians think they cannot be One nor in any communion of spirit till they be like one another in the body first and in the Ordinance first which it may be they never shall be for we see God hath hid outward Ordinances deepest from discovery so as they that find most find but pieces and parcels and one one part and another another part and another another part all finde not all because all should not want one another and we find these things last because there was lesse need how many hundred yeares from Christ and nothing of these yet Christ was knowne and some of the more spirituall glory of Christ and if Christians should not be one till they be like one another how little would the peace be even as little as that unity they contend for and what peace would it be but that of flesh and forme the peace of Ordinances not of Spirit I desire this may be considered that according to the first patterne the Baptisme of the Spirit or Gifts and Ordinances were together never asunder from the Apostles times to the falling away and let there be a Word held out for Ordinances by themselves without the like Gifts or else let us be in more unity of Spirit then we are Christians are truly so alike and so one and the same as they are one in Christ in union and spirit one in God as they partake of the Divine nature of the Image of Christ as they are branches in the same Vine members in the same body so God loves all his as they are of him born of the incorruptible seed being the glory of the second Adam quickned by that life that eternall life God looks not nor loves not as men are Presbyterians or Independents or Anabaptists we commonly love so who begin to love at the outward man before the inward God loves us first as in Christ and loves us because in Christ God loves according to the figure of himself in us and so we should love one another if we will love according to God let Papists love Papists only and Prelates love Prelates only because they are so let us love according to that of spirit we discerne by the same spirit in each according to that of love faith meeknesse patience purity faithfulnesse glory which are the fruits of the Spirit let us love as we judge and that is in spirit as spiritually discerning according to fruits of righteousnesse and holinesse not according to this and that forme which is carnall for as he is not a Jew which is one outwardly no more is he a Christian which is one outwardly circumcision and Christianity is not of the letter but of the spirit so as loving thus we should not thinke nor speake against these and these because they are not Presbyterians as we are because they beleeve not as we beleeve and think not as we think Were it not madnesse to fight because we are not like one another in the face in feature in complection in disposition in a word because we are not alike in body and what were it lesse to sight with one another because we are not alike in the Spirit in soule in judgement in conscience in opinion If the whole body were the eye where were the hearing If the whole were hearing where were the smelling The lesse we endeavour this bond of peace the more we shall take in new fuell to our old fire the more advantage and opportunity will be opened to let in the old remainders of the war amongst us which shall be as a train of powder to kindle us into new contentions and thus new divisions will spring out from the ashes of the old and those whom we conquer one day will be conquerors amongst us another day and we shall not know them from some of our selves and all our victories and conquests will be but the enemies design of recruiting our misery they whom we subdue finding the veine of enmity running
repent or be sorry for sinne c. be humble c. if they preach them as Christ and the Apostles did as graces flowing from him and out of his fulnesse and not as springings of their owne and waters from their fountaines as if the teachers like Moses would make men beleeve they could with such Rods and exhortations smite upon mens hearts as upon rocks and bring waters out of them be they never so hard and stony We agree with you that repentance and sorrow for sinne and humiliation and self-deniall are all to be preached and shall contend with you who preaches them most and clearest but then because Iohn said Repent and Christ said Repent and Peter said Repent are we to examine the Mystery no farther Know we not that the whole Scripture in its fulnesse and integrality reveales the whole truth and must we not looke out and compare Scripture with Scripture spirituall things with spirituall and so finding out truth from the degrees to the glory and fulnesse of it preach it in the same glory and fulnesse as we find it We heare Christ preaching before the Spirit was given Repent and we find when the Spirit was given Christ is said to give Repentance to Israel and forgivenesse of sinnes and shall we not now preach Jesus Christ and Repentance in Jesus Christ the fountaine of repentance the author of repentance and yet preach repentance and repentance thus and repentance in the glory of it more The Apostle in one place saith Beleeve in the Lord Iesus Christ and thou shalt be saved and in another place He is the author and finisher of our Faith Shall we not now preach Iesus Christ first and Iesus Christ the fountaine and Iesus Christ the author of faith and beleeivng and yet preach faith yea and thus preach faith faith in the glory faith in the revelation of it faith from Christ and faith in Christ One Scripture tels us godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation c. And another tels us They shall look on him whom they have peirced and they shall mourne for him c. Shall we not now preach sorrow for sin took from Christ Christ piercing and wounding and melting the heart Christ discovering sin and powring water upon drie ground this is sorrow for sin in the glory of the Gospell One Scripture bids He that will follow me let him deny himselfe and take up his crosse Another saith It is he that worketh in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure and I am able to do all things through Christ that strenghneth me Shall we not now preach Christ our strength and Christ our selfe-deniall and is not this selfe-denyall in the glory of the Gospell So as the difference betwixt us is this Ye preach Christ and the Gospell and the graces of the Spirit in the parts as ye find it we dare not speak the mystery so in peices so in halfe and quarter revealings we see such preaching answers not the fulnesse of the Mystery the riches of the Gospell the glory of the New Testament We find that in the fulnesse of the New Testament Christ is set up as a Prince as a King as a Lord as a crown and glory to every grace and gift nay he is made not only righteousnesse but sanctification too and so we preach him Whereas to preach his riches without him his graces by themselves single and private as repent and beleevs and be humbled and deny your selves ye make the gifts lose much of their glory Christ of his praise and the Gospell of its fulnesse To the Second of your alleadging my Book in such and such pages as another Gospell from Christs I shall print them as you quote them and with them I desire these things to be considered together with the other parts of my Booke and the scope of it which you have detained in unrighteousnesse All these I freely open to the judgment of all who are Spirituall Master Gataker 1 That John Christs and his Apostles Method were all one for matter and manner for they all preached Faith and Repentance and yet we are taxed for these things as Legalists by this Author 2 John and the rest preached life and salvation upon condition of Faith and Repentance and Obedience 3 Where we find Faith only preached it is because we have but the Summaries or heads of their Sermons Answer To the first that I taxe you for preaching Faith and Repentance as the Apostles did and John did as Legalists Nay I tax ye only because ye preach it not as they did according to the full revelation of it in the New Testament but you preach it only as you find it in their Summaries and in the briefe narration of their Doctrine and this you ought not to do if you will preach according to that glorious Analogie of the Gospell and to this I shall only bring in your own words to convince you and so from your own mouth condemn you You say of the Apostles We have but Summaries of them as in Acts 2. 40 and 16. 32. and you knowing this preach only by their first Methods and Summaries not looking to the revelation of the mystery which the Apostle saies is now made manifest And for Iohns manner of preaching his Preaching is to be no more an example to you then his Baptism You know the least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater then he To the second That Faith Repentance and Obedience were conditions of life and salvation Why keep you not to the Forme of wholesome words in Scripture Where doth the Scripture call these conditions of salvation They that are Christs do beleeve and repent and obey but do they beleeve repent and obey that they may be Christs Hath not God chosen us in him predestinated us unto the adoption of children in Jesus Christ But I know you wil say That when the Apostles did beleeve repent and obey it is by consequence as much as a condition and the same with a condition But answer The interpreting the Spirit thus in the letter and in consequence hath much darkned the glory of the Gospell When some of Christs Disciples took his words as you do under a condition Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man c. the words saith he that I speake are Spirit Consider but what stâ—â—â—ts you bring the Gospell into first you make life appearing to be had in the Covenant of Grace as at first in the Covenant of Works Do this and live so beleeve repent obey and live thus runs your Doctrine nor can you with all your distinctions make Faith in this consideration lesse then a worke and so put Salvation upon a condition of works againe Is this Free-Grace But you say Faith is a gift freely given of God and here is Free-grace still But I pray Is this any more Free-Frace respectively to what we do for life then the Covenant of works
had All the Works wrought in us then were freely of God and of free-gift too as Arminius well observes in the point of universall Grace and we wrought only from a gift given Either place Salvation upon a free bottom or else you make the New Covenant but an Old Covenant in new tearmes in stead of Do this and live Beleeve this and live repent and live obey and live And all this is for want of revealing the mystery more fully To your third That where we find Faith only preached and so Salvation made short work that it is because we have but the Summaries I agree with you that we have but the Doctrine of the Apostles as Johns of whom it is said He spake many other things in his exhortation to the people It is true we have much of what they said and we want much yet we have so much as may shew us that according to the work of Salvation in us Faith is the worke which gives most glory to God Abraham believed it is said and gave glory to God they that beleeve give glory and Faith of all the works of the Spirit is the glorious Gospell-worke Christ cals it the worke indeed this is the worke that ye beleeve So as the only reason why we heare so much of Faith in the Gospell is not only and meerely as you insinuate because we have but their Sermons in Summaries and because of another reason of yours drawn from the qualification of some they Preached to that had other gifts and not Faith But because Faith is of all Spirituall encreasings in us the most gloriously working towards Christ Faith goes out and Faith depends and Faith lives in Christ and Faith brings down Christ and Faith opens the riches and Faith beleeves home all strength comfort glory peace promises And Faith hath so much put upon it as becomes a stumbling stone and a rock of offence to many Justification imputation of righteousnesse is put upon Faith Salvation upon Faith as Christs Bloud is put upon the Wine the Cup that we blesse is it not the Communion of the bloud of Christ and Christs body upon the bread the bread that we breake is it not the Communion of the body of Christ and yet neither the Wine nor the Bread is his Bloud or his Body no more then Faith is either Justification or Righteousnesse but such a work as goes out most into him and carries the soule into him who is Righteousnesse and Justification to us The Word were no mystery if it were not thus ordered and things so mingled that the Spirit only could discerne and distinguish Do not the Papists stumble at Works And why because they see not Faith for Works And do not others stumble at Faith And why because they see not Christ for Faith Do not some say that the words world and all and every man makes some stumble at the Election of some and so conclude Redemption for all Master Gataker 1 That Christ and his Apostles never Preached Free-grace without conditions and qualifications on our parts Rom 8. 1. Mat. 5. 8. c. 2 Christs Bloud or Wine is not to be filled out too freely to Dogs and Swine to sturdy Rogues 3 That saying promises belongs to sinners as sinners not as humbled c. and all that received him received him in a sinfull condition is a creeping to Antinomiamsme 4 That God may be provoked to wrath by his Children and David and Peter made their peace with God by repentance 5 That God loves us for his own graces in us God is as man and as a Father is angry and chastiseth his for sin 6 Faith is not a perswasion more or lesse of Christs love all may have that men may beleeve too suddenly as Simon Magus 7 Christ bids us repent as well as beleeve yea first to repent we are to try our Faith 2 Cor. 13. 5. 1 John 4. 1. 8 That he clogâ— men with conditions of taking and receiving as well as we of repenting and obeying 9 The summe of this mans Divinity is Men may be saved whether they repent or no whether they beleeve or no. Answer To the first That Christ and his Apostles never Preached Free-grace without conditions c. on our parts I answer They Preached Faith and Repentance and Obedience But how First in degrees of Revelation the Gospell came not all out at once in its glory They Preached them but how not in parts as we have their Doctrine as you confesse they Preached them but all along in the New Testament there is more of their glory and fulnesse revealed concerning them so as the degrees of revealing the parts or summaries of their Sermons the fuller discovery in the whole New Testament are those things you consider not and they are the things we only consider and so dare not Preach the Gospell so in halfes in parts and quarters as you do and yet will not beleeve you do which is so much worse Ye say ye see and therefore your sin remaineth To the second Christ Bloud is not to be filled out to Rogues and Dogs Take heed you charge not Christ for being with Publicans and Sinners you may upon this ground say he Preached false Doctrine because he said He came not to call the Righteous but Sinners What were all of us in our unregenerate condition sinners or righteous persons unholy or holy men of Faith or unbeliefe or not rather dead intrespasses and sins till quickned with Christ To the third That saying Promises belongs to sinners as sinners and not humbled c. I pray to whom doth all Promises belong first but to Christ and from whom to us but from Christ and what are the Elect and the chosen in him before they are called or beleeve but sinners as sinners Do you look that men should be first whole for the Physitian or Righteous for Pardon of sins or justified for Christ or rather sinners unrighteous ungodly While we were yet sinners Christ dyed for us He dyed for the ungodly Christ is the Physitian the Righteousnesse the Sanctification and makes them beleved that were not beloved and to obtaine mercy that had not obtained mercy and Saints who were Sinners and Spirituall who were Carnall So as we looke at Christ and the Promises comming to men in their sins but those men were beloved of God in Christ who suffered for sins before so as they begin not now to be loved but to be made to love God begins not to be reconciled to them but they begin to be reconciled to him The love of God being shed abroad into their hearts by the Holy Ghost which is now given unto them So as we looking at persons as chosen in Christ and at their sins as borne by Christ on his body on the Tree we see nothing in persons to hinder them from the Gospell and offers of Grace there be they never so sinfull to us or themselves they
are not so to him who hath chosen them nor to him in whom they are chosen And this is the mystery why Christ is offered to Sinners or Rogues or whatsoever you call them they are as touching the Election beloved for the Fathers sake I speak of such to whom Christ gives power to receive him and beleeve on him and become the Sons of God and Christ findes them out in their sins and visits them who sit in the region and shadow of death and them that are darknesse he makes light in the Lord. To your fourth That God may be provoked to wrath by his Children I pray Can God be as the Son of man Is there any variablenesse or shadow of change in him Can he love and not love Doth he hate persons or sins Is he said to chastise as Fathers otherwise then in expressions after the manner of men because of the infirmities of our flesh must we conceive so of God as of one another Can he be provoked for sins done away and abolished Hath Christ taken away all the sin of his Hath he borne all upon his body or no Speakes he of anger otherwise then by way of Allusion and Allegory as a Father c. And is that He is a Father after the fashion of men Or speaks he not in the Old Testament according to the Revelation of himselfe then and in the New Testament of himselfe now only because our infirmity and his own manner of appearing which is not yet so but we may beare him in such expressions and yet not so in such expressions but we may see more of him and his love and the glory of Salvation in other expressions and not make up such a love as you commonly do of benevolence and complacence Did David and Peter as you say make up their peace with God by Repentance Is there any that makes peace but one Jesus Christ who makes peace through the bloud of his Crosse Can Repentance make peace Or Obedience make peace Is there any sacrifice for sin but that which was once offered even he that appeared in the end of the world to put away sin by the sacrifice of himselfe And was not this called by the Apostle One sacrifice for sins for ever Repentance Obedience c. may make way for the peace made already for sin that is in such workings of the Spirit the love of God in the face of Iesus Christ may shine upon the Soule more freely and fully and the more the Spirit abounds in the fruits of it the more joy and peace flows into the Soule and the more the Soule looks Christ in the face so as peace with God is not made but more revealed by the Spirit in obedience and love c. To your fifth That God loves us for his own graces in us I thought he had loved us too in himselfe and from that love given Christ for us and yet loved us in Christ â—op Can any thing without God be a cause of Gods love Doth God love as we love one another from complexions or features without or loves he not rather thus God is love and therefore we are made and Redeemed and Sanctified not because we are Sanctified therefore he loves us We love him because he first loved us he loved us because he loved us and not because we love him not because of any Spirituall complexion or feature in us because of his Image upon us that is but an earnest of his love to us that is only given us because he loved us he loves us from his will not from without for though we are like him yet we are not himselfe and he loves us as in Christ and himselfe Whereas you say God is as man and as a Father I hope you meane not as in himselfe but as in his wayes of speaking and appearing to us and if so we are agreed But your taking things more in the Letter then the Spirit makes your Divinity lesse Divine and your conceptions more like things of men then of God This makes the Gospell so legall and carnall when we rise little higher then the bare Letter or Scripture not the inspiration by which it came all Scripture being given by inspiration To your sixth That Faith is not a persâ—â—sion more or lesse of Gods love and that all may have that I pray mistake not Can all beleeve from the Spirit Can all be more or lesse spiritually perswaded Do I speake of any perswasion of Christs love which is not Spirituall Deceive not your selfe nor your Reader nor wrong not your Author or do I speak of Faith abstracted from all Repentance Obedience c why deale ye thus When you say men may beleeve too suddenly because I presse men to beleeve and you instance in Simon Magus Was he blamed for beleeving too suddenly or for mis-beleeving because he beleeved the gifts of the Holy Ghost were to be bought with money Can any beleeve too soon if some mis-beleeve or beleeve falsly what is that to them that truly beleeve Shall the unbeliefe of some make the Faith of God without effect God forbid Can Christ be too soon a Saviour to us Can the Fountaine be too soon opened for sin Can the riches of Christ be too soon brought home Paul counts it an honour to be first in Christ Salute Andronicus and Iunia who were in Christ before me and the Church in Prâ—scilla's house and Epenetus who were the first fruits of Achaiâ— unto Christ To your seventh That Christ bids us repent as well as beleeve yea first repent Yea but will you take the Doctrine of the Gospell from a part or summary of it as you say and not from the Gospell in its fulnesse and glory and Revelation Will ye gather Doctrines of Truth as Ruth for a while did gleanings here one eare of Corne and there another and not rather go to the full sheafe to Truth in the Harvest and Vintage Will you pluck up Truth by pieces and parcels in Repentance and Obedience and Selfe-dentall and not reveale these as Christ may be most glorified and the Saints most Sanctified and these gifts most Spiritualized and improved Will ye Preach Doctrines as they lie in the Letter or in their Analogie and inference of Truth The Papists Preach Christs very flesh and bloud to be in the Wine And why but because they looke but halfe way to the demonstration of Truth in the Spirit they shut up Christ in one Notion and not in another and so loses the Truth by revealing it in that Forme of words which is too narrow for it and too short of the height and depth and length of it You say We are to try our Faith So say I too if you would not pick and choose in my Book to make me some other thing then you find me But you mean we must try our Faith for assurance as your other words imply and so far I say too but you
will not heare me speak But you would have the best assurance from tryall but so far I say not as you say is that the best Spirituall assurance that is from our own Spirits in part or from Gods alone from our own reasoning or his speaking Can a Spouse argue better the love of her friend from his Tokens and Bracelets or from his owne word and Letter and Seale One of the three that beare witnesse on Earth is the Spirit and in whom after ye believe ye were sealed with that Spirit of promise Can any Inference or Consequence drawn from Faith or Love or Repentance or Obedience in us so assure us as the breathing of Christ himself sealing assuring perswading convincing satisfying I will hear what God the Lord will say for he will speak peace to his Servants A Saint had rather hear that voice then all its own Inferences and Arguments which though they bring something to perswade yet they perswade not so answerably till the voyce speake from that excellent glory To your eighth That I clog men with conditions of receiving as well as you of repenting c. I answer I preach not Receiving as a condition as you do Repenting I Preach Christ the Power and Life and Spirit that both stands and knocks and yet opens the doore to himselfe I Preach not Receiving as a gift or condition given or begun for Christ but Christ working all in the Soul and the Soul working up to Christ by a power from himselfe And if you would Preach Repentance and Obedience as no other preceding or previous dispositions we should agree better in the Pulpit then we do in the Presse To your ninth That the sum of my Divinity is That men may be saved whither they Repent or no or beleeve or no. I answer Should I say to you The sum of your Divinity is this That Faith and Repentance and Obedience are helps with Christ and conditions with Christ to mans Salvation and that Salvation in not free but conditionall the Covenant of Grace is as it were a Covenant of Workes Should I do well in this to upbraib you and those of your way Say not then that I thinke men may be saved that never repent nor believe Why do you thus set up and counterfeit opinions and then engrave our Names upon them Could not I piece up your Book so if I would be unfaithfull as make ye appeare as great an Hereticke as any whom you thus fancy because I preach not Repentance or Faith as you do because I make all these as gifts from Gods love in Christ not as gifts to procure us God or his love or Christ because I make all these the fruits of the Spirit given to such whom Christ hath suffered for to such whom God hath chosen in him because I Preach Faith and Repentance and Obedience in that full Revelation in which they are left as in the New Testament and not in that scaâ—tling of Doctrine as they are meerly and barely revealed in the History of the Gospel or Acts of the Apostles onely where the Doctrine is not so much revealed as the Practise and the Story in Summaries because we Preach thus therefore we are all Antinomians Hereticks men not worthy to live Brethren must ye forbid us to Preach because we follow not with you because we Preach not the Law as ye do nor Faith as ye do nor Repentance as ye do therefore do we not Preach them at all We Preach them all as we are perswaded the New Testament and Spirit will warrant us and as we may make Christ to be the power of all and fulnesse of all as we may exalt him whom God hath exalted at his own right hand And we wish that ye and all that heare us were both almost and altogether as we are except in reproaches CONCLVSION FRom the 29 Page to the last all your Replyes amount not to any thing of substance but of quarrelsome and humorous exceptions and I shall I hope redeem my time better then in making a businesse of things that will neither edify the Writer nor the Reader There are some things you might had you pleased raised up into some Spirituall discourse as that of Works and Signs for assurance c. But you say of your self how becoming such a one as you I leave that you were like an Old Steed which neighs and prances but is past service so as I must take this of your age and infirmity as a fuller Answer or Supplement to what you faile in against me There are two or three things more observable then the rest 1. That you tax me for saying That the markes in Johns Epistles and James are delivered rather as marks for others then our selves to know us by and I affirme it againe not as you say excluding that other of our selves but as I said rather markes for others though for both in their degrees and kindes of manifestation So in James 2. 24. where he saith By Workes a man is Justified not by Faith So in Vers 18. 21. All which set forth Works a signe to others rather then our selves So in 1 John 3. 14. Hereby know we we are passed from death to life because we love the Brethren compared with Ver. 17. 18. shewes That it is a love working abroad in manifestation to the Brethren and yet I exclude not any evidence which the fruits of the Spirit carry in them as in my Book which yet you alleadge to that purpose after you have been quarrelling so long with it pulling my Treatise in pieces to make your selfe worke and then binde it up againe after your owne fashion For your Story of your Lady and your fallacy That she might as well conclude her selfe damned because she was a sinner as one that Christ would save because she was a sinner And durst you thus sport with a poor wounded spirit that perhaps could see little but sin in her selfe to conclude upen Know you not that Christ came to call sinners to save sinners And durst you make use of your Logick to cast such a mist upon the promises to sinners Suppose one should aske you how you gather up your assurance now you are an old man how would you account to us Would you say such a mâ—asure of Faith so much obedience so much love to the Brethren so much Zeale Prayer Repentance and all of unquestionable evidence But if we should go further and question you concerning your failings when you writ in the behalfe of Cards and Dice of the Common-Prayer-Book if we should aske ye of your luxuriarcy in quotations in your Books and Sermons whether all be out of pure zeale no selfishnesse no vain-glory Whether all your Love was without bitternesse to your Brethren of a diverse judgement whom you call Antinomian c. Whether you preached and obeyed all out of love to Iesus Christ and not seeking your own things not making a gaine of
a Kingdom of Israell nor a Church of Israel though too many of you have preached the Old Testament more then the New for what advantage let the Magistrate judge To the Seventeenth That he may in time say as much of justice living upon voyces in Assemblies as of Truth and so to be a Mystery of Iniquity These are but insinuations to the Magistrate and ghosts of Jealousie which you raise And to put an end to such feares when I make Church and State Magistrate and Ministery Gospell-laws and Civill to be both one then challenge me for that opinion But I have learned that Christs Kingdom and the worlds have a severall Policy and that may be a Law in the one which is not to the other And now is it your Inference or my Principle wrongs the Magistrate An Answer in few words to Master Edwards his second Part of the GANGRENA And to the namelesse Author of a Book called An After-reckoning with Master Saltmarsh MAster Edwards the difference betwixt ye both is this You set your name to more then you know as hath been well witnessed and this man dare set his name to nothing You sin without shame and your Partner is ashamed of what he doth Sin is too powerfull in you against Truth because you shew your selfe and Truth is too powerfull for him because he hides himselfe Master Edwards I shall answer you in these few words but first The Lord rebuke thee even the Lord. 1. If the Image of Christ be in any of those you so persecute how can you answer it to Jesus Christ to cast any dirt on the glory of him 2. If God be in any of those you are so much an enemy to how will you answer it to fight against God any thing of God 3. If any of those be the children of the heavenly Father or the little ones of the Gospell It were better that a milstone were hanged about your neck and you cast into the Sea So Christ tels you 4. What is it to sin against the holy Ghost but to hate the Light once known or to blaspheme the works of the Spirit And you once professed to me you had almost been one of those whom you call Hereticks Oh take heed of that sinâ— there is no more Sacrifice for that And how if the works of those you so judge be wrought in the Spirit shall you ever be forgiven in this world or in that to come Read the words and tremble 5. Doth not the Word bid you restore those that are fallen in meeknesse and tell your brother his fault first betwixt you and him And you never yet came to any of them that I could heare of but print proclaime tell stories to the world of all you heare see know Is Christ in this Spirit Is the Gospell in this straine Will this be peace to your soule hereafter 6. Solomon tels us that a man may seem faire in his own tale till his neighbour search out the matter And how dare you then take all things at one hand and not at anothers How dare you have one eare open for complaints and faults and crimes and the other shut against all defence Did ever Justice do this Did you ever call for their accusers face to face Did you ever traverse Testimonies on both sides And dare you judge thus and condemne thus Shall not the Judge of Heaven and Earth make you tremble for this Injustice Shall he not make Inquisition upon your soule for this bloud 7. Is it any other ground or bottome you stand on in this your way of accusing the Brethren but Paul you say named some and the Fathers named some so and Calvin as you told me the other day when I met you And was there ever crime without some Scripture or shadow of the Word Did not Canterbury on the Scaffold preach a Sermon of as much Scripture and Story for what he did as you can for yours if you should ever preach there He thought ye all Hereticks as you do us he thought he might persecute you as you do us and he had a Word from John Baptist for his manner of death and a Word from the Red sea and Israelites for his death and enemies and a Word from Paul for his Changing Laws and Customes and for his crime of Popery he had a Word fâ—â—m them that feared the Romanes would come and take away their Government Thus Satan and Selfe can paint the worst kind of sin Poore soule Is your conscience no better seated then in such aâ—ery apparitious of Scripture and failings of Fathers Do not you heare the Prayers of those soules you wound pleading with God against your sin Are you not in the gall of bitternesse and bond of iniquityâ— Is not your spirit yet flying when none pursues you Are not your dreames of the everlasting burning and of the worme that never dies Have you no gnawings no flashings no lightnings I am afraid of you Your face and complexion shewes a most sadly parched burnt and withered spirit Methought when I called to you the other day in the street and challenged you for your unanswerable Crime against me in the third page of the last Gangrena in setting my name against all the Heresies you reckon which your own soule and the world can witnesse to be none of mine and your own confession to me when I challenged you How were you troubled in spirit and language Your sin was as I thought upon you scourging you checking you as I spoke I told you at parting I hoped we should overcome you by prayer I beleeve we shall pray you either into Repentance or Shame or Judgement â—re we have done with you But Oh might it be Repentance rather till Master Edwards smite upon his thigh and say what have I done For your Anagram upon my name you do but fulfill the Prophesie They shall cast out your name as evill for the Son of mans sake And for your Book of Jeeres and Stories of your Brethren Poore man It will not be long musick in your eares at this rate of sinning For the namelesse Author and his After-reckoning let all such men be doing for me Let them raile revile blaspheme call Hereticks It is enough to me that they write such vanity they dare not own And now let me tell ye both and all such Pensioners to the great accuser of the Brethren Fill up the measure of your iniquity if ye will needs perish whether we will or no. I hope I rest in the bosome of Christ with others of my Brethren raile persecute do your worst I challenge all the powers of hell that set ye on work while Christ is made unto me righteousnesse wisedome sanctification and redemption And I must tell ye further that since any of the light and glory of Christ dawned upon me since first I saw that Morning-Star of righteousnesse any of the brightnesse of the glory in my heart that heart of mine which